Proposed Changes for Engineer Turrets

Proposed Changes for Engineer Turrets

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Posted by: Iason Evan.3806

Iason Evan.3806

Does this mean that inanimate objects for heart quests can take crits and condi damage now? We’ve been asking for that for longer.

As to the changes, I am all about it. This will help a ton at least on paper.

Leader of The Guernsey Milking Coalition [MiLk] Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Vieux P.1238

Vieux P.1238

Oh, is this the thread where we sign up for some PAYBACK?

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Posted by: Quadox.7834

Quadox.7834

Very nice, everyone get your necros

Yaniam [Mesmer]

^ Usually only characer that i play on

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Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

Either conditions or crits effecting turrets would have been enough. Both are too much, however, and will mean turrets other than thumper will die very quickly versus any compositions. If you mean to implement both, I’d suggest health increases on non-thumper turrets to compensate.

Personally I’d like to see 3 things:

  • Turrets affected by conditions
  • Turrets other than Healing Turret are placed where the Engineer was located when the channel began. Fixes turrets in midair, which was one of the main reasons turrets are hard to kill
  • Protection Injection switches places with Stabilized Armor. The engi must decide whether they want to take protection against personal burst, or damage reduction on turrets, reducing their effective defenses overall

Here Here o/

but, please make it take crits instead of condi, rest is great. I’d like to keep a few reasons to pull them out in PVE

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Posted by: Guardian of Angels.9867

Guardian of Angels.9867

Believe it’s said before, but make a change to the way Turrets spawn.

- Either make it an AoE skill that places the turret where you select it
- or make it so that you aren’t allowed to move whilst placing it.

aka Holy Blood Guardian
Guild Website: http://www.wtnf.net
Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCb07P-bW94jE3-mKHGToyOg

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Posted by: met.9653

met.9653

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

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Posted by: Scoobaniec.9561

Scoobaniec.9561

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

Fire elementals can burn and take damage from fire..soo?

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Posted by: DanteZero.9736

DanteZero.9736

Bleeding turrets? So, what, they leak oil? And poisoned turrets have… rusty gears?

As for how it affects PvE/WvW, I can’t say anything for WvW, but I can say that turrets were never popular in PvE so their “viability” in that situation remains about the same. Though, I think I’m going to run turrets when the changes are out to see how it fairs.

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Posted by: met.9653

met.9653

BTW full condi necro plus epidemic. Target thumper turret, stack condis and use epidemic. Its gonna be glorious

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Posted by: manysongsgw.2931

manysongsgw.2931

That’s awesome to hear they’ll be vulnerable to conditions!

My concern is with buffing turrets to be able to crit. The way many turret engis spec now, turrets deal plenty of damage just between rifle turret and rocket turret. I feel that allowing turrets to crit may be abused and the balance will backlash because people will cry TURRETS ARE DOING MORE DAMAGE NOW.

Guild Wars 1 Player of 4+ years
IGN: Valkyrie Friisong
Lvl 80 Warrior

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Posted by: Siva Mira.3546

Siva Mira.3546

Will Turret run in fear when I fear them?

All is vain.

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Posted by: dragonrage.8921

dragonrage.8921

I’m game with the original posted ideas but ill add one more if turrets can take critical hits and condi damage, they can give critical hits based on the engineers critical% and damage potency in return. And to those that cry cheese or wolf whatever you want look at the #2 spamming longbow power ranger, or the nothing but auto attack fresh air dd ele that has no cooldowns on the fresh air trait?

(edited by dragonrage.8921)

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Posted by: Aeromu.9134

Aeromu.9134

Glad to see they are getting changes for PvP but it just adds to the reasons they are not viable in PvE.

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Posted by: Josh Davis.6015

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That’s awesome to hear they’ll be vulnerable to conditions!

