Guild Wars 2

Corrosion is a great idea for inanimate objects
This is the best suggestion in this thread

Believe it or not, I sat here and read pages 1-12 in one session. Sad way to waste a day off, right? Guess what I saw? The same thing one sees in every professions’ forum.

I’m not going to defend engineer (even though it’s my baby and my only reason for coming to, and beta testing, Guild Wars 2), nor will I assault it with the claims I’ve seen in this thread. I will be telling you why you haven’t killed a turret engineer and how to:

First off, I’d like everyone to understand that I do play turret engineer, but it is not my sole build. Turrets were the only reason I actually decided to play an engineer, as most did early on – I even leveled as such. I prefer the flamethrower today. When the game was first released and we all hit max, it was nades or go home (Looks like we’re heading there again, huh?) Grenades took a nerf, I was thrilled. I could finally place my hands on the other abilities of the class. I’ve taken many breaks between day 1 and now. I’ve watched things change, the same with the players. I can imagine everyone here is very excited about the nerf to engineers, but this will only lead to uglier meta builds which will upset the community further. At least with a powerful bunker build, you didn’t have to worry about a big scary engineer coming into your house and wrecking the place.

Now that we’re at the point of a ‘big scary engineer’ and his AI, allow me to explain why you think Turrets are hard:

1. Engineer uses a gun. You think because a turret engineer uses a gun that it makes more sense to melee him? no. If you read the engineer’s rifle abilities, you will see that the closer you get – the harder he’s going to hit you. At his/her leisure, he/she can change the distance between the two of you.

2. Most players I see (especially in unranked) are too busy rushing into pvp and most likely have heavy metal music playing, pretending they are an ‘ultimate anime hero’. Thieves thinking they’re a super-fast Kirito, Warriors pretending they’re that massively powerful guy with a greatsword, guardians the same; warlocks the big, bad scary villain. Hey, maybe not, but that’s how I see them running at me (and as I’ve seen with their very anime-oriented names). You are jumping into the middle of all of my turrets, meleeing me? You’ve jumped into the spider’s web. You will die. There is no thought put into anything that you have done. (heck most of these players aren’t even max level in the matches I play, especially judging by how recklessly they attack a control point).

3. All I see in pvp (and pve) are zerker builds. Warriors, Guardians, whatever just throwing their faces into content and pvp. The strategy for pve (The standard 5mans) is just to stand on top of one another and sit in AOEs? Honestly, tell that to anyone in any other mmo and they will laugh at you, perhaps remove you from their group. When we first started pve content, we avoided aoes and followed mechanics. Now everyone sits in ((Crafted)) best in slot gear, just standing in front of a boss (again stacking on one another). That tells me a lot about the level of strategy that is going through the average player’s mind these days. So these same guys are going into pvp expecting to to melee an engineer down? That is not going to happen and here’s why:

4. An engineer’s turrets aren’t to be feared; it’s the rifle and if you haven’t figured this out – you most likely are still trying to figure out why turrets are so powerful. The engineer’s turrets can withstand a lot, but they are worth, and only worth, their cd ability. Once you’ve decided to use your head and LOS, the engineer has auto-attacking turrets and himself. You are losing because you think the engineer is still a threat at this time and (lol yes) you’ve decided to jump into the web and melee the engineer who chooses when to be close – and far – away from you. That’s his/her playing field and he/she’s decided how it’s going to play out. That doesn’t mean that there’s no point in fighting the engineer. The turrets (like have been stated several times in this thread) are stationary. They don’t go anywhere. Use ranged. That’s the engineer’s weakness. You can outrage all of the turrets, except one and pick them off. The engineer becomes vulnerable to defend his turrets by leaving his nest. Have you ever seen a ranger range a bunker engi? They dominate them.

I could list several other points, but that would just further weaken the turret build (by telling you all of the ways to beat one). I honestly think I’ve stated enough.

Instead of being upset with every Turret Engineer, why not at least applaud them for not cheesing their turrets mid-air and not abusing bugs/mechanics in the game and just except that they’re playing a build which is countering your ‘go-in-and-kill’ build. I’ve played against plenty of turret engineers and they do everything wrong. I really hope these aren’t the guys beating you (you know – the ones leaving their turrets alone? Why is that even a complaint? The turrets are a joke without the engineer around). As a turret engineer, as a warrior, as a ranger, as a non-turret engineer: I can confidently say that I’ve rolled many turret engies. I think people need to stop trying to be all offense and no defense and look at other mmos and how those builds work because I can’t think of many pvp builds which as focus glass cannons. Believe me, I could probably hop on one of my alts and be dominated by you on your alt because the alt I am currently on happens to be your main. Why? You know the class. I’d assume that most people who can beat a turret engineer are people who play a turret engineer. It’s simple stuff. If you don’t understand something: Test it yourself or Research it. I hope this made sense to at least someone and I’m sure I’ve missed a couple points I wanted to make, but it’s been a long and unproductive day.
Whatever happens with these nerfs: more annoying builds can be created.
(PS: When you lose, stop whispering hate at players. Very classless)

Josh Davis.6015:

runeblade.7514:

Josh Davis.6015:

DeWolfe.2174:

btw, who uses Turrets in WvW?

