Guild Wars 2

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

GW2 is not the right game for you if you think that class-skill is important. It’s more about rotation and movement.

What is combat without “class-skill” as you so put it?

While I agree that some passive stuff may be OP, I think that getting rid of passive benefits overall is an awful idea. Active benefits often supersede passive ones, with the drawback being the diversion of focus and/or other resources. Passive benefits give your character the ability to focus on what’s most important in a fight, rather than having to focus on every little bit and piece of the puzzle. This has become incredibly important to me. Because I have a decent array of passive benefits that my character is able to access, as well as a number of active benefits that I have been committing to muscle memory, I can now focus on positioning and territory much more with my S/D thief build than I ever could have done before. It’s one of the reasons that I disagree with Jumper; his playstyle focuses on having many active benefits while mine focuses on passive benefits. The difference is that he directly gains more from the active benefits in his 0/30/0/30/10 S/D build, but that focus causes him to have to sacrifice weapon options as well as time that could have been spent focusing on other intricate details of the battle. It’s funny how important the placement of a single Shadow Return is to the outcome of the entire fight, or a single immobilize can help you cap or decap a point.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Player Character.9467:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

and click on my various utilities.

Well there’s your problem.

No mouse, no right click, no right click hold, no gamer mouse Believe me, I’ve tried surrounding my hands with every “recommended” keybinds system that other people use, and it doesn’t work. There’s only one thing that lets me Move, Target, Change my Camera, Dodge, and take action at the same time, and that is if I use the mouse to quickly execute skills and target with them while my keybinds are devoted to movement and dodging.

I’ve gotten quite good at it, but nonetheless unless I blow a lot of money on a gaming mouse (and a table to use it on), I can’t overcome those limits.

There is such a thing called tab targetting.

You don’t need a gaming mouse. Virtually all mouses nowadays have a back key a forward key and a middle mouse button. That is a gaming mouse.

Erebos.6741:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

GW2 is not the right game for you if you think that class-skill is important. It’s more about rotation and movement.

What is combat without “class-skill” as you so put it?

Watch all the necros rerolled, because A-Net failed at balancing this class and see how effective they are. The player itself has not even have to be good. Why? Because GW2 supports the idea of spamming skillz rather than using them for the right situation. Why? Because there is no energy-management behind it.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Erebos.6741:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

GW2 is not the right game for you if you think that class-skill is important. It’s more about rotation and movement.

What is combat without “class-skill” as you so put it?

Watch all the necros rerolled, because A-Net failed at balancing this class and see how effective they are. The player itself has not even have to be good. Why? Because GW2 supports the idea of spamming skillz rather than using them for the right situation. Why? Because there is no energy-management behind it.

Oh I see what you mean now

Yeah I kind-of agree with you to an extent.
While I’m not sure what the core of the problem is, I understand your argument to mean the risk : reward ratio of some Necro-centric abilities, in that correlating with the network of other Necromancer skills, they are perceived to be overpowered as compared to other professions.

Am I right in my assumption?

Erebos.6741:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

Erebos.6741:

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

GW2 is not the right game for you if you think that class-skill is important. It’s more about rotation and movement.

What is combat without “class-skill” as you so put it?

Watch all the necros rerolled, because A-Net failed at balancing this class and see how effective they are. The player itself has not even have to be good. Why? Because GW2 supports the idea of spamming skillz rather than using them for the right situation. Why? Because there is no energy-management behind it.

Oh I see what you mean now

Yeah I kind-of agree with you to an extent.
While I’m not sure or the core of the problem (for a number of reasons), I understand your argument to mean the risk : reward ratio of some Necro-centric abilities, in that correlating with the network of other Necromancer skills, they are perceived to be overpowered as compared to other professions.

Am I right in my assumption?

Well what I see with lots of experienced players is: they can be very skilled with their class, but when it comes to roaming and rotation they fail. Observe some so called “top-players” and you will see why roatation > class-skill. If I look at them I see a player, like everyone else using the same skill roation / same skills in certain situations. Nothing special really.
What they take advantage of is their situational awareness and the following intelligent rotation. This means they know when they have to push far, or help on close point (whatever specc they play).

This makes the difference, there is no special secret behind it. I see ppl duelling top-players and win with the exact same build easily. I experienced how bad class-wise some pro-players actually are, sometimes including myself.

^ People tend to forget it’s all about conquest. While you may be pro at 1v1 and such, rotating and overall map strategy is more important.

jmatb.6307:

lol just summoning spirits, healing, and weapon attacks are the laziest way to play i’ve seen on this game. There is no argument anybody can make otherwise.

Ele and Thief takes zero skill? They are the squishiest classes in the game if you aren’t on top of your game you will get slaughtered. They start with 10k health and have to actually press buttons to heal themselves, with an s.

A Thief and Ele, btw, have to work their butts off to get the same results as an AFK Ranger

I hope this is a joke. Theif’s can turn invisible at the touch of a button and never be seen again. Ele as someone said before have very strong Burst Damage even when invested heavily in survival traits and gear.

o_O if a ranger is AFK he is dead.
I was on WvW the other day and stopped for a second to take a drink, I died in about a second from a cloaked thief doing insane burst damage. As a ranger the only way to stand a chance against a thief is if you see them coming otherwise you lose soooo much health in the first burst you might as well kiss your Kitten goodbye. And the pet A.I is sooooooo broken especially against thief that rangers basically are at a 15-30% disadvantage to any other profession.

I know you’re just going to say, “But we’re squidgy” How the Kitten are you meant to hit something you cant see?

And FYI rangers are squidgy too.

cbrooks, pvp is not wvw. A thief instagibbing you there is mostly because of the stats they can stack and a choice people make to not stack armor in favor of offense. If you stack condi dmg or power you can expect thieves, especially experienced ones, to gib you b/c you’ve made that tradeoff.

I’ve already made a post going over what you do against a thief. They do not disappear entirely, just from your view. They are not immune to everything like Mesmers are when they use distortion. Good players recognize that Thieves that do not port out are susceptible to damage and punish them accordingly if they use stealth predictably. They can kite them with just moving around too.

AFK is a sarcastic way of describing the meta ranger, where passive bonuses through spirits, signets, etc. are what the Ranger rides to get the same production as other classes who actually use all their utilities throughout the fight. It requires nowhere near as much awareness and skill to run a Ranger right now as other classes.

For the above posts I agree that rotation is important, but 1v1 is still important because when you have to bring 2 guys to take one down that takes away from secondary objectives and team fights.

If that guy that requires 2 people to take down is using cooldowns, CC, and healing effectively I respect that. A well played Bunker Guardian, Elementalist, and Engineer, who have to earn their sustain more than rely on passives, are good players.

But when 2 people have to take down one guy who is just spamming their weapons and heal I don’t respect that. They are getting carried by their spec and regardless of whether or not they may be a good player, that is an advantage that does not belong in a PvP setting where skill is supposed to outweigh the class mechanics.