My concern is with buffing turrets to be able to crit. The way many turret engis spec now, turrets deal plenty of damage just between rifle turret and rocket turret. I feel that allowing turrets to crit may be abused and the balance will backlash because people will cry TURRETS ARE DOING MORE DAMAGE NOW.

You’re misinterpreting the post, but you’re not the first. I’ll edit my original post to be more clear.

Engineer turrets themselves cannot crit, but they will be able to receive crits from other players/NPCs.

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Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

Why not decrease the turrets effectiveness? like decrease: their damage, condition, range? and add long cool-down to turrets recharge like mesmer clones/phant, range, ranger pets and necromancer minions?

The fix are already in the game by these class: so why not use them for engineer turrets?

I do not get this at all: we player have no problem with mesmer clones, ranger pets and engineer minion because obviously they are not that problematic like engineer turrets so why ignore the good change?

So good change is bad for Arena net? So borrowing good idea from something that work is bad?

Is this really what Arena net strategy is of making this game better? To Refuse what work and to Refuse what is good and Ignore them?

In the end,

I will be honest again: this new change will make this game worse. More evidence of ignoring good and positive change and accepting bad and negative change.

Very dissapointed.

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)

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Posted by: Josh Davis.6015

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Will Turret run in fear when I fear them?

Nope. While they’ll definitely receive the fear condition, they’ll stand their ground.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Turrets absolutely needed a nerf, there is no doubt there. However, immunity to critical hits and conditions is not what makes turrets so strong, a completely passive playstyle that allows turrets to deal high consistent damage and bring tons of CC while on a massively tanky build is. All this does is allow builds that already brought tons of passive AoE and had an okay matchup against turret engi to flat out hard-counter them, and builds that originally struggled will still struggle. I’m also pretty sure that a single Combustive shot at level 3 will one shot all turrets it hits or very close, much like it does to every other AI build which (is one of many things that) forces those builds completely out of the meta.

This is not a good change, it doesn’t even come close to addressing the real issues that make turret engi too strong.

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
My PvP Minion Build

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Posted by: Shockwave.1230

Shockwave.1230

So, fear, taunt, chill, cripple, and weakness. Can we get a breakdown on what the expected effects on turrets will be?

Confusion and Torment questions too?

Will fear cause interrupts and prevent a turret from firing during the condition?
Taunt won’t cause some infinite fire rate glitch due to no recharge on the turret attack skills right? Purely speculation
Is cripple going to be useless or do something like half distance on attacks?
Is chill going to slow the firing rate? Reduce attack range?
Will weakness cause fumble on turrets?

Will confusion apply PvE damage to turrets?
Will torment only apply the min damage, while turrets are rotating will it apply extra damage?

Sylvari Elementalist – Mystree Duskbloom (Lv 80)
Norn Guardian – Aurora Lustyr (Lv 80)
Mia A Shadows Glow – Human Thief (Lv 80)

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Posted by: manysongsgw.2931

manysongsgw.2931

That’s awesome to hear they’ll be vulnerable to conditions!

My concern is with buffing turrets to be able to crit. The way many turret engis spec now, turrets deal plenty of damage just between rifle turret and rocket turret. I feel that allowing turrets to crit may be abused and the balance will backlash because people will cry TURRETS ARE DOING MORE DAMAGE NOW.

You’re misinterpreting the post, but you’re not the first. I’ll edit my original post to be more clear.

Engineer turrets themselves cannot crit, but they will be able to receive crits from other players/NPCs.

Ah, my bad. The way it’s worded: Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
Sounded like turrets would deliver critical hits, but I assume you mean Turrets can be critically hit by enemies or Turrets are vulnerable to critical hits.

Thanks for the clarification Grouch!

Guild Wars 1 Player of 4+ years
IGN: Valkyrie Friisong
Lvl 80 Warrior

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Posted by: Rainiris.1975

Rainiris.1975

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

  • Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
  • Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

Allowring turrets to recieve crit damage and condition because “other minions” do doesn’t feel like a correct justification. They can still not move with you, and they still have high cd, where these “other minions” can be respawned just faster.

