Guild Wars 2

JUST PUT THEM ON THE SAME CD…. All this insane talk of only allowing them to trigger on 2-5 can you imagine what effort that would require to get into the game? And it doesn’t stop the problem of +3k damage on spikes.

Just force all “Proc on Crit” Sigils to share a CD – they surely have some code like this saved somewhere as its how they worked before.

Anet told us that they wouldn’t allow Fire+Air to proc together (AS I RAISED THIS ISSUE HERE BEFORE THE kittenING UPDATE!) But now that implies they lack the ability to actually separate Fire+Air from any other kind of Sigil.. Hmm we might be stuck with it.. kitten

kitten sbow

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Sizer.5632:

Great idea, except for the fact that it wouldnt do a thing to classes not based on autos. So basically all those thieves running fire/air sigils would move to doing it on s/f eles.

+1 to this problem needing to be addressed
-1 to this particular idea

S/F ele is straight up stupid and OP vs anything that’s berserker. The build itself needs to die. Unless there’s some other build with this complete lack of counterplay, I think this holds up for every other build in the game.

srsly, what are u even talking about? sf ele is a 1shot enemy for mesmer/teef combo, even for teef alone. it’s all about the pentiums baby

Chaith.8256:

BlackBeard.2873:

I also get annoyed by things like stow-weapon on abilities making them much stronger than they should. The biggest offenders are ele lightning whip and memser GS auto. Perhaps just move the SoR proc (for ele) to the end of the LW skill, and remove the mesmer after-cast and spread the damage out over the whole duration.

Stow weapon to increase raw dps and sustain churns my stomach as well. I am really put off by the idea of having to do that to maximize your competitiveness.

I am indifferent about it, but wanted to point out its inconsistency. On one hand it is justifiable because it calls for more interaction which adds more reward for the effort, and is by far much better than the passive air fire proc’s simply because you have built to offload damage in that manner. In the end it really just looks like a loophole that was worked around instead of fully integrated as it is not even listed as a working mechanic on the wiki page.

Would it be better to have more consistency with a bindable cancel action key with clear intentions across a clear set of skills instead of the workarounds for certain situations in using the stow weapon and esc keys we now have?

Amstel Steel.2058:

In the end it really just looks like a loophole that was worked around instead of fully integrated as it is not even listed as a working mechanic on the wiki page.

Just because we agree it’s a loophole, that’s reason enough for it to go away. Aftercasts are put in the game for a reason, circumventing them could hardly be officially condoned by Anet.

It’s a flaw in the system that can be used to bypass the intent of the aftercast rules. Maybe a 5% buff to the skills that no longer can have their aftercasts bypassed, if Anet is feeling charitable, but it seems like an obvious thing to tighten up on.

Amstel Steel.2058:

Would it be better to have more consistency with a bindable cancel action key with clear intentions across a clear set of skills instead of the workarounds for certain situations in using the stow weapon and esc keys we now have?

I would be very surprised. There aren’t very many skills in which you can avoid the aftercast to be balanced across all weapon kits, and justify making this an intended feature.

sigils allow the game to be more balanced , guys dont forget before air/fire sigils the community was QQing about bunkers.
Its a great idea to have the sigils only proc from abilities instead of auto attacks.

tanztante.6532:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Sizer.5632:

Great idea, except for the fact that it wouldnt do a thing to classes not based on autos. So basically all those thieves running fire/air sigils would move to doing it on s/f eles.

+1 to this problem needing to be addressed
-1 to this particular idea

S/F ele is straight up stupid and OP vs anything that’s berserker. The build itself needs to die. Unless there’s some other build with this complete lack of counterplay, I think this holds up for every other build in the game.

srsly, what are u even talking about? sf ele is a 1shot enemy for mesmer/teef combo, even for teef alone. it’s all about the pentiums baby

What crap S/F Eles are you talking about? Any good SF ele knows how to burst a thief. Most of your health can be gone in one shot with no animations. Berserker classes can’t survive on luck vs classes with no counterplay, especially when blind isn’t a viable option to reduce damage. Maybe S/D can handle it better, but even top rank players have said “I run S/F ele because the only way to beat something with as little counterplay as a S/D thief is with something with even less counterplay”. Not to mention mist form + obsidian flesh + lightning flash is a great way to survive against mesmer thief combo.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

tanztante.6532:

The Gates Assassin.9827:

Sizer.5632:

Great idea, except for the fact that it wouldnt do a thing to classes not based on autos. So basically all those thieves running fire/air sigils would move to doing it on s/f eles.

