Guild Wars 2

A lot of players don’t know there is life other than close mid deathmatch for 10mins.

They don’t understand you have to do something else if taking mid etc. doesn’t work but they just keep doing the same and call me or other players why the kitten i go far.

because if i don’t go far and keep doing what doesnt work with my terrible team or that deathmatch game most my teammates usually do at mid, that dont get you anywhere, we lose even more badly.

Do we have any pvp guides rotation guides on net that could be sticky or attach it into pvp mode or do both for even more success.

I just lost two games because players keep feeding mid and got beaten again and again. I can’t “carry” that. Sorry.

Oh and also attach a guide about defending if you have 2 cap points, i can’t count how many games i’ve lost we had 2 cap points and people never defend or rush to far after we having 2 cap points to die then we lose all cap points i die in a 1v2 or 1v3 only i trying to defend what we have after that everyone going alone and die in 1v3’s etc so i almost never can go in group as necro if everyone go alone back after respawn to die 1v3.
How do i carry this all as full solo player especially with necro?

We really need a guide or an easier game mode like capture the flag that everyone understand.

I feel myself punished with having to play a lot games where people don’t know how to play so what they do in my division or what im doing in that division in same team with those players?

Rolisteel.1375:

How do i carry this all as full solo player especially with necro?

As a necro it is harder to play solo than some other classes – you should be aware of this and eventually change class, if you want to have an easier time. But for the beginning a few things:
As a necro you should try to help your teammates in teamfights or favourable 2v2/3vs3/3vs2/2vs1. If you are sure, you can win a 1vs1 before you are getting outnumbered, of course you can also go for it. But necros shouldn’t be in outnumbered fights, because you are going to die there, and dieing is always bad (of course not always avoidable). Going far at the beginning of a game just to die there, is pretty much the worst thing you can do as a necro (and you do this, i know it). You are putting your team at a disadvantage, right from the beginning. Stop blaming your team for losses, try to help them instead. In fights and by telling them (politely!), if they shouldn’t go mid/far/whatever. And don’t afk after half of a match, even if it looks hopeless. Afk’ing doesn’t help winning and it doesn’t help improving.

1. I never go far at start it pointless to go far at start with necro as always a class take it that counter me or the fight would take too long so i get +1’ +2’d
2. i never afk

Well, maybe there are 2 Rolisteels, who play necro …
My advice stays the same. Don’t blame your team – help them.

Don’t think you could do a worthy guide involving rotations .. I mean strict super basics sure but really rotations aren’t based on a static set of rules. It’s a matter of quick reaction and team adaptation on how your enemy decides it’s play and comps especially when talking about top teams with good thieves.

Man I feel like I should this put this on a recorded loop. A few months ago we put together the basis for a what could’ve been a stickied post tutorial. Then started putting together a guide for rotation.

Original “beginner tutorial” thread: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

Work in Progress (uncompleted) rotation guide: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

Most recently I’ve been trying to encourage a push to demand Anet implement some kind of tutorial here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/PVP-Needs-Tutorial-pls-comment-if-agree

The forums continue to be littered with complaints and lamentations regarding the lack of skill and knowledge of the player base, yet seem to be incapable of supporting a move to compel Anet to act.

The real issue is these condi/sustain builds, or 3 DH setups, that make you believe you know how to rotate but you don’t really do.. It’s not really fun when you’re in gold division, where your teammates ( although not very experienced sometimes) do their best, but end up getting facerolled by people who do not know how to rotate neither, but got some OP build..

That being said, besides rotation, i think what should be explained is :
- Not chasing players off points when you’re holding it
- Not trying to kill svanir/chieftain alone
- Doing the maths : when you have 470-380, camping close is usually enough if it’s going badly on other points for example

blitzkrieg.2451:

Don’t think you could do a worthy guide involving rotations .. I mean strict super basics sure but really rotations aren’t based on a static set of rules. It’s a matter of quick reaction and team adaptation on how your enemy decides it’s play and comps especially when talking about top teams with good thieves.

Explanation that fighting for a decapped node is a better option than going 1v1 on a capped enemy node is a good start.

I think Anet needs to implement an additional tutorial to PvP.
One that explains rotations, priorities & stresses the importance of map awareness.

