Guild Wars 2

Just checked the profession usage from 7 out of top8 teams(except for zero to hero) in the recent NA ESL.
9 engi, 8 ele, 5 warr, 4 thief, 4 necro, 2 ranger, 2 guard, 1 mes.
It seems that after all the QoL improvement of mesmer class in the Sept patch, the profession just gets ditched even more in current meta.

Since it takes Anet half a year to adjust profession balance, is it time for a new build to be theory crafted and tested for mesmers(perhaps condie shatter)? The traditional power shatter mesmer just does not seem to keep up with the need of majority of teams anymore.

The short of it is that Celestial overshadows Mesmer. Objectively, Mesmer is currently really strong – the way I like to put it though is, Mesmer can win, but realistically it’s too hard (because of the coordination and support the Mesmer needs from its team) and statistically not in the Mesmer’s favor given meta comps.
It takes a lot of time to develop the synergy needed to pull of a Mesmer comp right now. Even TCG who has been playing together and dominating for so long couldn’t pull through, albeit they were slightly out of practice. Point is, success on Mesmer right now is not realistic for the average player or even many/all top players.

Half the classes in, half the classes out. That’s balance around these parts. On the plus side, we’re reaching the end of our current 6 month patch cycle! So maybe you’ll see change by February?

Mesmer is really really really strong. The damage is absurd. And its stupid. It is too high and should be nerfed by removing the fire/air opness and stopping the cancel cast exploit.

BUT as said everything else must be nerfed around it. When something which such high damage, good mobility, evasion, ports, stealth, downed damage, boon stripping, isnt amazing op that means that some other stuff is even more stupidly strong.

Mesmer will have to be nerfed at the same time as everything else if they want to promote skilled and fun gameplay.

imo

Yeah i agree, Mesmer is a huge super cannon from distance, damage is insane (combo air/Fire needs a nerf), but it suffers 4-5 celestial comps.

Hi. I am Best Warrior Korea. Frankly, mesmer is OP as same level as dd ele or turret engi : but only PU and Cond mes are op. Shatter mes is beatable and not OP.

However, mesmers are still NOT viable in tourney, simply because they use stealth lot while fighting, which means you lost point during fight. But when it doesn’t come to capping, mesmer must win in dueling unless you run shatter but pu or condi mes. Anet need to deal with something with mesmer for that losing capping thing becuz of mesmer’s stealth mode to make mesmer viable much more than ever.

Mesmer suks because Anet to much care about skillles ppl. When 15k AP PvE heroes come to PvP with thoughts they can win anyone….what class they cry about most? Not about cele ele, not about cele engie, but about mesmers just because they have clones

Supcutie.2538:

The short of it is that Celestial overshadows Mesmer. The way I like to put it is, Mesmer can win, but realistically it’s too hard (because of the coordination and support the Mesmer needs from its team) and statistically not in the Mesmer’s favor given meta comps.
It takes a lot of time to develop the synergy needed to pull of a Mesmer comp right now. Even TCG who has been playing together and dominating for so long couldn’t pull through, albeit they were slightly out of practice. Point is, success on Mesmer right now is not realistic for the average player or even many top players.

NAILED IT. ^ Right here is the perfect answer.

Shatter Mesmer is strong.. but most people who play it have almost no skill..
The problem is that sustain has become too strong you no longer have to worry about making many mistakes because you can outlast most burst rotations while putting out compareable damage.

Especially if you’re an engineer which absolutely carries even abysmal players just from the fact that they basically can’t be burst down ever. As long as you know the heal rotation.

What’s the point of playing high risk low reward? Pop crate and win all your fights.
(1v1 or otherwise)

Darnis.4056:

Shatter Mesmer is strong.. but most people who play it have almost no skill..
The problem is that sustain has become too strong you no longer have to worry about making many mistakes because you can outlast most burst rotations while putting out compareable damage.

Especially if you’re an engineer which absolutely carries even abysmal players just from the fact that they basically can’t be burst down ever. As long as you know the heal rotation.

What’s the point of playing high risk low reward? Pop crate and win all your fights.
(1v1 or otherwise)

Calls Engi, including grenade specs which are skill shots, brainless but plays a class that spams evades, has boon stripping, braindead easy DPS to land, has way too many “I screwed up stun breaks” and can have 6 condition clears every 10 seconds while negating any Berserker/Assassin’s amulet class that isn’t a Thief.

