Guild Wars 2

miriforst.1290:

jportell.2197:

miriforst.1290:

The problem though is how do we define fun?

For a lot of people it seems the engi is fun to play against if its dead.

And due to the nature of pvp i cant blame them i suppose.

The fact that nearly everyone just sighs and goes FML when they see an engi, because chances are it’s turrets. Most of the players in the game agree, its not fun to fight turrets. So think on that.

Yes, but most people go “ehrmagerd make the turrets kill the engineer that spawned them, permaban then and give meh all their gold” style instead of suggesting reasonable reworks.

Imho the game has so few skills that smitersbooning an entire type should not be the way to go.

For example here is how you could do it:

The turrets are reworked to become stationary, destructible but stronger kits.

The overcharge is replaced by remotes that you can switch to to control the turrets which will then have an entire skill bar worth (to truly make them “kits”), hell you could even let allies control them. Why not slap on something like a disable of certain skills when placed similar to downed state, meaning you get a sense of scaling power the longer you manage to keep them up. Or why not skills that disable the entire turret for a while?

For example rocket turret could have the following skills:

1: Rocket-Fire a basic rocket at your target.
2:Heavy payload- A slow moving high aoe damage rocket, hits hard but have a large tell. Aoe targeted.
3:Countermeasures- Your rocket turret fires a barrage of countermeasures in the area, blocking projectiles for a short duration.
4:Heatseeker: A slow moving missile that homes onto its target. The target will get a crosshair above its head. Disables the rocket turrets skills for X seconds. Causes bleed.
5:Tactical strike:(initially disabled) After designating an area (kill shot cast, immobile) with a laser, a slow moving and arching rocket is launched towards the area. Causes a launch on the enemies affected.

Is this stronger than the current turrets? I don’t know. Is it different? Yes.

And it would hopefully take turrets from being the entry level to probably some of the harder skills to use for the engineer. This was just an example, but its different to simply removing them, creating a unique style of play and hopefully a fairer sense of counter play. Oh and turrets should scale (but that means critting as well, remember).

Its faster though to simply break them, but i suppose thats how it is.

Its easier and faster to break something than fixing or creating.
And what most people are arguing for is breaking.

And in the same move please fix mortar.

Can we have turrets crit too then, please?
If they’re going to act like mobs in taking damage, they ought to act like mobs when dealing damage too.

Turrets are already completely lackluster in PvE, and its extremely difficult to find a viable spot to put a turret so that it’s useful. My guild has had a few niche strategies in WvW using these, but like this even those will be cancelled out.
With this change, they’ll become flat out unuseable, even more so than the significant level of uselessness they already have.

If you make them act like mobs, go all the way and give them proper critstrikes and boon-ability so i can use them in some form or way. ‘cause right now you’re taking 4 utility skills away and making them blatantly unuseable anywhere but PvP.

Agree completely OP.
The effectiveness of this build will barely be affected.
You SHOULD NOT be encouraged to focus the turrets AT ALL.

Makes all the “HA ENGI NERF” posts almost hilarious.

Finaly we got something interesting.

But to be fair, Engi should be able to clean the conditions on turrets. How can an engi clean the turrets (NOOO I never played turrets)?

Could you fix the flying turrets aswell?

The problem with engi, is in his downed state, he doesn’t have time to use his skill 3, so the number of times the turrets save him will now be nullified. If you going to do this change, I would like to suggest you speed up the actual engis skill lag to counter this. I play all professions, all classes, so agree with the change, but needs some tweaking to the build to balance it out.

So turrets are now as weak as spirit weapons, minionmancers and spirit rangers.

Yet you all think that Turrets should last longer than other AI classes? Nope. You’ve just been weighed and measured. AI has always been a 1v1 duelist/bunk spec.

The nerf is fine.

Now all turreters will roll to even more brainless Shoutbow. Well done, Anet

We are bathing in turet engi tears though :’) what a wonderful day this is

MadVisions.4529:

We are bathing in turet engi tears though :’) what a wonderful day this is

And I am tearing up with Laughter because everyone seems to think this “nerf” will do something significant to turret engi effectiveness.

