Guild Wars 2

chibi.2537:

I blindly voted yes because it’s at least some kind of change. But when I saw that no has more votes I was relieved.
Profession locking is not the real problem. Real problem is profession stacking. Matchmaking should be reworked to put together teams with 5 different professions with maybe a limit to 2 per armor weight class. Or 2 same proffesions but still a limit to 2 per armor weight class. Those restrictions could work with profession locking.

There’s multiple issues here, and the dev listed a few of them on the front page. It all just boils down to this:

• True MMR – Matchmaking is the very backbone of how your mmr is governed. So when matchmaking is pooling professions out of a given pool and ordering them by rating/mmr, well, you just threw that calculation in the gutter by swapping pre-game or mid-game to another class that may not have the same skill level. This (among other items) just skews the system up, making your rating not exactly where it should be. It’s why the volatility is so huge… it must be minimized.

The real problem is not profession stacking… The issue has always been Matchmaking.

Saiyan.1704:

chibi.2537:

I blindly voted yes because it’s at least some kind of change. But when I saw that no has more votes I was relieved.
Profession locking is not the real problem. Real problem is profession stacking. Matchmaking should be reworked to put together teams with 5 different professions with maybe a limit to 2 per armor weight class. Or 2 same proffesions but still a limit to 2 per armor weight class. Those restrictions could work with profession locking.

There’s multiple issues here, and the dev listed a few of them on the front page. It all just boils down to this:

• True MMR – Matchmaking is the very backbone of how your mmr is governed. So when matchmaking is pooling professions out of a given pool and ordering them by rating/mmr, well, you just threw that calculation in the gutter by swapping pre-game or mid-game to another class that may not have the same skill level. This (among other items) just skews the system up, making your rating not exactly where it should be. It’s why the volatility is so huge… it must be minimized.

The real problem is not profession stacking… The issue has always been Matchmaking.

Profession stacking is MAIN problem. 2 matches.
Match 1. Enemy team setup: 2 warriors 2 guards 1 engi vs my tean setup 3 druids (one of them is me) 1 ele 1 thief. What i can do with this cleave setup? Why me or some1 forced to swap class? We have no chance to win teamfight with 4 supports (druids mb half support). We cant rotate them. Killing 1 of them will take long time so there will be +1 or +2 after some time. Warrior, guard, engi is fine. I dont think any1 of this prof. is op.

Match 2. Enemy team setup: 2 necro 2 ele + dont remember vs my team 2 druids 1 ele 1 thief 1 guard. So teamfight NO chance against 2 necro 2 ele on one spot. Again my team full of supports. We cant bypass this amount of heal from 2 ele while focusing necro. Focus ele u got focused down by 2 necro. Again this game 80% lost because of setup, not ppl.

This team setups not equal. Why ppl forced to switch classes? If i dont want to swap i deserve bad game?
Sorry for my bad English

Evan Lesh.3295:

bsandro.7428:

Does it mean that class swithing during the match will be unavailable in both cases?

Yes. We will disallow swapping characters once the 10 second countdown begins. This prevents things like playing 95% of a match and then swapping for profession achievements.

Have you guys considered a middle ground where players cannot swap to a class already selected by another player on the same team to prevent class-stacking while still allowing counter-comping?

Grant Gertz.7524:

A message from the PvP Team,
A poll regarding profession locking in PvP is up!
https://feedback.guildwars2.com
Please share your thoughts and feedback on the poll in this thread!

From a statistician’s point of view:

Please include the number of observations n in the poll’s results.
And the amount of people being part of the active player base.
This would give some information about bias of your little survey.

Other than that, it is a great idea to further get player’s opinion on matters that matter
Cheers

Chase.8415:

It’s not uncommon for people to know how to play 2 or 3 classes. But take me for example, I play all 9. I love playing all classes, but I simply can’t with the current ranking system.

I’d argue people swap a lot less than you make it to be. They know exactly how many people swap in all rating brackets. And I am wiolling to bet that the matchmaking will show that those who swap classes cause unfavorable matches (I.E the system said 50% chance to win, but because they swapped, they lost 60% of the time, etc)

Even people in legendary ratings have main classes.

