No balance patches freq, too much to ask for?

No balance patches freq, too much to ask for?

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Posted by: ErazorZ.5209

ErazorZ.5209

Hello guys,

Ive had the pleasure to play with a merry bunch of people in my own created PvP guild. (never thought it would be so much fun running and playing with a guild on ts and the likes)

But recently ive become more and more aware of apparent imbalances in the game.
I dont really understand the PvP devteams stance on balance but it really seems they just dont care/dont understand/are forced to?

Every time something big changes in PvP, wich is not a whole lot to begin with, they just completely overhaul the system.

They are doing the same now with the new traitsystem. Wich will be followed up by a handfull of bandaids and then left alone for half a year and then a new revamp will be incomming, as per ussual.

I do not want to make this a long post or anything, but the stagnation has got the best of me.

Aslong as mesmers can hit a 1 shot kill with no reall counterplay if your out of dodgerolls, a ranger can press 2 for absurd damage and hit the longest immob in the game and straight up kills you if your out of stunbreaks, a thief teleports asif hes map hacking with sword making him completely immune to any sort of focus fire or attacks in general from range/cast time. Engineers that can forever knock all your stuff down regardless of stability and then reheal up with a healing turret untill infinity with there low cooldowns.

And all the other weaponsets of non meta builds that are pretty much underpowered to its core. From the stance of pure dps to conditions wich are only viable on a few classes.

I see no reall reason to continue playing. Its obvious the meta is the meta, simply because it is the best, not because its the most inventive. but it makes the most common sense against most builds and counterplays the most.

There is no anti meta, wich is unhealthy for this game and instantly leads to stagnation.
And not the OPness of builds, but the Underpoweredness of builds are making me quit with PvP.

Yes balancing is hard. But not balancing and just overhauling the system every year or so, thats not fixing anything its just overhauling the problem and starting ‘anew’. It only leads to more stagnation, instead of a healthy game.

The health of the balance is also directly seen in people who flame extraordinarily much, and also a lack of solid hardcore playerbase, wich will keep diminishing because there is no reall incentive to play in a stale meta. The only few people left are those who want quick dailies and people who just bought the game and are discovering what PvP is all about (wich i have to say is allot of fun at the start, untill the stagnation comes in)

The most hardcore people playing this game are people who played from the start and this was there ‘esports’ of choice, or they simply like the feeling of being able to handle a high end class that is not even a contestion to some of the underpowered weapons and traits that are out there even versus better players.

The reall dealbreaker for me, was Stronghold. It shows anet is not willing to change there stance on pvp, only 5v5 games, but would wrather experiment more with mechanics that really dont have allot to do with competetive playervplayer alltogether. (see skyhammer for a reference) But rely more on communications then ever before, wich most random people who play by there selves dont have, dont use, or dont want to even understand. It seems more cassually focussed at its core, but in the end stagnation will come to that map aswell, people figuring out what the best strategy is and then everyone will be doing it like that aswell.

So i want to discuss this topic here, hence me posting this here, what is your view exacly on how things are in PvP currently?

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Posted by: Sorel.4870

Sorel.4870

Aslong as mesmers can hit a 1 shot kill with no reall counterplay if your out of dodge rolls

Well… yeah… There are only two cases. One, you’re in 1v1 against a mesmer. If you get 1shot (it’s not a real 1shot, but let’s say killed in under a second), it’s because you wasted your dodges. Hint: watch out for the shiny flying blade.

Two, you are in a team fight and get 1shot. It means your positioning was wrong, or the mesmer’s was good. It’s a team game, so getting downed in team fights is pretty normal, and your team can help you in that case. Shatter mesmers play a burst build, it’s their role to burst people, it’s yours to be aware of where they are.

And all the other weaponsets of non meta builds that are pretty much underpowered to its core. From the stance of pure dps to conditions wich are only viable on a few classes.

That’s just not true. Meta builds have a good synergy, but unless you’re a top player (and judging by your remark on mesmers, you’re not), you don’t need a meta build to perform well.

I play every single weapon on ranger except for OH axe (which is pretty UP, I’ll give you that).

The three weapon sets the engineer can play are excellent.

Staff, hammer, sword, scepter, focus and GS are all very strong choices for a guardian, and you see all of them in unranked.

The only profession with a lot of weaker weapon sets is thief, really. But still: two of them have an excellent synergy: SB-dp and SB-sd.

