Guild Wars 2

As I have said in other threads the main problem with necro’s is death shroud.

Pretty much every other damage mitigating tool in the game works off a set % base and is balanced by a timer so that it works the same weather your fighting one enemy or a dozen.

Life force & death shroud however must be built up (starts at 0%), decays naturally while in death shroud & decays as you take damage while in death shroud. (it also blocks all self healing while active)

This basically makes it akin to a second health bar. Which can be extremely powerful vs some enemies but gets progressively weaker with each enemy you fight.

What they need to do is

1: Make life force start at a middle point between full & empty (say 30-40%) when you spawn.

2: Make death shroud only reduce damage by a set % while active. (% can be debated and balanced) (Could also be increased by traits with some abilities reducing damage taken further while in use or sharing effects with nearby allies, which could make blood & death magic lines worth using)

2A: However make all heals go through death shroud at a set % (% can be debated and balanced)

2B: Get rid of degradation of life force from damage while in death shroud, make it entirely time based & based on abilities you use while its active. (How fast it degrades via time can be rebalanced)

After this many of the core problems with necromancers are solved.

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

LOLOL don’t ever quote the current leaderboard, ever. My team is one of the top in NA and I even got to top 10 when the leaderboard was quality over quantity, I’ve participated in GO4 cups, mistpedias, tournament of legends, etc. You sir are a joke. If you think im embarrassing myself u have it all wrong.

Also, my win rate is 73% so I have no idea what you’re talking about (and honestly I think 73% is bad, I’ve been kittening around a lot)

I was quoting the old leaderboard in solo queue which is how to judge individual skill. You win rate was 53% and you were ranked 491. Pretty sure if you were as good as you say you are then you would of won more than 53% of your games and would of actually be rated highly.

If you want to prove yourself in a team as a team player then fine. But I don’t think you have done that either. Your team gets trashed by even teams in NA which are not close to the level of the EU top teams and of NA’s 1/2 good teams.

When they offer $50,000 dollar tournaments for solo queue, I will play solo queue, if you want necromancer to be buffed so badly because you’re a terrible necromancer and get rekted by everyone I laugh. If you think I have bad individual skill come duel me, contact me in game, and we can use my server. Also, there are no higher level teams that use power necro except for mine (perhaps abjured if nos continues with power necro).

Just wanted to add in here too, turret engies (and bake in the day, spirit rangers) are the best at solo queue because they can hold a point and carry hardest, does this mean that turret engies are great players? lol ur argument is so funny!

Lastly, if our team is getting rekt so badly, how are we second in go4 points? http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/

Can you come up with a reasonable explanation why the class is so rare in the current meta if it’s as powerful as you claim? Especially since you claim 2 of the most popular classes in the meta are hard countered by Necromancer?

The only actual problem I find with necromancer is the fact that the Blood tree use useless, nothing more.

Atherakhia.4086:

Can you come up with a reasonable explanation why the class is so rare in the current meta if it’s as powerful as you claim? Especially since you claim 2 of the most popular classes in the meta are hard countered by Necromancer?

medi guard was extremely rare until Orang logo won, with the added downstate damage necromancer is in a good spot and I’ve been seeing Many people use it.

Firebird.8324:

The only actual problem I find with necromancer is the fact that the Blood tree use useless, nothing more.

Which according to your posts you have discovered just half an hour ago. This does not exactly add to your credibility..

Firebird.8324:

Atherakhia.4086:

Can you come up with a reasonable explanation why the class is so rare in the current meta if it’s as powerful as you claim? Especially since you claim 2 of the most popular classes in the meta are hard countered by Necromancer?

medi guard was extremely rare until Orang logo won, with the added downstate damage necromancer is in a good spot and I’ve been seeing Many people use it.

Well that’s the problem with anecdotal evidence. Every guard I run into is a medi guard and nearly every game I play has at least one. At the same time, maybe 1 in 5 games has a Necromancer in it. But then again, I mostly play solo in unranked when bored and hardly with any type of regularity.

I’m more looking for your thoughts on why barely any Necromancers showed up at the recent WTS tournament despite your claims that the class is fine and does exceptionally well against Elementalists and Engineers?

Atherakhia.4086:

Firebird.8324:

Atherakhia.4086:

Can you come up with a reasonable explanation why the class is so rare in the current meta if it’s as powerful as you claim? Especially since you claim 2 of the most popular classes in the meta are hard countered by Necromancer?

medi guard was extremely rare until Orang logo won, with the added downstate damage necromancer is in a good spot and I’ve been seeing Many people use it.

Well that’s the problem with anecdotal evidence. Every guard I run into is a medi guard and nearly every game I play has at least one. At the same time, maybe 1 in 5 games has a Necromancer in it. But then again, I mostly play solo in unranked when bored and hardly with any type of regularity.

I’m more looking for your thoughts on why barely any Necromancers showed up at the recent WTS tournament despite your claims that the class is fine and does exceptionally well against Elementalists and Engineers?

My thoughts on why there weren’t many? Had we beaten danking (and it was close, we even beat them the day after in the go4 cup) then both NA teams would have had a necromancer. Our team would have had 2 necromancers. Had The number 1 team from China been able to play, nocturne plays necromancer and there would have been a necro making it so the only team without a necromancer the EU team. So, many necromancers did almost show up. So as you can see the WTS could have been overrun with necromancers had things played out a little differently.