A legendary elementalist is going to perform better than someone who alts an elementalist at the same rating; do you see what I am getting at here? It makes perfect sense, someone who has thousands of hours on one class is going to do better than someone who hasn’t spent the same time.

I mean you’re not wrong, not everyone swaps and not everyone can play at the same level obviously for all their characters.

The problem I have with voting yes is that it will create games where I have slim chances of winning due to the comp which is also out of my control. Say for example I get 3 necros who refuse to swap, I could at least go swap to an ele and support them and pray to god the other side doesn’t know how to rotate but if they lock comps and I’m stuck with 3 necros then it’s RIP for my team unless I get lucky.

Until the devs can come up with a good reasoning/way such that these situations don’t happen I see no reason to support giving the matchmaking system more power over my matches. A balanced comp makes winning a LOT easier compared to weird comps that have no support even if there is no class stacking. The meta also shifts a lot depending on balance and as such no algorithm will be able to predict correctly how to balance team comps.

This matters even at a lower level where people complain eles are unkillable or DH is OP. What if the matchmaking system doesn’t give you any Eles or DHs but the other side has Ele and DH? Nothing you can do about it either since you can’t swap classes.

@ Evan Lesh
If YES wins:

• Make sure to create a Build Templates option in the pvp build panel so we can adapt to our team composition without changing class completely;
• Increase build diversity. Right now we still have 1 viable build x class (max 2 with certain classes);

In my opinion this game is not ready for a change like this yet.

fishball.7204:

Chase.8415:

It’s not uncommon for people to know how to play 2 or 3 classes. But take me for example, I play all 9. I love playing all classes, but I simply can’t with the current ranking system.

I’d argue people swap a lot less than you make it to be. They know exactly how many people swap in all rating brackets. And I am wiolling to bet that the matchmaking will show that those who swap classes cause unfavorable matches (I.E the system said 50% chance to win, but because they swapped, they lost 60% of the time, etc)

Even people in legendary ratings have main classes.

A legendary elementalist is going to perform better than someone who alts an elementalist at the same rating; do you see what I am getting at here? It makes perfect sense, someone who has thousands of hours on one class is going to do better than someone who hasn’t spent the same time.

I mean you’re not wrong, not everyone swaps and not everyone can play at the same level obviously for all their characters.

The problem I have with voting yes is that it will create games where I have slim chances of winning due to the comp which is also out of my control. Say for example I get 3 necros who refuse to swap, I could at least go swap to an ele and support them and pray to god the other side doesn’t know how to rotate but if they lock comps and I’m stuck with 3 necros then it’s RIP for my team unless I get lucky.

Until the devs can come up with a good reasoning/way such that these situations don’t happen I see no reason to support giving the matchmaking system more power over my matches. A balanced comp makes winning a LOT easier compared to weird comps that have no support even if there is no class stacking. The meta also shifts a lot depending on balance and as such no algorithm will be able to predict correctly how to balance team comps.

This matters even at a lower level where people complain eles are unkillable or DH is OP. What if the matchmaking system doesn’t give you any Eles or DHs but the other side has Ele and DH? Nothing you can do about it either since you can’t swap classes.

Well, you have people like Helseth that are so good they can carry an entire game with a single profession and comp does not matter.

I have seen 4 support teams win before.

My team tried to class swap to kill 3 elementalists on other team. We got DESTROYED. Our team lacked the skill on the classes to swap effectively.

Swapping classes made MMR unstable and caused people to not get 50/50 win rate and instead lose 10 matches, win 9, and so on.

And like I said, rate of swapping is low. Teams of 4 guardians, no one swapped in low rating so I don’t follow your example provided…

If they did swap it was pretty much guaranteed loss for me.

This is such an odd request – what exactly are they trying to solve?

Locking class switch will only kill your game further. You can’t even get the match making to seperate 4 eles from 1 team or compensate for those builds involved….

What genius came up with this? Let the esport crap go, 5 years into the game now and as kappa said, the game isnt ready for a change like this and its 5 years too late.

I voted no.

I asked myself a simple thing, Would that change make the game more fun ?

My answer is no. I would rather see other improvements before trying that one out. This season I saw power and condi warriors, greatsword mesmers and condi ones. It seems the power necro was there too…That was fun, diversity is fun. I don’t care to see 2 DH as long as I can tell myself maybe one is burning and the other is trap.

