Guild Wars 2

Does this mean that inanimate objects for heart quests can take crits and condi damage now? We’ve been asking for that for longer.

As to the changes, I am all about it. This will help a ton at least on paper.

Oh, is this the thread where we sign up for some PAYBACK?

Very nice, everyone get your necros

Sins.4782:

Either conditions or crits effecting turrets would have been enough. Both are too much, however, and will mean turrets other than thumper will die very quickly versus any compositions. If you mean to implement both, I’d suggest health increases on non-thumper turrets to compensate.

Personally I’d like to see 3 things:

• Turrets affected by conditions
• Turrets other than Healing Turret are placed where the Engineer was located when the channel began. Fixes turrets in midair, which was one of the main reasons turrets are hard to kill
• Protection Injection switches places with Stabilized Armor. The engi must decide whether they want to take protection against personal burst, or damage reduction on turrets, reducing their effective defenses overall

Here Here o/

but, please make it take crits instead of condi, rest is great. I’d like to keep a few reasons to pull them out in PVE

Believe it’s said before, but make a change to the way Turrets spawn.

- Either make it an AoE skill that places the turret where you select it
- or make it so that you aren’t allowed to move whilst placing it.

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

met.9653:

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

Fire elementals can burn and take damage from fire..soo?

Bleeding turrets? So, what, they leak oil? And poisoned turrets have… rusty gears?

As for how it affects PvE/WvW, I can’t say anything for WvW, but I can say that turrets were never popular in PvE so their “viability” in that situation remains about the same. Though, I think I’m going to run turrets when the changes are out to see how it fairs.

BTW full condi necro plus epidemic. Target thumper turret, stack condis and use epidemic. Its gonna be glorious

That’s awesome to hear they’ll be vulnerable to conditions!

My concern is with buffing turrets to be able to crit. The way many turret engis spec now, turrets deal plenty of damage just between rifle turret and rocket turret. I feel that allowing turrets to crit may be abused and the balance will backlash because people will cry TURRETS ARE DOING MORE DAMAGE NOW.

Will Turret run in fear when I fear them?

I’m game with the original posted ideas but ill add one more if turrets can take critical hits and condi damage, they can give critical hits based on the engineers critical% and damage potency in return. And to those that cry cheese or wolf whatever you want look at the #2 spamming longbow power ranger, or the nothing but auto attack fresh air dd ele that has no cooldowns on the fresh air trait?

Glad to see they are getting changes for PvP but it just adds to the reasons they are not viable in PvE.

Why not decrease the turrets effectiveness? like decrease: their damage, condition, range? and add long cool-down to turrets recharge like mesmer clones/phant, range, ranger pets and necromancer minions?

The fix are already in the game by these class: so why not use them for engineer turrets?

I do not get this at all: we player have no problem with mesmer clones, ranger pets and engineer minion because obviously they are not that problematic like engineer turrets so why ignore the good change?

So good change is bad for Arena net? So borrowing good idea from something that work is bad?

Is this really what Arena net strategy is of making this game better? To Refuse what work and to Refuse what is good and Ignore them?

In the end,

I will be honest again: this new change will make this game worse. More evidence of ignoring good and positive change and accepting bad and negative change.

Very dissapointed.

Turrets absolutely needed a nerf, there is no doubt there. However, immunity to critical hits and conditions is not what makes turrets so strong, a completely passive playstyle that allows turrets to deal high consistent damage and bring tons of CC while on a massively tanky build is. All this does is allow builds that already brought tons of passive AoE and had an okay matchup against turret engi to flat out hard-counter them, and builds that originally struggled will still struggle. I’m also pretty sure that a single Combustive shot at level 3 will one shot all turrets it hits or very close, much like it does to every other AI build which (is one of many things that) forces those builds completely out of the meta.

This is not a good change, it doesn’t even come close to addressing the real issues that make turret engi too strong.

So, fear, taunt, chill, cripple, and weakness. Can we get a breakdown on what the expected effects on turrets will be?

Confusion and Torment questions too?

Will fear cause interrupts and prevent a turret from firing during the condition?
Taunt won’t cause some infinite fire rate glitch due to no recharge on the turret attack skills right? Purely speculation
Is cripple going to be useless or do something like half distance on attacks?
Is chill going to slow the firing rate? Reduce attack range?
Will weakness cause fumble on turrets?

Will confusion apply PvE damage to turrets?
Will torment only apply the min damage, while turrets are rotating will it apply extra damage?

