Guild Wars 2

And here we have another classic display of Anet’s attempt at “balance”.

People aren’t even mentioning that this will make necros out of control as fear is being patched to be an interrupt! Now necros will be able to reliably condi-bomb you with EVERY SINGLE CONDI IN THE GAME!! Perplexity engies already own roaming and there is no way to out-play them unless they are terrible.

I now understand why you said that 30-water ele was really strong in your internal testing – you buffed condi to be the only viable builds so that maximum condi-clear has a place. This is just a shame…

Wow… what the hell are they smoking?? I can only rationally conclude they legitimately want to remove pvp by making continuous poor decisions for the health of pvp, or that they are completely clueless.

This only will buff (considerably buff, massively buff) condi specs, and crap all over those classes that rely on lots of skills to survive.. like, oh, say an ele? Do they even think this stuff through, or is there some suit that doesn’t play the game just looking at stats and saying, “hey, use all runes in pvp, why waste developments.”

This patch…. another nail in the coffin.

If the forums really are filled with the small minority of elite players, listen to the 3 pages (soon to be how many?) of people saying this is a bad idea.

AAAHAHA can’t wait to see all pvers/wvw players with autoattack on kill them self. All i need is a mace warrior hit once and watch them melt!

Fluffball.8307:

If the forums really are filled with the small minority of elite players, list to the 3 pages (soon to be how many?) of people saying this is a bad idea.

Anyone that posts to the forums by default is automatically a “forum-goer” and therefore a minority. And we all know what to do with minorities! Kick ’em to the curb and tell them they cannot share our water fountains. Therefore, even if there are 3 pages worth of pure whining and complaints by this over-entitled minority population, it does not matter, because the silent majority have spoken. And they love the changes. All of them.

Also – welcome perplexity! Hell – bring the un-nerfed version, let’s make sure no one plays spvp anymore even faster.

1) you nerfed a too strong rune by 30%

2) you SHOULD have nerfed it by 200%

200% > 30%

In my country, this is 11year old math. Dont be offended, you still have 24-days to learn 3rd grade calculus , correct the values and everything will be ok.

yeah this is bad idea get a broken rune and put it in pvp a lot of players will be raging!

Ok, constructive mode launched.

1) Which runeset did you compare it to? there is nothing close to the OP-ness of perplexity….Nightmare 6x bonus = 1s fear on 90s ICD and IT IS STRONG , perplexity is just bull

2) Why does this runes get 2x bonuses, each stronger than any other 6th ?

3) Remove the interupt and make is just a random on hit, basicaly nightmare set, but with confusion

4) OR, nerf all number down by another 100-200%….. Consider the 30% condi duration + duration of this set

If its just 1stack its already another cover condition, but the stacks are so stronk, its basicaly a stun

5) It is NOT opening new builds. IT IS the build. Why not make 9th class, “the Perplexitor” then?

I for one welcome Perplexity to PvP, what a great build to counter spam-based builds

Oh yes <3

Eat it spammerz

too much.

decap engi going to party.
or mesmer with interruption mantra.
hambow warrior….
d/f #4

shutting you down perma, doing nothng.

really no.

I gonna predict it now dire set perplexity rune thief new GM trait Trickery: Bewildering Ambush – Stealing applies 5 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds will be OP

You’ve got to be kidding…

Honestly i wasn’t even planning in comming back anyway, but deep inside I wanted this game to succeed… this is honestly the last nail in the coffin.

Its not the fact that it brings “new builds”, its just a boring playstyle, boring to fight with and against…

Basically e-v-e-r-y-s-i-n-g-l-e person is saying its a bad idea, and they’ll most likelly push it down throats… and then they come ahead and say “we listen to player feedback”… they just forgot to add “and we completely ignore just because.”

How about removing all the confusion proc parts, and leave the rest (confusion duration) for the mesmers?

Most of the problems with perplexity is based on the “apply confusion on hit/interrupt”… so any profession can benefit from it without investing anything… thief.. necro..? RIP good game…

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I wanted to come in here and clear a few things up. We wanted to add this runeset because it will open up a lot of builds increasing build diversity.

Yeah, just like how boosting thieves’ initiative, constantly refusing to buff certain weapon sets (thief’s P/X and necro’s D/X come to mind), only patching every 4 months, whack-a-mole balance, your over-nerfing of some ele skills, and your constant over-buffing of some skills and abilities (like PW, HealSig, Dhuumfire, etc) followed by either over-nerfing or hardly nerfing at all have boosted build diversity.

