Guild Wars 2

ronpierce.2760:

If you want to play glass, take the risk involved.

We are talking about classes, that have not ability to stay or hold point (not about medi guardian). But they have some mobility in exchange. And they are not too meta state (mb 1 thief because of map mobility, but much less mesm). Some kind of bruisers take 3-4 slots in team. Now by loosing this advantage (= more risk, less reward?) we are all coming to drab battles of sumo fighters on the spot? Or total drop stealth like classes in favor sword warrs (or other classes with remaining mobility)?
Ok, it’ just grumbling.

Mak.2657:

ronpierce.2760:

If you want to play glass, take the risk involved.

We are talking about classes, that have not ability to stay or hold point (not about medi guardian). But they have some mobility in exchange. And they are not too meta state (mb 1 thief because of map mobility, but much less mesm). Some kind of bruisers take 3-4 slots in team. Now by loosing this advantage (= more risk, less reward?) we are all coming to drab battles of sumo fighters on the spot? Or total drop stealth like classes in favor sword warrs (or other classes with remaining mobility)?
Ok, it’ just grumbling.

no point arguing with them using logic. this is the internet.

they just want to hurt the game with their ignorance.

if, god forbid’ a dev is reading these posts, all i’ll say is if you listen to this handful of people there will be major backlash when the majority experience the change.

port is ‘cheap’, complaints should be treated in the same category as ‘stealth op’ and ‘remove downstate’ threads…….

So many people complaining about if it was intentional or unintentional and I feel that this needs to be pointed out to them. Because something is not intentional at the start does not mean that it’s broken and or bad design. Combos in Street Fighter 2 were originally not intended to exist and it was only after players played around were they discovered at all. Sometimes players know better than the creators of the game, and one should take a glance at some of the intended things in GW2 and realize just how badly designed they are (Power Block Mesmer vs Thief for a quick example).

Yeah. Unintentional =\= broken or bad. Not always at least.

If the argument point is that vertical axis teleports was “unintended”, then when is the range threshold going to get fixed. Skills in this game operate by an intended units threshold to connect and deal damage. However quite a handful of them goes beyond that threshold giving those skills an “unintended advantage”.

The people supporting argument to this fix/balance seem to forget that the game operates on a three dimensional level meaning there is a X, Y and Z axis. If there wasn’t any elevation design in the game, it would be perfectly reasonable explanation. Then something as simple as jumping/leap skills should be disabled too, since it will allow you to reach “unintended” terrain advantage.

I believe the problem has more to do with bypassing line of sight than whether or not shadowstep/blinks are allowing you go to elevated positions. Skills should need a line of sight to function, and by becoming blocked by a obstacle should prevent its activation. This will be more of a consistency factor than “nerfing” teleportations.

Edit: It could be rebalancing towards very specific skills: Infiltrator’s signet, Judge’s Intervention, Flashing blade etc. I believe these few skills were mentioned in the Chinese patch notes.

Akikaze.1307:

If the argument point is that vertical axis teleports was “unintended”, then when is the range threshold going to get fixed. Skills in this game operate by an intended units threshold to connect and deal damage. However quite a handful of them goes beyond that threshold giving those skills an “unintended advantage”.

The distance traveled by ranged projectiles is working as intended. It mitigates the influence of latency on these skills.

I feel removing vertical teleport spots is a positive change and doubt it will be as significant as many here make it out to be.

This is what I don’t understand. Why does projectile distance and so on néed to be brought up here? There is no reason to discuss every other issue in the game to agree that something completely irrelevant to those things needs fixed, or in this case, expressing happiness for changes to fix something. Long how does sail further than it should, but that has no point in a discussion about a separate issue being fixed. I shouldn’t need to go down my list of bugs and quirky things just to have an opinion on one thing.

Also, on the same token as “just because it wasn’t intended doesn’t make it bad design”, just because it went fixed promptly, doesn’t make it okay. Vertical rules existed for a very good reason from a design perspective. Vertical teleporting gives people free disengages against enemies (which are most) that don’t have them. The game is designed around people dying and travel times. Every “skillful juke” done by exploiting a virtical teleport that the enemy can’t do buys you about 18-20 seconds of respawn time and 15-25 seconds of traveling back, in which time you can be decapping or assisting someone. When only a handful of builds can do this, it shouldn’t be hard to see the impact it has.

