Guild Wars 2

One half of me that plays classes without teleports is pumped for this! The other half that has teleports integrated is not! * head explodes *

On the bright side, this won’t affect the mesmer place in the meta much. That which does not exist can not be removed…

Ain’t a nerf, it’s a fix… and i’m speaking as former main thief ( now is my second).

Gaaroth.2567:

Ain’t a nerf, it’s a fix… and i’m speaking as former main thief ( now is my second).

Indirect nerf, and a big one. Speaking about that, i wonder if anet did this to buff other zerkers (ranger par example) or just to bugfix.

mm this change would simply be idiotic , cant think of a nicer way to put it.

Amonatory.2453:

Firebird.8324:

Amonatory.2453:

Firebird.8324:

Amonatory.2453:

It’s funny how firebird is even commenting, he doesn’t really know pvp….. he follows crysis and just get ressed after eating everything possible and dodging afterwards. Anyways, this change is idiotic… just making cele and ranger even more powerful, along with making thief mes and guard less viable. Why have a thief? Because mobility and burst. Whats this doing? Limiting mobility basically making it even harder to play thief in already and aids/cancer cele meta…. GG anet once again you amaze me.

It’s funny because I’ve won more tournaments then you’ve been in. Played bunker guard too (so I’ve been the one rezzing crysis in the past) and I hope you can learn to do something other than spam dodge and hope sharks with lazers will reform and want you :P

Hmm, you’ve been carried in more tournaments than me sure. But in general you are an awful player with awful opinions, maybe Cwysis can teach you how to play
PS: I play every thief spec

LOL all you can say is that im awful and being carried? God a five year old could hit harder than you. Look I know im the best power necro in NA and you are some thief that is lower and will always be lower than any other thief I can think of, caed toker aerox muffinz, I don’t even think of You when I think of thief, but everyone thinks of me when they think of power necro

Now get with your think-tank of schizophrenic generated buddies and impress me

Do you really think youre the best power necro? LMAO. Im not going to sit in this forum and flex an kitten, but dude when I think of power necros you do come up, but not as the best but as the kittentiest player in all elements of the game.

Pretty sure everyone knows him that way.

OMNIBUS.2913:

Ravenmoon.5318:

OMNIBUS.2913:

glorius.1235:

OMNIBUS.2913:

glorius.1235:

Quoting and replying to the comment that has some rightful salt in it due to listening to the continuous repeating of the same flat out wrong argument, instead of answering to the valid points others make doesn’t do you more good either.

Hypocrisy at its finest^ Plz elaborate whats wrong with any argument beyond just saying they are wrong. And who are you determine what rightful salt is? And why does rightful salt mean you don’t have to make any points and can call people bad?

It’s been explained several times even in this very thread how teleport skills the way they are functioning as of now are an absolute necessity for certain classes to survive.
If you don’t know what’s wrong with the argument that keeps tossing this quite important point away, you either:
A.) pretend you don’t understand it
B.) overlook it
C.) actually don’t get the point

None of the aboves mean that me or anyone else explaining it the X+1 times will make any significant results.

Rightful salt regarding listening to the same wrong argument again and again. Please, read what I wrote above.

I’ve made several points in my previous post. You are yet to nnullify them.

I’ve made several points too in which you have not responded to(hypocrisy!). Blink on mesmer is not only a way to survive but basically its gg vs anyone who also has no stealth, invuln or blocks becuase their AI keeps pummeling away. It needs to go… Plz tell me how do i fight mesmer that I can’t hit 80% of the time becuase he is either stealthed, blocking, invuln, blinked to some location i cant los, interuppted me or moa’s me(by the tiem all these things are done and recharging my ds is gone and im at low health cause my only option is to try to run away or die). All while the AI constantly hits me…… How does necro fight and beat this? Rhetorical question pretty much cause you cant beat what you cant hit but i’ll wait and see what you have to say.

Cleave only wrecks stealthed thieves btw^ mesmers can ranged. And death shroud can’t be compared to an invuln that negates everything. Ds drains which means you can reset the fight and come back after the life force is goign down or gone. And you can play ping pong ball on necro which has no access to its utilities in ds

1) Activate Lichform
2) Press #1
3) Press #1 again
4) Stomp
?
profit?

Maybe against noob mesmers. Good ones will do this.

Activate lich form… Mesmer teleports up stairs, stealths and runs away until lich is over and comes back to kill you with no elite. Or better yet Moa= gg lich.

