Guild Wars 2

Subdue.5479:

I only made it through the first page of this thread and already I’m disgusted by the attitudes of the so-called “completionists.” What is the point of a leaderboard if progression is limited not by what the competitors are willing and able to do, but by what is available for them to do?

If anything, you “completionists” should be clamoring for more dailies, not less. You should be arguing for achievements to be harder, not easier. You should want the leaderboard to actually be a competition, where someone who is more hardcore, more willing to put forth the effort and devote the time, can move ahead of someone who simply is not.

I doubt the new achievements were added with you “completionists” in mind, but it’s exactly the sort of thing you needed.

Read my post above yours. And if it will make you feel better and less “disgusted” I shall make a confession. Yes, the system beat me. I am weak. I am not willing to spend 6 hours+ every single day of the year doing dailies in GW2. I loose. I quit. GG.

Subdue.5479:

The best thing ANet could do to make the leaderboard actually worth working towards is to make it so that there are so many options available for daily completions that no one could possibly do every single option every single day. Then the leaderboard would be about who worked through it faster, more efficiently, and more devotedly.

Then some poor soul would try to game it and play 18 hours per day doing dailies. He would be at the top. And perhaps dead few years later (remember the headlines about gamers playing for 40 hours and ending up dead). WoW tried to focus on doing hours of dailies at the start of current expansion. They later admitted it was a design mistake since it burned several people out. I am sure there is someone out there willing to grind dailies in GW2 for 10h each day. But that is not me and if GW2 is heading into this direction it is no longer my “one and only beloved game”. Simple as that.

Awe.1096:

Subdue.5479:

The best thing ANet could do to make the leaderboard actually worth working towards is to make it so that there are so many options available for daily completions that no one could possibly do every single option every single day. Then the leaderboard would be about who worked through it faster, more efficiently, and more devotedly.

Then some poor soul would try to game it and play 18 hours per day doing dailies. He would be at the top. And perhaps dead few years later (remember the headlines about gamers playing for 40 hours and ending up dead). WoW tried to focus on doing hours of dailies at the start of current expansion. They later admitted it was a design mistake since it burned several people out. I am sure there is someone out there willing to grind dailies in GW2 for 10h each day. But that is not me and if GW2 is heading into this direction it is no longer my “one and only beloved game”. Simple as that.

And quite frankly, that’s your call. You are in no way forced to do all the dailies. At most you could make an argument that because of the value of laurels and their time gated nature, you’re “forced”, and even then I use that term loosely, to do 5 of them. Those 5 take most likely 30 minutes max.

The nature of competition is that the best, most motivated, most devoted should be recognized as such. You don’t see athletes complaining that their fellow competitors are training too hard or too much. This isn’t any different.

Little off topic, I really thinking about buy 4k gems to get mini Mr. Sparkles. But if they didn’t change that. I will pass too, there is no more place for me in GW2.

Subdue.5479:

Awe.1096:

Subdue.5479:

The best thing ANet could do to make the leaderboard actually worth working towards is to make it so that there are so many options available for daily completions that no one could possibly do every single option every single day. Then the leaderboard would be about who worked through it faster, more efficiently, and more devotedly.

Then some poor soul would try to game it and play 18 hours per day doing dailies. He would be at the top. And perhaps dead few years later (remember the headlines about gamers playing for 40 hours and ending up dead). WoW tried to focus on doing hours of dailies at the start of current expansion. They later admitted it was a design mistake since it burned several people out. I am sure there is someone out there willing to grind dailies in GW2 for 10h each day. But that is not me and if GW2 is heading into this direction it is no longer my “one and only beloved game”. Simple as that.

And quite frankly, that’s your call. You are in no way forced to do all the dailies. At most you could make an argument that because of the value of laurels and their time gated nature, you’re “forced”, and even then I use that term loosely, to do 5 of them. Those 5 take most likely 30 minutes max.

The nature of competition is that the best, most motivated, most devoted should be recognized as such. You don’t see athletes complaining that their fellow competitors are training too hard or too much. This isn’t any different.

Then give players a competitive enviroment in which people want to compete in. We are hardcore players just like anyone else competing in other fashions, striving for hard achievements that few can complete (not because it takes a long time to do, but because of how hard it is to pull off). The simple fact is the system here is so bad that people don’t want to cope with it, most completionists that care about these type of systems would rather move on to other games because of how little compelling it is. Spending 6-7 hours of your day doing the same tasks is something I don’t see a lot of players doing, especially when in this case the content we are forced to repeat for the most part is pretty boring (PvE dailies) every day, and then again we have to do a certain gametype for 4-5 hours a day on top of that. As much as I love PvP and achievements (I’m mainly a PvP player who enjoys that tons more than PvE) the fact that if I decide that I want to do something else one day and lose out on these points will give me a disadvantage just shows that this is a kittenty system. A good achievement system shouldn’t have a lot of temporary achievements, because that leaves out every single player that can’t play every day and whoever buys the game after it has launched.