There are endless videos that show those that are interested in learning in rotations, its literally two search words in google. If a player is not interested they are not likely to suddenly become engaged because of outdated concepts like tutorials. A better carrot (if it were possible) would be to reward good rotation through the game, e.g ‘top gameplay’ , ‘least deaths’, ‘top activity overall’ very difficult ofc.

Unfortunately, there is no easy guide to rotations. It’s always incredibly situational and depends on your team’s make up, the enemy team, the map, and many other factors.

I’ve been on many teams with good players that just aren’t on the same page. It’s not that they don’t know how to rotate, it’s just that often time they’re trying two different valid strategies at same time so they both fail.

Are you better pushing far to go for a decap or are you better supporting your team at mid so they aren’t outnumbered and wipe? Depends.

My main goals are to try and fight in even or +1 fights and to hold 2 points. I try to adjust accordingly, but it doesn’t always work. I’ve found that when i play on my scrapper, I win most of the even fights I get into (2v2, 3v3, 4v4, etc) – as I should on that class.

Some classes like scrapper, function better in team fights. Some classes like necro function better with support around them. Other classes are better at 1v1 or have the mobility to decap uncontested points. There are some general rules that help, but again, a lot depends on being aware of the situation.

Sounds like your team just had an overall skill gap. No matter how you rotate, at some point, you have to be able to win a team fight.

I think more so than anything, the importance of communication needs to be stressed more. In some of my games the difference has been night and day when comparing games where people do communicate and those that don’t.

My personal rule is to be talkative right at the beginning, see who’s going to talk and who isn’t. At the very least let them know that I’m going to communicate. Usually stating I’m taking home, or asking the mesmer if they’re going to, or asking the thief if they’re going to escort home or harass far. At the very least it sets up the basis of the first minute or two of the match.

Another thing worth mentioning is having a shot caller. This can be especially volatile in this sort of environment where everyone thinks they’re the best and egos are just oozing into the text box. But that needs to be set aside by someone to follow some sense of direction. I’ve had games where I took up the role of calling shots, I’ve had other games where I started doing it but someone else was doing it as well and I just let them do it as I didn’t want orders to get mixed up. That little bit of cooperation and communication with an easy flow can mean the difference between a win and a loss. Of course, it’s not to say that anyone who’s a shot caller is a good shot caller. Everything should be taken with a grain of salt and everyone should know when to ignore a call because it’s just plain stupid.

In any case, I agree with some of the above sentiments, that it’s hard to make a solid rotation guide because matches are by nature fluid. It’s not the same as writing a boss guide for raids. There aren’t triggers or things that happen at set times. However I believe a priority list can be made for those who are curious enough to research to keep in the back of their minds when deciding what to do second by second in a match. Sadly I don’t see such a thing ever really being implemented into the game.

You don’t need a guide. You need to watch the mini map. You look at the points you have, whether or not they’re contested, count enemies, and rotate help with apparporiate numbers. That’s rotating.

Rushing far because you can’t take mid is a whole different thing. And if you think you can leave your team and go far solo and be a benefit to your team then you need to think again. Virtually everyone I see going far is ignoring their teammates and leaving them short handed in a team fight and likely setting them up for failure and getting your team snowballed off the map. Running their solo after losing a team fight just spreads your team out at a time when they need to regroup. Seriously. People are kittening terrible at pushing far. If you really want to win, learn to team fight. Learn to create advantages in fights first, then rotating will get obvious and easy.

Anyone have a guide for a support ele? Here’s the deal:

I go mid at the start of the game. Most of the time we win the teamfight, and I am left behind to hold mid.

If home is struggling, I abandon mid and go home to help support.

The thing is, people tell me “go back mid, ele” or if I’m at mid “help us, ele!”

I don’t get it.

basic rotation is 1-4-0 (enemy team do 0-4-1)

from that point is can go whatever. if your team win mid stay 1-4-0 and eyes on close.
if your team started to lose mid than push far while 2 stay mid and just kite to prolong mid fight and hope for 2-4 for couple of seconds on mid (depends if the enemy team stay at mid 3 at least, as you can outnumbered far and win it)
if your team has a thief/rev/mes he should do the rotation mind game even in the cost of 3v4 mid as he can decap fast and come back to help

please please take target for guard,rev,thief

also depends your team class and role versus the enemy. if your team has more dmg try close-far as you can fast kill far and win it.
if your team has more support try close mid and hold it or also 1 sustain push far not letting the enemy to win the far point easy.

