Guild Wars 2

It’s not the stats (like celestial) that carry bad players and create a boring meta, it’s the impactful defensive passive procs that activate when an opponent successfully does something to you.
These traits are bad design and need to be removed or redesigned to make builds in PvP more skill based instead of playing themselves.
Here I will list all of these traits in the game.
Although many of them are currently weak and/or not used, they are just as bad design-wise as the ridiculously overpowered ones (like Soothing Bastion).

Elementalist: Burning Fire, Tempest Defense, Earth’s Embrace, Soothing Ice, Elemental Contingency, Final Shielding, Gale Song, Imbued Melodies, Elemental Bastion

Warrior: Defy Pain, Last Stand, Shrug It Off

Ranger: Enlargement, Shared Anguish, Protective Ward

Necromancer: Reaper’s Protection, Last Grasp

Guardian: Valorous Defense, Hunter’s Determination

Thief: Last Refuge, Pain Response, Hard to Catch, Don’t Stop, (and the passive evade on reaching 50% health that Anet wants to add next patch)

Engineer: Automated Medical Response, Autodefense Bomb Dispenser, Protection Injection, Transmute, Self-Regulating Defenses, Reactive Lenses

Mesmer: Desperate Decoy, Mirror of Anguish

Revenant: Pulsating Pestilence, Eye for an Eye, Versed in Stone, Soothing Bastion

Anet, for the sake of healthy and active PvP, please remove or rework all of these traits and refrain from making more of them in the future.

Relax. A certain amount of those is good. Complaining about Earth’s Embrace is ridiculous for instance.

Karl be like “They still complaining about passives? Let’s give them some more. lel”

Couldn’t agree more. Removing celestial was a lazy fix.

nah cele amulet been broken since it got buff, i been posting it here to be removed for a long time finally they listen.

Those passives are almost needed to survive all the passive offensive procs (like IP, panic strike, aim-assisted rocket, etc). Even “on-interrupt” traits add no skill, for the most part, as everyone is always using SOMETHING.

It would be better to just reduce celestial stats, or split celestial so there is a “power variant” (without any of the +condi damage) and a power variant (without any of the +power and ferocity) so that things like ele could still play the game.

But alas, power creep ho!!!!! Just keep down the same path that has already destroyed so many good things! BUFF BUFF BUFF!!!

Alekt.5803:

Relax. A certain amount of those is good. Complaining about Earth’s Embrace is ridiculous for instance.

I disagree, its not fine that the game is built around soo much passive carrying traits, hes not talking about how OP any of those traits may be, he just wants a more skill oriented game and so do I. It would be fine if all those traits still exited but required some sort of active play to take effect.

Although I do not mind seeing the celestial amulet along with other bunker amulets go if it means anet will have an easier time balancing their game.

Alekt.5803:

Relax. A certain amount of those is good. Complaining about Earth’s Embrace is ridiculous for instance.

Your comment shows that you never read / understood OP’s post. It’s not about whether or not Earth’s Embrace is “cheese”. Many of GW2’s passive procs aren’t very powerful but that’s not the problem at hand. The problem is Anet being so obsessed with all these “when your hp falls below X, active Y skill automatically” traits. They carry bad players and they’re the reason people aren’t dying in the current metagame. NOT the amulets. Back in 2012/2013 when there weren’t so many passive traits, cele, bird runes etc. existed in PVP and the game was way healthier than it is now. taking out the tanky amulets isn’t going to do anything to make the meta more skillful. It’ll just be a bunch of glassy people with matchups that have a random result instead of the better player always winning because so much of the game is not able to be influenced by the player.

Yes, 99% of the passive stuff is cancer for the game.

I was really hoping that they’d actually change Diamond Skin into some active condition removal, instead we got EVEN MORE PASSIVE STUFF.

+1

Strong unavoidable or (more or less) random offensive procs should get removed or at least nerfed too. Unfortunately this passive crap is kinda necessary to survive currently and will be even more so after energy sigil nerf and dmg buffs …

MLGKorno.5419:

The problem is Anet being so obsessed with all these “when your hp falls below X, active Y skill automatically” traits. They carry bad players and they’re the reason people aren’t dying in the current metagame. NOT the amulets. Back in 2012/2013 when there weren’t so many passive traits, cele, bird runes etc. existed in PVP and the game was way healthier than it is now. taking out the tanky amulets isn’t going to do anything to make the meta more skillful.