And then there’s the useless community, telling ANet how its changes will only reduce build diversity, even though it’s ridiculous that something like buffing initiative would reduce build diversity by reducing the need for initiative-focused builds, and throwing out useless comments like “Warriors are heavily increasing the opportunity cost of using, for instance, Soldier’s amulet on a thief or a Mesmer”. No, those couldn’t possibly be true. I mean, just look at the huge number of builds in the meta today!

Aren’t interrupt skills already rewarding enough with a kittenload of confusion stacks? Reconsider adding these runes.

The dev team did a great job getting in the decap and pw thief nerfs, now don’t ruin it by letting this rune in in its current state!

Why do they keep buffing conditions again… and again… and again… and again???? Why?! WHY?! You’re giving more condis to Mesmers and Thieves, you’re even buffing condi Engies, condi Warriors (which vastly offsets the Impale nerf by far), even condi Rangers are going to be using this rune set, hell you’re trying to get condi Guardians up there too (lol!), and Necro Fear interrupts now!
Not only that, but Eles will have a really strong anti-direct damage tool. But hey! condi Eles could really become a thing now! (lol again).

Conditions:
- Are TOO strong, condition necros and even certain engis and warriors can already burst you down as fast (or even faster) as any berserker user.
- Require less stat investment to achieve high to full damage potential.
- Therefore, condi users can invest in other more tanky stats ending up being tanky damage dealers (certain amulets in this case).
- Are too spammable.
- Offer less counter-play.
- Are more passive.
-Therefore, offer a high reward with little sacrifice. Just apply and kite, you’re very tanky anyways.
- Require heavy use of the UI (they have always stated they want to deviate from that).

The term ‘Affliction’ does not exist in this game. Too many damaging conditions easily available everywhere (just like evades and dodges in general are). The term ‘condition bombing’ or ‘condition burst’ exists becouse that one necro or engy just unleashes all those CDs in a mindless rotation with out any criteria behind, just condition overload.

This rune set just worsens all of that and I don’t even need to wait to see the whole picture. As with previous patches, it’s pretty clear what’s going to happen.

Whit.2385:

Fluffball.8307:

If the forums really are filled with the small minority of elite players, list to the 3 pages (soon to be how many?) of people saying this is a bad idea.

Anyone that posts to the forums by default is automatically a “forum-goer” and therefore a minority. And we all know what to do with minorities! Kick ’em to the curb and tell them they cannot share our water fountains. Therefore, even if there are 3 pages worth of pure whining and complaints by this over-entitled minority population, it does not matter, because the silent majority have spoken. And they love the changes. All of them.

There was a typo in my post that made both my post and yours really confusing. Anet has said that these forums are heavily skewed towards “elite” players and I was saying “if this really is true, please listen to the almost unanimous chorus saying ’don’t do this!’”

wow anet with the changes to sigils how the hell did you come to the conclusion that perp would be a good idea, the new sigils were already expected to make the condi meta stronger and you want to throw perplexity into that………..who ever said this was a good idea you need to fire seriously i cannot grasp how bad of an idea this is

zaced.7948:

this is possibly the worst idea ever. the only thing worse would be dire stats in pvp.

plz dont give anet this idea

Anet, if your going to destroy pvp with perplexity runes, dont go half measure. You need to go full measure and give us dire amulet as well. That way I can give up pvp for good.

@Roy,

Even with the adjustments, this rune set is not a good idea for PvP. Please remove it.

Why does Confusion proc on skill use, rather than on hit?
Retaliation, its counterpart, procs every time the buffed player gets hit, not every time someone aiming a skill at them casts their skill.

Confusion should only work on attacks that land, rather than skill use - this will make dodges or invulnerability on confusion-based builds much less useful, and stop players from hiding in stealth or using other immunities while their foes are affected by the condition.

ukuni.8745:

wow anet with the changes to sigils how the hell did you come to the conclusion that perp would be a good idea, the new sigils were already expected to make the condi meta stronger and you want to throw perplexity into that………..who ever said this was a good idea you need to fire seriously i cannot grasp how bad of an idea this is

Considering how long that dev response was, it seems obvious who thought “this was a good idea”. I’m starting to wonder how many other “good ideas” have come from him- in particular, adding more conditions as well as more passive play (proc on getting hit, for example)…

Flumek.9043:

1) you nerfed a too strong rune by 30%

2) you SHOULD have nerfed it by 200%

200% > 30%

In my country, this is 11year old math. Dont be offended, you still have 24-days to learn 3rd grade calculus , correct the values and everything will be ok.

