Guild Wars 2

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Lexander.4579:

i think you can just trust Anet and take their word that the system is based for skill and unworthy players wont be able to grind anymore unless they abuse MMR in some way (like many did in s1)

Really, then how do you explain that I had a 100+ losing game streak and got stuck at emerald tier 1 for 3 weeks, and tanked my mmr/win/loss ratio, and had to spend countless days teaching brand new players how to pvp against pro league teams of 3 and 4 while I was in solo q. At that time, people told me, after years of pvping on gw, that I was in the tier/div I belonged.

I am now 3 pips from diamond. Tell me, am I where I belong now in ruby cuz of my skill, or was I stuck in emerald tier 1 w. a humongous losing streak for weeks cuz I’m really a tier 1 emerald skill level player? Which is it, cuz it can’t be both, and my skill alone cant explain both a rise to almost diamond (which I hope to hit before end of seas) and a huge losing streak that kept me near the bottom for weeks of very frustrating and demoralizing play.

There are many posts, including this one, which clearly show the system is designed to have losses beget losses, and wins beget wins ad infinitum. To punish losing players by stacking the deck against them, is cruel. Even we assume everyone at the bottom, or suffering a losing streak deserves it, the system penalizes them further – its kinda like take all the worst people, throwing them in a pit, throwing in potentially infinitely better opponents (according to all of you naysayers) and then tying anvils on the backs of the losers and telling them to fight their way out of the pit. This is what people complain about the inherent unfairness of the coded system itself. Get a clue.

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

I learned a really valuable lesson, yes.

I learned that you should NEVER count on your teammates to finish a job, to do the smart thing.

And I learned that if I have to carry, I have to do that by playing cheesy builds designed to wreak most havoc in as short amount of time as possible, because:
Teammates in soloqueue WILL rallybot.

So, I stopped playing my ele and ranger, got back to my roots and played necro. Viper necro. With as much dps as possible and fleshwurm as escape hatch.

So, I stopped playing my corruption necro build on non-hot account – which is quite effective… IF you have someone that does dps and doesnt die immediatly…. and I switched back to my cheesy terrormancer build.

Yeah, I learned a lot during this season. I learned that I can survive the whole match without dieing, get top player (condi) dps and watch my teammates rallybot five to ten times.

But most importantly… I learned that if I carry those noobs all the way to legendary, they actually think they are good. Talk about self deception there….

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

Chaith, Hahhaha, you have no idea, stop talking out of your kitten , you’re disconnected from reality and that’s fine, just stop talking.

Chaith.8256:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Lexander.4579:

i think you can just trust Anet and take their word that the system is based for skill and unworthy players wont be able to grind anymore unless they abuse MMR in some way (like many did in s1)

Really, then how do you explain that I had a 100+ losing game streak and got stuck at emerald tier 1 for 3 weeks, and tanked my mmr/win/loss ratio, and had to spend countless days teaching brand new players how to pvp against pro league teams of 3 and 4 while I was in solo q. At that time, people told me, after years of pvping on gw, that I was in the tier/div I belonged.

I am now 3 pips from diamond. Tell me, am I where I belong now in ruby cuz of my skill, or was I stuck in emerald tier 1 w. a humongous losing streak for weeks cuz I’m really a tier 1 emerald skill level player? Which is it, cuz it can’t be both, and my skill alone cant explain both a rise to almost diamond (which I hope to hit before end of seas) and a huge losing streak that kept me near the bottom for weeks of very frustrating and demoralizing play.

There are many posts, including this one, which clearly show the system is designed to have losses beget losses, and wins beget wins ad infinitum. To punish losing players by stacking the deck against them, is cruel. Even we assume everyone at the bottom, or suffering a losing streak deserves it, the system penalizes them further – its kinda like take all the worst people, throwing them in a pit, throwing in potentially infinitely better opponents (according to all of you naysayers) and then tying anvils on the backs of the losers and telling them to fight their way out of the pit. This is what people complain about the inherent unfairness of the coded system itself. Get a clue.

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Dariya.9380:

Chaith, Hahhaha, you have no idea, stop talking out of your kitten , you’re disconnected from reality and that’s fine, just stop talking.

Cracking an analogy and congratulations to that guy, go kitten yourself

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

The models yield a lot more supportive objective evidences than your anecdotes when the time come to conclude on the topic. Brushing aside all that you do not like to keep your anecdotes and conclude it’s mostly a l2p issue while having no clue about others nor any way to compare their journey to yours is most definitely pretentious.

Beside, in the light of these models an the fact you are 1/5 of an ever changing team, I think the ppl thinking they are responsible for more than they factually can be in the outcome of these matches are the ones behaving like babies with Dunning Kruger issues. Maybe some ppl need to stop believing their own hype and just enjoy their good fortune.

Oh, and what assumptions did I made about you and your road? I said you had no way to compare to others and that is not an assumption. It is a fact.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

The models yield a lot more supportive objective evidences than your anecdotes when the time come to conclude on the topic. Brushing aside all that you do not like to keep your anecdotes and conclude it’s mostly a l2p issue while having no clue about others nor any way to compare their journey to yours is most definitely pretentious.

Beside, in the light of these models an the fact you are 1/5 of an ever changing team, I think the ppl thinking they are responsible for more than they factually can be in the outcome of these matches are the ones behaving like babies with Dunning Kruger issues. Maybe some ppl need to stop believing their own hype and just enjoy their good fortune.

