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Posted by: Aeroxe.8140

Aeroxe.8140

When I was first thinking why I wanted to make a forum post, I realized that it wasn’t really because of a single issue, but an amalgamation of all the things currently occurring in the pvp scene. I won’t cover everything in one sitting, but hopefully I can address some of the things happening right now in the “competitive scene” without actually really being in it. I’ll just go and type stuff now without really having a clear direction because im lazy.

I remember back in beta days everyone was very hyped and excited because the game, because at it’s core, the game was revolutionary. Nothing held a candle to it. I had uninstalled the game during orientation week in college but returned shortly, realizing how amazing this game was at it’s core and it’s b2p model. I think that’s a sentiment that a lot of people share, which is why we see the endless cycles of people leaving, and then returning sometime later.

It’s pretty clear that anet’s primary audience is the casual player. For almost 4 years now, the game’s potential has yet to be fully realized, but we still have a core group of dedicated players. It’s not really anyone’s fault though, because obviously the game’s primary purpose is to make money, and the most money is made off of casual players. PvE is great though, and the few times I do find myself fighting against mordremoth I can very much see the appeal. Maybe it’s a sense of nostalgia from earlier days, but who knows.

But that core of players is really waning, especially as we see players that are really just here for the competitive scene rather than the game take flight since the proleagues are over. It’s pretty clear when I log in and check my friends list or spvp mist initiative who is really in it for the game, and who isn’t. But motivation doesn’t really matter because we just need more people playing the game. People also may be on vacation or dealing with real life stuff too so I can’t make too many judgements.

But is motivation a factor? Players who are generally in it for the competition have arguably less devotion to the game, and less care to the game in general. They seek respect and pocket change, but again who knows when this is all a big generalization.

Also on that topic, I am very ambivalent towards proleagues because yes, more tournament and money is nice and all, but it has really separated the once tightly bound community to many cliques and teams who are fighting for a (comparatively) meager prize pool. There is much less attention to making the game better, but that also may just be a result of people being tired from trying to make the game better for 4 years. There’s a much higher level of toxicity in the game and less creativity, as people are simply trying to win more than ever. In the longterm, proleague may be far more detrimental to the game than what we can foresee now.

The purpose of proleagues is also quite clear: it’s a disguised marketing technique that hits two birds with one stone: cater to the pvp crowd while increasing the game’s population.

The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.

So maybe this game’s core isn’t so great as we thought. Yes, the game is complex and has a a high learning curve. So then maybe this game was doomed from the start. Taking a look at other games currently, they are far more easier to understand and play, even if the actual gameplay and satisfaction may not be on the same level.

Overall, just looking back this game has been great but I’m not seeing too much of this game in the future. It’s been a good run, and sadly due to all the circumstances (with good intentions in mind) the potential of this game was so left out. But maybe this is just pessimism and we’ll see some sort of revamp. I would look to Acandis’ post for maybe more insight to how this could be done because I’m not intelligent enough to see the entire picture.

Thief (main), ele, guard
Past member of most teams NA. Retired proleague season 1+2.
http://www.twitch.tv/aeroxe

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Posted by: Acandis.3250

Acandis.3250

… I’m not intelligent enough to see the entire picture…

Chin up Aeroxe! You’re plenty intelligent.
——————————————————————————

Yea so, this is actually an issue that’s plagued the game since very soon after release.

Many teams that played in Beta or as the game came out soon realized that the core infrastructure of a competitive game just wasn’t in place. They quit, and most never even tried to come back. A few of them come back every now and then, but none of them stick around for that long.

As many have said, PvP just isn’t that much fun right now. I think the game is plenty fun when you have the opportunity to play it in a competitive setting, but the elements that should make a game fun for the casual crowd, aren’t really there.

Furthermore, there isn’t a clear cut path or progression from casual-hood to competitiveness. This is actually a pretty big issues, but one that I’m not even sure can be addressed properly anymore.

Back in 2013 when the tournament infrastructure was still in its youth, ANet hadn’t yet decided to start throwing money at the game, but the game was fun to play, and fun to watch. Despite the fact that those of us that played back then weren’t all that good at the game, builds were very active, and there weren’t my efficient passive builds in the meta.