So, Rune of Perplexity should heal enemies whenever they attack?

jportell.2197:

Dirame.8521:

jportell.2197:

Dirame.8521:

Fraelin.7409:

As it still stacks with warrior interrupt it is still completely broken, I understand that you have nerfed the rune, but in order to make the rune ok for use in PvP, it CANT apply more than 3 stacks of confusion and it MUST NOT stack with mace interrupt trait on warrior.

3 Stacks of confusion along with the proc is still 6 stacks which is still a lot of confusion damage, why should it be 8??

If this goes live it will insanely broken. The builds that open up from this is great! but the side effects will just be too much. Clearly from the amount of people asking not to have this in PvP you can see the community’s view on this topic

PS: Honestly I don’t think you have tested mace interrupt build on warrior with that rune, if you have you would never let it live.

Wow you really don’t want it to become a build.

Well my opinion is that with classes who have fast application of condis, this rune will be powerful. So for Necros, Engies and Mesmers, their condi builds are going to be hilariously painful to deal with this rune set.

With classes whose main focus isn’t condis though (this includes warriors) it’s an easy cleanse unless you’re being 2v1ed.

LOL have you seen how fast warriors can stack up conditions? The bleed stacks alone can take someone out super fast.

Yea, and it’s one at a time. If they do it all at once, it’s by perfect timing and that perfect timing is dependent on how much a player sucks.

Immob/bleeding in one skill (thank god its getting nerfed). Not to mention that the meta warrior tPvP takes distracting strikes… if you add in perplexity they will be stacking confusion better than mesmers (which is sad considering that mesmers “condition” is confusion…) Seriously people defending warriors just baffle 90% of the people with common sense.

I’ve played the build, it’s slow as heck and anyone worth their movement speed will beat it. Put yourself in the wrong place and you’re dead yes, but for the life of me, that build is slow as watching a stove.

JonathanSharp.7094:

I probably shouldn’t be reading the forums at 10:45 on a Friday night….but I am.

1) Thanks for talking about this in such a constructive manner. A lot of you guys are bringing up great points with highly cogent logic. I like. I like how you’re bringing up possible issues in multiple game types as well, kudos for espousing a holistic point of view.

2) There are going to be a lot of changes, as we’ve stated before on the 15th. The meta will probably shift a lot for many areas of the game, so we’ll have to see how things shake out.

3) Please keep the talking open, rational, and with as little salt as possible – you guys are rocking. We are listening, and I’ll check this thread next week to see how the conversation goes.

Thanks for keeping it civil.

/Chapout

will you be prepared to remove it on a moments notice if the majority want it removed its pritty clear we don’t want it now and with the meta getting a good shake it might not be that bad but if it doesn’t pan out the way you would like it to will anet be prepared to remove it quickly or will it be some balance patch 6-9 months later?

Perplexity runes should buff confusion specs, it shouldn’t turn you into a confusion spec.

Make it like the torment rune and increase the +%confusion duration and remove the confusion procs.

Wait a second….. early April fools joke?

JonathanSharp.7094:

I probably shouldn’t be reading the forums at 10:45 on a Friday night….but I am.

1) Thanks for talking about this in such a constructive manner. A lot of you guys are bringing up great points with highly cogent logic. I like. I like how you’re bringing up possible issues in multiple game types as well, kudos for espousing a holistic point of view.

2) There are going to be a lot of changes, as we’ve stated before on the 15th. The meta will probably shift a lot for many areas of the game, so we’ll have to see how things shake out.

3) Please keep the talking open, rational, and with as little salt as possible – you guys are rocking. We are listening, and I’ll check this thread next week to see how the conversation goes.

Thanks for keeping it civil.

/Chapout

I will throw my hat into the ring as well. I think these runes are a terrible idea in WvW already, and when they were “fixed” I don’t think they were fixed nearly enough.

I appreciate the steps being taken to balance them, as it shows they’re on your radar, but I don’t believe it’s enough. The biggest problem is the interrupt. Being able to spike 5 stacks of confusion through an already very powerful PvP mechanic is too much. Interrupts are already very powerful, taking away your opponents skill they were trying to use and in some cases already proccing additional effects (Warriors, Mesmers, Engineers can get quickness with it now). Adding 5 stacks of confusion to that I feel is way over the top. Even 3 stacks would be a lot in addition to the pain interrupts already cause.

Thanks for reading and allowing the conversation to continue. Unfortunately if all the Hambow Warriors start running runes of perplexity I can’t imagine sPvP really being fun at all. Luckily a lot of Hambows don’t know what they’re doing, but it’s already really rough facing one with even cursory knowledge of how to play.