FYI Pro tip : It won’t.

Saiyan.1704:

So turrets are now as weak as spirit weapons, minionmancers and spirit rangers.

Yet you all think that Turrets should last longer than other AI classes? Nope. You’ve just been weighed and measured. AI has always been a 1v1 duelist/bunk spec.

The nerf is fine.

The nerf won’t make any significant difference.

Saiyan.1704:

So turrets are now as weak as spirit weapons, minionmancers and spirit rangers.

Yet you all think that Turrets should last longer than other AI classes? Nope. You’ve just been weighed and measured. AI has always been a 1v1 duelist/bunk spec.

The nerf is fine.

So you’re claiming that engineers are supposed to be an inferior class. I wonder if you’re even aware of it.

Tell me, what should make up for the lack of a second weapon?

GrandHaven.1052:

The nerf won’t make any significant difference.

Well, that’s not correct either. It won’t make any difference versus people that ignored the turrets. It will make them completely useless versus people who target them (cause they’ll be obliterated). And it won’t change the playstyle at all, cause it will be still mostly passive.
Oh, if they wanted to remove turrets from pvp, they most likely succedeed. Apart from the healing turret (that no one uses as a proper turret) no one will use them again after being mauled in a couple matches.

Er.. Kits…. Lots of kits…

Bleeding turrets? That feels so wrong.

Peutrifectus.4830:

Er.. Kits…. Lots of kits…

…that are optional, not given by default, and require utility slots to be used. Even if it was so, engineer would end up paying a price – lack of a second weapon – and then paying additional prices – in utility slots – to make up for it.

Still, a full turret, gadget or elixir build has no second main weapon, but has no kit either.
Thus either the design is flawed, or the answer is wrong and something else has to make up for it. Retry.

“So you’re claiming that engineers are supposed to be an inferior class. I wonder if you’re even aware of it.

Tell me, what should make up for the lack of a second weapon?"

@Manuhell, I’ve never proclaimed that Engineers are suppose to be inferior, nor have I ever said they needed a nerf.

Sounds like a rehtorical question but sure I’ll bite.
I would trade Any of my weapons just to have one of your kits. My kingdom for that Gear shield of yours.

“Lack of weapons” is a poor excuse to have tougher AI compared to everyone else. You lack weapons because you have them as kits. Everyone knows this…

As a turret engi:

Crits: I’m totally fine with that. Just increase turret hp by about 20% then to make up for the 2%-80% more damage, the turrets will take.
Conditions: Only, if turrets will also benefit from boons! Don’t be lazy and do things asymmetrical. Either both or neither.

Saiyan.1704:

“So you’re claiming that engineers are supposed to be an inferior class. I wonder if you’re even aware of it.

Tell me, what should make up for the lack of a second weapon?"

I’ve never proclaimed that Engineers are suppose to be inferior, nor have I ever said they needed a nerf.

Sounds like a rehtorical question but sure I’ll bite.
I would trade Any of my weapons just to have one of your kits. My kingdom for that Gear shield of yours.

Then i guess i shall just redirect you to the answer i’ve done above (or on the previous page).

Saiyan.1704:

“Lack of weapons” is a poor excuse to have tougher AI compared to everyone else.

But you did say that turrets must be equal to the other AI utilities you described. If they are, and the engineer still lacks a weapon, what can make it equal?
Obviously, either there is something, or the engineer is inherently inferior.

Like saying removing stealth, blinds,ports and evades from thieves wont affect em. I mean they still deal damage right?

The nerf will do the job in removing them alright.

If the way in which this is done is good or not or even if we should base our balance on removing things at all is another question.

But for now i suppose it will have to do for another year.

Reading the proposals and the intention behind them just made me wonder about one thing:
Arena.Net wants to bring Turrets in line with the rest of the game. The proposal:
-turrets should be able to take critical hits.
-turrets should be able to receive conditions.