That said, if survival IS the issue, like many claim, then let them take steps to fix that after they get rid of exploitable teleporting. They can’t fix a class as long as they have easy get out of jail cards. So in reality, supporting your exploits is only holding your classes back.

I’ll say it again, there’s nothing skillful about learning a few exploitable spots. More times than not it removes the need for skill to escape dangerous situations or abuse map travel for cap stealing, which acts as a crutch for players. No one learns to play the game better by having easy escapes. If anything the lose value of being pressured. If thieves end up having massive troubles after this, it really speaks to how much of a crutch an exploit actually was. Part of playing a berserker is knowing when to disengage, but if you can do that at any point with a simple instant teleport well out of reach of a majority of players, you’re not really learning that.

And having these out of jail free cards really has more of an impact on games than people think. A death is 5 points, and a while of being removed from the battle. These failsafe plays add or very quickly towards skewing results.

Mak.2657:

" i shouldn’t have"
Again, who define what I should or what I shouldn’t have? You?

The devs.

Muchacho.2390:

ronpierce.2760:

lighter.2708:

tbh i think it affect less thief compare to mesmer.

thief has a tons of ways to avoid being focused other then abusing blink spots.
but it’s not the same for mesmer.

Like I said before. I MUCH prefer them balance the game forward without consideration of bugs and exploits. Technically speaking, balancing around bugs can often lead to them not buffing other weapons and defenses in general because clutch escapes on top of acceptable defenses would be incredibly OP for obvious reasons. HoT has a chance to fix a lot of past issues and I think that’s what they’re doing. Right now they’re laying down some pavement to move forward. One fix doesn’t mean nothing else can change with it.

I agree with that. Anet should fix exploits and bugs and if this causes certain professions to become too weak, rebalancing them is the better way to go.

Not according to many board geniuses. BS is totally acceptable if it helps make a class competitve. That mindset gives a free pass to lazy developers as far as I am concerned. There were always be classes that are considered either weak or strong at some point. Anything not intended should be fixed ASAP regardless of that kind of consideration.

During the preview for courtyard devs brought up vertical ports implying their intention. After seeing more footage of stronghold blink plays will still exist just some obviously unintended ones are probably going to be removed. (Or try are fixing single targeted teleports)

So your opponent porting to the back of henge is going to stay, but Prob won’t see people exploiting up the stairs towards keep. (From the other side of the wall)

Typical Z axis ports are not an exploit.

I like to call these “trollolports”

troll-lol-ports

Because that’s what they are. They are terrain glitches that make no sense, and give needless advantage through bug abuse.

Trollolports are being deleted from the game because bugs do not belong in this game.

Warrs incoming! Non-teleport classes hate as expected, not much unbiased discussion.
Not intended, bug, glitch, exploit. the devs (), broken, needless, l2p.
“Spice must flow!”

Mak.2657:

Warrs incoming! Non-teleport classes hate as expected, not much unbiased discussion.
Not intended, bug, glitch, exploit. the devs (), broken, needless, l2p.
“Spice must flow!”

And your “teleporters MUST have this or they’ll be doomed to be broken for lyfe!” is somehow less biased than concerns of legitimacy and design?

could someone please link the post that stated port changes.
thanks.

I only note current state of game from my position (zerk mesmer expirience). So can be biased too. But try to understand me. Even 1 jail-free card on 40(32) sec CD given to mesmer now not doing this class desirable. Mesmer squishines, low sustain, mostly predictable burst, lack of ability to hold point/ stay in spot fight, necessity in team care\peeling, etc. That blink doesn’t make mesm OP in tpvp any way. It’s part of hit-and-run tactic. And now this… Hit-and-die?
As I said buffs only supposed. And even if anet will implement some buffs – don’t this result in less play styles? IDK.
I admit I can be wrong, but don’t like removing such tweak from “swift” playstyle.