And also I dont use lich form in pvp for the very reason of resets.

Sooo you are implying that you can’t bait mesmer to attack you at a spot of your choosing? Shame on you….

Ravenmoon.5318:

OMNIBUS.2913:

Ravenmoon.5318:

OMNIBUS.2913:

glorius.1235:

OMNIBUS.2913:

glorius.1235:

Quoting and replying to the comment that has some rightful salt in it due to listening to the continuous repeating of the same flat out wrong argument, instead of answering to the valid points others make doesn’t do you more good either.

Hypocrisy at its finest^ Plz elaborate whats wrong with any argument beyond just saying they are wrong. And who are you determine what rightful salt is? And why does rightful salt mean you don’t have to make any points and can call people bad?

It’s been explained several times even in this very thread how teleport skills the way they are functioning as of now are an absolute necessity for certain classes to survive.
If you don’t know what’s wrong with the argument that keeps tossing this quite important point away, you either:
A.) pretend you don’t understand it
B.) overlook it
C.) actually don’t get the point

None of the aboves mean that me or anyone else explaining it the X+1 times will make any significant results.

Rightful salt regarding listening to the same wrong argument again and again. Please, read what I wrote above.

I’ve made several points in my previous post. You are yet to nnullify them.

I’ve made several points too in which you have not responded to(hypocrisy!). Blink on mesmer is not only a way to survive but basically its gg vs anyone who also has no stealth, invuln or blocks becuase their AI keeps pummeling away. It needs to go… Plz tell me how do i fight mesmer that I can’t hit 80% of the time becuase he is either stealthed, blocking, invuln, blinked to some location i cant los, interuppted me or moa’s me(by the tiem all these things are done and recharging my ds is gone and im at low health cause my only option is to try to run away or die). All while the AI constantly hits me…… How does necro fight and beat this? Rhetorical question pretty much cause you cant beat what you cant hit but i’ll wait and see what you have to say.

Cleave only wrecks stealthed thieves btw^ mesmers can ranged. And death shroud can’t be compared to an invuln that negates everything. Ds drains which means you can reset the fight and come back after the life force is goign down or gone. And you can play ping pong ball on necro which has no access to its utilities in ds

1) Activate Lichform
2) Press #1
3) Press #1 again
4) Stomp
?
profit?

Maybe against noob mesmers. Good ones will do this.

Activate lich form… Mesmer teleports up stairs, stealths and runs away until lich is over and comes back to kill you with no elite. Or better yet Moa= gg lich.

And also I dont use lich form in pvp for the very reason of resets.

Sooo you are implying that you can’t bait mesmer to attack you at a spot of your choosing? Shame on you….

Ok u got me, gg. I’ll try to control good mesmers mind next time and make them come after me while im in lich. I guess your also implying that mesmers can’t think themselves and must always fall for bait. And you also implied you can’t handle lich form yourself with the oversimplified example. Lich form=2 auto attacks and gg for you huh? Anyway im leaving this thread now so quote me all you want talk crap idc.

Because breaking line of sight is so kitten hard, make a thief and go against a ranger. Wonder what threads would you make then

Hint: If you don’t LOS, you dead.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Because breaking line of sight is so kitten hard, make a thief and go against a ranger. Wonder what threads would you make then

Hint: If you don’t LOS, you dead.

I can’t tell or not if this is a thief post complaining about LOS when a good portion of the thief’s own skill set ignores LOS, Steal being a MASSIVE offender of this which is unbelievable on so many levels. I abuse it myself all the time and it’s kind of ridiculous. In which case even if you do LOS a thief you’re dead anyway so.

What I really want is some consistency in naming.

We can’t have different form of instant movement with the same name. Specially since people may expect them to work in a different way because effects with those names work in a different way in other games.

Guild Wars’ “shadow step” as it was originally envisioned, it’s an instant run to the target, while not being affected by any skill effect on the way, and while not being able to reach anywhere you can get within a certain amount of time while running without jumping. It was different from the already existing “teleport” that was used in other skills (funny enough, those teleports were changed to shadow steps later).

The original Guild Wars teleport allowed moving between two points regardless of any obstacles or being able to see the destination. Like how mesmer Portals and Spectral Recall work in GW2. Spectral recall merely say “return”, while the mesmer portal says “Teleport”.