Your class is actually low-risk and medium reward right now. But back in the power meta, it was one of the most braindead zero risk class in the game. You want REAL high risk high reward? Play glass cannon Warrior and see if you still think Mesmer takes skill, lmao.

Learn humility already.

Amir.1570:

Darnis.4056:

Shatter Mesmer is strong.. but most people who play it have almost no skill..
The problem is that sustain has become too strong you no longer have to worry about making many mistakes because you can outlast most burst rotations while putting out compareable damage.

Especially if you’re an engineer which absolutely carries even abysmal players just from the fact that they basically can’t be burst down ever. As long as you know the heal rotation.

What’s the point of playing high risk low reward? Pop crate and win all your fights.
(1v1 or otherwise)

Calls Engi, including grenade specs which are skill shots, brainless but plays a class that spams evades, has boon stripping, braindead easy DPS to land, has way too many “I screwed up stun breaks” and can have 6 condition clears every 10 seconds while negating any Berserker/Assassin’s amulet class that isn’t a Thief.

Your class is actually low-risk and medium reward right now. But back in the power meta, it was one of the most braindead zero risk class in the game. You want REAL high risk high reward? Play glass cannon Warrior and see if you still think Mesmer takes skill, lmao.

Learn humility already.

You just.. Like to throw out all sorts of nonsensical “facts” don’t you? What Mesmer build were you playing that made you such a prodigy that you could make such claims?

And then after all that to tell someone else to learn humility? Gawd.

Amir.1570:

Darnis.4056:

Shatter Mesmer is strong.. but most people who play it have almost no skill..
The problem is that sustain has become too strong you no longer have to worry about making many mistakes because you can outlast most burst rotations while putting out compareable damage.

Especially if you’re an engineer which absolutely carries even abysmal players just from the fact that they basically can’t be burst down ever. As long as you know the heal rotation.

What’s the point of playing high risk low reward? Pop crate and win all your fights.
(1v1 or otherwise)

Calls Engi, including grenade specs which are skill shots, brainless but plays a class that spams evades, has boon stripping, braindead easy DPS to land, has way too many “I screwed up stun breaks” and can have 6 condition clears every 10 seconds while negating any Berserker/Assassin’s amulet class that isn’t a Thief.

Your class is actually low-risk and medium reward right now. But back in the power meta, it was one of the most braindead zero risk class in the game. You want REAL high risk high reward? Play glass cannon Warrior and see if you still think Mesmer takes skill, lmao.

Learn humility already.

…Sure. You’re taking a lot out of context, and I don’t really want to argue with an irrational argument since it won’t amount to much in the end. If you’re willing to provide more substance to your statement, then maybe. Right now what you said isn’t really anything, so it’s impossible to give a proper rebuttal.

I lol’d at some of that.

Pretty much what Supcutie said is what I feel is right.

Mesmer has been in the same spot for the past 2 years: Strong and has a lot of potential (shatter and CI Mesmer) just is overshadowed and takes a lot of skill to play. As Supcutie/Puma said, why play Mesmer when you can play d/d ele/engi and faceroll your skills to win. Although if you do get to a high enough level with Mesmer you can do some pretty amazing things.

Also, if any Mesmer hasn’t figured out a way to make the mantra heal work to cleanse condis off, then I don’t know what to say to this “Mesmer community” if they’re going to whine about conditions when they have options against condi.

06026 harmonius mantra + condi cleanse on heal + lyssa/scholar still deals damage. Shatter doesn’t even have to be played 44006.

Kinda shows that the Mesmer community can’t adapt for jack. Simple minded community I’m telling you.

Top players says mes is to hard. Player carried by no risk makes claims that mes is brain dead.

Hrmmm who has more credibility?

Even if ppl claim supcutie is biased, it’s an objective fact that mesmers require proper set up to burst. Requiring a lot of cooldowns to be poped to get any decent amount of dmg, and is fairly easy to avoid while being super predictable, AND it’s easy to shut down the setup for 6/8 classes by default.