Josh Davis.6015:

manysongsgw.2931:

That’s awesome to hear they’ll be vulnerable to conditions!

My concern is with buffing turrets to be able to crit. The way many turret engis spec now, turrets deal plenty of damage just between rifle turret and rocket turret. I feel that allowing turrets to crit may be abused and the balance will backlash because people will cry TURRETS ARE DOING MORE DAMAGE NOW.

You’re misinterpreting the post, but you’re not the first. I’ll edit my original post to be more clear.

Engineer turrets themselves cannot crit, but they will be able to receive crits from other players/NPCs.

Ah, my bad. The way it’s worded: Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
Sounded like turrets would deliver critical hits, but I assume you mean Turrets can be critically hit by enemies or Turrets are vulnerable to critical hits.

Thanks for the clarification Grouch!

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

Allowring turrets to recieve crit damage and condition because “other minions” do doesn’t feel like a correct justification. They can still not move with you, and they still have high cd, where these “other minions” can be respawned just faster.

So, since turrets are getting easier to “kill”, can we get something based on how long have they been deployed? You know, something to compensate the 1 minute plus of coooldown after death.

Edit: There’s also the upcoming taunt mechanic.

Can you also give us a balance updates on upcoming patches please? So the community can help out with the balance by giving suggestions or reasons where the balance can be further improved (it’s only fair after ignoring us for 6 other months). Would really appreciate it.

so… any chance this is applied to all structures/objects in the game?

Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

Rainiris.1975:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit.
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

Allowring turrets to recieve crit damage and condition because “other minions” do doesn’t feel like a correct justification. They can still not move with you, and they still have high cd, where these “other minions” can be respawned just faster.

So, since turrets are getting easier to “kill”, can we get something based on how long have they been deployed? You know, something to compensate the 1 minute plus of coooldown after death.

you can already heal the turrets with specific skills, and shave the cooldown by picking them up.

and then there’s supply crate, which i’m pretty sure makes it so engis can have the most ‘minions’ out at once.

Will Necromancer staff Marks activate under Turrets? Or is Staff going to be useless vs Turrets with exception to it’s non-condition causing auto-attack?

TLDR:

Please do not forget about the turrets being in mid Air!

Mustafa.7684:

TLDR:

Please do not forget about the turrets being in mid Air!

This is really important, Grouch! Don’t miss this!

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit. (Edit for clarity: this change means the turrets can take critical hits against them, but they still cannot deal critical hits themselves.)
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

This makes me think of two things I would like to propose instead that I consider even more important:

1. Turrets should not stay in an area so long after the engineer has left.
2. Turrets should not be able to hang in mid air or in unnatural places to avoid damage.

Vilkata.4725:

Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

This needs to to happen, AoE cleansing/healing/boons are of the charts compared to their counterparts. Taking it away from players to the turrets is a start. The floating turrets needs to be fix as well. An idea also would be to put more value into the tool belt skills and active skills of turrets skills and less on them just staying there.

on another note, Nerfing turrets will greatly nerf Supply crate…I don’t believe an elite which is on a 180 second cool-down would be that good if the main source of supply crate (burn and immob) will be cleared out in matter of seconds… Perhaps buff the supply crate as the turrets are equipped with the reflect bubble to ensure that the turrets stay alive longer than 5 seconds? (or else you are killing all of Engineer’s elites as mortar and Elixir X tornado are completley useless.. )

These changes are effectively removing Turrets from PvP. Turrets have far too small an HP pool for changes like this. The logical course of action for Engi’s is to get them out of harms way now. Just expect it…

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Perfect changes TBH… Sometimes the nerf hammer can be too heavy. This is just right I think

ok ty for quick actions.

Josh Davis.6015:

Vilkata.4725:

Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

Turrets will not be able to receive boons.

Aww

I suggest making them have specific conditions able to apply, bleed, blind, the new SLOW, the new quickness (after release of hot obviously) and torment.

bleed for the leaking of oil/grease
blind to effect the ability to hit, say cannot locate target
slow because of “duh” and quickness too. well lubricated or not lubricated.

poison cripple etc dont make sense on turrets.

I love the idea of having conditions work against them. I think this should also be the case for all objects in the game.

