Guild Wars 2

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

pathetic thread .

and condi spam LoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL

mesmers have and only have condi burst ,the sustain condi pressure is lower than most condi specs in this game currently .

guys to be honest , if you could play shatter mes or condi shatter mes (later is easier )at decent level (not troll with new comers ), stream it .

Also lets face the fact saying stealth double MOA in a tream fight is broken, is like saying the focus fire with two long elite skills and many setups is broken .follow your guys logic , we must nerf focus fire and elite skills spam ,so lets make a rule only one guy in team fight could use elite otherwise anet must be exploded , is this right ?

I agree that the thread is too much but there is legitimacy in pointing the Moa.

It is easily the strongest elite in the game and you absolutely don’t need stealth to land it against most professions since it is not very obvious to see when mesmer does it unless you really stare at him hard. Specially in the chaos of battle. And the duration…
You basically remove all of a players skills from him for what seems like an eternity. No more stun breaks, no more condi cleanse. If the mesmer is on TS with others it’s a death sentence that he can apply twice. It completely wins fight without much you can do about it. We are FAR from most other elites. Very far.

Try to play mes , then you will find out its really not that way .

first of all as you mentioned its in chaos of battle ,so the safest way to double moa with f5 is hitting f5 when casting moa(unless you have magic to keep illusion alive ) ,not hard i can say .but in practical fight , it means you cant use false cast trick at all which is another reason ppl rage about moa .
and mao is not a quick spell so mes has to be really close to you even in a team fight ,otherwise dodging it is so easy ,or it could hit wrong target which will be a waste in most cases .

THEN YOU CAN SEE A MES STAND BESIDE YOU CASTING 1 s LONG SPELL AND ALSO HALFWAY GLOWING DUE TO F5 SHATTER

now tell me ,would you like to think its something dangerous you should avoid ?

As for other situations , i think from this extreme example , you can see how much effort mes has to make to pull off a moa kill .

“You basically remove all of a players skills "you actually have 2 dodges ,a evade skill ,a short dash and more stats .ALso one important thing ,most of your traits work in moa form .

So guys , lets face this , i dont even mind nerf moa or change it completely since it can easily be a mess once anet finally gives mes reasonable buff .

But nerf one of a few useful skill mes actually brings to the pvp team for the complaints from people who has little understanding of this game and mes class .
NO WAY

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility?

people got panic in moa form .this sentence i think has been told from day one .
anybody here remember that long evading dash moa 5 is ,and how useless moa was with it ?

sometimes i do have pride for playing mes in gw2 since we ctually have to read the skills and learn tricks ,felt same way about engi ,but sadly so many passive traits made engi feel cheaper .

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. And other professions can’t double elite even if they are weaker.

No you dont get it , i didnt compare them , i gave that example (necro actually doesnt need consume the lifeforce to get lichform but mes has to shatter to use f5)
to say DOUBLE MOA TOOK EFFORT TO PULL OF FOR AN ACTUAL KILL WITH MANY SETUP AND ANY OTHER CLASSES ELITES DONT NEED THAT TO WORK AT FIRST PLACE .

musu.9205:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

pathetic thread .

and condi spam LoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooL

mesmers have and only have condi burst ,the sustain condi pressure is lower than most condi specs in this game currently .

guys to be honest , if you could play shatter mes or condi shatter mes (later is easier )at decent level (not troll with new comers ), stream it .

Also lets face the fact saying stealth double MOA in a tream fight is broken, is like saying the focus fire with two long elite skills and many setups is broken .follow your guys logic , we must nerf focus fire and elite skills spam ,so lets make a rule only one guy in team fight could use elite otherwise anet must be exploded , is this right ?

I agree that the thread is too much but there is legitimacy in pointing the Moa.

It is easily the strongest elite in the game and you absolutely don’t need stealth to land it against most professions since it is not very obvious to see when mesmer does it unless you really stare at him hard. Specially in the chaos of battle. And the duration…
You basically remove all of a players skills from him for what seems like an eternity. No more stun breaks, no more condi cleanse. If the mesmer is on TS with others it’s a death sentence that he can apply twice. It completely wins fight without much you can do about it. We are FAR from most other elites. Very far.

Try to play mes , then you will find out its really not that way .

first of all as you mentioned its in chaos of battle ,so the safest way to double moa with f5 is hitting f5 when casting moa(unless you have magic to keep illusion alive ) ,not hard i can say .but in practical fight , it means you cant use false cast trick at all which is another reason ppl rage about moa .
and mao is not a quick spell so mes has to be really close to you even in a team fight ,otherwise dodging it is so easy ,or it could hit wrong target which will be a waste in most cases .

THEN YOU CAN SEE A MES STAND BESIDE YOU CASTING 1 s LONG SPELL AND ALSO HALFWAY GLOWING DUE TO F5 SHATTER

now tell me ,would you like to think its something dangerous you should avoid ?

As for other situations , i think from this extreme example , you can see how much effort mes has to make to pull off a moa kill .

“You basically remove all of a players skills "you actually have 2 dodges ,a evade skill ,a short dash and more stats .ALso one important thing ,most of your traits work in moa form .