I don’t really like those polls, I mean we all know the problems and the devs too.
I would rather see a poll like this :

We are aware of the following problems and would like to ask our community what they would like as the focus of the next patch :
- Ranked league system
- Build diversity
- Map diversity
- Stronghold improvement

And then something like an official thread with the devs position on the subject. They already have our opinion on most subject there are tons of topics made already.

But I still like the initiative to ask the community

A no on this poll is showing a comunity not looking forward and being selfish …. No means stagnation.
Going for a profession MMR is a base feature to allow moving forward and improve PvP.

I voted yes, on the basis that it would be accompanied by a 1 profession per team cap.

If both of these were implemented it would be a healthy addition to the game.#

I don’t think polling decisions like this is a good idea because good improvements can be missed out on due to an uninformed audience.

Wolfric.9380:

A no on this poll is showing a comunity not looking forward and being selfish …. No means stagnation.
Going for a profession MMR is a base feature to allow moving forward and improve PvP.

Sometimes stagnation is better than shooting yourself in the foot.
Poll is really bad and will not solve anything. If anything, it will introduce mass of other problems that people who votes yes will realise only after it’s implemented (if it gets implemented).
Before they start locking professions they need to deal with many other problems that lead to bad matchups. When those get solved then profession locking will not be question any more as it won’t be needed.
This is just putting bandage on your forehead when you have flu. It’s not really helping, but hey, it looks like progress is being done!

While youre at it. Hide the enemy class icon before the game start and show my own team real class icon (whether he/she have an elite spec equipped or no).

martin.1653:

Wolfric.9380:

A no on this poll is showing a comunity not looking forward and being selfish …. No means stagnation.
Going for a profession MMR is a base feature to allow moving forward and improve PvP.

Sometimes stagnation is better than shooting yourself in the foot.
Poll is really bad and will not solve anything. If anything, it will introduce mass of other problems that people who votes yes will realise only after it’s implemented (if it gets implemented).
Before they start locking professions they need to deal with many other problems that lead to bad matchups. When those get solved then profession locking will not be question any more as it won’t be needed.
This is just putting bandage on your forehead when you have flu. It’s not really helping, but hey, it looks like progress is being done!

Majority of the game focuses on one class and does not swap even when you feel they should. Therefore if they went with yee, the majority of the game would not notice a difference except having a lot more balanced matches and the ability to having ratings for each profession.

Chase.8415:

martin.1653:

Wolfric.9380:

A no on this poll is showing a comunity not looking forward and being selfish …. No means stagnation.
Going for a profession MMR is a base feature to allow moving forward and improve PvP.

Sometimes stagnation is better than shooting yourself in the foot.
Poll is really bad and will not solve anything. If anything, it will introduce mass of other problems that people who votes yes will realise only after it’s implemented (if it gets implemented).
Before they start locking professions they need to deal with many other problems that lead to bad matchups. When those get solved then profession locking will not be question any more as it won’t be needed.
This is just putting bandage on your forehead when you have flu. It’s not really helping, but hey, it looks like progress is being done!

Majority of the game focuses on one class and does not swap even when you feel they should. Therefore if they went with yee, the majority of the game would not notice a difference except having a lot more balanced matches and the ability to having ratings for each profession.

I’m confused how locking professions at queue would improve balance in any way, that means you are letting the MM decide your win/loss based 100% on build. If matchmaking is accurate then you will be playing against equally skilled players, who may or may not happen to be running a DIRECT hardcounter, or X number of the enemy team. That is not balance, that is GAMBLING.

Unless of course you are also one of the people who say profession balance would be “easy” to produce after implementation, which is so incredibly false; it takes how many months for WILD meta shifts and nerf/buff willy nilly? With no proper QA of the changes before being pushed into live play? You REALLY think anet is capable of such a feat as genuinely balanced matches? Have they not shown you enough after 5 seasons and years of incredible UNbalance, that that level of polish escapes them? They cant/wont even fix bugs that could/should have been hotfixed.

I will not be playing s6, for sure. This “addition” to the game (along with several other recent FLOPS of change) has drove me from the game all together. This is after nearly 20k total matches played, and being legend every single season. I’ve taken the hint from the pro scene and jumped ship, there are FOR SURE better pvp games out there, and im having much more FUN, COMPETING, in much more competitive and balanced games.