Shortly after the first cash tournament, something went wrong and the game started introducing more and more passive play with each coming balance patch. 3 years later, the trend still stands as we see the most commonly played builds in the competitive setting are those with the strongest passives. Quite frankly, this isn’t all that fun to play—or play against—and it certainly isn’t fun to watch.

As a point of fact, the Masters of the Mists tournament with a total prize pool of $500 had nearly 10k concurrent viewers on twitch, while PL struggles to break 3k, with 40 times the prizepool. This should strongly signal that money isn’t the reason so many people played and watched this game, it was just fun!

Active play and counterplay is challenging, rewarding, and fun. This whole play around the passives meta that has been steadily brooding over the years has to stop—and soon—if we want the game to start realizing its potential.

There are other issues to be tackled, but I don’t think any of them compare to this; you can have a perfect competitive infrastructure with an infinite e-sports budget, but if you game isn’t fun to play, not many people will play it.

All that being said, massive props to Grouch, for fighting so hard every day to build the competitive infrastructure we have now. Let’s hope the other departments can do their part

(edited by Acandis.3250)

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

the potential of this game was so left out

was rage talking about this ~10 minutes before on TS.
B2P modell fks over a rewolutionary and genius game design is really saddening.
Maybe it’s ANet mby it’s NCSoft or B2P modell i dont care. Every time i get tilted about faults in design or patches in gw2 it’s not couse these decisions are straight kitten, it’s becouse of the again wasted potential that this game has.

Also on that topic, I am very ambivalent towards proleagues

On topic, i’m pretty sure pro league is going to be shut down after this season. The intrest in watching pvp fall by ~50% or more in the recent 6 months.
Not that surprising after people where forced to watch completely skilless-boring gameplay and HoT pwercreep(still an issue) for months.
I dont want to bash the calss design/balance team but would it be hard to ask for help from people who are actually playing theyr game on a competent level before releasing the bloody patches?

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Posted by: shrek.1046

shrek.1046

The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.

Good post. Its worth noting that Overwatch has just provided some details of its competitive mode and they have taken player feedback into account and it will be a skill based system rather than a tier based system. It will be mmr based (no tiers) and therefore reflect a players skill rather than be progression based. The games producer outright stated that players did not want a system heavily weighted around tiers and progression which only makes the ranked system a grind.

Anet should take note, not only of the system but the way Blizzard are taking player feedback into account and the transparency of communication.

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Posted by: RoRo.8270

RoRo.8270

The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.

Good post. Its worth noting that Overwatch has just provided some details of its competitive mode and they have taken player feedback into account and it will be a skill based system rather than a tier based system. It will be mmr based (no tiers) and therefore reflect a players skill rather than be progression based. The games producer outright stated that players did not want a system heavily weighted around tiers and progression which only makes the ranked system a grind.

Anet should take note, not only of the system but the way Blizzard are taking player feedback into account and the transparency of communication.

Overwatchs main focus is pvp there are no pve modes. gw2 pvp is just a side show at this point.

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.

Good post. Its worth noting that Overwatch has just provided some details of its competitive mode and they have taken player feedback into account and it will be a skill based system rather than a tier based system. It will be mmr based (no tiers) and therefore reflect a players skill rather than be progression based. The games producer outright stated that players did not want a system heavily weighted around tiers and progression which only makes the ranked system a grind.

Anet should take note, not only of the system but the way Blizzard are taking player feedback into account and the transparency of communication.

THATS a no-brainer. Leagues are just a grind/progression system. Overwatch made a good decision here. Gw2 should take notes.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

Myself and my friends used to play GW2 PvP every day at least for a few hours. We did the AG tournaments when we didn’t have schedule conflicts. I would watch the ESL Sunday tournaments most of the time.

Then HoT came and killed it all. The power creep was and still is ridiculous. HoT elites are far too forgiving of mistakes and spam, which allows them to carry most players. Picking the meta build has completely eclipsed skill, and even if everyone is meta, skill is barely noticeable or meaningful.

We mostly skipped season1. Got legendary in season2 after about a month, but quit again due to the terrible state of PvP (matchmaking is awful too). Now we’ve pretty much quit for good.