Oh, and what assumptions did I made about you and your road? I said you had no way to compare to others and that is not an assumption. It is a fact.

I’m not believing my own hype and if you think 3 years of pvp experience talking is worthless than I would say the same from someone who has only been pvping for a year is less than worthless.

I’ve admitted I’m not an elite player yet I’m able to carry at lower levels.

The models being created are not objective, everyone making them is looking to further their own agenda…. wouldn’t call that being objective and you aren’t being objective either.

My anecdotes are just as viable as all these mmr assumptions. Because neither of them are end all beat all.

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.

I wasn’t the one disproving it I beleive it was some guy named ensign.

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.

I wasn’t the one disproving it I beleive it was some guy named ensign.

He in no way disproved it.

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.

I wasn’t the one disproving it I beleive it was some guy named ensign.

He in no way disproved it.

Well he can’t disprove something that is not proven. He disputed it.

I get you all seem to have some sort of vendetta against players who are having an easier time in season 2 than season 1…. but even anet admitted season 1 had flaws, yes season 2 has flaws as well but even the math with that simulation it shows a very small amount being possibly in MMR hell.

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

I like forward to your math disproving it then, the OP in no way admitted that it was irrelevant. Plus there have been 1-2 other models done with much the same conclusion and the anet devs themselves seem to regard it as useful.

I wasn’t the one disproving it I beleive it was some guy named ensign.

He in no way disproved it.

Well he can’t disprove something that is not proven. He disputed it.

I get you all seem to have some sort of vendetta against players who are having an easier time in season 2 than season 1…. but even anet admitted season 1 had flaws, yes season 2 has flaws as well but even the math with that simulation it shows a very small amount being possibly in MMR hell.

You got it backward. Ppl seemingly caught in a perpetual loop have no grudge that I know of at ppl who have gone to the top without any problem. The threads start accumulating when ppl like you began to tell all these guys to l2p instead of blaming others/system regardless of how much they couldn’t know.

Also, since this is tied to the answer I gave above, I have no problem with your hype. I have a problem with you telling others what their problem is when you obviously couldn’t care less about said problem. Your stance isn’t one that scream “wait and see”. It scream “I made it and I won’t let you tarnish my glory”.

Edit: I forgot to add that, no, your anecdotes are not as good as any of the replies that addressed the topic with factual evidences (not opinions) that could lead to inference (not anecdotal).

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

BTW. I play GW since the first days of GW1. Do you believe me now?

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

The models yield a lot more supportive objective evidences than your anecdotes when the time come to conclude on the topic. Brushing aside all that you do not like to keep your anecdotes and conclude it’s mostly a l2p issue while having no clue about others nor any way to compare their journey to yours is most definitely pretentious.

Beside, in the light of these models an the fact you are 1/5 of an ever changing team, I think the ppl thinking they are responsible for more than they factually can be in the outcome of these matches are the ones behaving like babies with Dunning Kruger issues. Maybe some ppl need to stop believing their own hype and just enjoy their good fortune.

Oh, and what assumptions did I made about you and your road? I said you had no way to compare to others and that is not an assumption. It is a fact.

I’m not believing my own hype and if you think 3 years of pvp experience talking is worthless than I would say the same from someone who has only been pvping for a year is less than worthless.

I’ve admitted I’m not an elite player yet I’m able to carry at lower levels.

The models being created are not objective, everyone making them is looking to further their own agenda…. wouldn’t call that being objective and you aren’t being objective either.

My anecdotes are just as viable as all these mmr assumptions. Because neither of them are end all beat all.

Ive been pvping more than 14 yrs on gw (my primary thing to do on both games) and since beta on both. I’m hardly a noob or a newbie to gw pvp. I didn’t grind to my 54% win loss ratio last season (began seas 2 at this level) any more than u did. I have had a much easier time going thru ruby than I ever did thru emerald. And btw, it was an absolutely a horrible, demoralizing experience being stuck solo q in emerald w. players who were brand new or clueless or vanilla against, many times, premades synced on ts quickly on their way to legend at my expense.

I will say this to u. If this system proves I was stuck in emerald, cuz I suck cuz my losses only begat me more losses (losers are paired with losers against winners), ankitten ow in ruby cuz I did nothing but grind, and I need to face reality that I am not as good a player as I thought I was, then I would say that the same system should make you realize that your wins got you more wins (winners are paired with winners against losers) and your easy short grind to wherever you are should make you realize that perhaps you are not as good a player as you think you are just cuz you are in an upper division with a winning train ride ticket to the top.

So um, yah w/e.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

Eater of Peeps.9062:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

morrolan.9608:

Chaith.8256:

You got to diamond, you may have taken the salty road, bare foot, with a 300lbs bag on your back, but you persevered. Probably learned a thing or two about carrying two bodies to victory.

You will always climb out of MMR hell and get your max as long as you’re trying, and don’t give up.

Maybe but he shouldn’t have had to. The system is poor and we now have the math to prove it.

what math proves what…… he already said he would pay the guy who successfully challenged his math and it was challenged. You might not agree… sweet.

Not everyone should be able to cruise through the lower tiers but i carried the hell out of my teams through sapphire. If a player at my skill level can carry at those tiers…. it really makes me 100% sure its not bad MMR that is keeping people in those divisions.