+1

And that:

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Unfortunately this passive crap is kinda necessary to survive currently and will be even more so after energy sigil nerf and dmg buffs …

I guess anet needs to recalculate the base stats – and then remove half of the passives.

MLGKorno.5419:

Alekt.5803:

Relax. A certain amount of those is good. Complaining about Earth’s Embrace is ridiculous for instance.

Your comment shows that you never read / understood OP’s post. It’s not about whether or not Earth’s Embrace is “cheese”. Many of GW2’s passive procs aren’t very powerful but that’s not the problem at hand. The problem is Anet being so obsessed with all these “when your hp falls below X, active Y skill automatically” traits. They carry bad players and they’re the reason people aren’t dying in the current metagame. NOT the amulets. Back in 2012/2013 when there weren’t so many passive traits, cele, bird runes etc. existed in PVP and the game was way healthier than it is now. taking out the tanky amulets isn’t going to do anything to make the meta more skillful. It’ll just be a bunch of glassy people with matchups that have a random result instead of the better player always winning because so much of the game is not able to be influenced by the player.

Exactly.

+1
Passives need to go.
Edit: especially the ones that make you invulnerable at 25% hp.

MLGKorno.5419:

Many of GW2’s passive procs aren’t very powerful but that’s not the problem at hand. The problem is Anet being so obsessed with all these “when your hp falls below X, active Y skill automatically” traits. They carry bad players and they’re the reason people aren’t dying in the current metagame. NOT the amulets. Back in 2012/2013 when there weren’t so many passive traits, cele, bird runes etc. existed in PVP and the game was way healthier than it is now. taking out the tanky amulets isn’t going to do anything to make the meta more skillful. It’ll just be a bunch of glassy people with matchups that have a random result instead of the better player always winning because so much of the game is not able to be influenced by the player.

Precisely why I made this post.
Anet needs to acknowledge that this is a huge problem especially if they want GW2 to go esports. Notice that in successful competitive games like League of Legends and Dota 2, all procs are controllable by the player. Even critical hits are pseudo-random instead of truly random. That is to say, every time you don’t crit, the chance for your next hit to crit goes up slightly based on your crit chance.

Removal/rework of all effects that proc without the player needing to do anything is the least Anet can do if GW2 is to be respected as a real esport.

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

The least they could do without a complete rebalance would be to make the passive procs themselves more active. Maybe something like:

Whenever a “when hit below X health activate skill Y” proc happens, you get that skill added to a special proc slot, which you can then activate yourself to use the skill. You could then balance that slot however it pleases, by having various procs overwrite each other if the skill was unused, or a queue or skills to use, or not even procing if a skill is unused in the slot.

Then at least there would be some player choice in using those procs.

Blue Hare.8612:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

Oh. Player carried by poorly designed passive traits spotted. Yeah you’re totally right. It’s definitely skillful and intentional when a player drops you to 25% hp and voila, you get a shield that heals you for 4K or an invulnerable elixir that buys time for you to recharge stealth gyro and reset the fight even further. Yeah, totally. That doesn’t carry at all. You’re absolutely right. It promotes skillful play, no doubt.

Lettuce.2945:

Blue Hare.8612:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

Oh. Player carried by poorly designed passive traits spotted. Yeah you’re totally right. It’s definitely skillful and intentional when a player drops you to 25% hp and voila, you get a shield that heals you for 4K or an invulnerable elixir that buys time for you to recharge stealth gyro and reset the fight even further. Yeah, totally. That doesn’t carry at all. You’re absolutely right. It promotes skillful play, no doubt.

Nice sarcasm. You are wrong though dude. The passive procs are fine generally. Stop crying about it kitten . This forum is full of mindless qq

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lettuce.2945:

Blue Hare.8612:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

Oh. Player carried by poorly designed passive traits spotted. Yeah you’re totally right. It’s definitely skillful and intentional when a player drops you to 25% hp and voila, you get a shield that heals you for 4K or an invulnerable elixir that buys time for you to recharge stealth gyro and reset the fight even further. Yeah, totally. That doesn’t carry at all. You’re absolutely right. It promotes skillful play, no doubt.