I think people are so afraid of perplexity cause of how long it remained unfoxed in WvW, if Anet sould just do a small hotfix if its really OP after like 3 days since patch everything should be alright, at the same time Anet can prove that they’re aware of the fact that their current balance system of towning op builds down after half a year because they want to “let the meta settle” is a complete failure.

It’s not like the current meta is worth keeping anyway.

Bring on the changes.

ukuni.8745:

JonathanSharp.7094:

I probably shouldn’t be reading the forums at 10:45 on a Friday night….but I am.

1) Thanks for talking about this in such a constructive manner. A lot of you guys are bringing up great points with highly cogent logic. I like. I like how you’re bringing up possible issues in multiple game types as well, kudos for espousing a holistic point of view.

2) There are going to be a lot of changes, as we’ve stated before on the 15th. The meta will probably shift a lot for many areas of the game, so we’ll have to see how things shake out.

3) Please keep the talking open, rational, and with as little salt as possible – you guys are rocking. We are listening, and I’ll check this thread next week to see how the conversation goes.

Thanks for keeping it civil.

/Chapout

will you be prepared to remove it on a moments notice if the majority want it removed its pritty clear we don’t want it now and with the meta getting a good shake it might not be that bad but if it doesn’t pan out the way you would like it to will anet be prepared to remove it quickly or will it be some balance patch 6-9 months later?

^ This.

A-net needs to make real changes when it matters… Not just be like: “ooo well we added this completely unrelated trait which could make the problem 5% less suck in an unlikely situation that makes the user weaker in every other situation.” <- Only creates problems, and stagnation. It’s just creating the old problems with new faces… which isn’t evolving the game in anyway.

Honestly never though I’d see this rune in spvp after what it did to WvW.

Do we even know how the perplexity runes will look like AFTER the patch? Remember all runes are getting reworked. Perplexity might get a crazy nerf.

The new version was posted in this thread, no one wants the new or old version in spvp or even wvw.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

I wanted to come in here and clear a few things up. We wanted to add this runeset because it will open up a lot of builds increasing build diversity. Keep in mind we will be adding more options over time to PvP, which currently are not available. We know perplexity is a touchy subject but it has been substantially nerfed. I’ll run through the changes with you guys so you can better understand what is different.

Currently Live: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +28 Condition Damage
(2) 15% Confusion Duration
(3) +55 Condition Damage
(4) 20% chance to cause 3 stacks of confusions for 5s on hit. 15 ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +15% Confusion duration; Causes 5 stacks of confusion for 10 seconds on interrupt. 8s ICD

New Version: Superior Rune of Perplexity
(1) +25 Condition Damage
(2) 10% Confusion Duration
(3) +50 Condition Damage
(4)) 25% chance when struck to inflict 3 stacks of confusion for 5 seconds. 25s ICD
(5) +100 Condition Damage
(6) +20% confusion duration; when you interrupt a foe, cause 5 stacks of confusion for 8 seconds. 15s ICD.

Now here are the changes bonus by bonus
(1) -3 Condition Damage
(2) -5% Confusion Duration
(3) -5 Condition Damage
(4) +5% trigger chance, +10s ICD, changed the trigger from on hit to when you are struck
(5) no change
(6) +5% Confusion Duration, -2s confusion duration, +7s ICD

Granted a few of these changes were done for consistency to align with the entire rune balance pass such as pushing larger boosts towards the later bonuses, but the 4-piece and the 6-piece bonuses are the main areas to look at.

The 4-piece bonus which is changing from an offensive on hit trigger to a when struck trigger will make it much less offensive and controllable in many situations, especially larger team fights. This means it will be harder to ‘spike’ all of the confusion on one target. The ICD of the 4-piece also had 10 seconds added to it which is about a 66% increase in ICD.

The 6-piece bonus is going to have it’s confusion duration decreased by 20%. It also had around a 90% increase in ICD for the trigger as well.

While we do think this runeset is still good, we feel it is in a much better spot after a lot of internal playtesting and when comparing what other sets will now offer.There is a lot that is changing in this build and a lot of different pieces that intertwine together. I want to reiterate that every single runeset in the game has been changed and brought more in line with each other.

kitten this change ! ! I only used 4 perplex just for that 4th slot !
kitten U
kitten U kitten U kitten U!

Yea I think let the runes in give it 2 weeks to monitor and hit up the community then go from there.

A lot of condi classes are going to run this so there should be plenty to judge on after2 weeks. It’s impact or lack of will be seen immediately the rune isn’t necessarily new in function so it shouldn’t take long to figure out if it needs to be readjusted.