Static discharge builds.

I like how you are being cheeky when you have no idea what you are talking about.

SD build isn’t a turret build. They use Rifle turret toolbelt skill, not the rifle turret.

1v1 me bruv!

On a serious note, you should also be using your rifle turret (or any turret in an SD build) for damage purposes . Detonate turret does a flat 1200 damage on instant cast and can be used in succession with Surprise Shot. If you’re using Accelerant Packed Turrets, which you probably are, it’s also an additional CC during your burst combo.

There’s a good guide here if you need more information: http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Engineer_-_Static_Discharge

Its called Static Discharge for a reason.

The lynchpin of the build isn’t Rifle turret. It has something to do with the build name.

Faux.6349:

The turrets are a joke without the engineer around. I think people need to stop trying to be all offense and no defense

As a thief, I do play with defense. 2/0/6/0/6 and while that might not seem ideal I really appreciate the added sustain / condition removal. But with this “try defense” you mention, the turrets take a ridiculous amount of time to kill, even without the engineer nearby because they have a built in 33% damage reduction, huge health pool, CC’s and enough damage to force the player to heal / use CD’s by themselves while they self heal!

The ability to crit them, especially with how tanky they are is necessary in the very least. I think the fact they are going to have conditions being able to apply to them is also a really good idea, but I think it would be overkill if all conditions applied to them.

I remember talking to some of my friends in game and saying it would be great if they were able to be critically struck as well as have conditions applied, but I think conditions should transfer to something like corrision, a stacking condition kind of like bleeds, but it comes from all forms of conditions and perhaps inhibits the self healing of the turrets.

If they could be spammed with torment, poison, bleed, burning and be able to be critically hit on top of that, I think it would render them rather useless and that would be far too much of a change / nerf.

But let’s say they could have a combined minor poison effect with a minor bleed stacking effect up to 15, maybe 25, applied to them with the damage that torment deals while one is standing still that will stack up from all sources of conditions. I find this would be really helpful to the attacker while not completely obliterating them instantly and rendering that engineer build entirely useless at the same time.

I don’t want to see the build being too easy in performance due to the current state of turrets, but I don’t want it to turn into another build of the past that no one uses because Arenanet decided to over nerf or over buff something instead of their “shave balance” philosophy I remember them claiming they were all about long ago.

My vote is make them able to be crit and give them one type of condition applied kind of like what I suggested above, not the entire list of conditions. If that were the case they will inevitably be way too easily killed and it will make non-turret engineers feel pointless to even use turrets, dare I say it would make crate worthless without turret traits to make them even survive a little bit which is definitely a step in the wrong direction for engineer overall, at least IMO.

Those are my thoughts on it, and I’m sorry if someone already mentioned this idea already, I am far too lazy to read through 12 pages of this thread. Also sorry for the possible poor structure of this post, I’m really tired. :l

I just fought against an Engi Cancer build, with a DPS guardian.

Even though I am full Zerker and on a DPS guardian, it took some time to kill 4 turrets, while still having to dodge / LOS their attacks AND dealing with the engi.

I don’t think the proposed change is going to change much, tbh. Not enough.

Bio Flame.4276:

I just fought against an Engi Cancer build, with a DPS guardian.

Even though I am full Zerker and on a DPS guardian, it took some time to kill 4 turrets, while still having to dodge / LOS their attacks AND dealing with the engi.

I don’t think the proposed change is going to change much, tbh. Not enough.

I don’t think I can even bring myself to point out whats wrong with this… lol

It took you a long time to kill 4 turrets…. I guess I said it, why in Kormir’s Light would you attack all 4 turrets, unless the engineer just place them all in a small circle on the point. Regardless, your story sounds really strange; and has nothing to do with balance what so ever. They don’t balance pvp with how long it takes you to kill a bunch of useless turrets. Kill the rocket turret, and focus the engineer. Of course, only attack a point if you know you can take it/decap it in a reasonable time frame. Turret engineers have gotten even weaker as more people finally know how to fight them in ranked. (I only solo queue)

He did place them on the same spot. I could attack them all at the same time, with Scepter or GS. And even though I am DPS guardian, I didn’t exactly kill them fast, no.