It is so REJUVINATING to play something other than 3 point koth ad nauseum. The game that currently holds my interest has over 5 game modes, bustling with activity, ranked versions of 4 of those, and oh so many beautiful leaderboards (with distinguishing rewards).

Population and balance matter, GW2 has neither, and the paths that the dev teams are choosing will NEVER bring those 2 things to this game. This is a repeating pattern of slow methodical elimination of a game mode.

Chase.8415:

…
Majority of the game focuses on one class and does not swap even when you feel they should. Therefore if they went with yee, the majority of the game would not notice a difference except having a lot more balanced matches and the ability to having ratings for each profession.

I don’t see how voting ‘Yes’ would improve matchmaking? Because improved matchmaking can be done regardless of lock.

Looks to me that majority of people imagined there’s more to this poll than it really is. There are arguments thrown left and right in this whole thread which are neither related to ‘yes’ or ‘no’, and most of these arguments and changes people seem to ship exclusively with voting for one option, but can be done regardless of end result of the poll.

martin.1653:

Chase.8415:

…
Majority of the game focuses on one class and does not swap even when you feel they should. Therefore if they went with yee, the majority of the game would not notice a difference except having a lot more balanced matches and the ability to having ratings for each profession.

I don’t see how voting ‘Yes’ would improve matchmaking? Because improved matchmaking can be done regardless of lock.

Looks to me that majority of people imagined there’s more to this poll than it really is. There are arguments thrown left and right in this whole thread which are neither related to ‘yes’ or ‘no’, and most of these arguments and changes people seem to ship exclusively with voting for one option, but can be done regardless of end result of the poll.

We got consulted. They asked us our opinion, directly, just like with solo-duo. It does not matter what hidden conspiracy there may be behind it all, the act itself of asking us is nice. I voted YES. I want MMR based on profession, because it will provide developers with an insanely strong feedback regarding what is overpowered (or mostly used) and what is not.

I congratulate ArenaNet. Possibly this is not one of the most important topics regarding balance, but they made an effort of asking us our opinion. I appreciate that, even if it’s not helping me that much, but it’s helping them for statistics and profession MMR. Anything is better than nothing, any change is better than no change at all through a boring game. I like diversity, so I voted YES.

Acrisor.8097:

martin.1653:

Chase.8415:

…
Majority of the game focuses on one class and does not swap even when you feel they should. Therefore if they went with yee, the majority of the game would not notice a difference except having a lot more balanced matches and the ability to having ratings for each profession.

I don’t see how voting ‘Yes’ would improve matchmaking? Because improved matchmaking can be done regardless of lock.

Looks to me that majority of people imagined there’s more to this poll than it really is. There are arguments thrown left and right in this whole thread which are neither related to ‘yes’ or ‘no’, and most of these arguments and changes people seem to ship exclusively with voting for one option, but can be done regardless of end result of the poll.

We got consulted. They asked us our opinion, directly, just like with solo-duo. It does not matter what hidden conspiracy there may be behind it all, the act itself of asking us is nice. I voted YES. I want MMR based on profession, because it will provide developers with an insanely strong feedback regarding what is overpowered (or mostly used) and what is not.

I congratulate ArenaNet. Possibly this is not one of the most important topics regarding balance, but they made an effort of asking us our opinion. I appreciate that, even if it’s not helping me that much, but it’s helping them for statistics and profession MMR. Anything is better than nothing, any change is better than no change at all through a boring game. I like diversity, so I voted YES.

So are you suggesting that if the highest skillcap build that also has a nice payoff is very prevalent in the top 50, and an absolutely noskill braindead spamfest build only dominates the top 150-250 range of the ladder then Anet should nerf the skillful build and buff the braindead one? Or should they not care about the top of the ladder and just balance around bronze/silver metrics because that’s probably 80% of the playerbase?

Also Anet has no idea what builds people are running, let’s say you see “necromancer: 30% of the top ranked players”, what do you do? What do you nerf, Power? Condi? Bunker?

Great idea, already looking forward to the triple thief, double nec with no ele and double ranger double engi comps I usually get. Even without class stacking setups will be unbalanced (ele vs no ele + low mobility etc). Anet wasn’t able to introduce proper matchmaking for 4 years, how is that supposed to suddenly work now?