So guys , lets face this , i dont even mind nerf moa or change it completely since it can easily be a mess once anet finally gives mes reasonable buff .

But nerf one of a few useful skill mes actually brings to the pvp team for the complaints from people who has little understanding of this game and mes class .
NO WAY

First of all, I do play a mesmer too. I know perfectly well it takes one sec to cast it and nobody who is aware of you trying it will let you do it. However, if you stop avoiding the point I made and objectively compare that skill to other elites it doesn’t take long to get how much more potent it is than the rest. And by a long shot.

The truth is, speaking as a victim of Moas, when you are the focus of many opponents staying focused on what a chronomancer does (or sometimes 2) is simply not possible. You also very often had to blew cool downs and endurance to survive the other opponents too. If the mesmer is on ts with his team its not hard at all to get a gg and the impact of the other team is often spectacular now that you removed their support from them. Well used that skill is easily the strongest elite of all. Easily.

No, mesmer doesn’t need a nerf overall, like at all, but that elite might have to get looked at. 10 seconds of that is just way too long… and you get to do it twice? Let’s call it like it is please.

Massive NERF? Already happened twice since HoT.

Why do you QQ about condi mesmer when the hybrid version is now meta?
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

Well… OP do you play Necro and don’t know how to play versus mesmer?

Heard the new mesmer build is meta because necro can’t CORRUPT them without dying to confusions…

musu.9205:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility?

people got panic in moa form .this sentence i think has been told from day one .
anybody here remember that long evading dash moa 5 is ,and how useless moa was with it ?

sometimes i do have pride for playing mes in gw2 since we ctually have to read the skills and learn tricks ,felt same way about engi ,but sadly so many passive traits made engi feel cheaper .

Calm down a bit and please stop trying too hard painting others as ignorant. I didn’t forgot anything at all. I’m playing that game from the first days of GW1 including a mesmer.

You seem to forget that you aren’t alone in pvp. If the mesmer is alone, Moa isn’t too bad at all. Heck, I’ve killed my fair share of mesmers while Moaed. However, add just one other player and you better pray because even that 5 sec dash won’t save you in most case from that 10 sec condition if you are facing an organized team.

Condi mesmers definitely needs a nerf. 8 stacks of confusion, torment and bleeding along with stuns in an instant is just lame. Infact all condi builds needs major shaving (includin reaper)

On the other hand, Moa is fine since it has a high CD and can be blocked but activation time should be increased. 1 sec is too low for such a powerful skill.

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

Condi mesmers definitely needs a nerf. 8 stacks of confusion, torment and bleeding along with stuns in an instant is just lame. Infact all condi builds needs major shaving (includin reaper)

On the other hand, Moa is fine since it has a high CD and can be blocked but activation time should be increased. 1 sec is too low for such a powerful skill.

They aren’t worse than pretty much any other condi professions in that regard. Necro is far worse if you ask me. And conditions can be cleanse and the attacks making them dodged just like for the Moa.

Moa having a long CD is normal since it’s an elite. In that regard you have to compare it with the other elites to make your mind about it. And it can be attempted twice with chrono. 1 sec skills are not slow at all unless you fire it carelessly and you are in a duel. The animation is also far from being that obvious compared to many others and stealth can make it irrelevant anyway.

MoA and Double MoA are the main issues

Little suggestion for fix: You can jump when you’re MoA

This could have more impact on your jumple puzzle skill and could help you surviving when you’re moa.

hint, moa has skills, use them…

Coming from someone who doesn’t pvp with my Mes much, I don’t think it’s all that OP. Very strong in the right hands especially coordinated in voip. Maybe the transform could be a bit lower or have stab work against it. Anything more of a change and it would ruin the skill.

These “NERF too OP!” threads are old. I think more intelligent discussions would come out of threads that didn’t start off so whiney for lack of a better term. Not taking a shot at the OP specifically, that’s just how it looks. Maybe try “I’m having trouble with x build/skill, is it me or does it need a re-work?” for example. Massive Nerf, Too OP! Ugh. It starts the thread off with a really negative vibe. And puts the ppl who main that profession in defense mode. Maybe even the devs (if they even read those kinds of threads).

azyume.6321:

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Oh really? As a warrior main, how many condi cleanse do I have?
Shouts with soldier rune? Then you can’t take endure pain/zerker stance in this meta against power creeps and condi application far exceeds whatever a warrior can cleanse in a given point of time.
Cleansin Ire? Yeah, blind on shatter and go invisible and laugh at the warrior while he performs the burst attack lol.
Berserker stance? Stay invisible for 9 sec and then bomb him with 8 stacks each of confusion, torment, bleed, etc.

Find a thief running the proper build…poop on condi Mesmer.

Mogar.9216:

hint, moa has skills, use them…

No, really? thanks for the ground breaking advise… Now can you go read what ppl have said and actually counter their arguments if you can? Thanks.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

azyume.6321:

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Oh really? As a warrior main, how many condi cleanse do I have?
Shouts with soldier rune? Then you can’t take endure pain/zerker stance in this meta against power creeps and condi application far exceeds whatever a warrior can cleanse in a given point of time.
Cleansin Ire? Yeah, blind on shatter and go invisible and laugh at the warrior while he performs the burst attack lol.
Berserker stance? Stay invisible for 9 sec and then bomb him with 8 stacks each of confusion, torment, bleed, etc.