Firebird.8324:

Atherakhia.4086:

Can you come up with a reasonable explanation why the class is so rare in the current meta if it’s as powerful as you claim? Especially since you claim 2 of the most popular classes in the meta are hard countered by Necromancer?

medi guard was extremely rare until Orang logo won, with the added downstate damage necromancer is in a good spot and I’ve been seeing Many people use it.

Medi guards have been around just not using hammer that was rare, downstate traits were a fix something that should have been here since start it’s the only fast thing necros have. Necros are too slow at everything mainly due to DS, condi burst, healing, burst, catching foes, escaping foes… That excuse of second life bar impaired all playstyles, power necro just suffer from it less in some ways, LF itself can decide if you live or get to try to live just by a couple percents,it’s really close to RNG mechancic in effect.

At least thieves start with full initiative and are not useless out of it,looks at utilities,war is not useless without fast building adrenaline looks at everything. They tried to make DS friendly to other specs we ended up with current condi necro and Unholy Sanctuary in Death Magic, Unholy Martyr in Blood Magic oh yeah we have Renewing Blast,Parasitic Contagion and others. Don’t get started on the utilities … I rather have our main defense be condition and cc then DS keep it minimal.

Sagat.3285:

Firebird.8324:

Atherakhia.4086:

Can you come up with a reasonable explanation why the class is so rare in the current meta if it’s as powerful as you claim? Especially since you claim 2 of the most popular classes in the meta are hard countered by Necromancer?

medi guard was extremely rare until Orang logo won, with the added downstate damage necromancer is in a good spot and I’ve been seeing Many people use it.

Medi guards have been around just not using hammer that was rare, downstate traits were a fix something that should have been here since start it’s the only fast thing necros have. Necros are too slow at everything mainly due to DS, condi burst, healing, burst, catching foes, escaping foes… That excuse of second life bar impaired all playstyles, power necro just suffer from it less in some ways, LF itself can decide if you live or get to try to live just by a couple percents,it’s really close to RNG mechancic in effect.

At least thieves start with full initiative and are not useless out of it,looks at utilities,war is not useless without fast building adrenaline looks at everything. They tried to make DS friendly to other specs we ended up with current condi necro and Unholy Sanctuary in Death Magic, Unholy Martyr in Blood Magic oh yeah we have Renewing Blast,Parasitic Contagion and others. Don’t get started on the utilities … I rather have our main defense be condition and cc then DS keep it minimal.

I do agree with you on some points, I realllllllllyyyyyyy believe that necro should start with an amount of DS because a burst at the start of the game will end you.

Personally been rekking with power necro since patch.

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

LOLOL don’t ever quote the current leaderboard, ever. My team is one of the top in NA and I even got to top 10 when the leaderboard was quality over quantity, I’ve participated in GO4 cups, mistpedias, tournament of legends, etc. You sir are a joke. If you think im embarrassing myself u have it all wrong.

Also, my win rate is 73% so I have no idea what you’re talking about (and honestly I think 73% is bad, I’ve been kittening around a lot)

I was quoting the old leaderboard in solo queue which is how to judge individual skill. You win rate was 53% and you were ranked 491. Pretty sure if you were as good as you say you are then you would of won more than 53% of your games and would of actually be rated highly.

If you want to prove yourself in a team as a team player then fine. But I don’t think you have done that either. Your team gets trashed by even teams in NA which are not close to the level of the EU top teams and of NA’s 1/2 good teams.

When they offer $50,000 dollar tournaments for solo queue, I will play solo queue, if you want necromancer to be buffed so badly because you’re a terrible necromancer and get rekted by everyone I laugh. If you think I have bad individual skill come duel me, contact me in game, and we can use my server. Also, there are no higher level teams that use power necro except for mine (perhaps abjured if nos continues with power necro).

Just wanted to add in here too, turret engies (and bake in the day, spirit rangers) are the best at solo queue because they can hold a point and carry hardest, does this mean that turret engies are great players? lol ur argument is so funny!

Lastly, if our team is getting rekt so badly, how are we second in go4 points? http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/

I am not interested in your duelling ability but your total ability as a player. If you were good you would of carried in solo queue. And I said you can prove yourself in team play too. Both are valid. Completely valid. But you don’t prove yourself there either. You never get close to ever winning anything. Turning up each week is admirable though.

I respect your opinion and its valid and fine. but dont come in here and pretend to some uber pro when the facts speak otherwise. it just makes you look lame.

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Rickster.8752:

Firebird.8324:

Gryph.8237:

Firebird have I seen you compete in any tournaments or prove your work with all the world to see? I’m sorry I don’t know who you are nor have I seen any of the many videos you have undoubtedly uploaded for critique by the masses. You must be amazing to have single handedly solved necro shortcomings with the use of warhorn for increased mobility and damage. Wow. Perhaps you can now address our terrible defensive mechs. Please, grace us with you wisdom oh might leader.

http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/ see that second team down? Radioactive, I main power necro on that. (I’ve done a few tournies in my time, ALL on power necro)

Also, for terrible defensive mechanics, FIRST, hit spectral armor, THEN hit deathshroud (combo with locust swarm for extra effect)

ALSO, the downstate damage is a buff and there will be massive changes with the upcoming HOT, necro is not in a dire state, but even if it were Anet has there hands full with HOT and our problems would likely be fixed at the release of HOT

I checked your record as an individual player to see how good you are.

You had a 53% win rate in solo queue (lol) and had a final rank of 491.