So you shouldn’t spout opinions based on wrong assumptions. Makes you look foolish.

Turrets take too long to kill, even with a DPS zerker build. That’s my point. It was not about how big my kitten is, or how uber-leet I can be.
And the point about the incoming changes to turrets IS to kill them faster, so yeah, my point above is totally relevant.
Read before replying.

if u make them crittable and condiable, why not stunable? like all other NPCs

cyclop.5934:

Didn’t read the whole thread.My thoughts are:
1 Turret’s dps must depend of the engineer stats(amulet).It isn’t now.(Right?).You can’t be tanky and do a lot of damage because of turrets.
2 Turrets must be vulnerable to conditions.ATM if you are playing condi, you cant do enough condi pressure because of CC and turrets dmg,and you can’t kill turrets because u have little power.So what am I supposed to do with that if Im playing condi.
You may add a special condition for kind of stuff like turrets and Kyhlo treb (lets call it corrosion).Which is calculated of incoming regular condis so everyone will have a chance to kill it.
3 Maybe recalculate a little turrets trait regen and health.

Can’t do enough condi pressure?
Ever played a trapper ranger against a turreteer? You don’t even need to pretend, you are fighting. Just casually walk onto the point and watch the engineer keel over. CC? What cc? He has Thumper and Rocket turret, that’s it. If he uses Overcharge shot, he’s dead, because that’s his only way to break entangle. Rocket can be evaded easily. Just take the thumper hit or let your drake take it. Then he’s out of cc. Yes, there’s the crate, but that’s on a long cd.

And for everyone, who says, turrets are hard to kill, how about I let you in on a little story?
Yesterday, I played ranked with my turreteer. Actually, I wanted to play one game for my daily, then switch to my thief or ranger, but a player from my team wanted to team up with me, probably because he saw me constantly use detonate heal turret, overcharget shot and thumper to stop stomps/rezzes, so I figured, I’d continue going with turret for the rest of the evening.

One game in particular comes to mind. I was bunkering keep on Niflhel. 2 Guys jump in from the top. One meditation guard, one elementalist. They just stood in the middle of the cap circle, on top of my thumper and did basic dps/might stack rotations. They drove me off the point in 2 seconds and the thumper went down within 4 more seconds.
As the guardian was zerk and the elementalist was either zerk or celestial… Do we really need turrets to go down even faster? Their dps would be about 60% higher with crits.

Let’s be fair. Most people who do not like turret engies are quite bitter (or ‘salty’).
Most people say it requires no skill to play turret engie (sure, I won’t argue). That isn’t a reason to kill off a major Engineer utility composition.
I am not bashing ranger, as I pvp with one. That being said, you mean to tell me it requires more ‘skill’ to press ‘2’ on the longbow?

When I read comments about negativity towards Turret Engineers, they aren’t the most professional statements. What I mean by this:

1. Broken Period/Greater Than keys. “u dont no…wut your talking about… i mean come on its op!” …. …. …. …. … <— These I am referring to.

2. Often aren’t able to construct a proper sentence without swearing and/or abusing simple grammar.

3. Know very little about the class/profession they want to attack in terms of being nerfed (let alone their own profession it seems).

4. Are one of many people complaining (every day) about something on the forums. Just because turret engineers are nerfed, doesn’t mean they won’t find something else to bark at.

5. Refuse to give viable reasons why the build should be nerfed.
“Even though I am full Zerker and on a DPS guardian, it took some time to kill 4 turrets” I believe this was a quote I read. Did I not say previously that people need to stop running glass-cannon builds and become a little more thoughtful about how they defend themselves? Glass cannon builds do not trump tanking/bunker/etc builds.

6. Cheering gleefully because another person’s preference is being eliminated from the equation. I see posts where these whiners (I don’t often claim people to be as such, but it’s truly the noun which they become due to the verb they represent themselves with. They are whining and (now) celebrating another build going down the drain) are asking the entire profession to be nerfed so that nobody wishes to play it. I mean come on (yes, there are posts requesting this). The engineer has been in the mud for a very long time and Turrets weren’t always good. In fact, they used to be terrible and bugged to no end.

If you are going to play with other players, do so with at least some class. Childish humor, jokes, whatever is fine. I don’t understand attacking a player for using a build that works. Please (I insist) come into the forums with something intelligent to say in regards to nerfing the Turret Engineer. The Turret Engineer isn’t the worst thing out there.