It’s more a matter of war always having been a poor choice vs a mesmer than the mesmer being too strong though.

NiloyBardhan.9170:

azyume.6321:

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Oh really? As a warrior main, how many condi cleanse do I have?
Shouts with soldier rune? Then you can’t take endure pain/zerker stance in this meta against power creeps and condi application far exceeds whatever a warrior can cleanse in a given point of time.
Cleansin Ire? Yeah, blind on shatter and go invisible and laugh at the warrior while he performs the burst attack lol.
Berserker stance? Stay invisible for 9 sec and then bomb him with 8 stacks each of confusion, torment, bleed, etc.

You have the cleanse, if don’t use it, is your decision. Can’t cry about conditions when you use zero cleanse. Also, pvp is a team thing, condichrono is almost close to useless in a team fight, if you are putting yourself in a situation with 1v1 against a condi profession when you, yourself takes zero cleanse, well, that’s not a good idea.

However, my advise still stands. I have beat condichrono’s with warrior in WvW, have friends who had as well, and there isn’t something more broken than that regarding conditions. Go check it out then will see PvP isn’t as bad as people cry out to be and very much counter-able.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Mogar.9216:

hint, moa has skills, use them…

No, really? thanks for the ground breaking advise… Now can you go read what ppl have said and actually counter their arguments if you can? Thanks.

moa 5 is a 3/4 sec evade supper speed flee + moa 2 a leap ground target . Between the 2 of them you should have no problem getting out from focus fire and get behind something to los people. I get moaed all the time and rarely die and I moa ppl all the time 9/10 times ppl die because they panic.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

azyume.6321:

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Oh really? As a warrior main, how many condi cleanse do I have?
Shouts with soldier rune? Then you can’t take endure pain/zerker stance in this meta against power creeps and condi application far exceeds whatever a warrior can cleanse in a given point of time.
Cleansin Ire? Yeah, blind on shatter and go invisible and laugh at the warrior while he performs the burst attack lol.
Berserker stance? Stay invisible for 9 sec and then bomb him with 8 stacks each of confusion, torment, bleed, etc.

It’s more a matter of war always having been a poor choice vs a mesmer than the mesmer being too strong though.

Then where’s the balance? And it doesn’t negate the fact the condi application of certain classes far exceeds condi removal of certain classes and if those classes indeed go for full condi cleanse then he won’t have enough offense to kill the condi spammer anyway. Mesmers (even pre HoT) and reapers (currently) are most notorious for this.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility?

people got panic in moa form .this sentence i think has been told from day one .
anybody here remember that long evading dash moa 5 is ,and how useless moa was with it ?

sometimes i do have pride for playing mes in gw2 since we ctually have to read the skills and learn tricks ,felt same way about engi ,but sadly so many passive traits made engi feel cheaper .

Calm down a bit and please stop trying too hard painting others as ignorant. I didn’t forgot anything at all. I’m playing that game from the first days of GW1 including a mesmer.

You seem to forget that you aren’t alone in pvp. If the mesmer is alone, Moa isn’t too bad at all. Heck, I’ve killed my fair share of mesmers while Moaed. However, add just one other player and you better pray because even that 5 sec dash won’t save you in most case from that 10 sec condition if you are facing an organized team.

well forum ate my post so i have make it shorter this time .

first : in moa form ,you can escape .and most of your traits do work as usual .and lets be honest ,auto condi cleanse traits are given like candies after hot .only mes ,druid and thief cant have them now ,and we dont cast moa on a thief , no need to say why here since you claim that you played mes from day one .

About druid tho ,yes they will have almost zero condi cleanse in moa form .

second :focus fire is needed to kill certain build in moa form .its called team work .you cant nerf team work you know that ,right ?

if its really that hard to read in team fight , i think anything from moa skill itself cant help but we need a clearer battle field in pvp as a whole balance QOL.
Its not moas problem , so dont fix something that isnt broken especial when other classes have literally instantly casting heal or cc .

Or let me give you another idea , how about we remove moa entirely and then make mes on par with other classes in all game mode .

i wont mind that at all .since i always consider using moa in 1v1 is a kitteneating .some skill that would be taken into mesmer shatter rotation will be best.

Mogar.9216:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Mogar.9216:

hint, moa has skills, use them…

No, really? thanks for the ground breaking advise… Now can you go read what ppl have said and actually counter their arguments if you can? Thanks.

moa 5 is a 3/4 sec evade supper speed flee + moa 2 a leap ground target . Between the 2 of them you should have no problem getting out from focus fire and get behind something to los people. I get moaed all the time and rarely die and I moa ppl all the time 9/10 times ppl die because they panic.

Now for a more realistic version of how it often goes in pvp these days…

You get Moaed and your friendly opponent necro (they are so rare) mark the ground with unbloackable marks that freeze you while you are poisoned and bleeding to death without condi cleanse for 10 sec… and that is if nobody else interfere.