A player should be able to know what a skill will exactly do just by reading the description. They should not wonder why this skills does one thing and this other skills that says it does the same thing actually does a different thing.

As a result, when they fix shadow steps skills and shadow steps skills that say “teleport”, so you can’t reach places you can’t reach by walking within a limited amount of time, people will wonder why the isn’t the teleport teleporting.

Of course it is not teleporting! It’s not a teleport! It never was! The skill description lies!

I think I’m cursed when it comes to choosing what profession and build to play. I was told that my original choice (power necro) isn’t viable in high end pvp. So I switched to mesmer and also have been playing around with thief.

This, if it happens, completely ruins mesmer in high end pvp and somewhat gimps thieves. My apologies to you guys for bringing my curse to your professions.

This is a good change if they don’t make the game glitchy like it was last time they tried.

It’s not like it’s the most important thing to fix in the game, but removes some cheese from thief.

Next step is to fix all the restant cheese ( double procs, double weap swaps, cele, trickery steal) so i can start playing this game again.

Saiyan.1704:

Drennon.7190:

Booms.2594:

Saiyan.1704:

This better not change how Guardian teleports with flashing blade and Judge’s intervention… that’s all I gotta say…

it will. which is why im kittened.

Didn’t you hear? Teleports are super OP.

I’m still trying to understand the extent of “No Vertical Teleport”.
Please tell me, which of the following attached pictures are allowed if this patch went live? Obviously there are more spots to Teleport but this will give me an idea.

A→ with Sword u can engage-disengage from below the treb. Clearly broken and uninted, since u teleport through walls ( altough there’s a walk path for it).
Broken.

B→ Same as A. Another case of “through walls” vertical mobility.
Broken

D→ Same as A. With sword u can go through walls as long as u have a target on mid.
Broken

E→ Same as A.
Broken

They’re all broken ports mechanics that reward the thief and thief only ( my main is thief btw).

If your ability is a shadow step (and almost all teleport abilities are shadowsteps, ask Coulter for details) it SHOULD be that you shouldn’t be able to go through walls, even if there’s a walk path for it ( teleporting on Niflhel mid ledge from below is the clear example).

Shadow step should work ONLY if there’s a STRAIGHT WALK PATH, otherwise teleport classes have too much edge over the others.

This is a good change, but they really need to rebalance certain professions after this change, cuz thief will get much worse, mesmer will receive a bigh hit but will be compensated by thieves not being able to pursue them as good as before and even necros will get a hit but they still have spectral walk ( spectral return is a TRUE teleport btw).

Mostly cuz i don’t want to see pew pew rangers invading tPvP.

Mrbig.8019:

Saiyan.1704:

Drennon.7190:

Booms.2594:

Saiyan.1704:

This better not change how Guardian teleports with flashing blade and Judge’s intervention… that’s all I gotta say…

it will. which is why im kittened.

Didn’t you hear? Teleports are super OP.

I’m still trying to understand the extent of “No Vertical Teleport”.
Please tell me, which of the following attached pictures are allowed if this patch went live? Obviously there are more spots to Teleport but this will give me an idea.

A-> with Sword u can engage-disengage from below the treb. Clearly broken and uninted, since u teleport through walls ( altough there’s a walk path for it).
Broken.

B-> Same as A. Another case of “through walls” vertical mobility.
Broken

D-> Same as A. With sword u can go through walls as long as u have a target on mid.
Broken

E-> Same as A.
Broken

They’re all broken ports mechanics that reward the thief and thief only ( my main is thief btw).

If your ability is a shadow step (and almost all teleport abilities are shadowsteps, ask Coulter for details) it SHOULD be that you shouldn’t be able to go through walls, even if there’s a walk path for it ( teleporting on Niflhel mid ledge from below is the clear example).

Shadow step should work ONLY if there’s a STRAIGHT WALK PATH, otherwise teleport classes have too much edge over the others.

This is a good change, but they really need to rebalance certain professions after this change, cuz thief will get much worse, mesmer will receive a bigh hit but will be compensated by thieves not being able to pursue them as good as before and even necros will get a hit but they still have spectral walk ( spectral return is a TRUE teleport btw).

Mostly cuz i don’t want to see pew pew rangers invading tPvP.

Thanks for the reply.
A lot of thief skills say Shadow Step. Guardian has Teleport. I’m pretty sure the Guardian’s Teleport is on the same mechanics. Edit: Right like you said lol.