Like I said any class with interrupt this rune is a no brainer if you are condi. Figuring out which does more damage and therefore is the must have rune for condi is easy for condition builds.

It is possible they are betting on the anti condition runes to counter condition classes if they buffed those too. They buffed sigil of accuracy to 7% crit chance which I didn’t see coming at all so anything is possible.

dimyzuka.7051:

Perplexity runes should buff confusion specs, it shouldn’t turn you into a confusion spec.

Preach, brotha. This is very wrong, and I hope the confusion is changed to anything but an offensive condition stack.

I’m not really happy about this either. But I guess it is wait and see since this will get implemented as shown, no doubt about that.

What makes Perplexity so bad in WvW is the immense power creep from gear, food, Bloodlust and Applied strength. Over 2k condition damage and almost up to 100% condition duration are disastrous. But we won’t see that in PvP (yet?). If this is somewhat comforting, it doesn’t make the possible combos with Perplexity less scary: Thief interrupt steal, condition bunker Warriors (Mace-Sword-Longbow with Distracting Strikes, yikes), node fighter Engineers with Flame Thrower (Air Blast as a spammable interrupt) and Bomb Kit, even condition Necromancers now with the Fear interrupt, etc.

I just hope that runes like Hoelbrak will also get an increase in condition duration reduction or other runes may remove conditions on skill use (but please nothing like Lyssa ). Maybe Sigil of Puritiy (the one that removes a condition on hit) will even become useful.

I didn’t watch the streams so my apologies if I am not up to date.

@ elmobenchwarmer purity and generosity are being added both can be used both with a 60% chance to remove a condition. Obviously generosity is the transfer throw on rune of water which hasn’t been shown but my guess is proc chance increased to 25% based on runes shown so far.

I feel like melandru or hoelbrak need the food from WvW to make good use of OR a condition reduction trait. Bunker engis could run the tweaked ar with hoelbrak for -74% condi duration or throw on the -33% reduction cripple,chill, immob trait or both as a example to counter.

It’s possible though that they did buff the reductions on antitoxin, resistance, melandru, and hoelbrak but we haven’t seen any preview of those.

BlackBeard.2873:

Now necros will be able to reliably condi-bomb you with EVERY SINGLE CONDI IN THE GAME!!

To be fair, necros are already able to use the current perplexity’s 6th bonus with Spectral Grasp and warhorn. And other than that they can apply every condition with corruptions or transfers.

Also, 5 perplexity + cest/sigil was already the go-to damage option for necros in WvW. They will be rediculously overpowered after the patch.

On the other hand, I’m glad that Perplexity will be introduced in sPvP as well because that is more likely to get them nerfed (harder than the “substantial” icd increase…).

Idk how u even concider puting those runes to pvp , as a necro i already know that every necro gonna use it , it will be way to OP to not use it. Fear now will be interupt , DS fear 17s cd (traited) + reapers mark 40s cd + wail of doom 30s cd , potentialy 3 interupts , now when we will have more control over dhumfire necro will be killing machine.

Just think again about it , it will be realy not fun to have those runes for next 6 months till next patch.

I love how everyone was made to suffer these runes for months on end, and when they are finally going to spvp they are getting nerfed because “oops, i guess they are overpowered”.

Glad it took you only 9 months to catch on.

wait, is this actually happening? :S
if so brace yourself for the confusion meta!

hambow hammer stuns+knockback/down count as interrupts.
as do decap engi’s 100000 knockbacks.
terrormancer fears do too if i remember right.
and mesmer powerblock trait will see alot of mesmers focusing on interrupts.
pw thieves have an instant cast interrupt with no cooldown.

are there any meta builds that wouldn’t be massively buffed by this? XD

confusion is just a bad trait for pvp,
these runes (unless being massively changed) should never be accessible in pvp.

If these runes make it into the game ill lose faith in anet.

The whole community is telling you not to add them

If it was further nerfed to:

Remove 4th bonus confusion proc, move the +20% confusion duration bonus in it’s place. Reduce the duration of the 6th bonus confusion to 4 secs.

I’d still think it was a strong runeset to slot. I thought confusion was always meant to be a short duration, high impact condition, and not giving some classes (with high condi duration, I’m hoping the +40% food was taken a look at) the opportunity to have 5 stacks up on a target almost permanently.

Way to destroy spvp even more. GG.

Of all the runes to introduce.. Does it need to be more than one stack? Surely the condi spread alone is enough to make this OP?