This is all while being screwed by one missed blink or poorly timed c/d. Which is a lot more risk than it’s glass counter parts: like no setup fresh air eles, built in survivability of medi guards, and inherent escape ability of thieves.

Also “evade spam” is a laughable concept when you consider a 12 sec c/d thats part of the burst combo on a weapon that’s not even viable in the meta, and a 45+ second c/d that causes you to lose momentum. <—- and this is compared to what? Thieves and rangers with REAL evade spam, and eles with the old formula for vigor on crits… and lets not forget some classes have uninterrupable heals.

But hoho 30 second blink, and boon strips (which is random) with obvious burst is super OP right?

Which brings me to another point! In the current meta for sure, but it was also the case in the past, unless you take boon strip it’s hard to be viable esp due to might stacking. Also an argument that you have to give up damage and utility to spec into real condi cleanse when the damage output along with the utility of the previous spec was already shoddy enough to deal with the innate survivability of condi cleave is just terrible.

Anyone who thinks mes is braindead with no mechanical explanation just gets out played, and just reverts to the mindset of: “QQ TRASH MES TAKES NO SKILL”.

Fact is Mes may be strong in concept when played right, but EVERY META that wasn’t the first quarter of release has shut mesmer out due to context. Which to me would imply a problem more with the class.

Mesmer is a higher risk/skill-needed profession for an extremely high reward. Other classes are easier to play, but while they have a lower reward, the margin isn’t large enough to alternatively pick up a Mesmer.

That being said, the idea of a “meta” (insert huge side-eye) is similar to a self-fulfilling prophecy and only hinders variety. The notion that there are only few builds viable in the “meta” is completely untrue and have always been untrue. This is the case more so now than ever when we are in the most balanced state since launch.

Simply put in Mesmer terms, metas are simply illusions.

Daishi.6027:

Fact is Mes may be strong in concept when played right, but EVERY META that wasn’t the first quarter of release has shut mesmer out due to context. Which to me would imply a problem more with the class.

Also I have tried Mantra of Resolve Amir.

I find the topics on “why is/cant/arent Mesmers X” always have the same answer..

It’s a similar answer to Why Vegas will always sustain itself and make money.

It’s a stacked deck.

Mesmers are currently and often have been on the wrong end of a stacked deck or the 49% to the houses 51%.

Mesmers focus on large single target situational CC and Damage and Conditions in a game that often never presents those situations even in sPvP. They’ve been repeatedly nerfed or bugged or changed and very rarely were they given compensation down the road. I can probably safely say its the least buffed class since launch day…

Mesmers also lack Passive, back end defenses or offenses. It’s almost a purely active class in a meta and game that is full of the exact opposite. Warriors, Guardians, Necros, Elementalists are all very passive heavy on the back end and have a lot more wiggle room to play with when they kitten up.

Mesmers also require as stated, a lot of setting up to do things. You want to land a 8-10k burst on a target? you need to use a few skills at the right time and then hope they arent dodged or evaded or invlund or blocked or you arent blinded and then when you’re ready you have to hope that the AI pathing is working at atleast 95% and there is no heavy cleave or AoE and that nothing bugs out and your burst lands.

Compaired to lets say.. a Glass warrior. You use a skill that can KD or Stun and hope its not a miss and then just press F1 or 100blades.

the Cele meta really kills off classes that need to specialize to do well.. There is an issue with something somewhere (i’m staring at Might as a huge cause along with other things) when the traditional and long standard saying is no longer true..

A Jack of all trades is a master of None, does not apply for Gw2 for some classes.. in these cases a Jack of all is a Master of all, and easily outshines those that can only do 1 maybe 2 at the same level…

Its not a good design or balance and it really needs to be looked at in depth if “Esports” is ever going to get off the ground and a healthy Rotating meta is to flower in the stagnate pools of 2 years neglect..

Swish.2463:

I find the topics on “why is/cant/arent Mesmers X” always have the same answer..

the Cele meta really kills off classes that need to specialize to do well..
….
A Jack of all trades is a master of None, does not apply for Gw2 for some classes.. in these cases a Jack of all is a Master of all, and easily outshines those that can only do 1 maybe 2 at the same level…

Its not a good design or balance and it really needs to be looked at in depth if “Esports” is ever going to get off the ground and a healthy Rotating meta is to flower in the stagnate pools of 2 years neglect..