If ANet nerfs the elite specs to not be brain-dead OP, we’ll consider coming back. I still love the base mechanics of the game, and I’m sure my friends do too. But we have zero faith in ANet ever balancing elite specs.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

Myself and my friends used to play GW2 PvP every day at least for a few hours. We did the AG tournaments when we didn’t have schedule conflicts. I would watch the ESL Sunday tournaments most of the time.

Then HoT came and killed it all. The power creep was and still is ridiculous. HoT elites are far too forgiving of mistakes and spam, which allows them to carry most players. Picking the meta build has completely eclipsed skill, and even if everyone is meta, skill is barely noticeable or meaningful.

We mostly skipped season1. Got legendary in season2 after about a month, but quit again due to the terrible state of PvP (matchmaking is awful too). Now we’ve pretty much quit for good.

If ANet nerfs the elite specs to not be brain-dead OP, we’ll consider coming back. I still love the base mechanics of the game, and I’m sure my friends do too. But we have zero faith in ANet ever balancing elite specs.

summs kitten up. Too bad it matters little what feedback we give on forums.

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Posted by: Mizu Misa.8730

Mizu Misa.8730

… I’m not intelligent enough to see the entire picture…

Shortly after the first cash tournament, something went wrong and the game started introducing more and more passive play with each coming balance patch. 3 years later, the trend still stands as we see the most commonly played builds in the competitive setting are those with the strongest passives. Quite frankly, this isn’t all that fun to play—or play against—and it certainly isn’t fun to watch.

Active play and counterplay is challenging, rewarding, and fun. This whole play around the passives meta that has been steadily brooding over the years has to stop—and soon—if we want the game to start realizing its potential.

Can you elaborate on some of the ability’s/traits/runes etc. that you see as part of this problem? Would be nice for me to get a clearer picture.

Thanks

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

Can you elaborate on some of the ability’s/traits/runes etc. that you see as part of this problem? Would be nice for me to get a clearer picture.

Thanks

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retribution_
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Piercing_Light
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heavy_Light
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Champion
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloody_Roar
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Stand
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Perfectly_Weighted
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmute
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Flask
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Self-Regulating_Defenses
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shared_Anguish
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beastly_Warden
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ancient_Seeds
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protective_Ward
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bounding_Dodger
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Training
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impacting_Disruption
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Shielding
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Ice
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Torrents
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Bastion
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Continuum_Split
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Catches_Up
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Anguish
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Sending
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chill_of_Death
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Nightmare
more?

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Posted by: Euthymias.7984

Euthymias.7984

I dont have a problem with passives beyond how prevalent they are (or in some cases, how potent they are). However, every profession has had some for a long time now – HoT introduced a lot more.

Also:
>Ancient Seeds
You’ve gotta be kidding me. How is this passive? You have to actually CC and strike someone while they’re under the effects of it to trigger the root.

>Beastly Warden
You have to choose when to activate the taunt. What’s passive about this?

>Continuum Split/Shift
You have to destroy your illusions to get the most benefit of this skill. Its not like it just happens on its own :V

>Shared Anguish
I think every profession has their own “1 time Anti CC” effect (Balanced Stance, Shared Anguish, Gale Song, Eye for an Eye, Hunter’s Determination, Reaper’s Protection, ect). I dont see a big deal with this since most have a kitten cooldown and only work on one control skill. All it means is that you;re less likely to get messed up by the start of a constant CC chain if you take that trait over something else that could have been beneficial.

>Chill of Death
Obligatory bonus for striking a target below the threshold. Literally nothing new. Predator’s Onslaught, Swift Termination, and so on also do extra stuff to targets below health thresholds.

I dont see what’s wrong or different about those at the very least. The big catch about a lot of them is that the other options when it comes to competing with passive traits, are often not worth considering over a passive defense imo.

(edited by Euthymias.7984)

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Posted by: Mizu Misa.8730

Mizu Misa.8730

Many of the things Mads listed and Euthymias has pointed out allready are passive procing effects yes, but then you could sum up any effect that is by base attached to weapon skills as “passively proccing”. It isn’t passively if u press the key yourselfes, it’s “further enhancement of ability’s” (e.g. taun on pet f2).

I mean where would you even go without these, if you wanna change something you’ll need a substitte? or would you rather have nothing at all?