It will hurt Guardians more than thieves if this is the case. Our two “Teleport” skills will become even more frustrating and wasteful… these need to be class specific.

At the very least Anet could redefine these skills.
A “Teleport” should be an instantaneously port regardless of objects while Shadowsteps should be line of sight/pathways only.

Mrbig.8019:

This is a good change if they don’t make the game glitchy like it was last time they tried.

It’s not like it’s the most important thing to fix in the game, but removes some cheese from thief.

Next step is to fix all the restant cheese ( double procs, double weap swaps, cele, trickery steal) so i can start playing this game again.

So basically remove thief from the game. I mean this is how the class is designed to play. It’s a burst class and that’s pretty much all it will ever be. Same with mesmer.
Both mesmer and thief are burst classes either through condi or power so removing their gimmicks basically cripples them. Scratch that… they were crippled to begin with…

Saiyan.1704:

Mrbig.8019:

Saiyan.1704:

Drennon.7190:

Booms.2594:

Saiyan.1704:

This better not change how Guardian teleports with flashing blade and Judge’s intervention… that’s all I gotta say…

it will. which is why im kittened.

Didn’t you hear? Teleports are super OP.

I’m still trying to understand the extent of “No Vertical Teleport”.
Please tell me, which of the following attached pictures are allowed if this patch went live? Obviously there are more spots to Teleport but this will give me an idea.

A-> with Sword u can engage-disengage from below the treb. Clearly broken and uninted, since u teleport through walls ( altough there’s a walk path for it).
Broken.

B-> Same as A. Another case of “through walls” vertical mobility.
Broken

D-> Same as A. With sword u can go through walls as long as u have a target on mid.
Broken

E-> Same as A.
Broken

They’re all broken ports mechanics that reward the thief and thief only ( my main is thief btw).

If your ability is a shadow step (and almost all teleport abilities are shadowsteps, ask Coulter for details) it SHOULD be that you shouldn’t be able to go through walls, even if there’s a walk path for it ( teleporting on Niflhel mid ledge from below is the clear example).

Shadow step should work ONLY if there’s a STRAIGHT WALK PATH, otherwise teleport classes have too much edge over the others.

This is a good change, but they really need to rebalance certain professions after this change, cuz thief will get much worse, mesmer will receive a bigh hit but will be compensated by thieves not being able to pursue them as good as before and even necros will get a hit but they still have spectral walk ( spectral return is a TRUE teleport btw).

Mostly cuz i don’t want to see pew pew rangers invading tPvP.

Thanks for the reply.
A lot of thief skills say Shadow Step. Guardian has Teleport. I’m pretty sure the Guardian’s Teleport is on the same mechanics. Edit: Right like you said lol.

It will hurt Guardians more than thieves if this is the case. Our two “Teleport” skills will become even more frustrating and wasteful… these need to be class specific.

At the very least Anet could redefine these skills.
A “Teleport” should be an instantaneously port regardless of objects while Shadowsteps should be line of sight/pathways only.

It won’t hurt guardians cuz guardian mobility isn’t mandatory.

Their teleports are used more to stick on target/burst in rather than an in-built mechanic.

This isn’t the case of thieves/mesmers ( thief more heavily) , since they are totally dependant upon dodging-teleporting-stealthing in and out.

Mrbig.8019:

Saiyan.1704:

Drennon.7190:

Booms.2594:

Saiyan.1704:

This better not change how Guardian teleports with flashing blade and Judge’s intervention… that’s all I gotta say…

it will. which is why im kittened.

Didn’t you hear? Teleports are super OP.

I’m still trying to understand the extent of “No Vertical Teleport”.
Please tell me, which of the following attached pictures are allowed if this patch went live? Obviously there are more spots to Teleport but this will give me an idea.

A-> with Sword u can engage-disengage from below the treb. Clearly broken and uninted, since u teleport through walls ( altough there’s a walk path for it).
Broken.

B-> Same as A. Another case of “through walls” vertical mobility.
Broken

D-> Same as A. With sword u can go through walls as long as u have a target on mid.
Broken

E-> Same as A.
Broken

They’re all broken ports mechanics that reward the thief and thief only ( my main is thief btw).

If your ability is a shadow step (and almost all teleport abilities are shadowsteps, ask Coulter for details) it SHOULD be that you shouldn’t be able to go through walls, even if there’s a walk path for it ( teleporting on Niflhel mid ledge from below is the clear example).