If condi bombed in Moa your opponents could let you go wherever you want knowing you won’t live the duration of the transformation (I would know believe me).

azyume.6321:

NiloyBardhan.9170:

azyume.6321:

lol what?

Condichrono in PvP is so underpowered compared to WvW. If you are having trouble, go to WvW and find a good mesmer to duel. After that, will see how easy is to sustain and kill them in PvP with the proper tools, aka condition cleanse.

Oh really? As a warrior main, how many condi cleanse do I have?
Shouts with soldier rune? Then you can’t take endure pain/zerker stance in this meta against power creeps and condi application far exceeds whatever a warrior can cleanse in a given point of time.
Cleansin Ire? Yeah, blind on shatter and go invisible and laugh at the warrior while he performs the burst attack lol.
Berserker stance? Stay invisible for 9 sec and then bomb him with 8 stacks each of confusion, torment, bleed, etc.

You have the cleanse, if don’t use it, is your decision. Can’t cry about conditions when you use zero cleanse. Also, pvp is a team thing, condichrono is almost close to useless in a team fight, if you are putting yourself in a situation with 1v1 against a condi profession when you, yourself takes zero cleanse, well, that’s not a good idea.

However, my advise still stands. I have beat condichrono’s with warrior in WvW, have friends who had as well, and there isn’t something more broken than that regarding conditions. Go check it out then will see PvP isn’t as bad as people cry out to be and very much counter-able.

Did you even read what I wrote? Cleansing once doesn’t stop the condi applier from spamming it again (not to mention mesmers can burst condis from STEALTH). Condi cleanse are usually on high CDs whereas condi applications are not. Add to that, condi cleanse is very limited to certain classes (warrs for eg.)

Yes, I’d love too see a video of your warrior ripping apart a condi mesmer (provided the mesmer isn’t a first timer). Thanks!

Wow, even though there are so many truly broken and kittenedly easy to play builds around right now people still complain about mesmer, I would like to say that I can’t believe it but sadly I know of the kitten most of the forum members spew in these absurd threads.

musu.9205:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility?

people got panic in moa form .this sentence i think has been told from day one .
anybody here remember that long evading dash moa 5 is ,and how useless moa was with it ?

sometimes i do have pride for playing mes in gw2 since we ctually have to read the skills and learn tricks ,felt same way about engi ,but sadly so many passive traits made engi feel cheaper .

Calm down a bit and please stop trying too hard painting others as ignorant. I didn’t forgot anything at all. I’m playing that game from the first days of GW1 including a mesmer.

You seem to forget that you aren’t alone in pvp. If the mesmer is alone, Moa isn’t too bad at all. Heck, I’ve killed my fair share of mesmers while Moaed. However, add just one other player and you better pray because even that 5 sec dash won’t save you in most case from that 10 sec condition if you are facing an organized team.

well forum ate my post so i have make it shorter this time .

first : in moa form ,you can escape .and most of your traits do work as usual .and lets be honest ,auto condi cleanse traits are given like candies after hot .only mes ,druid and thief cant have them now ,and we dont cast moa on a thief , no need to say why here since you claim that you played mes from day one .

About druid tho ,yes they will have almost zero condi cleanse in moa form .

second :focus fire is needed to kill certain build in moa form .its called team work .you cant nerf team work you know that ,right ?

if its really that hard to read in team fight , i think anything from moa skill itself cant help but we need a clearer battle field in pvp as a whole balance QOL.
Its not moas problem , so dont fix something that isnt broken especial when other classes have literally instantly casting heal or cc .

Or let me give you another idea , how about we remove moa entirely and then make mes on par with other classes in all game mode .

i wont mind that at all .since i always consider using moa in 1v1 is a kitteneating .some skill that would be taken into mesmer shatter rotation will be best.

Straw men, straw men everywhere…

Where did I said I wanted, or even implied, that I would want to nerf team work? I merely said COMPARED to the other elites, it IS much stronger and that with a team on TS that skill is monstrously efficient. Much more than the other elites.

Also, you speak to me as if I was in favor of a mesmer nerf. I clearly said I was not in this very thread. I merely pointed ONE elite skill. BTW, I would totally be in favor of Mesmer getting something in return if they ever nerf that skill. I’m not anti mesmer. I just don’t like lying.

I’ve read people here crying for condimesmer… When the “top condi” that a mesmer can apply in this meta are torment and confusion, two condition that you can just easly avoid.
You can avoid use skills when you have 16 confusion stacks on you, and you can avoid running like a rabbit when 10 torment on you.
..Or you can just cleanse them out.

Really there is people who cry about condimesmer but find condinecro complitely ok?