This….

And no mesmers are not strong…even top level mesmer can spent whole game desesperately trying to survive and are shut down easily by a thief.

Cannot fight efficiently on point.
Do not bring aoe pressure.
Are hard countered by a class with much more mobility and survivability (one of the highest).

One can say what he want to hear…but facts are:
Mesmer out of tournament for more than 1 year in NA. And EU with more skilled player in average cannot face the cele ele engi meta as they did not adapt to it.

Gonna go ahead and bump this for visibility l0l
Also Swish I think you’re correct with the stacked deck analogy in a lot of respects.

More skilled players… Did not adapt…

No matter what your class or build, the goal is to contribute more to the fight than players on the opposing team. Specialized builds have one job. In the case of the Shatter Mesmer, that job is to provide high damage and clutch interrupts. All of our survivability and kiting tactics exist so we can do those two things. Making a single mistake on a specialized build is so incredibly bad. Not necessarily because you might die, but because messing up means that a cele build is going to “out-contribute” you in the fight.

The new matchmaking changes highlighted this point for me. I’ve really been struggling to win as a Shatter Mesmer queueing solo since the update. With the randomness of the queues now, my perception of cele builds has changed a ton. They seem much more effective than they were before the update. It just makes so much more sense to me to run these builds in solo queue because these builds are GUARANTEED to make a contribution to the fight. As long as they use their abilities they can provide healing, condi cleanse, fire fields for might etc etc. Whereas if a Mesmer’s mirror blade doesn’t connect and a thief jumps on them right after…they’ve essentially contributed nothing.

Mesmer is OP.

but there’s no role for it for the team to pick it up!

cele plays every roles!

and thief>mesmer!

This is only a solo-er perspective.

Mesmers weak condition removal options have been holding it back for so long. The best defence against condition builds is to burst them before they can get damage off, but in this sustain meta it’s a bit impossible. Also it’s partially because celestial stats are too high and need to be shaved, particularly the defensive stats.

Having confusing cry trait remove conditions instead of its current useless state would tone down shatter-build damage a little and make shatter mesmers far more playable solo.

Just to clarify what I mean by stacked deck.

To win in Vegas you cannot make many mistakes and you have to come out positive what you went in.

For the casino to win they just have to get you to 0. You have no end game.

For specialized builds and classes you can only make so many mistakes .. you have to bat 100% to come out on top

To cele builds they only need to outlast you and have room for a lot more mistakes. They really only need to bring the 51% to tip the match in their favor.

Swish.2463:

To win in Vegas you cannot make many mistakes…

What happens here, stays here?

The thing is, mesmers role is basically +1ing fights because you never really want an even fight with a mesmer… cuz they suck at 2v2s, 3v3s, etc. But even when they +1 fights, they have similar effect to something like a Thief or Necro, but Thief and Necro can do so much more elsewhere as well. Thats just what I think.

-Teef Teef Teef Teef

Prot is not very high on the priority of Shatter removal (only thing less likely to be removed is Stab -.-), Warrior LBow F1, more burning, Geo+Doom and using your face to tank Mesmer attacks and be fine 1v1 is why Mesmers have a hard time atm. Mix all this with the Meta being built of AoE/Area denying classes killling clones and preventing the Mesmer holding the point for more than a few seconds leads to a real headache for us.

Nerf Celest, Doom+Geo and Fire+Air and the game would be in a nicer place. Honestly though I don’t know what to do to Celest without utterly destroying it and making it unviable – having said that I’d rather it completely destroyed than continue as is.

I think the Mesmers just have to give up on using portal and focus on making a new build. Playing Mesmer the way EVERYONE plays it and then complaining that it can’t sustain in team fights is just so self-defeatist to me.

If Mesmers really want to be in teams, they should start dropping what they feel is the status quo and going yolo swag to see what works.

People are winning matches without the use of portal. You really have to ask yourself if portal is so necessary with that fact in mind.

Aerveor.9617:

No matter what your class or build, the goal is to contribute more to the fight than players on the opposing team. Specialized builds have one job. In the case of the Shatter Mesmer, that job is to provide high damage and clutch interrupts. All of our survivability and kiting tactics exist so we can do those two things. Making a single mistake on a specialized build is so incredibly bad. Not necessarily because you might die, but because messing up means that a cele build is going to “out-contribute” you in the fight.

