Guild Wars 2

Fox Reeveheart.1890:

something is horribly, HORRIBLY wrong when the mesmer is doing thief burst damage with stealth and then makes a million clones of themself and goes stealth again.

I been repeatedly seeing mesmers as top players on their teams all last week and this week.

What does anet do? I don’t think they touched mesmers at all.

prior to yesterday’s patch, Mesmers already received multiple nerfs after the June 23rd patch. You guys cry about Mesmer, yet ignore the burning damage issue and Ele being OP… The only abusive trait that Mesmer should get a look at by Anet is PU.

usually when i feel like having some action and i play fresh air ele my matchups against mesmers look like this:

gs auto attack + air fire, 25% of my health gone, mantra interrupt another 25% gone.

i get in 900 range and now the actual fight starts.

So mesmers now have a chance against fresh air eles? No way! Nerf!

love the tears sincerely ~mesmer

Cogbyrn.7283:

Jasher.6580:

Mesmers are in a good spot right now. I disagree that they got overbuffed. They have multiple counters and a number of glaring weakness’ to offset whatever you think is overpowered.
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EitZRLt2G3w

Would you mind having an open discussion about the glaring weaknesses?

EDIT – I’m intrigued why you would link that video, as after watching it, this seems more like a case of the developer not balancing for skill properly.

Well it depends. Traditional Shatter has different weakness’ from Mantra shatter.

The weakness’ they have in common though is:

- Susceptibility to condi’s. (zero condi removal)
- Susceptibility to high mobility classes with burst.
- Lack of mobility outside of Portal and Mesmer Blink. (both having substantial cooldowns and/or niche uses based on the competency and/or coordination of the group.
- Difficulty landing successful shatters. (incoming omg it’z so ezee 2 land shaterz). Nevertheless, I still find it difficult and Mesmer is 1 of 3 main classes I’ve played regularly on a competitive level for a number of years. I’m almost 100% sure other people are having a difficult time with it as well.
- I know this is anecdotal evidence so you can take this one with a grain of salt, but when I play against Mesmers with other classes, I have zero difficulty killing them. Whenever I do lose, I always know why I lost and what I could have done differently to win. Counterplay.

DaShi.1368:

So mesmers now have a chance against fresh air eles? No way! Nerf!

mesmers were always superior to fresh air eles, what are you even talking about….

Mesmers got flattened by fresh air bursts, which were far more reliable than shatters.

I dont understand how random mesmer newbies who started winning some 1v1s can say “Mesmer is OK” when 2 of the best mesmers around (Coulter and WoC) have stated that it was overbuffed and that it needs nerfing.

Of course, I’m only talking about the forums. Ask ANY good mesmer and he will tell you mesmer is broken atm.

Just learn your place, really.

-also, LOL at the player with 238 games as mesmer. I can do that in 1day in hotjoin, if i wanted. Do you even lift?

Zord.6130:

I dont understand how random mesmer newbies who started winning some 1v1s can say “Mesmer is OK” when 2 of the best mesmers around (Coulter and WoC) have stated that it was overbuffed and that it needs nerfing.

Of course, I’m only talking about the forums. Ask ANY good mesmer and he will tell you mesmer is broken atm.

Just learn your place, really.

-also, LOL at the player with 238 games as mesmer. I can do that in 1day in hotjoin, if i wanted. Do you even lift?

Imma smurf my main is rank 80

DaShi.1368:

What class isn’t faceroll to play?

Revenant.

DaShi.1368:

Mesmers got flattened by fresh air bursts, which were far more reliable than shatters.

the only fresh air burst is phoenix flash and wave which can be easily avoided if you dont waste your stunbreaks or keep your distance in fire.. the air procs is sustain and not burst.

mesmer has an advantage in weapon range, blink range, hp pool and stealth. if you get 100-0 bursted by a fresh air ele then it’s a lp issue because you wasted your dodges and stunbreaks.

also mind wrack is on a way lower cooldown than phoenix and co.

