Guild Wars 2

The thief in the video is condition. The same can be done with the staff. Please Nerf it.

Still gets nuked vs decent opponents xD

I’m sure this will be used all the time in actual sPvP.

I hope you uderstand its hard to take a clicker seriously when talking about balancing issues.

As for the build, it just requires CC lock timing/kiting when 1v1ing or literally ignoring it on teamfights

Krysard.1364:

I hope you uderstand its hard to take a clicker seriously when talking about balancing issues.

As for the build, it just requires CC lock timing/kiting when 1v1ing or literally ignoring it on teamfights

If they take the 12 sec CD block they fixed their cc problem instead of the skill 9 taken in the video skill 8 also breaks cc a passive is active on this thief that breaks cc. CC will not kill this thief. It can literally tank a point longer than a guardian in 1 vs 5. I haven’t even touched on the thieves that abuse this with SA to hold a point then swap to d/p and run to the next point.

Evades aren’t really a big deal on anything other than staff 5. That’s the one skill that does need adjustment.

Zelulose.8695:

Krysard.1364:

I hope you uderstand its hard to take a clicker seriously when talking about balancing issues.

As for the build, it just requires CC lock timing/kiting when 1v1ing or literally ignoring it on teamfights

If they take the 12 sec CD block they fixed their cc problem instead of the skill 9 taken in the video skill 8 also breaks cc a passive is active on this thief that breaks cc. CC will not kill this thief. It can literally tank a point longer than a guardian in 1 vs 5. I haven’t even touched on the thieves that abuse this with SA to hold a point then swap to d/p and run to the next point.

“abuse this with SA to hold a point”

Now we know you have no clue what you are talking about

Zelulose.8695:

Krysard.1364:

I hope you uderstand its hard to take a clicker seriously when talking about balancing issues.

As for the build, it just requires CC lock timing/kiting when 1v1ing or literally ignoring it on teamfights

If they take the 12 sec CD block they fixed their cc problem instead of the skill 9 taken in the video skill 8 also breaks cc a passive is active on this thief that breaks cc. CC will not kill this thief. It can literally tank a point longer than a guardian in 1 vs 5. I haven’t even touched on the thieves that abuse this with SA to hold a point then swap to d/p and run to the next point.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
since when can you hold point while being in stealth xD ?

Cynz.9437:

Zelulose.8695:

Krysard.1364:

I hope you uderstand its hard to take a clicker seriously when talking about balancing issues.

As for the build, it just requires CC lock timing/kiting when 1v1ing or literally ignoring it on teamfights

If they take the 12 sec CD block they fixed their cc problem instead of the skill 9 taken in the video skill 8 also breaks cc a passive is active on this thief that breaks cc. CC will not kill this thief. It can literally tank a point longer than a guardian in 1 vs 5. I haven’t even touched on the thieves that abuse this with SA to hold a point then swap to d/p and run to the next point.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
since when can you hold point while being in stealth xD ?

I know your trolling but I’ll interpret English for you.
1. The thief evades not stealth on point okay? If you understand this….
2. The thief can’t hold the point indefinitely so at low hp escapes the 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 5 Using stealth ? Understand yet?
3. Then the thief decaps another point and contests it as his teams or neutral repeating after a few minutes of 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 5.

This is why you read in context my friend.

Beware the rise of the perma-evade thieves!

Zelulose.8695:

Cynz.9437:

Zelulose.8695:

Krysard.1364:

I hope you uderstand its hard to take a clicker seriously when talking about balancing issues.

As for the build, it just requires CC lock timing/kiting when 1v1ing or literally ignoring it on teamfights

If they take the 12 sec CD block they fixed their cc problem instead of the skill 9 taken in the video skill 8 also breaks cc a passive is active on this thief that breaks cc. CC will not kill this thief. It can literally tank a point longer than a guardian in 1 vs 5. I haven’t even touched on the thieves that abuse this with SA to hold a point then swap to d/p and run to the next point.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
since when can you hold point while being in stealth xD ?