Time to quiet down a bit I think before you embarrass yourself further.

Just the facts sir.

P.S. that is on NA which has a much more shallow player base than EU.

LOLOL don’t ever quote the current leaderboard, ever. My team is one of the top in NA and I even got to top 10 when the leaderboard was quality over quantity, I’ve participated in GO4 cups, mistpedias, tournament of legends, etc. You sir are a joke. If you think im embarrassing myself u have it all wrong.

Also, my win rate is 73% so I have no idea what you’re talking about (and honestly I think 73% is bad, I’ve been kittening around a lot)

I was quoting the old leaderboard in solo queue which is how to judge individual skill. You win rate was 53% and you were ranked 491. Pretty sure if you were as good as you say you are then you would of won more than 53% of your games and would of actually be rated highly.

If you want to prove yourself in a team as a team player then fine. But I don’t think you have done that either. Your team gets trashed by even teams in NA which are not close to the level of the EU top teams and of NA’s 1/2 good teams.

When they offer $50,000 dollar tournaments for solo queue, I will play solo queue, if you want necromancer to be buffed so badly because you’re a terrible necromancer and get rekted by everyone I laugh. If you think I have bad individual skill come duel me, contact me in game, and we can use my server. Also, there are no higher level teams that use power necro except for mine (perhaps abjured if nos continues with power necro).

Just wanted to add in here too, turret engies (and bake in the day, spirit rangers) are the best at solo queue because they can hold a point and carry hardest, does this mean that turret engies are great players? lol ur argument is so funny!

Lastly, if our team is getting rekt so badly, how are we second in go4 points? http://toolbox1.tedc.de/go4/go4guildwars2_na/

I am not interested in your duelling ability but your total ability as a player. If you were good you would of carried in solo queue. And I said you can prove yourself in team play too. Both are valid. Completely valid. But you don’t prove yourself there either. You never get close to ever winning anything. Turning up each week is admirable though.

I respect your opinion and its valid and fine. but dont come in here and pretend to some uber pro when the facts speak otherwise. it just makes you look lame.

I’ve never heard of you and don’t care at all, have fun watching us in the tournament today.

I have been playing condi necro since the beginning and I dont remember us having this much of a problem at doing damage until now. What has happened to cause this? I am still figuring that out. Maybe it’s due to some classes receiving better buffs or the change of the meta has shifted so hard that condi necro has no place in it, but as it stands of now, Necromancer has no way of doing anything while being “focused”. Now, the damage on necro is the same, and it can be quite powerful “IF” left alone, however due to every class having better burst and better ways to catch us, we can not output much damage during team fights. Because of this we are having major issues at keeping up with other classes. With playing condi for so long I will talk about some issues ive noticed with it.

One of our major issues is mobility as we have no way to get out of tough situations once focused fired. Every game that I play, I imagine the opposite team calling target on me and having that red arrow over my name. And it’s quite clear that this is the case. During majority of my games I intentionally show up late to the team fight so that they can be distracted, but once I rear my head, they all switch to me. And guess what? After blowing my 2 stun breakers, I am dead. It’s that simple. They pursue me to no end as they know I have nothing else after that. No blocks, no more escapes, little to no life force regeneration, no damage mitigation, just me walking away from my death (Thats if im not immobilized, dazed, stun, feared, chilled, which in most cases I AM..)

Now before someone, *cough*firebird*cough*, comes in and call BS, its true that we have ways to get out through either locust swarm, spectral walk, or worm, but clearly there are some major problem as 2 of those are our utilities with one being on a long cool down unless traited for and the other can simple be killed and must be in range of it to escape. Also not to mention that to use worm, you will first have to cast it. Now, I know some classes who have MUCH better ways of getting away and do not have to slot for it in their utility bars as they usually bring skills that are helpful to the team. However, due to how the necro is built, we are selfish and we need to bring abilities to keep ourselves up because, well if we dont we are as good as dead. The other escape, which I would not even call an escape is locust swarm. All of these are decent but some classes have MUCH better ways at getting out of a fight, and if they do not, they at least have blocks, evades, or ways to mitagate damage.

And this is what bothers me the most about this class as It has been stated that we are suppose to be an attrition class. And quite honestly, I have no problems with that. Fine, Arenanet wants us to walk away from our deaths and all the thousand CC abilities being thrown at us, but the problem comes in where, we have nothing to help combat any of that. Sure we have a lot of health but it does not make a difference in taking less damage, or surviving longer, we just have more health now.

Secondly, as condition necromancer, if you do not have warhorn, soul marks, or spectral skills, your life force regeneration becomes so minimal that we may as well not even consider DS a thing. Most of the passives for life force generation from other abilites are too minimal and makes no difference. And soon as we work so hard to gain it, it is quickly depleted unless we are traited for vital persistence.

Our damage as condition is ok at best and think we could be MUCH better at it. There are many classes such as condi ranger which has a much better ways at stacking bleeds than we do. Their attacks are faster so they apply bleeds a lot better along with their rooting elite which applies bleeds, their crits applies bleeds, and plus more. And before you know it, your bleeding all over. With necromancer, I find myself having to rotate between all of my weapons and skills just to get my damage going. And that only happens if I am left alone, which is rare, otherwise I am running from two thieves or a guardian during the whole game.