Mak.2657:

I only note current state of game from my position (zerk mesmer expirience). So can be biased too. But try to understand me. Even 1 jail-free card on 40(32) sec CD given to mesmer now not doing this class desirable. Mesmer squishines, low sustain, mostly predictable burst, lack of ability to hold point/ stay in spot fight, necessity in team care\peeling, etc. That blink doesn’t make mesm OP in tpvp any way. It’s part of hit-and-run tactic. And now this… Hit-and-die?
As I said buffs only supposed. And even if anet will implement some buffs – don’t this result in less play styles? IDK.
I admit I can be wrong, but don’t like removing such tweak from “swift” playstyle.

If I’m not mistaken, the bigger issue is staff blink which like what, a 10 second cd, acting as a disengage similarly if used in the right spots.

Yep, staff blink is good disengage tool, but not even close to usual utility blink (consider of liability and area of use). Distance, no choice of direction when rooted/ stunned/ knocked. That s why blink and decoy almost are “must have” utility skills to survive.

Mak.2657:

Yep, staff blink is good disengage tool, but not even close to usual utility blink (consider of liability and area of use). Distance, no choice of direction when rooted/ stunned/ knocked. That s why blink and decoy almost are “must have” utility skills to survive.

Ask yourself this: Do you want to play a class that depends on terrain glitches and bugs in order to succeed?

That’s really it.

Progress must begin somewhere. Today a glitch is fixed. Tomorrow a class is fixed.

zone.1073:

Mak.2657:

Yep, staff blink is good disengage tool, but not even close to usual utility blink (consider of liability and area of use). Distance, no choice of direction when rooted/ stunned/ knocked. That s why blink and decoy almost are “must have” utility skills to survive.

Ask yourself this: Do you want to play a class that depends on terrain glitches and bugs in order to succeed?

That’s really it.

Progress must begin somewhere. Today a glitch is fixed. Tomorrow a class is fixed.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, omg my sides, good joke. If Anet would ever fix/make up for port change it would be at least 1 year into xpac (based on patches so far)…. i am sure thief/mes/guard players are looking foward being garbage in pvp for next 1.5 years.

I think we can all agree on that intended or not, bug or not, exploit or not, these classes that are able to port the way they do, have been balanced around the ability to do so.

You don’t address a balance issue, cause in this case this is what is at stake, without addressing possible ways of compensating for the nerfs you make during the process.

It would be like “from tomorrow we’ll remove warriors’ healing signet as it turned out to be OP with celestial stats.” without any further explanation

I’m not upset only because I’m playing mesmer and this change will cripple the class beyond measures.
I’m upset, cause they say nothing about how they’ll compensate for this huge hit these classes will take.

Judging by their balancing history, they either:
- don’t know it yet
- don’t think there should be any kind of compensation.

THIS is what makes me slightly upset.

glorius.1235:

I think we can all agree on that intended or not, bug or not, exploit or not, these classes that are able to port the way they do, have been balanced around the ability to do so.

You don’t address a balance issue, cause in this case this is what is at stake, without addressing possible ways of compensating for the nerfs you make during the process.

It would be like “from tomorrow we’ll remove warriors’ healing signet as it turned out to be OP with celestial stats.” without any further explanation

I’m not upset only because I’m playing mesmer and this change will cripple the class beyond measures.
I’m upset, cause they say nothing about how they’ll compensate for this huge hit these classes will take.

Judging by their balancing history, they either:
- don’t know it yet
- don’t think there should be any kind of compensation.

THIS is what makes me slightly upset.

I really don’t think you can “balance” around get out of jail free cards against many popular classes/builds. Its not balance so much as it is a coping mechanic. In a sink of swim, people tend to swim though. Take this away and they’ll find new juke corners, something a bit more “legal” and will be perfectly fine. People who played it because they like abusing silly mechanics might fall off but thats fine.

That said, hopefully they do give them some love if they end up too squishy (for the reward involved, not in general. Zerkers are supposed to be).

ronpierce.2760:

glorius.1235:

I think we can all agree on that intended or not, bug or not, exploit or not, these classes that are able to port the way they do, have been balanced around the ability to do so.

You don’t address a balance issue, cause in this case this is what is at stake, without addressing possible ways of compensating for the nerfs you make during the process.