The new matchmaking changes highlighted this point for me. I’ve really been struggling to win as a Shatter Mesmer queueing solo since the update. With the randomness of the queues now, my perception of cele builds has changed a ton. They seem much more effective than they were before the update. It just makes so much more sense to me to run these builds in solo queue because these builds are GUARANTEED to make a contribution to the fight. As long as they use their abilities they can provide healing, condi cleanse, fire fields for might etc etc. Whereas if a Mesmer’s mirror blade doesn’t connect and a thief jumps on them right after…they’ve essentially contributed nothing.

I suggest trying a proper interrupt shatter mesmer (mantras) or a Condi Shatter mesmer (and not the sad one that only tries to catch you with the scepter 2 block) and you might have more luck.

I personally haven’t done so myself so all I’ve got is conjecture but I’m hoping you get better results.

Dirame.8521:

I think the Mesmers just have to give up on using portal and focus on making a new build. Playing Mesmer the way EVERYONE plays it and then complaining that it can’t sustain in team fights is just so self-defeatist to me.

If Mesmers really want to be in teams, they should start dropping what they feel is the status quo and going yolo swag to see what works.

People are winning matches without the use of portal. You really have to ask yourself if portal is so necessary with that fact in mind.

Mesmers are taken because they do AoE Power Damage, Boon Strip and Portal. If you start messing with the 44006 build you’re immediately losing 1 or 2 of those things after which other classes just become better choices.

If you want to make a tiny tweak to become better resistant to condis for example you have to lose either Boon Removal, Decoy or Portal And thats making 1 tiny change. Mesmers are VERY trait locked – as you can tell from them using the EXACT same trait spread since launch (Halting being the only update and we wouldnt even have used it if it hadn’t been in Dom 2 position).

mesmers are one of the best boon strippers which is one of the best ways to counter celestial might-stackers.

im surprised we don’t see more of them.

reason is because thieves too gud?

Solstice.1097:

mesmers are one of the best boon strippers which is one of the best ways to counter celestial might-stackers.

im surprised we don’t see more of them.

reason is because thieves too gud?

Its because Prot is burried and hard to remove and burning doesn’t need Might to kill. So the Cele tank has plenty of sustain and having Might stripped doesn’t have much effect on its Mesmer murdering.

As to your Thief point both meta variants get a “passive” condi removal in doing what they want to do. Panic Strike likes to stealth and gets removal when doing so, SD likes to port in and out and gets a removal doing so. They also have a different Boon Removal priority table to Mesmer Shatter so will always take the Stab when stealing.

Coulter.2315:

Solstice.1097:

mesmers are one of the best boon strippers which is one of the best ways to counter celestial might-stackers.

im surprised we don’t see more of them.

reason is because thieves too gud?

Its because Prot is burried and hard to remove and burning doesn’t need Might to kill. So the Cele tank has plenty of sustain and having Might stripped doesn’t have much effect on its Mesmer murdering.

i was more imagining the mesmer adding to an existing fight not 1v1’ing an ele

Solstice.1097:

Coulter.2315:

Solstice.1097:

mesmers are one of the best boon strippers which is one of the best ways to counter celestial might-stackers.

im surprised we don’t see more of them.

reason is because thieves too gud?

Its because Prot is burried and hard to remove and burning doesn’t need Might to kill. So the Cele tank has plenty of sustain and having Might stripped doesn’t have much effect on its Mesmer murdering.

i was more imagining the mesmer adding to an existing fight not 1v1’ing an ele

Editted my last post to explain why Thieves get an advantage in removals and makes them a more survivable and stable choice. Sadly Mesmers can’t get this sort of “passive” removal without sacrificing something vital as pointed out in my other posts.

lol what you said makes sense but my point was if there is a mesmer around a good thief will hunt the kitten out of him and make him mostly useless a lot of the time. if no good thief around the mesmer can probably contribute a lot pretty freely.

O come on really? you are using 35 players as a sample size…. 35! I know forums is supposed to be this ridiculous but there should be limits. No respectable sample/survey uses that low a number and calls it accurate.