Lastly, our death shroud ability seems to have huge issues. I suppose that they want us to play in Death shroud (change of dumbfire to DS?) more but when going into it, I feel more like I am being punished than being rewarded. It becomes so problematic because our life force ticks slowly as we are in it and coupled with having 4+ people hitting on you at the same time, you will not even know Death shroud existed. I think they need to find a way to make Death Shroud more rewarding. I think DS could be our way to mitigate damage but because it degens and rapidly depletes from hits, along with the use of abilities, it just doesn’t seem to make much of a difference. And also to mention that it locks us out of all our escape abilities which we traited so much for and even gave up other utilities just to escape damage.

In the history of MMOs, no class has ever been weaker than a Necro without life force. You literally have anywhere from 30-80% of your traits useless…not to mention losing your primary defense, primary cc, and a source of significant damage.

THIS IS HOW A NECRO STARTS A MATCH AND ALMOST EVERY TIME AFTER DYING.

It’s beyond ridiculous to have a class so weak at the START!

To make up for it, you literally would have to make Necros OP and able to take on 2v1 with a full life force, but this is far from reality.

What they did to a grandmaster trait – Dhumfire – and other nerfs to the condi spec without any compensation was further devastating.

Thus, it should not be a surprise that they’ve made Necros practically extinct (or a huge liability) in competitive PvP.

This game has seen iterations of several classes being double (or even tripled up) in PvP…a few other classes have never been wanted in multiples…. some can’t even get a one spot without rearranging the entire team and strategy.

Firebird, just because you have two people specifically built for reviving you doesn’t make necromancer more viable than what it currently is.

Jelzouki.4128:

Firebird, just because you have two people specifically built for reviving you doesn’t make necromancer more viable than what it currently is.

Finally someone said it lol

Hey Firebird why did you switch to Medi Guard last go4cup when you guys got DESTROYED by HoE in the first game?

Could it be because you felt the necro was a liability?

Narkodx.1472:

Jelzouki.4128:

Firebird, just because you have two people specifically built for reviving you doesn’t make necromancer more viable than what it currently is.

Finally someone said it lol

Hey Firebird why did you switch to Medi Guard last go4cup when you guys got DESTROYED by HoE in the first game?

Could it be because you felt the necro was a liability?

More importantly, what other class in the game requires teammates to trait just to keep a certain player up? It’s true that Necromancer can work with a well played team, but honestly outside of tournies or serious brackets, I am sure arenanet is interested in making a class viable outside of relying on teammates to make a class work alone. No other class is subjected to this treatment. And with necro being a pretty selfish class, we dont even provide much utility, outside of boon manipulation, to our team which was lost for them trying to make up for us.

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Probably because the changes to FitG and Lich Form, coupled with Nos’ performance in the tourney and the earlier “mobility” buff were the straw that broke the Necro’s back. The Necromancer forums have been full of discussion like this for a long time because ANet rarely pays our class any mind (check how many devs have visited the Necro forums and said something in the past year or how often our skills get changed at all). So it has more or less gotten to the point where the Necro subforums are bleeding out into other forums in an effort to actually get someone to pay attention to the problems with the class.

As for your 3v1 statement, anyone who’s competent can roll over a group of people who don’t know how to play their classes with any class, hence why anecdotal evidence is rarely helpful. Likewise, anyone who is halfway decent at the game knows exactly how to counterplay Necros to the point where they can’t do kitten.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958

Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958

Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.

I see one person saying that and everyone else disagreeing with said person. While they do counter Celementalists and Elengineers well…they still aren’t taken on most teams.

Think about that. They counter what is, on average, 60% of the opposing team, yet most teams don’t want one. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

I dunno, Necro feels really good to me in sPvP. It’s a very different thing than in WvW (for me at least) but once you figure it out, and once you get used to the general builds people use, it becomes a lot better. When I first started playing sPvP with Necro it felt underwhelming and squishy. In WvW you could tank a zerg and in sPvP you melt away but after a while when you figure out the name of the game, it should be a lot more powerful. Granted, it does feel like you need to use more brainpower to play Necro than some other classes (casting skills backwards with camera flip, good keybinds to do that too, and always thinking ahead – SWalk and Wurm need planning), and it’s definitely more hectic profession to play because you are actually taking hits and soaking up damage. I don’t play the hardcore “premade vs. premade” yet, mostly just random ques as solo or a friend or two. Just 10 mins ago I’ve finished playing some soloQ with condi Necro and actually had a good team, and good opponents and it felt amazing. I dunno, I see both sides of the argument but I really can’t say “Necro sucks” when I actually feel like it rocks. You just need a decent team.

I think a lot of people don’t play the profession because it requires you to not get kittened off easily and be able to take defeat and learn. I know a lot of people who wanted to play Necro to try it out, and not one of em stuck to it. As soon as they die several times they give up. And the problem is that I think Necro becomes rewarding only later on, and a lot of people don’t reach that point. I think it’s a hard profession.
Just my opinion.

Now… for that Weakening Shroud blast

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958

Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.

I know of a single build that a condi necromancer COUNTERS the way thieves counter mesmers or mediguards counter thieves: rabid engi with pistol/shield. However, rifle celestial engis are nowadays 2 or 3 times more common.Versus these or versus d/d cele ele the encounter would I think be mostly even. But of course, either one of these two can do much more than a necro can and is a lot more survivable in actual team play…

I think the main issue is that in group play, utility and healing is MUCH more important than having say a lot of health. Now take for example a celestial elementalist. In a team, the aoe condi removal, healing and boon application on short cooldown are A LOT more useful than the couple of condi transfers / boon corruptions necros have (on longer cooldowns). On top of that, the condition damage output of the two is actually comparabe and in literally ALL other aspects (direct damage, mobility, survivability) the ele is vastly superior to a condi necro.