I think you missed the other “thread” https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell/page/2#post6063062 with more math in it and confuse your unique case and perception with something that has inferential value.

You have no way to compare your journey to where you are to those of others and conclude that the difference is your skill. Knowing all the variables included in the equation, it is supremely pretentious to even flirt with that idea.

There are several models that show it’s more than likely that what many call “MMR hell” exist within this particular MM model.

I didnt miss the thread. But its a model and in no way a real representation of what is actually going on as he had to make assumptions to make the model. He admitted those things.

More and more it just seems like a bunch of babies with dunning kruger.

Im sorry season 1 allowed you to grind your way into legendary and now you cant…..

If me assuming other people are having l2p issues is pretentious then so be it.

Ive been playing this game for quite a while and i know im not the most skilled player yet i was able to carry hard through sapphire.

But you are making assumptions about me and my road through the divisions as well… i fail to see any difference other than your self serving opinions.

The models yield a lot more supportive objective evidences than your anecdotes when the time come to conclude on the topic. Brushing aside all that you do not like to keep your anecdotes and conclude it’s mostly a l2p issue while having no clue about others nor any way to compare their journey to yours is most definitely pretentious.

Beside, in the light of these models an the fact you are 1/5 of an ever changing team, I think the ppl thinking they are responsible for more than they factually can be in the outcome of these matches are the ones behaving like babies with Dunning Kruger issues. Maybe some ppl need to stop believing their own hype and just enjoy their good fortune.

Oh, and what assumptions did I made about you and your road? I said you had no way to compare to others and that is not an assumption. It is a fact.

I’m not believing my own hype and if you think 3 years of pvp experience talking is worthless than I would say the same from someone who has only been pvping for a year is less than worthless.

I’ve admitted I’m not an elite player yet I’m able to carry at lower levels.

The models being created are not objective, everyone making them is looking to further their own agenda…. wouldn’t call that being objective and you aren’t being objective either.

My anecdotes are just as viable as all these mmr assumptions. Because neither of them are end all beat all.

Ive been pvping more than 14 yrs on gw (my primary thing to do on both games) and since beta on both. I’m hardly a noob or a newbie to gw pvp. I didn’t grind to my 54% win loss ratio last season (began seas 2 at this level) any more than u did. I have had a much easier time going thru ruby than I ever did thru emerald. And btw, it was an absolutely a horrible, demoralizing experience being stuck solo q in emerald w. players who were brand new or clueless or vanilla against, many times, premades synced on ts quickly on their way to legend at my expense.

I will say this to u. If this system proves I was stuck in emerald, cuz I suck cuz my losses only begat me more losses (losers are paired with losers against winners), ankitten ow in ruby cuz I did nothing but grind, and I need to face reality that I am not as good a player as I thought I was, then I would say that the same system should make you realize that your wins got you more wins (winners are paired with winners against winners) and your easy short grind to wherever you are should make you realize that perhaps you are not as good a player as you think you are just cuz you are in an upper division with a winning train ride ticket to the top.

So um, yah w/e.

where am i claiming to be good…. im not claiming to be good im claiming to be able to carry at low levels because in all honesty the same things you are all saying about your teammates how they suck and do dumb things are all the same reasons why i am able to carry at low levels. I have been able to 1v2 and 1v3 in amber through sapphire….

My rise will stop at some point and even out… all it means is i probably dont belong in amber emerald or sapphire… my guess is i end up somewhere in high ruby or maybe briefly touching diamond… where last season we had people that didnt know simple game mechanics made it to legendary because they played a ton of games…

anet has tried a million different ways to do this balancing with MMR a bunch of different systems and its always the same thing one way is just a grind to the top and some players have an issue with that because they cant play 20 games regardless of their skill level. Same thing on the other end of the spectrum it becomes more MMr and skill based so the people who grind and grind and grind cant make the top because thye probably just arent good enough. The current system seems to be what anet has come up with and is sort of a hybrid between the two.

where am i claiming to be good…. im not claiming to be good im claiming to be able to carry at low levels because in all honesty the same things you are all saying about your teammates how they suck and do dumb things are all the same reasons why i am able to carry at low levels. I have been able to 1v2 and 1v3 in amber through sapphire….

My rise will stop at some point and even out… all it means is i probably dont belong in amber emerald or sapphire… my guess is i end up somewhere in high ruby or maybe briefly touching diamond… where last season we had people that didnt know simple game mechanics made it to legendary because they played a ton of games…

anet has tried a million different ways to do this balancing with MMR a bunch of different systems and its always the same thing one way is just a grind to the top and some players have an issue with that because they cant play 20 games regardless of their skill level. Same thing on the other end of the spectrum it becomes more MMr and skill based so the people who grind and grind and grind cant make the top because thye probably just arent good enough. The current system seems to be what anet has come up with and is sort of a hybrid between the two.[/quote]

You say ur rise to the top will level out and that is where u belong cuz of ur skill.

That’s what ppl said happened to me in emerald when I bottomed out w/ a 100+ consecutive loss losing streak. Um, no, I wasn’t an emerald player, cuz now I’m 3 pips from diamond and have had a fairly easy experience getting thru ruby. So now what?