+1 to this problem needing to be addressed
-1 to this particular idea

S/F ele is straight up stupid and OP vs anything that’s berserker. The build itself needs to die. Unless there’s some other build with this complete lack of counterplay, I think this holds up for every other build in the game.

srsly, what are u even talking about? sf ele is a 1shot enemy for mesmer/teef combo, even for teef alone. it’s all about the pentiums baby

What crap S/F Eles are you talking about? Any good SF ele knows how to burst a thief. Most of your health can be gone in one shot with no animations. Berserker classes can’t survive on luck vs classes with no counterplay, especially when blind isn’t a viable option to reduce damage. Maybe S/D can handle it better, but even top rank players have said “I run S/F ele because the only way to beat something with as little counterplay as a S/D thief is with something with even less counterplay”. Not to mention mist form + obsidian flesh + lightning flash is a great way to survive against mesmer thief combo.

Yeah, playing with The Abjured for a few weeks, I can tell you that within the team, the majority opinion on S/F Berserker Eles are that they are not able to hold up in high tier. Ostricheggs was really wanting to use his S/F Ele which he has tons of experience on, but it was not optimal in actual practice.

The strongest argument against them is the fact that while Obsidian Flesh is a very strong cooldown, they can’t survive the onslaught that is rotating through continuous fights in the conquest gametype.

They essentially fall off too fast when their big cooldowns are done – they are an extremely huge liability in the face of being hunted by a D/P Thief or even consistent sustained damage.

See, the counterplay to S/F Ele is massive. It just doesn’t lie in dodging their Air Swaps, which admittedly makes them a bit of an outlier, rather it lies in popping them like a pimple.

I think D/D Celestial is harder to counter. Phanta beats Engies using crate consistently, has huge 1v2 delaying power. Countering a D/D Ele on a micro level is easier than a S/F Ele, but if you look at the big picture, S/F Ele is easily shut down and prevented from wreaking havoc on your team.

Sizer.2654:

sigils allow the game to be more balanced , guys dont forget before air/fire sigils the community was QQing about bunkers.
Its a great idea to have the sigils only proc from abilities instead of auto attacks.

Free undodgable damage isn’t good – you argued against Dhuumfire for this very reason. Celest also needs to be tackled yes – no one here is saying bunker comps are good but fire+air needs dealt with too.

Simplest and most likely fix is to just put all proc sigils on a shared CD and done, can then get on to the other balance issues.

+13424 to this idea
I also think that AA should not be main source of dmg .
Decrease AA dmg , decrease cd on skills2345 and increase their dmg to bring back lost dmg . Also all sigils,runes etc should not affect AA .

First, some context about Air and Fire sigil. They are only run on zerker burst specs.

With that being understood, if we apply the suggestion originally posted we’d basically be nerfing burst builds a bit, but the burst would still trigger the sigil procs for everything except thief. Power ranger skill 2 will proc the sigils, mesmer shatters combos will still proc the sigils on burst, DPS guardian will still proc the sigils on burst, not that power engi is a thing anymore but that will still proc sigils.

D/P Thief is havily reliant on it’s auto attack and backstab for most of it’s damage, so the suggestion would be another nerf to D/P thief by relativity. S/D thief is actually heavily reliant on sigils for damage.

Making this change to sigils is a heavy nerf via relativity to thief. Additionally, given the state of hybrid builds I’m not sure you actually want to nerf air + fire procs, otherwise you might as well have everyone running hybrids/bunkers.