What I am saying is I guess: as long as the unique abilities of condition necromancers (condi transfer and boon corruption) are not buffed in a meaningfool way, they will not have a place in the current meta.

zone.1073:

But seeing one of the most competitive teams NA get crushed in an international tournament because their Necro got camped and picked off .

Rofl, carry on.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958

Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.

I see one person saying that and everyone else disagreeing with said person. While they do counter Celementalists and Elengineers well…they still aren’t taken on most teams.

Think about that. They counter what is, on average, 60% of the opposing team, yet most teams don’t want one. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.

Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

Yasha.5963:

Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.

Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

So by this sentiment – if I can gather a bunch of people and state Rangers are fine since they outmatch any class in a 1v1, and thus can hold a point like no tomorrow, they are according to your logic in a good spot?

Despite the fact that the three least represented classes in the endgame of PvP are Mesmer, Necro and Ranger for a reason?

Here let me lay something fresh on you; Necro, Mesmer and Ranger work. Period. They can all do their tricks and more than often create interesting matchups in the favour of these classes…

However, all three of these are underrepresented, and require not just a bit more effort from the player – but a ton more… The fact that there are but three Mesmers in total, 1.5 Rangers (Drazeh) and 1.5 Necromancers (Drazeh again) in the top of both the NA and EU tournaments is quite telling as to what these classes are (not) capable of doing…

The risk/reward for these classes is not worth it – and quite frankly, it is nothing new for any of these as these classes have been suffering from this for literally years…

But hey, as long as they can destroy your average pug in SoloQ, despite the fact that any good player on any class can achieve the same, means they would never have to get some attention right?

Narkodx.1472:

Hey Firebird why did you switch to Medi Guard last go4cup when you guys got DESTROYED by HoE in the first game?

Could it be because you felt the necro was a liability?

#EleEleEleEleEleBestEle

I agree necro needs buffs

GoogleBrandon.5073:

But hey, as long as they can destroy your average pug in SoloQ, despite the fact that any good player on any class can achieve the same, means they would never have to get some attention right?

By that logic they must be as good as any other class, otherwise said average pug would destroy the unviable Necro, no?

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Yasha.5963:

Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.

Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

So by this sentiment – if I can gather a bunch of people and state Rangers are fine since they outmatch any class in a 1v1, and thus can hold a point like no tomorrow, they are according to your logic in a good spot?

Despite the fact that the three least represented classes in the endgame of PvP are Mesmer, Necro and Ranger for a reason?

Here let me lay something fresh on you; Necro, Mesmer and Ranger work. Period. They can all do their tricks and more than often create interesting matchups in the favour of these classes…

However, all three of these are underrepresented, and require not just a bit more effort from the player – but a ton more… The fact that there are but three Mesmers in total, 1.5 Rangers (Drazeh) and 1.5 Necromancers (Drazeh again) in the top of both the NA and EU tournaments is quite telling as to what these classes are (not) capable of doing…

The risk/reward for these classes is not worth it – and quite frankly, it is nothing new for any of these as these classes have been suffering from this for literally years…

But hey, as long as they can destroy your average pug in SoloQ, despite the fact that any good player on any class can achieve the same, means they would never have to get some attention right?

Oh so by your logic if I can gather a few people together and say necro needs a buff then it makes it so? And now you want to throw mesmers and rangers in there as well, but give no solid reasoning for this other than you think they are harder to play than other classes.

Btw, what is “end-game pvp”? That sounds like something only someone with no clue about this game would say.

Like you point out any good player on any class can have a good chance of winning games, so stop crying for buffs and L2P.

Yasha.5963:

Oh so by your logic if I can gather a few people together and say necro needs a buff then it makes it so? And now you want to throw mesmers and rangers in there as well, but give no solid reasoning for this other than you think they are harder to play than other classes.

Btw, what is “end-game pvp”? That sounds like something only someone with no clue about this game would say.

Like you point out any good player on any class can have a good chance of winning games, so stop crying for buffs and L2P.

No, that was not my sentiment, and quite frankly, I do not have the patience to once more talk in circles…

What I can gather from this reply from you is that you got no clue as to who I am and what kind of arguements I usually have to get some classes respectively a better position, which goes beyond “Lol buffs plz”…

You probably also missed the fact that I even flat out stated that the balance will be thrown into whack when HoT comes out that I doubt they will try and compensate for the weaknesses some classes have…

However, what I gather from you is that you are fairly opinionated about something you cannot grasp… Which is why I should probably take my leave again because there is no point in argueing with people who are not open to an arguement or willing to see beyond their comfort zone…

Oh and a last thing… I do not need to L2P – I am not competitive enough to compete on the top tier in PvP-Land, so whenever I do que up with my Necro as a team, I win most of my games… Something that is not reserved to playing my Necromancer, as I main a Warrior, and get more wins on that than any other profession… I know what this class, and all the other classes are and are not capable off, and get a comfortable lead with this knowledge… Maybe you should do the same, and then you would have a less biased opinion about professions and people alike

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958

Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.

I see one person saying that and everyone else disagreeing with said person. While they do counter Celementalists and Elengineers well…they still aren’t taken on most teams.

