Guild Wars 2

Afraid that happened without use of a macro Jumper.

You were hit by an Illusionary Warlock strike. At the same time, the Mesmer used his stun breaker – Mirror Images – creating two clones and did an instant F1 shatter.

You were hit by a three hit Mind Wrack. 3k per hit is high though, especially as he was not might stacked.

In theory, using an F3 shatter before F1 with use of a macro would have stacked vulnerability first, increasing the damage, but I couldn’t see this in your video. You could have checked your combat log to be 100% sure.

I’m not saying it isn’t a broken mechanic, just that he may not have been exploiting.

You’re saying a normal shatter instantly killed him. There is no time to even shadow-step out of that. He did 9k instantly.

You got blown up is what just happened.

The speed at which he did it maybe was a macro, but then again he was obviously expecting you and was hovering over the button/s anyway. He only needed to hit his Mirror Images CD and shatter it, and with you on top of him the effect was instantaneous. Although it helped he got lucky and crit all of his hits, he also got the added bonus of not only crit damage but also the effect from his Sigil.

The shatter and the phantasm hit. That’s what the damage report says, and fits within normal gameplay mechanics.

This burst combo was available before the recent buff to mesmers. If Jumper had been luckier, and landed his backstab, I imagine the Mesmer would also be dead.

This is why you mostly see a Thief popping a Mesmer’s portal then leaving, and not engaging in a 1v1.

If Jumper had more time, he could have engaged with shortbow, destroying phantasm and lowering the Mesmer’s hp enough that Mug and CnD would have killed him.

Narcarsis.5739:

You’re saying a normal shatter instantly killed him. There is no time to even shadow-step out of that. He did 9k instantly.

Nor was there time for him to blink away from Jumper’s steal. He had obviously committed to that response should he get attacked. He did get lucky though that combo doesn’t usually kill anybody outright unless they’re a no toughness low health glass cannon like Jumper.

There was no space required for the attacks to take place and land. It was instantaneous damage.

Wow I already thought mesmers were overpowered, but this is too much… I guss I will have to play shatter now until they get nerfed…

Zelulose.8695:

Wow I already thought mesmers were overpowered, but this is too much… I guss I will have to play shatter now until they get nerfed…

Please do play a shatter build. As mesmer you are strongly encouraged to play nothing but shatter largely due to how mechanics like thief Steal > BS > CnD works. It’s so fast that you are often dead by the time the thief renders on your screen.

There’s no other build besides shatter spec that is reliable for a mesmer and you have to be on the ball to pop you shatter CD’s in order to prevent the cheese lock-down 1 shot combo’s.

Wise.8025:

Nor was there time for him to blink away from Jumper’s steal.

He did escape though, he reacted and distorted the backstab. Jumper had no time to respond to that whatsoever. Thieves do not nearly as much survivability as glass mesmers.

Really – you complain about the mesmers damage? He reacted really fast – pressed several keys in really short time and deserved to kill you. Look how much damage you was doing to him with just pressing 1-F1. Thats ridiculous too, and you had the advantage of knowing the time you attack. And you are pure glass-cannon.
Obviously you had the advantage of beginning the fight and you lost because he was better.
But i dont see any clue that this should be a macro.

Yep. Who in the right mind would say Mesmers are more balanced than Thieves right now? You are going to get shunned if your mentality is as shallow as the statement that “Thieves take less skill than Mesmers.”

“Reacted fast and killed you”

GOD you are SHALLOW minded. Its a macro, its against the rules, yet people are using it and they think its fair game.

When you play the game of glass, you win or you die.

Generally you don’t 1v1 as a glass spec, it’s not a good idea. The problem with mesmers is that they have so much survivability through invuln and stealth that they can build straight glass 1v1 anything and come out on top against builds that are meant to outlast the opponent. Not saying jumper wouldn’t have died anyway, but they have the same burst, but twice (if not thrice) the survivability.

Garadon.3189:

When you play the game of glass, you win or you die.

Ye but not in less than a second….

Schwahrheit.4203:

GOD you are SHALLOW minded. Its a macro, its against the rules, yet people are using it and they think its fair game.

Why do you think its a macro? I really dont see any evidence for it. And calm down guy – no need to be abusive.
You dont think people can react in short time? Then why the hell am i always hearing: “l2p, dodge thieves attack”, even if they precast BS or Cnd before steal.

interferenz.8739:

You dont think people can react in short time? Then why the hell am i always hearing: “l2p, dodge thieves attack”, even if they precast BS or Cnd before steal.

If you estimate steal range and roll as he gets in range you will dodge backstab combo against 90% of thieves.