I know your trolling but I’ll interpret English for you.
1. The thief evades not stealth on point okay? If you understand this….
2. The thief can’t hold the point indefinitely so at low hp escapes the 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 5 Using stealth ? Understand yet?
3. Then the thief decaps another point and contests it as his teams or neutral repeating after a few minutes of 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 5.

This is why you read in context my friend.

Read your sentence again, you said explicitly that they abuse SA to hold point.

Anyways, SA is a joke anyway due to revs and scrappers.

Yes the build is obnoxious, but it works only in lower divisions/HJ.

Cynz.9437:

Zelulose.8695:

Cynz.9437:

Zelulose.8695:

Krysard.1364:

I hope you uderstand its hard to take a clicker seriously when talking about balancing issues.

As for the build, it just requires CC lock timing/kiting when 1v1ing or literally ignoring it on teamfights

If they take the 12 sec CD block they fixed their cc problem instead of the skill 9 taken in the video skill 8 also breaks cc a passive is active on this thief that breaks cc. CC will not kill this thief. It can literally tank a point longer than a guardian in 1 vs 5. I haven’t even touched on the thieves that abuse this with SA to hold a point then swap to d/p and run to the next point.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
since when can you hold point while being in stealth xD ?

I know your trolling but I’ll interpret English for you.
1. The thief evades not stealth on point okay? If you understand this….
2. The thief can’t hold the point indefinitely so at low hp escapes the 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 5 Using stealth ? Understand yet?
3. Then the thief decaps another point and contests it as his teams or neutral repeating after a few minutes of 1 vs 3 or 1 vs 5.

This is why you read in context my friend.

Read your sentence again, you said explicitly that they abuse SA to hold point.

Anyways, SA is a joke anyway due to revs and scrappers.

Yes the build is obnoxious, but it works only in lower divisions/HJ.

It depends on the user. Some players can use it to dodge everything because they don’t randomly dodge. With a build like this they can maximize damage or condition damage hitting 10k or dodging to spam conditions.

Both death blossom and vault have frames during the animation where the thief is vulnerable. I’d suggest you get a thief friend to help you practice spotting the frames during which the thief is vulnerable. Once you get the hang of it, it becomes really easy to punish thieves if they use those skills when you have a CC ready.

For example, a thief is 100% helpless when he’s coming down on his vault animation (outside of mugging to interrupt). But it’s up to the thief’s opponent to be good enough to land skills during this animation.

Just like it was up to a DH’s opponents to actively dodge the true shot and traps. Or a mesmer’s opponents to prevent the shield phantasm from spawning.

That build is never gone lost, simply is harder to use than other classes and for that reason only few used it.
The reason is tat it’s really strong, make you barely unkillable in 1vs1 and fear only few builds (and sometimes if the player is good enough don’t fear any build), but to play that build you need to be skilled, to know exactly how to fight any class and what skill evade and when.
The reason that made that build forgotten is that there’s much more easier builds that work better for 3v3-4v4 fights or are just lesser good but much more easier to play.

A good thief don’t fear any class (can ddoge easy any burst, can dodge CC and can dodge and clean conditions really easy), but need to be really a Good player to mastery that build.

I. Just. Can’t. Take. This. Seriously. Please. Stop. Clicking. My. Eyes. Hurt.

Zelulose.8695:

The thief in the video is condition. The same can be done with the staff. Please Nerf it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2GJp1GFfrQ

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

skillCLICKER player @ it’s best ^^

the players incompetence aside, back to ur topic. do not worry, u wont see much thief with a build like that as ppl will get quickly that this build wont work in ranked matches.

Sorry, but what role would that perma evade thief fill?

Maybe it survives for a while on point, but eventually itll just die if kited correctly.. Not to mention in this condi heavy meta most classes taking 1v1s are used to dealing with condis.

Did that thief on the vid try to not hit you on purpose or am I missing a point here?

Double D/D with energy is a one trick pony. Low stacks of poison/torment and 3-5 stacks of bleed hardly have enough condi pressure to push against mesmer/necro/ele/druid/scrapper/warrior, or even guardian and rev who knows how to rotate cleanse and evade/blocks properly. That is pretty much every class. In the end you won’t achieve much other than just evading, not to mention decapping anyone or holding a cap.

