Guild Wars 2

Warrior, thief and mesmer are too good currently.

All the other classes are fine.

So lets come up with some ideas how to nerf them in a fair way.

I will edit this with the best ideas in this thread and then we can contribute to the development of the game.

Early consensus
Mesmer
continium split should not work on ultimates.
Blurred frenzy cd increase

Warrior
Skullgrind should do less
Arc divider/whirlwind should do less damage

Thief
Headshot increase cost by 1
PI decrease damage by 15%

Warrior:
Change the blind on mace f1 primal to only happen when flanking.

Thief:
Increase Headshot initiative cost by 1.
Reduce amount of energy gained from Channeled Vigor by 15%.
Add a .3 second aftercast to Death Blossom.

Mesmer:
Reduce Portal range to 2500 from 5000.

I’d like to add however, I dont think these are the classes that need to be heavily nerfed in any way. Mesmer could use a couple changes to not make portal/moa condi chrono THE apex build.

Vicariuz.1605:

Warrior:
Change the blind on mace f1 primal to only happen when flanking.

Thief:
Increase Headshot initiative cost by 1.
Reduce amount of energy gained from Channeled Vigor by 15%.
Add a .3 second aftercast to Death Blossom.

Mesmer:
Reduce Portal range to 2500 from 5000.

I’d like to add however, I dont think these are the classes that need to be heavily nerfed in any way. Mesmer could use a couple changes to not make portal/moa condi chrono THE apex build.

Good ideas. Perhaps better to nerf moa than portal though. Also something needs to be done about the clone spam.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Vicariuz.1605:

Warrior:
Change the blind on mace f1 primal to only happen when flanking.

Thief:
Increase Headshot initiative cost by 1.
Reduce amount of energy gained from Channeled Vigor by 15%.
Add a .3 second aftercast to Death Blossom.

Mesmer:
Reduce Portal range to 2500 from 5000.

I’d like to add however, I dont think these are the classes that need to be heavily nerfed in any way. Mesmer could use a couple changes to not make portal/moa condi chrono THE apex build.

Good ideas. Perhaps better to nerf moa than portal though. Also something needs to be done about the clone spam.

Moa has been nerfed plenty already, instead, buffing the other mesmer elites to compete with Moa would be a better option than that. Clone spam is the class identity, and with the enormous amount of aoe in the game already, a Mesmer has very limited potential in a large teamfight other than Moa and Portal. Reducing the impact of Portal is, in my opinion, the best way to bring it a little more in line with the other classes. If it can’t just port itself and others from 1 point directly to another, it gives the enemy team a chance for counterplay, even if still limited, which is enough.

Please, show me on the doll below where the bad Thief/Mes/War touched you…

As far as mesmer go, I could agree with a reduced range for portals….But other than that, there is not much to nerf again (unless the OP wants to remove mesmer from ranked arenas altogether). As for the other classes, I just don’t see anything that is OP from my point of view because I consider these other classes have very obvious tells of what you need to dodge, block. Perhaps it would be better to state in the OP what is your mained class and why you feel like mesmer, warrior and thief are OP.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Warrior, thief and mesmer are too good currently.

All the other classes are fine.

So lets come up with some ideas how to nerf them in a fair way.

I will edit this with the best ideas in this thread and then we can contribute to the development of the game.

This is such a horrible attitude. Relying on Anet to make up for your struggles isn’t helping anything. If those classes do get nerfed you’ll just move on to complain about different classes.

Instead why don’t we come up with way for you to play better in those match ups. Like:
-being sure to avoid key skills
-watching for their bursts set ups and knowing how to avoid them (kiting).
-Understanding how to use your classes key abilities against those classes you listed
-I’m sure there are a lot of things you or anyone can do in a match to make those classes seem less dominant

Warrior is kinda fine, issue is bzerker to much surviability for the damage it does… needs to sacrifice something.