It’s a delicate balance imo, nerfing air + fire specifically targets zerker builds. In my opinion you can’t nerf those unless you simultaneously nerf hybrid runes and sigils and bunker runes and sigils as well.

Both air+fire AND celestial+might stacking are problems…they’re the 2 faces of the same medal, double proc counters reterded condition bunker meta so just nerf both and we should be fine. Only removing double on crit procs (Even on autos) would just make celestial spam even stronger…every nerf on sustained dmg is actually a buff for bunkers…so you need to tone both of them down or this is gonna be even worse

dps specs shouldn’t be able to kill something just spamming and bunkers shouldn’t be able to kill someone 1v1…this should be the base rule imo

Archaon.9524:

Both air+fire AND celestial+might stacking are problems…they’re the 2 faces of the same medal, double proc counters reterded condition bunker meta so just nerf both and we should be fine. Only removing double on crit procs (Even on autos) would just make celestial spam even stronger…every nerf on sustained dmg is actually a buff for bunkers…so you need to tone both of them down or this is gonna be even worse

So sigil critting berserkers, sigil swapping celestial bruisers and bunkers who benefit from damage nerfs need nerfs.

For such a juggling act, I really don’t get the vibe that all these things can be implemented at once, which is the fair thing.

Chaith.8256:

Archaon.9524:

Both air+fire AND celestial+might stacking are problems…they’re the 2 faces of the same medal, double proc counters reterded condition bunker meta so just nerf both and we should be fine. Only removing double on crit procs (Even on autos) would just make celestial spam even stronger…every nerf on sustained dmg is actually a buff for bunkers…so you need to tone both of them down or this is gonna be even worse

So sigil critting berserkers, sigil swapping celestial bruisers and bunkers who benefit from damage nerfs need nerfs.

For such a juggling act, I really don’t get the vibe that all these things can be implemented at once, which is the fair thing.

If they don’t implement at once they’re just gonna break this game even more…if they nerf sustained dps we’re gonna see even more celestial clowns around, if they nerf celestial bunkers everyone is just gonna run bunker guard, side bunker (soldier hambow probably) and 3 zerk specs just killing everything else with random procs…making it a oneshot roulette…and both cases are gonna be worse that this already bad sotg

Shockwave.1230:

First, some context about Air and Fire sigil. They are only run on zerker burst specs.

With that being understood, if we apply the suggestion originally posted we’d basically be nerfing burst builds a bit, but the burst would still trigger the sigil procs for everything except thief. Power ranger skill 2 will proc the sigils, mesmer shatters combos will still proc the sigils on burst, DPS guardian will still proc the sigils on burst, not that power engi is a thing anymore but that will still proc sigils.

D/P Thief is havily reliant on it’s auto attack and backstab for most of it’s damage, so the suggestion would be another nerf to D/P thief by relativity. S/D thief is actually heavily reliant on sigils for damage.

Making this change to sigils is a heavy nerf via relativity to thief. Additionally, given the state of hybrid builds I’m not sure you actually want to nerf air + fire procs, otherwise you might as well have everyone running hybrids/bunkers.

It’s a delicate balance imo, nerfing air + fire specifically targets zerker builds. In my opinion you can’t nerf those unless you simultaneously nerf hybrid runes and sigils and bunker runes and sigils as well.

You forgot about Power Necromancer.

GW2 pvp is working as intended, spam aoe/AA and proc passives. GG e-sports

Archaon.9524:

Chaith.8256:

Archaon.9524:

Both air+fire AND celestial+might stacking are problems…they’re the 2 faces of the same medal, double proc counters reterded condition bunker meta so just nerf both and we should be fine. Only removing double on crit procs (Even on autos) would just make celestial spam even stronger…every nerf on sustained dmg is actually a buff for bunkers…so you need to tone both of them down or this is gonna be even worse

So sigil critting berserkers, sigil swapping celestial bruisers and bunkers who benefit from damage nerfs need nerfs.

For such a juggling act, I really don’t get the vibe that all these things can be implemented at once, which is the fair thing.