If you want a good sample size look at how many people at high pvp rank levels (60-80 ) then compare the main class use, not 35 people out of how many thousands.

Being on a pro team doesnt automatically make you a god. There are probably people out there who are as good as or even better than the competitive players.

Ragion.2831:

O come on really? you are using 35 players as a sample size…. 35! I know forums is supposed to be this ridiculous but there should be limits. No respectable sample/survey uses that low a number and calls it accurate.

If you want a good sample size look at how many people at high pvp rank levels (60-80 ) then compare the main class use, not 35 people out of how many thousands.

Being on a pro team doesnt automatically make you a god. There are probably people out there who are as good as or even better than the competitive players.

You’ve confused “taking a sample” with “looking at the top end of play”, the top end of play INFLUENCES the other levels which completely removes it as a choice of a sample. We’re looking at top level to notice trends that WILL filter down not as a sample of the whole.

@Dirame I’ve used almost every spec that makes sense to try in sPvP/tPvP. It’s not a creative issue at this point. I posted in the Mesmer forums what specs I’ve tried (and I’ve tried even more since then), you might be able to find it in my post history. I can also assure you I was able to play the specs at an adequate level to test.

Coulter.2315:

Dirame.8521:

I think the Mesmers just have to give up on using portal and focus on making a new build. Playing Mesmer the way EVERYONE plays it and then complaining that it can’t sustain in team fights is just so self-defeatist to me.

If Mesmers really want to be in teams, they should start dropping what they feel is the status quo and going yolo swag to see what works.

People are winning matches without the use of portal. You really have to ask yourself if portal is so necessary with that fact in mind.

Mesmers are taken because they do AoE Power Damage, Boon Strip and Portal. If you start messing with the 44006 build you’re immediately losing 1 or 2 of those things after which other classes just become better choices.

If you want to make a tiny tweak to become better resistant to condis for example you have to lose either Boon Removal, Decoy or Portal And thats making 1 tiny change. Mesmers are VERY trait locked – as you can tell from them using the EXACT same trait spread since launch (Halting being the only update and we wouldnt even have used it if it hadn’t been in Dom 2 position).

That’s my point. You guys are trait locking yourselves because you hold too much value to all those things. The only way you’re going to improve is if you start breaking out of that and who the heck can interrupt better than a mesmer? No one! You also said it yourself, no one can boon strip better than mesmer so even without portal, they are still useful.
If you think a different class would be better in place of class that can boon strip a group of people then proceed to interrupt all of them and immobilize all of them in place so that his/her team can have free reign to nuke crap down then that’s your opinion, that’s not a fact.

Dirame.8521:

I think the Mesmers just have to give up on using portal and focus on making a new build. Playing Mesmer the way EVERYONE plays it and then complaining that it can’t sustain in team fights is just so self-defeatist to me.

If Mesmers really want to be in teams, they should start dropping what they feel is the status quo and going yolo swag to see what works.

People are winning matches without the use of portal. You really have to ask yourself if portal is so necessary with that fact in mind.

Omg I feel like this is all I say in the Mesmer forum. Maim the Meta with condi shatter. It has more sustain, but all the boon stripping and team support that regular Shatter provides. It’s able to fight well on points and it directly counters cele ele.

While the infrastructure is disadvantageous for Mesmers, I think a lot of us hold ourselves back…

Dirame.8521:

Coulter.2315:

Dirame.8521:

I think the Mesmers just have to give up on using portal and focus on making a new build. Playing Mesmer the way EVERYONE plays it and then complaining that it can’t sustain in team fights is just so self-defeatist to me.

If Mesmers really want to be in teams, they should start dropping what they feel is the status quo and going yolo swag to see what works.

People are winning matches without the use of portal. You really have to ask yourself if portal is so necessary with that fact in mind.

Mesmers are taken because they do AoE Power Damage, Boon Strip and Portal. If you start messing with the 44006 build you’re immediately losing 1 or 2 of those things after which other classes just become better choices.

If you want to make a tiny tweak to become better resistant to condis for example you have to lose either Boon Removal, Decoy or Portal And thats making 1 tiny change. Mesmers are VERY trait locked – as you can tell from them using the EXACT same trait spread since launch (Halting being the only update and we wouldnt even have used it if it hadn’t been in Dom 2 position).