Nice sarcasm. You are wrong though dude. The passive procs are fine generally. Stop crying about it kitten . This forum is full of mindless qq

Yeah definitely mindless. I don’t know what I’m talking about at all. Wanna duel though? Pretty sure this “mindless qq’er” will kitten on you easily. You just can’t handle the truth. Look up the definition of passive. Do you even English? Passive requires nothing active. It just something that happens in specific scenarios. Just get out of here with your troll post. Stick to PvE forums.

If you’re gonna back down from my challenge, I won’t even acknowledge your posts from this point on. Just a confirmed troll.

Blue Hare.8612:

Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good.

If it requires you to actually do something to proc it, then it’s active rather than passive.

Lettuce.2945:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lettuce.2945:

Blue Hare.8612:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

Oh. Player carried by poorly designed passive traits spotted. Yeah you’re totally right. It’s definitely skillful and intentional when a player drops you to 25% hp and voila, you get a shield that heals you for 4K or an invulnerable elixir that buys time for you to recharge stealth gyro and reset the fight even further. Yeah, totally. That doesn’t carry at all. You’re absolutely right. It promotes skillful play, no doubt.

Nice sarcasm. You are wrong though dude. The passive procs are fine generally. Stop crying about it kitten . This forum is full of mindless qq

Yeah definitely mindless. I don’t know what I’m talking about at all. Wanna duel though? Pretty sure this “mindless qq’er” will kitten on you easily. You just can’t handle the truth. Look up the definition of passive. Do you even English? Passive requires nothing active. It just something that happens in specific scenarios. Just get out of here with your troll post. Stick to PvE forums.

If you’re gonna back down from my challenge, I won’t even acknowledge your posts from this point on. Just a confirmed troll.

Lol. Post of the year dude congrats. Glad to see i won the argument so you had to resort to a duel challenge. I am only a sapphire player so no doubt you would humiliate me witb your greatness. But still, no need for you to reply as you have lost the argument

Blue Hare.8612:

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

Passive traits that require you to do something are good and separate good players from bad players?? Huh?

1. The traits that really require you to do something aren’t passive
2. passive traits require you to do nothing. That’s the definition of passive. -You- don’t need to do anything to proc the auto jalis stance at 50% health. You just have to get hit by someone else until that. If you had not been outplayed then why would you ever drop low enough to proc it? It’s bad players that benefit the most from passive traits.

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Blue Hare.8612:

Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good.

If it requires you to actually do something to proc it, then it’s active rather than passive.

To give an example of what I mean: Lets look at Diamond Skin, we all agree that it is a passive right? Diamond Skin requires constant healing/regen to keep it working so the player has to focus on staying above 90% health. As hated as Diamond Skin was it did have an “active component” to it. I’m not saying that Diamond Skin was well designed but it works for my example.

Another one is Panic Strike for thief. It procs when the enemy is below 50% health, so as a thief you can try to find a target that is already below 50% and finish the job or try to nuke someone from full health that to get the immob. This one is maybe a bit borderline for what I mean by “require you to do something to proc” but I’m sure you get my point anyway.

Maybe not the best examples but that is what first came to my mind.

Blue Hare.8612:

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Blue Hare.8612:

Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good.

If it requires you to actually do something to proc it, then it’s active rather than passive.

To give an example of what I mean: Lets look at Diamond Skin, we all agree that it is a passive right? Diamond Skin requires constant healing/regen to keep it working so the player has to focus on staying above 90% health. As hated as Diamond Skin was it did have an “active component” to it. I’m not saying that Diamond Skin was well designed but it works for my example.

Another one is Panic Strike for thief. It procs when the enemy is below 50% health, so as a thief you can try to find a target that is already below 50% and finish the job or try to nuke someone from full health that to get the immob. This one is maybe a bit borderline for what I mean by “require you to do something to proc” but I’m sure you get my point anyway.

Maybe not the best examples but that is what first came to my mind.

Neither of these traits are passive though. Both require the player to consciously decide to do something in order to get the trait’s benefits. The ele has to heal himself back up, and the thief has to hit the opponent who is under 50% hp.
The passive proc traits with problematic design are the ones I listed in the original post.