Thief cant be touched, pretty lame but they need to work this way to fight theaoe spam lameness of gw2 combat overall…

Mesmer, atm is not that hard to play it offensivelly, still alot of classes have builds that are easy to kill targets with their easy way to achieve damage w/o sacrifice, mesmer to get touched alot of classes need to be more balanced first in damage output.

Somebody said in a different thread that they should remove passive damage ticks from confusion and apply more damage on the active part, and AFA I can see that could work IMO. That would effectively be a nerf for both condi warrior and mesmer, which are currently among the best of SoloQ builds.

Vicariuz.1605:

Warrior:
Change the blind on mace f1 primal to only happen when flanking.

Thief:
Increase Headshot initiative cost by 1.
Reduce amount of energy gained from Channeled Vigor by 15%.
Add a .3 second aftercast to Death Blossom.

Mesmer:
Reduce Portal range to 2500 from 5000.

I’d like to add however, I dont think these are the classes that need to be heavily nerfed in any way. Mesmer could use a couple changes to not make portal/moa condi chrono THE apex build.

i like those ideas except for the portal nerf

2500 range makes it almost useless since you can use it for only such few spots and if you dont run into range your portal is wasted

rather make it +30 seconds cooldown for example to nerf it but at least keep it useful when it comes off cooldown

Lordrosicky.5813:

Warrior, thief and mesmer are too good currently.

All the other classes are fine.

So lets come up with some ideas how to nerf them in a fair way.

I will edit this with the best ideas in this thread and then we can contribute to the development of the game.

Nah, they just need to Nerf Reaper, it has far too much mobility for its concept and ability to range and AoE, as well as allowing for it to be Tanky.

My proposed changes are remove the Teleport from Flesh Wurm, for one there is zero reason that killing a Wurm Minion Teleports a Reaper, and two they need to reduce the distance of Reaper shroud 2 Death’s Charge, it should be reduced to a 200 unit charge.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Warrior, thief and mesmer are too good currently.

All the other classes are fine.

So lets come up with some ideas how to nerf them in a fair way.

I will edit this with the best ideas in this thread and then we can contribute to the development of the game.

Nah, they just need to Nerf Reaper, it has far too much mobility for its concept and ability to range and AoE, as well as allowing for it to be Tanky.

My proposed changes are remove the Teleport from Flesh Wurm, for one there is zero reason that killing a Wurm Minion Teleports a Reaper, and two they need to reduce the distance of Reaper shroud 2 Death’s Charge, it should be reduced to a 200 unit charge.

I hope you are being sarcastic.

Just buff DH so it counters these 3 classes even more. :>

Yannir.4132:

Somebody said in a different thread that they should remove passive damage ticks from confusion and apply more damage on the active part, and AFA I can see that could work IMO. That would effectively be a nerf for both condi warrior and mesmer, which are currently among the best of SoloQ builds.

humm the last time i got that affected against confusion really kittened me, i stopped the atack then pulled shelter for the block condi cleanse, the few condis i had got cleaned, but the the blocks were making confusion active trigger by alot since i was being bursted at the same time by the clones, so i dont know if that is a good thing and confusion kept restacking and hurting even more since shelter removes 2 condis with the DH trait, was a 2-3 seconds rekt while still in shelter.

Sadly the amount of confusion being aplyed was a bit to much, that i could not take condis off with shouts+blocks mostly was confusion stackign alot, and if i recall i had trooper runes as well.

So increase the active tick might not be a good solution, it migh be a way to achieve some broken gimmick.

@cranos.5913, a DHnot usign medi trap build is a dead guardian, the other build, burn guard its a oportunist build that kills bad players or players that are almost down…. that is what makes the class in good(decent) spot, viable by damage output gimmick.
DH/Guardian blocks are easy countered.. what makes players sturdy in DH is the healling trap being triggered ive reached close to 14k heal with that :\.

Not everyone wants to be carried…..

so op mains necro, the class which gets kittened the most by warr, thief and mesmer..