It would be like “from tomorrow we’ll remove warriors’ healing signet as it turned out to be OP with celestial stats.” without any further explanation

I’m not upset only because I’m playing mesmer and this change will cripple the class beyond measures.
I’m upset, cause they say nothing about how they’ll compensate for this huge hit these classes will take.

Judging by their balancing history, they either:
- don’t know it yet
- don’t think there should be any kind of compensation.

THIS is what makes me slightly upset.

I really don’t think you can “balance” around get out of jail free cards against many popular classes/builds. Its not balance so much as it is a coping mechanic. In a sink of swim, people tend to swim though. Take this away and they’ll find new juke corners, something a bit more “legal” and will be perfectly fine. People who played it because they like abusing silly mechanics might fall off but thats fine.

That said, hopefully they do give them some love if they end up too squishy (for the reward involved, not in general. Zerkers are supposed to be).

You actually believe that Anet would change anything for those classes after port patch? Are you new to this game? I am just curious.

In my view, people kittening about Mesmer or Thief simply don’t have experience in PvP. I’d appreciate it if people actually tried out ideas before presenting them here.

Lol, people really think thief mesmer and guard will be completely out of the meta..just because they removed a glitch spot here and there.
mesmer, maybe, because they will get hunted by thief more..
but others? not really..either you are just super exagrating or you are just out of your mind.

Aomine.5012:

I find it funny that people kept saying their mesmer/ thief will be destroyed, but truth is very VERY FEW of the player-base can really utilize this advantage like some of the top streamers do. All they can do is use it as an exploit in Kyhlo map to fast travel all parts of map. They don’t use it like some of the most skillful and knowledgable thieves and mesmers, to use all those small ledges to avoid damage.

This “fix” will affect way less than people try to make it be because they don’t even play like those top streamers to begin with. The only difference will probably be just Kyhlo, where people learn those cheap spots to fast travel the ledges.

top streamers lol…much wow, most top players don’t even stream you know..

ronpierce.2760:

glorius.1235:

I think we can all agree on that intended or not, bug or not, exploit or not, these classes that are able to port the way they do, have been balanced around the ability to do so.

You don’t address a balance issue, cause in this case this is what is at stake, without addressing possible ways of compensating for the nerfs you make during the process.

It would be like “from tomorrow we’ll remove warriors’ healing signet as it turned out to be OP with celestial stats.” without any further explanation

I’m not upset only because I’m playing mesmer and this change will cripple the class beyond measures.
I’m upset, cause they say nothing about how they’ll compensate for this huge hit these classes will take.

Judging by their balancing history, they either:
- don’t know it yet
- don’t think there should be any kind of compensation.

THIS is what makes me slightly upset.

I really don’t think you can “balance” around get out of jail free cards against many popular classes/builds. Its not balance so much as it is a coping mechanic. In a sink of swim, people tend to swim though. Take this away and they’ll find new juke corners, something a bit more “legal” and will be perfectly fine. People who played it because they like abusing silly mechanics might fall off but thats fine.

That said, hopefully they do give them some love if they end up too squishy (for the reward involved, not in general. Zerkers are supposed to be).

no love for mesmers they have clones already

Cit Average forum’s user

Get out of jail free cards? This isn’t monopoly. Seriously though, Mesmer and thief are both based on stealth and deception.

It doesn’t make sense to keep nerfing exactly those moves. The port spots aren’t really a huge advantage inasmuch as they are very situational.

Both Mesmer and Thief are red headed step children.. first to get the nerf bat. It’s time for war and guard to be easy kills for a few months.

Back then Quickness what was made Warrior somehow viable back when it was 100% attack speed increase. Right now apparently it is the same analogy for Thief and Mesmer where abusing vertical range is what makes them viable.

The difference between the two is that Warrior back in the days was completely crippled by the incompetent nerf for Quickness because EVERYONE knew that they would need heavy compensation after the Quickness nerf.

Thief and Mesmer on the other hand will need to wait whether they will need that compensation or not because I don’t believe that this nerf will make them completely useless when the nerf happens as soon as the patch hits.