That’s my point. You guys are trait locking yourselves because you hold too much value to all those things. The only way you’re going to improve is if you start breaking out of that and who the heck can interrupt better than a mesmer? No one! You also said it yourself, no one can boon strip better than mesmer so even without portal, they are still useful.
If you think a different class would be better in place of class that can boon strip a group of people then proceed to interrupt all of them and immobilize all of them in place so that his/her team can have free reign to nuke crap down then that’s your opinion, that’s not a fact.

I’m trying new builds, they’re all bad compared to shatter.
I feel like the reason that there are no other builds for mesmer is because there are no other good builds for mesmer.
Right now Im playing Celestial 3 mantra mesmer.. .. I’m not doing too good.. My mmr tanked so low I had prinzchaos on the opposing team.

Dirame.8521:

Coulter.2315:

Dirame.8521:

I think the Mesmers just have to give up on using portal and focus on making a new build. Playing Mesmer the way EVERYONE plays it and then complaining that it can’t sustain in team fights is just so self-defeatist to me.

If Mesmers really want to be in teams, they should start dropping what they feel is the status quo and going yolo swag to see what works.

People are winning matches without the use of portal. You really have to ask yourself if portal is so necessary with that fact in mind.

Mesmers are taken because they do AoE Power Damage, Boon Strip and Portal. If you start messing with the 44006 build you’re immediately losing 1 or 2 of those things after which other classes just become better choices.

If you want to make a tiny tweak to become better resistant to condis for example you have to lose either Boon Removal, Decoy or Portal And thats making 1 tiny change. Mesmers are VERY trait locked – as you can tell from them using the EXACT same trait spread since launch (Halting being the only update and we wouldnt even have used it if it hadn’t been in Dom 2 position).

That’s my point. You guys are trait locking yourselves because you hold too much value to all those things. The only way you’re going to improve is if you start breaking out of that and who the heck can interrupt better than a mesmer? No one! You also said it yourself, no one can boon strip better than mesmer so even without portal, they are still useful.
If you think a different class would be better in place of class that can boon strip a group of people then proceed to interrupt all of them and immobilize all of them in place so that his/her team can have free reign to nuke crap down then that’s your opinion, that’s not a fact.

The build you just described was 44600 if you think Mesmers haven’t extensively tested this build and come to the conclusion it is worse than 44006 Shatter you’re wrong.
You might not know me (and thats perfectly fine) but you have seen supcutie reply too and told you that he has tested many builds (as have I but I’m trying to pick someone’s opinion who you’ll take).
I’m not saying Mesmers are weak, I love it and they are excellent to play BUT they are certainly on the decline and its because of the meta and I have explained rather well the reasons why.
Mesmers are disappearing not because we’re not good and thinking players its just we’re naturally weaker in the current situation, its an MMO though so balance and change will sort this with time.

Supcutie.2538:

@Dirame I’ve used almost every spec that makes sense to try in sPvP/tPvP. It’s not a creative issue at this point. I posted in the Mesmer forums what specs I’ve tried (and I’ve tried even more since then), you might be able to find it in my post history. I can also assure you I was able to play the specs at an adequate level to test.

I’d truly like to know what you’ve tried and what you haven’t because I really fail to believe that things are that bad.

I read some of your old posts and one of them mentioned something about the shortcomings of the mesmer coming to light when teams start to get better and smarter and I guess my question is, “What are the shortcomings of the Mesmer?” apart from being extremely squishy and not being able to handle condis unless you spec a certain way. Because from what I personally have tried and tested, I feel like players who are better than me should be able to run away with how powerful the mesmer can be.

Coulter.2315:

Dirame.8521:

Coulter.2315:

Dirame.8521:

I think the Mesmers just have to give up on using portal and focus on making a new build. Playing Mesmer the way EVERYONE plays it and then complaining that it can’t sustain in team fights is just so self-defeatist to me.

If Mesmers really want to be in teams, they should start dropping what they feel is the status quo and going yolo swag to see what works.

People are winning matches without the use of portal. You really have to ask yourself if portal is so necessary with that fact in mind.