If they don’t implement at once they’re just gonna break this game even more…if they nerf sustained dps we’re gonna see even more celestial clowns around, if they nerf celestial bunkers everyone is just gonna run bunker guard, side bunker (soldier hambow probably) and 3 zerk specs just killing everything else with random procs…making it a oneshot roulette…and both cases are gonna be worse that this already bad sotg

It seems like people are largely happy with the overall balance at the moment, what people are really asking for in my opinion, is for the game to be a bit less spammy so that team coordinated combat can surface a bit more. The different things that people are calling out such as double sigil procs and celestial might stacking and nightmare runes are all callouts to slow the game down. If you slow the game down you also need to nerf bunkers and support though.

and then we have things like combustive shot – massive aoe covering entire point and that is garanteed to hit someone…

Tage.7045:

-snip-

I never thought I would say this but… I disagree with Tage.

sigh

Looking at it 6 months later.. my opinion is that if this would be pushed through, Mesmer and Thief would be totally pushed out the meta. Mesmer already in a bad shape, this would make things worse and let Bruisers reign over yet again.

SAY NO TO BRAINDEAD CELE!

This was so casually necro’d that I didn’t even notice it went from “6 months ago” to “2 hours ago”. Like someone asked “How are you?” last year, and you just texted them back saying “Yeah I’m doing fine, what about you?” today.

i didn’t necro it o.o… did someone update post or post above me got deleted?

My suggestion:

Remove all Auto-Attacks from Instant Kill No Skill Requirement Profession: Thief, Elementalist, Engineer, Ranger

DarkSyze.8627:

My suggestion:

Nerf all Instant Kill No Skill Requirement Profession: Thief, Elementalist, Engineer, Ranger

i have better suggestion: delete all classes and create 1 class with 1 melee attack…. very balanced

Cynz.9437:

DarkSyze.8627:

My suggestion:

Nerf all Instant Kill No Skill Requirement Profession: Thief, Elementalist, Engineer, Ranger

i have better suggestion: delete all classes and create 1 class with 1 melee attack…. very balanced

I agree and buff Shoutbow, medi guard and Power necro. Not enough passives and too hard to play.

I said this somewhere in another thread:
While I dislike high damage instant-cast abilities, on-hit effects that don’t have a charge, and instant damage on weapon swap, preventing sigil procs for auto attacks will just make things more unbalanced. It will favour classes that don’t use their auto attacks much. Classes like thief are designed to use their auto attacks as their main source of damage, and the other skills in reaction to a situation. Not every class can swap kits with no cool down, or has 4 sets of skills to cycle through for a greater chance to land those sigil effects. Better to just remove them altogether, and un-nerf some skills that have been nerfed or are nerfed just in PvP, or increase the damage coefficients slightly of select skills for each class.

Tage.7045:

SAY NO TO RNG!

I second this motion

I still agree with what tage wrote. However, i do think this would effect mesmer and thief alot.

10/10 Tage got schooled by S/D teef! I guarantee!

Plus a silly change like that would kill the S/D teef. What, are they supposed to Infil Strike you to death? xD

The best solution would be to unify the procs CD as someone suggested.

I know you are “esports” and all that, but in Gw2 the autoattack of many builds is a powerful attack, unlike other MMOs. I don’t see why an attack shouldn’t be powerful because you think this is World of Warcraft. I kinda like it this way. Every attack counts

Cynz.9437:

DarkSyze.8627:

My suggestion:

Nerf all Instant Kill No Skill Requirement Profession: Thief, Elementalist, Engineer, Ranger

i have better suggestion: delete all classes and create 1 class with 1 melee attack…. very balanced

I agree

i am saying no to every instant skill also without animation then. Because tage only mentioning sigils to rng is not enough. You need to talk for other abilities too like: spinal shivers, guard chill on crit with dmg etc etc etc, this includes sigils but sigils are more powerfull on thief mesmer, so if u nerf sigils give dmg to zerkers instead.

PS: not all zerkers need dmg buff after sigil nerf

This thread is puzzling. Ever since quickness got nerfed into the ground, berserker builds and burst have been inferior to celestial/rabid builds (high toughness, high condi).