Now let’s get the less problematic part off the table first: Critical hits. To bring the turrets fully in line, they should also be able to dish out critical hits, if they can receive critical hits. Maybe as a side effect of the overcharge ability. Just let the next 3 hits crit.

Now, to the ugly part. Conditions.
If turrets can receive conditions, they also need to be affected by condition cleanse, as condi cleanse has been devised as the game’s counterplay to condi pressure. Which means, they need to be affected by stuff like shouts, etc.
Now for the truly ugly part:
If turrets are able to receive conditions, and thus affected by condi removal, of which some converts the conditions straight into boons, they also need to be affected by boons as a logical conclusion. This includes, but is not limited to, the very boons, they put out via the experimental turrets trait. They will also be affected by stuff like guardian virtues(dat burn), venom share(yay for 12 seconds of sequenced immobilizes) and more crazy stuff like the passive regeneration effects granted by guardians and elementalists.

What this does, if done properly:
Turrets will die to a thief dropping caltrops, but turrets(with experimental turrets) won’t budge an inch, when a non-zerk class tries to take them down with physical damage due to a high regeneration and protection uptime. Zerker classes may be able to deal actual damage, but will take heaps of retaliation damage, while the high fury uptime on the turrets will just melt them. And don’t get me started with the new meta of bringing a venom share thief alongside the turret engi to just melt everyone on point.

Getting back to crits, having them dish out crits, while being unaffected by fury seems kind of pointless as well, as it kind of just adds random elements to the game, which can’t be influenced in any shape or form… Unless, hint, hint, the crit chance scales with the precision of the engineer.

Okay, so let’s talk about what CAN be done.
The condition idea needs to disappear. It’s just ludicrous, because no matter, how it gets implemented, it will either be a ludicrous blanket nerf to turrets(have fun dropping a supply crate into a fight with caltrops on the ground) or a ludicrous blanket buff(those abominations with fury, retal, perma regeneration and a high passive protection uptime), but no matter what, nobody will be satisfied with the outcome.

As for the critical idea:
How about we have turrets take critical hits and dish out critical strikes. That seems fair, if we finally have turrets scale in every single regard with the engi’s attributes.
The big problem currently is, that turrets dish out far more damage than any other class with a sentinel’s amulet, or even a soldier’s amulet, could ever do. Their stationary nature still makes them sitting ducks, so that’s generally only a problem for unprepared players with copy/pasted meta builds but no clue, how to adjust their builds to the opponents in the game, or for players, who couldn’t prepare because their opponents suddenly switched to 4x turret engi at the 1 second mark of the match countdown… But still, how about we leave this whole “can be tanky with hard hitting summon” and “can be hard hitting with tanky summon” thing to the ranger?

So what about we just have turrets scale with the engi’s stats, so a tanky engi gets tanky turrets and a hard hitting engi gets hard hitting turrets? Yes, it will probably switch around a lot of builds, but think of the benefits for PvE. It will open up turrets as a means to drop down a hard hitting ranged attacker in a boss fight. Leave the condition question until after turrets scale with stats, can get critted and can take crits. Right now, changing anything about the interaction of turrets with effects will only cause a huge outroar of the non-engi players, when they realize, that what has been declared a nerf has actually been a giant buff in disguise. We don’t want this, there is enough discrimination against engineer players already.

I suggest to make the same changes to the Training Dummies, located currently in Silverwastes. They are useless right now, since you cannot crit or apply conditions to them. I always enjoyed to smash a dummy in MMOs and see big crits when tested different PVE builds, and I always missed such thing in GW2.

Josh Davis.6015:

Hi all,

As a follow-up to my post from last Friday, I wanted to give you a run-down of the changes we’re looking to make to the engineer’s turrets:

• Engineer turrets will be able to be critically hit. (Edit for clarity: this change means the turrets can take critical hits against them, but they still cannot deal critical hits themselves.)
• Engineer turrets will be able to be affected by conditions.

Considering most minions/summoned pets are already susceptible to the aforementioned changes we feel that this is a fair way to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. These changes should only slightly affect the viability of turrets in PvE/WvW (low creature crit chance/condition application), while providing for more counterplay against turrets.