Mesmers are taken because they do AoE Power Damage, Boon Strip and Portal. If you start messing with the 44006 build you’re immediately losing 1 or 2 of those things after which other classes just become better choices.

If you want to make a tiny tweak to become better resistant to condis for example you have to lose either Boon Removal, Decoy or Portal And thats making 1 tiny change. Mesmers are VERY trait locked – as you can tell from them using the EXACT same trait spread since launch (Halting being the only update and we wouldnt even have used it if it hadn’t been in Dom 2 position).

That’s my point. You guys are trait locking yourselves because you hold too much value to all those things. The only way you’re going to improve is if you start breaking out of that and who the heck can interrupt better than a mesmer? No one! You also said it yourself, no one can boon strip better than mesmer so even without portal, they are still useful.
If you think a different class would be better in place of class that can boon strip a group of people then proceed to interrupt all of them and immobilize all of them in place so that his/her team can have free reign to nuke crap down then that’s your opinion, that’s not a fact.

The build you just described was 44600 if you think Mesmers haven’t extensively tested this build and come to the conclusion it is worse than 44006 Shatter you’re wrong.
You might not know me (and thats perfectly fine) but you have seen supcutie reply too and told you that he has tested many builds (as have I but I’m trying to pick someone’s opinion who you’ll take).
I’m not saying Mesmers are weak, I love it and they are excellent to play BUT they are certainly on the decline and its because of the meta and I have explained rather well the reasons why.
Mesmers are disappearing not because we’re not good and thinking players its just we’re naturally weaker in the current situation, its an MMO though so balance and change will sort this with time.

Good point.

Wait until the zerker meta comes back and see how braindead Mesmer really is.

Coulter.2315:

The build you just described was 44600 if you think Mesmers haven’t extensively tested this build and come to the conclusion it is worse than 44006 Shatter you’re wrong.
You might not know me (and thats perfectly fine) but you have seen supcutie reply too and told you that he has tested many builds (as have I but I’m trying to pick someone’s opinion who you’ll take).
I’m not saying Mesmers are weak, I love it and they are excellent to play BUT they are certainly on the decline and its because of the meta and I have explained rather well the reasons why.
Mesmers are disappearing not because we’re not good and thinking players its just we’re naturally weaker in the current situation, its an MMO though so balance and change will sort this with time.

I personally don’t know to what extent any mesmer has tried any of the builds. I’m just going off of my own experiences.

And don’t believe I’m not taking your opinion into consideration just because I’m sticking vehemently to mine. It’s just that I’ve never actually seen a mesmer play without any of the holy trinity of skills they use.

When the power meta was around, Mesmer was braindead easy because there is simply NOTHING hard about spamming evades and invulnerability while dealing cleave damage. Anything that wasn’t a berserker Thief, Mesmer was an anti-fun class to go against.

Mesmer would be the most braindead class in the game if it wasn’t for the fact that Ele Ranger Necro and Guard existed in all honesty.

Classes that evade spams while dealing damage is not hard to play, borderline make accommodations to deal with conditions or w/e. Mesmer is no exception. You CANNOT buff this class or it will be anti-fun. That’s all and it should probably stay that way.

^ Has gotten beaten up by one too many Mesmers.

Without its unique evasions, it becomes quite detrimental to use period.

I think the only buff I have ever asked for Mesmer has been to give GS3 a Blast Finisher component (before the last update), I don’t want Mesmers buffed I want Cele, Fire+Air, Geo+Doom nerf’d. Halting might need looking at for nerf too but lets wait til we deal with the Rune/Sigil mess first.

@Dirame – is that your youtube channel in your comment? If it is I’m glad you’re producing content for GW2 thats definitely commendable however I looked at your thoughts on the most recent Mesmer and Ele changes, there is an issue which discredits your opinions on Mesmer. You never noticed that Illusionary Elasticity didn’t effect clones before the update – if this escaped your notice for 2 years then I’m sorry but you cannot come here and demand that people think and try harder. I don’t want to discourage you too much and you can stick to your thoughts BUT I’m pointing out a massive mistake you made for 2 years so you may be mistaken again. Please don’t take this as a personal attack I’m just trying to show that you might want to rethink as you’ve not noticed stuff in the past.