Swap a weapon set with shortbow and trickery to deadly art and you can quickly build around 6-11 stacks of buffed poisons on people who wants to stay on node or being lockdown by your impairing dagger and panic strike. Ofc you won’t be evading as much but what are you really trying to achieve with dancing dagger.

ResJudicator.7916:

For example, a thief is 100% helpless when he’s coming down on his vault animation (outside of mugging to interrupt). But it’s up to the thief’s opponent to be good enough to land skills during this animation.

If every class / build had instant / fast, ranged interrupts like mantra of distraction mes / f3 or steal / head shot then yeah it would be up to the opponent, but when classes / builds have interrupts with the same 3/4 of sec cast time as vault the idea of precision interrupting it at the right frames is laughable (and let’s not even talk about waiting for most AI to respond), just one more example of why “skill” in this game is so secondary.

zinkz.7045:

ResJudicator.7916:

For example, a thief is 100% helpless when he’s coming down on his vault animation (outside of mugging to interrupt). But it’s up to the thief’s opponent to be good enough to land skills during this animation.

If every class / build had instant / fast, ranged interrupts like mantra of distraction mes / f3 or steal / head shot then yeah it would be up to the opponent, but when classes / builds have interrupts with the same 3/4 of sec cast time as vault the idea of precision interrupting it at the right frames is laughable (and let’s not even talk about waiting for most AI to respond), just one more example of why “skill” in this game is so secondary.

I would actually second this, and if i may, perma evades thieves and shield thieves are strong duelist. That’s just too much:

- mobility
-decap
- +1
-Now able to win 1 vs 1 with ease??

That looks like a pre S1 revenant to me.

Edit: they have become so strong, that some thieves no longer decap and rather be in team fights lol..

Just yesterday I had a thief 1v1… they were bouncing around me like a kid on sweets. It was ridiculous. I actually ended up just standing there waiting for them to stop, dumped a ton of aoe and waited.

Fivedawgs.4267:

zinkz.7045:

ResJudicator.7916:

For example, a thief is 100% helpless when he’s coming down on his vault animation (outside of mugging to interrupt). But it’s up to the thief’s opponent to be good enough to land skills during this animation.

If every class / build had instant / fast, ranged interrupts like mantra of distraction mes / f3 or steal / head shot then yeah it would be up to the opponent, but when classes / builds have interrupts with the same 3/4 of sec cast time as vault the idea of precision interrupting it at the right frames is laughable (and let’s not even talk about waiting for most AI to respond), just one more example of why “skill” in this game is so secondary.

I would actually second this, and if i may, perma evades thieves and shield thieves are strong duelist. That’s just too much:

- mobility
-decap
- +1
-Now able to win 1 vs 1 with ease??

That looks like a pre S1 revenant to me.

Edit: they have become so strong, that some thieves no longer decap and rather be in team fights lol..

Oh my god I am in tears, if this looks anything like pre S1 rev to you you need a big fat L2P.

And what the hell is a shield thief???

Edit: Then again, I am speaking to the guy that nearly got beat by a Druid with no weapons.

zinkz.7045:

ResJudicator.7916:

For example, a thief is 100% helpless when he’s coming down on his vault animation (outside of mugging to interrupt). But it’s up to the thief’s opponent to be good enough to land skills during this animation.

If every class / build had instant / fast, ranged interrupts like mantra of distraction mes / f3 or steal / head shot then yeah it would be up to the opponent, but when classes / builds have interrupts with the same 3/4 of sec cast time as vault the idea of precision interrupting it at the right frames is laughable (and let’s not even talk about waiting for most AI to respond), just one more example of why “skill” in this game is so secondary.

Most of the meta builds do have access to a good source of punishment.

Revenant – Staff 5 + Legendswap (to trigger staff on-swap sigils). This is instantcast and will almost instagib the thief.