This is related to the “exploit” or “bug” in the other thread. Its possible to do without a macro.

I think it only works in full if all your clones are really close by (which they were in this case).

Not much else to say. 2 glass cannons going at it. You took 75% of his life down before he could mirror image. If he was a hair slower at targeting you, you mighta killed him before he even got to retaliate at all.

If I had 0.25 seconds to react to him summoning extra clones and shattering like inbetween Thief hits, then fine, I’d say its relatively balanced and it was my fault for not reacting and not shadowstepping away in time like I do to 90% of the thieves that try that combo on me.
But he shattered me with clones that didn’t even appear on my screen until I was down. (for 3k+ per hit, mind you. As much as your standard 50-25% heartseeker.)

This has happened to me running a 2.7k armor defensive based build with protection up, it doesn’t only affect glass cannons, which is why a lot of us have been frustrated. Thieves don’t do that kind of damage to anyone running with toughness, in over 2000 matches, not once has a Thief insta-gibbed me unless I was running with less than 2.2k armor, unless I was already half-dead and they searched me out of the group (which is the pattern lately as everyone goes to take out the Engineer first in pick up play now).

Anyway, this is quoted from Jonathan Sharp himself from another thread, and hopefully sheds enough light for those of you defending this to close this thread or merge it with the other.

JonathanSharp.7094:

@ Mesmer: We’ll be addressing the current Mesmer build that’s spiking for insane damage. Sorry that change got through – it is something we’ll be fixing.

@ Macros: Macros are against the user agreement. You can be banned for using them, so use them at your own risk. I would also advise against using them, because in live tournaments, you won’t be able to use macros. So it makes little sense to learn “bad habbits” you’ll just have to retrain later.

We adhere to the same “one keystroke = one action on one character/account”, which is used by a lot of MMO publishers when defining botting/macros.

Just wanted to clear that up – be careful w/ those macros, they can get you banned.

if its a macro they shd do something about it lol
if its not a macro is this the game that we all want? glass killing glass in less than 1 second? nope and that shows in the numbers that play tpvp.
Anet what you should do is shut down the servers, grab gw1 put gw2 graphics on it and then turn the servers back on, Maybe then you will have an “esport”

@Jumper. Thieves dont get rendered on the screen until your dead either. It seems to be a fault with the game. Objects seem to be able to interact whilst they are stil invisible/being summoned.

Reguarding the thread topic though, there are 2 other threads about this, which have red replies in.

The only people thieves can kill instantly are other glass who run around with 1k toughness and 14k hp with no defensive cool downs, and even then they can react and avoid burst.

Which is why it’s not in Anet’s interest to keep the current burst and survivability potential at either side of the spectrum going.

Right now people play glass cannons believing that they are the better player and thus able to neutralize the opponent’s glass cannon(s), before they can get killed by them. Reality is, after playing and watching so many matches where the same people and builds are involved, it’s obvious that this “mini-game” within the matches can go either way, depending on factors that, often enough, are outside of your control.

We need to get to a point where glass can not kill or be killed as fast and where sustain doesn’t come through multiple times the healing your adversary has available, so that players can act and react, rather than not being able to act/react or being forced to, because they can’t endure longer fights.

Skill is about decision making, anticipating, acting and reacting. TTK has to allow for these factors to influence battle, else it becomes a coin toss.

Whoever is in charge needs to realize that. There’s a place for burst and glass cannons even in an environment where TTK from a single player is >5 seconds. It’d also encourage team play.

Watching streams where glass cannon thieves keep repeating on vent/teamspeak that they need to wait for the glass cannon thief on the other side to make a move, before they can act at all in fear of losing above mentioned mini game and leaving their team at a disadvantage, should open people’s eyes to what’s wrong currently.

i can’t be bothered to go through the whole thread. i know dimyzuka personally and he doesn’t macro. that aside i will explain what happens in the video:

1. already a clone and phantasm out
2. when jumper comes out of stealth he F2 shatters
3. stun breaks (gets 2 clones)
4. F3 -> F1 (since you can shatter F1 with F3 clone lol)

he also had fire sigil proc

either way, not macro as i explained in-game jumper just broken F3 shatter

ciao

-icifyr

Narcarsis.5739:

The only people thieves can kill instantly are other glass who run around with 1k toughness and 14k hp with no defensive cool downs, and even then they can react and avoid burst.

So u agree with us , that Mesmer damage is justified in this video :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

So u agree with us , that Mesmer damage is justified in this video :P

How would that be me agreeing with you? There was NO time for him to do anything. You can dodge thief burst, you can’t dodge what’s on that video. Mesmer damage is NOT justified.

IceTenacious.4126:

broken F3 shatter

It is indeed broken.