Of course we as players with a passion for achievements want to give our feedback on the matter, but it’s seems like that our feedback will be ignored. And to be frank, if that is what ArenaNet wants then that is not a problem, we have other games we can play. But they can’t say we didn’t give them the warning. We did tell them that we are not fine with this and we won’t be staying around if this is how they intend to “evolve” the system. Before we used to have to do 2 hours of repetitive content before we could move on and work on whatever we wanted, now it is 6. It’s a big difference, and in alot of eyes not an acceptable one.

So sure, whoever can cope with this system will rise to the top among the significantly smaller community of players, and you can argue those are the “best” and most motivated achievement hunters. But that would be because of the lack of competition and most likeminded players decided to quit.

Just imagine if they took a massive dump on PvP and every PvP player quit except a few, you could still say “But you don’t have to play PvP you know?”. A true PvP player wouldn’t go do PvE if that happened, they would find another PvP game. It’s the same thing.

Rigel.5789:

Just imagine if they took a massive dump on PvP and every PvP player quit except a few, you could still say “But you don’t have to play PvP you know?”. A true PvP player wouldn’t go do PvE if that happened, they would find another PvP game. It’s the same thing.

That last part about PvP sounds Vaguely familiar…………………..

Darnis.4056:

Rigel.5789:

Just imagine if they took a massive dump on PvP and every PvP player quit except a few, you could still say “But you don’t have to play PvP you know?”. A true PvP player wouldn’t go do PvE if that happened, they would find another PvP game. It’s the same thing.

That last part about PvP sounds Vaguely familiar…………………..

I know it does, but do you really wish it on another community aswell? I think there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread about a lot of things. I think most of us can relate to the scenario here.

We don’t want the achievement leaderboards to be the meaningless “who can grind the most dailies”-board. But with the system we had (even though very flawed) a lot of players have coped with the 2 hour daily grind so it has still been sort of competitive. Since that was the case, who did most of everything else has still mattered. After this, that will probably not be the case for very long. Over time it will show who will bother and who won’t and the very select few that does these dailies will rise to the top. (Likelyhood is that those who won’t will just quit the game because the 2h grind in itself really isn’t worth it for game enjoyment, it’s the rest of the achievements that are but with a 6h grind every day you will never get to them, and if you ignore them you can’t stay competitive).

Most of the hardcore completionists are players who really work hard to improve their game, to be the best they can be and achieve the hardest things games has to offer. We aren’t casual PvE players who just point at something and cry if we can’t get it because we aren’t good enough. Although this is a matter of a nonsensical and boring grind, not player skill in any way so it is a huge turn off. You could of course argue you can get dailies done faster if you have more skill, that is very true. But the fact that you completed it does not automatically make you skilled.

@Rigel:

Have you ever missed a daily? I’d be very surprised if your answer is no, you’ve gotten every single daily every single day since launch. There’s nothing wrong with that, just like there’s nothing wrong with you opting not to do the pvp dailies. You and these other completionists aren’t really complaining that there’s more to do. You’re complaining that you don’t want to do it AND – this is the key – you don’t want other people to be able to do it either. Why shouldn’t someone who is willing to spend an extra 4 hours a day for a few extra AP be able to do so?

Like I said before, what you completionists need isn’t less stuff to do, it’s more. There should be so much stuff to do that it is impossible to do all of it every single day. That way it becomes less about filling a quota and more about strategically approaching dailies as efficiently as possible.

Also, you talk about player skill in a previous post. Even though there is some luck involved in the pvp dailies, skill plays a far bigger role in those than it does in the gather 20 items daily, or the use mystic forge 5 times daily. I don’t see anyone complaining about those though.

Subdue.5479:

@Rigel:

Have you ever missed a daily? I’d be very surprised if your answer is no, you’ve gotten every single daily every single day since launch. There’s nothing wrong with that, just like there’s nothing wrong with you opting not to do the pvp dailies. You and these other completionists aren’t really complaining that there’s more to do. You’re complaining that you don’t want to do it AND – this is the key – you don’t want other people to be able to do it either. Why shouldn’t someone who is willing to spend an extra 4 hours a day for a few extra AP be able to do so?

Like I said before, what you completionists need isn’t less stuff to do, it’s more. There should be so much stuff to do that it is impossible to do all of it every single day. That way it becomes less about filling a quota and more about strategically approaching dailies as efficiently as possible.

Also, you talk about player skill in a previous post. Even though there is some luck involved in the pvp dailies, skill plays a far bigger role in those than it does in the gather 20 items daily, or the use mystic forge 5 times daily. I don’t see anyone complaining about those though.

They aren’t mad that there’s “no skill” involved – they’re mad that there IS skill involved, skill which they do not possess.

This entire thread is nothing but “I’m pvp illiterate, but I want to win, kitten it!”

Subdue.5479:

@Rigel:

Have you ever missed a daily? I’d be very surprised if your answer is no, you’ve gotten every single daily every single day since launch. There’s nothing wrong with that, just like there’s nothing wrong with you opting not to do the pvp dailies. You and these other completionists aren’t really complaining that there’s more to do. You’re complaining that you don’t want to do it AND – this is the key – you don’t want other people to be able to do it either. Why shouldn’t someone who is willing to spend an extra 4 hours a day for a few extra AP be able to do so?