You may hit ur mmr lose streak where u rightfully belong (u will have to judge that for urself) or u may not. U may hit it much earlier than ur skill would indicate for reasons having nothing to do w/ ur skill.

Really, think about it. It just comes down to this system: Losers are paired with losers against winners. Winners are paired with winners against losers. This goes on ad infinitum.

So the system is actually coding for u to be placed w/ either winners against losers or w/ losers against winners. So u either have the deck predeterminedly stacked against u or w/ u.

Also, some amount of luck is involved w/ regard to other factors such as rerolls, ts, syncing, premades vs. solos, vanilla builds, newbie or noob teammates, dcs, manipulations, afks, dishonorable ppl doing dishonorable things. So yah, ur skill is important, as is the skill of ur teammates (and the lack of skill of ur winning opponents – lucky for winners who are being deliberately pitted against losing players w/ presumable less skill), but to act like ur skill alone put u where u r, and my skill alone got me stuck in emerald (and now, according to many of u, its my grinding and not my skill that is raising me thru the divs – lol?) is ridiculous.

If I’m not as good as I think I am, maybe ur not as good as u think u r since always getting paired w/ winners and always going against losers (with ur team of winners) each time u win is hardly nothing. Are u really saying that is not a distinct advantage which they system has coded for winners to have? Are you really saying nothing but ur skill got u where u r, and nothing but my lack of skill got me where I am?

You’re denying the reality of the deliberate coding, which gives an advantage to winners and a deliberate disadvantage to losers (why any system designed to encourage fun and true competition in a game should penalize losers further is still shocking to me).

Why is Ruby an unacceptable place, a place that doesn’t reflect the entitled progress of someone with 50th percentile skill?

Because Ruby should correlate with high silver/early to mid gold from LoL whereas 50th percentile correlates to early and mid silver. Ruby is simply too high for that percentile range. I topped out at the 91st percentile when the leaderboards were up and topped out at third tier ruby last season so for me Ruby is acceptable.

I would say that a 75th percentile skill player who managed to get a bottom 5th percentile MMR is probably confused and disillusioned as to how valuable his playstyle is to winning matches.

Bottom 10th percentile is purely comprised of trolls who throw and base game only players with bad hardware (so being at a disadvantage against HoT specs combined with their bad framerates and/or connectivity). It’s a place one would actively try achieving.

OP assumed you can’t encounter other underrated players with the same MMR, in the same boat, (all other teammates assumed to have accurate skill captured by MMR).

This is exactly what gave me hope in T5 Sapphire, and I’m T1 Ruby now.

If you deserve to move up, you gotta be the one farming value, learning how to carry like your enemies are.

In a competitive environment everyone should be playing their best game anyway. I would like to add that there are no limits, only plateaus. Bruce Lee famously said that.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

where am i claiming to be good…. im not claiming to be good im claiming to be able to carry at low levels because in all honesty the same things you are all saying about your teammates how they suck and do dumb things are all the same reasons why i am able to carry at low levels. I have been able to 1v2 and 1v3 in amber through sapphire….

My rise will stop at some point and even out… all it means is i probably dont belong in amber emerald or sapphire… my guess is i end up somewhere in high ruby or maybe briefly touching diamond… where last season we had people that didnt know simple game mechanics made it to legendary because they played a ton of games…

anet has tried a million different ways to do this balancing with MMR a bunch of different systems and its always the same thing one way is just a grind to the top and some players have an issue with that because they cant play 20 games regardless of their skill level. Same thing on the other end of the spectrum it becomes more MMr and skill based so the people who grind and grind and grind cant make the top because thye probably just arent good enough. The current system seems to be what anet has come up with and is sort of a hybrid between the two.

You say ur rise to the top will level out and that is where u belong cuz of ur skill.

That’s what ppl said happened to me in emerald when I bottomed out w/ a 100+ consecutive loss losing streak. Um, no, I wasn’t an emerald player, cuz now I’m 3 pips from diamond and have had a fairly easy experience getting thru ruby. So now what?

You may hit ur mmr lose streak where u rightfully belong (u will have to judge that for urself) or u may not. U may hit it much earlier than ur skill would indicate for reasons having nothing to do w/ ur skill.

Really, think about it. It just comes down to this system: Losers are paired with losers against winners. Winners are paired with winners against losers. This goes on ad infinitum.

So the system is actually coding for u to be placed w/ either winners against losers or w/ losers against winners. So u either have the deck predeterminedly stacked against u or w/ u.

Also, some amount of luck is involved w/ regard to other factors such as rerolls, ts, syncing, premades vs. solos, vanilla builds, newbie or noob teammates, dcs, manipulations, afks, dishonorable ppl doing dishonorable things. So yah, ur skill is important, as is the skill of ur teammates (and the lack of skill of ur winning opponents – lucky for winners who are being deliberately pitted against losing players w/ presumable less skill), but to act like ur skill alone put u where u r, and my skill alone got me stuck in emerald (and now, according to many of u, its my grinding and not my skill that is raising me thru the divs – lol?) is ridiculous.

If I’m not as good as I think I am, maybe ur not as good as u think u r since always getting paired w/ winners and always going against losers (with ur team of winners) each time u win is hardly nothing. Are u really saying that is not a distinct advantage which they system has coded for winners to have? Are you really saying nothing but ur skill got u where u r, and nothing but my lack of skill got me where I am?