Narcarsis.5739:

How would that be me agreeing with you? There was NO time for him to do anything. You can dodge thief burst, you can’t dodge what’s on that video. Mesmer damage is NOT justified.

Its justified my friend :P
As long as there are classes that an do the same , the Mesmer should do it :P
As Jumper said , he had 0.25 sec time to react , like the rest of us when we get stunned by Basilisk Venom :P

I respect Jumper and his skill , but i love to see those 1 sec TKK in all classes :P

A game is not balanced simply because multiple classes are overpowered in the same way or fashion. That’s a mistaken assumption that I see used as justification over and over.

I escape basi venom burst 100% of the time, saying that you can’t means you’re not running a stun break.

If u are an expert countering other Thiefs , so u wont have any problem vs Mesmers :P
Why are we fighting ? :P

I’ve explained my issues with Mesmers, they just need to be toned down a bit. I think burst is good for the health of game and I don’t want what happened to Dancing Dagger to happen to Shatter. But with the current state their damage is game breaking.

If there were just a quarter to half second delay between the clone summon and the shatter I’d be fine with that.

Jumper got 9k damage from mindwrack and it was instant – ok.
But he also did 10k damage to the mesmer with precast BS + steal, instant too.

Sure – you can ask to nerf MW, but then it shouldnt be possible to precast skills for thieves and they should get a nerf too.
Generally i am the same opinion like others, there shouldnt be such a high burst in less than 1sec.

Why should it be possible for a Mesmer to hit 14.6k dmg instantaneously when a thief only does [that was a backstab-mug, so] 5.5k+3.5k. The only way I would have killed him afterwards were to heartseeker for the remaining 3k of his hp and that takes a 3/4 sec cast time. That is FAR more than enough time to stunbreak.
Mesmer is the only class that can 100-0% another glass build instantaneously without giving any room for reaction.

Jumper.9482:

Why should it be possible for a Mesmer to hit 14.6k dmg instantaneously when a thief only does [that was a backstab-mug, so] 5.5k+3.5k. The only way I would have killed him afterwards were to heartseeker for the remaining 3k of his hp and that takes a 3/4 sec cast time. That is FAR more than enough time to stunbreak.
Mesmer is the only class that can 100-0% another glass build instantaneously without giving any room for reaction.

from this video you can see there’s currently a bug with the daze → mindwreak shatters.. they need to fix that and remove the might stacking from mesmars.

It’s funny because he cries about a 9k hit which needed the use of a 30 seconds utility skill, plus a 15 seconds shatter cd, and really good timing, while he did 7k backstab + 4k steal instantly, pretty much undodgable and without anything special.

Yes mesmers are OP, but so are thieves, they do more damage and easier. Gotta nerf them both.

Jumper if you use quiqnes in your combo is a instakill with 0,7 s to react but yes the both instakills must be erased

Jumper.9482:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wr8l833Gs9I

Please explain what just happened.

only 2 words…

GLOBAL CD

in the all kittening mesmer spells

Get a proper tPVP build before you whine.

Lol Basilisk Venom.

PS. Thief are made of paper, any AoE kills them even Warrior Whirlwind instagib them.

Move along its just a L2P issue. Just a tip, use Shortbow against Mesmers to destroy their phantasms and clones

Its getting nerfed… no point in trolling about it. inc .5 sec cast time on mirror images and shatter.

They need to get rid of the mesmer class its stupid that they are absolutely required for tPvP because of portal and things like that.

They don’t need to get rid of it at all… The damage just needs to be toned down by 3-4k total (about 400-500 per shatter) and a hit to might stacking/remove glitch.

Without even considering the fact that 3k per shatter shouldn’t happen…
Do you guys throwing your usual “lolthieves do the same” and “l2p sb” even realise he actually takes 9k damage before the illusions even appear ?
Did you see they appeared and shattered after the spike ?

<<If they lower their clone damage , the class will be destroyed
They are worthless as tanks and the only job there is for them is as a glass cannon
Their main attacks are really pitiful
Ppl should L2P , instead of whining on the forums
Ppl should look how to counter them and look on the pros on Twitch videos
The class is already worthless and if nerf their damage all the ppl will quit>>

Replace the <<Mesmer>> with an other class here :P
After all this time , i want to troll a bit too :P

So… If the thief had had, I dont know 1 maybe1.5 more seconds probably less the mesmer would have been dead. Thats normal right? But the mesmer seeing it coming and blowing all his important cooldowns to burst back in a death race is “unfair”?

whatever… Im glad i dont play a shatter build. just seems funny when instagib burst people complain when it happens to them.

pinkbunnies.4620:

So… If the thief had had, I dont know 1 maybe1.5 more seconds probably less the mesmer would have been dead. Thats normal right? But the mesmer seeing it coming and blowing all his important cooldowns to burst back in a death race is “unfair”?

whatever… Im glad i dont play a shatter build. just seems funny when instagib burst people complain when it happens to them.