The only classes that have a strong AA are necro and thief. Necro is unanimously agreed to be terrible in PvP right now, so I’m not sure why you’d want them nerfed more. Thief is barely competitive in high-end PvP (especially against all the celestial builds). The AA chains also deliver their strongest hit at the end of the chain, which can be very easily dodged/kited/interrupted/blinded/blocked/etc.

The only thing berserker builds with air + fire are good for right now is trolling new players that haven’t learned to use their defensive skills yet.

Rip necros and rangers if this goes through

The current balance is okay. Nerfs to air/fire will completely destroy the balance. Every one will play celestial or condie tank.

I actually mentioned the same concept of crit sigils not being able to proc on autoattack and had a bunch of people instantly jump down my throat and say “blah blah break the sigils blah blah RNG carries me blah blah please don’t nerf my crutch.”

So yes, totally in support. Any time we can remove RNG and make the game more reaction based and skillful, we should.

jcbroe.4329:

I actually mentioned the same concept of crit sigils not being able to proc on autoattack and had a bunch of people instantly jump down my throat and say “blah blah break the sigils blah blah RNG carries me blah blah please don’t nerf my crutch.”

So yes, totally in support. Any time we can remove RNG and make the game more reaction based and skillful, we should.

Removing its proc on auto attack will only nerf some professions into oblivion while it still remains a RNG proc.

Then only way is to completely change the way the sigils function.

One way I can think of: Critical hits store fire/air charges. Once it reaches a certain charge number. The next attack will release the powerful fire/air effect. There will be a buff icon or effect on the particular attack.

+1 to this post.

If i might add to it, other auto attack procs (such as IP on engineer) should not proc on auto attacks either. It promotes passive play on engi making it extremley powerful in 1vs1s and Teamfights by constantly applyin poison and burn on auto attacks.

As for the people claiming that it would destroy certain specs of the build.. (s/d thief/power rangers) you are already getting a damage boost and should consider trait swaps if you really want to invest in damage. There is little trade-off for investing all trait lines to survivability when you have air/fire proc and procs such as IP on auto attacks. Logic dictates, if you want damage you trait for damage, damage should be subtracted otherwise. (the fact the s/d acro offers the same sustained damage as critstrike s/d in 1 minute justifies my arguement.)

Just my 2 cents, would love to read your opinion on this.

Edit: If i might add, power necros and power rangers are completley dependant on random procs which is just bad design. Damage should really be worked to be attained, nothing is more frustrating to die to someone just pressing 1 button in a smart position.. it might be bad in 1v1 scenarios but it is still extremley powerful in a competitive scenario when coordinated stealth bursts and chain of immobs exist.

Patchi.9061:

+1 to this post.

If i might add to it, other auto attack procs (such as IP on engineer) should not proc on auto attacks either. It promotes passive play on engi making it extremley powerful in 1vs1s and Teamfights by constantly applyin poison and burn on auto attacks.

As for the people claiming that it would destroy certain specs of the build.. (s/d thief/power rangers) you are already getting a damage boost and should consider trait swaps if you really want to invest in damage. There is little trade-off for investing all trait lines to survivability when you have air/fire proc and procs such as IP on auto attacks. Logic dictates, if you want damage you trait for damage, damage should be subtracted otherwise. (the fact the s/d acro offers the same sustained damage as critstrike s/d in 1 minute justifies my arguement.)

Just my 2 cents, would love to read your opinion on this.

Edit: If i might add, power necros and power rangers are completley dependant on random procs which is just bad design. Damage should really be worked to be attained, nothing is more frustrating to die to someone just pressing 1 button in a smart position.. it might be bad in 1v1 scenarios but it is still extremley powerful in a competitive scenario when coordinated stealth bursts and chain of immobs exist.

Critical chance itself is already RNG dependent. So should we remove all these together and embrace a condie meta where everyone just blindly spam condie?

Does condie ranger take much more skill than power ranger to play? Not really.