Think about that. They counter what is, on average, 60% of the opposing team, yet most teams don’t want one. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.

Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

First off Drarnor is constantly in the necromancer forum. When they released info about the forum specialist a thread was created by the community and almost everyone wanted Drarnor to be the specialist so I wouldn’t question his knowledge of what the necromancer community is asking for.

By your logic, necromancers are OP over the fact that they can crush cele engis? So that puts them on the same scale as engis and eles? That’s great and stuff but as you can see engis and eles don’t really have any other major counters to them besides the necromancers (not even the necro in general, try rolling a different build to beat them 1v1 let me know how that works out for you). So you’re judging the strength of class on its 1v1 capabilities. Its nice that you tried to step into the old dusty dark cave that is the necromancer forum, but just because you go in there once and read a few threads doesn’t sum up months and months of the community asking for changes.

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958

Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.

I see one person saying that and everyone else disagreeing with said person. While they do counter Celementalists and Elengineers well…they still aren’t taken on most teams.

Think about that. They counter what is, on average, 60% of the opposing team, yet most teams don’t want one. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.

Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

Three people are saying that: one who appears to be trolling, due to saying that Cele Engineer is weak and Necros are OP (this person is also responsible for ~80% of the “Necros are strong” posts in the thread), one who is discussing minion master of all things (probably the Necro’s weakest build), and one who is well known to hate facing Necros because he doesn’t like bringing condition clears (as apparent from his posting history in multiple threads on the forum).

Perhaps I read more thoroughly than yourself.

The argument that Necros need improvements is not based on “we want to be better than everyone,” which is a childish reason. It is based on easily stated facts: under-representation on premade teams, especially considering it’s a “counter” to half the meta, it’s complete and utter lack of desirability in PvE, and some mathematical issues as well.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Yasha.5963:

A couple of weeks ago people were saying that necro is one of the strongest classes, especially in pugs and how they could take on three players at once, turn games around etc.

Now suddenly it is weak and needs buff to be viable, ok……..

Umm, what? Who was saying that? Last time that was the case against any decent players was back in the beta weekends (when, let’s face it, everyone was kinda meh).

Here you go: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Experts-What-class-carries-solos-best/page/2#post4636958

Not to mention that some necro builds directly counter some of the most annoying builds in spvp atm. If necro mobility/escape mechanics are boosted they need to have damage and life force regen nerfed.

I see one person saying that and everyone else disagreeing with said person. While they do counter Celementalists and Elengineers well…they still aren’t taken on most teams.

Think about that. They counter what is, on average, 60% of the opposing team, yet most teams don’t want one. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

Actually, several people in that thread say necro is uber in spvp, if you are having trouble reading I can copy and paste for you to help. Also, most people say engi/ele cele builds are the most OP builds in spvp atm. Necro is a direct counter to that so is in a good place in that respect as well.

Note the classes that are not mentioned- guard, warrior and I think Mesmer. I don’t think those classes are UP, but necro was getting placed in the top three most OP classes in spvp, at least in pugs, and now you think they need a buff. Seems more than a little off, don’t you think?

Three people are saying that: one who appears to be trolling, due to saying that Cele Engineer is weak and Necros are OP (this person is also responsible for ~80% of the “Necros are strong” posts in the thread), one who is discussing minion master of all things (probably the Necro’s weakest build), and one who is well known to hate facing Necros because he doesn’t like bringing condition clears (as apparent from his posting history in multiple threads on the forum).

Perhaps I read more thoroughly than yourself.

The argument that Necros need improvements is not based on “we want to be better than everyone,” which is a childish reason. It is based on easily stated facts: under-representation on premade teams, especially considering it’s a “counter” to half the meta, it’s complete and utter lack of desirability in PvE, and some mathematical issues as well.

Well said. There are definitely issues that need to be fixed. Necro’s are a counter to the cele meta. The reason not many have one on their team? Because they are not willing to put in the time to learn how to play with one on their team. Necro has different needs than EVERY single other class on a team. If the team can’t figure that out, they will fall flat on their face. You have 2 options, 1: Put in classes that can provide the best peels for a necro on the team or 2: Spec for rezzing because if you don’t peel for him, you will need to rez. Every other class has the ability to either 1: go invul, 2: blink/ port out, 3: go super speed/ block and get out of the fight. Necro has none of that and therefore needs help from the team to get out. Abjured figured that out really quick in WTS when Noscoc got trained down non stop. Their comp is horrible for Necro support peels. All they can do it heal him if their is more than 1 enemy on him. First time he got hard focused and they realize that they could do nothing. The comp they are looking at maybe switching to would be a LOT better for having a necro on the team.

No other class requires ‘special needs’ on the team to do well. It is not in a great place, same as ranger. No one is saying, hey give us more POWER. We are simple asking for things that every other class has, a way out or mitigate damage a bit. Necro has 0 vigor when most classes have almost perma vigor. That alone would be a huge buff.

A lot of people said a team has to be built around a mesmer to do good with one. Same as Necro. You not only need certain classes, but the players must know what they need to do when they necro is in the team fight with them.

If a necro in Go4’s on a random team died as much as Noscoc in the WTS, people would be saying that player is horrible and sux. Since it’s Nos, most are giving him a lot less flack on the issue (sure he gets his share). Their comp was never fitting for a necro and a team finally realized how to solve that and beat them. The truth is, it is not necessarily Nos’s fault. His team failed to bring the support a Necro needs (which shouldn’t be this way) and they paid for it.