Its about equal burst but you are forgeting some things. Mesmer has a portal. Time warp for teamfights. His burst is AoE scale. His burst is possible more often then is thiefs.

Stin.9781:

pinkbunnies.4620:

So… If the thief had had, I dont know 1 maybe1.5 more seconds probably less the mesmer would have been dead. Thats normal right? But the mesmer seeing it coming and blowing all his important cooldowns to burst back in a death race is “unfair”?

whatever… Im glad i dont play a shatter build. just seems funny when instagib burst people complain when it happens to them.

Its about equal burst but you are forgeting some things. Mesmer has a portal. Time warp for teamfights. His burst is AoE scale. His burst is possible more often then is thiefs.

O yeah? how many utilities do you think these mesmers have on their skill bar? everyone seems to think they come built in with decoy, blink, mirror images, signet, and portal… Its like when people homogenize warrior/ele/thief builds in their qq by picking the strongest things from a variety of mutually exclusive set ups and complaining like its possible to do it all at once.

like i said I dont play shatter build so it doesn’t directly impact me but the hypocrisy is palpable in the devs rush to cater to this particular qq.

pinkbunnies.4620:

Stin.9781:

pinkbunnies.4620:

So… If the thief had had, I dont know 1 maybe1.5 more seconds probably less the mesmer would have been dead. Thats normal right? But the mesmer seeing it coming and blowing all his important cooldowns to burst back in a death race is “unfair”?

whatever… Im glad i dont play a shatter build. just seems funny when instagib burst people complain when it happens to them.

Its about equal burst but you are forgeting some things. Mesmer has a portal. Time warp for teamfights. His burst is AoE scale. His burst is possible more often then is thiefs.

O yeah? how many utilities do you think these mesmers have on their skill bar? everyone seems to think they come built in with decoy, blink, mirror images, signet, and portal… Its like when people homogenize warrior/ele/thief builds in their qq by picking the strongest things from a variety of mutually exclusive set ups and complaining like its possible to do it all at once.

like i said I dont play shatter build so it doesn’t directly impact me but the hypocrisy is palpable in the devs rush to cater to this particular qq.

I play that build myself… so dont start this stuff rly. I have portal, illiusion of life, mirrior images and time warp. It does pack all of above, exept decoy since i run ress instead of extra stunbreak. I dont have signet, as it is unneccesary.

Stop looking at the Mesmer’s damage. Look at that Thief’s damage, wtf.

F1.

1.

That takes some serious skill, man. And the mesmer is now at less than 25% health.

I watched the vid a few times but didn’t read through all the replies, I stopped after the first guy cried “macro.” The mesmer already had two clones out so all he had to do was hit 2 buttons quickly to pull this off, there was no macro used. Also, did you guys not notice the fire sigil proc, or the fact that the mesmer’s health was at like 20% right after the thief died? It was a close fight, but the luckier burst won. This is a classic “boo hoo, nerf glass cannon <signed> glass cannon” post.

Stin.9781:

pinkbunnies.4620:

Stin.9781:

pinkbunnies.4620:

So… If the thief had had, I dont know 1 maybe1.5 more seconds probably less the mesmer would have been dead. Thats normal right? But the mesmer seeing it coming and blowing all his important cooldowns to burst back in a death race is “unfair”?

whatever… Im glad i dont play a shatter build. just seems funny when instagib burst people complain when it happens to them.

Its about equal burst but you are forgeting some things. Mesmer has a portal. Time warp for teamfights. His burst is AoE scale. His burst is possible more often then is thiefs.

O yeah? how many utilities do you think these mesmers have on their skill bar? everyone seems to think they come built in with decoy, blink, mirror images, signet, and portal… Its like when people homogenize warrior/ele/thief builds in their qq by picking the strongest things from a variety of mutually exclusive set ups and complaining like its possible to do it all at once.

like i said I dont play shatter build so it doesn’t directly impact me but the hypocrisy is palpable in the devs rush to cater to this particular qq.

I play that build myself… so dont start this stuff rly. I have portal, illiusion of life, mirrior images and time warp. It does pack all of above, exept decoy since i run ress instead of extra stunbreak. I dont have signet, as it is unneccesary.

I wont quote your post history but you know you are a thief advocate/thief main and the bias you have on this issue will be clear to anyone who looks at your log.