Like I said before, what you completionists need isn’t less stuff to do, it’s more. There should be so much stuff to do that it is impossible to do all of it every single day. That way it becomes less about filling a quota and more about strategically approaching dailies as efficiently as possible.

The more mandatory hours you put in, the less competitive it will be because less players will want to cope with it (remember we are talking about doing it every day here). That is the problem. With 6-7 hours a day as a requirement to get all dailies, there is only a very select few who will want to do it. Most of us enjoy achievements in general and preferably the regular achievements over the dailies, the dailies is just the grind we have to get through before we can move on to what we want to progress in that day. I personally would’ve liked it if dailies didn’t award points at all, I’m not a very big fan of temporary achievements. But I coped with it cause at launch I enjoyed the game, and afterwards I’ve been too invested and not really seen it as a big enough reason to quit. It was okay to begin with because it only took 15 minutes every day, but that number keeps rising with every patch. Before this patch it had reached two hours, and it’s not the evolution a completionist would like to see.

You can stretch the “Why shouldn’t someone who is willing to spend an extra 4 hours a day for a few extra AP be able to do so?” to 6 hours, maybe even 8 or what about 25 hours, impossible to do all so whoever spends the most time gets the most points? But it’s no longer for completionists if you can’t do everything, so what you describe simply doesn’t appeal to us. We want more stuff to do, but more permanent stuff, not temporary stuff.
Most of the completionists don’t really enjoy this part of the system, so if this becomes a reality we will move on to a more compelling system. If they want to make the achievement max only available to people who wanna do 4 hours of PvP a day then sure, but that makes for a pretty bad achievement system in my opinion. It’s now a matter of completing but grinding the same easy tasks over and over. You will have that matter more than who completed a majority of the permanent achievements (and yes I am aware a majority of these are easy aswell, but I wish they weren’t).

These include hard permanent PvP achievements aswell, I would very much appreciate that good PvPers were awarded, it would give us a challenge and something to stretch towards. In the end those who put alot of effort and tiem into the game will be getting a lot of the permanent achievements anyway so the whole “effort” thing that has been brought up will still apply. It’s just that the system should be compelling enough that people want to put in the effort. Making a bad system only to say those that don’t enjoy it aren’t deserving is just a bad excuse not to make a good system where also skill would come into play.

The thing is, the daily system was never designed for people to be striving to complete every single possible daily every single day. That you completionists have decided they want to do that is entirely you.

The purpose of dailies is to reward people for hopping on every day and playing the game in whatever way they want to play. That’s why you can often get the minimum 5 dailies for the reward while doing other things. It is in that line of thought that new PvP dailies were added, as a boon to players who only enjoy PvP, so that they’re not always getting the shaft when it comes to AP.

You’re free to enjoy the game in whatever way you like. You want to grab every single daily every single day, great! But for you to sit there and point to a daily that’s intended to make things better for a historically marginalized group of players because it doesn’t fit with your own notion of how you want to play the game, well, that’s just wrong on so many levels.

If A.Net were to add even more dailies, or heck, just make all of the possible dailies available every day, most players would benefit, not just because there would be more potential AP going around, but because they’d be more free to play the game however they want, which is what A.Net is going for.

If for some reason you can’t cope with not grabbing every single daily every single day, and the new PvP dailies are as traumatic to your enjoyment of the game as you claim, that’s a personal problem, not a problem with the game.

Subdue.5479:

The thing is, the daily system was never designed for people to be striving to complete every single possible daily every single day. That you completionists have decided they want to do that is entirely you.

The purpose of dailies is to reward people for hopping on every day and playing the game in whatever way they want to play. That’s why you can often get the minimum 5 dailies for the reward while doing other things. It is in that line of thought that new PvP dailies were added, as a boon to players who only enjoy PvP, so that they’re not always getting the shaft when it comes to AP.

You’re free to enjoy the game in whatever way you like. You want to grab every single daily every single day, great! But for you to sit there and point to a daily that’s intended to make things better for a historically marginalized group of players because it doesn’t fit with your own notion of how you want to play the game, well, that’s just wrong on so many levels.

If A.Net were to add even more dailies, or heck, just make all of the possible dailies available every day, most players would benefit, not just because there would be more potential AP going around, but because they’d be more free to play the game however they want, which is what A.Net is going for.

If for some reason you can’t cope with not grabbing every single daily every single day, and the new PvP dailies are as traumatic to your enjoyment of the game as you claim, that’s a personal problem, not a problem with the game.

The daily system can still be in place without flooding the game with AP. Most regular achievements give way less points than dailies in terms of time spent. Most other MMOs have an actual achievement system with permanent achievements awarding the points so you can actually compare the score. This is what triggers completionists, if ArenaNet doesn’t want to compell completionists to play the game that is their loss. They didn’t have to make all the other fluff to give everyone else a reason to care about the points, they could’ve made the system more compelling from scratch so it would truly mean something.

“But for you to sit there and point to a daily that’s intended to make things better for a historically marginalized group of players because it doesn’t fit with your own notion of how you want to play the game, well, that’s just wrong on so many levels.”