One more thing to note:
As I have stated in a previous post, I do not always play a turret engineer. I do enjoy it and it is not ‘all AI’. It really does have a lot to do with the rifle. I have been diagnosed with AD(H)D (but who hasn’t these days, right? lol), OCD and a few other more common fidgety compulsions. I find plenty of ways to keep myself busy with this build and a lot has to do with the player interacting with the turrets and their CDs, along with the rifle’s abilities. If somebody can’t kill a very experienced Ranger/Necromancer/Warrior/<insert class here>, they get all flustered and charge in for retribution. If they lose to an engineer, they simply jump on the hate train (which is aimless) and blame the engineer for winning a 1v1. A lot of players have yet to reach 80 on the profession they pvp with. I don’t understand how they think they are entitled to beat somebody who has been playing theirs for years and earned the knowledge of it.

It only took… how many months to reach this incredibly difficult solution?

Maybe in 10 more years GW2 will be worth playing in any non-casual vein.

With patches every 6 months…I think not even in 10 years will it be worth to play competitively…

Viable reason to nerf turrets? How about their win record atm? It’s abundantly clear that engineers are trampling matches. It would be dishonest to say otherwise.

everyone saying turrets are balanced likely plays turret (or maybe one of the few decent counters like condi rangers but let’s exclude those)…

you should do a simple test: choose a different spec, even one considered by you or by the community equally “easy” and tell us if you’re winning more/less after a few days of testing and if it really is just as easy, especially when you face a turreteer.

Well I can’t wait for this change. Not because turrets are op in all situations, although they are against newer players / pugs, but because almost every game seems to have one and it leads to bad gameplay. Stronger players just 5v4 other two nodes or +1 them, newer players just feed them. Add to that 90% of BMing in losing games comes from turret engi, usually because they don’t understand anything about rotations.

adozu.6398:

everyone saying turrets are balanced likely plays turret (or maybe one of the few decent counters like condi rangers but let’s exclude those)…

you should do a simple test: choose a different spec, even one considered by you or by the community equally “easy” and tell us if you’re winning more/less after a few days of testing and if it really is just as easy, especially when you face a turreteer.

You should do a simple test: Run a trapper ranger or a powermancer against a full celestial stack and see, how it goes.
As long as celestial builds destroy build diversity, I don’t see a reason to nerf a build, which can actually stand up to the celestial meta.

Well since celestial is getting a 10% stat redux’ isn’t that a moot point?

Peutrifectus.4830:

Well since celestial is getting a 10% stat redux’ isn’t that a moot point?

Is that just celestial amulet or pve too?

Take from this what you will, but they know it’s needed as much as turretnerfing;

Quote from Josh;
The amulets will be rebalanced to compensate for the loss of stats originally gained from trait lines.
This is probably as good of a place as any to mention that we’ll also be using this opportunity to rebalance PvP’s celestial amulet to be slightly less effective. We’re probably looking at a 10%~ decrease in overall stats, but this number can change as we draw closer to releasing the core specialization changes.

I feel like they should hold off on the celestial nerf until after the trait stat changes… It might be a non-issue after all, and seems a bit hasty. Unless they tested it already post-changes.

Ithilwen.1529:

Viable reason to nerf turrets? How about their win record atm? It’s abundantly clear that engineers are trampling matches. It would be dishonest to say otherwise.

Please give numbers, some sort of analysis, or anything for someone to justify your opinion. I asked for viable reasons. Not the same nonsense which has been presented by ignorant players this entire thread.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Power-Ranger-Broken

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Necro-after-Rdy-Up-Preview

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Warrior-Builds-Need-More-Skill

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Pin-Down-must-go

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Necro-devs-listening-to-pink-fluffy-unicorn

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/balance-the-poison

There’s always someone who is upset about something.

Josh, I highly suggest you run a few more tests regarding this ‘issue’ before anything is set in stone. It would be a shame to set another profession back to one less build. Turrets have existed – as they have – since release (with a few modifications to improve their competence). Players complaining about turrets are no different than the players complaining about everything else in pvp. If it’s not a turret engineer, it’ll be something else.

I direct my attachment to those I will soon meet in the Mists.

@Faux

That’s pure sophism and bravado. This thread has made it clear that the players not wanting turret nerf are the players who are turret engis.

The win record of turret engis speaks for itself. If the devs don’t believe that, I challenge them to go up against that 5 turret engi team I met the other night. They easily won 500-less than 100 if memory serves.

Exploits and extreme niche stuff, like having two turret engis on a point trading off supply crate ruins the game.

And do you believe that the proposed half-baked nerf to Turrets is going to make a significant impact?

I don’t think so.
The fact that the turrets take no crits and no condi damage is a (very) small part of the problem.
In fact, when people talk about the Cancer Build and complain….do they complain that the turrets don’t take crits/condi damage?
Is it one of the top complaints?

No, it isn’t…

TainoFuerte.8136:

It only took… how many months to reach this incredibly difficult solution?