Just a l2p issue here, not else. And still not get the point about why you guys are still talking about.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

TW – if your team escape the zone then you lost the cap ans the pressure is on your team to decap again.
again no one will use doable moa as it would be waste of 150 sec skill. good mesmer will save it for the next fight.

also as you see above most ppl use F5 just for moa as its hard to create 2 illusion in group fight and if you see them you will know something gonna happen and dodge or evade. and again when you moa team needs to support you.
you know how many times i got pressure and my pug team didnt support me for 10 sec and i used all my stun break and cleanse and heal. the pug wnet for the kill and didnt see i was stomp and then lost the fight. all of this without moa.
as you can see its group fight and not many 1v1’s

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

TW – if your team escape the zone then you lost the cap ans the pressure is on your team to decap again.
again no one will use doable moa as it would be waste of 150 sec skill. good mesmer will save it for the next fight.

also as you see above most ppl use F5 just for moa as its hard to create 2 illusion in group fight and if you see them you will know something gonna happen and dodge or evade. and again when you moa team needs to support you.
you know how many times i got pressure and my pug team didnt support me for 10 sec and i used all my stun break and cleanse and heal. the pug wnet for the kill and didnt see i was stomp and then lost the fight. all of this without moa.
as you can see its group fight and not many 1v1’s

Again, I totally agree that this skill is very strong. But I do not agree it has as big a strategic value as a well placed Moa.

Beside, not everyone has to stop contesting the cap for the duration of the spell (and some cap like Cemetery are too big to cover with one AoE).

messiah.1908:

wow guys just wow. no shame at all….

MOA

ok when i played before HOT condi shatter which basically didnt change much beside CS ppl say useless build. i used moa and ppl say useless build as with condi you cant kill moa like power mesmer does. so when power shatter turned you moa almost no QQ was made about it.
now ppl complain cause the ability to doable moa. fact is good player will NEVER doable moa as its 180 sec skill (150 alacrity). when i doable moa its means probably the game is over so i just want to use the skill for the fun of it.

moa has dodges and evade skill which can put you in safe place or LOS place.
also moa can be evaded. yes its hard mid fight so if your ele ally just stick with you and heal you, you should be fine. or engi stealth you etc..
i dueld mesmer in team fight and their moa only hits me 30% of the time and the rest i died only few times cause no endurance. is it op no. is it L2P yes . is it bad allies who wont support you yes.

CONDITIONS

mtd was nerfed
confusion hasnt change a bit (beside mistrust which only helseth use it atm)
so why didnt you complain about it 1 year ago…
with only 2 conditions mainly which does dmg you cant control them?
with burn guard with 1 condition can you?
beside shatters, the condi shatter dont do much dmg directly so save dodge for shatters. or blind or evade or run further till they explode.

compare to necro chill spamm and boon rip – common….

i see ppl with 16 confusion attack like crazy or with 10 torment running what do you expect. they will die. and who 16 confusion and 10 torment. they didnt learn to dodge or evade or cleanse. they didnt learn condi build is like sustain build so over time mesmer has the upper hand so learn when to disengage.

i can ensure you

remove portal and moa and you wont see mesmer at all
nerf moa to 5 sec reduce cd to 90 sec. it will be usless as ppl will now use doable moa to get to 10 sec moa as it used to be… and then you see more QQ
also most of the time moa dies cause of burst from full party and not just 1v1. you only moa 1v1 necros as they can transfer condi to you (OP QQQQQQQQ nerf it. kidding) or if you fight versus ranger 1v1 to finish the job fast has he can sustain longer (QQQQQQQQQQ OPopOPop NERF NERF)

again

if you doable moa once know this. this mesmer is nube and easy kill as for 2 min you have enough time to kill him and he will be almost useless in team fight

Yeah, everything messiah said. Can’t really add more to that.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

TW – if your team escape the zone then you lost the cap ans the pressure is on your team to decap again.
again no one will use doable moa as it would be waste of 150 sec skill. good mesmer will save it for the next fight.

also as you see above most ppl use F5 just for moa as its hard to create 2 illusion in group fight and if you see them you will know something gonna happen and dodge or evade. and again when you moa team needs to support you.
you know how many times i got pressure and my pug team didnt support me for 10 sec and i used all my stun break and cleanse and heal. the pug wnet for the kill and didnt see i was stomp and then lost the fight. all of this without moa.
as you can see its group fight and not many 1v1’s

Again, I totally agree that this skill is very strong. But I do not agree it has as big a strategic value as a well placed Moa.

Beside, not everyone has to stop contesting the cap for the duration of the spell (and some cap like Cemetery are too big to cover with one AoE).

same with moa in cemetery – run to stairs LOS and jump down again los – wow 10 sec pass and you are fine while the team didnt target the moa and the mesmer lost 90 sec cd skill…. OR you get moa and stay on the point attacking the mesmer and die in 5 sec….
same with engi and hammer – you dont take stun break or just have used them all and still thinking you can be mid fight. the engi aoe chain stun you and you down in 3 sec… is it op .. no

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

messiah.1908:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

musu.9205:

SkyShroud.2865:

Alphabet.7392:

SkyShroud.2865:

if it can be counter play, it isnt broken, isnt it?

something with counterplay can still be broken my friend

what does that even mean? that doesnt make much logical sense.

To be honest something with counterplay but only few counterplay or being high reward low effort ,or too hard to counter but too easy to pull , that thing can be broken .