So, since turrets are getting easier to “kill”, can we get something based on how long have they been deployed? You know, something to compensate the 1 minute plus of coooldown after death.

Edit: There’s also the upcoming taunt mechanic.

(edited by Rainiris.1975)

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Posted by: Patchi.9061

Patchi.9061

Can you also give us a balance updates on upcoming patches please? So the community can help out with the balance by giving suggestions or reasons where the balance can be further improved (it’s only fair after ignoring us for 6 other months). Would really appreciate it.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

so… any chance this is applied to all structures/objects in the game?

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: Vilkata.4725

Vilkata.4725

Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

Leader of The Quiddity [Quid]
Everything is a Nemesis plot.

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Posted by: BrunoBRS.5178

BrunoBRS.5178

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

  • Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
  • Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

Allowring turrets to recieve crit damage and condition because “other minions” do doesn’t feel like a correct justification. They can still not move with you, and they still have high cd, where these “other minions” can be respawned just faster.

So, since turrets are getting easier to “kill”, can we get something based on how long have they been deployed? You know, something to compensate the 1 minute plus of coooldown after death.

you can already heal the turrets with specific skills, and shave the cooldown by picking them up.

and then there’s supply crate, which i’m pretty sure makes it so engis can have the most ‘minions’ out at once.

LegendaryMythril/Zihark Darshell

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Posted by: CommunityScabies.2587

CommunityScabies.2587

Will Necromancer staff Marks activate under Turrets? Or is Staff going to be useless vs Turrets with exception to it’s non-condition causing auto-attack?

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Posted by: Mustafa.7684

Mustafa.7684

TLDR:

Please do not forget about the turrets being in mid Air!

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Posted by: Rising Dusk.2408

Rising Dusk.2408

TLDR:

Please do not forget about the turrets being in mid Air!

This is really important, Grouch! Don’t miss this!

[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!

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Posted by: Nightshade.2570

Nightshade.2570

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

  • Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit. (Edit for clarity: this change means the turrets can take critical hits against them, but they still cannot deal critical hits themselves.)
  • Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

This makes me think of two things I would like to propose instead that I consider even more important:

1. Turrets should not stay in an area so long after the engineer has left.
2. Turrets should not be able to hang in mid air or in unnatural places to avoid damage.

(edited by Nightshade.2570)

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

This needs to to happen, AoE cleansing/healing/boons are of the charts compared to their counterparts. Taking it away from players to the turrets is a start. The floating turrets needs to be fix as well. An idea also would be to put more value into the tool belt skills and active skills of turrets skills and less on them just staying there.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Patchi.9061

Patchi.9061

on another note, Nerfing turrets will greatly nerf Supply crate…I don’t believe an elite which is on a 180 second cool-down would be that good if the main source of supply crate (burn and immob) will be cleared out in matter of seconds… Perhaps buff the supply crate as the turrets are equipped with the reflect bubble to ensure that the turrets stay alive longer than 5 seconds? (or else you are killing all of Engineer’s elites as mortar and Elixir X tornado are completley useless.. )

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Posted by: DeWolfe.2174

DeWolfe.2174

These changes are effectively removing Turrets from PvP. Turrets have far too small an HP pool for changes like this. The logical course of action for Engi’s is to get them out of harms way now. Just expect it…

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

[AwM] of Jade Quarry.

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Posted by: Peutrifectus.4830

Peutrifectus.4830

Perfect changes TBH… Sometimes the nerf hammer can be too heavy. This is just right I think

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Posted by: Josh Davis.6015

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So, fear, taunt, chill, cripple, and weakness. Can we get a breakdown on what the expected effects on turrets will be?

Confusion and Torment questions too?