Necro – Plague Signet (aagainst condi D/D evade spam builds). Eat the condis, plague sig back when thief is helpless during latter half of Death Blossom. Then stow weapon so you don’t attack into evasions (which is how the thief cleanses condis).

Warrior – Shieldbash is instant, Mace3 is instant, Zerker mode + Mace burst has like a 1/4s casttime. Longbow blind is instant.

Scrapper – You can just let your gyros take the hits and the thief will die from his own vault due to final salvo.

Thief – Headshot. Mug. Shadowshot.

About the warrior shieldbasgh MAce 3 or burst being instant.. Good luck landing those on perma evade thief..

Couples things.

1.) The thief in the video is YOU.

2.) The video is easily 4-5 months old b/c that guild, Raid, was disbanded then. And another proof? Where’s your lead attack buff? Hmm?

3.) Why are you clicking skills? That explains a lot.

4.) It’s a one trick pony build that gets kitten on by players who bring condi clears and just patiently waits for you to spam all your dodges, then 100-0’s you. The only thing that build beats is people who don’t bring condi clears or bad players in general.

Bandits Defense is the real issue preventing thief from being killed quickly in SA or Evade spam builds. Its CD should be tripled or the block respond like mesmer sword or scepter blocks.

Actually encountered one in a game last night. He was doing his thing at mid on skyhammer. At one point I had 23 stacks of bleeds on me (under resistance XD). My team kept going down so he must have been doing something amidst the chaos. So I’d just focus him in between his evades.

The whole thing was super silly :D

The issue isn’t that it cant be killed by good players. The problem is that it can be played by the masses to kill the masses. Imagine facing 5 of them. The conditions would be max stacked and good luck keeping track of that many perma evades.

My video clearly showed that I was using no skill and hand clicking skills. I’m sure that thief was trying much harder than I was and used more practiced skill. The point is he still lost to the no skill build. This will frustrate players entering pvp.

Zelulose.8695:

The issue isn’t that it cant be killed by good players. The problem is that it can be played by the masses to kill the masses. Imagine facing 5 of them. The conditions would be max stacked and good luck keeping track of that many perma evades.

My video clearly showed that I was using no skill and hand clicking skills. I’m sure that thief was trying much harder than I was and used more practiced skill. The point is he still lost to the no skill build. This will frustrate players entering pvp.

You’re not wrong as history has already shown us this much XD

Would love to have a 5 thief match-up. As a thief main. You do realize that a single CC would be enough to implode your dodging puppet right? It takes one steal and a focus fire to implode you in a teamfight, especially if I have revenant or chrono on my side. And if you can’t win your teamfights you hardly have a chance to win the game. You don’t kill fast enough to warrant outrotating the enemy.

Zelulose.8695:

The issue isn’t that it cant be killed by good players. The problem is that it can be played by the masses to kill the masses. Imagine facing 5 of them. The conditions would be max stacked and good luck keeping track of that many perma evades.

My video clearly showed that I was using no skill and hand clicking skills. I’m sure that thief was trying much harder than I was and used more practiced skill. The point is he still lost to the no skill build. This will frustrate players entering pvp.

The thief in the video dueling you is me. This video of you trying to show the “effectiveness” of the build is kind of useless because it is in fact only useful to troll conquest.

Why are our previous duels not shown on the recording?
After I said, “let me test something,” in the chat box, I swapped to beserker ammy and critical strikes line(no swiftness after dodge, no poison application from steal, and no condi wipe after coming out of stealth).
This clip only shows cs trick dd power thief vs acro trick dd condi thief which heavily favors the latter because of the limited dodge and condition clears that critical strikes line has.

A good clip showing the effectiveness of this build should of been against a da or acro line because those are much superior dueling specs that the thief can offer. Its actually pretty easy to outplay this condition acro build and eventually beat it using the power acro or da thief with well timed bursts and condi cleanse management, the only cost is the time because there are just a lot of dodges.

With that said, this will only beat builds that doesnt have a combination of condi clear and sustain. You have no real pressure unless you burn your defensive mechanic(ini and energy) which you need to conserve wisely in tpvp against threats like revenant burst, juking the enemy thief’s steal, ranger pet burst, dodging shatters, etc.

