Guild Wars 2

Protection is a boon, but is way more stronger than toughness.

All classes have access to Toughness, but not all classes have access to protection.
Before hot was not a big problem, but now it is.

I made some tries with a thief and both necks marauder and knight.
from 2029 armor to 3229 armor.

I lost vitality, which is better against condition, but the toughness gained was a joke.

is not that i die “meanwhile” during the fight ( it would be something to have a fight and lose because the enemy class is a bit more op or just more skilled the player ).
Simply there’s no chance to face other Marauder classes, cause they deal massive damage, and when you try to trade you lose instantly all your life.

For an instance, and engineer could kill me by 2S + 3S and a guardian just by traps.
Normally, with marauder equipment, you are gonna die the same way ( maybe a little faster, but due to high hp there’s not that difference ).

Incrasing toughness effects and lowering protection effects could solve the problem.
The same damage reduction from having both, but reverted benefits ( something like, toughness incrase effectivenes and protection reduce 10% physical damage ).

Or at least it would be nice to know how to play a zerk class with no sustain ( incoming balances are not going to nerf damage from guardian traps or scrapper. They are going to rule the meta cause nothing has been done meanwhile ).

If we are going to a non bunker meta, then why some marauder classes are tanky and deal massive random dmg?
And also, if we re to move again to a bunker meta, why some classes are not bunker/dps?

Actually as thief i have to roam, try to steal boss, aoe poison, fight the other thief ( it could be harder if you are S vs a d/p Blind/stealth spammer )… but is that possible have i to turn back if on a contested point stand another zerk? or just get downed by walking into a point cause half life?

well, i am talking too much about thief class, but still the question remains:
how can a class trade damage for survival if it simply can’t?

All boons need the vigor treatment and in 1 swoop the whole power creep goes away. But espicially protection and regen. I would lower regen by 20% and make prot a 20% damage reduction vs other players

Oh, and let’s delete the classes without vit/toughness that rely on those said (removable/corruptable) boons to have a chance to step out of the base.

Oh, and let’s delete every classes without boonstrip/corruption watching those Spammers getting all the cakes while facerolling on the keyboard and you can’t do kitten all against it…

Survival isn’t just about how much damage you can take before you die. It’s also about how much you can straight up avoid. That’s why thieves have more evades, blinks, and stealth than any other class.

This means you have a high skill floor active defense that requires you to anticipate and actively make decisions to keep damage from hitting you and yea, it’s unforgiving if you miss a dodge/blind/stealth, but that’s just the nature of the class. It’s much different from other classes that can face tank until their passive invuln procs, but it’s not inherently worse.

There’s no skill at all.
Before hot was about skill, now it’s a slaughtering.

If you think thief actually can trade and have something to do except what i wrote before, you are welcome.

I would like to dare and play like before hot, but due to new classes, thief simply can’t.

Aggrostemma.1703:

Oh, and let’s delete every classes without boonstrip/corruption watching those Spammers getting all the cakes while facerolling on the keyboard and you can’t do kitten all against it…

Give every class the same hp pool/toughness/power scaling and an actual active defensive mechanic and i’ll agree with cutting down prot/regen.

Shirlias.8104:

There’s no skill at all.
Before hot was about skill, now it’s a slaughtering.

If you think thief actually can trade and have something to do except what i wrote before, you are welcome.

I would like to dare and play like before hot, but due to new classes, thief simply can’t.

Well, feel free to check out the proof. Here’s a guy queueing games as Legendary X3 playing a thief.
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

It’s not ideal for tournaments, but the class works when you play it right. Hell, I made it to diamond as D/P thief with a pretty casual schedule and a whole lot less skill than this guy.

Boons are supposed to be strong effects that are only available in limited amounts.

Perma-prot, perma-swiftness, perma-vigor, perma-fury, etc. are the problem, and you can thank power-creep for that.

Having protection 40-60% of the time is balanced vs. having a lot of toughness, and opens the field for high skill gameplay in terms of timing for both offense and defense. As soon as you make it 80-100%, all that “balance” goes out the window.

But don’t worry, rather than just throttle those things back, we are going to start handing out boon-rips like candy and start of the arms-race that condis have been in vs. cleanse. That is how they want gw2 played: you just spam all your skills that all do a million things in a rotation, I’ll spam my stuff, and someone will die eventually depending on who has the stronger build/rotation/more CDs at the start of the fight.

Dahkeus.8243:

Shirlias.8104:

There’s no skill at all.
Before hot was about skill, now it’s a slaughtering.

If you think thief actually can trade and have something to do except what i wrote before, you are welcome.

I would like to dare and play like before hot, but due to new classes, thief simply can’t.

Well, feel free to check out the proof. Here’s a guy queueing games as Legendary X3 playing a thief.
http://www.twitch.tv/sindrenerr

It’s not ideal for tournaments, but the class works when you play it right. Hell, I made it to diamond as D/P thief with a pretty casual schedule and a whole lot less skill than this guy.

It’s not about hit legend or not.
You can play a class and do it right and the class be underpower.
Thief is out of meta and will probably be out of meta in s2. What’s the point in see that he’s underpower and some1 hit legend or play it better?

And i like to watch good thieves.

edit: just saw now the link. orange logo thief ( high skill and just assisting/pressuring, and no 1v1. what was i talking about? and the few times he die is not his fault, but game’s due to balance ).

and i like it very much ( just saying has nothing to do about what i was talking ).

I admit we could shave boon spam/duration a bit to open more windows of opportunity and counterplay, but that goes with shaving condi and aa spam on some classes.

Remember when boons were something of specialty of guards….yeah~

I don’t think thieves should be trying to do any direct trades with anyone, especially vs other power builds.

The issue is that GW2 was originally made with active defenses in mind. No dedicated healer meant you had to use your blocks, dodges, invulns, reflects, etc to survive. Protection, also, didn’t have such a disgusting uptime as it does now. If they increased the effectiveness of toughness, you WOULDVE had people just throw up all of the toughness gear and take 0 damage while some auxiliary form of attack that doesn’t rely too much on your damage stats does all of the work for you. It’d basically be another passive form of defense in a game that used to promote active defense.

lol ele with a protection nerf
absolutely hilarious

and the reason you got wrecked is thief is bad with toughness. For toughness to be good, you need health and/or sustain. Thief has neither.

BlackBeard.2873:

Boons are supposed to be strong effects that are only available in limited amounts.

Perma-prot, perma-swiftness, perma-vigor, perma-fury, etc. are the problem, and you can thank power-creep for that.

Having protection 40-60% of the time is balanced vs. having a lot of toughness, and opens the field for high skill gameplay in terms of timing for both offense and defense. As soon as you make it 80-100%, all that “balance” goes out the window.

But don’t worry, rather than just throttle those things back, we are going to start handing out boon-rips like candy and start of the arms-race that condis have been in vs. cleanse. That is how they want gw2 played: you just spam all your skills that all do a million things in a rotation, I’ll spam my stuff, and someone will die eventually depending on who has the stronger build/rotation/more CDs at the start of the fight.

Anet allmost allways choses the ‘easy way’ instead of the right one.
example: vigor nerf. engis + eles(in meta back that time) had enormous amount of vigor. u tossed a shoutbow in and no matter what everyone had permavigor in the party. instead of balancing the boon durations what does anet do? nerf the whole boon not considering it’s gonna hurt the squishy classes who cant spam boons 0-24 and rely on avoiding damage.

same is happening now with the controll of boon spamming. instead of balancing the durations and shares, they implement a horrible change that promotes skill spamming and does not solve the main problem.