Saiyan.1704:

There’s multiple issues here, and the dev listed a few of them on the front page. It all just boils down to this:

• True MMR – Matchmaking is the very backbone of how your mmr is governed. So when matchmaking is pooling professions out of a given pool and ordering them by rating/mmr, well, you just threw that calculation in the gutter by swapping pre-game or mid-game to another class that may not have the same skill level. This (among other items) just skews the system up, making your rating not exactly where it should be. It’s why the volatility is so huge… it must be minimized.

The real problem is not profession stacking… The issue has always been Matchmaking.

This statement about MM is so wrong on many levels. Every game matches players first (League, OW, …), then allows them to pick roles. By your logic, all these games ruin their matchmaking by doing it this …. or rather you have no clue what you are writing about.

kappa.2036:

@ Evan Lesh
If YES wins:

• Make sure to create a Build Templates option in the pvp build panel so we can adapt to our team composition without changing class completely;
• Increase build diversity. Right now we still have 1 viable build x class (max 2 with certain classes);

In my opinion this game is not ready for a change like this yet.

Also add a surrender option because if the other team completely shuts down your own team composition, might as well surrender as soon as possible to move to the next game.

Falan.1839:

Great idea, already looking forward to the triple thief, double nec with no ele and double ranger double engi comps I usually get. Even without class stacking setups will be unbalanced (ele vs no ele + low mobility etc). Anet wasn’t able to introduce proper matchmaking for 4 years, how is that supposed to suddenly work now?

Voting No = status quo (of the past 4 years)

Voting Yes = is at least a change

I don’t know for sure if “locking professions” will allow ANet to improve matchmaking or make better balance patches. In theory, this should give ANet all kinds of data to improve PvP balance. Whether or not they ACTUALLY ACT on the data?

But I do know with HOT and every balance patch since, ANet has driven me and others farther and farther away from this game. Status quo will not bring people back.

I’m looking at this and I cringe… As much as locking classes immediately upon accepting queue seems logical, it has a load of problems that it creates, and it’s going to virtually eliminate certain classes from competitive PvP. Let me explain…

Teams right now are randomly generated based on player/character rating, however not all classes are equal. Thieves, for example, can be very useful to have one of; however if your team has 2+ thieves, you’re virtually guaranteed to lose. Having no way to swap, if you have a 3-thief random team vs anything but another 3-thief team or total noobs, all you’re doing is playing for second place in a 2-team match; it’s extremely disheartening.

I say that to say sometimes team comps, as randomly generated, are so heavily weighted to one side that, unless the disadvantaged team has FAR superior players, it guarantees a win for one team. That means everyone who’s serious about doing well is going to queue in exclusively with the most versatile of classes and builds, and everyone who doesn’t has a good chance of the game being decided at 0-0.

Don’t get me wrong, some of the most enjoyable PvP classes to play are role players, and role players can often win games; however once you stack 2 or 3 players in the same non-general role, your team’s screwed.

Anyone who supports locking on queue accept, I can virtually guarantee, mains a warrior, guardian, or necromancer. Those right now are the only 3 classes which are at least decent against everything. Ranger is close, but not really there, and before you killed all decent defensive amulets the elementalist would have been a 4th but as it stands, it’s not. What that means is, with locking classes 2/3 of all classes now become a liability to take. That’s the way it’s always been, to be honest; however if you noticed that you were poorly balanced, you could switch. If you can’t switch, no ratings conscience player will use anything else. I vastly prefer variety to fighting the same 3 classes all day every day; both with and against.

In ranked, I think the best way to do it is player rating, not class rating to determine match-ups. People can switch classes at will in the 90 seconds ready room, however doing as you’ve already stated you will and locking in the 10 second pre-match until end of match, thus preventing the end-game swapping for dailies (and possible accidental throwing of match which is BS).

So my answer is an emphatic NO, do not lock classes. Locking classes won’t make PvP more fair nor more enjoyable, it will simply remove 6 of 9 classes from truly competitive PvP.

Lock classes but do not allow the matchmaker or teams to stack classes in matches. Or you’ll end up with the situation many have presented where you’ll be stacked with an unfavorable class type (I.E double or triple thief) and no way to recover a match like that.