In fact in team fights, this build is completely useless because the enemy’s support can just clear and patch up something that you will beat (power revs) otherwise in duels only.

Sizer back confirmed?

Ross Biddle.2367:

Actually encountered one in a game last night. He was doing his thing at mid on skyhammer. At one point I had 23 stacks of bleeds on me (under resistance XD). My team kept going down so he must have been doing something amidst the chaos. So I’d just focus him in between his evades.

The whole thing was super silly

Realistically you can only achieve up to that if you spec your build to prolong bleed duration (runes and possibly amulet), drop a caltrop (unblockable) and spam death blossom on poor souls who must stay on that small node for some reason. Or on a downed player so you get to bite on anyone who wants to res him.

But to be honest though, if they actually slot caltrop in then he dropped some other vital utility for cleanse/stun break/endurance or impairing dagger for locking opponent. Such strategy will be quite silly when opponent brings a decent healbot ele.

When it comes to diversity, thieves are serously diverse ( probably in the same boat as warrior), :

Venom share thieves
Shield thieves (utility skill)
Illusion thieves (Guild initiative)
Perma evades thieves

Which is good, however, I feel like anet is trying to jack of all trade them. When rev came out, people complained about it because it was versatile:

You could go condi and do it better than some condi class
Good mobility
Best dps
Good survavility

I feel like thief is one buff away from being OP.

Fivedawgs.4267:

When it comes to diversity, thieves are serously diverse ( probably in the same boat as warrior), :

Venom share thieves
Shield thieves
Illusion thieves
Perma evades thieves

Which is good, however, I feel like anet is trying to jack of all trade them. When rev came out, people complained about it because it was versatile:

You could go condi and do it better than some condi class
Good mobility
Best dps
Good survavility

I feel like thief is one buff away from being OP.

posts like this are the reason none will ever take you any serious….

Well any specific?? What do you disagree with?

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well any specific?? What do you disagree with?

1) Venom share thieves aren’t considered viable.

2) Shield thief simply doesn’t exist because thieves can’t hold shields. I’m assuming you mean a thief that uses the Bandit’s defense utility. But, that’s a daredevil utility, not a build.

3) There is no such thing as an illusion thief. I’m going to assume you mean thieves that take the Thieves guild elite. It’s a horrible elite and with a 180s cooldown, it is not even close to build-defining.

4) Just a heads up: perma evade thief isn’t necessarily just one build—any of the 3 “builds” you listed above can classify as one as long as they are a daredevil using signet of agility.

Salamander.2504:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well any specific?? What do you disagree with?

1) Venom share thieves aren’t considered viable.

2) Shield thief simply doesn’t exist because thieves can’t hold shields. I’m assuming you mean a thief that uses the Bandit’s defense utility. But, that’s a daredevil utility, not a build.

3) There is no such thing as an illusion thief. I’m going to assume you mean thieves that take the Thieves guild elite. It’s a horrible elite and with a 180s cooldown, it is not even close to build-defining.

4) Just a heads up: perma evade thief isn’t necessarily just one build—any of the 3 “builds” you listed above can classify as one as long as they are a daredevil using signet of agility.

1- They are viable against some camps, just like I warrior can switch to condi or whatever to take down a necro.. Venom share, from what I have observed, work quite nicely against DH.

2-So, you admit that they exist? But want to argue over technalities?? OK .. even shin called them and I quote " I am not used to go against thieves with shield"

3- just like number 2, you deny the claim then go on to say that they exist and claim that it’s not viable…

4-ok, so switching a trait or an elite /utility skills no longer qualify something as a Build?

What are you disagreeing with exactly? I have faced any of the above in ranked, they might not look viable to you but may work with someone else. Just like warriors have 4 or 3 different build.. with one being stronger than the other… if you want to argue over technalities then heads up to you. But you have disproved nothing…

Gs/ sw shield isn’t consider viable either but I reck people with it..