Why is it right that it’s there when it makes the game even worse for another group of players? You do realize your argument works both ways. You telling me that my opinion is wrong is what’s wrong on so many levels. I respect it if others have a different opinion, but this is the tip of the iceberg that will make a lot of completionists leave the game whether you like it or not. How you want to weight that against some PvP players getting a few APs is up to you. I know for sure if I was purely a PvP player I wouldn’t care one bit about AP.

They want to make everyone be able to play the game the way they want to you say, but you forget that there are completionists in this game that also quite enjoy collecting achievements but we can’t play the game we want to because of all the dailies that are in our way.

If they removed dailies altogether and balanced permanent achievements between PvE and PvP it wouldn’t even be needed to sit here and say “PvP population needs more achievement points”.

If ArenaNet doesn’t want to attract the completionist population of the gaming world that is entirely their decision, but making a trainwreck of the system certainly won’t attract them. We have on numerous occasions suggested changes to the dailies (capping it at 5 points per day for instance in the QoL thread) and so on. Everyone would still get their laurel, gold, exp and ap rewards in a fair manner balanced across PvE and PvP, but instead of listening to our feedback they go the other way around and add even more dailies to grind through ofcourse we react. And if this is the way they want to go then there are very few that will cope with it. There are players who get their full enjoyment out of the game from the fact they are a completionist, and usually there is a lot to do in an MMO on a permanent basis (they don’t need to add repetitive daily stuff to the mix because there isn’t enough permanent stuff). When players that aren’t completionist come and say we are wrong about how to make a good achievement system for players who enjoy that type of thing I find that rather surrealistic.

SpelignErrir.4263:

They aren’t mad that there’s “no skill” involved – they’re mad that there IS skill involved, skill which they do not possess.

This entire thread is nothing but “I’m pvp illiterate, but I want to win, kitten it!”

I cant take seriously anyone who claims that it takes skill to do dailies in GW2. And I think I know something about it as I didnt missed a single daily up until few days ago when I decided to quit. And no, new sPvP daily does not need skill as well. The better PvP gamer you are, the better players you will face and your win ratio will always drift towards 50% in the long run. But of course you have to berate people around with notoriously classic style of “lol you have no skill, learn to play noob”. And I dare to say that most of the people from top of the AP leaderboards have more GW2 skill than you. Simply becouse they play a lot and experience always translates to skill gain to some degree. Unless you have something to show to prove otherwise.

TLDR: You dont have much clue about what is the purpose of this thread. You just assume that it is about “QQ, I dont know how to win games in PvP”. Well, you are wrong.

Subdue.5479:

The thing is, the daily system was never designed for people to be striving to complete every single possible daily every single day. That you completionists have decided they want to do that is entirely you.

Are you a game designer from Arena? If no, how can you know with what purpose AP system in GW2 was designed? All we can do is judge how it works based on the implemented version. And AP system in September 2012 was much different from the one we have today. So what it is the design goal? I will take an answer from someone with the Arena tag next to his name. Not from someone who just claims facts basing on own prejudices.

Subdue.5479:

If for some reason you can’t cope with not grabbing every single daily every single day, and the new PvP dailies are as traumatic to your enjoyment of the game as you claim, that’s a personal problem, not a problem with the game.

That is true. But by extension we can tell the same about pretty much any grievances people have towards this game.

Only zerker gear valid?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
Ascended grind bad?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
Hammer warrior OP?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
WvW is just zerg?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.

And so on. The purpose of the forum is to provide feedback. There will always be people who like X and people who dislike X.

While it’s true that the requirements for wins are a bit high, you are taking this and achievements in general too seriously.

Glad there is already a thread about this. I’m an avid achievement hunter and these new dailies are frustrating me to no end.

Solo Queue is 99% RNG, and you have to win 5 times. If you have unlucky streaks, that might take 20 matches. That’s up to 5 hours for 2 achievement points.

How about changing these achievements to:
Tier 1 – play 1 solo/team queue
Tier 2 – play 2 solo/team queue

That would make it a little more on par with all other dailies and would actually bring more people into pvp. Right now forcing people to play hours on end is alienating a lot of players from pvp and from the game as a whole.

Rigel.5789:

The daily system can still be in place without flooding the game with AP. Most regular achievements give way less points than dailies in terms of time spent. Most other MMOs have an actual achievement system with permanent achievements awarding the points so you can actually compare the score. This is what triggers completionists, if ArenaNet doesn’t want to compell completionists to play the game that is their loss. They didn’t have to make all the other fluff to give everyone else a reason to care about the points, they could’ve made the system more compelling from scratch so it would truly mean something.

Woah woah woah. You need to make a distinction here. Are completionists doing what they do because they like completing content, or are they doing it for a spot on the leaderboard? If it’s because they like completing content, then dailies have nothing to do with it, since dailies can never and will never be complete. If on the other hand, completionists are doing it to be on the leaderboard, then having MORE to do not LESS is a good thing, because it leaves more room for differentiation.