But back to topic , moa itself has many counterplays , also harder to pull off on a mes (on an engi it could be far easier ),you can counter it easily with all classes .
So It is powerful but balanced.

then we have double moa :think about this one ,now if a necro can consume his lifeforce then use his elite lich form, cast 1 s skill in lich form , and then call target for your team to focus fire,and that necro finally kill some tank build .
and btw mes double moa is harder to pull off than the example i made above since illusion dies to random hit in team fight so easily .

Be fair, compare any other elite to Moa and tell me it’s in line with other elites? The other elite too you can counter (a lot easier most of the time) and their effect is FAR less important on most any battle. Heck, when you Moa a tornado or a Lich you not only counter that elite you also turn the table on the poor guy who also invested his elite. An other professions can’t double elite even if weaker.

perma stealth engi who can get heal as you can see him using his heal. and also res etc.. OP and basicaly save the engi in this meta

mesmer theme is to control ppl . moa control you. dont fight as moa just run away to LOS. so many places in pvp maps which save you if you just LOS.

believe me TIMEWARP is much OP than moa (with good group) as it control larger area and you are slow with the whole team and you can doable it (20 sec). fact is not many use it atm so they dont scream OP (yet)

I do not deny other elite can be powerful and useful but none has as profound an impact on a player and a team as Moa does most of the time.

If you face a foe you identify to be the pillar of the team all you have to do is Moa that pillar for the team to crumble. And you get to have 2 shots at it him… Yes time warp is very powerful (and still a mesmer elite btw), but at least other players are not utterly powerless in front of it and can escape the zone and still retain their skills.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Humility?

people got panic in moa form .this sentence i think has been told from day one .
anybody here remember that long evading dash moa 5 is ,and how useless moa was with it ?

sometimes i do have pride for playing mes in gw2 since we ctually have to read the skills and learn tricks ,felt same way about engi ,but sadly so many passive traits made engi feel cheaper .

Calm down a bit and please stop trying too hard painting others as ignorant. I didn’t forgot anything at all. I’m playing that game from the first days of GW1 including a mesmer.

You seem to forget that you aren’t alone in pvp. If the mesmer is alone, Moa isn’t too bad at all. Heck, I’ve killed my fair share of mesmers while Moaed. However, add just one other player and you better pray because even that 5 sec dash won’t save you in most case from that 10 sec condition if you are facing an organized team.

well forum ate my post so i have make it shorter this time .

first : in moa form ,you can escape .and most of your traits do work as usual .and lets be honest ,auto condi cleanse traits are given like candies after hot .only mes ,druid and thief cant have them now ,and we dont cast moa on a thief , no need to say why here since you claim that you played mes from day one .

About druid tho ,yes they will have almost zero condi cleanse in moa form .

second :focus fire is needed to kill certain build in moa form .its called team work .you cant nerf team work you know that ,right ?

if its really that hard to read in team fight , i think anything from moa skill itself cant help but we need a clearer battle field in pvp as a whole balance QOL.
Its not moas problem , so dont fix something that isnt broken especial when other classes have literally instantly casting heal or cc .

Or let me give you another idea , how about we remove moa entirely and then make mes on par with other classes in all game mode .

i wont mind that at all .since i always consider using moa in 1v1 is a kitteneating .some skill that would be taken into mesmer shatter rotation will be best.

Straw men, straw men everywhere…

Where did I said I wanted, or even implied, that I would want to nerf team work? I merely said COMPARED to the other elites, it IS much stronger and that with a team on TS that skill is monstrously efficient. Much more than the other elites.

Also, you speak to me as if I was in favor of a mesmer nerf. I clearly said I was not in this very thread. I merely pointed ONE elite skill. BTW, I would totally be in favor of Mesmer getting something in return if they ever nerf that skill. I’m not anti mesmer. I just don’t like lying.

Lets make this clear

moa is strong itself ,but only seems be best elite when using it with team work while mes makes much more effort comparing to other elite skills which are usually straight forward .

its simply different than other elites in a way .just like mes ,but yes this makes it harder to balance especial combined with other unique stuff mes does
but let us check the reality:
in 1v1 it wont kill many builds with current mes viable build .So the strength of it only really lie on team fight which isnt true for most elites (btw i would say war banner is on par with moa too but far easier to use ,but less flexible )beside engi stealth gyro that op mess lol can be used in all situation without much drawback .
some non elites skills do things like this too : like S&R from ranger , mes portal ,

the real question is "Does gw2 need skill like this for more teamplay but really powerful when pull off "

for me the answer is YES

And all issue you mentioned so far :
double moa: laughable
cant see moa coming in team fight : it has more to do with current animation and effects from other skills in pvp . nothing to do with moa itself since it has clear casting animation and long casting time .
cant escape from mes +his teammater : moa skill 2 + 5 and your dodges and your traits .two mesmers with meta build really cant chain stun on you to prevent you escaping .So if mes + some other classes chain CC on you in moa form . should it be better to look into other classes than moa ?

Btw partly more people got annoying by moa is the fact hot introduced the more power creep into the game .