Necros are not as much of a counter to the cele meta as people are saying. It is true that in 1v1 fights against cele bruisers, terror necro is probably the best if it’s a forced fight to the death, but the thing is that it’s not a forced fight to the death. All 3 cele bruisers are much faster than terror necro and can just rotate around him.

D/D ele is going to push your close point. Are you saying that you send your necro to defend it? The ele can just force the necro out of the team fight and back to close, then the ele has FGS lightning flash RTL burning speed and perma swiftness – they will get back to the mid fight and +1 before the necro can. The ele took the necro out of the fight without even fighting him.

The necro has a wurm for port but compare the CD on that to the overall mobility of FGS, RTL, perma swift, burning speed, and lightning flash.

A shoutbow can do this too with low CD sword leap and perma swift. An engi can do this too, maybe a little slower, but can drop CCs behind him to slow the necro.

The necro is just too easy to play around him. You need a bruiser class that can not only handle the 1v1 but also keep up in speed. The necro belongs in the team fight where he will undoubtedly get focused by the enemy, and the enemy comp has so many CC’s and AoE sustain that unless your team has some heavy coordinated burst your necro is going to die before anyone on the other team does.

This is all assuming completely equal skill. Many examples people give are just examples of person A outplaying person B and that means nothing as far as balance goes.

So really the necro is just good for a coordinated burst in a team fight against an enemy with lots of boons. (what this means is any other situation, another class would probably perform better). And this is a little too specific of a role for a class’ viability.

^ Lol. This too (some). Most are using personal situations. I saw one person say, “Necro is unbeatable 1v1 and some 2v1 situations”. That is a low tier statement. In bottom tier, yes. Not in the top. Necro (While it can) most of the time, should not be pushing 1v1’s. Send another player instead, train someone or 2 on the point the necro is on and then go +1 that fight too. Necro is best in small skirmishes and some team fights (depending on comp). While you can win some 1v1’s, that is not the job of the necro unless it is forced upon you. You are better suited somewhere else on the map.

Necros are NOT a counter to either one of the celestial classes. Even a cele engi has very good chances against a necro due to all the CC and diverse sources of damage. Also, the way I see it, your ‘special needs’ theory is simply another way of saying that necros need help, where other classes do not.

Usually, to try to justify why necros require some kind of special assistance, the argument is made that they are devastating to a team if left alone, and hense will be pressured by the opponents . While true for a power necro in Lich form, in all other instances this is actually not the case at all. When is the last time you saw a necro making impact through the use of epidemic? I hardly see condi necros anymore, and the ones that are still there don’t even bother trying anymore because condi removal is so prevalent that everything will be gone by the time you cast it.

Let’s face it, the reason necros are focused so much is primarily not because they are so devastating, but because whenever facing one that is not in Lich the first thought coming to mind is: ‘huh, this will be some nice practice for my burst and cc’. Maining a mesmer, I know what I am talking about.

Tissitra.4153:

Maining a mesmer, I know what I am talking about.

Great argument. You don’t main necro, so you know what you are talking about; because you main Mesmer?

Lol. Jesus christ, some people in this thread.

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

Maining a mesmer, I know what I am talking about.

Great argument. You don’t main necro, so you know what you are talking about; because you main Mesmer?

Lol. Jesus christ, some people in this thread.

He’s saying he knows what it’s like to see a necro and think it’s basically a punching bag.

Well, that is not the case. So he is wrong. Necro IS a counter to a cele Ele. If he can’t beat one using a necro, than it is not the class that is the issue; it’s him. Too many posts on here of people with their “Personal” experiences. If Necro countered nothing (everything has a counter) then no team at all would use one. Not even Ajbured. If a necro goes toe to toe with a mesmer in an even fight (players equal and both have all CD’s), Necro wins 100%. You may be thinking of walking into a teamfight with full CD’s and seeing a necro in there and being able to take him out. Why,? because he is focusing someone else and has used most his cool downs in the fight already. You could say the same about any class in said fight that didn’t just walk into it. With your burst, of course you will take out a class that has been in the fight a while and has no CD’s.

Tissitra.4153:

Necros are NOT a counter to either one of the celestial classes. Even a cele engi has very good chances against a necro due to all the CC and diverse sources of damage. Also, the way I see it, your ‘special needs’ theory is simply another way of saying that necros need help, where other classes do not.

Usually, to try to justify why necros require some kind of special assistance, the argument is made that they are devastating to a team if left alone, and hense will be pressured by the opponents . While true for a power necro in Lich form, in all other instances this is actually not the case at all. When is the last time you saw a necro making impact through the use of epidemic? I hardly see condi necros anymore, and the ones that are still there don’t even bother trying anymore because condi removal is so prevalent that everything will be gone by the time you cast it.

Let’s face it, the reason necros are focused so much is primarily not because they are so devastating, but because whenever facing one that is not in Lich the first thought coming to mind is: ‘huh, this will be some nice practice for my burst and cc’. Maining a mesmer, I know what I am talking about.

Ever asked yourself why there is so much condi removal in the current meta?

Let me give you my opinion : aoe ranged condi application, would the necro be forced at mele to apply conditons to a single target then I’d say “Ok you’re right”; but we all know that unless you fill your bar with condi removal..your entire team get demolished in no time.