Xca.9721:

so op mains necro, the class which gets kittened the most by warr, thief and mesmer..

Warrior is fine for necro though. You can get away from it. But most think warrior is too good. So I included it. Mesmer and thief farm necro. But that is nothing to do with this topic.

ANET needs to come up with a way to nerf people’s ability to create posts just because they go powned by someone in pvp.

Henry, you play necro. You want classes that give necros hard time to get nerfed.

Henry, necros heavily hardcounter scrappers. By your logic, necros are OP. Let’s nerf necros – any suggestions?

Cynz.9437:

Henry, you play necro. You want classes that give necros hard time to get nerfed.

Henry, necros heavily hardcounter scrappers. By your logic, necros are OP. Let’s nerf necros – any suggestions?

Since I play Scrapper sometimes and don’t play Necro I whole heartedly agree with this suggestion. :P haha

Okay, this classes definitely needs some huge nerfs, but since i’m a nice guy, i’ll only suggest small nerfs in order to keep the classes viable.

Warrior :
- endure pain now reduce incoming damage by 5%
- 11645 base hp
- 45sec cd on berzerk mode
- eternal champion now only grants 2sec stability on succesful f1

Mesmer :
- Shield block no longer spawns a phantasm
- Chaos storm radius reduced by 80%
- Main the disillusioned only applies torment on f2
- Confusion on shatter now last for 1.5 sec
- Can’t use shatter or elite in continium split

Thief :
- delete thief

Sincerely a rev main.

Spoichiche.1290:

Okay, this classes definitely needs some huge nerfs, but since i’m a nice guy, i’ll only suggest small nerfs in order to keep the classes viable.

Warrior :
- endure pain now reduce incoming damage by 5%
- 11645 base hp
- 45sec cd on berzerk mode
- eternal champion now only grants 2sec stability on succesful f1

Mesmer :
- Shield block no longer spawns a phantasm
- Chaos storm radius reduced by 80%
- Main the disillusioned only applies torment on f2
- Confusion on shatter now last for 1.5 sec
- Can’t use shatter or elite in continium split

Thief :
- delete thief

Sincerely a rev main.

“Small nerfs”

>>Proceeds to

• Remove iAvenger from the game entirely, removing huge access to alacrity and slow for chrono
• reduce chaos storm to a 48 unit radius. That’s about as big as the players are
• Completely butcher CS
• Remove 3/4 of core mesmer’s usability from MtD, 4/5 of chrono’s usability from that trait
• Halve the duration of confusion from mesmer shatters

Where are the “small nerfs” you said you wanted to see? None of this is small in the slightest. This is beyond ridiculous, and barely even address any of the problems with condi chrono

Warrior:

Berserker Stance: While active, reduces healing regeneration from all sources by x%
Endure Pain: While active, reduce damage output by x%

Thief:

Headshot: Impacting Disruption-Enemies that you interrupt suffer a pulmonary impact, if you do not interrupt an ability your headshot will have an increased cost in initiative.

Mesmer:

Change the active effect on Signet of Illusions.

Pyriall.1683:

Mesmer:

Change the active effect on Signet of Illusions.

Change it to what?

Rock is overpowered, please nerf Rock. Paper is fine.

Yours, scissors.

maddoctor.2738:

Rock is overpowered, please nerf Rock. Paper is fine.

Yours, scissors.

yup that’s why I have this as my signature

Your typical average gamer -
“Buff my main class, nerf everything else. "

maddoctor.2738:

Rock is overpowered, please nerf Rock. Paper is fine.

Yours, scissors.

Why aren’t people making those (picture) for every season with the actuall class-balances?

Xarimath.4518:

Please, show me on the doll below where the bad Thief/Mes/War touched you…

golden! :’D

@Lordrosicky.5813
could you elaborate on how other classes are “fine” compared to the ones you listed?
Sure the ones you listed are one of the best to carry a game if you are mechanically better than the majority of your opponents, but i’d quietly point out you dont worth shlt with them without proper supports and brusiers for medium/large fights in your team.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Warrior, thief and mesmer are too good currently.