Shadow step should work ONLY if there’s a STRAIGHT WALK PATH, otherwise teleport classes have too much edge over the others.

This is a good change, but they really need to rebalance certain professions after this change, cuz thief will get much worse, mesmer will receive a bigh hit but will be compensated by thieves not being able to pursue them as good as before and even necros will get a hit but they still have spectral walk ( spectral return is a TRUE teleport btw).

Mostly cuz i don’t want to see pew pew rangers invading tPvP.

Those random pew pewer would not be successful if all the solo quers have that mindset and no-one bunk on point but just pew pew.

I can’t tell you how many times my random team’s Guardian/ Warrior ditch me on mid and try to roam somewhere themselves before the node is full cap (even though I travel faster than them, and even though I told them I cant bunk on node)

This really kittenes me off. This change is dumb. Cuz i mean theifs and mesmers are obviously dominating all roles of pvp, oh wait thats cele engi/ele/war. I dont understand this change. But thats just my opinion but what do i know? All these guys that are saying “oh yea good change, had to happen” obviously know so much about pvp lets listen to them. kitteng angry as kitten right now

Why is there no statement about that change? Why did they thought it’s a thing? It basically scraps 2 classes from the PvP game. Did they even test this? So Rangers have even more facerolling without the threat of a thief jumping on them? Why exactly did they name the class thief if it can’t do kitten? Ever seen what happens to a thief if he runs into a foght and stays there?…

Anet, don’t kitteng ruin your game with this change. If it’s true that all/most vertical ports are going to be removed because they weren’t “intended”, you’re going to anger a lot of people.

The only reason this game is even remotely succeeding, and gaining in popularity recently is because of how it differed from other MM O’s. I honestly don’t give a flying kitten if you guys are arguing that it wasn’t intended or not, vertical ports are a part of pvp. Without it, the way pvp works in general will be changed.

Wasn’t intended? When did you guys decide to make up that excuse? You guys fixed so many port spots because they weren’t intended, but those were certain spots, not all ports as a whole.
It honestly seems like the only reason you guys are wanting to get rid of it is because you don’t want to waste anymore resources ‘fixing’ port spots, just like you did with underwater combat. Underwater combat? Ahhh fixing it will be too difficult, lets just delete it from pvp, even though the majority liked Raid of the Capricorn.

This has been part of Gw2 for 2 years now and is unique to it. Please for once listen to the community. There will be a petition soon and you will see that the majority of the pvp community disagrees with this change.

this has to be a joke

only new players would have a problem vertical with ports. no exceptions.

Phaeton.9582:

this has to be a joke

only new players would have a problem vertical with ports. no exceptions.

What? A lot of people have ‘a problem’ with people exploiting a map to have unintended mobility.

Drennon.7190:

blakdoxa.7520:

I think people need to understand thieves and mesmers situations a little better. Basically, their meta is composed of one-trick pony a.k.a. gimmick builds. Their only outlets are condi burst or power burst. Stealth and teleport skills/utilities are there to only bolster what little sustain they have really.

Once anet realizes the pvp populations for mesmer and thief have dropped off there’s no saving them having to wait 6 months a balance patch.

Even though both class can be annoying, honestly, their gimmicks are the only thing keeping them in the current meta.

This 100%

+1000

Anyone disagreeing doesn’t play thief (and thus hopes for them to be nerfed, cause they hate an unpredictable cloacking profession, no matter how weak their skills are overall).

Like i said in last post, skipping 3000 ’walking range (not fly range as we call it in dutch) is to much. Those spot, go ahead, and nerf.

Nerf every stair (600 range skipping), every hill (600-1200 range), every high difference skipping, and you got a huge problem, massive one.

First of all this makes thief fun, period (if you nerf this in pve, you will get massive amounts of complaints trust me, this skill, shortbow 5 is an iconic skill for thiefs that works well in most scenario’s, but still has bugs. Remove how it works now, and thief will basically use it’s most important class feature (yet more important then F1 who is useless half of time, especially untraited). Doing so, will just make the game closer to a boring 1 kill 2, 2 kill 3, 3 kill 1 (exceptions are not there anymore, you only counter your depending rock paper scissors weakness).

So ports now worse then usual leaps? Leaps have access to places not allowed by ports already. Vice versa for ports. Now the remove ports advantage?