It gets worse when these types of specs are used offensively as well. A spirit ranger spreads burns through their sun spirit, and the burns from necros through Dhuumfire make it where you cleanse burn and you get another 10 seconds of it. All through traits and utilities you set and forget.

That is garbage and anybody with a pulse and awareness of basic targeting can be successful that way. It is more effective than what an entire professions, with all their tools, brings to the table, and they didn’t earn it.

Instead of arguing back and forth, why don’t u, jmatb.6307, create a spirit ranger and post a vid beating someone. Even simpler, I’m sure there’s folks here who stream, have one of them spectate ur fight and post it. I’d luv to see the “ease” of which u kick kitten …

@jmatb.6307 Sad part is you don’t know what your talking about.

Really starting to get sick of hearing you rant when you CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA.

This is the difference between top tier and below lower-tier players.

jmatb.6307:

They are not immune to everything like Mesmers are when they use distortion.

Just on a side note. I truly don’t understand how people think mesmers are still viable as of lately. There is no way to compare a S/D thief evasiveness with a mesmer. Just so you know, after you pop distortion the conditions keep doing damage. Same with thiefs once they teleport back.. but thiefs have access to cleanse, and mesmers don’t.

jmatb.6307:

cbrooks, pvp is not wvw. A thief instagibbing you there is mostly because of the stats they can stack and a choice people make to not stack armor in favor of offense. If you stack condi dmg or power you can expect thieves, especially experienced ones, to gib you b/c you’ve made that tradeoff.

I’ve already made a post going over what you do against a thief. They do not disappear entirely, just from your view. They are not immune to everything like Mesmers are when they use distortion. Good players recognize that Thieves that do not port out are susceptible to damage and punish them accordingly if they use stealth predictably. They can kite them with just moving around too.

AFK is a sarcastic way of describing the meta ranger, where passive bonuses through spirits, signets, etc. are what the Ranger rides to get the same production as other classes who actually use all their utilities throughout the fight. It requires nowhere near as much awareness and skill to run a Ranger right now as other classes.

For the above posts I agree that rotation is important, but 1v1 is still important because when you have to bring 2 guys to take one down that takes away from secondary objectives and team fights.

If that guy that requires 2 people to take down is using cooldowns, CC, and healing effectively I respect that. A well played Bunker Guardian, Elementalist, and Engineer, who have to earn their sustain more than rely on passives, are good players.

But when 2 people have to take down one guy who is just spamming their weapons and heal I don’t respect that. They are getting carried by their spec and regardless of whether or not they may be a good player, that is an advantage that does not belong in a PvP setting where skill is supposed to outweigh the class mechanics.

It gets worse when these types of specs are used offensively as well. A spirit ranger spreads burns through their sun spirit, and the burns from necros through Dhuumfire make it where you cleanse burn and you get another 10 seconds of it. All through traits and utilities you set and forget.

That is garbage and anybody with a pulse and awareness of basic targeting can be successful that way. It is more effective than what an entire professions, with all their tools, brings to the table, and they didn’t earn it.

Rofl, the fact that you think Those 3 classes aren’t passive in most of things they do is kind of hilarious

Not only do they get most of their boons by doing nothing but using skills they’d normally use, they get a bunch of freebies as well.

Elementalist for example..

Elemental Attunement

You get that just by swapping attunements which you’ll always do, It’d be like if I got protection every time I told my pet to retreat or fury every time I told it to attack.

Renewing Stamina, hey here is free vigor whenever you crit.

Evasive Arcana, again.. Passive Effects for doing something you’d normally be doing anyway, No thought to it.

Glyph of Elemental power is basically Sun Spirit in every way.

Sol.4310:

@jmatb.6307 Sad part is you don’t know what your talking about.

Really starting to get sick of hearing you rant when you CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA.

This is the difference between top tier and below lower-tier players.

You are a Spirit Ranger on a 2 Spirit Ranger 2 Necro Guardian team dude. Your team is exactly what’s wrong with the meta at the moment.

This is the difference between people who are being carried by a spec and people who actually work for their success. The Das Goon guy gets threatened and calls me clueless. The Team Paradigm guy agrees and adds to the argument.

The constructive suggestions thread and state of the meta thread are full with people asking for less passive play, especially for your class.

Don’t bring that here. You are getting carried by your build

I main ele and if you think spirit ranger is OP then you need your head checked.

He’s a thief who got killed by one. Just take it as him QQing because he has to actually think while fighting one.

Xsorus.2507:

jmatb.6307:

cbrooks, pvp is not wvw. A thief instagibbing you there is mostly because of the stats they can stack and a choice people make to not stack armor in favor of offense. If you stack condi dmg or power you can expect thieves, especially experienced ones, to gib you b/c you’ve made that tradeoff.

I’ve already made a post going over what you do against a thief. They do not disappear entirely, just from your view. They are not immune to everything like Mesmers are when they use distortion. Good players recognize that Thieves that do not port out are susceptible to damage and punish them accordingly if they use stealth predictably. They can kite them with just moving around too.

AFK is a sarcastic way of describing the meta ranger, where passive bonuses through spirits, signets, etc. are what the Ranger rides to get the same production as other classes who actually use all their utilities throughout the fight. It requires nowhere near as much awareness and skill to run a Ranger right now as other classes.

For the above posts I agree that rotation is important, but 1v1 is still important because when you have to bring 2 guys to take one down that takes away from secondary objectives and team fights.

If that guy that requires 2 people to take down is using cooldowns, CC, and healing effectively I respect that. A well played Bunker Guardian, Elementalist, and Engineer, who have to earn their sustain more than rely on passives, are good players.

But when 2 people have to take down one guy who is just spamming their weapons and heal I don’t respect that. They are getting carried by their spec and regardless of whether or not they may be a good player, that is an advantage that does not belong in a PvP setting where skill is supposed to outweigh the class mechanics.

It gets worse when these types of specs are used offensively as well. A spirit ranger spreads burns through their sun spirit, and the burns from necros through Dhuumfire make it where you cleanse burn and you get another 10 seconds of it. All through traits and utilities you set and forget.

That is garbage and anybody with a pulse and awareness of basic targeting can be successful that way. It is more effective than what an entire professions, with all their tools, brings to the table, and they didn’t earn it.

Rofl, the fact that you think Those 3 classes aren’t passive in most of things they do is kind of hilarious

Not only do they get most of their boons by doing nothing but using skills they’d normally use, they get a bunch of freebies as well.

Elementalist for example..

Elemental Attunement

You get that just by swapping attunements which you’ll always do, It’d be like if I got protection every time I told my pet to retreat or fury every time I told it to attack.

Renewing Stamina, hey here is free vigor whenever you crit.

Evasive Arcana, again.. Passive Effects for doing something you’d normally be doing anyway, No thought to it.

Glyph of Elemental power is basically Sun Spirit in every way.

Evasive Arcana has a price. If you evade in water, a patient, good player is going to dump all their damage on you as soon as you switch out. It is very strong, but it is not God Mode. Evasive Arcana types of skills are much more interesting and better than % increases to damage or toughness.