Zelulose.8695:

This video shows how I used bandits defense to survive a while match without dying even if outnumbered. And again I didn’t have to do much trying more than role. (Similar can be done with damage specs using staff)

Also note how many rage quit the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZf2jdwRCe0

Pretty much, what I am going up against but most thief switch to “the utility” that give them a shield when they face warrior, which make it even hard to do down… but I appreciate the challenge since one heat utt is all it take to bring them down (if they don’t activate their shield utility)

This video shows how I used bandits defense to survive a while match without dying even if outnumbered. And again I didn’t have to do much trying more than role. (Similar can be done with damage specs using staff)

Also note how many rage quit the match.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Salamander.2504:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well any specific?? What do you disagree with?

1) Venom share thieves aren’t considered viable.

2) Shield thief simply doesn’t exist because thieves can’t hold shields. I’m assuming you mean a thief that uses the Bandit’s defense utility. But, that’s a daredevil utility, not a build.

3) There is no such thing as an illusion thief. I’m going to assume you mean thieves that take the Thieves guild elite. It’s a horrible elite and with a 180s cooldown, it is not even close to build-defining.

4) Just a heads up: perma evade thief isn’t necessarily just one build—any of the 3 “builds” you listed above can classify as one as long as they are a daredevil using signet of agility.

1- They are viable against some camps, just like I warrior can switch to condi or whatever to take down a necro.. Venom share, from what I have observed, work quite nicely against DH.

2-So, you admit that they exist? But want to argue over technalities?? OK .. even shin called them and I quote " I am not used to go against thieves with shield"

3- just like number 2, you deny the claim then go on to say that they exist and claim that it’s not viable…

4-ok, so switching a trait or an elite /utility skills no longer qualify something as a Build?

What are you disagreeing with exactly? I have faced any of the above in ranked, they might not look viable to you but may work with someone else. Just like warriors have 4 or 3 different build.. with one being stronger than the other… if you want to argue over technalities then heads up to you. But you have disproved nothing…

Gs/ sw shield isn’t consider viable either but I reck people with it..

And almost lost to a Druid with no weapons, opinion dismissed

Zelulose.8695:

This video shows how I used bandits defense to survive a while match without dying even if outnumbered. And again I didn’t have to do much trying more than role. (Similar can be done with damage specs using staff)

Also note how many rage quit the match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZf2jdwRCe0

Oh man, you brought in a hot join video, I guess your point is proven congratz

Fivedawgs.4267:

Salamander.2504:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Well any specific?? What do you disagree with?

1) Venom share thieves aren’t considered viable.

2) Shield thief simply doesn’t exist because thieves can’t hold shields. I’m assuming you mean a thief that uses the Bandit’s defense utility. But, that’s a daredevil utility, not a build.

3) There is no such thing as an illusion thief. I’m going to assume you mean thieves that take the Thieves guild elite. It’s a horrible elite and with a 180s cooldown, it is not even close to build-defining.

4) Just a heads up: perma evade thief isn’t necessarily just one build—any of the 3 “builds” you listed above can classify as one as long as they are a daredevil using signet of agility.

1- They are viable against some camps, just like I warrior can switch to condi or whatever to take down a necro.. Venom share, from what I have observed, work quite nicely against DH.

2-So, you admit that they exist? But want to argue over technalities?? OK .. even shin called them and I quote " I am not used to go against thieves with shield"

3- just like number 2, you deny the claim then go on to say that they exist and claim that it’s not viable…

4-ok, so switching a trait or an elite /utility skills no longer qualify something as a Build?

What are you disagreeing with exactly? I have faced any of the above in ranked, they might not look viable to you but may work with someone else. Just like warriors have 4 or 3 different build.. with one being stronger than the other… if you want to argue over technalities then heads up to you. But you have disproved nothing…

Gs/ sw shield isn’t consider viable either but I reck people with it..

Fivedawgs, you asked a forum poster above if he could explain why he disagreed with you. I then helpfully responded why he probably disagreed with you. That’s all.