Do you know what’s probably the most kittened thing of this change? Those skills will waste initiative even when they fail (as they do now) instead of showing “No Line of Sight” error.

So yeah, this action or “exploit” as some of you call it, are not as braindead as some of you make it out to be.

Last night I almost got obliterated by a D/P meta noob because I thought I can pass one wall with shadow step, so i failed to interrupt his basilisk (while having most of my skills in CD from previous fight), wasted tons of initiative and almost got rekt xD

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Drennon.7190:

blakdoxa.7520:

I think people need to understand thieves and mesmers situations a little better. Basically, their meta is composed of one-trick pony a.k.a. gimmick builds. Their only outlets are condi burst or power burst. Stealth and teleport skills/utilities are there to only bolster what little sustain they have really.

Once anet realizes the pvp populations for mesmer and thief have dropped off there’s no saving them having to wait 6 months a balance patch.

Even though both class can be annoying, honestly, their gimmicks are the only thing keeping them in the current meta.

This 100%

+1000

Anyone disagreeing doesn’t play thief (and thus hopes for them to be nerfed, cause they hate an unpredictable cloacking profession, no matter how weak their skills are overall).

Like i said in last post, skipping 3000 ’walking range (not fly range as we call it in dutch) is to much. Those spot, go ahead, and nerf.

Nerf every stair (600 range skipping), every hill (600-1200 range), every high difference skipping, and you got a huge problem, massive one.

First of all this makes thief fun, period (if you nerf this in pve, you will get massive amounts of complaints trust me, this skill, shortbow 5 is an iconic skill for thiefs that works well in most scenario’s, but still has bugs. Remove how it works now, and thief will basically use it’s most important class feature (yet more important then F1 who is useless half of time, especially untraited). Doing so, will just make the game closer to a boring 1 kill 2, 2 kill 3, 3 kill 1 (exceptions are not there anymore, you only counter your depending rock paper scissors weakness).

see below

Aomine.5012:

So your intention of this post is to bring people into awareness of how weak thief and mesmer is..

Hmmm…. Maybe we’re playing a different game. (Looking at ranger)

It has nothing to do with how “weak” a character is. The gameplay revolving porting is broken.

If that is fixed, maybe then if thief ans mesmer are truly broken(lol@the thief comment though)and need buffs, they’ll have more of a reason to do so, but they need to remove the improper gameplay elements first.

Winning should come from using the actual mechanics of the characters, not using teleportation to abuse los and terrain.

Using teleportation as a bandaid to keep them in play is NOT the proper way to bring them into the meta. Actually making the viable through buffs is.

remove the baidaid covering up the real proble, fix the real problem and voila… you can now have your classes in a meta.

Not saying about thief, but Z-axix ports is vry big part of zerker (as ‘shatter is tpvp meta) mesmer sustain. It’s part of mesmer attack flow> rare burst and escape. Now – very hard to escape. Not only thieves (they still afford to stick to mesmer), but any classes with jumps and leaps can stick to mesmer…

according to chinese patch: many skills that use teleporting to move the character will not activate if the target is not in range (probably the ones that require target or can deal damage while moving you)

RIP inf. signet/inf. strike?

edgarallanpwn.8739:

remove the baidaid covering up the real proble, fix the real problem and voila… you can now have your classes in a meta.

May be. Or “voila… you can now have all classes with similar fight flow and less diversity”

I hope they standardize port locations so it’s even on both sides of the map.

Although I will concede some port locations may be a little to strong, they cannot seriously make this change without other major balance changes. Balance currently dosent allow for all builds to 1v1 on a flat which isn’t how the game is balanced around but is a factor when rotating points. However terrain is some of the only way to get momentum against tanker targets who can just beat on squishes on point without a care.

Other DPS builds like medi guard would need a nerf to their meditation heals, and perhaps make their shelter interuptable. Then consider after those changes if more setup into burst is neessiaty. <- the natural sustain is the compensation for the lack of mobility outside of gap closers. (Although I personally believe they get too much sustain it makes sense why they have it.)

Zerk Eles would need more setup before bursting, which is a shame since it’s already balanced considering how squishy and much harder to drop aggro. But imagen a thief or mes couldn’t reposition on heavy pressure without vital c/ds that only give the opponent more momentum? (Arguably giving thief a taste of its own medicine lol xD)

All current sustained celestial builds would need a proper damage nerf. Out healing Zerker damage while doing decent damage ON POINT, is already an unfair match up. Take away Z-axis momentum then what?