I completely agree with Renewing Vigor. It makes it stupid to take another trait, although there are other passive choices there that are just as cheesy. Free Arcane Shield for getting low on health.

You only get burning from fire attunement skills at a 25% chance, and on top of it, that skill is terrrible to bring in comparison to Arcane Shield, Armor of Earth, or Mist Form. It’s a better skill to use as preparation rather than reacting, which makes it a bad stun break choice imo.

I am not on a vendetta for Rangers. Eles have a degree of passive play that makes them cheesy too. Signet of Restoration never needs to be used and returns much more as a skill than it ought to. It’s pretty dumb not to run SoResto as an Ele, which is something I don’t like about it.

Every class has these kinds of problems, and they encourage cookie cutter copy+pasting that limits creativity and narrows the metagame.

Lol this is still going on?
How about you stay on topic of how passive play is bad, instead of complaining about spirit rangers.
Eles and guardians are also offenders of this too.

Did you read anything I just said lol

jmatb.6307:

Did you read anything I just said lol

My bad, I typed that before you posted.
But a passive % chance for something like the ele burning is exactly what spirit ranger has that you complain about “passive play”, except its traited and uses skillslots (that albeit have a second skill that is very good, but it requires proper positioning and has a very long cooldown and windup)

saVdoom.2067:

jmatb.6307:

They are not immune to everything like Mesmers are when they use distortion.

Just on a side note. I truly don’t understand how people think mesmers are still viable as of lately. There is no way to compare a S/D thief evasiveness with a mesmer. Just so you know, after you pop distortion the conditions keep doing damage. Same with thiefs once they teleport back.. but thiefs have access to cleanse, and mesmers don’t.

I wasn’t talking about S/D I was talking about stealth.

Now if we are talking S/D then yes that is actually worse than Spirit Ranger because at least you can hit the spirit ranger. Sword Dagger got buffed through other classes’ buffs because evade spamming is far more difficult to time a response to than Distortion or any other form of immunity. Necros get dumped on by S/D thieves b/c its easy to make the miss their skills. You have to hit them to get the burning from Spirits and they kill the spirits really fast because of the damage.

That’s why I stopped running S/D after a couple matches. It’s so broken and easy to play.

Celebratty.1632:

jmatb.6307:

Did you read anything I just said lol

My bad, I typed that before you posted.
But a passive % chance for something like the ele burning is exactly what spirit ranger has that you complain about “passive play”, except its traited and uses skillslots (that albeit have a second skill that is very good, but it requires proper positioning and has a very long cooldown and windup)

If I made a list of passive play mechanics across all professions it would probably fill up an entire page.

This brings up the question of whether or not we really need 60 traits to choose from if they are all balanced around giving passive boosts. If we had a lower trait pool and more dynamic options then I think PvP would be easier to balance and promote better players.

jmatb.6307:

Celebratty.1632:

jmatb.6307:

Did you read anything I just said lol

My bad, I typed that before you posted.
But a passive % chance for something like the ele burning is exactly what spirit ranger has that you complain about “passive play”, except its traited and uses skillslots (that albeit have a second skill that is very good, but it requires proper positioning and has a very long cooldown and windup)

If I made a list of passive play mechanics across all professions it would probably fill up an entire page.

This brings up the question of whether or not we really need 60 traits to choose from if they are all balanced around giving passive boosts. If we had a lower trait pool and more dynamic options then I think PvP would be easier to balance and promote better players.

Unfortunately, the majority of this game is based around traits. Its far too late to change them, as every single build is based around or has traits that make it viable.

PvP balance has been one whack a mole patch after another though. The pattern hasn’t changed. Traits have a lot of fat that can be trimmed.

If it’s not mega burst it’s condis. If it’s not BM Ranger it’s D/D cantrip ele. If it isn’t perma retal Phantasm it’s S/D Thief.

Phantasm Mesmer is still kittened though, and is another example of passive play. Faceroll from AIs while you dodge around in GS doing max damage with 70-80% crit chance at all times from your primary damage dealers.

Geff.1930:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

Player Character.9467:

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

and click on my various utilities.

Well there’s your problem.

No mouse, no right click, no right click hold, no gamer mouse Believe me, I’ve tried surrounding my hands with every “recommended” keybinds system that other people use, and it doesn’t work. There’s only one thing that lets me Move, Target, Change my Camera, Dodge, and take action at the same time, and that is if I use the mouse to quickly execute skills and target with them while my keybinds are devoted to movement and dodging.

I’ve gotten quite good at it, but nonetheless unless I blow a lot of money on a gaming mouse (and a table to use it on), I can’t overcome those limits.

There is such a thing called tab targetting.

You don’t need a gaming mouse. Virtually all mouses nowadays have a back key a forward key and a middle mouse button. That is a gaming mouse.

Mesmers will PWN you with tab targeting, Chuck Norris style.

Yes ranger passive play is out of control they spawn multiple pets then turn invisible or run away and leave them to kill you. Although not to worry you can kill the pets if you want, that wont stop them doing 3.5k+ damage on you in the first hit though now will it?

Oh wait that’s Mesmers….Phantasm spec the height of skill.

Zelulose.8695:

jmatb.6307:

At this point after 1400 tournament games and 3 champion class titles I am completely sick of passive benefits from traits and “skills” that give people an advantage by doing nothing but activate or not activate a skill.

I think traits need to be a series of active choices to choose from. More like Improvisation (steal recharges utilities) than Dagger Training (5% damage from daggers).

Signets, Spirits, Minions, and all other set and forget utilities ought to be reworked to be viable only in PvE.

I believe that the person who knows how to position, use active skills, and win through proper use of team work and tactics without riding passive bonuses ought to be the winner.

When two spirit rangers, two aoe spammers, and a guardian dominate matches that is complete garbage. They are not good players – they have strong builds.

I want active traits and utilities for every profession in PvP and all the passive junk put into PvE, where that kind of thing is needed to scale with enemy mobs.

I have to agree passive traits take skill requirements from the game.

Jeez, which is it Zel? You recently (today) posted a thread kittening about “invulnerable” thieves, but all of that evasion came from activated abilities. And even then you only tested it against a target dummy because you can’t be bothered to provide game play footage demonstrating why it needs attention. You’ll never be happy with this game—the passive abilities remove skill from the game—NO, WAIT—I mean the active abilities remove skill from the game! Your posts are not only contrary, they’re alarmist and unfounded.

Go play something else and leave the rest of us out of your complaining. This isn’t the game you would have designed. That much is clear.

jmatb.6307:

Sol.4310:

@jmatb.6307 Sad part is you don’t know what your talking about.

Really starting to get sick of hearing you rant when you CLEARLY HAVE NO IDEA.

This is the difference between top tier and below lower-tier players.

You are a Spirit Ranger on a 2 Spirit Ranger 2 Necro Guardian team dude. Your team is exactly what’s wrong with the meta at the moment.

This is the difference between people who are being carried by a spec and people who actually work for their success. The Das Goon guy gets threatened and calls me clueless. The Team Paradigm guy agrees and adds to the argument.