And again, you’re not even arguing that completionists don’t want to do the content. If that were the case, it would be a non-issue. If no one wanted to do the content, then nothing at all would change on the leaderboard. You’re arguing that you don’t want the completionists who are willing to do the content to be able to do it, because they might be able to move ahead of those who aren’t.

Why is it right that it’s there when it makes the game even worse for another group of players? You do realize your argument works both ways. You telling me that my opinion is wrong is what’s wrong on so many levels. I respect it if others have a different opinion, but this is the tip of the iceberg that will make a lot of completionists leave the game whether you like it or not. How you want to weight that against some PvP players getting a few APs is up to you. I know for sure if I was purely a PvP player I wouldn’t care one bit about AP.

They want to make everyone be able to play the game the way they want to you say, but you forget that there are completionists in this game that also quite enjoy collecting achievements but we can’t play the game we want to because of all the dailies that are in our way.

There’s something inherently different between wanting something and not wanting others to have something. And I’m sorry, AP results in free skins, gold, gems, PVP Gear, and so on. So yes, a PvP player would care about AP.

If they removed dailies altogether and balanced permanent achievements between PvE and PvP it wouldn’t even be needed to sit here and say “PvP population needs more achievement points”.

Uh, MMOs and generally most games without a subscription have a daily reward in place that keeps players hopping on at least once a day. This keeps the game active. Getting rid of the dailies would be detrimental to the game.

Awe.1096:

Subdue.5479:

The thing is, the daily system was never designed for people to be striving to complete every single possible daily every single day. That you completionists have decided they want to do that is entirely you.

Are you a game designer from Arena? If no, how can you know with what purpose AP system in GW2 was designed? All we can do is judge how it works based on the implemented version. And AP system in September 2012 was much different from the one we have today. So what it is the design goal? I will take an answer from someone with the Arena tag next to his name. Not from someone who just claims facts basing on own prejudices.

Uh, a daily reward for basically just showing up is not unique to GW2 bud. Every single MMO, especially those which are F2P, has some sort of mechanic that is meant to reward people for playing the game on a daily basis. It’s to keep people there every day, as motivation for them not to take long breaks. This is nothing new.

Awe.1096:

That is true. But by extension we can tell the same about pretty much any grievances people have towards this game.

Only zerker gear valid?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
Ascended grind bad?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
Hammer warrior OP?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.
WvW is just zerg?
Its not a problem with a game. Its your personal problem that you dont like it.

And so on. The purpose of the forum is to provide feedback. There will always be people who like X and people who dislike X.

Yes, clearly commentary on balance issues is synonymous with complaints about additional rewards being available for people who choose to seek them.

/sarcasm

Sorry, I’ll take your arguments more clearly when you can come up with a reason other than “I don’t want people who are willing to do the additional achievements to be able to move ahead of those who aren’t.” Because right now, that’s all it is. It’s not that you believe all completionists don’t want the option to be there. If that were the case, then the leaderboard would not change one bit. It’s that you don’t want the option to be there because some completionists might take up the challenge and do it, thus moving them up the boards.

i can not really understand why there is no statement of anet yet?
i guess they do no really what they should do now?

please just tell the community something…

I still don’t understand how finally allowing Pvpers to break 2k achievement points (yes this is the majority of my friends) hurts these achievement hunters who can’t afford to pvp and win matches…

Subdue.5479:

Woah woah woah. You need to make a distinction here. Are completionists doing what they do because they like completing content, or are they doing it for a spot on the leaderboard? If it’s because they like completing content, then dailies have nothing to do with it, since dailies can never and will never be complete. If on the other hand, completionists are doing it to be on the leaderboard, then having MORE to do not LESS is a good thing, because it leaves more room for differentiation.

If they removed dailies altogether and balanced permanent achievements between PvE and PvP it wouldn’t even be needed to sit here and say “PvP population needs more achievement points”.

Uh, MMOs and generally most games without a subscription have a daily reward in place that keeps players hopping on at least once a day. This keeps the game active. Getting rid of the dailies would be detrimental to the game.

You don’t seem to understand what a completionist is all about, all of us did all dailies and everything even before the leaderboards. Getting a maximum amount of achievement points we can possibly get is ofcourse what drives us, that involves doing all dailies. The leaderboards aren’t the bane of our existance, we just want to complete the game as much as we possibly can. The dailies are fine, the way they award achievement points however should be reconsidered. Gold, exp, laurels and all the other stuff is already enough of a reason to do them for most players. Name another game that bases their achievement point system around dailies that people actually care about.

Subdue.5479:

There’s something inherently different between wanting something and not wanting others to have something. And I’m sorry, AP results in free skins, gold, gems, PVP Gear, and so on. So yes, a PvP player would care about AP.

I have to laugh at this, as mainly a PvP player I couldn’t really care less about free skins and most of the junky achievement rewards, neither do a majority of my PvP friends. Getting some free gold and gems every 5k points may be nice, but if all you do is PvP dailies it will take you 2 years in between every 5k chest. 30 gold every 2 years, it is nothing compared to what you will make from anything else in the game. And by the logic of the PvP community in this thread, why should they get it if they don’t want to put in the effort of doing achievements? Getting it through dailies is the long way around. If the rewards were so worthwhile, why did nobody care enough to go and do the easy achievements so they could actually get it before? I highly doubt this will change anything in a regular PvPers to itch for achievement points more than before.