A lot of players (you included) think that they need to play a meta build to perform well. That’s not always true. Experiment a bit.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

The upcoming changes to the trait system are meant to last. It’s an attempt to reduce the balance possibilities and make trait choices interesting. It’s a big undertaking and when you’re going to be changing everything anyway, it doesn’t make sense to do a huge balance overhaul on the old system.

However, PvP balance before the reveal of HoT was still too infrequent. It seems ANet’s structure doesn’t have PvP developers interacting much with profession developers and that the profession developers are tasked with other things.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

(edited by Exedore.6320)

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Posted by: Teutos.8620

Teutos.8620

Post too long, didn’t read it.

Just answering the headline: There is a whole trait reworking on his way. It will be shipped before the addon. My guess is, that they are currently putting all their workforce into getting it right and ready to be shipped.

EU – Multiple times #1 SoloQ pre Dec 2014 (pure MMR based ladder)
Primoridal (S1) & Exalted (S2) & Illustrious (S3) Legend

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Posted by: Kharr.5746

Kharr.5746

Everything is going to change with the new trait system. No build will be left untouched. The introduction of Elite specializations once HoT lands will also shake things up a lot. PvP is about to get a whole lot more unbalanced.

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Posted by: Impact.2780

Impact.2780

Poor ANet. They just can’t win. Complaints over no new game modes, and when they finally make one, making one is a "dealbreaker!"

On a more serious note, more frequent balance patches for a faster-evolving meta have been asked for for a long time. It’s probably never going to happen though. You can’t take anything they say seriously unless it’s shown on a stream either. Some things they claimed they were working on were mentioned ages ago - before ascended armour was even hinted at - and still haven’t been released. In fact it’s been so long I’ve forgotten what those were, and I was looking forward to couple of them.

EU | Ímpáct / Impact Warlock / Impact Illusions
http://www.twitch.tv/impact2780

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

Well, the balance team is going to have to start releasing some updates more frequently soon. With all of the new spec trees, elite specializations, and new weapons, there will be issues. It won’t be acceptable to wait six months to balance.

Of course that is the logical side of me talking. With this balance team, who knows.

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

The upcoming changes to the trait system are meant to last. It’s an attempt to reduce the balance possibilities and make trait choices interesting. It’s a big undertaking and when you’re going to be changing everything anyway, it doesn’t make sense to do a huge balance overhaul on the old system.

However, PvP balance before the reveal of HoT was still too infrequent. It seems ANet’s structure doesn’t have PvP developers interacting much with profession developers and that the profession developers are tasked with other things.

I agree with this. The new system may reduce build options, but will be much much easier to balance. However, the balance patches need to be made frequent. Also, they absolutetly NEED to add good leaderboard and rankings when the expansion hits. There will be a huge influx of players who will only stay in pvp IF they have some motivation. Look at any other competitive game. SC2, Lol, dota, whatever. The thing that they have in common is that you can climb from bronze to diamond and platinum.

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

its more than clear that (most) devs didnt master the classes they are working on or dont even play it. how should they balance something that they are not familiar with? Anet should hire ppl to balance who are actually playing the game and got a good understanding of the current problems not the ones who play 0-24 League that influences them to make Stronghold like this doublekitten.

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

Meh, despite the “meta” being dropdead boring, it is fairly balanced…

And despite all this, viable and optimal builds are two categories, as it is not impossible to kill a D/D Celementalist with just a longbow on a Warrior (Don’t ask me how, I don’t wanna think about what happened)

In the end what is it that truly matters? Will a new meta give you a new goal? It will keep people occupied for at least 2-3 weeks copy-pasting Metabattle and discovering the new toys, but in the end imbalance will still stay (which is normal in a system like this) and you will find, because you are not occupied or incentified to get better, that you are getting annoyed/bored again

Bottom line;

  • Imbalances will stay, this is the nature of a game with multiple professions/roles
  • Boredom will not be solved with more frequent balance patches.
Guild channel with PvP uploads
Lost? Confused? [TCS] – A guild for every state of body and mind

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Posted by: Lordrosicky.5813

Lordrosicky.5813

What are you moaning about? We got a balance patch in April 2014. Don’t be so ungrateful.

Character: Henry rank million/Duke Henry
Necromancer/Casual Warrior
[Team] Best WvW guild of all time. EASILY.

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Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

I actually find the current balance and build diversity pretty decent.
Of course I will look forward to the new specialization system which can bring up a bit more variety.

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Posted by: brannigan.9831

brannigan.9831

Long story short. Yes, its too much to ask for sadly. They have a couple of devs that work on pvp full time. Things take forever.