We’d love to hear your feedback on these changes. Feel free to respond below with your comments.

-Grouch

I’m not a fan of turrets but if you want to rationalise those changes why won’t you make turrets affected by boons? Most minions are.

Considering that turrets already hit hard enough to solo squishies like thieves and mesmers, I don’t think that they need to have critical hits, even if that does sound nice in theory.

Gotta disagree with OP. This is pretty much the best fix possible short of overhauling the class.

I just don’t get why AI builds need to be viable.

They really don’t.

Where did you get the idea that turrets could get boons like Fury and Retaliation?

You need to rethink your entire post.

Laraley.7695:

I just don’t get why AI builds need to be viable.

They really don’t.

Are you of the opinion that all builds should be zerker?
Because condi is cheese.
Because bunkers are not killable.
Etc.

GrandHaven.1052:

Laraley.7695:

I just don’t get why AI builds need to be viable.

They really don’t.

Are you of the opinion that all builds should be zerker?
Because condi is cheese.
Because bunkers are not killable.
Etc.

Where did I mention zerker or condi builds?

Are you one of the people who are so bad that they can’t play anything else but AI builds?

I can be passive agressive, too.

Chaith.8256:

Where did you get the idea that turrets could get boons like Fury and Retaliation?

You need to rethink your entire post.

It comes as a logical consequence of taking what was said literal and following up, applying current game logic to the proposal.
The stated goal is to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. They even drew comparisons to other minions and pets. However, if you apply current minion logic to turrets, then the only way to really bring them inline with current mechanics is to have them affected by boons. Anything else is not “bringing them inline”, it’s just nerfing turrets for the sake of nerfing them, while sugarcoating it by drawing comparisons to other elements of the game, while leaving out large parts of the picture.
It’s literally doing things by half. If turrets become fully fledged minions, then have them be affected by both conditions and boons, have the community complain and revert it 3 days later in a hotfix.
If they don’t, then let them be turrets. Thing is, boons are for large parts also part of the balancing scheme for conditions. You can negate some condition damage by applying regeneration, you can negate vulnerability by applying protection and you can negate weakness by applying all those damage boosting boons.
You can’t just put in an isolated part of something, which was balanced around the idea of working as a whole and call it “bringing x back in line with the rest of the game.”

First, I drew a picture of what “bringing them in line with the rest of the game” would truly mean, when logically applied to the way, the game currently works,
Then, I proposed a change, which would be inline with most of the current game logic(excepts for crits on inanimate objects) and balance out the turrets by making them more versatile, in this way buffing them for dungeon play.

naphack.9346:

Chaith.8256:

Where did you get the idea that turrets could get boons like Fury and Retaliation?

You need to rethink your entire post.

It comes as a logical consequence of taking what was said literal and following up, applying current game logic to the proposal.
The stated goal is to bring turrets more inline with the rest of the game. They even drew comparisons to other minions and pets. However, if you apply current minion logic to turrets, then the only way to really bring them inline with current mechanics is to have them affected by boons. Anything else is not “bringing them inline”, it’s just nerfing turrets for the sake of nerfing them, while sugarcoating it by drawing comparisons to other elements of the game, while leaving out large parts of the picture.
It’s literally doing things by half. If turrets become fully fledged minions, then have them be affected by both conditions and boons, have the community complain and revert it 3 days later in a hotfix.
If they don’t, then let them be turrets. Thing is, boons are for large parts also part of the balancing scheme for conditions. You can negate some condition damage by applying regeneration, you can negate vulnerability by applying protection and you can negate weakness by applying all those damage boosting boons.
You can’t just put in an isolated part of something, which was balanced around the idea of working as a whole and call it “bringing x back in line with the rest of the game.”

First, I drew a picture of what “bringing them in line with the rest of the game” would truly mean, when logically applied to the way, the game currently works,
Then, I proposed a change, which would be inline with most of the current game logic(excepts for crits on inanimate objects) and balance out the turrets by making them more versatile, in this way buffing them for dungeon play.