Zord.6130:

I dont understand how random mesmer newbies who started winning some 1v1s can say “Mesmer is OK” when 2 of the best mesmers around (Coulter and WoC) have stated that it was overbuffed and that it needs nerfing.

Of course, I’m only talking about the forums. Ask ANY good mesmer and he will tell you mesmer is broken atm.

Just learn your place, really.

-also, LOL at the player with 238 games as mesmer. I can do that in 1day in hotjoin, if i wanted. Do you even lift?

It’s simple. People like that they can faceroll on their FOTM class and don’t want it to be nerfed. I only want very specific nerfs so that ANet can nerf the things that really need a nerf, and I think every nerf I said was pretty reasonable.

Zord.6130:

I dont understand how random mesmer newbies who started winning some 1v1s can say “Mesmer is OK” when 2 of the best mesmers around (Coulter and WoC) have stated that it was overbuffed and that it needs nerfing.

True. But people should also realize what they say was overbuffed. Only a small part is relating to damage while a huge amount of whining is about shatter burts. Although Mesmer damage hardly got any buff which is exclusive to the class.

I also want to point out that in video of the tournament we saw almost no stealth gameplay from the Mesmers although PU is another one of the things people complain about the most. Meaning: Every burst was pretty telegraphed. While I do agree that PU is rather off right now, it apparently – for me personally quite obviously – isn’t relevant or viable for high tier PvP despite being so out of line. Go figure.

Mesmers were overbuffed in some departments but the vast majority of people tends to misjudge the actual reasons why Mesmers are more powerful right now. That’s why I personally perceive all the whining as pretty threatening to class balance. We all know how ANet prefers to ‘shave’ Mesmers.

Tao.1234:

Mantra spec became viable and automatically became faceroll/2stronk?

Certainly as has been mentioned – L2p issue for sure.

Its faceroll and too strong, top players MAINING MESMERS acknowledge this. Aswel as any other top tier players. Why do u think some top teams r even running 2 mesmers?

I barely play mesmer but wow, Im boss and esports level now. With my what, 200-300 games or so? Obvious broken and faceroll or am I just THAT good?

echo.2053:

you mean after almost 3 years of rolling over mesmers players have to be told how to fight them? The same way its always been condi spam, hard counter teef, or pressuring mesmer to make a mistake.

I don’t live in the past. Sometimes changes occur in a game that alter the dynamic, and when a class emerges that appears very strong, it’s healthy to have a conversation about their weaknesses, especially if they are difficult to find. Also especially when the community won’t stop complaining about them. If you can’t have a good, honest conversation about weaknesses, maybe there’s a problem?

It took about 1-2 fights for me to see why everyone is up in arms. In one fight in particular, the Mesmer made a few clones, went into stealth within a second or two. I was stunned/immob’d out of stealth, shattered and blinded, and the Mesmer used Sword #2 to be invulnerable. A few seconds later the Mesmer went back into Stealth. The iZerker popped out (which doesn’t remove stealth, I believe), then more damage landed, a clone or two were created and the invuln shatter was used. I was blinded, the Mesmer was invulnerable again. A few seconds later, a bit after the invuln dropped, the Mesmer disappeared again. I honestly don’t remember if it was a blink up to a different level or of it was more stealth.

Over the course of about 16-20 seconds, I had maybe 1-2 solid seconds of actual opportunity to land abilities. By that time, the Mesmer could attempt another Shatter combo, which blinds, leaves the Mesmer invulnerable while slashing, and does thousands of damage.

Do I think Mesmers need to be changed because of it? No. Honestly, I was observing more than fighting, and I need more fights under my belt to get a feel for the cadence of the fight, when to use what abilities, etc. However, it felt pretty silly.

@Jasher: I appreciate the honest response. I’m a little skeptical about the difficulty of landing successful shatters, but this is probably a level of play thing. For the bottom 80%, I think leading with a free Mantra stun into a shatter combo almost guarantees it, which is part of the issue now.