RNG attack can be frustrating. But this is little concern regarding skillful play and balance. The truth, on the contrary, many power spec that rely on fire/air are not that strong to start with. Why nerfing them? As far as I can see, some of those spec take actually more skills to play.

Exciton.8942:

Patchi.9061:

+1 to this post.

If i might add to it, other auto attack procs (such as IP on engineer) should not proc on auto attacks either. It promotes passive play on engi making it extremley powerful in 1vs1s and Teamfights by constantly applyin poison and burn on auto attacks.

As for the people claiming that it would destroy certain specs of the build.. (s/d thief/power rangers) you are already getting a damage boost and should consider trait swaps if you really want to invest in damage. There is little trade-off for investing all trait lines to survivability when you have air/fire proc and procs such as IP on auto attacks. Logic dictates, if you want damage you trait for damage, damage should be subtracted otherwise. (the fact the s/d acro offers the same sustained damage as critstrike s/d in 1 minute justifies my arguement.)

Just my 2 cents, would love to read your opinion on this.

Edit: If i might add, power necros and power rangers are completley dependant on random procs which is just bad design. Damage should really be worked to be attained, nothing is more frustrating to die to someone just pressing 1 button in a smart position.. it might be bad in 1v1 scenarios but it is still extremley powerful in a competitive scenario when coordinated stealth bursts and chain of immobs exist.

Critical chance itself is already RNG dependent. So should we remove all these together and embrace a condie meta where everyone just blindly spam condie?

Does condie ranger take much more skill than power ranger to play? Not really.

RNG attack can be frustrating. But this is little concern regarding skillful play and balance. The truth, on the contrary, many power spec that rely on fire/air are not that strong to start with. Why nerfing them? As far as I can see, some of those spec take actually more skills to play.

Just read the OP and it would answer your question. Air/Fire on auto attacks is just bad design and as you mentioned, they are frustrating. The one-shot capabilities of 2-3 zerks is just too much because of air and fire procs. A small solution is to remove them from auto attacks, even tho I just generally believe they are unhealthy to the PvP scene as it’s completely RNG.

Do the math: 2k proc per zerker around every 5 seconds. Thats 28k damage just from procs on auto per minute. If those numbers are not enough to justify it then I don’t know what would. AND the fact they apply ON CRIT makes it a far bigger burst of damage (5k backstab … +2k air and 1.4k fire…that is like doing 2 backstabs.)

Lukin.4061:

But this game is actually increasing rng, why would they try to decrease it? : O And please dont tell me that it is a bad design – you can say it about 90% of things in gw2 pvp.

Heavy rng in a game trying to be skill based (esports) is a terrible design…

Patchi.9061:

Exciton.8942:

Patchi.9061:

+1 to this post.

If i might add to it, other auto attack procs (such as IP on engineer) should not proc on auto attacks either. It promotes passive play on engi making it extremley powerful in 1vs1s and Teamfights by constantly applyin poison and burn on auto attacks.

As for the people claiming that it would destroy certain specs of the build.. (s/d thief/power rangers) you are already getting a damage boost and should consider trait swaps if you really want to invest in damage. There is little trade-off for investing all trait lines to survivability when you have air/fire proc and procs such as IP on auto attacks. Logic dictates, if you want damage you trait for damage, damage should be subtracted otherwise. (the fact the s/d acro offers the same sustained damage as critstrike s/d in 1 minute justifies my arguement.)

Just my 2 cents, would love to read your opinion on this.

Edit: If i might add, power necros and power rangers are completley dependant on random procs which is just bad design. Damage should really be worked to be attained, nothing is more frustrating to die to someone just pressing 1 button in a smart position.. it might be bad in 1v1 scenarios but it is still extremley powerful in a competitive scenario when coordinated stealth bursts and chain of immobs exist.

Critical chance itself is already RNG dependent. So should we remove all these together and embrace a condie meta where everyone just blindly spam condie?

Does condie ranger take much more skill than power ranger to play? Not really.

RNG attack can be frustrating. But this is little concern regarding skillful play and balance. The truth, on the contrary, many power spec that rely on fire/air are not that strong to start with. Why nerfing them? As far as I can see, some of those spec take actually more skills to play.