You speak as if anything between minions and old (live) turrets would fall into unacceptable territory. Why? So what if they aren’t adapted to be entirely as minions are? If Turrets aren’t required to stay congruent to a rigid standard of ‘minions’, they can be flexible enough to be balanced better.

I personally think that the Anet proposed changes will be quite positive. I would come over to your side if you could provide an argument as to why Arenanet’s proposal would be harmful to the game. From my stance, this turret nerf is a complete godsend, that will greatly improve the playability of this game.

The best fix for turrets would be to just have them scale with the engineer’s attributes, have them both take crits and deal crits and stay the hell away from any changes to their interaction with condis, because let’s face it, the thing, people really complain about is not, how much damage, the turrets deal, but rather, how hard to kill the engi is in comparison to the damage, the turrets can dish out.

PvE: Turrets may become viable choices in Dungeons.
sPvP: Tanky turret specs won’t bring rifle and rocket turrets anymore, but rather net turret and toolkit. The turrets of these specs won’t deal a whole lot of damage anymore, so it would be more about decapping the engineers, rather than destroying the turrets, so you don’t get horribly murdered. At the same time, a damage focused turret build might emerge, but this time around with a more squishy engi behind it all.

Now if we could please have all objects affected by conditions, as they should be…

By making them die in a few seconds?
Oh, if you want to “improve the playability” by completely removing turrets from any game mode (and since they were effectively used only in pvp, that’s what will happen, with the exclusion of the healing one…that is never used as a turret, anyway), well, that will surely happen. Can’t be otherwise, they’re basically a bunch of disadvantages glued together now.
But at least spare me the rethoric of talking about it as a “positive” change. They’re smitherbooning a category of utilities into oblivion instead of giving it some decent redesign. That’s the most lazy, negative choice they could have done.

Turret Engi is OP but Shoutbow warrior is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but Guardian is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but Burst Mesmer is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but Power Necro is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but 50s cd is ok.

Bias logic.

You think that if something is able be to critically hit, it has to have the ability to do so, too? Same with conditions and cleanse. You don’t have to balance things like this, you can just increase their base damage. However, turrets base damage is still VERY strong. They can be positioned outside AOE and midair, therefore they are less vunerable than other AI which needs to be in range to do some kind of damage, turrets do not.

After all, AI builds should be completely removed from the game, it does not promote a better gameplay or heatlhy enviroment. AKF builds are just bad.

Here is a grand idea since turrets will be like all other minions being able to be crit and hit with condis probably a good thing, why dont turrets get a rework.
1:update turret traits for cds and bring them on par with other classes pet style traits perhaps a trait that allows them to repair themselves for a percentage of the damage they deal
2:Turrets are now burst type kills and can crit and benefit from your power/ferocity
3:Rework overcharges rifle turret should fire a channeled stream of rounds for a burst ability, Rocket turret is changed to a targeted aoe barrage of smaller missiles, thumper is fine, net turret fires a net wall like the underwater speargun, flame turret fires a 360 aoe glob of napalm at targeted location with having the ability to crit and increased damage they would actually be useful while they are out.
4: Overcharge now destroys the turret after the effect ends.
My thoughts on this is it keeps the turrets from being a complete AI build and more on timing of your overcharge activation for burst and control being that if you miss with it or just bad timing you dont get another chance until you can lay the turret again this can be balanced as well as allowing a turret cd trait. Since they will be far more squishy I think having traits that allow some form of damage to repair would allow for those few precious seconds to allow the use of overcharging without it dying instantly. In short I think this would be a welcome and fun change making turrets scary while out, but not a complete lay and walk away build as it is now.

Change the lore too, I don’t know all the info, but it sounds ridiculous that metal can take poison damage and confusion damage.

Maybe say they have the essence of the asura inside them which makes them part alive.