try to out rotate the ele support. unless your team can kill him fast.

target the necro first.

on mid try 2v1v2v1 ( ie 2 allies target 1 enemy and another 2 allies target another enemy. this way you push 2 enemies to use defense utilities. and then target 1 and 4v1 for easy kill and another 1 after. (depends on your team dmg and support versus the enemy)

try not to die, never. (mostly never)

dmg dealer should look for thief,mesmer or rev to push them little bit so they wont have free time killing…

this is very basic as if you fight versus good team they will try to out rotate you and will never let you outnumbered if they dont think they can hold it, so you will see always 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 and hardly 3v2 4v3 etc… (thief excluded as +1)

if you see your team have 2 support versus 1 support and 1 dmg try to switch so your team can have the support were needed. dont let ele fight in 1v1 so switch with him …

dont stomp if not needed and let them bleed.

if your team wiped than consider it like the start of the game. dont 3 way split. try steamroll mid or far again 1-4-0 or 1-0-4

Abelisk.4527:

Anyone have a guide for a support ele? Here’s the deal:

I go mid at the start of the game. Most of the time we win the teamfight, and I am left behind to hold mid.

If home is struggling, I abandon mid and go home to help support.

The thing is, people tell me “go back mid, ele” or if I’m at mid “help us, ele!”

I don’t get it.

as support you should look for team fight or if your team leave you on mid that you need to hold it till help comes. so 1v2 should be after 20 sec 2v2 while the point is still yours.
check the hp bar of your team. if you see 2 allies losing lots of hp and gaining it back it means they used heal skills and be dead in couple of second so rush to help…..unless the wipe is much faster.

Gonna had 3 points to my previous list :
- Don’t go for lord at 150 points, and especially when you’re not clearly winning. Doing this is about leaving your team 4v5 on other points, while the 5v5 is already not going well, and ends up to a quick lose 95% of the time
- Don’t engage a 1v1 you cannot win, or that you already lost : you might leave your team at 4v4, but you’re still giving +5 pts to the enemy and making it eventually 4v5 for a few seconds
- Read the chat : it’s really, really, annoying when you post about the 2 steps above and you’re completly ignored

I think players should play solo queue believing no one in your team will win a 1v1. This way, it’s much more interesting and you play better as a team

What PvP needs is a TUTORIAL.

PvE has a tutorial, WvW has a tutorial. PVP HAS NO TUTORIAL.

JTGuevara.9018:

What PvP needs is a TUTORIAL.

PvE has a tutorial, WvW has a tutorial. PVP HAS NO TUTORIAL.

the problem you cannot do fully tutorial for every scenario as there are too many variant
1. your build
2. your skill lvl
3. allies build
4. allies skill lvl
5. enemy build
6. enemy skill lvl
7. first rotation
8. outcome
9. second rotation
10. and so on …. till 15 min ends

you might do some popup quiz like if 1 in close and 2 on mid and enemy rush to mid where should you go?….. LOL

if you play dmg dealer, your enemy is winning mid and you have close where should you go

messiah.1908:

JTGuevara.9018:

What PvP needs is a TUTORIAL.

PvE has a tutorial, WvW has a tutorial. PVP HAS NO TUTORIAL.

the problem you cannot do fully tutorial for every scenario as there are too many variant
1. your build
2. your skill lvl
3. allies build
4. allies skill lvl
5. enemy build
6. enemy skill lvl
7. first rotation
8. outcome
9. second rotation
10. and so on …. till 15 min ends

you might do some popup quiz like if 1 in close and 2 on mid and enemy rush to mid where should you go?….. LOL

if you play dmg dealer, your enemy is winning mid and you have close where should you go

You’re already going in details that can be debated roughly since there sometimes isn’t a decision much better than an other. Point is to make a quick guide about what loses games too easily. Typically, chasing people off point happens too frequently.

It’s kind of the same debate in a football game when you’re winning 2-0 at the 70’ mark. Should you play defensive and secure the score, or keep attacking ? I think first option is usually better in solo queue..

These are all things you learn by playing the game and working with your team. You need to learn the criteria for assessing situations and making winning decisions. Because as the list indicates there are a wide variety of variables that could be relevant… or not. The only way you learn is by playing and actually trying to learn.