The blinds, blocks, duration of stealths, power of shatters, and multiple invulnerabilities make me wonder more about the windows of opportunity to land anything (even condis, to which they are weak). When you play a class, you’re much more familiar with when you’re weak and when you aren’t, and maybe it’ll help people understand that there are more windows to strike than they think.

mesmers supposed to do burst, it is ok for them to have CCs or survival even…. what is not ok is how you can have all of it at the same time almost or on very short CD off each other

The stealth buffing combined with burst buffing enabling to basically one shot you from stealth if you have under 20k hp is pretty kittening ridicilous.

There should be some cap how much dmg you can do with basically with one attack ( I count 2-3 clone hitting shatter from invis as such).

And its true its much easier to dominate a game with mesmer even if you suck and are slow old kitten like myself

I dont want nerfs but some minor adjustments would be in place.

Terrorsquad.4802:

top players MAINING MESMERS acknowledge this. Aswel as any other top tier players.

Pretty bold statement.

manarchon.2089:

The stealth buffing combined with burst buffing enabling to basically one shot you from stealth if you have under 20k hp is pretty kittening ridicilous.

There should be some cap how much dmg you can do with basically with one attack ( I count 2-3 clone hitting shatter from invis as such).

And its true its much easier to dominate a game with mesmer even if you suck and are slow old kitten like myself

I dont want nerfs but some minor adjustments would be in place.

You can counter it. with skills like endure pain when you get stunned.
After that he have no clones and mantra on cooldown you can return the favor.
Also in my opinion powercreep>bunkercreep.
When a player in counter strike kill the entire team,
its not because he use a faceroll weapon its because hes good.

Xaylin.1860:

I also want to point out that in video of the tournament we saw almost no stealth gameplay from the Mesmers although PU is another one of the things people complain about the most. Meaning: Every burst was pretty telegraphed. While I do agree that PU is rather off right now, it apparently – for me personally quite obviously – isn’t relevant or viable for high tier PvP despite being so out of line. Go figure.

So far I’ve seen mostly PU mesmers in the EU tournies, how is it not relevant?

Extreme.8350:

manarchon.2089:

The stealth buffing combined with burst buffing enabling to basically one shot you from stealth if you have under 20k hp is pretty kittening ridicilous.

There should be some cap how much dmg you can do with basically with one attack ( I count 2-3 clone hitting shatter from invis as such).

And its true its much easier to dominate a game with mesmer even if you suck and are slow old kitten like myself

I dont want nerfs but some minor adjustments would be in place.

You can counter it. with skills like endure pain when you get stunned.
After that he have no clones and mantra on cooldown you can return the favor.
Also in my opinion powercreep>bunkercreep.
When a player in counter strike kill the entire team,
its not because he use a faceroll weapon its because hes good.

Luckily everyone has Endure the Pain, Berserker Stance and Stability, right?

RIGHT?!

Jasher.6580:

Terrorsquad.4802:

top players MAINING MESMERS acknowledge this. Aswel as any other top tier players.

Pretty bold statement.

It’s not a bold statement.. Everyone says it on EU, dont know about NA ofcourse with only 1 team winning like…always.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Extreme.8350:

manarchon.2089:

The stealth buffing combined with burst buffing enabling to basically one shot you from stealth if you have under 20k hp is pretty kittening ridicilous.

There should be some cap how much dmg you can do with basically with one attack ( I count 2-3 clone hitting shatter from invis as such).

And its true its much easier to dominate a game with mesmer even if you suck and are slow old kitten like myself

I dont want nerfs but some minor adjustments would be in place.

You can counter it. with skills like endure pain when you get stunned.
After that he have no clones and mantra on cooldown you can return the favor.
Also in my opinion powercreep>bunkercreep.
When a player in counter strike kill the entire team,
its not because he use a faceroll weapon its because hes good.

Luckily everyone has Endure the Pain, Berserker Stance and Stability, right?

RIGHT?!