Lettuce.2945:

Blue Hare.8612:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

Oh. Player carried by poorly designed passive traits spotted. Yeah you’re totally right. It’s definitely skillful and intentional when a player drops you to 25% hp and voila, you get a shield that heals you for 4K or an invulnerable elixir that buys time for you to recharge stealth gyro and reset the fight even further. Yeah, totally. That doesn’t carry at all. You’re absolutely right. It promotes skillful play, no doubt.

Can we please stop with these “spotted” comments? They are childish and don’t add anything to the discussion. Thanks.

I was talking in general and didn’t even mention that I was talking about GW. I did NOT mention any passives specifically. I did NOT say that all passives are good. I did NOT say that all passives in GW are well designed. It just looks like that ppl see passives procs as inherently evil, but when designed well they can be a great thing and add depth.

Granted, I could have been more specific when making that post, I apologize for that. I agree on one thing tho, Shooting Bastion and Self-Regulating Defenses are annoying. And I do include them to “Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring”.

SchmendrickTheMagician.8247:

Whenever a “when hit below X health activate skill Y” proc happens, you get that skill added to a special proc slot, which you can then activate yourself to use the skill. You could then balance that slot however it pleases, by having various procs overwrite each other if the skill was unused, or a queue or skills to use, or not even procing if a skill is unused in the slot.

Then at least there would be some player choice in using those procs.

Doing that would make them the traits insanely powerful because the player now has direct control of them. The advantage of the “automatically active Y at X health” passives is that they always occur regardless of whether the player wants them to or not, which can be advantageous for the enemy.

Static passive traits are ok, but have no passive stuff would be better.

Having a trait which says when you reach 50% hp you gain X is not RNG, but leave everything to the players would be cleary better.

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Blue Hare.8612:

CaptainShrimps.9143:

Blue Hare.8612:

Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good.

If it requires you to actually do something to proc it, then it’s active rather than passive.

To give an example of what I mean: Lets look at Diamond Skin, we all agree that it is a passive right? Diamond Skin requires constant healing/regen to keep it working so the player has to focus on staying above 90% health. As hated as Diamond Skin was it did have an “active component” to it. I’m not saying that Diamond Skin was well designed but it works for my example.

Another one is Panic Strike for thief. It procs when the enemy is below 50% health, so as a thief you can try to find a target that is already below 50% and finish the job or try to nuke someone from full health that to get the immob. This one is maybe a bit borderline for what I mean by “require you to do something to proc” but I’m sure you get my point anyway.

Maybe not the best examples but that is what first came to my mind.

Neither of these traits are passive though. Both require the player to consciously decide to do something in order to get the trait’s benefits. The ele has to heal himself back up, and the thief has to hit the opponent who is under 50% hp.
The passive proc traits with problematic design are the ones I listed in the original post.

Okay, we might be looking at this differently and there might be some miscommunication and misunderstandings. Anyway the kind of traits I presented above that require some active component are thing I support and would like see more.

To my defense tho , you listed Strider’s Defense in those passives in your post. Strider’s Defense needs action to work, altho it is in autoattack but you would not normally swing your sword around when there is a ranger 1500 away shooting at you. It changes the way you play in some situations, it is not just “trait and forget”.

Blue Hare.8612:

To my defense tho , you listed Strider’s Defense in those passives in your post. Strider’s Defense needs action to work, altho it is in autoattack but you would not normally swing your sword around when there is a ranger 1500 away shooting at you. It changes the way you play in some situations, it is not just “trait and forget”.

You’re right on that actually. Although Strider’s Defense is problematic design in a different way, it’s true that it doesn’t belong on this particular list. I will remove it from the original post.

CaptainShrimps.9143:

It’s not the stats (like celestial) that carry bad players and create a boring meta, it’s the impactful defensive passive procs that activate when an opponent successfully does something to you.
These traits are bad design and need to be removed or redesigned to make builds in PvP more skill based instead of playing themselves.
Here I will list all of these traits in the game.
Although many of them are currently weak and/or not used, they are just as bad design-wise as the ridiculously overpowered ones (like Soothing Bastion).