Now , if you are in 10s moa form ,others could do much more damage and cc and condition on you than before HOT .

So nerf other classes damage and cc application first , then see if how moa remains .

This thread exemplifies the history of Mesmer in GW2:

1. Mesmer is not meta in competitive play
2. Mesmer has builds that steamroll bad players
3. Bad players get steamrolled and come to the forums to whine about it
4. Mesmer gets nerfed again
5. Mesmer goes from not meta to garbage in competitive play

Here’s to hoping Anet ignores the baddies and doesn’t execute point 4.

I would buy gems if they delete moa and portal.

Might give the balance team a chance to see how the rest of the class is rather than relying on those two crutches…

Fay.2357:

This thread exemplifies the history of Mesmer in GW2:

1. Mesmer is not meta in competitive play
2. Mesmer has builds that steamroll bad players
3. Bad players get steamrolled and come to the forums to whine about it
4. Mesmer gets nerfed again
5. Mesmer goes from not meta to garbage in competitive play

Here’s to hoping Anet ignores the baddies and doesn’t execute point 4.

well you are too reasonable for the forum , you know that right ?

people in this pathetic thread directly asked why mes is still “viable” in current meta when played by far better player with full team work around since mes got heavy nerf times since hot .they answered themselves : mes must get massive nerf again since it seems viable .

At this point so few mes are actually playing .so they entirely skipped your first 3 points ,what left in their unreasonable mind is pure hate for god knows reason .

and btw balance team leader is Karl who made those +30% damage balance giving to ele ofc lol

lol, I can die a happy man now, cuz I’ve definitely seen it all! More Mesmer nerf cries! Hilarious.

Hm, lemme see, currently we have a team make up consisting of nearly 50% Necros. I’m sure that’s because they’re worse than Mesmers, and because Mesmers are obviously easier to play too! Sound logic!

So after Necro, Rambo Revenant, and the surely perfectly balanced DH & Scrapper, we still tend to see at least as many Thieves, Eles, and even Rangers as Mesmers, quite probably more actually.

So yeah that Condie Shatter Mesmer is squarely in the bottom 50% of most popular classes, but surely that’s because it’s simply too easy to play and grossly OPd on top! No one would want to play that combination in competitive PvP, now would they?

You guys are almost kinda cute when you get in a sewing circle, and share your creative and highly unbiased balance ideas amongst each other like this. What’s next up, Warrior nerfs? Ranger nerfs? lol!

Cry me a river about Moa. The only reason Mesmers are using it now is because their offense has literally been nerfed into the ground. It was hardly even used for the years that it’s stayed exactly the same as it is now, even post HoT/CS prior to the last round of crippling Mesmer nerfs. With Alacrity having literally been nerfed completely out of PvP, you kinda have to laugh at the notion of nerfing CS/F5!

What exactly is left of Mesmers Elite spec after that? So everyone else gets massive power-creep, and Mesmers got zilch! Zero! A Chrono Power Shatter Mesmer does actually less damage than a core Shatter Mesmer! Now who else can say that about their Elite spec? (Then there was that bit about “compensation” for getting an OH weapon…wow, be still my beating heart! Some compensation…NERFED!)

Never mind the numerous hard CC abilities on classes that can actually deliver huge spike damage on top, no we should nerf Mesmers Moa that allows you to move, dodge, gives you an escape ability, and actually allows you to attack doing quite significant damage. Again, amazing balancing logic in that…

You guys are a hoot. Play it, record it, and show us how good that Mesmer is working out for you. No! No! I know you’re going to keep playing your Necros, and that’s why we gonna keep bringing Moa…because it’s the only effective counter we have. I’m sure it’s frustrating being the #1 Moa target, but you know, that’s what you get for being cancer to the current meta. You are the priority target, so it’s no surprise that you hate Moa. :P

lol its hard to play! you cant nerf it!

When you get a good mesmer in your team its basically a carried freepip.

About the double moas, lol at the target killing themselves while trying to los dodging and using the moa skills. This elite skill is the only one that live up to that old elite skill concept of being gamebreaking, as in turning the tables.

Btw necros may be cancer faceroll right now but they still die within 2 random hard ccs. Moa is overkill againts a necro.

i lol’d so hard. mesmer has got nerfs ever since the traits changed in anticipation of hot. but lets ignore they changed how burn works making torch deal 1/3 of its original dmg, lets ignore mtd being nerfed by 50%, lets ignore the wells being useless, ignore the shield nerfs because of pve saying it took to long to make the phanto, lets ignore choas armor nerf, ignore how squishy clones are despite them being out source of damage, ignore how graphically obvious our shatters are and how easy to avoid they are and the fact any circle on the floor will stop it getting to you, ignore that alacrity was nerfed and there was no cd reduction to compensate, because you know what mesmers op because the necro used shroud and 5% hp and got moad and now hes kittened off as the other team played well and jumped on him while his team did nothing to help the situation. lets be honest all the crying going on here is the result of the people who run in circles spamming 111111111 with torment and confusion on them, the people who get outplayed and dont like it. mesmer is the lower end of the power curve, and the fact many of you can only go on about portal and moa is simply more proof of it and the l2p issues of you and/or your team. and to the person who said theirs no counters i ask you to go fight the tempest,scrapper,druid who bring cleanses and sustain are more or less hard counters and require a lot of timing and cooldown alignment for the mes to beat. but no im obv wrong because the yolo zerker armor players with no cleanses dodging clone auto attacks said mes is op so it must be

actually i totally forgot mesmer is definitely op we had a game breaking scepter change remember 5% BOOM