Everyone have skills to avoid damage except for necro because damage in deathshroud spills over to health if too high so before they had it too.
Everyone have skills to remove conditions and stunbreaks.
I barely played spvp at all 2 months prepatch because i was sick of bunkers.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Everyone says it on EU

Everyone huh? Define everyone and show me your proof that you are acting as a fair representation for the majority… sorry I mean the entirety of the EU player-base.

Extreme.8350:

love the tears sincerely ~mesmer

238 on you mes? lol

Before June 23rd patch, Mesmers weren’t exactly in the same position they are in right now. Back then mesmers were very susceptible to condis, bursts, thieves, and had very little choice. The June 23rd patch opened a lot of builds for mesmers, but no one had expected PU and mantra to be used competitively.

The problem that the majority of people address towards mesmer is the synergy of Mantra of Distraction and compounding suggestion. After channeling, it becomes insta cast stun with 5 sec cd. Basically there is no way to tell when will the mantra will be used. The second problem it brings is that other than being it insta cast, it is also an AOE with 1200 range. That is pretty kitten strong and could negate the channeling time.

Also the mantra channeling also gives 600 toughness, can be moved/teleported/stealthed while channeling, and are on short cooldown when you compare the skills to simliar to those of other professions. Also the synergy of domination trait that can be created within trait lines+ chaos lines is very strong.

The problems I find are that mantras are insta cast, has no tells, and can be casted during channeling other skills while having short CDs for its effects.

jportell.2197:

Extreme.8350:

love the tears sincerely ~mesmer

238 on you mes? lol

Extreme.8350:

Imma smurf my main is rank 80

My mesmer on main account were created 1047 days ago.

So when guardians or warriors have 2 on a team everything is fine but when it’s a Mesmer it’s now broken?

uhohhotdog.3598:

So when guardians or warriors have 2 on a team everything is fine but when it’s a Mesmer it’s now broken?

Were you not around when everyone complained about Warriors forever? Or are you just choosing to forget those times?

No, other “2 of X on every team” situations weren’t OK. No one ever said they were.

Lol. If you think mesmer is broken now your in for something much worse. The new traits for mesmer will let it shatter without losing illusions. In fact shatter will recast them possibly clipping the phantasm attack rate. HoT will make mesmer crazy damage wise.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Its faceroll and too strong, top players MAINING MESMERS acknowledge this. Aswel as any other top tier players. Why do u think some top teams r even running 2 mesmers?

I barely play mesmer but wow, Im boss and esports level now. With my what, 200-300 games or so? Obvious broken and faceroll or am I just THAT good?

It’s none of my concern why some team run 2 mesmers, 3 eles, 5 necros, or 4 rangers.

I don’t know if you’re good or bad, I honestly don’t care.

But I know one thing for sure and it’s a daily bread on forums – bad players whine for nerfs loudest and most often.

As you may call something OP within mesmer, it’s already been said and proven that’s not the only class that needs to be looked into.

At this moment every single class has something that makes it OP, or however you want to call it.

Disabling traits one by one only destroy balance further and annoy players who are more and more fed up with Anet’s Class Balance behavior and daily keep leaving Ranked and Unranked – and do dailies in Rankfarm games.

If Mantra Mesmer is so OP, then what is Static Engineer in PvP now?
Bounce 3~5k crits with 6 cd on it?
What about Guardian with torch, where burn apply is almost permanent and self sustain for Guardian only gets better and better with each balance update?
What about ele which burn wise is same as Guardian and sustain is not much worse?

Mantra build wasn’t even viable for such a long time, now it’s useful and dps wise and sustain wise bring Mesmer on pair to other classes.

Also, if like someone already said
- If a newbie rolls Mesmer and own an old player – shame for an old player.

If you play your class long enough and know how other classes work and how your own class work, how mechanics of maps and game work. And then comes some newbie who does play 20 matches with Mesmer and owns you like a baby, then certainly, we have L2P issue here.
Because Mesmer doesn’t have ability to eat 20k HP in one go alone.
Unlike some other classes.

Jasher.6580:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Everyone says it on EU

Everyone huh? Define everyone and show me your proof that you are acting as a fair representation for the majority… sorry I mean the entirety of the EU player-base.