The constructive suggestions thread and state of the meta thread are full with people asking for less passive play, especially for your class.

Don’t bring that here. You are getting carried by your build

Here is brief history lesson. When Das Goon the team I joined started playing we Yolo Que’ed that lineup. We had it before the update and why should we stop playing our team comp cause of update that made you unhappy.

Why don’t you like everyone else learn how to counter these classes, you and rest that complain are like the rest “REFUSE” to change your team comp to counter the meta.

It’s like you think every single patch that comes out won’t change the meta, I personally can’t believe your having problems vs spirit rangers. Take a SB and kill all there spirits in the first 1-2 shots, that you just helped your team out. You put them on 60 second CD and they don’t help our team. The spirits also take around 1.5 seconds to cast and use there skill.

I have many of players I duel and train to counter spirits, I know thief I trained against he destroys my spirit build 1v1 NO PROBLEM I’ve never come close to beating him 1v1 with spirits, same with Ele friend of mine, and DPS guardian I know wipes all my spirits with his GS#2 skill gone, THERE GOSE ALL MY SUPPORT. What does the ranger have left nothing, the weakest damage in the game + most of spirit builds run rabid so we can’t tank for long.

This here is why the game is way it is atm, half of you just don’t know how to play.

YOUR PRIME E.G. of the problem you come to forums to QQ like no tomorrow demanding change to classes when there isn’t a problem, only problem I can see is maybe the Burning on the necro, but srsly they won’t slow our team down at all.

Please explain how your going to make the Spirit Ranger NOT SO PASSIVE, please tell me do even understand how the hell a ranger works.

I have over 2,000hrs of PvP on my ranger so please explain, I’m clueless and have no idea.

This thread should really just die. It’s clear OP doesn’t want to change up his build or tactics and so nothing will ever change for him. At this point in time we just give his silly whine attention that is undeserved.

Swiftpaw you made a kitten talking thread about me? How cute. I guess I’m getting right to the core of your insecurity in realizing that your class is entirely unable to contribute anything to a match without a series of crutches that are commonly known as Ranger mechanics.

Sol your class has been and apparently Anet wants it to be a series of crutches that make up for the pathetic and awful contributions you bring with your weapons. Ranger is a joke and always has been, which is a shame.

It’s shameful not because its players whine about being made less faceroll with a nerf to 100% critical strike chance on a pet with more than 2000 precision that does its best attack from stealth or because they get the easiest condi clear in the game with the only real challenge in paying attention to whether or not your pet is alive and switching it out strategically.

The shame is that my very first character in Guild Wars was a Ranger and I loved interrupting and CCing people with them and winning in PvP through subtlety. You beat them with dots and rendered them impotent through careful interrupts. You made your opponents break their keyboards and toss them out of their windows because you read them and punished their strategy.

You know how angry you get, and yet how much you have to respect someone who interrupts your heal? That was a Rangers full-time job in GW. Catch you when you’re vulnerable and punish you. I miss the hell out of that.

Ranger used to be GLORIOUS. It was the highest skill cap class to play in GW PvP along with mesmer. If you were on the midline in GW PvP you had to have incredible adaptive decision making and faster instincts.

Now they’ve been reduced to builds that all depend on something else to do the work for them. If it’s not spirits it’s pets. If it’s not pets it’s traps.

Who wants to play a class that can’t stand on its own two feet? I sure as hell don’t want to be that guy.

I also would like to see more emphasis on active skills and decision making rather than a paper/rock/scissors system of one build countering others. I share the OP’s wants to get rid of automated pets and systems that take player decision making out of the equation.

jmatb.6307:

Swiftpaw you made a kitten talking thread about me? How cute. I guess I’m getting right to the core of your insecurity in realizing that your class is entirely unable to contribute anything to a match without a series of crutches that are commonly known as Ranger mechanics.

Sol your class has been and apparently Anet wants it to be a series of crutches that make up for the pathetic and awful contributions you bring with your weapons. Ranger is a joke and always has been, which is a shame.

It’s shameful not because its players whine about being made less faceroll with a nerf to 100% critical strike chance on a pet with more than 2000 precision that does its best attack from stealth or because they get the easiest condi clear in the game with the only real challenge in paying attention to whether or not your pet is alive and switching it out strategically.

The shame is that my very first character in Guild Wars was a Ranger and I loved interrupting and CCing people with them and winning in PvP through subtlety. You beat them with dots and rendered them impotent through careful interrupts. You made your opponents break their keyboards and toss them out of their windows because you read them and punished their strategy.

Ranger used to be GLORIOUS. It was the highest skill cap class to play in GW PvP along with mesmer. If you were on the midline in GW PvP you had to have incredible adaptive decision making and faster instincts.

Now they’ve been reduced to builds that all depend on something else to do the work for them. If it’s not spirits it’s pets. If it’s not pets it’s traps.

Who wants to play a class that can’t stand on its own two feet? I sure as hell don’t want to be that guy.

OP went from mad, to mildly reasonable, to mad.
You’re digging yourself a deeper and deeper hole that no one agrees with. You might want to stop now, because more and more people are looking at you and thinking you’re silly.

jmatb.6307:

Swiftpaw you made a kitten talking thread about me? How cute. I guess I’m getting right to the core of your insecurity in realizing that your class is entirely unable to contribute anything to a match without a series of crutches that are commonly known as Ranger mechanics.

Are you delusional? I did no such thing >_> how awkward.

“Sol your class has been and apparently Anet wants it to be a series of crutches that make up for the pathetic and awful contributions you bring with your weapons. Ranger is a joke and always has been, which is a shame.”

So can we now say leave rangers out of your QQ, you just stated we are pathetic and awful contributions/joke.

Also just for you I made new topic.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Guide-How-to-Counter-Spirit-Rangers/first#post2464646

Ah the joys of reading the entire sentence. Weapon skills sir. Weapon skills.

It’s okay though every ranger has to come to grips at some point or another, when they examine what they do compared to the others.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xMrZxUdE8Y4/UOSxoFR1l0I/AAAAAAAAETY/W8cPrY9YOII/s1600/im-kittened.gif

Anyway, back to the point of the thread.

Spirits could stay channels, give a stronger AoE team support for about 6 to 10 seconds, but on a cooldown so that summoning a Spirit is a risk/reward situation instead of set and forget with traits that make it so that you don’t even really have to use the spirit to get benefit from it.

Everybody’s signets, I’m talking all classes, could provide stronger benefits on use and longer cooldowns.

All classes ought to have to use skills to remove conditions, and either increase cleansing or reduce the applications of necromancers who can put terror (yeah it is its own condition), bleeding, poison, torment, burning, weakness, chill, cripple, immobilize, and blinds on anybody. I’d go for the second not the first.

How about increasing Ranger Weapon damage and decreasing pets’ damage so that they Ranger actually accomplishes something with his weapons?

jmatb.6307:

Ah the joys of reading the entire sentence. Weapon skills sir. Weapon skills.