And condi builds would have to drop a defensive stat or have arbitrary application caps, or over all duration reductions. This being another tanky DPS matchup where on a flat inability to reposition or use the terrain makes glass builds worthless.

Heading into an expansion I think we’re setting up a significant state of imbalance when it’s already a large influx of imba counters. Unless that is the specializations significantly change things or stronghold becomes the standard game type with a meta that forces builds into more even ground between majority of matchups.

THAT ALL BEING SAID! I do think things like infil strike, judges intervention, and I-leap (even if it’s the only one with a tell) should properly respect line of sight.

Mak.2657:

edgarallanpwn.8739:

remove the baidaid covering up the real proble, fix the real problem and voila… you can now have your classes in a meta.

May be. Or “voila… you can now have all classes with similar fight flow and less diversity”

balance does not = boring

^ starcraft is pretty balanced for 1v1s and it’s one of the most enjoyable games to watch.

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

Mak.2657:

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

ronpierce.2760:

Mak.2657:

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

Well I was for this change even though its a pretty big nerf to necro and is to thief and mesmer too. As these are the non-celestial classes I thought they would accompany this nerf with a nerf to celestial amulet. Looks like they aren’t though. So the change probably sucks.

ronpierce.2760:

Mak.2657:

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

Correct. Also, if you build PURE GLASS CANNON, and complain when you have trouble taking on most builds that aren’t able to be bursted down because they were smart enough to take defensive utilities, then that’s YOUR fault, not the games, not balance.

Playing a zerker has very specific advantages, and clear disadvantages.

If you don’t like them, or aren’t skilled enough to use it properly, then maybe you need to change your build. This isn’t pve, it’s not the same mindless patterns over and over.

Lordrosicky.5813:

ronpierce.2760:

Mak.2657:

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

Well I was for this change even though its a pretty big nerf to necro and is to thief and mesmer too. As these are the non-celestial classes I thought they would accompany this nerf with a nerf to celestial amulet. Looks like they aren’t though. So the change probably sucks.

It nerfs Cele Ele’s lightning flash, right? Seems like a flat ‘honest’ adjustment across the board. The thing to remember is that this isn’t necessarily a ‘balance patch’. It’s a pavement patch, getting us used to mechanics as they will be in HoT. That is, it also has the stability changes.

Things might feel wonky for a little bit, but regardless of your class, Necro, thief, mesmer, it’s healthier for the game. Balance works best when its not balanced around bugs/exploits/unintended behaviors. And for good reason, v-porting wasn’t intended.

ronpierce.2760:

Lordrosicky.5813:

ronpierce.2760:

Mak.2657:

Most zerkers mesm and thief builds can’t stand on the point. If u remove ability to disengage mass fights and make big(!) buff for sustain for such zerkers (need some buff is already), someone would ask for damage nerf or something similar for these builds. Fights of balanced(?) all-round bruisers on a spot are boring for me anyway. I’m playing mesmer because of his playstyle. Now it could be broken. MB too pessimistic. Will see.

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

Well I was for this change even though its a pretty big nerf to necro and is to thief and mesmer too. As these are the non-celestial classes I thought they would accompany this nerf with a nerf to celestial amulet. Looks like they aren’t though. So the change probably sucks.

It nerfs Cele Ele’s lightning flash, right? Seems like a flat ‘honest’ adjustment across the board. The thing to remember is that this isn’t necessarily a ‘balance patch’. It’s a pavement patch, getting us used to mechanics as they will be in HoT. That is, it also has the stability changes.

Things might feel wonky for a little bit, but regardless of your class, Necro, thief, mesmer, it’s healthier for the game. Balance works best when its not balanced around bugs/exploits/unintended behaviors. And for good reason, v-porting wasn’t intended.

Its a minor cele ele nerf. Very minor and more than outweighed by the thief/mesmer/necro changes.

Thief needs it to get around and stay alive.
Mesmer does too.
Necro needs wurm to port him out or he will die so often. Basically wurm will be useless if these changes are real (need to be within 1200 for it to work. Wurm carries necro survivability…completely carries it because immobalise and cc own a necro.