I’m from EU, and I still dunno who are those TOP whatever he means.
If leaderboard or ESL table is equal to be Top then well, be my guest, I guess.

Tao.1234:

I’m from EU, and I still dunno who are those TOP whatever he means.

Probably because you’re a noname and not a single good player speaks with you I guess?

Laraley.7695:

So far I’ve seen mostly PU mesmers in the EU tournies, how is it not relevant?

You could at least have watched the video I was referring to.

Terrorsquad.4802:

Quite awkward that good mesmers are king while bad mesmers are..well..also king.. equal to good mesmers.. Obvious build issue?

Yeah, trouble is you’re wrong. I main mes and havent lost a match with a mesmer (or two, or three) on the other team yet. Why? Because skill level is real, and being a L2P issue, given that I’ve learnt to play Mesmer it’s easy to counteract, in particular, less seasoned Mesmers.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Quite awkward that good mesmers are king while bad mesmers are..well..also king.. equal to good mesmers.. Obvious build issue?

Yeah, trouble is you’re wrong. I main mes and havent lost a match with a mesmer (or two, or three) on the other team yet. Why? Because skill level is real, and being a L2P issue, given that I’ve learnt to play Mesmer it’s easy to counteract, in particular, less seasoned Mesmers.

Did you even understand what you quoted?
Also, i really doubt you 1v3 those mes. Probably got carried by your team. CG.

Cynz.9437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Terrorsquad.4802:

Quite awkward that good mesmers are king while bad mesmers are..well..also king.. equal to good mesmers.. Obvious build issue?

Yeah, trouble is you’re wrong. I main mes and havent lost a match with a mesmer (or two, or three) on the other team yet. Why? Because skill level is real, and being a L2P issue, given that I’ve learnt to play Mesmer it’s easy to counteract, in particular, less seasoned Mesmers.

Did you even understand what you quoted?
Also, i really doubt you 1v3 those mes. Probably got carried by your team. CG.

OP had also said (team with more mesmers wins- see below quote). So if reading comprehension is a concern of yours, you might want to go back and try to figure out why you read “1v3” in my post. Also, I don’t know what game you’re playing but yes, I agree, GW2 PvP is a team game. So I’m not sure why you’re getting prickly with (the perceived) idea that I was claiming some sort of solo 1v5 PvP victory. I mean, I don’t know what your games look like but my team have to play their part too in order for us to win.

Good luck with your games. I hope they don’t resemble your posting :/

Terrorsquad.4802:

At this moment, the teams with the most mesmers win.

His point was that mesmer is just too rewarding for players who play poorly. Ofc mes vets will be better than new mesmer players duhhh.

You didn’t quote part of the post where it said that team with most mes wins ( i don’t believe it personally because given coordinated teams, mes just can’t hold points).

CG, you are better than new mesmers, which you should be if you are really a vet, doesn’t change the fact that mes became too rewarding. Personally i think it is a bad thing. They will suffer from same issue as turret engis: every noob hopped on turret engi, got carried by it, then build got nerfed and suddenly we have army of engis with high rating that don’t know what to do and ruin games for other.

Reason why i said that you got carried is because you said you won every single game every though enemy had multiple mesmers. We do not win games by ourself, if 4 people on our team don’t do what they are supposed to do, you won’t win a single game no matter how amazing you are if enemy team is somehow competent. Basically your statement wasn’t holding any information related to the topic as reason why you won every single match is because your team played well and not only because you are so good and enemy mes weren’t.

Not sure what you are implying about games and my posting.

I’ll put it this way people.
If someone came to you pre patch and asked you
“Where do you believe we should strengthen the Mesmer”?
Would you reply,“give em more powerful shatter and more stealth”?
I wouldn’t.

Extreme.8350:

manarchon.2089:

The stealth buffing combined with burst buffing enabling to basically one shot you from stealth if you have under 20k hp is pretty kittening ridicilous.