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Posted by: Xillllix.3485

Xillllix.3485

It’s not just pvp, WvW hasn’t had anything new in over a year beside colored tags and an annoying siege disabler. PvE hasn’t seen new dungeons since the last fractal update years ago.

I think we shouldn’t expect anything new until the expansion is out.

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Posted by: nightblood.7910

nightblood.7910

I have to say, coming from WvW where you can easily be one shotted depending on what you are running, I thought PvP was amazingly balanced.

If anything needs a balance overhaul its WvW. (Personally I would get rid of food and utility buffs).

There are some improvements that can definitely be made in PvP, but I guess because Ive seen the worst of imbalance in WvW, PvP looks rather vanilla to me.

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

  • Boredom will not be solved with more frequent balance patches

That’s exactly what it would

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

  • Boredom will not be solved with more frequent balance patches

That’s exactly what it would

Honestly?

I would take the current balance and improve the incentives to play and introduce more gamemodes…

Frequent balance updates means people will flock to the same darned thing within a week or two while still monkeying about in the few Conquest maps there are to get some vendor trash and a spot on a (now offline) broken leaderboard

People are not gonna try harder because a new balance patch hit them, and imbalances will never be removed regardless

Edit:
Neither does it help getting attention from more people within the game. I never heard someone with a balancing patch saying “Oh boy, now I really gotta get into Conquest”

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

  • Boredom will not be solved with more frequent balance patches

That’s exactly what it would

Honestly?

I would take the current balance and improve the incentives to play and introduce more gamemodes…

Frequent balance updates means people will flock to the same darned thing within a week or two while still monkeying about in the few Conquest maps there are to get some vendor trash and a spot on a (now offline) broken leaderboard

People are not gonna try harder because a new balance patch hit them, and imbalances will never be removed regardless

Edit:
Neither does it help getting attention from more people within the game. I never heard someone with a balancing patch saying “Oh boy, now I really gotta get into Conquest”

People like testing and discovering things. I agree however that small things like the might nerf doesn’t create fun.

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: GoogleBrandon.5073

GoogleBrandon.5073

People like testing and discovering things. I agree however that small things like the might nerf doesn’t create fun.

I gotta be fair, I do too, and I frequently build something stupid just for the sake of it…

But in the end, it does not remove the boredom I have playing conquest for such a small incentive – and that is the point I wanna get across. Even if all professions had a viable role for any kind of play (from the bottom to top tier), it would still be the same ol’ gamemode. The only redeeming factor is the dynamic enviroment created by the players, but with such a small community, you more than often run into the same names

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Lost? Confused? [TCS] – A guild for every state of body and mind

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

People like testing and discovering things. I agree however that small things like the might nerf doesn’t create fun.

I gotta be fair, I do too, and I frequently build something stupid just for the sake of it…

But in the end, it does not remove the boredom I have playing conquest for such a small incentive – and that is the point I wanna get across. Even if all professions had a viable role for any kind of play (from the bottom to top tier), it would still be the same ol’ gamemode. The only redeeming factor is the dynamic enviroment created by the players, but with such a small community, you more than often run into the same names

Changes to skills, mechanics and traits produce fun and variation. Leaderboards and rankings produce long term commitment. We need both, so i agree.

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: Killthehealersffs.8940

Killthehealersffs.8940

People are not gonna try harder because a new balance patch hit them, and imbalances will never be removed regardless

When the x-pack launches i dont want to see any old familiar name in here (mine included) ….

I dont want to see the history repeated even again …. :
2013 Spring :‘’We dont care about low noobies balance , as long there are athletes ppl will flock into the stadium to see the pros’’

2013 Summer: Why there no Real money tournaments ? That will mean more famous streamers will flock here and they bring their fanbase. That will increase the pitiful population

2013 Autumn : When the paid tournaments where created 75% of the teams ceased to exist (most merged) , cause most teamembers where underage (Backpack had to w8 2 years) (Leader Mesmer from TP was from Egypt and we kept hearing the phase ‘’i can travel on my own’’ and the Anet response ’’No’’)

2014 till now : Its the company fault that we lost noobs and competive players and the PvP is in life support

Because i dont want to see that happen again , i will simply ‘’erase every1’’ .
Top players will have their have their chance to have an other State of game and listen their ideas about buffing in the future .
But if i have to choose between a community that failed 2 years now and the continuetion of the Real money tournaments ….. theres not even a contest what to choose

So when the game laucnhed all of us , she should take a break :P