It’s okay though every ranger has to come to grips at some point or another, when they examine what they do compared to the others.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xMrZxUdE8Y4/UOSxoFR1l0I/AAAAAAAAETY/W8cPrY9YOII/s1600/im-kittened.gif

Anyway, back to the point of the thread.

Spirits could stay channels, give a stronger AoE team support for about 6 to 10 seconds, but on a cooldown so that summoning a Spirit is a risk/reward situation instead of set and forget with traits that make it so that you don’t even really have to use the spirit to get benefit from it.

Everybody’s signets, I’m talking all classes, could provide stronger benefits on use and longer cooldowns.

All classes ought to have to use skills to remove conditions, and either increase cleansing or reduce the applications of necromancers who can put terror (yeah it is its own condition), bleeding, poison, torment, burning, weakness, chill, cripple, immobilize, and blinds on anybody. I’d go for the second not the first.

How about increasing Ranger Weapon damage and decreasing pets’ damage so that they Ranger actually accomplishes something with his weapons?

You can take a thread that’s blatantly obviously ranger discussion to the ranger forums. How about we discuss something like guardian passive boons or thiefs crazy passive initiative regen?

Celebratty.1632:

jmatb.6307:

Ah the joys of reading the entire sentence. Weapon skills sir. Weapon skills.

It’s okay though every ranger has to come to grips at some point or another, when they examine what they do compared to the others.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xMrZxUdE8Y4/UOSxoFR1l0I/AAAAAAAAETY/W8cPrY9YOII/s1600/im-kittened.gif

Anyway, back to the point of the thread.

Spirits could stay channels, give a stronger AoE team support for about 6 to 10 seconds, but on a cooldown so that summoning a Spirit is a risk/reward situation instead of set and forget with traits that make it so that you don’t even really have to use the spirit to get benefit from it.

Everybody’s signets, I’m talking all classes, could provide stronger benefits on use and longer cooldowns.

All classes ought to have to use skills to remove conditions, and either increase cleansing or reduce the applications of necromancers who can put terror (yeah it is its own condition), bleeding, poison, torment, burning, weakness, chill, cripple, immobilize, and blinds on anybody. I’d go for the second not the first.

How about increasing Ranger Weapon damage and decreasing pets’ damage so that they Ranger actually accomplishes something with his weapons?

You can take a thread that’s blatantly obviously ranger discussion to the ranger forums. How about we discuss something like guardian passive boons or thiefs crazy passive initiative regen?

Whoah now let’s not talk about his precious thief!

Sure!

Quick Recovery on Thief is stupid it is a no-brainer trait that anybody with a pulse is going to take because it’s free resource. Pain Response would be a really good trait to take if this trait didn’t exist. It promotes laziness in initiative management that sustains the S/D #3 rotation. This is why I hate S/D thieves – they aren’t skillfully timing Larcenous Strike combos at certain times.

They are using it to literally dance around people and avoid most of their damage by spamming, evading, healing if they need to, switching weapons, stealing, and wiping up the slobber off the keyboard when they’re done facerolling.

Guardians getting free condi cleanse at adept is also lame. Their signet can remove 2 condis every 10 seconds if you trait it. They can get 180 power, healing power, and condi damage from signets if they ran that, which would be stupid but you see where I’m going.

The reason it steered that way, unfortunately, is because this description applies to an entire class. That isn’t my fault. I don’t have the answers as to why Rangers were made to be slaves to their passive mechanics.

If poison were any good then 33% extra duration would be cheesy, just like 33% extra burning duration on Engineers is. I really don’t like stat converters either, like Precision > Vit they negate the possibility of taking Vit runes.

Speaking of runes, why do traits add to the passive benefits these already provide? Why do eles get to have 20% extra damage at 90% health when they have the best healing in the game?

I’m going into deeper stuff than just Rangers… sorry you took it that way, but when people defend the class that exists entirely on that foundation it’s hard to not get trolled by it.

jmatb.6307:

Ah the joys of reading the entire sentence. Weapon skills sir. Weapon skills.

It’s okay though every ranger has to come to grips at some point or another, when they examine what they do compared to the others.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-xMrZxUdE8Y4/UOSxoFR1l0I/AAAAAAAAETY/W8cPrY9YOII/s1600/im-kittened.gif

Anyway, back to the point of the thread.

Spirits could stay channels, give a stronger AoE team support for about 6 to 10 seconds, but on a cooldown so that summoning a Spirit is a risk/reward situation instead of set and forget with traits that make it so that you don’t even really have to use the spirit to get benefit from it.

Everybody’s signets, I’m talking all classes, could provide stronger benefits on use and longer cooldowns.

All classes ought to have to use skills to remove conditions, and either increase cleansing or reduce the applications of necromancers who can put terror (yeah it is its own condition), bleeding, poison, torment, burning, weakness, chill, cripple, immobilize, and blinds on anybody. I’d go for the second not the first.

How about increasing Ranger Weapon damage and decreasing pets’ damage so that they Ranger actually accomplishes something with his weapons?

How many viable Signet builds do you come across in TPvP, I rarely see any. You see the odd BM/Bunker ranger but there team support is 0 and they took massive nerf to pet damage making them sub-par build. So why you would even bring up signet’s is beyond me. This is something left for the class forums where players who play that class can talk about buffs/nerfs not someone who has no idea.

Spirit’s have such a low HP pool with massive CD the risk vs reward is big, you remove them spirit’s at the start of fight what is the ranger left with, his weapon skill combo’s which aren’t really that bad if you know how to combo well. There is no set and forget, that is so beyond stupid, if your playing your spirit ranger that way then your a bad spirit ranger. Also do you know how small the area of effect is on a spirit’s active skill is. If you get in range of teams to use the spirit’s Active skill there High RISK there going to die. So risk vs reward is high.

And please never speak about ranger pet’s getting nerf again and buffing our weapons, you think we haven’t already stated this countless time’s on the ranger forums, we have learnt to play our class using combo of weapon/condition damage and pet damage. Also I don’t think you can nerf pets any harder after the last patch it gutted pets rather hard, making them really only viable in BM builds. Outside of BM builds they die fast.

Condition remove on the ranger is what hurts us the most, us rangers have made countless posts on the ranger forums asking for better condition remove, we transfer our conditions to our pet gimping our own damage, you say its to strong but it costs us allot in damage to take condition remove. Other classes remove just as many conditions without having to worry about gutting there damage. Also vs good burst team’s, there have been so many times my pet gets stuck in the middle of the damage and die’s. There goes all our condition remove. But you seem to think our condition remove is to strong what a kitting joke.

You say lets get back to topic but almost all of what you just said is directed at rangers. You have very little understand of the ranger.

jmatb.6307:

Sure!

Quick Recovery on Thief is stupid it is a no-brainer trait that anybody with a pulse is going to take because it’s free resource. Pain Response would be a really good trait to take if this trait didn’t exist. It promotes laziness in initiative management that sustains the S/D #3 rotation. This is why I hate S/D thieves – they aren’t skillfully timing Larcenous Strike combos at certain times.