Maybe in 10 more years GW2 will be worth playing in any non-casual vein.

The technology just isn’t there yet.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Faux
That’s pure sophism and bravado. This thread has made it clear that the players not wanting turret nerf are the players who are turret engis.

So the only ones, who don’t complain are the ones, who actually played the build themselves?
You know what? That sounds totally like…
like…
like…

like every other whine thread about thieves, power rangers, etc.

Well, judging from the livestream it would seem that they’re even cutting down some traits. Rifled turret barrels is no more, and autotool installation is gone as well. Accelerant-packed turrets is partly on default now – only the detonation part.

Basically, only experimental turrets and one that includes both fortified turrets and metal plating remains. And they may have to compete with really good traits, now.

I can’t see a turret build being even worth considering, especially since you’ve got to use a single trait line out of three now. Sure, this means that you could just use a couple ones and a kit, but i guess it would just better use kits, get the other nice traits and leave them alone entirely. With automated medical response gone, they’ll be quite useful.
Using the tool kit to heal turrets wouldn’t be worth it, anyway. With the lack of survivability they’re gonna have, you would have to stay there mauling the turret most of the time. And time you’re spending mauling a turret is time you aren’t spending mauling the other player instead, so you’re just gimping yourself in such a situation. Beside being easy prey for aoes.

I still think it would be better redesigning them entirely. And in doing that, also give some more active gameplay.

FirehawkDAR.9021:

naphack.9346:

Ithilwen.1529:

@Faux
That’s pure sophism and bravado. This thread has made it clear that the players not wanting turret nerf are the players who are turret engis.

So the only ones, who don’t complain are the ones, who actually played the build themselves?
You know what? That sounds totally like…
like…
like…

like every other whine thread about thieves, power rangers, etc.

Now this is what I call pretentious hipster bullcrap.

Shall I tell you who are the ones who don’t complain about turret engies? There are two groups, one of them being those who don’t read the forums. They aren’t all aware of the discussions where metalheads are trying to defend their clearly overpowered build, therefore not giving you the time of day by releasing all the pent up resentment toward you and everybody who trolls the PvP scene by rolling this abomination that shouldn’t have been allowed to exist.
The other group simply doesn’t care as they mostly play PvE and as such, aren’t really affected. So please at least try to sound convincing before resorting to logical fallacies.

Nobody here defends the current state of turrets. The people just don’t want this “solution”, which leaves no room to fine tune, while either making turrets entirely unplayable or not changing anything at all.
If it makes turrets unplayable, any further change needs to consider the changes already made and if it leaves things as they are, again any further change needs to consider the conditon and crit side of things.
There is no way, such a wildly thrown in change will incidentally land just on spot.
The current problem is, that turreteer is too tanky for the damage, he can dish out or deals too much damage for how tanky he is, whichever way you prefer it. The solution is to make turrets take conditions and crits? Seriously? How about changing, what is actually broken?
Turrets need a complete rebalance, not a blanket nerf. Especially because they are hardly ever used in PvE.

Now, if we introduced a new stat scaling to turrets, lowering their base stats, giving them precision and ferocity and making their attributes scale with the engineer attribute spread, we’d be in a better place.

NOT because turrets would magically be in a place, where they are totally balanced, that’s just ridiculous… But we’d be in a spot, where turrets could be tweaked individually. Without throwing a wrench into the usability of some already underused turret skills(hi net turret), without having to worry about making turrets even WORSE for PvE purposes.
With turrets scaling from attributes, tweaks could be made on individual basis both on base stats AND on scaling to find that sweet spot for each individual turret skill, where turrets are both viable for tanky builds, for dps builds AND for PvE without being obnoxious at any point.

The goal shouldn’t be to just take down the turret builds, the goal should be to bring turrets to a spot, where they are easier to balance.
With a blanket nerf, we are still stuck, where we are, balance wise. We still have the same tools to balance turrets, turrets still deal damage independent from the engineer’s stat spread, the rocket turret of a 27k health engi will still slap you for 4k damage, but we will gain no additional tools to tweak turrets to a point, where they are both fun to play and fun to play against.

naphack.9346:

FirehawkDAR.9021:

naphack.9346:

Ithilwen.1529:

@Faux
That’s pure sophism and bravado. This thread has made it clear that the players not wanting turret nerf are the players who are turret engis.

So the only ones, who don’t complain are the ones, who actually played the build themselves?
You know what? That sounds totally like…
like…
like…

like every other whine thread about thieves, power rangers, etc.

Now this is what I call pretentious hipster bullcrap.