Will fear cause interrupts and prevent a turret from firing during the condition?
Taunt won’t cause some infinite fire rate glitch due to no recharge on the turret attack skills right? Purely speculation
Is cripple going to be useless or do something like half distance on attacks?
Is chill going to slow the firing rate? Reduce attack range?
Will weakness cause fumble on turrets?

Will confusion apply PvE damage to turrets?
Will torment only apply the min damage, while turrets are rotating will it apply extra damage?

There won’t be any new special cases for turrets that receive conditions. The effects that happen them will match what you’d expect to happen to players. For example, blinding a turret will means that their next attack will miss. Weakness (fumble) will work on turrets. Applying confusion to turrets will cause them to take damage when they attack.

For the most part chill, cripple, and immob wouldn’t have much effect on the turret. For chill, turret cooldown skills are tied to the engineer’s skill bar, not the turret itself. Torment will always tick at its lowest rate since they don’t run (lack of wheels is intended).

Regarding fear, turrets have never been susceptible to CC, and they will continue to be immune to CC. Applying fear to a turret will not cause it to stop attacking. However, if you’re a necromancer with the Terror trait equipped, you will do fear damage to the turret.

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Posted by: Covis.6037

Covis.6037

ok ty for quick actions.

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Posted by: Josh Davis.6015

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Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

Turrets will not be able to receive boons.

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

Turrets will not be able to receive boons.

Aww

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Josh Davis.6015

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Will Necromancer staff Marks activate under Turrets? Or is Staff going to be useless vs Turrets with exception to it’s non-condition causing auto-attack?

Marks don’t trigger on turrets unless there’s something else like a pet or player in the AoE radius. This has been the case for a long time, but that doesn’t mean it’s not something we wouldn’t possibly change.

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Posted by: Lithril Ashwalker.6230

Lithril Ashwalker.6230

I suggest making them have specific conditions able to apply, bleed, blind, the new SLOW, the new quickness (after release of hot obviously) and torment.

bleed for the leaking of oil/grease
blind to effect the ability to hit, say cannot locate target
slow because of “duh” and quickness too. well lubricated or not lubricated.

poison cripple etc dont make sense on turrets.

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

I love the idea of having conditions work against them. I think this should also be the case for all objects in the game.

You guys should take the Blizzard Entertainment approach of putting Gameplay over Realism. It works.

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Posted by: Nyx.7342

Nyx.7342

this is a nice change, but i think it would be better to address the fact that turret engies can take the tankiest stats possible and still have their turrets hit for a lot. Sure being able to destroy turrets faster is nice, but on certain maps and places they can put their turrets in places that are hard to reach and be a waste of time. If you changed turrets damage to the engineers stats as well, i.e. a zerker engies turrets would hit harder, a tanky engies turrets would hit weaker. That way they cant just run around a point doing nothing. This also doesnt address the fact that a turret engie can just leave his turrets on a point and run somewhere else.

The changes are nice but im not sure if they are the right ones. I dont think all these changes should be made since that would make turrets horrible (ok actually i wish they would but have to keep build diversity), but i think the damage-stat change would be best.

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Posted by: Celtus.8456

Celtus.8456

Cool. How about fixing the real problems though? Leaderboard, queue experience (time/being stuck in that lobby…), celestial builds, air/fire sigil builds, and so on. This and ToL3 are just crumbs.

Josre
Zulu Ox Tactics [zulu]

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Posted by: Josh Davis.6015

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btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

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Posted by: Loboling.5293

Loboling.5293

I have been giving it more thought, and I agree with some others here that conditions affecting them will remove them from 95% of the situations I use them for in pve. With already being underused, this would make them nearly-useless (more so than now). So please, if you do decide to go ahead with this in pvp, don’t let the condition change carry over to pve.