Just read the OP and it would answer your question. Air/Fire on auto attacks is just bad design and as you mentioned, they are frustrating. The one-shot capabilities of 2-3 zerks is just too much because of air and fire procs. A small solution is to remove them from auto attacks, even tho I just generally believe they are unhealthy to the PvP scene as it’s completely RNG.

Do the math: 2k proc per zerker around every 5 seconds. Thats 28k damage just from procs on auto per minute. If those numbers are not enough to justify it then I don’t know what would. AND the fact they apply ON CRIT makes it a far bigger burst of damage (5k backstab … +2k air and 1.4k fire…that is like doing 2 backstabs.)

The only thing I know is that if I just auto attack warrior on my memser, they can basically face tank everything and laugh on the point. How is that too much damage?

Most zerker class are squishy as hell and way harder to play than the condie bunker. The problematic ones are the bunkers rather than the zerkers.

Grimreaper.5370:

Lukin.4061:

But this game is actually increasing rng, why would they try to decrease it? : O And please dont tell me that it is a bad design – you can say it about 90% of things in gw2 pvp.

Heavy rng in a game trying to be skill based (esports) is a terrible design…

People are exaggerating things. 99% of fights are not determined by the fire/air proc. Even in mirror zerker, it is the one with more skills who will come out on top. Other matchups, it still largely depends on who dodged better, managed cooldown better , mind gamed better and positioned better.

Most people just complain because they lose fights and try to attribute it to other factors.

Grimreaper.5370:

Lukin.4061:

But this game is actually increasing rng, why would they try to decrease it? : O And please dont tell me that it is a bad design – you can say it about 90% of things in gw2 pvp.

Heavy rng in a game trying to be skill based (esports) is a terrible design…

Erm pretty much everything in the game fits that criteria – instant skills, stealth, passive healing, endless dodge/evade spam, significant differences in how forgiving (faceroll) different builds/classes are whilst still being effective, ridiculous particle effects that obscure animations in a game where you are supposed to react to animations, game changing bugs like mid air immobilize that don’t fixed for a year, AI that is borderline useless, too much AI that again obscures what is going on, too much spam fullstop and so on, game is never goign to be “e-sports” or particularly skilled.

Patchi.9061:

+1 to this post.

If i might add to it, other auto attack procs (such as IP on engineer) should not proc on auto attacks either. It promotes passive play on engi making it extremley powerful in 1vs1s and Teamfights by constantly applyin poison and burn on auto attacks.

As for the people claiming that it would destroy certain specs of the build.. (s/d thief/power rangers) you are already getting a damage boost and should consider trait swaps if you really want to invest in damage. There is little trade-off for investing all trait lines to survivability when you have air/fire proc and procs such as IP on auto attacks. Logic dictates, if you want damage you trait for damage, damage should be subtracted otherwise. (the fact the s/d acro offers the same sustained damage as critstrike s/d in 1 minute justifies my arguement.)

Thieves and Mesmers are counting on those kind of procs to be viable. Even the full damage traited. Without Air/Fire, Thieves and mesmers will be totally pushed out of the meta, despite the small buffs they get with upcoming trait changes (not to mention mesmer is already out of the meta in top tier). Everyone will play cele bruiser if they would remove air/fire. So.much.fun.

Also; thieves and mesmer had enough nerfs that they’re on the edge of extinction in PvP.

Unless you’re offering something in return to burst builds to compensate:

SAY NO TO BRAINDEAD CELE!

Remove the possibility of auto-attacks to trigger air/fire sigil?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eal4fep7pK4

And just in case my answer wasn’t clear enough….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

Just increase the CD on one ( while increasing the crit chance ofc : 8s CD and 66% chance on fire sigil), but remove the chance of sigils to trigger on auto-attack?…do you want to lower my overall chance to bring down all the super tanks that fly around?

Exciton.8942:

Grimreaper.5370:

Lukin.4061:

But this game is actually increasing rng, why would they try to decrease it? : O And please dont tell me that it is a bad design – you can say it about 90% of things in gw2 pvp.