So its huge, totally huge, for those classes. Ele it wont matter. I think it will just make engi/warrior/ele even better. So that is why I was for the nerf. I thought if they did it they would HAVE TO nerf celestial at the same time. It was the only thing which made sense. I thought not doing this would be so strange that they would 100% do it. Looks like I was wrong and anet are gonna anet again :P

Im fine with it for my mes if they revert sword nerfs.
Edit: aka 2 and 3 cd

ronpierce.2760:

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

But he can’t without wurm porting (some type of z-axis porting). And even zerker necro much tankier then mesm.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Also, if you build PURE GLASS CANNON, and complain when you have trouble taking on most builds that aren’t able to be bursted down because they were smart enough to take defensive utilities, then that’s YOUR fault, not the games, not balance.

Dude, blink (port) IS this best defensive utility now…. And I wasn’t talking about ability to burst down cele builds (that issue is here though). I was talking about survivability of zerker builds and thier fight style.

Regardless of you opinion of this, you have to appreciate the positive in that the skill won’t go on CD if it fails. How many times have I tried a legal port, the skill goes on CD, and I am left in the dust to die? The answer is MANY.

sounds like a wvw hero is mad that he has never come close to competing in spvp because of these “OP teleport spots” that he doesnt know how to use since he doesnt get them in wvw

Mak.2657:

ronpierce.2760:

If a necromancer can do it without v-teleporting a theif can. Lets be honest here. Its really not the end of the world.

But he can’t without wurm porting (some type of z-axis porting). And even zerker necro much tankier then mesm.

edgarallanpwn.8739:

Also, if you build PURE GLASS CANNON, and complain when you have trouble taking on most builds that aren’t able to be bursted down because they were smart enough to take defensive utilities, then that’s YOUR fault, not the games, not balance.

Dude, blink (port) IS this best defensive utility now…. And I wasn’t talking about ability to burst down cele builds (that issue is here though). I was talking about survivability of zerker builds and thier fight style.

Using LoS with a teleport is a defensive mechanism yes,. but an abusive one. Aka why its getting nerfed. Both classes have other defensive mechanisms that could be buffed.

And bursting cele’s isn’t a problem. Expecting you to be full zerker and being able to burst every build automatically is. AGAIN…zerker is what it is. Clear advantages, clear downsides. You want the best of both worlds, and that’s UNBALANCED. Cele’s are neither 1) too tanky 2) do too much dmg 3) have too much sustain.

It’s a balanced trinket with rounded stats, for a….. balanced build. PvP builds are never meant to be pure statted. It’s just not viable. There’s too many unknown variables.

Booms.2594:

sounds like a wvw hero is mad that he has never come close to competing in spvp because of these “OP teleport spots” that he doesnt know how to use since he doesnt get them in wvw

You mean the wvw heroes who would wreck you?

Abusive or not it’s almost the only reliable way for zerk to survive in mass fight

Mak.2657:

Abusive or not it’s almost the only reliable way for zerk to survive in mass fight

That still doesn’t make it ok.

And zerker by definition is pretty much a glass cannon. They’re not meant to be able to survive a mass fight. That would be broken.

Jaxom.7310:

i lik win enemy is down, n a mez creates portal, blinks away, drops the other end, ports back to u, starts finisher, ports away, an den ports back on u to finish u. thats fun

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure there’s a delay on using portal repeatedly that prevents this from working anymore.

Mak.2657:

Abusive or not it’s almost the only reliable way for zerk to survive in mass fight

Thieves have just as many if not more tools than most zerkers for survival or hit and run. Aside from guardians which have a totally separate defense (blocks), Rangers/Power necros/Some warriors etc pull it off with less going for them in a general sense.

Point being, this is an overly generalized statement, and completely untrue considering there aren’t even THAT many thieves who understand how to abuse it, and they’re still prefectly fine. Instead of porting up a cliff, tp to the base of the cliff and LOS a split second later, it won’t be that different. The major difference is the difference in mobility between nodes, and in that case, good riddance. Not being able to teleport up a cliff doesn’t make a teleport magically useless… To suggest it does is being a bit overly dramatic…

Trey Enma.7851:

Jaxom.7310:

i lik win enemy is down, n a mez creates portal, blinks away, drops the other end, ports back to u, starts finisher, ports away, an den ports back on u to finish u. thats fun

I might be wrong, but I’m pretty sure there’s a delay on using portal repeatedly that prevents this from working anymore.

They can do it with blink, but I still don’t really think its that big of a deal. Its more utility intensive, harder to pull off and less safe than Mist Form/Elixir stomping (ugh).