Fivedawgs.4267:

2-So, you admit that they exist? But want to argue over technalities?? OK .. even shin called them and I quote " I am not used to go against thieves with shield"

3- just like number 2, you deny the claim then go on to say that they exist and claim that it’s not viable…

No, there is no such thing as a shield thief or an illusion thief. Period. He tried to clarify what in the world you were referring to, since they do not exist.

Do you call a minion master an illusion necro? No, that makes no sense. Calling thieves who use Thieves Guild “illusion thieves” is similarly silly. Thieves Guild gives you two allies that deal very low damage and last 30s on a 180s cooldown. How do you make an “illusion thief” (implying those allies are the primary focus of the build) out of that? Similarly, how do you make a “shield thief” with one single block skill? It’s a great skill, but no thief builds revolve around blocking (or “shielding” if you insist on using the word shield) because we simply don’t have any other blocks!

Zodryn.4216:

Fivedawgs.4267:

2-So, you admit that they exist? But want to argue over technalities?? OK .. even shin called them and I quote " I am not used to go against thieves with shield"

3- just like number 2, you deny the claim then go on to say that they exist and claim that it’s not viable…

No, there is no such thing as a shield thief or an illusion thief. Period. He tried to clarify what in the world you were referring to, since they do not exist.

Do you call a minion master an illusion necro? No, that makes no sense. Calling thieves who use Thieves Guild “illusion thieves” is similarly silly. Thieves Guild gives you two allies that deal very low damage and last 30s on a 180s cooldown. How do you make an “illusion thief” (implying those allies are the primary focus of the build) out of that? Similarly, how do you make a “shield thief” with one single block skill? It’s a great skill, but no thief builds revolve around blocking (or “shielding” if you insist on using the word shield) because we simply don’t have any other blocks!

Dont bring your asinine logic here, Do the minions look like the necro to you? Or am i missing something? I dont main thief and i have never touched them so what was i supposed to call them, eisntein?? He is arguing over TECHNALITIES… Which he has the right to do but don’t bring in senseless analogy… And please stay out of convoy since you have no idea of what you are talking about.I go ask ostrich eggs or any folks who main thief why they use it when they face warriors… As far as the 180s elite, why don’t ask those thive why they use it…. it’s like asking me why someone would use rampage or signet of Rage over headbutt, dude its their choice if it’s work for them. Why not?

Edit: while you are at it, why don’t you go watch caed stream and see what happens whenever he forget to take his shield utility when up against me or any power warrior.
I
So @salamander, exactly, you are disgreeing over technalities even though you knew what I meant… So, my argument about build diversity is still valid.

Salamander.2504:

Fivedawgs, you asked a forum poster above if he could explain why he disagreed with you. I then helpfully responded why he probably disagreed with you. That’s all.

Ye thank you, appreciated. His post was so wrong and laughable at the same time, I just couldn’t answer anything to him at this time.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Are you kitten ing stupid or what?? Do the minions look like the necro?? Are you missing brain cells or what??

Hard words for somebody who is talking about ‘illusion thiefs’ , ’ shield thiefs’ and who considers venom share thief viable.

So, my argument about build diversity is still valid.

Ye it is. The build diversity for thief is nearly the best in game with the well known illusion thief, perma evade thief, shield thief and venom share thief.
I think you forgot the trap thief and the perma stealth thief, tho.

Make thief great again, vote Fivedawgs

Fivedawgs.4267:

Zodryn.4216:

Fivedawgs.4267:

2-So, you admit that they exist? But want to argue over technalities?? OK .. even shin called them and I quote " I am not used to go against thieves with shield"

3- just like number 2, you deny the claim then go on to say that they exist and claim that it’s not viable…

No, there is no such thing as a shield thief or an illusion thief. Period. He tried to clarify what in the world you were referring to, since they do not exist.

Do you call a minion master an illusion necro? No, that makes no sense. Calling thieves who use Thieves Guild “illusion thieves” is similarly silly. Thieves Guild gives you two allies that deal very low damage and last 30s on a 180s cooldown. How do you make an “illusion thief” (implying those allies are the primary focus of the build) out of that? Similarly, how do you make a “shield thief” with one single block skill? It’s a great skill, but no thief builds revolve around blocking (or “shielding” if you insist on using the word shield) because we simply don’t have any other blocks!