PVP Protips- Team Handicap Assessment

Player(s) complaining about rotating before the 100 point mark = -1
Player(s) going far for a triple cap after winning mid = -1
Player(s) back pedaling in a fight= -1
Player(s) that speak more than 3 lines in team chat before the 250 point mark are probably continually dead at spawn = -1

Conclusion- assume you are entering pvp in a 1v5 situation unless u duo queue.

shiri.4257:

PVP Protips- Team Handicap Assessment

Player(s) complaining about rotating before the 100 point mark = -1
Player(s) going far for a triple cap after winning mid = -1
Player(s) back pedaling in a fight= -1
Player(s) that speak more than 3 lines in team chat before the 250 point mark are probably continually dead at spawn = -1

Conclusion- assume you are entering pvp in a 1v5 situation unless u duo queue.

You call these “Pro tips”?

You sound more like the problem than the solution. Team communication and coordination is crucial to winning. If you’re ignoring or dismissing team chat then you are definitely doing it entirely wrong.

No one wins a 1v5 in this game. No one. If you leave your team all you’ve done is divide your forces and reduce your chances of winning substantially. This mindset is so wrong it actually contradicts any notion of winning in this game.

hackks.3687:

You don’t need a guide. You need to watch the mini map. You look at the points you have, whether or not they’re contested, count enemies, and rotate help with apparporiate numbers. That’s rotating.

Rushing far because you can’t take mid is a whole different thing. And if you think you can leave your team and go far solo and be a benefit to your team then you need to think again. Virtually everyone I see going far is ignoring their teammates and leaving them short handed in a team fight and likely setting them up for failure and getting your team snowballed off the map. Running their solo after losing a team fight just spreads your team out at a time when they need to regroup. Seriously. People are kittening terrible at pushing far. If you really want to win, learn to team fight. Learn to create advantages in fights first, then rotating will get obvious and easy.

hi rigga, this is puny pepper, i have found you!! thats all, bye

If anyone can help me clean this up, I would be happy to submit for use as a guide:

Work in Progress (uncompleted) rotation guide: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known-About-Rotation

My amateur tips:
1. It’s ok to push far at start if you notify your team. Make sure your teams have builds that can survive being outnumbered at mid.
2. Know your builds role. Some builds are designed for team fights or support. Scrapper, tempests should be looking for group fights to have best impact. Necros benefit from having allies nearby for support.
3. It’s better to wait a few seconds for your allies to respawn or catch up then rushing into fight outnumbered. That’s how you snowball.
4. Don’t fight a bunker build when you’re on a bunker build unless you hold the point.
5. You dont have to hold all 3 pts to win.
6. Killing lord gives you 150 pts. And usually gives the enemy a triple cap.
7. Most of pro teams don’t use treb. There’s a reason.
8. Call targets. But also make sure you know which class to target first.

messiah.1908:

JTGuevara.9018:

What PvP needs is a TUTORIAL.

PvE has a tutorial, WvW has a tutorial. PVP HAS NO TUTORIAL.

the problem you cannot do fully tutorial for every scenario as there are too many variant
1. your build
2. your skill lvl
3. allies build
4. allies skill lvl
5. enemy build
6. enemy skill lvl
7. first rotation
8. outcome
9. second rotation
10. and so on …. till 15 min ends

you might do some popup quiz like if 1 in close and 2 on mid and enemy rush to mid where should you go?….. LOL

if you play dmg dealer, your enemy is winning mid and you have close where should you go

It doesn’t matter! You NEED a tutorial! Otherwise, how the hell will new players learn to play?!

JTGuevara.9018:

messiah.1908:

JTGuevara.9018:

What PvP needs is a TUTORIAL.

PvE has a tutorial, WvW has a tutorial. PVP HAS NO TUTORIAL.

the problem you cannot do fully tutorial for every scenario as there are too many variant
1. your build
2. your skill lvl
3. allies build
4. allies skill lvl
5. enemy build
6. enemy skill lvl
7. first rotation
8. outcome
9. second rotation
10. and so on …. till 15 min ends

you might do some popup quiz like if 1 in close and 2 on mid and enemy rush to mid where should you go?….. LOL

if you play dmg dealer, your enemy is winning mid and you have close where should you go

It doesn’t matter! You NEED a tutorial! Otherwise, how the hell will new players learn to play?!

Got one of those too: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Things-I-Wish-I-d-Known

Been asking, begging and pleading. Nothing happens.