I’m just amazed at how my comparison to other elites is completely evacuated from people who have replied me and replaced by some tangents but I’m not exactly surprised…

that’s because you arguing a time proven elite, and you need to realise while moa’d you can have 3 out of 4 second uptime on 3 people cripple, 3 out of 4 second uptime on 4 people weakness, deal decent damage, dodge and comes with evasive skills. so yes it comes pre set with evasive skills mobility skills, aoe kiting and damage reduction and endurance regen hindrance skill. learn to use the moa. there is a reason moa has not been nerfed. once again you argue a l2p issue.

Fay.2357:

This thread exemplifies the history of Mesmer in GW2:

1. Mesmer is not meta in competitive play
2. Mesmer has builds that steamroll bad players
3. Bad players get steamrolled and come to the forums to whine about it
4. Mesmer gets nerfed again
5. Mesmer goes from not meta to garbage in competitive play

Here’s to hoping Anet ignores the baddies and doesn’t execute point 4.

Well if you look more at ESL matches… you will see more mesmers than the last week. Next week, you will see some more.

Actually, if you play the RANK game… you probably find 1 mesmer each match from Diamond and up.

Perhaps you missed it, but here again:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Conquest

The first class in META section, is hybrid mesmer. And it’s not because the admin of this website are Necros…

desu.2514:

that’s because you arguing a time proven elite, and you need to realise while moa’d you can have 3 out of 4 second uptime on 3 people cripple, 3 out of 4 second uptime on 4 people weakness, deal decent damage, dodge and comes with evasive skills. so yes it comes pre set with evasive skills mobility skills, aoe kiting and damage reduction and endurance regen hindrance skill. learn to use the moa. there is a reason moa has not been nerfed. once again you argue a l2p issue.

What do you think I still need to learn about that skill and what has it to do with other elites in comparison? I mean, this is just getting pathetic and bordering trolling so much what I say is either ignored or reconstructed.

Again,

Did I say nerf Mesmer? No, I did not.
Did I say the skill can’t be avoided? No, I did not.
Did I said if they were to nerf the skill they should give something back to compensate? Yes, I did.
What I also did say is that the skill is WAY stronger than the other elites. But somehow, only get replies on anything BUT this.

I will also add to my previous point that the argument boiling down to “if that skill was too powerful they would have nerfed it” is very flawed.

The reason as to why it is kept in that form might be to compensate otherwise weak aspect of the professions that they don’t know how to handle. But in the end, the skill remains much more powerful even if the profession itself is not.

It is the same thing with gunflame really. Warrior is not OP but gunflame is simply way better than the competition.

And let’s also not pretend that the game is balanced as it is. That argument seem to imply they can’t go wrong when they balance… are you sure you want to go there?

Ithilwen.1529:

Mesmer has already experienced a massive series of nerfs. The shield (multiple times ), wells, alacrity,blurred frenzy ( multiple times ), confusion and yes, even moa. That’s not a complete list.

If anything, Mesmer is currently underpowered, ( as it has been for a majority of the game’s life.)

Yes there is one condi build that is competitive. That build has very little defense against conditions. Necro in particular should have no difficulty against it.

The reality is that there is a lack of skill and understanding on the part of some of the other players.

there’s a trait where mesmers lose condi per shatter.
with alacrity on shatter i don’t see how mesmers have weak condi cleanse compared to other classes like DH, Shiro Rev, and Thieves

If anything I think.mesmer CC needs looking at. I had one completely shut me down I was unable to do anything. I was downed and dead in about 6 seconds.

Mesmer can be nerfed if druid pets, reaper, scrapper, tempests, revs, and some DH abilities are nerfed first. There’s no reason to nerf mesmer when it isn’t nearly as OP as other classes.

Fact is… shield is a very powerful weapon against most players, and even more powerful against bad players.

It doesnt matter if that build is condi or power shatter. The ability to 3-shatter twice makes for insane burst dmg, be it condi or power. And that made possible by a weapon that increases defensive skill amount largely.

I mean, yes.. of course… a good necro will just use fear mark on first block. Or a good player will at least dont attack after first block for a bit, but you absolutely have to be good to effectively counter it.

wow, calling nerfs to Mesmer when this class’s elite spec got gutted to the ground with alacrity overnerf? Before people complain about certain things not have counterplays, now having “counterplay” is not enough. Do these kittened even played Mesmers long enough to know what it feels like? Being in one meta and immediately get a heavy-handed nerfs right after? If Mesmers so effective, where are all the ESL champion Mesmers on the winning teams?

We still need a massive nerf? Um…please try again with this thread.

But…but…Helseth said that mesmers would be bad after the balance patch!

=P