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

The way I define passives would be:
Any effect that procs randomly (I.E. not a consistent effect like pet taunt) without an animation before it does so or a large enhancement that doesn’t change gameplay, only adds extra damage/effects. So in essence we are looking at:
-All on crit/on hit sigils
-Every proccing effect when you are struck or when you strike someone else (rune, trait, etc.)
-ALL anti cc traits
-ALL low hp procs
-Impacting disruption
-All Daredevil dodges
-Ancient Seeds
-Chill of death

There are probably more but for the sake of not ranting too long this is what I’m putting out as passives that need to be changed/removed.

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

What you miss:
many of the listed traits offer an unavoidable effect.
You can see it comming yes, you evade the next shadowshot so you don’t get panic striked, but what is it’s use if the next autohit poc’s it anyways couse it’s still off cooldown.
Same goes to chill of death, ancient seeds etc. You dodge one cc then dru lands an instant one and still gets the effect(also 10 sec cd wtf). Most of the on hit sigils or engi burn passive is the same. You evade a key skill to neglect damage, but what you evade matters little, couse any random tickleing attack can proc a brutal effect that demolishes you.

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

I will chime in technically the Daredevil dodges are not Passives, they are dodge replacements, you have to actively use the dodge to benefit from them, they don’t automatically just work.

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

I will chime in technically the Daredevil dodges are not Passives, they are dodge replacements, you have to actively use the dodge to benefit from them, they don’t automatically just work.

noone wrote that they are passives. they are just bypassing counterplay elements of the combat system, therfore badly designed.
Helping hand:

…snap…

There are 2 more HoT(daredev) additions that changed thief roles but according to the devs this was by design and this is not necessarely bad but i want to mention it here couse it is a part of powercreeping the d/p.
This is the evasiveness that comes with Daredevil.
First, the not that bad things are the dodges that are comming with DD where the motto of sword-acro builds before the expansion. You needed both of these to succeed with an evasive-themed build. I welcome D/P in this family couse i support evasion based gameplay over stealth camping \o/. You have to admit though that this traitline offers TOO much dodges. just too much. There is little difference in your evasiveness depending on your main weapon.
The worse part are the “ELITE” dodges. 2 of them are staight up broken on d/p

  1. Dash offers perma swiftness. well yep this is already really good. your mobility is brutal with this trait, well worthy of a grandmaster. The thing is i’d stop this trait right here. but it removes snares with no icd. Worst part is that it removes immob. There is no need for evading abilitys with immob. you dont need to know what applyes immob. you just dodge like you normally would and get away. This renders an incredibly amount of skill from the game. Immob wasn’t thorwn around in the golden days of befor-juny and landing immobs was a way to stop thieves momentum. Getting immob isnt “death”, thief had many cards to play, headshot or blind the incomming burst, switchin to sb->#3 or #5 or both, clensing it with signet, etc. Now you don’t even have to think
  2. Bound. At the pace you can spam evades with DD the damage buff is on you most of the time. 10% damage is the average of what executioner offers, which is a GM trait. If you land 1 damage proc from it to lets say only 1 target every 10sec(natural regen time of a dodge but in reality you can dodge every ~4 sec in permanent successions) for ~3k dmg. In that period of time you deal ~20k damage to that person. Assuming this, the end resoult is that Bound gave you ridiculous sum of ~25% damage boost. I’d stop here in development but Bound makes applying initial #5&leap stealth uninterruptable. Yep that’s bad design couse it leaves no counterplay. So hmm it’s prty kitten strong too.

…snap…

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

I will chime in technically the Daredevil dodges are not Passives, they are dodge replacements, you have to actively use the dodge to benefit from them, they don’t automatically just work.

noone wrote that they are passives. they are just bypassing counterplay elements of the combat system, therfore badly designed.
Helping hand:

…snap…

There are 2 more HoT(daredev) additions that changed thief roles but according to the devs this was by design and this is not necessarely bad but i want to mention it here couse it is a part of powercreeping the d/p.
This is the evasiveness that comes with Daredevil.
First, the not that bad things are the dodges that are comming with DD where the motto of sword-acro builds before the expansion. You needed both of these to succeed with an evasive-themed build. I welcome D/P in this family couse i support evasion based gameplay over stealth camping \o/. You have to admit though that this traitline offers TOO much dodges. just too much. There is little difference in your evasiveness depending on your main weapon.
The worse part are the “ELITE” dodges. 2 of them are staight up broken on d/p