They are using it to literally dance around people and avoid most of their damage by spamming, evading, healing if they need to, switching weapons, stealing, and wiping up the slobber off the keyboard when they’re done facerolling.

Guardians getting free condi cleanse at adept is also lame. Their signet can remove 2 condis every 10 seconds if you trait it. They can get 180 power, healing power, and condi damage from signets if they ran that, which would be stupid but you see where I’m going.

The reason it steered that way, unfortunately, is because this description applies to an entire class. That isn’t my fault. I don’t have the answers as to why Rangers were made to be slaves to their passive mechanics.

If poison were any good then 33% extra duration would be cheesy, just like 33% extra burning duration on Engineers is. I really don’t like stat converters either, like Precision > Vit they negate the possibility of taking Vit runes.

Speaking of runes, why do traits add to the passive benefits these already provide? Why do eles get to have 20% extra damage at 90% health when they have the best healing in the game?

I’m going into deeper stuff than just Rangers… sorry you took it that way, but when people defend the class that exists entirely on that foundation it’s hard to not get trolled by it.

I don’t like the % to another spec myself, because its generally either a noobtrap or some crazy free stats depending on your build.

Passive condi clears are really strong too, guards and rangers can spec into it and get free condi clears for no effort.

What would you have against a Signet that instead of sitting there removing condis, removes them on a cooldown that you can strategically time?

Spirit Ranger forces the other team to bring more AoE. Two of them makes it stupid not to. Your team is forcing everyone to play even more mindlessly than any meta we’ve seen yet. This makes HGH ledge spamming, which I also thoroughly despise, look noobish in comparison.

See how passive stuff is a vicious cycle? Now your pet, which you can’t do anything useful without, is getting killed by a bad trait that ends up getting you killed over time because you don’t have enough pets to keep eating condis.

So your class is so dependent on your pet that the dependent trait destroys the dependency and now you’re stuck trying to be independent and drop like a prom dress.

That isn’t my fault! I’m just pointing out how that is terrible for the game and ruining the meta for everybody, not just good players!

I hate seeing spirit rangers everywhere. I hate seeing necros everywhere.

You know what happens when you have to use skills to be good at them? People suck at them when they first try it. You have to learn it. What is the learning curve on spirit ranger? On the Necro 30/30/10 build? How much practice does that really take?

When people have to take time to learn something they end up having to get better in order to survive. That is better for everyone. There is nothing that infuriates me more than knowing that people are just spamming buttons and winning on specs they just tried, with no experience on the class or understanding of how it works.

jmatb.6307:

What would you have against a Signet that instead of sitting there removing condis, removes them on a cooldown that you can strategically time?

Spirit Ranger forces the other team to bring more AoE. Two of them makes it stupid not to. Your team is forcing everyone to play even more mindlessly than any meta we’ve seen yet. This makes HGH ledge spamming, which I also thoroughly despise, look noobish in comparison.

See how passive stuff is a vicious cycle? Now your pet, which you can’t do anything useful without, is getting killed by a bad trait that ends up getting you killed over time because you don’t have enough pets to keep eating condis.

So your class is so dependent on your pet that the dependent trait destroys the dependency and now you’re stuck trying to be independent and drop like a prom dress.

That isn’t my fault! I’m just pointing out how that is terrible for the game and ruining the meta for everybody, not just good players!

I hate seeing spirit rangers everywhere. I hate seeing necros everywhere.

You know what happens when you have to use skills to be good at them? People suck at them when they first try it. You have to learn it.

What is the learning curve on spirit ranger? On the Necro 30/30/10 build? How much practice does that really take?

Aaaand we’re immediately back.
I’ve tried being reasonable and contributing to this discussion, but no, you are just a broken record.
I’m done. Post your spirit ranger problems to the ranger forum and your necro problems to the necro forum. You clearly could care less about anything else.

I just ripped both of the classes I respect the most dude.

I can and ought to rip all of them for these crutches, but when spirit ranger keeps being defended when they are the pin up boys for passive play what am I supposed to say to that?

Tactics that include “I hope they don’t kick my crutches and make me fall over” don’t belong in PvP. Period.

jmatb.6307:

What would you have against a Signet that instead of sitting there removing condis, removes them on a cooldown that you can strategically time?

Spirit Ranger forces the other team to bring more AoE. Two of them makes it stupid not to. Your team is forcing everyone to play even more mindlessly than any meta we’ve seen yet. This makes HGH ledge spamming, which I also thoroughly despise, look noobish in comparison.

See how passive stuff is a vicious cycle? Now your pet, which you can’t do anything useful without, is getting killed by a bad trait that ends up getting you killed over time because you don’t have enough pets to keep eating condis.

So your class is so dependent on your pet that the dependent trait destroys the dependency and now you’re stuck trying to be independent and drop like a prom dress.

That isn’t my fault! I’m just pointing out how that is terrible for the game and ruining the meta for everybody, not just good players!

I hate seeing spirit rangers everywhere. I hate seeing necros everywhere.

You know what happens when you have to use skills to be good at them? People suck at them when they first try it. You have to learn it. What is the learning curve on spirit ranger? On the Necro 30/30/10 build? How much practice does that really take?

When people have to take time to learn something they end up having to get better in order to survive. That is better for everyone. There is nothing that infuriates me more than knowing that people are just spamming buttons and winning on specs they just tried, with no experience on the class or understanding of how it works.

Do you even think before you post, so last 2-3 weeks spirit rangers have been poping up every where, and you think only option is the nerf them. Or have some thief that doesn’t play ranger try and tell us how to balance our class.

Most of problem’s with teams atm they are so used to the #BURST META, they forget toughness doesn’t work against the #CONDITION META, this is half the reason people are on the QQ train and coming up with these stupid posts on how to balance classes.

Every class is easy once you learnt them doesn’t matter what build you run, where skill comes into play is know what your facing is running and what to do vs them, you just don’t spam skills and go GG that was easy, reason top tier players make it look like its the build doing all the work cause they have the know how to counter other players, also it brings knowing where to place yourself knowing when you move in or back out there so many factors in a game besides a build which makes a build good. Also most of the top teams combo there skills off the other classes on there team.

There is no cheese mode spec, before the update people would call the current meta cheese mode. It won’t change when the new patch comes soon and then it will bring new builds which people refuse to learn how to counter and will call it cheese spec and it needs to be nerft.

Same old crap just a different day, Yes there are some powerful builds out there but players refuse to learn how to counter them and want them to be nerft into the ground so they can go back to running there NO CONDITION REMOVE NO VITA BUILDS vs a condition team.

GG have a nice day, Learn to play.

This topic could have been a very constructive topic too. Sadly it’s been repeatedly side tracked and arguments have been drawn out and it’s pretty pointless.

So really, here is where it needs to be discerned and redirected (I’ll use my opinion to hopefully kickstart a series of following discussions that are more constructive):

Passive play across all classes is bad for raising the skill cap on competition, but it isn’t ALL passive effects; just ones that have a very unrestricted scope. For instance, there are pretty fair passive effects like flanking conditional ones or stun conditional ones the provide bonuses to the player based on position or the state the enemy is in, which is competitive because it can be made to be a centric feature for how their build works.