Okay, why it would be harmful to the game:

1) PvE: Turrets currently don’t see much use in PvE. Further nerfing them doesn’t seem to be the way to proceed here. If we were to nerf turret builds in PvP, we might aswell do it in a way, that fixes them for PvE.
2) Supply Crate. The crate drops turrets. Just so you know. Many builds run the crate even without having any traits like turret plating, etc. As a result, the dropped turrets are rather squishy. With the proposed changes, just dropping a supply crate on top of a field of caltrops would be enough to melt away a flame turret within seconds.
3) Counterplay and build diversity. I have mentioned this topic above. Turret engis have no counterplay whatsoever to condi builds anyway. Condis are effective at taking down the turreteers already. This change will not nerf turret builds, it will outright remove them from the game. Just straight up removing one and a half specs from the game(decap engi also looks sad) without giving anything in return is not, how you do things. It’s not like turret engis are holding back or overshadowing any other specs, which might emerge, if they are gone. People don’t play turret engi because they want to play engi. They play turret engi, because they want to bunker. And if they can’t do it with engi, they will just go back to bunker guardian.
4) Game immersion, realism. While not as important to PvP players, some PvE players may really rustle their jimmies over how their turrets are suddenly bleeding to death… or confused… Or crippled. Let’s not start about how ridiculous turrets are in the first place, no reason to make it even more ridiculous.

So let’s bring forth my argument again:
Have turrets scale with the engineer’s attribute. Have their vitality, their toughness, their precision, their ferocity, their healing power… Have all of these attributes be subject to the engineer’s attribute spread. The current problem is not turrets doing a lot of damage, it’s not turreteers being unkillable. The problem is, that the turreteer can do both at the same time. The turreteers can sit at 27k hp, dodge all over the place and cc their opponent, while their turrets deal damage almost equivalent to that of a powermancer.

What will this change do?
1) PvE: Turrets, which now have ferocity and precision, and thus can critical hit, will be useful for dungeons.
2) Supply Crate: This is still a bit of a bummer. It can be amazing or it can be rubbish, depending on what turret you draw… But it’s still better than any blanket nerf to turrets.
3) Build diversity: There will still be turret builds. However, they will change. Tanky decap/bunker turreteers will run around with heal turret, thumper, net turret(now no longer destroyed in 2 hits), toolkit, crate. Running into a circle will get you thrown out and locked in place, but you won’t exactly die. There’s also the possibility of a dps oriented turret build with rocket and rifle turrets and elixir s or toolkit. Again, turrets are actually useful.
4) Game immersion: Unaffected.

Laraley.7695:

You think that if something is able be to critically hit, it has to have the ability to do so, too? Same with conditions and cleanse. You don’t have to balance things like this, you can just increase their base damage. However, turrets base damage is still VERY strong. They can be positioned outside AOE and midair, therefore they are less vunerable than other AI which needs to be in range to do some kind of damage, turrets do not.

After all, AI builds should be completely removed from the game, it does not promote a better gameplay or heatlhy enviroment. AKF builds are just bad.

And like other people, you just bundle all the “AI builds” together without considering that classes are different from each others.

Other “AI builds” aren’t in a class that lacks a second main weapon without any compensation, to start with.
And neither block proper access to their class mechanic – as you can’t even use the proper turret toolbelt until it gets destroyed.
So a turret engineer has nothing more than a main weapon, the turret he has placed down, and overcharges every now and then.
Make them glass, and that engineer will have no utilities most of the time, and just some toolbelts to rely upon. And no, those toolbelts don’t make up for a class mechanic, second weapon and utilities all together.
Thus it will just be terrible, and people won’t use them.

Or they could have redesigned the whole concept of turrets. Made autoattacks less prominent and overcharges more a matter of micromanagement. Or changed how turrets work at a whole.
And it would have been a far, better work.

But people don’t care about them being usable, in any form. They just want them gone. And this is what they’re giving them.

Manuhell.2759:

Laraley.7695:

You think that if something is able be to critically hit, it has to have the ability to do so, too? Same with conditions and cleanse. You don’t have to balance things like this, you can just increase their base damage. However, turrets base damage is still VERY strong. They can be positioned outside AOE and midair, therefore they are less vunerable than other AI which needs to be in range to do some kind of damage, turrets do not.