All the other classes are fine.

So lets come up with some ideas how to nerf them in a fair way.

I will edit this with the best ideas in this thread and then we can contribute to the development of the game.

ill take you seriously if you post a video of you playing against all of these classes and post your rank .

Yannir.4132:

Somebody said in a different thread that they should remove passive damage ticks from confusion and apply more damage on the active part, and AFA I can see that could work IMO. That would effectively be a nerf for both condi warrior and mesmer, which are currently among the best of SoloQ builds.

The hilarious part is that used to be how confusion worked; it did massive damage on skill activation but only on skill activation, and mesmer didn’t have access to spammable torment on clones, either.

The PvE community whined it prevented condi mesmer from dealing big damage in dungeons on bosses that attack slowly, though, so ANet made it one of the best DoT’s in the game lol.

As far as OP goes, these suggestions are the wrong way to go about a lot of things without first massively nerfing everything else related to HoT. Tbh, only minor tweaks are needed at most to make most of these problems no longer exist, but the massive issues for other classes are much more obvious and require much more attention.

DeceiverX.8361:

Yannir.4132:

Somebody said in a different thread that they should remove passive damage ticks from confusion and apply more damage on the active part, and AFA I can see that could work IMO. That would effectively be a nerf for both condi warrior and mesmer, which are currently among the best of SoloQ builds.

The hilarious part is that used to be how confusion worked; it did massive damage on skill activation but only on skill activation, and mesmer didn’t have access to spammable torment on clones, either.

The PvE community whined it prevented condi mesmer from dealing big damage in dungeons on bosses that attack slowly, though, so ANet made it one of the best DoT’s in the game lol.

As far as OP goes, these suggestions are the wrong way to go about a lot of things without first massively nerfing everything else related to HoT. Tbh, only minor tweaks are needed at most to make most of these problems no longer exist, but the massive issues for other classes are much more obvious and require much more attention.

Confusion and torment are still only mediocre in most PvE scenarios.

OriOri.8724:

DeceiverX.8361:

Yannir.4132:

Somebody said in a different thread that they should remove passive damage ticks from confusion and apply more damage on the active part, and AFA I can see that could work IMO. That would effectively be a nerf for both condi warrior and mesmer, which are currently among the best of SoloQ builds.

The hilarious part is that used to be how confusion worked; it did massive damage on skill activation but only on skill activation, and mesmer didn’t have access to spammable torment on clones, either.

The PvE community whined it prevented condi mesmer from dealing big damage in dungeons on bosses that attack slowly, though, so ANet made it one of the best DoT’s in the game lol.

As far as OP goes, these suggestions are the wrong way to go about a lot of things without first massively nerfing everything else related to HoT. Tbh, only minor tweaks are needed at most to make most of these problems no longer exist, but the massive issues for other classes are much more obvious and require much more attention.

Confusion and torment are still only mediocre in most PvE scenarios.

For dedicated DPS-condi builds, yea, though tick per tick it’s one of the best. Torment is ineffective because bosses don’t move when people stack since it’s only better than bleeding when the target moves.

Which is what everyone with a reasonable head on their shoulders was saying would happen, anyways. The change to make confusion a DoT was honestly just a bad choice.

For PvP

Lordrosicky.5813:

Also something needs to be done about the clone spam.

Give Phantasms 50% damage reduction vs aoe and cleave, and only take 100% damage when focused. Reduce all attacks and condi ticks on Clones to 0 (so they cant be killed, yet can be hit). Then remove clone generating traits such as DE and Illusionary Reversion. Thus the dependency on these silly traits is gone, and all clone generating is time gates to weapon (and utility) skill CD’s. The potentcy of shatters, or the timing thereof, is thus limited to clone generation (or lack thereof), and propper balancing of these skills, and mesmer damage sources can easily be balanced.