Am I wrong? Then fnd me a single team that use builds sporting just a couple of condi removal each

GhOst.4019:

Well, that is not the case. So he is wrong. Necro IS a counter to a cele Ele. If he can’t beat one using a necro, than it is not the class that is the issue; it’s him. Too many posts on here of people with their “Personal” experiences. If Necro countered nothing (everything has a counter) then no team at all would use one. Not even Ajbured. If a necro goes toe to toe with a mesmer in an even fight (players equal and both have all CD’s), Necro wins 100%. You may be thinking of walking into a teamfight with full CD’s and seeing a necro in there and being able to take him out. Why,? because he is focusing someone else and has used most his cool downs in the fight already. You could say the same about any class in said fight that didn’t just walk into it. With your burst, of course you will take out a class that has been in the fight a while and has no CD’s.

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Supreme.3164:

Ever asked yourself why there is so much condi removal in the current meta?

Let me give you my opinion : aoe ranged condi application, would the necro be forced at mele to apply conditons to a single target then I’d say “Ok you’re right”; but we all know that unless you fill your bar with condi removal..your entire team get demolished in no time.

Am I wrong? Then fnd me a single team that use builds sporting just a couple of condi removal each

Counterpoint: most condition cleanse is AoE.

You want to bring some condition cleanses to deal with Immobilize (necros don’t have a lot) and poison (necros do have a lot). The reason why AoE condition removal is so prevalent is because most condition removal happens to be AoE.

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Tissitra.4153:

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Seriously are you playing the same game as us?

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Seriously are you playing the same game as us?

In my experience a good DD ele has the upper hand vs terror necro. I was dueling Karina, one of the best necros yesterday, I won 3, he won 2, and those were in open field and the ones where I died I played unusually aggressive. On point I would’ve been unbeatable. Power necro stands almost no chance against a good DD ele. You have to proc CoD when they have no CDs and then get guaranteed dagger autos to win. You also have no way to bait LF to get out of wells. Most power necros dont even get me to 50% to proc CoD LOL.

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Seriously are you playing the same game as us?

Is this supposed to be an argument? Indeed only one of the skills and traits that I suggested changing is used in the current terrormancer build.

Elitist.8701:

NeXeD.3042:

Tissitra.4153:

GhOst.4019:

Tissitra.4153:

There was a thread a while back whose purpose was to discuss build performance in matchups:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Meta-Build-1v1-Tiers-and-Discussion-9-3-2015/first#post4875852

If I count correctly, two people said that between cele ele and terrormancer it is 50-50, one said that it is 60-40 in favor of the ele and one that it is 70-30 in favor of the ele (on staff). Noone said that the necro has an advantage.

Also, a necro is not good against a mesmer. But even if you don’t believe that, blanket statements like ‘necro wins 100% of the time’ are not exactly plausible…

Those are personal experiences, hence why they are all over the place. Also, you are only counting terror. This is a Necro post in general and counts in power as well, not just terrormancer. Also you base your conclusion on what 3 people said? Show me on that list people in the top tier that said ele beats necro. Most of the results (if using that thread) you will find at best is a 50:50 combining both builds and situation. Only way they ele ever wins is if they LOS a lot (true and stated many times in that thread you are referencing). That requires them to get off point and loose it, to win. Everyone that stated ele wins said they LOS the necro. Can’t do that on point, and as a reminder, this is a point game. Either way it won’t be the fastest fight in the world. Option 1: Ele gets off point to try to win the fight, point goes neut and before the fight ends most likely someone on either side would have shown up. Option 2: Ele tries to defend the point and dies due to not being able to LOS. Power necro will tear through the ele and a terror mancer will corrupt your Armor and u are screwed as well. If you remember right, we are talking even fights, therefore everyone has their CD’s.

Either way doesn’t really matter. Necro would only be in that situation unless he absolutely had to. Necro would be better used in a 2v2 + anywhere else on the map and the team would benefit more from it.
EDIT:
There is 1 post from a top tier Necro in there that states Necro wins (terror and power) unless LOSed a crap load. There is 1 post from a top tier Ele in there that said Ele wins unless their Armour gets corrupted and power necro will always win. With all CD’s, that means necro wins unless ele can get lucky and miss the corrupt. You looked at ratios and didn’t read what anyone wrote.

Well you did start out with the claim that a necro is a hardcounter to a cele ele and anyone saying otherwise should learn their class. While I agree that the sample size in the thread I quoted was small, I think that it (and the severe underrepresentation in the current tourney play) is quite sufficient to disprove that. I focused on condi necro because power necros are doing better (while still not being a hardcounter to cele builds).

Back to what the original purpose of the thread was: I submit that the changes I suggested above are reasonable. In fact, almost none of them affect the current terrormaner build, they might however make other builds viable.

Seriously are you playing the same game as us?

In my experience a good DD ele has the upper hand vs terror necro. I was dueling Karina, one of the best necros yesterday, I won 3, he won 2, and those were in open field and the ones where I died I played unusually aggressive. On point I would’ve been unbeatable. Power necro stands almost no chance against a good DD ele. You have to proc CoD when they have no CDs and then get guaranteed dagger autos to win. You also have no way to bait LF to get out of wells. Most power necros dont even get me to 50% to proc CoD LOL.

yeah I was looking more at the power necro has a better chance than terror.

In no way shape or form do I think terror is a counter to dd eles.

@tissatataratat It’s not an argument, it’s a question. You are the same person saying necro needed more condi manipulation, corruption, and cc but not a buff to bm and dm…..