After all, AI builds should be completely removed from the game, it does not promote a better gameplay or heatlhy enviroment. AKF builds are just bad.

And like other people, you just bundle all the “AI builds” together without considering that classes are different from each others.

Other “AI builds” aren’t in a class that lacks a second main weapon without any compensation, to start with.
And neither block proper access to their class mechanic – as you can’t even use the proper turret toolbelt until it gets destroyed.
So a turret engineer has nothing more than a main weapon, the turret he has placed down, and overcharges every now and then.
Make them glass, and that engineer will have no utilities most of the time, and just some toolbelts to rely upon. And no, those toolbelts don’t make up for a class mechanic, second weapon and utilities all together.
Thus it will just be terrible, and people won’t use them.

Or they could have redesigned the whole concept of turrets. Made autoattacks less prominent and overcharges more a matter of micromanagement. Or changed how turrets work at a whole.
And it would have been a far, better work.

But people don’t care about them being usable, in any form. They just want them gone. And this is what they’re giving them.

I don’t really care, if turret engi is not viable anymore, then it’s good for the game. It should NOT be viable even.

Josh Davis.6015:

Vilkata.4725:

Will boons and AoE healing also apply to turrets like other minions?

Turrets will not be able to receive boons.

well that sounds unfair cause at the same time will be able to receive conditions but no boons?

i believe they can recieve also fear, they will be just unable to work, they are unable to move anyway…

actually i would like to see the engineer to be able to carry his turret on his back! Just while the engi carry his turret those will not able to use their abilities and the engi will have a skill to drop them back on both skill bar and utility bar. Also while the engi carries them he will be able to gain some extra hp (depending on the type of turret) or an hp bar and when this bar goes down the turret is distroyed and get get a much higher cooldown for the skill to drop a new turret.. Or they could transformed into a mech armor and depended on the type of the turret they could offer various boons until their helth bar goes down or the engineer dismantle them.

sorry for my bad english i am tired to check the text in word :p

Laraley.7695:

I don’t really care, if turret engi is not viable anymore, then it’s good for the game. It should NOT be viable even.

That was what i was saying above, you know. You don’t even want them redesigned, just made useless, and just because you hate “turrets”. Even going as far as saying that’s good for the game. Hah.

They didn’t even fix hobosacks yet and you want them to plague us with robosacks?
No, please, at least have mercy.

Laraley.7695:

Manuhell.2759:

Laraley.7695:

You think that if something is able be to critically hit, it has to have the ability to do so, too? Same with conditions and cleanse. You don’t have to balance things like this, you can just increase their base damage. However, turrets base damage is still VERY strong. They can be positioned outside AOE and midair, therefore they are less vunerable than other AI which needs to be in range to do some kind of damage, turrets do not.

After all, AI builds should be completely removed from the game, it does not promote a better gameplay or heatlhy enviroment. AKF builds are just bad.

And like other people, you just bundle all the “AI builds” together without considering that classes are different from each others.

Other “AI builds” aren’t in a class that lacks a second main weapon without any compensation, to start with.
And neither block proper access to their class mechanic – as you can’t even use the proper turret toolbelt until it gets destroyed.
So a turret engineer has nothing more than a main weapon, the turret he has placed down, and overcharges every now and then.
Make them glass, and that engineer will have no utilities most of the time, and just some toolbelts to rely upon. And no, those toolbelts don’t make up for a class mechanic, second weapon and utilities all together.
Thus it will just be terrible, and people won’t use them.

Or they could have redesigned the whole concept of turrets. Made autoattacks less prominent and overcharges more a matter of micromanagement. Or changed how turrets work at a whole.
And it would have been a far, better work.

But people don’t care about them being usable, in any form. They just want them gone. And this is what they’re giving them.

I don’t really care, if turret engi is not viable anymore, then it’s good for the game. It should NOT be viable even.