Having a system limit 1 profession per team which is pretty much 5/9. Locking profession like that means if you try to relog on something like ele when your team already has one you won’t get back into the match unless you switch to a profession that your team doesn’t have. I guess it’s asking for too much huh?

Hope this goes through. I have multiple classes, but I usually only play 1 in ranked PvP because I know I’m not as good at my others. I would be playing 3-4 if I knew it wouldn’t mess up my rating.

All classes have multiple builds that can be used and they can be used for different roles. Some people here are acting like the only build a class can play is whatever is voted highest at Metabattle :p

They(Anet) are not yet aware of their problems is Healer. MMO PVP should never put a Full Healer/Full Support(ELE) in the game. This will fix your build fix your class fix everything. You can reference the other failure MMO that name WoW. There never have a fair match under them.

I voted yes as I desperately want a profession-specific leaderboard, and because I want profession-based MMR again.

I will admit I am no where near as strong on other classes as I am on engineer, but I also want to play other professions in a ranked environment and try to improve.

profession locking could work if somethings would be added alongside it especially if the locking happens at the time of queue.
– A quick way to switch builds while waiting for a match to start (60 second isn’t quite long enough to set everything up.
– To obtain a profession MMR then said profession would have to go through placement matches.
– Tournament rules need to be enforced (no class stacking)
– Possible mirror style matches ( could be boring but it would come down to more skill rather than profession type)

So what happens if I get queued into 3 thieves and the enemy team actually has a comp? Do I just take the L?

Yes.

The second one person switches classes you’ve essentially thrown out any semblance of balance the match making system was trying to achieve.

Granted, I get why (most) people (probably) do it. The match making system gives us stupid team comps sometimes and players take it upon themselves to try and fix the issue. That being said..I don’t believe that that -is- the reason all players switch, some of them are just trying to create an advantage for their team by switching to a class the other team might have a weakness to. Again, this completely invalidates everything the match making system tried to do.

Voting no against this because you want to hold on to this ability to fix poor match making with your own hands is, I believe, short sighted (I’ll explain in a moment).

Voting no against this because you want to be able to gain advantage over other players..well, that doesn’t make things better.

As to why I think voting no is short sighted, let’s do best case/worst case scenario:

Best case: If classes are locked in place the moment you queue, then ten players of a (hopefully relatively) equal skill level get put into the match. The teams are as close to even as the system can make them, and no player has the ability to try and give their team an edge by switching.

Worst case: Classes are locked in place the moment you queue, and the match starts with horribly bad team compositions or stacked classes. Now it is up to the players to do the best they can with what they have to try and win, but that isn’t the important point. The important point is that this -IS- a situation that the players can’t remedy by themselves, and all of the onus for creating balanced teams is on match making system and the match making system ONLY.

In conclusion: Even if we end up with cases of the worst case scenario, this change is a step in the right direction.

It might take time, it might be painful, but if we put the power in the hand’s of the system, than the system can be improved upon over time as we move forward. If there is a problem they can fix it, if there are imbalances they can tweak it.

Let’s not fight against the devs and defeat their efforts – working with them in this way reduces the guesswork and makes the flaws in the system a LOT more apparent.

If this change was made, would they not have to balance with it in mind?

If so, I’d say yes to see what they do.

Because how else do you make an entire team of counter builds not steam roll the other comp?

as for team balance, if you had to queue as a role that might solve the unbalanced team issue.

This change for yes is a huge oportunity to create a base to work on. Shure custom templates, class leaderboards, and adapting matchmaker is part of it and i am confident devs think of this. Otherwise it would not make sense. A No is realy hindering progress and better matchmaking (from system side, not if platin+ players adapt team comp … which is an absolute minority).

I hope everyone is reading the words carefully…. Appears most aren’t.

No, I want to be able to switch professions up until the round begins.

They will be locking class switch regardless of poll votes. This is a choice to let us switch before the round begins. Read the red posts in this thread to confirm it if you like.

(although I shouldn’t care, I haven’t spent a cent on the game or play it since they put a bias “punishment” on my account, 2 way streets are fun and so is saving $100 a fortnight or not buying Legendaries with Credit Card)

I’m also going to point out, this won’t work unless every Ele has the same build, every war has the same build, every DH has the same build and so on… Matchmaking might get fixed and disallow class stacking but what good is that if the player has control of the build templates and allows for such volatility? I’ll queue berserker Ele for fun, I bet my allies will be thrilled!!!