There should be some cap how much dmg you can do with basically with one attack ( I count 2-3 clone hitting shatter from invis as such).

And its true its much easier to dominate a game with mesmer even if you suck and are slow old kitten like myself

I dont want nerfs but some minor adjustments would be in place.

You can counter it. with skills like endure pain when you get stunned.
After that he have no clones and mantra on cooldown you can return the favor.
Also in my opinion powercreep>bunkercreep.
When a player in counter strike kill the entire team,
its not because he use a faceroll weapon its because hes good.

He’s good yes. And there’s counterplay yes. But if enemy is in stealth for lets say 10+6+6 secs and for the last one with no sound effect it can be hard to see the burst coming to use your endure pain or block/whatever.

And he’s gonna stun/daze you from invis anyway prolly even 2-3 times + blinds which makes it even harder to time your stunbreak, invul, block. Even if you time it right he gets the burst in even if you break the stun.

A guardian is able to pull the defense off and maybe warrior if you have all your def off cd…. and after that you have all your defense but running used so gl running away from burst mesmer that has cripple on all gs skills…

It was the same with the engi grenadier 200% dmg from stealh. Only change was to hear the engi go into invis and count to two or three then use invul/blocks etc…..

Cogbyrn.7283:

uhohhotdog.3598:

So when guardians or warriors have 2 on a team everything is fine but when it’s a Mesmer it’s now broken?

Were you not around when everyone complained about Warriors forever? Or are you just choosing to forget those times?

No, other “2 of X on every team” situations weren’t OK. No one ever said they were.

There’s always going to be a profession that is considered stronger and is going to be more represented in games. That’s just the way it is. If you think that a particular profession or spec is OP then discuss that. Talking about how many of a profession is on each team is pointless.

It’s funny how people say mesmers aren’t op after patch when even backpack played it despite not having much experience and abjured went on to win l0l

Cogbyrn.7283:

echo.2053:

you mean after almost 3 years of rolling over mesmers players have to be told how to fight them? The same way its always been condi spam, hard counter teef, or pressuring mesmer to make a mistake.

I don’t live in the past. Sometimes changes occur in a game that alter the dynamic, and when a class emerges that appears very strong, it’s healthy to have a conversation about their weaknesses, especially if they are difficult to find. Also especially when the community won’t stop complaining about them. If you can’t have a good, honest conversation about weaknesses, maybe there’s a problem?

It took about 1-2 fights for me to see why everyone is up in arms. In one fight in particular, the Mesmer made a few clones, went into stealth within a second or two. I was stunned/immob’d out of stealth, shattered and blinded, and the Mesmer used Sword #2 to be invulnerable. A few seconds later the Mesmer went back into Stealth. The iZerker popped out (which doesn’t remove stealth, I believe), then more damage landed, a clone or two were created and the invuln shatter was used. I was blinded, the Mesmer was invulnerable again. A few seconds later, a bit after the invuln dropped, the Mesmer disappeared again. I honestly don’t remember if it was a blink up to a different level or of it was more stealth.

Over the course of about 16-20 seconds, I had maybe 1-2 solid seconds of actual opportunity to land abilities. By that time, the Mesmer could attempt another Shatter combo, which blinds, leaves the Mesmer invulnerable while slashing, and does thousands of damage.

Do I think Mesmers need to be changed because of it? No. Honestly, I was observing more than fighting, and I need more fights under my belt to get a feel for the cadence of the fight, when to use what abilities, etc. However, it felt pretty silly.

@Jasher: I appreciate the honest response. I’m a little skeptical about the difficulty of landing successful shatters, but this is probably a level of play thing. For the bottom 80%, I think leading with a free Mantra stun into a shatter combo almost guarantees it, which is part of the issue now.