If you hate diversity, how about: Remove all classes from the game, remove all traits from the game, remove all amulets from the game.
Have everyone play as a d/d ele with celestial and 0/2/0/6/6 build and cantrips. Then everyone will be happy, right?

Reducing build diversity is never healthy to a game and it’s never a “good” thing. Reducing tactical depth and the requirement to think, before you act, is even worse for a game. By systematically removing everything which strays from the “norm”, whatever this “norm” may actually be, is what kills games.

Rainiris.1975:

Turret Engi is OP but Shoutbow warrior is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but Guardian is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but Burst Mesmer is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but Power Necro is ok.
Turret Engi is OP but 50s cd is ok.

Bias logic.

Yeah because ANet prefer to listen to the vocal minorities.

Isn’t it better just to increase overcharge timers and decrease overall health and damage done by turrets? This proposed change seems drastic and turrets will become useless in most other cases, pve mostly…

Manuhell.2759:

Laraley.7695:

I don’t really care, if turret engi is not viable anymore, then it’s good for the game. It should NOT be viable even.

That was what i was saying above, you know. You don’t even want them redesigned, just made useless, and just because you hate “turrets”. Even going as far as saying that’s good for the game. Hah.

No, I said I don’t care and I really don’t. Yes, it is good for the game if there are not builds like turret engi viable. You know why? Because as a player I appreciate good gameplay and fighting people who are skilled. Turret engis promote bad play, it takes literally no skill to play one, therefore creating an enviroment when being good at the game means nothing. Since this is pvp and ANet wants to go esports, builds like this should never exist. In ranked, unranked, tournament, anywhere.

naphack.9346:

If you hate diversity, how about: Remove all classes from the game, remove all traits from the game, remove all amulets from the game.
Have everyone play as a d/d ele with celestial and 0/2/0/6/6 build and cantrips. Then everyone will be happy, right?

Reducing build diversity is never healthy to a game and it’s never a “good” thing. Reducing tactical depth and the requirement to think, before you act, is even worse for a game. By systematically removing everything which strays from the “norm”, whatever this “norm” may actually be, is what kills games.

It’s not diversity, every engi plays turrets because it’s that much effective. Why should we remove all classes and amulets? Just removing turret engi is enough. The game needs diversity, yes but not in AI builds.

By playing turret engi you reduce tactical depth and the requirement to think.

I don’t play turrets eng. i can agree with the nerf but you should even compensate reducing the cd of the longest ones . The problem of this change is that turrets will become unusefull in any aspect of the game ( they are really usable only in pvp now) . You should rethink to them or delete them and put something else usable in someway …

Thank you for this! Although, as a thief, I don’t think my “beelding” stacks makes sense on a metallic object, I do think fire and electricity would. Also, please fix the turrets in the air and I do think that the turrets should go away if the engi gets to far. Nothing more annoying than turrets where the engi is a million miles away. We can’t do that with any other summon, why can engis?

Laraley.7695:

No, I said I don’t care and I really don’t. Yes, it is good for the game if there are not builds like turret engi viable. You know why? Because as a player I appreciate good gameplay and fighting people who are skilled. Turret engis promote bad play, it takes literally no skill to play one, therefore creating an enviroment when being good at the game means nothing. Since this is pvp and ANet wants to go esports, builds like this should never exist. In ranked, unranked, tournament, anywhere.

Do you even understand what “redesigned” means?
Cause you’re talking like any “turret” skill must and will inevitably end up like that.

Manuhell.2759:

Laraley.7695:

No, I said I don’t care and I really don’t. Yes, it is good for the game if there are not builds like turret engi viable. You know why? Because as a player I appreciate good gameplay and fighting people who are skilled. Turret engis promote bad play, it takes literally no skill to play one, therefore creating an enviroment when being good at the game means nothing. Since this is pvp and ANet wants to go esports, builds like this should never exist. In ranked, unranked, tournament, anywhere.

Do you even understand what “redesigned” means?
Cause you’re talking like any “turret” skill must and will inevitably end up like that.

I do. Do you understand what ‘’I don’t care because I don’t think AI builds should be viable at all.’’means?