I have to split my response into two posts cause of it’s length.

Subdue.5479:

Sorry, I’ll take your arguments more clearly when you can come up with a reason other than “I don’t want people who are willing to do the additional achievements to be able to move ahead of those who aren’t.” Because right now, that’s all it is. It’s not that you believe all completionists don’t want the option to be there. If that were the case, then the leaderboard would not change one bit. It’s that you don’t want the option to be there because some completionists might take up the challenge and do it, thus moving them up the boards.

Another response that shows you have no idea what you are talking about. The problem is the fact that the achievements are TEMPORARY. It breaks the system, and you are ignoring all the arguments we have brought up around this. Why do you come back, pick out a few lines and respond with the same points over and over when we have already responded to them? What you have against completionists I do not know, but it is quite obvious that you do not want to accept that we oppose this system. I’ll take any permanent achievements any day, even if I can’t do them now, I’ll always have the possibility to do it in the future. If you miss dailies you can never get them back, we used to be able to let this pass by since it was feasible to do them all every day (but there were already plenty of complaints about it before). That is not the case anymore. A lot of completionists already dropped out of the game because they couldn’t cope with the dailies, those of us who are left accepted that we had to spend 30 minutes a day and because we did like the game enough to say it was a worthwhile thing to do. With that increasing steadily, more and more are dropping off, and with the extreme 7 hours it is currently at it will die off completely.

And the fact that you refer to dailies as “more content” is a complete joke. It isn’t more content, it’s just reusing the same old content over and over. There is no achievement in repeating the same task every day. I also personally don’t care much for the leaderboards. You make it sound like the leaderboard is supposed to be some sort of competition for “who can grind most dailies and spend most time in the game”. We are completionists, we want challenging permanent content and the ability to actually complete it. Missable content is a completionists’ worst enemy. For a leaderboard system to be successful it needs to have hard temporary achievements to make the differentiation, not temporary achievements making it impossible to ever climb the board. Oh but I notice the pattern, you will probably grab the last few lines and respond with “That’s why you add so many temporary achievements you can still climb the leaderboards if you spend the time”. As if we never responded to that, but then I suggest you read the posts once again and you will already have your answer.

For that reason, if Anet wants to turn it into a “who can do most daily grind every day”-system then that is not a system a completionist will be satisfied with, thus going elsewhere to find something that actually feels satisfying to work towards completion on. It would be nice to get an official response confirming what their ideals for the system is so we can decide whether or not our investment in this game should continue or not.

Subdue.5479:

Uh, a daily reward for basically just showing up is not unique to GW2 bud. Every single MMO, especially those which are F2P, has some sort of mechanic that is meant to reward people for playing the game on a daily basis. It’s to keep people there every day, as motivation for them not to take long breaks. This is nothing new.

Please list me MMO-s where you have daily tasks which are a form of a progression (AP are progression for AP hunters) and are unlimited + time exclusive. I dont claim there are none but I highly doubt that is any form of standard as you paint it to be. Unless you mean a standard for some niche titles I would probably not even consider to play, and for a good reason. Becouse from all MMO-s I ever played, GW2 is the only one with such system. For example in WoW there are daily quests. Lots of them. But those quests are done for reputation and/or some sort of currency. Reputations are capped which means that if you skip a day or two, you will reach the finish line anyway, just few days later (becouse there is a finish line, unlike in GW2 AP). And currency is also capped since eventually there is nothing more you can buy for it and it becomes useless. And as for achievements there, all AP in game are permanent and if there is some very rare time-exclusive one, it always gives 0 AP. The same applies to all (with one obvious exception) MMO-s with AP system I have ever played. GW2 is the only one where not only you have temporary achievements, but you are in fact flooded with them (daily, monthly, living story).

Subdue.5479:

Sorry, I’ll take your arguments more clearly when you can come up with a reason other than “I don’t want people who are willing to do the additional achievements to be able to move ahead of those who aren’t.” Because right now, that’s all it is. It’s not that you believe all completionists don’t want the option to be there.

So far I did not seen a single declared completionist in this thread who would claim that he likes where the system is heading. Only people who are ridiculing our concerns are alleged PvP masters who claim that they dont care about AP (so why even bother with this thread?) and that AP hunters are just QQ-ing becouse they lack PvP skills and endurance.

This is ridiculous; We can’t have Games instead of wins in Pvp, this encourages afkers, which is really the way that Achievement hunters play PVP.

Darnis.4056:

This is ridiculous; We can’t have Games instead of wins in Pvp, this encourages afkers, which is really the way that Achievement hunters play PVP.

I agree that it should be wins. But not 8. Why not 1 or 2? Besides, AFK-ing is not something that defines AP hunters. Being an AFK-er is a separate thing. The problem is when someone is an AP hunter and an AFK-er. In this case those achievements will bring you some AFK-ers into PvP. But I for example never AFK in a match. On the contrary. I am one of those “serious business” type of people and each time I spot an AFK-er in my team, I rage so much on the chat that I am actually balancing on the edge of risking a ban. Talking about how the AFK-er is a terrible human being without respect to others people time and so on. I need to fight with myself to not use profanities to avoid being reported. I always give my 100% when doing PvP as I see being an AFK-er would be a disgrace for my precious e-honor.