Shall I tell you who are the ones who don’t complain about turret engies? There are two groups, one of them being those who don’t read the forums. They aren’t all aware of the discussions where metalheads are trying to defend their clearly overpowered build, therefore not giving you the time of day by releasing all the pent up resentment toward you and everybody who trolls the PvP scene by rolling this abomination that shouldn’t have been allowed to exist.
The other group simply doesn’t care as they mostly play PvE and as such, aren’t really affected. So please at least try to sound convincing before resorting to logical fallacies.

Nobody here defends the current state of turrets. The people just don’t want this “solution”, which leaves no room to fine tune, while either making turrets entirely unplayable or not changing anything at all.
If it makes turrets unplayable, any further change needs to consider the changes already made and if it leaves things as they are, again any further change needs to consider the conditon and crit side of things.
There is no way, such a wildly thrown in change will incidentally land just on spot.
The current problem is, that turreteer is too tanky for the damage, he can dish out or deals too much damage for how tanky he is, whichever way you prefer it. The solution is to make turrets take conditions and crits? Seriously? How about changing, what is actually broken?
Turrets need a complete rebalance, not a blanket nerf. Especially because they are hardly ever used in PvE.

Now, if we introduced a new stat scaling to turrets, lowering their base stats, giving them precision and ferocity and making their attributes scale with the engineer attribute spread, we’d be in a better place.

NOT because turrets would magically be in a place, where they are totally balanced, that’s just ridiculous… But we’d be in a spot, where turrets could be tweaked individually. Without throwing a wrench into the usability of some already underused turret skills(hi net turret), without having to worry about making turrets even WORSE for PvE purposes.
With turrets scaling from attributes, tweaks could be made on individual basis both on base stats AND on scaling to find that sweet spot for each individual turret skill, where turrets are both viable for tanky builds, for dps builds AND for PvE without being obnoxious at any point.

The goal shouldn’t be to just take down the turret builds, the goal should be to bring turrets to a spot, where they are easier to balance.
With a blanket nerf, we are still stuck, where we are, balance wise. We still have the same tools to balance turrets, turrets still deal damage independent from the engineer’s stat spread, the rocket turret of a 27k health engi will still slap you for 4k damage, but we will gain no additional tools to tweak turrets to a point, where they are both fun to play and fun to play against.

The technology for turrets to scale and crit, despite being constructs or ‘gadgets’ (not the Engi Utility type) hasn’t been created yet. Technical limitation!

I have advocated many times for Turrets to scale with user stats and stop being so arbitrarily strong, as a damage focused Turreteer would actually engage enemies by having to play the CC mini-game and position in order to be effective. It’d be much better than nerfing all Turret survivability.

Until that is possible, I think it’s best that Turrets played by Sentinel stat full bunkers disappear from the list of meta builds, and go back to their roots as a crutch for players with no keybinds or knowledge of the game to have a better starting battle strength.

If the possibility opens for Turrets to be a part of a build that is either: damage or utility oriented, or simply not based on full selfish tank-mode & godly A.I auto-attack pressure, then hey, lets please revert and bring the new healthy, skill-scaling, strategy back into the meta.

Until then, pls die in obscurity, auto-attacking Sentinel stat builds. One step at a time guys.

Assuming that the next step ever comes.
Cause usually, it doesn’t.
And since people hate them, no one will care either way…

If we take Evan and Josh’s track record on balancing, the “next” step will be in 3 years or so….

As I’ve said before, the changes weren’t the right ones. That said, just implement them already. It is embarrassing how easy it is to play this spec. It literally takes zero skill and yet does extremely well.

Oh and someone tell Jon P that creating the turret engi as a spirt ranger is a bad idea.

Chaith.8256:

Turrets played by Sentinel stat full bunkers disappear.

simply not based on full selfish tank-mode

There are those of us who DO NOT play that Turret build. There are those of us, at least I do, try to eek whatever team support we can. Those builds are getting hit by this change too. Of course, I know I’m in a minority when JP say’s no one uses that on the AMA.

They may have differing names and differing graphics but, the actual feel and pacing of combat is getting reduced. So small in fact that it could fit inside a Cracker Jack box. Figuratively speaking of course.

whats with the wack a mole approach to balance?

i gave a turret engi a go and maybe played 500 or so ranked matches with it prob another 500 on my ranger

in all that time i didnt see that they were that op – any decent team or just 1 guy who knows how to counter a turret engi can do it pretty effectively – now they dont even have to try

anyway i dont understand why you listen to people who cry without doing any research into how to counter a turret engi

turrets arnt the problem with engies – the decap potential is.. its the only class that has massive decap ability – thats what should be nurfed -

Superform.1067:

whats with the wack a mole approach to balance?