Also, its funny, but I hadn’t considered the effect this will have on the elite supply drop. All my builds, except for HGH, run supply drop. Which means, that I’ll be getting nerfed against builds that already gave me trouble (condition necros, condition rangers). I think consider implementing a first change to allow turrets to be crit before implementing the two changes simultaneously. This was you can see how effective critting turrets is, before nerfing engies abilities to survive a condition class. (although probably a minor nerf in all honesty) While allowing players who use turrets in pve to continue to do so, until you decide if implementing another change is needed.

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Posted by: Alphard.6529

Alphard.6529

What about the fact that turrets can be placed in the air, on trees and other very hard (or impossible) to reach places for many builds?

[KING] Alpha Cas

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Posted by: Mustafa.7684

Mustafa.7684

Also to prevent Turret Camping, please have a self destruct or auto turn off mechanism where the turrets will not be operable unless the engi is within its radius. This will prevent the AI from holding a point on its own. Zerker classes will find it difficult capping the point if the turrents are all focused onto them.

Also to prevent turrets from being deployed in mid air, have the turrets drop at the start of the animation not at the end. This will nullify the trick to having turrets in mid. As jumping off the ledge as soon as the animation is started will result the turret being deployed at the end of the animation.

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Posted by: Turk.5460

Turk.5460

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

Not the fact that bows have unlimited ammunition with no quiver, or that these flintlock style pistols and rifles are semi-automatic, or that attacking the left pinky toe of a 80 foot dragon will kill it, or that leaping through smoke and covering myself in ashes will somehow turn me invisible or….trails off

-Fort Aspenwood- [UNIV] [TLC] [ShW]
-Sorrow’s Furnace-

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Posted by: Manuhell.2759

Manuhell.2759

So, they keep all the disadvantages they already had -unmoveable, cannot crit, cannot receive boons, cooldown start after their death – and they also get common disadvantages of other minions – being vulnerable to crit and conditions.
To bring them inline, you say? Engineers weren’t never inline to begin with. They have to focus on utilities – since they lack a second weapon, you know, and they never got brought inline about that – and if those utilities end up being terrible (and with the uptime they’ll have after these changes, turrets will be terrible, since they won’t be able to stand five seconds even in a fully traited build) they just don’t get used. And turrets will end up like that – unused.
Oh, i realize you’re doing so to cater to the whining userbase, it isn’t surprising. I already expected them to be smitherbooned when i saw they were been worked upon.
But i still had a small hope of seeing them redesigned to see some proper active use and micromanagement. Instead, they just get their survivability nerfed to oblivion.

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Posted by: EnemyCrusher.7324

EnemyCrusher.7324

Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Not all conditions make sense when applied to turrets.

Makes sense:

  • Burning
  • Chilled
  • Torment
  • Vulnerability
  • Weakness

Maybe makes sense:

  • Blind (makes sense for all except thumper)
  • Confusion
  • Slow

Doesn’t make sense for existing turrets, but would make sense for mobile turrets:

  • Crippled
  • Immobilize

Doesn’t make sense:

  • Bleeding
  • Fear
  • Poison

At the very least, turrets should remain immune to Bleeding, Fear, and Poison.

Light of Honor [Lite] – Founder / Warmaster
Sorrow’s Furnace Commander
“You’re the mount, karka’s ride you instead, and thus they die happy!”-Colin Johanson

(edited by EnemyCrusher.7324)

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Posted by: Jasher.6580

Jasher.6580

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

Not the fact that bows have unlimited ammunition with no quiver, or that these flintlock style pistols and rifles are semi-automatic, or that attacking the left pinky toe of a 80 foot dragon will kill it, or that leaping through smoke and covering myself in ashes will somehow turn me invisible or….trails off

Exactly… these people who keep crying about broken “immersion” and is willing to sacrifice gameplay irritates me so much.

Conditions damage specs need some love. “A gate can’t bleed, you aren’t allowed to do any damage to it.”

smh

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Yeah, why do these magically appearing turrets not take damage from my swirling fire I summoned from this magical wooden stick!

But of Corpse – Watch us on YouTube
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