Dont bring your asinine logic here, Do the minions look like the necro to you? Or am i missing something? I dont main thief and i have never touched them so what was i supposed to call them, eisntein?? He is arguing over TECHNALITIES… Which he has the right to do but don’t bring in senseless analogy… And please stay out of convoy since you have no idea of what you are talking about.I go ask ostrich eggs or any folks who main thief why they use it when they face warriors… As far as the 180s elite, why don’t ask those thive why they use it…. it’s like asking me why someone would use rampage or signet of Rage over headbutt, dude its their choice if it’s work for them. Why not?

Edit: while you are at it, why don’t you go watch caed stream and see what happens whenever he forget to take his shield utility when up against me or any power warrior.
I
So @salamander, exactly, you are disgreeing over technalities even though you knew what I meant… So, my argument about build diversity is still valid.

I don’t even…

/Facepalm

I really did try.

dominik.9721:

Salamander.2504:

Fivedawgs, you asked a forum poster above if he could explain why he disagreed with you. I then helpfully responded why he probably disagreed with you. That’s all.

Ye thank you, appreciated. His post was so wrong and laughable at the same time, I just couldn’t answer anything to him at this time.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Are you kitten ing stupid or what?? Do the minions look like the necro?? Are you missing brain cells or what??

Hard words for somebody who is talking about ‘illusion thiefs’ , ’ shield thiefs’ and who considers venom share thief viable.

So, my argument about build diversity is still valid.

Ye it is. The build diversity for thief is nearly the best in game with the well known illusion thief, perma evade thief, shield thief and venom share thief.
I think you forgot the trap thief and the perma stealth thief, tho.

Make thief great again, vote Fivedawgs

Lol, you are having a field day over technalities, which is sad. Yet you can’t a dress the issue at hand. In a coordinated team, Venom share is viable, shield utility thief work great against warrior, i have seen illusion or guild initiative thief twice in ranked and once in unrank… so is there anything besides technalities that you disagree with?

Needless to say, I have never said that thieves were the most diverse class, but that had a few build they could rely on… but jump around the topic

First of all, this is an old build and it is not even the optimal version of it. Lovingly named the “Herpes Thief”, the build has been viable and quite popular since the release of HoT. The only reason it faded a bit was because people stopped playing thief for a while since other professions are even easier to win with.

The proper way to play the build is to actually pair it with fields since the dodge (impaling lotus) and deathblossom are both whirl finishers. It plays very well in coordinated team games where you can actually utilize both your own poison fields and those of your allies (e.g. necro) or fire fields from allies (warrior, ele, engi) to spread condis to the entire enemy team. It also allows thief to sustain in team fights and use Impact strike + steal to instantly stomp targets, even those that get teleported away by Search and Rescue.

The build has several weaknesses, including hard CC, immob spam, sustained condi cleanse (tempest/druid). Dragon hunter/guardian can be a hard counter to this build due to the barrier walls that cannot be dodged/teleported through without triggering knockdowns. Good timing can also allow anyone to get heavy hitting attacks in between the dodges/DBs since they only have a few invulnerable frames. Weakness is a good counter to this build since it reduces endurance regeneration and breaks-up the rhythm/rotation. The build is also especially bad at dealing with long-range pressure due to having limited teleports.

The build was actually a lot stronger before the nerf to Sigil of Energy.

The build can be played as a pure condi build with evade spam, or a hybrid condi + backstab build where you layer condis to do damage in-between your cloak and daggers + backstabs. Different amulets are used depending on the goal.

The build is definitely easy to do well with at low-level play, even if you click pvp skills (kind of like condi chrono or the old turret engi). However, it isn’t any more “OP” than any of the face roll builds that we’re seeing or those we have seen so far. For example, the “Ragezerker” warrior build (which was around for a few patches but got buffed this patch) can melt a low-level player or someone who’s unprepared in under 5 seconds with the click of a few skills. But, anyone who’s prepared will simply kite the warrior until the stances run out then nuke them to death.