BlackTruth.6813:

Back then Quickness what was made Warrior somehow viable back when it was 100% attack speed increase. Right now apparently it is the same analogy for Thief and Mesmer where abusing vertical range is what makes them viable.

The difference between the two is that Warrior back in the days was completely crippled by the incompetent nerf for Quickness because EVERYONE knew that they would need heavy compensation after the Quickness nerf.

Thief and Mesmer on the other hand will need to wait whether they will need that compensation or not because I don’t believe that this nerf will make them completely useless when the nerf happens as soon as the patch hits.

If they had only hit the quickness on frenzy then you might have add something there, but the warrior community has a habit of claiming every universal change in the game is a direct nerf to that profession. As the player base improved that took out a lot of strength of the aforementioned play style.

I agree with those saying that if you think Mes/Teef HAVE to have this terrain bug in order to be viable that the problem is with the class, not the change. Also, not every map allows for this sort of bug to happen. I play my fair share of Mesmer, and while not a perfect class I never felt I HAD to abuse these spots in order to sustain. It’s all about knowing when to pop your invuln and use it to get out of danger with whatever you have available.

While there are games that have had unintended features become a staple of the game doesn’t mean that ALL exploits should follow this path.

Bran.7425:

BlackTruth.6813:

Back then Quickness what was made Warrior somehow viable back when it was 100% attack speed increase. Right now apparently it is the same analogy for Thief and Mesmer where abusing vertical range is what makes them viable.

The difference between the two is that Warrior back in the days was completely crippled by the incompetent nerf for Quickness because EVERYONE knew that they would need heavy compensation after the Quickness nerf.

Thief and Mesmer on the other hand will need to wait whether they will need that compensation or not because I don’t believe that this nerf will make them completely useless when the nerf happens as soon as the patch hits.

If they had only hit the quickness on frenzy then you might have add something there, but the warrior community has a habit of claiming every universal change in the game is a direct nerf to that profession. As the player base improved that took out a lot of strength of the aforementioned play style.

The Quickness nerf + the Berserker’s Power/Heightened Focus move hurt Warriors DPS capability, but that change gave way to buffs that made the class viable. Then, the Ferocity change nerfed the pure power DPS once more. This is when Wars started getting more and more locked into Cele/Longbow.

So, while the changes did affect other classes, you can’t deny that War variety has been steadily taking hits. Most builds are just minor variants of others.

this isn’t about balance. don’t make this about balance. this thread is about limiting gameplay, and people that just want to play deathmatch and/or warriors voicing their support.

Phaeton.9582:

this isn’t about balance. don’t make this about balance. this thread is about limiting gameplay, and people that just want to play deathmatch and/or warriors voicing their support.

Well the developers are potentially choosing to limit game play, and that is a option completely in the purview. If/when the change comes it will just be another thing to adapt to, or those that find it to be a deal breaker can just leave.

Phaeton.9582:

this isn’t about balance. don’t make this about balance. this thread is about limiting gameplay, and people that just want to play deathmatch and/or warriors voicing their support.

What? Limiting gameplay? Did you seriously just use such a fail argument? High level play is also pidgeon holed into having an Ele because in Foefire, for example, they can blink through ledges AND watch points effectively or decap effectively because of it.

You’re saying the vertical range teleport doesn’t enforce the meta in a sense? Please.

Also, you’re saying that vertical range teleport is balanced? Okay let’s give Warrior and Engi’s a high jump.

You’re just worked up because you won’t be able to abuse broken mechanics anymore Phaeton. And I don’t believe you were ever good on your Warrior back in the Quickness days to know “what is high skill cap” and what isn’t. Smart move to re-roll into Guardian.

BlackTruth.6813:

Phaeton.9582:

this isn’t about balance. don’t make this about balance. this thread is about limiting gameplay, and people that just want to play deathmatch and/or warriors voicing their support.

What? Limiting gameplay? Did you seriously just use such a fail argument? High level play is also pidgeon holed into having an Ele because in Foefire, for example, they can blink through ledges AND watch points effectively or decap effectively because of it.

You’re saying the vertical range teleport doesn’t enforce the meta in a sense? Please.

Also, you’re saying that vertical range teleport is balanced? Okay let’s give Warrior and Engi’s a high jump.