Elementalist: Burning Fire, Tempest Defense, Earth’s Embrace, Soothing Ice, Elemental Contingency, Final Shielding, Gale Song, Imbued Melodies, Elemental Bastion

Warrior: Defy Pain, Last Stand, Shrug It Off

Ranger: Enlargement, Shared Anguish, Protective Ward

Necromancer: Reaper’s Protection, Last Grasp

Guardian: Valorous Defense, Hunter’s Determination

Thief: Last Refuge, Pain Response, Hard to Catch, Don’t Stop, (and the passive evade on reaching 50% health that Anet wants to add next patch)

Engineer: Automated Medical Response, Autodefense Bomb Dispenser, Protection Injection, Transmute, Self-Regulating Defenses, Reactive Lenses

Mesmer: Desperate Decoy, Mirror of Anguish

Revenant: Pulsating Pestilence, Eye for an Eye, Versed in Stone, Soothing Bastion

Anet, for the sake of healthy and active PvP, please remove or rework all of these traits and refrain from making more of them in the future.

+1 for this.

+1 I agree with you.

Hunter’s Determination is a bit “dumb” but outside spvp on WvW not even that can save u with the pirate CC range, so that would have to server for another Aegis mod., altough i think that is what saves DH from being complete faceroled against certain classes and at least have a chance.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lettuce.2945:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Lettuce.2945:

Blue Hare.8612:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Incorrect. Passive procs arent always bad. They add complexity and skill in many cases in fact and they add to the depth of the game.

Agree, Passives that require you to do something to proc them are good. They add depth as you can center your build or playstyle around them and be actively trying to proc them.

It kind of separates good and inexperienced players, good players try to optimize their play to utilize those procs at their full potential. Players that don’t know what they are doing just play and proc them accidentally without thinking about them.

Of course there are some passives that you can just trait and forget, those are quite boring.

Oh. Player carried by poorly designed passive traits spotted. Yeah you’re totally right. It’s definitely skillful and intentional when a player drops you to 25% hp and voila, you get a shield that heals you for 4K or an invulnerable elixir that buys time for you to recharge stealth gyro and reset the fight even further. Yeah, totally. That doesn’t carry at all. You’re absolutely right. It promotes skillful play, no doubt.

Nice sarcasm. You are wrong though dude. The passive procs are fine generally. Stop crying about it kitten . This forum is full of mindless qq

Yeah definitely mindless. I don’t know what I’m talking about at all. Wanna duel though? Pretty sure this “mindless qq’er” will kitten on you easily. You just can’t handle the truth. Look up the definition of passive. Do you even English? Passive requires nothing active. It just something that happens in specific scenarios. Just get out of here with your troll post. Stick to PvE forums.

If you’re gonna back down from my challenge, I won’t even acknowledge your posts from this point on. Just a confirmed troll.

Lol. Post of the year dude congrats. Glad to see i won the argument so you had to resort to a duel challenge. I am only a sapphire player so no doubt you would humiliate me witb your greatness. But still, no need for you to reply as you have lost the argument

You’re only sapphire and you think you know how the game should work? You’re kidding me right?

I think we can conclude this guy is a confirmed forum troll.

I’m not disagreeing or anything, I would love to see these gone, but I just wanna say that Pulsating Pestilence is broken and only spreads a single stack of Torment.

I am going to be the first one to fully completely disagree with this. Most of those traits have a long cooldown.

Passive defensive proc is a second wind. It keeps me from getting ganked from god-knows-where and give me time to realize what is going on. However, because of the long cooldowns, I can’t get another second wind for another gank.

It stops the game from being Gank wars 2: Shoot first to win. With the bunker meta out of the way, passive defensive procs are more necessary otherwise there will be a even more toxic meta where players gets 100 to 0 all the time and then quit.

If defensive passive procs get removed, I can’t wait to hear your complaints about one-shot meta and watch ANet nerf the damage back to the bunker meta. I can’t wait to hear complaints about all builds requiring defensive utilities like warriors is already suffering with stances.

I have no problem with passives. They buy more time and are annoying, but ultimately they just a stall for a few more secs. The big problem comes when you combine them with defensive trait lines and amulets. With most of these defensive amulets going out the window, the passives should come back in line. The biggest offenders that promote lots of regen are the biggest offenders that should get a bit of a nerf, but not by much. This is an mmo, not an fps. Fights should last for more then a few seconds. If you disagree maybe youre playing the wrong game.