You guys should take the Blizzard Entertainment approach of putting Gameplay over Realism. It works.

this is a nice change, but i think it would be better to address the fact that turret engies can take the tankiest stats possible and still have their turrets hit for a lot. Sure being able to destroy turrets faster is nice, but on certain maps and places they can put their turrets in places that are hard to reach and be a waste of time. If you changed turrets damage to the engineers stats as well, i.e. a zerker engies turrets would hit harder, a tanky engies turrets would hit weaker. That way they cant just run around a point doing nothing. This also doesnt address the fact that a turret engie can just leave his turrets on a point and run somewhere else.

The changes are nice but im not sure if they are the right ones. I dont think all these changes should be made since that would make turrets horrible (ok actually i wish they would but have to keep build diversity), but i think the damage-stat change would be best.

Cool. How about fixing the real problems though? Leaderboard, queue experience (time/being stuck in that lobby…), celestial builds, air/fire sigil builds, and so on. This and ToL3 are just crumbs.

I have been giving it more thought, and I agree with some others here that conditions affecting them will remove them from 95% of the situations I use them for in pve. With already being underused, this would make them nearly-useless (more so than now). So please, if you do decide to go ahead with this in pvp, don’t let the condition change carry over to pve.

Also, its funny, but I hadn’t considered the effect this will have on the elite supply drop. All my builds, except for HGH, run supply drop. Which means, that I’ll be getting nerfed against builds that already gave me trouble (condition necros, condition rangers). I think consider implementing a first change to allow turrets to be crit before implementing the two changes simultaneously. This was you can see how effective critting turrets is, before nerfing engies abilities to survive a condition class. (although probably a minor nerf in all honesty) While allowing players who use turrets in pve to continue to do so, until you decide if implementing another change is needed.

What about the fact that turrets can be placed in the air, on trees and other very hard (or impossible) to reach places for many builds?

Also to prevent Turret Camping, please have a self destruct or auto turn off mechanism where the turrets will not be operable unless the engi is within its radius. This will prevent the AI from holding a point on its own. Zerker classes will find it difficult capping the point if the turrents are all focused onto them.

Also to prevent turrets from being deployed in mid air, have the turrets drop at the start of the animation not at the end. This will nullify the trick to having turrets in mid. As jumping off the ledge as soon as the animation is started will result the turret being deployed at the end of the animation.

met.9653:

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

Not the fact that bows have unlimited ammunition with no quiver, or that these flintlock style pistols and rifles are semi-automatic, or that attacking the left pinky toe of a 80 foot dragon will kill it, or that leaping through smoke and covering myself in ashes will somehow turn me invisible or….trails off

So, they keep all the disadvantages they already had -unmoveable, cannot crit, cannot receive boons, cooldown start after their death – and they also get common disadvantages of other minions – being vulnerable to crit and conditions.
To bring them inline, you say? Engineers weren’t never inline to begin with. They have to focus on utilities – since they lack a second weapon, you know, and they never got brought inline about that – and if those utilities end up being terrible (and with the uptime they’ll have after these changes, turrets will be terrible, since they won’t be able to stand five seconds even in a fully traited build) they just don’t get used. And turrets will end up like that – unused.
Oh, i realize you’re doing so to cater to the whining userbase, it isn’t surprising. I already expected them to be smitherbooned when i saw they were been worked upon.
But i still had a small hope of seeing them redesigned to see some proper active use and micromanagement. Instead, they just get their survivability nerfed to oblivion.

Josh Davis.6015:

Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Not all conditions make sense when applied to turrets.

Makes sense:

• Burning
• Chilled
• Torment
• Vulnerability
• Weakness

Maybe makes sense:

• Blind (makes sense for all except thumper)
• Confusion
• Slow

Doesn’t make sense for existing turrets, but would make sense for mobile turrets:

• Crippled
• Immobilize

Doesn’t make sense:

• Bleeding
• Fear
• Poison

At the very least, turrets should remain immune to Bleeding, Fear, and Poison.

Turk.5460:

met.9653:

Turret that can bleed and be affected by poison? #gw2kittenLogic

Not the fact that bows have unlimited ammunition with no quiver, or that these flintlock style pistols and rifles are semi-automatic, or that attacking the left pinky toe of a 80 foot dragon will kill it, or that leaping through smoke and covering myself in ashes will somehow turn me invisible or….trails off

Exactly… these people who keep crying about broken “immersion” and is willing to sacrifice gameplay irritates me so much.

Conditions damage specs need some love. “A gate can’t bleed, you aren’t allowed to do any damage to it.”

smh

Yeah, why do these magically appearing turrets not take damage from my swirling fire I summoned from this magical wooden stick!