Darnis.4056:

This is ridiculous; We can’t have Games instead of wins in Pvp, this encourages afkers, which is really the way that Achievement hunters play PVP.

Completionists always work towards achievements. Whenever I do PvP I want to win to progress my win achievement, naturally. You can’t come in here and claim to know how completionists play PvP when you aren’t one. And to have said it, I don’t think changing it to games would fix the core problem. It would still take many hours to do the dailies. 8 tournament matches a day including queue times would still take 2-3 hours, when all completionists have been asking for less timewaste on dailies and more permanent achievement progression instead.

Rigel.5789:

Darnis.4056:

This is ridiculous; We can’t have Games instead of wins in Pvp, this encourages afkers, which is really the way that Achievement hunters play PVP.

Completionists always work towards achievements. Whenever I do PvP I want to win to progress my win achievement, naturally. You can’t come in here and claim to know how completionists play PvP when you aren’t one. And to have said it, I don’t think changing it to games would fix the core problem. It would still take many hours to do the dailies. 8 tournament matches a day including queue times would still take 2-3 hours, when all completionists have been asking for less timewaste on dailies and more permanent achievement progression instead.

If you’re playing to win then you wouldn’t mind wins on matches. Instead you’re asking to revert to the original system which was heavily exploded by afker pve players or as you call them achievement hunters..

Adminir.8140:

Exactly. It is mind boggling how people seem to think AP hunters are all “PvE heroes.” There is a significant amount of AP’s tied to all aspects of the game and AP hunters dabble in everything equally. If they were to stick solely to PvE, I guarantee they would not be in the top 100.

PvPers see anything outside of pvp as PvE. WvW is included. You are willing to do PvE stuffs for AP, thusly you are a PvE hero.

Darnis.4056:

Rigel.5789:

Darnis.4056:

This is ridiculous; We can’t have Games instead of wins in Pvp, this encourages afkers, which is really the way that Achievement hunters play PVP.

Completionists always work towards achievements. Whenever I do PvP I want to win to progress my win achievement, naturally. You can’t come in here and claim to know how completionists play PvP when you aren’t one. And to have said it, I don’t think changing it to games would fix the core problem. It would still take many hours to do the dailies. 8 tournament matches a day including queue times would still take 2-3 hours, when all completionists have been asking for less timewaste on dailies and more permanent achievement progression instead.

If you’re playing to win then you wouldn’t mind wins on matches. Instead you’re asking to revert to the original system which was heavily exploded by afker pve players or as you call them achievement hunters..

Did you even read the thread? The issue is the time requirement to keep up with all the daily achievements, winning 8 matches a day can easily take 4-5 hours with average teams. I suggest you read the thread instead of replying prematurely, all your claims will make no sense otherwise.

These new dailies have to be removed. They’re impossible to get in a certain time or expect you to have the luck to get the correct team

Tuesday: 4 of 5 matches won
Wednesday: 1 of 3 matches won
Thursday: 0 of 3 matches won
Friday: 0 of 3 matches won
Saturday: 0 of 3 matches won

Seriously. yoloQ dailies is the worst dailies ever made. Actually yoloQ is the worst ever made.
Make the daily all tournaments or only team tournaments. Because in team tournaments you can actually talk to your guildies or friends about a different strategy and they listen.

Solo queue is such a terrible experience. One win in 70min :/ So many games unneccarily lost because your team fails to do the basic.

For an average of 50% ratio, you have to play 18 games.
If we count 20min/game (5min loading, 15min match), PvP daily need 400min!!

400 min = 6h40 per day JUST for PvP !!

If we count after 3-4h to finish daily pve , you need approximately 10 hours if you want to get all daily points!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WTF !!!?

2:52 after reset and 5 soloQ wins done. Now TeamQ

I spend almost 20 hours on these new pvp daily since the wintersday patch
5 hours each day for just 4 daily quests, not inclub the times i spend on other daily or play wvw.

20min for 1 round, i have to play more then 16 match to get 8 wins if I’m lucky, THAT MORE THEN 5 HOURS A DAY.

Things are totally wrong here

A.net you make your best game become a TORTURING

Well, I’m an achievement hunter (18k+), a completionist, and I feel to give my contribution to this discussion, ’cause so many people are talking without any knowledge of what people like me do to reach any goal.

We don’t play to be afkers or similar, but to reach a goal, and in this case means we play to win. I can talk about me, someone who played only pvp on GW for 3 years (after getting 37 completed titles) and where I used to be a caller (tactician and team leader) for almost every team, I have to join a solo-match where almost everyone don’t talk to the other mates and play randomly, without any idea of what they are doing, even if you give them instructions.

With this add, ArenaNet didn’t implement a way to get people close to pvp, but a new way to ruin it. What everyone wants here, it’s a reply from any dev, something like “we’re thinking about it/we’re working on it/it’s a test/we don’t care about your opinion/etc…” not an absolute nothing.