Stand The Wall.6987:

I have no problem with passives. They buy more time and are annoying, but ultimately they just a stall for a few more secs. The big problem comes when you combine them with defensive trait lines and amulets. With most of these defensive amulets going out the window, the passives should come back in line. The biggest offenders that promote lots of regen are the biggest offenders that should get a bit of a nerf, but not by much. This is an mmo, not an fps. Fights should last for more then a few seconds. If you disagree maybe youre playing the wrong game.

Just because it’s an MMO, doesn’t mean we need passives for good gameplay that doesn’t end in seconds. The problem, however, is that these passives are just there to protect you from messing up and sometimes even reward you for doing stupid things.
Remember Vamp runes? People used them because it defended you from getting bursted down, regardless of your own skill. You went way too far and got punished accordingly? That’s fine, because even if you’re 1v5, the passives will keep you alive for a bit longer, potentially allowing an escape.

runeblade.7514:

I am going to be the first one to fully completely disagree with this. Most of those traits have a long cooldown.

Passive defensive proc is a second wind. It keeps me from getting ganked from god-knows-where and give me time to realize what is going on. However, because of the long cooldowns, I can’t get another second wind for another gank.

It stops the game from being Gank wars 2: Shoot first to win. With the bunker meta out of the way, passive defensive procs are more necessary otherwise there will be a even more toxic meta where players gets 100 to 0 all the time and then quit.

If defensive passive procs get removed, I can’t wait to hear your complaints about one-shot meta and watch ANet nerf the damage back to the bunker meta. I can’t wait to hear complaints about all builds requiring defensive utilities like warriors is already suffering with stances.

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

E.g. revenant gets bursted, he’s a bad player so he doesn’t react in time to mitigate at least some of the burst. But no worries! Crystal hibernation procs at 25%. After the proc, he is then able to activate another crystal hibernation from shield 5, he then activates glint heal after that if the 2 crystal hibernations didnt heal him enough. If nobody hits him during glint, he then heals with sword 4, followed by sword 3 before glint heal ends. Before sword 3 ends, he switches to shiro and uses shiro dodge while switching to staff. Using staff 3 and 5 after that ensures his absolute survival after that.

And there we have the typical revenant player abusing chain defenses. All of this would not have happened if not for the passive proc.

Btw all those op passive procs are on a low cd like 48s.

ReaperJr.5967:

runeblade.7514:

I am going to be the first one to fully completely disagree with this. Most of those traits have a long cooldown.

Passive defensive proc is a second wind. It keeps me from getting ganked from god-knows-where and give me time to realize what is going on. However, because of the long cooldowns, I can’t get another second wind for another gank.

It stops the game from being Gank wars 2: Shoot first to win. With the bunker meta out of the way, passive defensive procs are more necessary otherwise there will be a even more toxic meta where players gets 100 to 0 all the time and then quit.

If defensive passive procs get removed, I can’t wait to hear your complaints about one-shot meta and watch ANet nerf the damage back to the bunker meta. I can’t wait to hear complaints about all builds requiring defensive utilities like warriors is already suffering with stances.

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

E.g. revenant gets bursted, he’s a bad player so he doesn’t react in time to mitigate at least some of the burst. But no worries! Crystal hibernation procs at 25%. After the proc, he is then able to activate another crystal hibernation from shield 5, he then activates glint heal after that if the 2 crystal hibernations didnt heal him enough. If nobody hits him during glint, he then heals with sword 4, followed by sword 3 before glint heal ends. Before sword 3 ends, he switches to shiro and uses shiro dodge while switching to staff. Using staff 3 and 5 after that ensures his absolute survival after that.

And there we have the typical revenant player abusing chain defenses. All of this would not have happened if not for the passive proc.

Btw all those op passive procs are on a low cd like 48s.