It’s truly frightening to me that people are voting for either option, without the pretext of a balance patch in such magnitude, the likes gw2 has never seen, that it fixes the disparity between the classes to even a reasonable level. It’s also note worthy to me that, people are voting for an option with an attached personal “hope” for balance changes to accompany, or ANY second “well if they did this too” idea. NO WHERE has it been said that this would be the case. Even forgoing all of that, people expect MM to be any “better” than the current iteration; and let’s just be kittening real for a second, THE POPULATION for S6 will be LOWER than S5, DUE TO ascended vending change, S5 leaderboard fiasco, and a multitude of other things that have driven people from the game. How in the world will matchmaking be better with equal to or, most likely, LESS people than there were in S5? WHY does no one question anet about this? To top it off, anet words the poll in a way that it is EASILY misinterpreted, much like the GOP in US politics, just swinging a new “shiny feature” in front of the masses to distract from the REAL issues.

Wolfric.9380:

This change for yes is a huge oportunity to create a base to work on. Shure custom templates, class leaderboards, and adapting matchmaker is part of it and i am confident devs think of this. Otherwise it would not make sense. A No is realy hindering progress and better matchmaking (from system side, not if platin+ players adapt team comp … which is an absolute minority).

I feel like this ideal needs to be addressed, “create a base to work on,” maybe this is just me being picky but, after 5 years, I’d expect the BASE to have already been worked out. But I’m a realistic person, after 5 years, I’m thoroughly convinced that the Balance Team and the PvP Team, truly have no direction in mind, this is evident due to the pattern of “balance changes” and general PvP changes released over said 5 years.

How people are correlating class mmr/mm to “better” is completely beyond me, do any of you even play this game? Do ANY of you even understand how imbalanced the game mode is? You are going to subject yourselves to some SERIOUS punishment if you naively believe that this system will work in any shape or form. Ignorance is bliss.

The lack of confidence in balance and matchmaking seems to be the biggest issue here.

Here’s hoping ANET hits a home run on Tuesday.

Vicariuz.1605:

It’s truly frightening to me that people are voting for either option, without the pretext of a balance patch in such magnitude, the likes gw2 has never seen, that it fixes the disparity between the classes to even a reasonable level. It’s also note worthy to me that, people are voting for an option with an attached personal “hope” for balance changes to accompany, or ANY second “well if they did this too” idea. NO WHERE has it been said that this would be the case. Even forgoing all of that, people expect MM to be any “better” than the current iteration; and let’s just be kittening real for a second, THE POPULATION for S6 will be LOWER than S5, DUE TO ascended vending change, S5 leaderboard fiasco, and a multitude of other things that have driven people from the game. How in the world will matchmaking be better with equal to or, most likely, LESS people than there were in S5? WHY does no one question anet about this? To top it off, anet words the poll in a way that it is EASILY misinterpreted, much like the GOP in US politics, just swinging a new “shiny feature” in front of the masses to distract from the REAL issues.

Wolfric.9380:

This change for yes is a huge oportunity to create a base to work on. Shure custom templates, class leaderboards, and adapting matchmaker is part of it and i am confident devs think of this. Otherwise it would not make sense. A No is realy hindering progress and better matchmaking (from system side, not if platin+ players adapt team comp … which is an absolute minority).

I feel like this ideal needs to be addressed, “create a base to work on,” maybe this is just me being picky but, after 5 years, I’d expect the BASE to have already been worked out. But I’m a realistic person, after 5 years, I’m thoroughly convinced that the Balance Team and the PvP Team, truly have no direction in mind, this is evident due to the pattern of “balance changes” and general PvP changes released over said 5 years.

How people are correlating class mmr/mm to “better” is completely beyond me, do any of you even play this game? Do ANY of you even understand how imbalanced the game mode is? You are going to subject yourselves to some SERIOUS punishment if you naively believe that this system will work in any shape or form. Ignorance is bliss.

Right, after 5 years of having the same crappy balance and same crappy matchmaking, voting NO will DO NOTHING to improve the situation. ITS MORE OF THE SAME!