Heavy rng in a game trying to be skill based (esports) is a terrible design…

People are exaggerating things. 99% of fights are not determined by the fire/air proc. Even in mirror zerker, it is the one with more skills who will come out on top. Other matchups, it still largely depends on who dodged better, managed cooldown better , mind gamed better and positioned better.

Most people just complain because they lose fights and try to attribute it to other factors.

Someone give this man a cookie. He knows his stuff.

lighter.2708:

back in the days, warrior used to be extremly bad because people can kill it with auto attack, healing signet was a band-aid but its happening again.

Those were the days my friend. I used to get so many compliments in whispers when I won fights years back because Warrior was so underrated. The fan mail was amazing and encouraging to continue mastering the class, and even if I lost people would call me brave for running warrior when no one else would.

Sure it was unviable, and baby tier, but honestly? I enjoyed coming out on top despite it’s shortcomings, for the recognition.

PistolWhip.2697:

lighter.2708:

back in the days, warrior used to be extremly bad because people can kill it with auto attack, healing signet was a band-aid but its happening again.

Those were the days my friend. I used to get so many compliments in whispers when I won fights years back because Warrior was so underrated. The fan mail was amazing and encouraging to continue mastering the class, and even if I lost people would call me brave for running warrior when no one else would.

Sure it was unviable, and baby tier, but honestly? I enjoyed coming out on top despite it’s shortcomings, for the recognition.

Lol indeed, i still remember people saying stuff like “i admire your dedication towards warrior” in Qs

edit: i deleted my last comment because i think it was off topic abit :p

lighter.2708:

PistolWhip.2697:

lighter.2708:

back in the days, warrior used to be extremly bad because people can kill it with auto attack, healing signet was a band-aid but its happening again.

Those were the days my friend. I used to get so many compliments in whispers when I won fights years back because Warrior was so underrated. The fan mail was amazing and encouraging to continue mastering the class, and even if I lost people would call me brave for running warrior when no one else would.

Sure it was unviable, and baby tier, but honestly? I enjoyed coming out on top despite it’s shortcomings, for the recognition.

Lol indeed, i still remember people saying stuff like “i admire your dedication towards warrior” in Qs

edit: i deleted my last comment because i think it was off topic abit :p

Off topic is the spice of life. If not for off topic, there would be no On-topic.

I think going back to shared Air and Fire cool down would be enough honestly.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Patchi.9061:

+1 to this post.

If i might add to it, other auto attack procs (such as IP on engineer) should not proc on auto attacks either. It promotes passive play on engi making it extremley powerful in 1vs1s and Teamfights by constantly applyin poison and burn on auto attacks.

As for the people claiming that it would destroy certain specs of the build.. (s/d thief/power rangers) you are already getting a damage boost and should consider trait swaps if you really want to invest in damage. There is little trade-off for investing all trait lines to survivability when you have air/fire proc and procs such as IP on auto attacks. Logic dictates, if you want damage you trait for damage, damage should be subtracted otherwise. (the fact the s/d acro offers the same sustained damage as critstrike s/d in 1 minute justifies my arguement.)

Thieves and Mesmers are counting on those kind of procs to be viable. Even the full damage traited. Without Air/Fire, Thieves and mesmers will be totally pushed out of the meta, despite the small buffs they get with upcoming trait changes (not to mention mesmer is already out of the meta in top tier). Everyone will play cele bruiser if they would remove air/fire. So.much.fun.

Also; thieves and mesmer had enough nerfs that they’re on the edge of extinction in PvP.

Unless you’re offering something in return to burst builds to compensate:

SAY NO TO BRAINDEAD CELE!

SAY NO TO KEEPING SOMETHING BROKEN JUST TO KEEP AWAY SOMETHING ELSE BROKEN.

In all seriousness, remove air/fire, then buff/nerf accordingly.

No one is suggesting Fire+Air gets removed in a vacuum, other things obviously need to happen at the same time. Doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be removed (reverting the CD sharing update would be my prefered choice).