Like, duh!

Ross Biddle.2367:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Also something needs to be done about the clone spam.

Give Phantasms 50% damage reduction vs aoe and cleave, and only take 100% damage when focused. Reduce all attacks and condi ticks on Clones to 0 (so they cant be killed, yet can be hit). Then remove clone generating traits such as DE and Illusionary Reversion. Thus the dependency on these silly traits is gone, and all clone generating is time gates to weapon (and utility) skill CD’s. The potentcy of shatters, or the timing thereof, is thus limited to clone generation (or lack thereof), and propper balancing of these skills, and mesmer damage sources can easily be balanced.

Like, duh!

Yes and no. A problem to consider is even dagger AA’s cleave now. And it’s possible to stack a substantial amount of clone-health bonuses which would make them closely-durable to most core ranger pets. There’s no melee non-cleave weapon currently in the game. Further, Chronophantasma would pretty much always keep mesmers locked into the Chronomancer since lower access to clone generation would prioritize double-shatters/clone protection even more than currently.

Actually the only class that could possibly need adjustments is Warrior. I would increase the skill floor on it by adjusting/removing passives.

Mesmers are actually in a decent spot atm and thieves are the farthest from being OP

OMG like we really need people to understand why things need nerfed. If these 3 classes are OP explain these.

I dueled 2 people in the match and i won them both, please some one can we say that there is a L2P issue going on just a tiny bit?

Or maybe you do not know how to play a class as its currently intended, or that you cant team fight, or cant target a player and use the right skills in that moment?

Seriously the amount of times a good engy has MOA me when going for a burst against people in down state in Plat is like wow its nice to see these people and then when im in gold i get to free cast because warriors are so OP ………………………………………………….

Azukas.1426:

Actually the only class that could possibly need adjustments is Warrior. I would increase the skill floor on it by adjusting/removing passives.

Mesmers are actually in a decent spot atm and thieves are the farthest from being OP

Yeah because you see so many warriors from the top echelon players, ohhh wait

Lordrosicky.5813:

All the other classes are fine.

There are skills and traits available across all classes that are negatively impacting the combat in this game. To claim that these belong to just three classes is simply erroneous.

kdaddy.5431:

Azukas.1426:

Actually the only class that could possibly need adjustments is Warrior. I would increase the skill floor on it by adjusting/removing passives.

Mesmers are actually in a decent spot atm and thieves are the farthest from being OP

Yeah because you see so many warriors from the top echelon players, ohhh wait

Raising the skill floor of a class is a good thing, and it honestly rewards players who deserve it. GW2 PvP severely suffers to low skill floor PvP since HoT’s introduction, and it’s time to raise it whenever possible.

Azukas.1426:

kdaddy.5431:

Azukas.1426:

Actually the only class that could possibly need adjustments is Warrior. I would increase the skill floor on it by adjusting/removing passives.

Mesmers are actually in a decent spot atm and thieves are the farthest from being OP

Yeah because you see so many warriors from the top echelon players, ohhh wait

Raising the skill floor of a class is a good thing, and it honestly rewards players who deserve it. GW2 PvP severely suffers to low skill floor PvP since HoT’s introduction, and it’s time to raise it whenever possible.

Im 100% ok with that but warrior had simply small changes made to it to become viable in PvP.

S1 warrior almost unusable, S2 warrior unsuable at high levels of play, S3 great, S4 ok and now its OP becuase of what?

A small nerf to druid and a huge nerf to the OP rev?

No, simply put HOT made a whole bunch of classes OP and people forgot how to play tactically against another player.

Im all for reworking the whole warrior class but Anet only changed its health regeneration on burst skills.

Lowering warriors damage makes it less then DH,rev again and its already lower then necro for DPS builds. Lower its sustain and it gets picked off to easily by mesmers and thieves.