  1. Dash offers perma swiftness. well yep this is already really good. your mobility is brutal with this trait, well worthy of a grandmaster. The thing is i’d stop this trait right here. but it removes snares with no icd. Worst part is that it removes immob. There is no need for evading abilitys with immob. you dont need to know what applyes immob. you just dodge like you normally would and get away. This renders an incredibly amount of skill from the game. Immob wasn’t thorwn around in the golden days of befor-juny and landing immobs was a way to stop thieves momentum. Getting immob isnt “death”, thief had many cards to play, headshot or blind the incomming burst, switchin to sb->#3 or #5 or both, clensing it with signet, etc. Now you don’t even have to think
  2. Bound. At the pace you can spam evades with DD the damage buff is on you most of the time. 10% damage is the average of what executioner offers, which is a GM trait. If you land 1 damage proc from it to lets say only 1 target every 10sec(natural regen time of a dodge but in reality you can dodge every ~4 sec in permanent successions) for ~3k dmg. In that period of time you deal ~20k damage to that person. Assuming this, the end resoult is that Bound gave you ridiculous sum of ~25% damage boost. I’d stop here in development but Bound makes applying initial #5&leap stealth uninterruptable. Yep that’s bad design couse it leaves no counterplay. So hmm it’s prty kitten strong too.

…snap…

Two posts above Ario stated them as Passives that’s what I was referring to, and I wasn’t saying they don’t have broken elements to them.

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Posted by: Mizu Misa.8730

Mizu Misa.8730

You make some nice points Mad Visions. Thanks for clarifying.

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Posted by: Yannir.4132

Yannir.4132

The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.

Good post. Its worth noting that Overwatch has just provided some details of its competitive mode and they have taken player feedback into account and it will be a skill based system rather than a tier based system. It will be mmr based (no tiers) and therefore reflect a players skill rather than be progression based. The games producer outright stated that players did not want a system heavily weighted around tiers and progression which only makes the ranked system a grind.

Anet should take note, not only of the system but the way Blizzard are taking player feedback into account and the transparency of communication.

Which sounds really weird to me, Blizzard used to be king the way they ignored their clients. If they have made a 180-turn on that, I might consider rejoining Blizzards clientlist. Legion calls to me!

Yannir for males. (guard,thief,war,ele)
Sonya for females. (necro,rev,ranger,mes,engi)
All classes lvl 80.

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Posted by: displacedTitan.6897

displacedTitan.6897

Myself and my friends used to play GW2 PvP every day at least for a few hours. We did the AG tournaments when we didn’t have schedule conflicts. I would watch the ESL Sunday tournaments most of the time.

Then HoT came and killed it all. The power creep was and still is ridiculous. HoT elites are far too forgiving of mistakes and spam, which allows them to carry most players. Picking the meta build has completely eclipsed skill, and even if everyone is meta, skill is barely noticeable or meaningful.

We mostly skipped season1. Got legendary in season2 after about a month, but quit again due to the terrible state of PvP (matchmaking is awful too). Now we’ve pretty much quit for good.

If ANet nerfs the elite specs to not be brain-dead OP, we’ll consider coming back. I still love the base mechanics of the game, and I’m sure my friends do too. But we have zero faith in ANet ever balancing elite specs.

100% spot on.

I would love to play pvp in this game again, I used to really enjoy it but HoT and the grind based league system have driven me out of it entirely.

The power difference between the meta elite spec build and every other build a class has is night and day. There is literally no reason to take anything off-meta.

Overwatch launched and after a couple rounds it hit me… this is what a competitive game is supposed to feel like. Short queues, balanced matches (80%+) and a dev team who listens to feedback.

I still play GW2 but I wont touch pvp again with until major changes (aka never).

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Posted by: Ario.8964

Ario.8964

@Blaquefyre,
In some cases they could be considered passives because they promote passive gameplay
Case 1) Lotus training and DB condi dodge spam
Case 2) Bound and vault spam

Outside of those sure you could make the argument that they aren’t passive in which case I’d agree with you so I’ll give that point to you outside of these scenarios.

[Teef] Dragonbrand Thief and Engi main www.twitch.tv/ariodoesgaming and Ario Does Gaming on Youtube!