The blinds, blocks, duration of stealths, power of shatters, and multiple invulnerabilities make me wonder more about the windows of opportunity to land anything (even condis, to which they are weak). When you play a class, you’re much more familiar with when you’re weak and when you aren’t, and maybe it’ll help people understand that there are more windows to strike than they think.

lol don’t live in the past such a cute statement <3. Until this patch mesmer had been exactly the same since game launch, what do you mean that you couldnt remember hitting single button to put a few conditions on a mesmer and /laugh as they helpessly keeled over from zero sustainability?

im rather interested on how your been fairing aginst teefs the entire time youve been playing the game as well, prolly not so well because of blinds and stealth huh XD

don’t get me wrong id love to see pu and torch get comepletely removed as they are just a crutch

ReaperJr.5967:

It’s funny how people say mesmers aren’t op after patch when even backpack played it despite not having much experience and abjured went on to win l0l

Thats my whole point.. NA + EU Go4 just proofs my point.

“But I know one thing for sure and it’s a daily bread on forums – bad players whine for nerfs loudest and most often.”

As opposed to the top tier players who have Grouch as a skype friend and make a list of bugs and fixes privately and keep a spreadsheet of them together like what Backpack showed on stream?

Both good and bad players do the same thing in terms of whining, the only difference the good players have anet Devs on speed dial via Skype to get their kitten done for them quicker.

Hmmmm…

We all know some of us are here just for the drama and entertainment -Grabs popcorn-

no nerf to amu stats, not back to slowpoke wars again…amu stats are perfect now

Terrorsquad.4802:

Morwath.9817:

SlayerSixx.5763:

They bring ONE mesmer and suddenly the class needs a nerf xD? We can’t count helseth’s squad either, since the man is an amazing mesmer with or without buffs.

Reminder: oRNG (team who used to play without Mesmer at all in the past) has won ESL in last week with double Mesmer comp.

^Exactly, team with most mesmers win now, quite obvious something is wrong.

Really? When teams brought two eles, two engis or two anythings, nothing was wrong?

Everyone knew things were wrong, top players acknowledged it but that doesn’t mean they wouldn’t use it. Just like they acknowledge and claim Mesmer’s ease of play is wrong but they still use it because it’s pvp. You want every advantage you can get if you’re trying to be the best. There’s no honor system to follow here.

echo.2053:

lol don’t live in the past such a cute statement <3. Until this patch mesmer had been exactly the same since game launch, what do you mean that you couldnt remember hitting single button to put a few conditions on a mesmer and /laugh as they helpessly keeled over from zero sustainability?

im rather interested on how your been fairing aginst teefs the entire time youve been playing the game as well, prolly not so well because of blinds and stealth huh XD

don’t get me wrong id love to see pu and torch get comepletely removed as they are just a crutch

Actually, I’m mostly here to watch s/tPvP balance discussions happen, and weigh in here and there when people seem to make logical gaffes. I’ve been a WvW solo roamer since the dawn of my GW2 time, first as a Warrior and then as a Power Necro. PU-plexity Mesmers out in the open world, and D/P Thieves in particular (though one D/D Thief knew exactly how to fight a Necro, and it felt impossible to deal with his patience) were always rough. I think Stealth is a poorly designed mechanic, or at least the way they give it to certain classes is poorly designed, but Stealth discussions often fall to the wayside when it comes to s/tPvP balance. And rightfully so.

I don’t want Mesmers to be underpowered. I’m not even sure that they’re overpowered. I just understand where people are coming from when they get frustrated, because it’s just blind after block after huge shatter damage after stealth after invuln after stealth after invuln. With dodging in there as well, the window of opportunity seems really, really slim.

Not that it isn’t there. I’m sure it is. Delay long enough and cooldowns run out, then you can apply appropriate pressure. But if that takes 16+ seconds of surviving to start to pull off, that seems a bit extreme.

I’m mostly thinking out loud, if you can’t tell. Mesmers really might be fine. Even Burning might be fine, while class access is what needs the fix. I just like to challenge people to see how they respond, as a solid argument can withstand scrutiny. Jasher started that argument very nicely.

Zord.6130:

Probably because you’re a noname and not a single good player speaks with you I guess?

I prefer to be a “noname” enjoying the game how it is than constantly repeating something someone else said and believe it’s the key to success.

‘_’