i gave a turret engi a go and maybe played 500 or so ranked matches with it prob another 500 on my ranger

in all that time i didnt see that they were that op – any decent team or just 1 guy who knows how to counter a turret engi can do it pretty effectively – now they dont even have to try

anyway i dont understand why you listen to people who cry without doing any research into how to counter a turret engi

turrets arnt the problem with engies – the decap potential is.. its the only class that has massive decap ability – thats what should be nurfed -

Turrets were too strong, anyone NOT hugging turret engi will acknowledge.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Superform.1067:

whats with the wack a mole approach to balance?

i gave a turret engi a go and maybe played 500 or so ranked matches with it prob another 500 on my ranger

in all that time i didnt see that they were that op – any decent team or just 1 guy who knows how to counter a turret engi can do it pretty effectively – now they dont even have to try

anyway i dont understand why you listen to people who cry without doing any research into how to counter a turret engi

turrets arnt the problem with engies – the decap potential is.. its the only class that has massive decap ability – thats what should be nurfed -

Turrets were too strong, anyone NOT hugging turret engi will acknowledge.

Nope. Anyone not having a clue will acknowledge.
The problem wasn’t as you put it, that turrets were too strong.
The problem was, that one single build, using turrets with a sentinel bunker setup was too strong, but that wasn’t a flaw with the power level of turrets.
Yet instead of addressing the problem at hand, arena.net blanket nerfed an entire skill type. That’s like shelling a village with artillery, because a single terrorist is hiding there.

You’re welcome…… :P
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Allow-turrets-objects-to-take-burn-damage/page/3#post4988744

Thank god it’s finally in. Time for the turret engi players to learn how to play the game.

naphack.9346:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Superform.1067:

whats with the wack a mole approach to balance?

i gave a turret engi a go and maybe played 500 or so ranked matches with it prob another 500 on my ranger

in all that time i didnt see that they were that op – any decent team or just 1 guy who knows how to counter a turret engi can do it pretty effectively – now they dont even have to try

anyway i dont understand why you listen to people who cry without doing any research into how to counter a turret engi

turrets arnt the problem with engies – the decap potential is.. its the only class that has massive decap ability – thats what should be nurfed -

Turrets were too strong, anyone NOT hugging turret engi will acknowledge.

Nope. Anyone not having a clue will acknowledge.
The problem wasn’t as you put it, that turrets were too strong.
The problem was, that one single build, using turrets with a sentinel bunker setup was too strong, but that wasn’t a flaw with the power level of turrets.
Yet instead of addressing the problem at hand, arena.net blanket nerfed an entire skill type. That’s like shelling a village with artillery, because a single terrorist is hiding there.

Turrets = AI
All other AI = Inlfuenced by condi/crits
Engi AI’s = Not influenced by Condi and Crit + much more HP, CC, Regen and Damage than other AI (not fair)

Balance = Job well done.
Its pure logic, if you ask me.

When I was testing turret engi, I was winning fights so easily (vs beginners AND experienced players) which you shouldn’t win

Terrorsquad.2349:

naphack.9346:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Superform.1067:

whats with the wack a mole approach to balance?

i gave a turret engi a go and maybe played 500 or so ranked matches with it prob another 500 on my ranger

in all that time i didnt see that they were that op – any decent team or just 1 guy who knows how to counter a turret engi can do it pretty effectively – now they dont even have to try

anyway i dont understand why you listen to people who cry without doing any research into how to counter a turret engi

turrets arnt the problem with engies – the decap potential is.. its the only class that has massive decap ability – thats what should be nurfed -

Turrets were too strong, anyone NOT hugging turret engi will acknowledge.

Nope. Anyone not having a clue will acknowledge.
The problem wasn’t as you put it, that turrets were too strong.
The problem was, that one single build, using turrets with a sentinel bunker setup was too strong, but that wasn’t a flaw with the power level of turrets.
Yet instead of addressing the problem at hand, arena.net blanket nerfed an entire skill type. That’s like shelling a village with artillery, because a single terrorist is hiding there.

Turrets = AI
All other AI = Inlfuenced by condi/crits
Engi AI’s = Not influenced by Condi and Crit + much more HP, CC, Regen and Damage than other AI (not fair)

Balance = Job well done.
Its pure logic, if you ask me.

When I was testing turret engi, I was winning fights so easily (vs beginners AND experienced players) which you shouldn’t win

Turrets = AI.
All other AI = affected by boons.
Engi’s AI = still not affected by boons.