Voting YES is CHANGE.. whether its good or bad?? Having classed based MMR at least should improve the matchmaking. Whether it helps with profession balance or not is up for ANet to decide. Yes, the change will suck at first. But if ANet actually does ACT on the data they get from profession based MMR, then down the road it will only get better.

If you vote NO, you shouldn’t complain about the class stacking, bad balance and crappy matchmaking. Your telling ANet that the “status quo” is good enough.

I think It should be allowed to swap classes before the beginning of the match (the ~1 minute waiting time inside the Arena) but not anymore during the match!

I just fear that (when professions are locked) Anet wont be able to create fair teams in consideration of the Roles – so they might balance it correctly with MMR but the class mix is unfair (Bunker, Support, Fast Roamer, on Point Brawler, etc…)
I would definitly be open for a Test Phase though and if it does work out well im willing to take the change

Orangensaft.7139:

I think It should be allowed to swap classes before the beginning of the match (the ~1 minute waiting time inside the Arena) but not anymore during the match!

That is what the “No” option is. They specifically said that regardless of outcome they are locking the ability to change class after the match starts.

Ithilwen.1529:

The lack of confidence in balance and matchmaking seems to be the biggest issue here.

Here’s hoping ANET hits a home run on Tuesday.

Oh I’m sure all the 3 tooltip fixes and 4 aftercast duration reductions for unused skills will be meta shattering.

I no longer think YES or NO matter anymore. Now, it’s up to ArenaNet developers to decide, because 52/48 is not much of a vote, it only shows that players do not know exactly what to choose, or they have fear from the risk involved in vote and result repercussions.

ArenaNet, you got your vote. Now let’s see what you decide when players are split almost in half? Ignore one large side, or the other huge side?

With all do respect, in my opinion this decision should not be ours. I appreciate the time and commitment to ask us. This is a great initiative. However, the vote shows that we all don’t have a clue what to choose here. A developer should step up and have the kitten cubes (think outside the box) and decide something, anything that can bring more value into the product’s PvP section.

Uh we know this would be a bad change I don’t know what you’re smoking. Anet has been dumbing down the game , making bugs, and sanding off polish since season four.

A good change would be to hide the enemies team comp before a match. Anet doesn’t see that I guess. It’s currently far to easy to switch to a class that will favor your team with the knowledge of the enemy team comp.

ah, good, no is winning now.

charchar.2149:

Uh we know this would be a bad change I don’t know what you’re smoking. Anet has been dumbing down the game , making bugs, and sanding off polish since season four.

A good change would be to hide the enemies team comp before a match. Anet doesn’t see that I guess. It’s currently far to easy to switch to a class that will favor your team with the knowledge of the enemy team comp.

That is what makes a good player, knowledge. Using that knowledge should always favour the team who used it more.

I do think that is a good idea though, to hide the opposite team… It would greatly encourage team members to communicate before match and get a proper team comp, I simply do not trust the match making to do this for me given the facts of the past.

why dont they make it so you cant see your enemy teams comp??

you could still class stack but at least if you didn’t know what your opponent’s comp then you couldn’t counter comp!

NO favors people comfortable and ready with multiple characters and enables toxicity towards players who don’t.

YES favors everyone.

I voted YES, but I also agree that hiding enemy team comp would probably better solve the problem they’re attempting to solve. (KISS principle!)

I do think you should make up your mind about what profession to play ahead of time, but I agree that the matchmaking system, as we know it at least, has a quite terrible track record of creating decently competitive comp match-ups.

Going with class locking basically requires a no stacking rule, or you’re only left off worse then it is now. So yes, hiding enemy comp is the much simpler and more effective solution.

Hiding classes won’t solve the issue that some classes are overplayed. 5 DH is 5 DH, hidden or not.

While the idea seems good on long term (especially profession MMR) I think it is too soon to implement this feature since for such a system to work one would need, in my opinion:
-at least 2 different role per profession, not 2 different power or support builds
-a quick access to different builds like the presets introduced recently…but our own builds
-a rapid way to check team members’ builds, or at least amulets to know what is played and how to adapt

Of course this comment is only valid for soloQ. In a team queue environment, should it be re-implemented, it could totally make sense.