You’re just worked up because you won’t be able to abuse broken mechanics anymore Phaeton. And I don’t believe you were ever good on your Warrior back in the Quickness days to know “what is high skill cap” and what isn’t. Smart move to re-roll into Guardian.

Part of me now wants to see stomp be a skill similar to Engi Rifle 5 but have the vertical takeoff be really high.

This change will benefit pvp in this game because:

1, like others have said the current blink mechanic to bypass routes between points limits the meta. It means ele is the only back point defender which really works because they can use their blink to bypass map geography in a similar way as other eles or thieves.

2, it will make the game more combat and team fight focussed and less about using blinks to run and stand on empty points. This will make most people enjoy pvp more as most people play pvp to fight other players.

Thus, in conclusion, this change would make MORE specs an comps viable. And it will make pvp more based around combat. Both of which will be good things.

is there an actual post stating these changes or is this entire post based on hearsay?

These changes were in the Chinese patches notes as well as the current HoT demo.

BlackTruth.6813:

And I don’t believe you were ever good on your Warrior back in the Quickness days to know “what is high skill cap” and what isn’t. Smart move to re-roll into Guardian.

thanks for the feedback man. i’d mention your 2012 gameplay but i ’m not sure who this is XD

Booms.2594:

voices besides “FIGHT ON NODE SO I CAN BANNA U” ofcourse

kitten, i would take multiple small (fixable) mistakes over your GAME throwing ones.

I dunno, it’s weird, the majority of teleports work in the same way, there are less teleports in the first ledge on khylo from some position (you can teleport on the roof) but u get the message if you can’t teleport so you don’t waste initiative/utility.

Infiltrator’s strike works well and thief can teleport on you without LoS, there are other weird teleports like a temple in temple, where you can teleport on left ledge but not on right ledge (wut??) or legacy quarry where you can teleport on the ledge from some position but not other position really closed, and probably other stuff i didn’t try.

I dunno honestly if it’s intended or not.

z-axis ports (vertical teleports) an not an exploit and this proves it.

@those who faught and argued so hard for it.

More Humble: clearly you were mistaken, the balance of the game includes these types of plays, I agree certain things may be a bit strong perhaps certain targeted teleports should require line of sight, but z axis plays are balanced as it should be. and hopefully there is an understanding on how low risk builds being able to sit on point is the default advantage over glass.

Elitist while being a jerk: LOL kittening scrubs arguing for so long. What? Your no skill, no setup, tanky DPS cleave not enough to carry you bads? You need to fight for so long justifying a hard nerf to glass builds? Get rekt. Stop ruining GW2, the meta, and the skill cap.

Infiltrator’s Arrow seems to be kind of random in whether it takes your initiative before telling you a port is not possible or not. Major ports I checked on Foefire were still possible, will test more later. Max FoV seems really nice.

Not tested yet but seems gj anet!

Firebird.8324:

That would be awesome, I think those port spots are bullkitten anyways

“Yes! Please nerf thieves and mesmers so my power necros have no counter! maybe then we will not lose to hard— on esports!”

My friends and I are testing the ports. It seems mesmer’s blink has been untouched. If a port seems possible to do (green reticle) but the pathing is wrong, it will still teleport you forward a inch or so and will go on full cooldown. Very disappointing imo. It seems actually hard to find the port spots that are now not working for thief. (mesmer really seems untouched)

edit: Forest’s ports at mid point are way easier to do now for both thief and mesmer. You can teleport from anywhere to the top ledges (you can use ileap/phase retreat as well)

Kitta.3657:

edit: Forest’s ports at mansion are way easier to do now for both thief and mesmer. You can teleport from anywhere to the top ledges (you can use ileap/phase retreat as well)

Mansion is in Khylo.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

Kitta.3657:

edit: Forest’s ports at mansion are way easier to do now for both thief and mesmer. You can teleport from anywhere to the top ledges (you can use ileap/phase retreat as well)

Mansion is in Khylo.

Names. I don’t remember them by their names. Mid point in Forest then is what I meant.

Alright, seems mesmer blink is unchanged when it is traited but has been affected by the warning when not traited.