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Posted by: BlaqueFyre.5678

BlaqueFyre.5678

@Blaquefyre,
In some cases they could be considered passives because they promote passive gameplay
Case 1) Lotus training and DB condi dodge spam
Case 2) Bound and vault spam

Outside of those sure you could make the argument that they aren’t passive in which case I’d agree with you so I’ll give that point to you outside of these scenarios.

Again those aren’t Passives or can be considered as such since they don’t benefit you unless you have player input, a passive is something that has zero player input it just happens in response to another player using a skill on you. Again they are active dodge replacements and not Passives.

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Posted by: JTGuevara.9018

JTGuevara.9018

To the OP, I know how you feel. The game has changed for the worse. The powercreep and elite specs are just NONSENSE. While they’re balanced within themselves, they’re still vastly superior to the original specs. Also, the league is a complete JOKE. It’s a freakin’ reward track to grind for a backpack. There is no competition in this system, it’s nothing but RNG matchmaking lottery grind.

PvP really has changed. I’ve been here since release. PvP was just way more fun back then. You had tournaments, SoloQ, leaderboards, it was just a more fun environment back then, pvp had potential. Yes, there were still balance problems but you could deal with them. From June-Oct 2015 before HoT and after trait changes, the game balance was going in the right direction, then HoT came out and everything just IMPLODED.

We’re 4 years in this game and pvp has moved BACKWARDS.

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Posted by: Ryan.9387

Ryan.9387

For what it’s worth, I agree entirely with what Aeroxe said.

Every single person I have played with regularly in the past no longer cares anymore. Many don’t log in.

Ranger | Elementalist

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Posted by: shrek.1046

shrek.1046

The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.

Good post. Its worth noting that Overwatch has just provided some details of its competitive mode and they have taken player feedback into account and it will be a skill based system rather than a tier based system. It will be mmr based (no tiers) and therefore reflect a players skill rather than be progression based. The games producer outright stated that players did not want a system heavily weighted around tiers and progression which only makes the ranked system a grind.

Anet should take note, not only of the system but the way Blizzard are taking player feedback into account and the transparency of communication.

Which sounds really weird to me, Blizzard used to be king the way they ignored their clients. If they have made a 180-turn on that, I might consider rejoining Blizzards clientlist. Legion calls to me!

Another data point on Blizzards transparency in OW, Jeff Kaplan (the games Director) has just made a post on the Blizzard forums which went into some detail about matchmaking:
http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20745504371#post-3

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Posted by: StickerHappy.8052

StickerHappy.8052

Can you elaborate on some of the ability’s/traits/runes etc. that you see as part of this problem? Would be nice for me to get a clearer picture.

Thanks

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Retribution_
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Piercing_Light
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Heavy_Light
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Eternal_Champion
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bloody_Roar
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Defy_Pain_
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Last_Stand
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Perfectly_Weighted
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Transmute
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hidden_Flask
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Self-Regulating_Defenses
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shared_Anguish
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Beastly_Warden
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ancient_Seeds
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Protective_Ward
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unhindered_Combatant
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bounding_Dodger
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Lotus_Training
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impacting_Disruption
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Shielding
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Soothing_Ice
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Invigorating_Torrents
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elemental_Bastion
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Continuum_Split
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Time_Catches_Up
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirror_of_Anguish
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plague_Sending
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Chill_of_Death
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Nightmare
more?

Just a question, why is beastly warden included when its not even a passive?

Champion Illusionist Champion Hunter Champion Phantom Champion Magus

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

Just a question, why is beastly warden included when its not even a passive?

oh god…. Yes the list i made includes some non-passive traits.
A trait being non passive does not mean that it’s not problematic. Instants are part of the against-mechanics family in this game, they share the same flaws with insta-procs, they allow close to zero amount of counterplay.
The reason they are complayned less than others can be guessed easy. The majority of them are handled by your instaprocs.

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Posted by: Mizu Misa.8730

Mizu Misa.8730

When considering “beastly warden” sure I cannot see it coming can I? it effects you instatnly on f2, I can only counter by immediatly cleansing it… sometimes that helps avoiding the burst of the pet/rapid fire.

How would you design it otherwise if you had the chance Mad?

Obviously we would want some traits, right?

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