He is a bad player but still somehow proceeds to perfectly perform and chain all of what you said. Cracked laughing

Malchior.5732:

Stand The Wall.6987:

I have no problem with passives. They buy more time and are annoying, but ultimately they just a stall for a few more secs. The big problem comes when you combine them with defensive trait lines and amulets. With most of these defensive amulets going out the window, the passives should come back in line. The biggest offenders that promote lots of regen are the biggest offenders that should get a bit of a nerf, but not by much. This is an mmo, not an fps. Fights should last for more then a few seconds. If you disagree maybe youre playing the wrong game.

Just because it’s an MMO, doesn’t mean we need passives for good gameplay that doesn’t end in seconds. The problem, however, is that these passives are just there to protect you from messing up and sometimes even reward you for doing stupid things.
Remember Vamp runes? People used them because it defended you from getting bursted down, regardless of your own skill. You went way too far and got punished accordingly? That’s fine, because even if you’re 1v5, the passives will keep you alive for a bit longer, potentially allowing an escape.

Vamp runes were there because the burst meta was too much. People were getting 100-0 and making the game unfun. It always had the invulnerability ever since launch. If passive procs was a big problem, then vampire runes would’ve been nerfed long long ago.

XxsdgxX.8109:

ReaperJr.5967:

runeblade.7514:

I am going to be the first one to fully completely disagree with this. Most of those traits have a long cooldown.

Passive defensive proc is a second wind. It keeps me from getting ganked from god-knows-where and give me time to realize what is going on. However, because of the long cooldowns, I can’t get another second wind for another gank.

It stops the game from being Gank wars 2: Shoot first to win. With the bunker meta out of the way, passive defensive procs are more necessary otherwise there will be a even more toxic meta where players gets 100 to 0 all the time and then quit.

If defensive passive procs get removed, I can’t wait to hear your complaints about one-shot meta and watch ANet nerf the damage back to the bunker meta. I can’t wait to hear complaints about all builds requiring defensive utilities like warriors is already suffering with stances.

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

E.g. revenant gets bursted, he’s a bad player so he doesn’t react in time to mitigate at least some of the burst. But no worries! Crystal hibernation procs at 25%. After the proc, he is then able to activate another crystal hibernation from shield 5, he then activates glint heal after that if the 2 crystal hibernations didnt heal him enough. If nobody hits him during glint, he then heals with sword 4, followed by sword 3 before glint heal ends. Before sword 3 ends, he switches to shiro and uses shiro dodge while switching to staff. Using staff 3 and 5 after that ensures his absolute survival after that.

And there we have the typical revenant player abusing chain defenses. All of this would not have happened if not for the passive proc.

Btw all those op passive procs are on a low cd like 48s.

He is a bad player but still somehow proceeds to perfectly perform and chain all of what you said. Cracked laughing

This doesn’t require skill whatsoever. I learnt how to abuse this chain on my rev in under 5 hours. It’s a mindless, easy chain that anyone with a shred of intelligence will be able to perform.

My point was that without the passive proc, he would not even have the chance to abuse this chain.

runeblade.7514:

Malchior.5732:

Stand The Wall.6987:

I have no problem with passives. They buy more time and are annoying, but ultimately they just a stall for a few more secs. The big problem comes when you combine them with defensive trait lines and amulets. With most of these defensive amulets going out the window, the passives should come back in line. The biggest offenders that promote lots of regen are the biggest offenders that should get a bit of a nerf, but not by much. This is an mmo, not an fps. Fights should last for more then a few seconds. If you disagree maybe youre playing the wrong game.

Just because it’s an MMO, doesn’t mean we need passives for good gameplay that doesn’t end in seconds. The problem, however, is that these passives are just there to protect you from messing up and sometimes even reward you for doing stupid things.
Remember Vamp runes? People used them because it defended you from getting bursted down, regardless of your own skill. You went way too far and got punished accordingly? That’s fine, because even if you’re 1v5, the passives will keep you alive for a bit longer, potentially allowing an escape.

Vamp runes were there because the burst meta was too much. People were getting 100-0 and making the game unfun. It always had the invulnerability ever since launch. If passive procs was a big problem, then vampire runes would’ve been nerfed long long ago.

Sounds familiar.. celestial anyone?

Passives carry bad players. When I saw the 2 second evade in the acro line I wanted to turn off my computer.

They have to reduce the damage across the board if they do decide to remove them(yeah right, maybe in 2020), as otherwise we will be one or two shotting each other.