You’re denying the reality of the deliberate coding, which gives an advantage to winners and a deliberate disadvantage to losers (why any system designed to encourage fun and true competition in a game should penalize losers further is still shocking to me).[/quote]

Ive had around a 60% win rate in ranked for almost my entire time in GW2 pvp.

I KNOW IM NOT GOOD I KEEP SAYING THAT LOL

and yes it could be possible that the only reason you got to diamond is because you played alot of games… but since youve been playing so many games to get there i expect your skill level has gone up.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

I might have less than 10 matches in custom arena. The huge majority of my experience is in ranked and in WvW roaming (humans vs humans not PVE or Ktrain).

See what you did here, again? You immediately assumed what I played and concluded upon that assumption without even bathing an eye. Why am I even answering you I don’t know. You don’t care about anything I wrote down you will simply twist it back to fit your world view.

We are done. Seriously this time. I’m out of good will with you and I really tried. Maybe someone else will care to answer your next questions/assumptions.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

I might have less than 10 matches in custom arena. The huge majority of my experience is in ranked and in WvW roaming (humans vs humans not PVE or Ktrain).

See what you did here, again? You immediately assumed what I played and concluded upon that assumption without even bathing an eye. Why am I even answering you I don’t know. You don’t care about anything I wrote down you will simply twist it back to fit your world view.

We are done. Seriously this time. I’m out of good will with you and I really tried. Maybe someone else will care to answer your next questions/assumptions.

You made a post very recently in which you did say you are inexperienced in ranked pvp. How many ranked pvp games do you have?

and wvw no matter what does not count. AT ALL.

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

I might have less than 10 matches in custom arena. The huge majority of my experience is in ranked and in WvW roaming (humans vs humans not PVE or Ktrain).

See what you did here, again? You immediately assumed what I played and concluded upon that assumption without even bathing an eye. Why am I even answering you I don’t know. You don’t care about anything I wrote down you will simply twist it back to fit your world view.

We are done. Seriously this time. I’m out of good will with you and I really tried. Maybe someone else will care to answer your next questions/assumptions.

You made a post very recently in which you did say you are inexperienced in ranked pvp. How many ranked pvp games do you have?

and wvw no matter what does not count. AT ALL.

Fine, I’ll answer that last question just to dissipate doubts about me being new,

I’ve said repeatedly in several threads that I had thousands of matches (that is far less than ppl who have tens of thousands but do we agree I’m far from a brand new guy) in pvp and I absolutely disagree about WvW roaming amounting to nothing just because you decided it was so.

The conditions you have to deal with in WvW are a lot more unfair and unbalanced than in ranked pvp so if you can do well there far from the safety of the zerg alone your mechanical skills are probably not to blame. In WvW instant death is a real thing while in pvp it plain isn’t. Stealth in pvp is no problem but in WvW it is a kittening big deal. Spotting a specific animation in the middle of some WvW bigger fights can much harder than it is in the context of ranked pvp. I have over 5k+ hours playing my main and have died over 16k+ times (I play risky a lot). I’m not new to human vs human fighting at all.

Now, before you answer back something like “but WvW this…” or “PvP that…” I’ll tell you that I couldn’t care less at this point. Let’s just disagree and be done with it. Really.

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

NeXeD.3042:

I DONT HAVE HYPE.

i dont know how else to say this but ill say it again…. i am not a great player, im not elite.

YET even though im not good i am able to carry through those lower leagues.

I hate this ridiculous the system is out to get me that has become a common issue among people these days

That is beside the point. That you are good or bad doesn’t have anything to do with what ppl are reporting. And your dislike of that is also irrelevant to it having value or not.

well according to you everyone who disagrees with anything you said is irrelevant…. so i guess you are irrelevant? And since you are irrelevant i guess the system cant be out to get you…. so yes that is irrelevant.

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

No. Ppl who disagree with me and says why they do with logic and factual evidences that doesn’t ignore my stance is never irrelevant.

If you can’t see why you disliking ppl complaining about MMR is is irrelevant to the topic I think we are done.

get gud son. literally all there is left to say.

and honestly it sounds more like it should be

get not horrible son.

and no…. i dont care about your gw1 experience… means jack in this game and by your own admission you are newish to pvp.

Yes, because when I say Gw1 all you understand is “this guy is new to gw2”. Bye now, the troll has be well fed indeed.

Its an entirely different game. Maybe your having issues with pvp because your still attempting to play gw1 on gw2?

I didnt say you were new to gw2 i said you were newish to gw2 pvp. I can try and find the post where you stated that if youd like?

What I meant and should have said more clearly rather than alluding it is that I have thousands of hours fighting humans in gw2 on my main mostly on non-meta builds. I’m not new but my suffering MMR consider me of the same caliber as a brand new player. This, of course, is an obvious problem for also obvious reasons.

i wouldnt call playing custom arena on non meta builds experienced in pvp. Or wvw experience.

Neither of those are even close to how ranked pvp should be played.

Being an experienced guild wars player you should have known that.

So yes your MMR being low is correct, you dont have a lot of experience in ranked conquest pvp in GW2.

I might have less than 10 matches in custom arena. The huge majority of my experience is in ranked and in WvW roaming (humans vs humans not PVE or Ktrain).