THEN, there are traits like Incendiary Powder and Dhuumfire (and etc), that are basically bonuses for building a particular way that proc randomly, easily, and consistently, and basically equate to an averaged 3k damage every 10s on top of crits and other damage, just for picking that trait and having precision.

Those traits are horrible because instead of defining or refining a playstyle, they just give you some bonus damage (or effects) and reward you basically for doing any attack with certain stats built.

Moving on to the specific topic of Spirit rangers, it really is a mixed bag. On one hand, rangers have to sacrifice utility slots that could otherwise be used for more survival or potentially damage, and they have to sacrifice trait points to make those utilities viable for competitive play.
However, due to the nature of Spirits, their really isn’t much thought that has to be put into when to use them. As long as rangers are staying out of cleave, Spirits are basically a fire and forget mechanic, and because of that they really aren’t good for pushing the level of competition in the game either.

The simplest fix for ranger spirits would be to make their uptime be shorter than their cooldown period. That way, ranger players have to put more thought into which engagements the Spirits are used in, and aren’t just being spammed on cooldown. That in turn could raise the skill cap (having to use the spirits at the right time, like Spirit of Nature), and create a more interactive playstyle.

Of course you didn’t answer the question of how difficult it is to teach spirit ranger or 30/30/10 necro.

Rock paper scissors is what children play. GW2 can be so much better than that.

Also, I’m speaking from having played 4 different classes to successful levels in tPvP. I’m not a thief, or ele, warrior, or engineer.

I play the game, not the class. That gives me perspective you obviously don’t comprehend.

Thank you jcbroe for bringing something that makes sense.

jcbroe.4329:

This topic could have been a very constructive topic too. Sadly it’s been repeatedly side tracked and arguments have been drawn out and it’s pretty pointless.

So really, here is where it needs to be discerned and redirected (I’ll use my opinion to hopefully kickstart a series of following discussions that are more constructive):

Passive play across all classes is bad for raising the skill cap on competition, but it isn’t ALL passive effects; just ones that have a very unrestricted scope. For instance, there are pretty fair passive effects like flanking conditional ones or stun conditional ones the provide bonuses to the player based on position or the state the enemy is in, which is competitive because it can be made to be a centric feature for how their build works.

THEN, there are traits like Incendiary Powder and Dhuumfire (and etc), that are basically bonuses for building a particular way that proc randomly, easily, and consistently, and basically equate to an averaged 3k damage every 10s on top of crits and other damage, just for picking that trait and having precision.

Those traits are horrible because instead of defining or refining a playstyle, they just give you some bonus damage (or effects) and reward you basically for doing any attack with certain stats built.

Moving on to the specific topic of Spirit rangers, it really is a mixed bag. On one hand, rangers have to sacrifice utility slots that could otherwise be used for more survival or potentially damage, and they have to sacrifice trait points to make those utilities viable for competitive play.
However, due to the nature of Spirits, their really isn’t much thought that has to be put into when to use them. As long as rangers are staying out of cleave, Spirits are basically a fire and forget mechanic, and because of that they really aren’t good for pushing the level of competition in the game either.

The simplest fix for ranger spirits would be to make their uptime be shorter than their cooldown period. That way, ranger players have to put more thought into which engagements the Spirits are used in, and aren’t just being spammed on cooldown. That in turn could raise the skill cap (having to use the spirits at the right time, like Spirit of Nature), and create a more interactive playstyle.

Allot valid point’s, I totally agree with the necro being overpowered, but there is no need to fix spirit’s, how hard is it for 1 person on the other team to kill the spirits in a few seconds. The spirit build isn’t the major problem here its the player base refusing to do something about it. Remember when HgH engineers were left unchecked they could spam nades like not tomorrow royally messing your team up. The same goes for spirit builds leave it unchecked what do you thinks going to happen. Your leaving powerful team support skills unchecked when they are so easy to counter.

Sure you can change the Passive effect to only last 30 seconds that I’m fine, as long as they change the CD on the active skill to match the nerf along with buffing the HP of the spirit so it can’t be killed so easy.

Most of the time in team fight’s spirit are long dead before they come off cd, so really it wouldn’t make a major change. The reason your seeing so many back point spirit rangers due to they can run Storm Spirit, that Active skill replaced the F2 on our burst pets with BM/Bunker builds, and having that extra protection and burning damage from other 2 spirits put it back in the game in terms of bunker and damage output. Also the Elite Spirit is major support skill for your team making the back point bunker vital part to almost any type of team comp. But it can be countered rather easy where as the bm/bunker couldn’t.

But in saying that, a spirit ranger will not beat a Engi 1v1 if that engi is running condition immunity which most are, its dead fight, most of the time the engi will win the fight. So does that mean we nerf engi’s so we can kill them 1v1. No it means there are counters out there players just don’t see it.

Don’t get me wrong jcbroe.4329 I respect you as player and you make allot good posts on the forums. But on the spirit topic I’m firm believer its the lack of knowledge on the players side that makes the spirit build seem so powerful.

When I face a spirit team, in TPvP i personal take down there sun spirit within seconds and rangers have rather low damage. Allot of the time at start of a fight I use my drakes F2 to nuke down there spirits, combo’ed with his blast finisher normally kills all 3 spirits.

jmatb.6307:

Xsorus.2507:

jmatb.6307:

It gets worse when these types of specs are used offensively as well. A spirit ranger spreads burns through their sun spirit, and the burns from necros through Dhuumfire make it where you cleanse burn and you get another 10 seconds of it. All through traits and utilities you set and forget.

That is garbage and anybody with a pulse and awareness of basic targeting can be successful that way. It is more effective than what an entire professions, with all their tools, brings to the table, and they didn’t earn it.

Rofl, the fact that you think Those 3 classes aren’t passive in most of things they do is kind of hilarious

Not only do they get most of their boons by doing nothing but using skills they’d normally use, they get a bunch of freebies as well.

Elementalist for example..

Elemental Attunement

You get that just by swapping attunements which you’ll always do, It’d be like if I got protection every time I told my pet to retreat or fury every time I told it to attack.

Renewing Stamina, hey here is free vigor whenever you crit.

Evasive Arcana, again.. Passive Effects for doing something you’d normally be doing anyway, No thought to it.

Glyph of Elemental power is basically Sun Spirit in every way.

Evasive Arcana has a price. If you evade in water, a patient, good player is going to dump all their damage on you as soon as you switch out. It is very strong, but it is not God Mode. Evasive Arcana types of skills are much more interesting and better than % increases to damage or toughness.

I completely agree with Renewing Vigor. It makes it stupid to take another trait, although there are other passive choices there that are just as cheesy. Free Arcane Shield for getting low on health.

You only get burning from fire attunement skills at a 25% chance, and on top of it, that skill is terrrible to bring in comparison to Arcane Shield, Armor of Earth, or Mist Form. It’s a better skill to use as preparation rather than reacting, which makes it a bad stun break choice imo.