Warrior currently only has 3 weapon sets it can use, longbow/greatsword/ mace shield.

Helseth on his climb from bronze is literally skilled checked the warrior. He was like lets see if he uses his signet? Nope, lets see if he dodges, nope, he actually got made and said what you used beserker stance before coming into the fight.

Unlike thief and DH you have to play warrior a certain way to be effective. Same as mesmers and thieves only have 1 role for a team.

If you want to fix all the classes lets im 100% down for that. Lets fix alot of these bad traits and ineffective skills.

But if we are gonna sit here in a thread talking about nerfing classes because you struggle with it then i say work on your gains bruh and quit taking up mirror space.

Azukas.1426:

kdaddy.5431:

Azukas.1426:

Actually the only class that could possibly need adjustments is Warrior. I would increase the skill floor on it by adjusting/removing passives.

Mesmers are actually in a decent spot atm and thieves are the farthest from being OP

Yeah because you see so many warriors from the top echelon players, ohhh wait

Raising the skill floor of a class is a good thing, and it honestly rewards players who deserve it. GW2 PvP severely suffers to low skill floor PvP since HoT’s introduction, and it’s time to raise it whenever possible.

Yes, it is a good thing. So lets raise the floor on guards and DH first since its the class that needs this treatment the most

Seriously perplexed why people actually have discussions with this poster when his clear and proven bias prevents him from a productive discussion on balance.

Tiefsee.3647:

maddoctor.2738:

Rock is overpowered, please nerf Rock. Paper is fine.

Yours, scissors.

Why aren’t people making those (picture) for every season with the actuall class-balances?

You need to add ninja, bear, and cowboy since there are more than 5 classes xD

MailMail.6534:

Seriously perplexed why people actually have discussions with this poster when his clear and proven bias prevents him from a productive discussion on balance.

I think your pseudo-intelligence caused you to not catch the logical fallacy in your post :*

Warrior is pretty alright, though the cc chain can be toned down a little.

Mesmer still has too much invuln block evade uptime to be benefiting from things like chaos armor aegis spam, healing on shatter.

Thief is just broken at this point. Everything else got its nerf bat except thief, which had consecutive buffs. A lot of ESL players and streamers calling it the most OP class in the game right now.

+1 initiative on headshot. 3 sec ICD on Pulmonary impact, 5 sec ICD on swiftness proc and immobilizing condis on unhindered combatant.

i agree teef op

one time in my life i tri to kill teef but he evadeded all dey and den i dieded from fall damage

gee gee aned

There are counters to certain classes and some might think its op certain classes,and others dont.
But there are a few skill that really need a nerf,and i think we all agree that moa and portal shouldnt work with continuum split, these 2 skill are op and carry the game hard.
I also think skull grinder needs a nerf, this skill does way too much .overal i think warrior is very safe to play cause of their sustain and good dps, they need to shave their sustain a bit.
About thievs i think their dps is ok , but the perma evades need a nerf, its ok to be able to dodge a few extra times, but its not ok to perma evade and on top apply loads of condi while perma evading.

Mesmer doesn’t need nerfing, Warrior doesn’t need nerfing.

If these characters were unequivocally carrying games, I’d say they need nerfs but they don’t so…. they don’t

Anyone else think warr isn’t op at all?

Even though it will sound hypocrite(cause engi main), but well we are in a tr#sh fred anyways.

Reapershroud needs cooldown increase by 5 sec.

just my 2 cents.

I think d/p thf is fine. What needs a nerf is the d/d and vault evade spamming variants. Don’t know how though. I don’t think mesmer needs a nerf. It gets shut down by d/p thf and dh rather easily. What do people think about mesmer that is over performing right now?

As for war, i don’t think it’s op but i also don’t really know what class is supposed to counter it. I would imagine that necros counter warriors but my impression has been that necros hate facing stacked warrior teams, probably because of the cc spam and resistance uptime.