See what you did here, again? You immediately assumed what I played and concluded upon that assumption without even bathing an eye. Why am I even answering you I don’t know. You don’t care about anything I wrote down you will simply twist it back to fit your world view.

We are done. Seriously this time. I’m out of good will with you and I really tried. Maybe someone else will care to answer your next questions/assumptions.

You made a post very recently in which you did say you are inexperienced in ranked pvp. How many ranked pvp games do you have?

and wvw no matter what does not count. AT ALL.

Fine, I’ll answer that last question just to dissipate doubts about me being new,

I’ve said repeatedly in several threads that I had thousands of matches (that is far less than ppl who have tens of thousands but do we agree I’m far from a brand new guy) in pvp and I absolutely disagree about WvW roaming amounting to nothing just because you decided it was so.

The conditions you have to deal with in WvW are a lot more unfair and unbalanced than in ranked pvp so if you can do well there far from the safety of the zerg alone your mechanical skills are probably not to blame. In WvW instant death is a real thing while in pvp it plain isn’t. Stealth in pvp is no problem but in WvW it is a kittening big deal. Spotting a specific animation in the middle of some WvW bigger fights can much harder than it is in the context of ranked pvp. I have over 5k+ hours playing my main and have died over 16k+ times (I play risky a lot). I’m not new to human vs human fighting at all.

Now, before you answer back something like “but WvW this…” or “PvP that…” I’ll tell you that I couldn’t care less at this point. Let’s just disagree and be done with it. Really.

WvW harder than pvp ok i got it. Glad that was cleared up…….

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I will say this to u. If this system proves I was stuck in emerald, cuz I suck cuz my losses only begat me more losses (losers are paired with losers against winners), ankitten ow in ruby cuz I did nothing but grind, and I need to face reality that I am not as good a player as I thought I was, then I would say that the same system should make you realize that your wins got you more wins (winners are paired with winners against losers) and your easy short grind to wherever you are should make you realize that perhaps you are not as good a player as you think you are just cuz you are in an upper division with a winning train ride ticket to the top.

This kinda has applied to me today. I’ve won some matches and Ive lost some matches. The matches I lost I was paired with at least 2 of the same ppl from all my other losses.

Essence Snow.3194:

This kinda has applied to me today. I’ve won some matches and Ive lost some matches. The matches I lost I was paired with at least 2 of the same ppl from all my other losses.

After one loss, if your teammates are so horrendous, you should take a 2-3 min break (or however long your queue is) to avoid playing with the same people in your mmr/pip range. I find it hilarious some people who claim go on “40+” lose streaks (exaggeration) playing with the same people don’t realize brute forcing instant queuing losses will likely pair you together again if they do the same.

XGhoul.7426:

Essence Snow.3194:

This kinda has applied to me today. I’ve won some matches and Ive lost some matches. The matches I lost I was paired with at least 2 of the same ppl from all my other losses.

After one loss, if your teammates are so horrendous, you should take a 2-3 min break (or however long your queue is) to avoid playing with the same people in your mmr/pip range. I find it hilarious some people who claim go on “40+” lose streaks (exaggeration) playing with the same people don’t realize brute forcing instant queuing losses will likely pair you together again if they do the same.

Isn’t that kinda a testament to the system being messed up if there’s a need to use a work-around?

NeXeD.3042:

and the skill level is relevant, if you choose to ignore that its on you. I would rather believe people i know have been playing this game for a long time rather than randoms on the forums.

So you don’t believe the devs who have acknowledged the worth of the model and that there are problems with the matchmaking?

Just because a dev said ooh maybe we will look into that doesn’t mean the model is worth it for them.

There are problems in matchmaking in every game…… gw2 problems aren’t different.

NeXeD.3042:

Just because a dev said ooh maybe we will look into that doesn’t mean the model is worth it for them.

There are problems in matchmaking in every game…… gw2 problems aren’t different.

Sure they are because the system doesn’t match teams by mmr, does any other competitive game do that? Do you deny that the system would be better if there was mmr matching involved in opposing team selection?

And the devs only ever reply to posts that interest them they never reply just because.

Wow, I did declare ensign as a winner and buy him shinies
But seriously,ok, his model disagrees with my model which both disagree with the other model.

So what, pick the model that best supports your case and that’s probably ensign’s model and that one still shows players of the same skill level spread across three kittening gem tiers as well as having to play a large number of games in order to correct a rating mismatch. I didn’t account for some of the assumptions he made and I said I’d pay so I did.

And to politely express my opinion on some of the anecdotal evidence…
If you have to play more than 15 hours (60 matches) a week to reach the appropriate spot in the league grats, but I don’t think that’s a working system.

If the margin of error includes multiple gem tiers, I don’t think that’s a working system…..

If the system can’t handle a non even distribution of play times…. I don’t think that’s a working system…

If it takes someone 600+ games to reach legendary….I don’t think that’s a working system..

Tenebria.7239:

So what, pick the model that best supports your case

No no no, do not ever do this. No matter what you’re looking at you can always find some kook that’ll sell you your opinion in a shiny wrapper, no matter how much or how little truth there is to it. Do this only if you’re trying to score points in a debate and don’t care a whit about the truth.