I am not on a vendetta for Rangers. Eles have a degree of passive play that makes them cheesy too. Signet of Restoration never needs to be used and returns much more as a skill than it ought to. It’s pretty dumb not to run SoResto as an Ele, which is something I don’t like about it.

Every class has these kinds of problems, and they encourage cookie cutter copy+pasting that limits creativity and narrows the metagame.

Spirits have a price, a good patient player will just dump on your pets soon as they spawn completely removing them from the fight.

You only get Burning if you use Burning Skills in a Burning Tree at 25% on something that can’t be killed? Gee….That’s terrible… Oh and don’t get me started on the whole “And you’d never take that because this is so much better routine” The fact that you have better abilities doesn’t negate the fact you can get something very similar to Spirits that promotes passive play.

Your posts talk about the passive play of other classes, while completely ignoring all the stupid little passive play of other classes you just happen to play, which screams of Bias.

Sol.4310:

Allot valid point’s, I totally agree with the necro being overpowered, but there is no need to fix spirit’s, how hard is it for 1 person on the other team to kill the spirits in a few seconds. The spirit build isn’t the major problem here its the player base refusing to do something about it. Remember when HgH engineers were left unchecked they could spam nades like not tomorrow royally messing your team up. The same goes for spirit builds leave it unchecked what do you thinks going to happen. Your leaving powerful team support skills unchecked when they are so easy to counter.

Sure you can change the Passive effect to only last 30 seconds that I’m fine, as long as they change the CD on the active skill to match the nerf along with buffing the HP of the spirit so it can’t be killed so easy.

Most of the time in team fight’s spirit are long dead before they come off cd, so really it wouldn’t make a major change. The reason your seeing so many back point spirit rangers due to they can run Storm Spirit, that Active skill replaced the F2 on our burst pets with BM/Bunker builds, and having that extra protection and burning damage from other 2 spirits put it back in the game in terms of bunker and damage output. Also the Elite Spirit is major support skill for your team making the back point bunker vital part to almost any type of team comp. But it can be countered rather easy where as the bm/bunker couldn’t.

But in saying that, a spirit ranger will not beat a Engi 1v1 if that engi is running condition immunity which most are, its dead fight, most of the time the engi will win the fight. So does that mean we nerf engi’s so we can kill them 1v1. No it means there are counters out there players just don’t see it.

Don’t get me wrong jcbroe.4329 I respect you as player and you make allot good posts on the forums. But on the spirit topic I’m firm believer its the lack of knowledge on the players side that makes the spirit build seem so powerful.

When I face a spirit team, in TPvP i personal take down there sun spirit within seconds and rangers have rather low damage. Allot of the time at start of a fight I use my drakes F2 to nuke down there spirits, combo’ed with his blast finisher normally kills all 3 spirits.

Lol don’t get me wrong, I’m not arguing that the build is super strong at all, and I really don’t see any part of it being OP (other than why in the world they made the Storm Spirit not scale with power damage, but have its own scaling mechanism. Really don’t see the design philosophy behind that).

All in all I just want the game to be less mindless. Right now, even just watching myself or any other ranger play spirits, at the beginning of the match, Spirits aren’t so bad, and with the ranger in sight you can keep up with timing the cooldown on the spirits to make sure they have extended down times. But as a match progresses, there is more and more potential for rangers to gain 100% up time from their spirits, which basically just makes them a constant, team wide passive buff, with a very mindless playstyle that rewards the player just for using it.

I really personally don’t feel the build is OP at all, but when I put my bias aside and look at the game as a whole, I don’t think that any utilities (aside from signets) should be capable of having 100% uptime, which isn’t ranger exclusive.

So yes, while the majority of the problem players are facing is not knowing how to play against the build (or choosing not to), I still don’t think it justifies fire and forget mechanics (and the goes for every class, not just rangers for anybody else reading).

Xsorus.2507:

jmatb.6307:

Xsorus.2507:

jmatb.6307:

It gets worse when these types of specs are used offensively as well. A spirit ranger spreads burns through their sun spirit, and the burns from necros through Dhuumfire make it where you cleanse burn and you get another 10 seconds of it. All through traits and utilities you set and forget.

That is garbage and anybody with a pulse and awareness of basic targeting can be successful that way. It is more effective than what an entire professions, with all their tools, brings to the table, and they didn’t earn it.

Rofl, the fact that you think Those 3 classes aren’t passive in most of things they do is kind of hilarious

Not only do they get most of their boons by doing nothing but using skills they’d normally use, they get a bunch of freebies as well.

Elementalist for example..

Elemental Attunement

You get that just by swapping attunements which you’ll always do, It’d be like if I got protection every time I told my pet to retreat or fury every time I told it to attack.

Renewing Stamina, hey here is free vigor whenever you crit.

Evasive Arcana, again.. Passive Effects for doing something you’d normally be doing anyway, No thought to it.

Glyph of Elemental power is basically Sun Spirit in every way.

Evasive Arcana has a price. If you evade in water, a patient, good player is going to dump all their damage on you as soon as you switch out. It is very strong, but it is not God Mode. Evasive Arcana types of skills are much more interesting and better than % increases to damage or toughness.

I completely agree with Renewing Vigor. It makes it stupid to take another trait, although there are other passive choices there that are just as cheesy. Free Arcane Shield for getting low on health.

You only get burning from fire attunement skills at a 25% chance, and on top of it, that skill is terrrible to bring in comparison to Arcane Shield, Armor of Earth, or Mist Form. It’s a better skill to use as preparation rather than reacting, which makes it a bad stun break choice imo.

I am not on a vendetta for Rangers. Eles have a degree of passive play that makes them cheesy too. Signet of Restoration never needs to be used and returns much more as a skill than it ought to. It’s pretty dumb not to run SoResto as an Ele, which is something I don’t like about it.

Every class has these kinds of problems, and they encourage cookie cutter copy+pasting that limits creativity and narrows the metagame.

Spirits have a price, a good patient player will just dump on your pets soon as they spawn completely removing them from the fight.

You only get Burning if you use Burning Skills in a Burning Tree at 25% on something that can’t be killed? Gee….That’s terrible… Oh and don’t get me started on the whole “And you’d never take that because this is so much better routine” The fact that you have better abilities doesn’t negate the fact you can get something very similar to Spirits that promotes passive play.

Your posts talk about the passive play of other classes, while completely ignoring all the stupid little passive play of other classes you just happen to play, which screams of Bias.

Lol dude even if an ele did take that skill, which would not be a good idea for several reasons, you aren’t going to be in fire attunement long enough to see 20 seconds of burning being stacked on one target or some other fantasy scenario of fire and brimstone. Even if you did eles don’t have skills that proc multiple attacks at once in scepter or dagger, like Pistol Whip or Hundred Blades.

Those types of skills favor stuff that hits multiple times really fast like either bow on Ranger, GS on Warrior, etc.

I’ve already said that passive play on all classes ought to be addressed if you’re just reading what you want to see that’s not my problem.