I hope you understand that’s it’s not an achievement hunter frustration only, but a pvper frustration too, because THIS IS NOT the way to get people close to sPvP.

no time for guid missions sry guys….

how you make people to do some things you want?

Blizzard : we make a token or gear only the player do what we want 10K times can have them
Blizzard : Oh and, we keep update reward, people will happy to be our slave forever.

A.net : We put a achiv point on it and make it become daily, force them to do it
A.net : WE THINK THIS IS COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!

I saw the new dailies and I just said “I’m not going to pursue those. I haven’t got that kind of time.” I can’t. Solo Q relies too much on people knowing what to do and with these new dailies, there seems to be even more people running around playing badly.

No team who wants to win will just start picking up people. I would have to conjure my own team of people who have that much time to practice… for 1 AP/day.

I want the AP, don’t get me wrong. But these are impossible for me because I just don’t have the time. I could do the original 3 in three matches, which I found a bit easy, but reasonable. I could always get at least double the wins and captures within 3 matches anyway. Between the normal dailies and the sPvP dailies, it would take me over 6 hours (estimate) to get everything, 2-3 for one, 3-4 for the other.

So I give them up. GL AP hunters. 07

Use the LFG tool to do team PvP.

I was pleasantly surprised by how good a group I ended up with, won 4 out 5 games with no teamspeak.

Actually found it far easier than solo q and you get x2 and a bit glory as well!

Kuzzi.2198:

Glad there is already a thread about this. I’m an avid achievement hunter and these new dailies are frustrating me to no end.

Solo Queue is 99% RNG, and you have to win 5 times. If you have unlucky streaks, that might take 20 matches. That’s up to 5 hours for 2 achievement points.

How about changing these achievements to:
Tier 1 – play 1 solo/team queue
Tier 2 – play 2 solo/team queue

That would make it a little more on par with all other dailies and would actually bring more people into pvp. Right now forcing people to play hours on end is alienating a lot of players from pvp and from the game as a whole.

Not a good idea because a lot of player will just afk during the game ; the goal in tournament pvp is to win, so daily achivement need to go the same way.

Meglobob.8620:

Use the LFG tool to do team PvP.

I was pleasantly surprised by how good a group I ended up with, won 4 out 5 games with no teamspeak.

Actually found it far easier than solo q and you get x2 and a bit glory as well!

Yes good advice, yesterday I did that. My Advertise clearly said r40+ and after match I had one guy with r1 and second time got two people with r1 so bad luck. over 6h for pvp. Today was lucky day and did it in 3,5h -.-

all the voice like
“I think these 4 new daily are good, stop QQ”
or
“no one force you to get those 4 point, you QQ AP hunters.”
are all gone.

1. They finally realize how wrong of these things after wasted 5 or 6 hours per day on these 4 daily again and again then again by them self.

2. They don’t really care about these PVP or Achivment things. They just play for FUN

A.NET you better realize, only the one who really love SPVP or Achivment system will conplain this.

Yes, the people you are totally againsting right now .

I will have burnout from gaming and not from real life work because of this soon

4 victories SoloQ in 2 hours not so bad…

Tell me, is that a sin to play as a achivment hunter???

YES, it’s a sin to play as a achivment hunter " IN Guild Wars 2"

Almost 5h …. ty Anet !

i think the new PvP achievements should worth more achievement points because of the effort required.

this way, PvP players would have a chance at higher achievement points.
proposed changes:

Solo Arena Three Wins – 10 AP
Team Arena Two Wins – 20 AP
Five Total Solo Arena Wins – 20 AP
Three Total Team Arena Wins – 50 AP

this way, pure PvP players may be able to earn 100 AP per day. i feel this is more justified.

by the way, i do not play solo arena or team arena, but i believe more daily AP should be awarded for solo arena wins and team arena wins.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

i think the new PvP achievements should worth more achievement points because of the effort required.

this way, PvP players would have a chance at higher achievement points.
proposed changes:

Solo Arena Three Wins – 10 AP
Team Arena Two Wins – 20 AP
Five Total Solo Arena Wins – 20 AP
Three Total Team Arena Wins – 50 AP

this way, pure PvP players may be able to earn 100 AP per day. i feel this is more justified.

by the way, i do not play solo arena or team arena, but i believe more daily AP should be awarded for solo arena wins and team arena wins.

Not sure if serious or just trolling…
This would just make the whole achievement system PvP-only. If this was to be implemented, it would take around 3 months for the AP gained from PvP dailies (not counting the ones earned before the update) to overcome the AP from permanent achievements.
Do I really have to explain why this is silly?

Well, without any reply from a dev about this situation, it’s pointless keeping the discussion up.

Really, now almost 90% matches are unplayable, and people on my guild playing sPvP are thinking about leaving everything. I was thinking to get closer to PvP before the patch, but I gave up in like 2 days, this situation is not what a people want to PLAY.

Good job ArenaNet, this time you’ve done a great job on the PvP community, and yet nobody of you give us explanation of anything. Go on on this way, and you’ll have for sure an e-sport as PvP.