If you want to sift through differing opinions you have to look at the assumptions and evidence each is offering and figure out where the balance lies between them. It’s not the easy road, but ‘just pick the evidence that supports your opinion!’ is an all too common form of idiocy that’ll never get you anywhere (outside of a political ‘debate’, sadly).

I’ve lost 2 games, in my past 30 games or more. From amber to almost diamond 3 right now, in less than 7 days of actually playing pvp this season. I probably started like not even 3 weeks ago. There honestly isn’t a mmr hell, but you really need to hump the meta or you’ll simply be at a disadvantage.

I started by playing aura share d/d, to adapt my favorite d/d to the new meta. but I was only getting a winrate of like 70%, which obviously wasn’t right. Once I sucked it up, and started playing D/F I just stopped dropping hardly any games at all. I guess it helps that I know and met skilled people to team with at times, but I can honestly say I went through emerald and sapphire alone, by relying on a teamfight oriented build, and actively trying to command the pugs in team chat. When I didn’t care to type, those were the few times I actually lost. Facing 2 or 3 necros helps them too, but still :p

There isn’t a MMR hell. You just need to adapt your top tier class and build to what you’re facing every match, and have the moves to back it up.

Ensign.2189:

Tenebria.7239:

So what, pick the model that best supports your case

No no no, do not ever do this. No matter what you’re looking at you can always find some kook that’ll sell you your opinion in a shiny wrapper, no matter how much or how little truth there is to it. Do this only if you’re trying to score points in a debate and don’t care a whit about the truth.

If you want to sift through differing opinions you have to look at the assumptions and evidence each is offering and figure out where the balance lies between them. It’s not the easy road, but ‘just pick the evidence that supports your opinion!’ is an all too common form of idiocy that’ll never get you anywhere (outside of a political ‘debate’, sadly).

This. So much this.

Lucidity.5947:

I’ve lost 2 games, in my past 30 games or more. From amber to almost diamond 3 right now, in less than 7 days of actually playing pvp this season. I probably started like not even 3 weeks ago. There honestly isn’t a mmr hell, but you really need to hump the meta or you’ll simply be at a disadvantage.

I started by playing aura share d/d, to adapt my favorite d/d to the new meta. but I was only getting a winrate of like 70%, which obviously wasn’t right. Once I sucked it up, and started playing D/F I just stopped dropping hardly any games at all. I guess it helps that I know and met skilled people to team with at times, but I can honestly say I went through emerald and sapphire alone, by relying on a teamfight oriented build, and actively trying to command the pugs in team chat. When I didn’t care to type, those were the few times I actually lost. Facing 2 or 3 necros helps them too, but still :p

There isn’t a MMR hell. You just need to adapt your top tier class and build to what you’re facing every match, and have the moves to back it up.

Got a high MMR and conclude there is no MMR issue with MM. Typical.

Are you the kind of person that goes into a poor country and stay into a luxury resort only to concluded that what you saw was representative of the country?

If you want to see the reality ppl are talking about get out of your high MMR resort first. THEN and only THEN your comment will begin to have some credibility.

Ensign.2189:

Tenebria.7239:

So what, pick the model that best supports your case

No no no, do not ever do this. No matter what you’re looking at you can always find some kook that’ll sell you your opinion in a shiny wrapper, no matter how much or how little truth there is to it. Do this only if you’re trying to score points in a debate and don’t care a whit about the truth.

If you want to sift through differing opinions you have to look at the assumptions and evidence each is offering and figure out where the balance lies between them. It’s not the easy road, but ‘just pick the evidence that supports your opinion!’ is an all too common form of idiocy that’ll never get you anywhere (outside of a political ‘debate’, sadly).

Meep, shouldn’t post when I’m tired. Should have said, there are three opinions of how it should be modeled, even the the model that best supports your case shows unhappy things.

i can prove MMR is system is bad in this game
Monday 2 pips away from legendary
Sunday 34 points away

Retiring from ranked this season. I don’t even care about making diamond I just wanted to get my elementalist achievement out of the way before season 3 but so far that isn’t even happening as my turn to win never comes up despite trying, there’ll be a big losing streak without a big winning streak being set up to fix some of the damage done to MMR. Sure we can always get better but if my only options are 2v1 at far or 3v1 at mid when teammates are dead on lanes and don’t wait up so we can charge mid as a group what then?

It’s been fun…wait, no it hasn’t and you can’t have my stuff. If Riot or Capcom buy out the franchise they might actually make the game worth playing.

Dwayne.6904:

i can prove MMR is system is bad in this game
Monday 2 pips away from legendary
Sunday 34 points away

To be fair that is not a proof.

Tenebria.7239:

OK, here was my original rough analysis of the flaws in the MMR system:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/A-serious-examination-of-S2-MMR-Math-Inside

But since a majority of the forum base thinks I’m wrong, and swears there is no MMR hell………I offer you a challenge:

Prove me wrong and I’ll buy you SHINIES! (Some random stuff from the gem store)(NA Server)
If a dev wants to play, I’ll chip in cash to a charity of their choosing.

Challenge 1 (Small Shiny): Prove a player with system MMR in the bottom 5% but actual skill of 75% for his matchmaking area can obtain a system MMR that reflects his skill. Assume he’s at 0 pips in Ruby.

Challenge 2 (Big Shiny): Prove a player with system MMR in the bottom 5% but actual skill of 50% for his matchmaking area can obtain a system MMR that reflects his skill. Assume he’s at 0 pips in Ruby.