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

The difference between using 3 defensive skills in a chain vs. 2 defensive skills + 1 passive proc is huge because…?

runeblade.7514:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

The difference between using 3 defensive skills in a chain vs. 2 defensive skills + 1 passive proc is huge because…?

hey man pressing buttons = skill.

In seriousness when I see people complaining about “skilless passives” or about “bads getting carried by passives” I get the impression that they just lost a fight and are looking a scapegoat that doesn’t involving owning up to the fact they got bested.

runeblade.7514:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

The difference between using 3 defensive skills in a chain vs. 2 defensive skills + 1 passive proc is huge because…?

Because you actually have to react and predict what your opponent is going to do. Not that I condone revenant’s chain defenses but the passives make it worse. Eye for an eye and crystal hibernation are among the worst traits in game in terms of encouraging skill based play.

Crinn.7864:

runeblade.7514:

ReaperJr.5967:

What? Do you know what active defenses are? Those are wholly sufficient to prevent 1 shotting. All passive procs do are to buy time for active defenses which results in chain defenses aka very high survivability by facerolling. Which are what people are complaining about.

The difference between using 3 defensive skills in a chain vs. 2 defensive skills + 1 passive proc is huge because…?

hey man pressing buttons = skill.

In seriousness when I see people complaining about “skilless passives” or about “bads getting carried by passives” I get the impression that they just lost a fight and are looking a scapegoat that doesn’t involving owning up to the fact they got bested.

Hardly. Seeing as you can comment this, I doubt there’s ever been an instance where you completely outplayed an enemy (revenant), and yet were unable to down him because of his passive procs saving him.

Speaking of stereotypes, I get the impression that people defending bad passives are actually getting carried by them themselves and are unwilling to see them gone as they would actually need to l2p then.

Malchior.5732:

Just because it’s an MMO, doesn’t mean we need passives for good gameplay that doesn’t end in seconds. The problem, however, is that these passives are just there to protect you from messing up and sometimes even reward you for doing stupid things.
Remember Vamp runes? People used them because it defended you from getting bursted down, regardless of your own skill. You went way too far and got punished accordingly? That’s fine, because even if you’re 1v5, the passives will keep you alive for a bit longer, potentially allowing an escape.

I think passives like that are there because of massive coordinated burst. A spectator that has no gw2 xp wont be able to follow along when everyone is getting downed 1 after 1. Its not fun for the players either. At least in this bunker meta that isnt true about spectators. With no passives pvp will become like wvw, pirateshipping until one side either grows balls or logs out.
I think we should wait until after the balance patch to see if theyre still broken or not. Most of them arent.

Stand The Wall.6987:

Malchior.5732:

Just because it’s an MMO, doesn’t mean we need passives for good gameplay that doesn’t end in seconds. The problem, however, is that these passives are just there to protect you from messing up and sometimes even reward you for doing stupid things.
Remember Vamp runes? People used them because it defended you from getting bursted down, regardless of your own skill. You went way too far and got punished accordingly? That’s fine, because even if you’re 1v5, the passives will keep you alive for a bit longer, potentially allowing an escape.

I think passives like that are there because of massive coordinated burst. A spectator that has no gw2 xp wont be able to follow along when everyone is getting downed 1 after 1. Its not fun for the players either. At least in this bunker meta that isnt true about spectators. With no passives pvp will become like wvw, pirateshipping until one side either grows balls or logs out.
I think we should wait until after the balance patch to see if theyre still broken or not. Most of them arent.

Yea, not like that at all, where the spectators have basically nothing to talk about because it’s SO BORING.
Also, that’s a really nice assumption there how pvp will become like wvw without passives. How did you even come up with that?
Now, the point isn’t to remove ALL passive effects, but rather the passive “save-your-butt” skills that just activate when you’re in trouble.
They’re way too forgiving for big mistakes.

That doesn’t mean that getting bursted in 2 seconds is alright, but coordinated bursts shouldn’t just fail outright. Instead, the coordinated bursts shouldn’t be so spontaneous. There’s no reason to allow such big bursts from invisible, highly mobile enemies with great escape potential. They should be punished harshly for failing the burst, but shouldn’t be punished because their target just happens to have a ton of passive proc defenses that save them from lack of map awareness.