Balance = job poorly done.
Apply your logic correctly or you might get burnt.

naphack.9346:

Terrorsquad.2349:

naphack.9346:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Superform.1067:

whats with the wack a mole approach to balance?

i gave a turret engi a go and maybe played 500 or so ranked matches with it prob another 500 on my ranger

in all that time i didnt see that they were that op – any decent team or just 1 guy who knows how to counter a turret engi can do it pretty effectively – now they dont even have to try

anyway i dont understand why you listen to people who cry without doing any research into how to counter a turret engi

turrets arnt the problem with engies – the decap potential is.. its the only class that has massive decap ability – thats what should be nurfed -

Turrets were too strong, anyone NOT hugging turret engi will acknowledge.

Nope. Anyone not having a clue will acknowledge.
The problem wasn’t as you put it, that turrets were too strong.
The problem was, that one single build, using turrets with a sentinel bunker setup was too strong, but that wasn’t a flaw with the power level of turrets.
Yet instead of addressing the problem at hand, arena.net blanket nerfed an entire skill type. That’s like shelling a village with artillery, because a single terrorist is hiding there.

Turrets = AI
All other AI = Inlfuenced by condi/crits
Engi AI’s = Not influenced by Condi and Crit + much more HP, CC, Regen and Damage than other AI (not fair)

Balance = Job well done.
Its pure logic, if you ask me.

When I was testing turret engi, I was winning fights so easily (vs beginners AND experienced players) which you shouldn’t win

Turrets = AI.
All other AI = affected by boons.
Engi’s AI = still not affected by boons.

Balance = job poorly done.
Apply your logic correctly or you might get burnt.

Grouch did claim that they might eventually allow Turrets to benefit from boons, but that they were going to see how this change worked out first.

Anymras.5729:

naphack.9346:

Terrorsquad.2349:

naphack.9346:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Superform.1067:

whats with the wack a mole approach to balance?

i gave a turret engi a go and maybe played 500 or so ranked matches with it prob another 500 on my ranger

in all that time i didnt see that they were that op – any decent team or just 1 guy who knows how to counter a turret engi can do it pretty effectively – now they dont even have to try

anyway i dont understand why you listen to people who cry without doing any research into how to counter a turret engi

turrets arnt the problem with engies – the decap potential is.. its the only class that has massive decap ability – thats what should be nurfed -

Turrets were too strong, anyone NOT hugging turret engi will acknowledge.

Nope. Anyone not having a clue will acknowledge.
The problem wasn’t as you put it, that turrets were too strong.
The problem was, that one single build, using turrets with a sentinel bunker setup was too strong, but that wasn’t a flaw with the power level of turrets.
Yet instead of addressing the problem at hand, arena.net blanket nerfed an entire skill type. That’s like shelling a village with artillery, because a single terrorist is hiding there.

Turrets = AI
All other AI = Inlfuenced by condi/crits
Engi AI’s = Not influenced by Condi and Crit + much more HP, CC, Regen and Damage than other AI (not fair)

Balance = Job well done.
Its pure logic, if you ask me.

When I was testing turret engi, I was winning fights so easily (vs beginners AND experienced players) which you shouldn’t win

Turrets = AI.
All other AI = affected by boons.
Engi’s AI = still not affected by boons.

Balance = job poorly done.
Apply your logic correctly or you might get burnt.

Grouch did claim that they might eventually allow Turrets to benefit from boons, but that they were going to see how this change worked out first.

Like this current nerf, that’s also to appease the masses going into the upcoming expansion. This time, it’s meant to appease the turreteers, who were persecuted in the witch hunt.

About time this happened, now I can die happy.

The age of cancer turrets is officially over. All of you skill-less turret engis can go back to pve now or reroll. PVP is supposed to take some kind of skill and thought. Every great engi I knew that played turrets absolutely hated it. Glad to finally go back to the many other great builds out there for engi.

today something that didn’t happen in weeks happened… i played a match with no turrets in it. had fun.

Well at least you guys can believe me now when I said it’d kill it off. Of course, many were okay with that, but those who doubted me and said I “didn’t have enough information”… Well there ya go.

Who cares if it was killed off. As someone who has played aince release I have never seen nor heard of people having so little fun as when they played against turrets.

Well, devs should care, since it is their game and they made a whole category of utilities useless when used as they’re supposed to (no, Grouch, using turrets as something to detonate for an additional SD activation shouldn’t be the actual use of a turret).

But since they’re the one who voluntarily killed them off without even thinking of a rebalance or (better) a redesign (since nothing short of a redesign of the overcharge system or turrets as a whole could make them more active)…well, i suppose that no one of importance, as a fact, cares.

Can you please nerf machine gun rangers now? Please? The damage they do from that range should be the next thing to fix on the list.

Funny, history of turrets make a full circle, at start of the game almost no one used them cause of the humongus hit box, then they made them usable by fixing this and now again almost no one will ever use them due to a fact that they now die extremly fast, as if they didnt die fast enough before.