Challenge 3 (Win Both Shinies and a bonus Shiny): Create a simulation (sim1) using the available information for this season, create a simulation (sim2) using purely GLICKO for matchmaking. Run both. Find that sim1 produces MMR for players with at most twice the error generated by sim2. Feel free to use any statistically valid method for calculating error

Best to assume a normal distribution of players, but I’ll probably pay out for a uniform distribution solution.

Requirements:
Math and example cases, no anecdotal evidence.
You must assume MMR is an accurate predictor of game win loss.
You must assume all players other than the player trapped in hell have accurate MMR. You must use the current S2 matchmaking sytem.
Other than that, no solutions that rely on a small percentage chance event to occur or require an inhumanly possible number of games.
No solutions that require everyone (or most or a lot or etc) above that player to rank out of that area.
No solutions relying on disconnections or team play.
No solutions requiring the player to sit out playing a portion of the season.

You’re proving that this players skill will get him where he belongs.

You have 24 hours…..enjoy…..

-Tene

Edit:To clarify this is for a SOLO QUEUE PLAYER
Edit2: First solution to each challenge, I’m not loaded
Edit3: Challenge 3 Posted to make it easier to see

I haven’t played in over a year – where is my MRR? Do I start at the bottom? or mid level with large volatility?

Sirbeaumerdier.3740:

Lucidity.5947:

I’ve lost 2 games, in my past 30 games or more. From amber to almost diamond 3 right now, in less than 7 days of actually playing pvp this season. I probably started like not even 3 weeks ago. There honestly isn’t a mmr hell, but you really need to hump the meta or you’ll simply be at a disadvantage.

I started by playing aura share d/d, to adapt my favorite d/d to the new meta. but I was only getting a winrate of like 70%, which obviously wasn’t right. Once I sucked it up, and started playing D/F I just stopped dropping hardly any games at all. I guess it helps that I know and met skilled people to team with at times, but I can honestly say I went through emerald and sapphire alone, by relying on a teamfight oriented build, and actively trying to command the pugs in team chat. When I didn’t care to type, those were the few times I actually lost. Facing 2 or 3 necros helps them too, but still :p

There isn’t a MMR hell. You just need to adapt your top tier class and build to what you’re facing every match, and have the moves to back it up.

Got a high MMR and conclude there is no MMR issue with MM. Typical.

Are you the kind of person that goes into a poor country and stay into a luxury resort only to concluded that what you saw was representative of the country?

If you want to see the reality ppl are talking about get out of your high MMR resort first. THEN and only THEN your comment will begin to have some credibility.

You’re acting as if it’s a bad thing that I have a high MMR. MMR is something you earn not something that is given. I just explained to you how I earned that, in multiple facets pertaining to skill and actually commanding your team of sheep. Sadly, you must be one of the sheep. You actually have to be good at this game, there is no getting around that. If I can get a 70% winrate on a non meta weapon solo, then what is your excuse?

Tenebria.7239:

OK, here was my original rough analysis of the flaws in the MMR system:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/A-serious-examination-of-S2-MMR-Math-Inside

But since a majority of the forum base thinks I’m wrong, and swears there is no MMR hell………I offer you a challenge:

Prove me wrong and I’ll buy you SHINIES! (Some random stuff from the gem store)(NA Server)
If a dev wants to play, I’ll chip in cash to a charity of their choosing.

Challenge 1 (Small Shiny): Prove a player with system MMR in the bottom 5% but actual skill of 75% for his matchmaking area can obtain a system MMR that reflects his skill. Assume he’s at 0 pips in Ruby.

Challenge 2 (Big Shiny): Prove a player with system MMR in the bottom 5% but actual skill of 50% for his matchmaking area can obtain a system MMR that reflects his skill. Assume he’s at 0 pips in Ruby.

Challenge 3 (Win Both Shinies and a bonus Shiny): Create a simulation (sim1) using the available information for this season, create a simulation (sim2) using purely GLICKO for matchmaking. Run both. Find that sim1 produces MMR for players with at most twice the error generated by sim2. Feel free to use any statistically valid method for calculating error

Best to assume a normal distribution of players, but I’ll probably pay out for a uniform distribution solution.

Requirements:
Math and example cases, no anecdotal evidence.
You must assume MMR is an accurate predictor of game win loss.
You must assume all players other than the player trapped in hell have accurate MMR. You must use the current S2 matchmaking sytem.
Other than that, no solutions that rely on a small percentage chance event to occur or require an inhumanly possible number of games.
No solutions that require everyone (or most or a lot or etc) above that player to rank out of that area.
No solutions relying on disconnections or team play.
No solutions requiring the player to sit out playing a portion of the season.

You’re proving that this players skill will get him where he belongs.

You have 24 hours…..enjoy…..

-Tene

Edit:To clarify this is for a SOLO QUEUE PLAYER
Edit2: First solution to each challenge, I’m not loaded
Edit3: Challenge 3 Posted to make it easier to see

i think this contest is “stupid” : in post https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/The-nature-of-MMR-hell
Evan of anet admits clearly that there are some problems and that they are working on them If a company spends money on a problem , it is becouse the problem is real … otherwise none want to throws away his money … MMR hell is something real and known to ANET also ( they said it, not me )