Guild Wars 2

What title says.

Mesmer is quickly becoming a second elementalist (the king of useless elites). You, the ArenaNet balancing team, nerfed Moa… while the problem is not at all moa.

Let me give you the statistics:

• 1 sec cast time
• 180 sec cooldown
• previously 10 now 6 second duration
• can be interrupted, dodged or blocked
• changes opponent in moa: replaces weapon bar, heal-utilities-elite are inaccesible for the duration of the transform.
• It doesn’t stun, it doesn’t heal, it doesn’t even damage the enemy of it’s own accord.
• Transformed players can still attack, dodge, run away.

Similar skills, which are not a debuff transform on the enemy, but a buff transform on yourself are: rampage on warrior, plague form on necromancer, tornado on elementalist.

Rampage is probably the best-known of these and has the same 180 second cooldown but a duration of 15 seconds. Plague comes next with 180 second cooldown and 20 second duration.

TLDR: nerf continuum split, not moa

Agreed.

It still a 70s spam in 1v1

Teamfights will last longer.

Thanks Arenanet.

Directly nerfing elites rather than the Csplit + Elite interaction will also lead to problems with new Elite Specs.

At this point, I think it’s pretty clear that A.net doesn’t intend for Core classes to compete with Elite specs, but rather for different Elite specs (from new expansions) to compete against each other.

But if A.net starts nerfing all the mesmer elites based on Csplit — rather than making Csplitl not work with elites — then A.net is prematurely nerfing all of the future elite specs (who presumably won’t get Csplit but will instead have some other new mechanic).

Which means A.net will inevitably end up overcompensating some other way to make those new elite specs more one-dimensional.

By the time the next expansion comes I’m sure it’ll be normal to have to choose one elite spec and two core specs for every build.

At that point they may as well make the elite spec slot fixed/mandatory.

Unfortunately I can’t see this being undone from here.

A lot of people weren’t using Moa if I remember correctly before the expansion in spvp. Really Mesmers in general were kind of out of favor the last six months or so before the expansion. Chronomancer is what brought them back.

brannigan.9831:

A lot of people weren’t using Moa if I remember correctly before the expansion in spvp. Really Mesmers in general were kind of out of favor the last six months or so before the expansion. Chronomancer is what brought them back.

Moa’s use depended heavily on the meta. Moa is a skill optimally suited to countering a sustain-heavy meta because it’s able to shut down 90% of the target’s sustain. It’s less useful when you have a burst-heavy meta, where teams can instagib targets whether or not moa is used.

This also meant that moa was more useful vs coordinated teams (who could provide more sustain via synergy and teamwork) and less useful in soloqueues. I think the few mesmers who played in ESL pre-HOT ran moa, while most of the mesmers I saw in soloqueue ran mass invis for defense.

brannigan.9831:

A lot of people weren’t using Moa if I remember correctly before the expansion in spvp. Really Mesmers in general were kind of out of favor the last six months or so before the expansion. Chronomancer is what brought them back.

Absolutely not true, PU shatter and mantra shatter before that were super entrenched and tier 1 builds leading up to the xpac

why is it rip? most of the time like 80% the target is dead before even 5 seconds (that i have observed and seen on youtube pvp games)

brannigan.9831:

A lot of people weren’t using Moa if I remember correctly before the expansion in spvp. Really Mesmers in general were kind of out of favor the last six months or so before the expansion. Chronomancer is what brought them back.

Excuse me, what? Mesmers were stupidly strong after june patch lol. I still have flashbacks from stun/daze spam build.

Chaith.8256:

brannigan.9831:

A lot of people weren’t using Moa if I remember correctly before the expansion in spvp. Really Mesmers in general were kind of out of favor the last six months or so before the expansion. Chronomancer is what brought them back.

Absolutely not true, PU shatter and mantra shatter before that were super entrenched and tier 1 builds leading up to the xpac

tier 1? There was only one tier1 build before xpac that is cele ele.
Even a moa can’t kill cele ele with vampirism rune and godly ability to heal back to full health.

Yeah PU mesmer has crazy good sustain. But if I can win fight directly compared to hiding in stealth half of the time. I would pick the former easily.

Guys dont be dramatic. 10 seconds moa was evidently too much. With 6 second Moa you have a chance to get out of the moa with at least 10-15% hp if you are good dodging and moving while moaed.

The nerf was good and needed.

On the other hand, don’t expect ANET to kill the classes that you don’t play because you feel entitled to demand it.

Again, the nerf was fair and necessary. There was no need to destroy the mesmers completely just because some of you don’t know how to counter them. GET GUD.

6 seconds is more than enaught for a good spike/gank :\

I guess it was easier for both ANet and the baddies to turn down duration rather than adding a jump to the moa and have the moa player kite properly.

Oh well. That’s one of the reasons we are in the esports gutter

ResJudicator.7916:

Directly nerfing elites rather than the Csplit + Elite interaction will also lead to problems with new Elite Specs.

At this point, I think it’s pretty clear that A.net doesn’t intend for Core classes to compete with Elite specs, but rather for different Elite specs (from new expansions) to compete against each other.

But if A.net starts nerfing all the mesmer elites based on Csplit — rather than making Csplitl not work with elites — then A.net is prematurely nerfing all of the future elite specs (who presumably won’t get Csplit but will instead have some other new mechanic).

Which means A.net will inevitably end up overcompensating some other way to make those new elite specs more one-dimensional.

I also thought something along these lines. Also, the continuum split mechanic is so out of bounds that they will have a hard time finding anything remotely on the same level for the next elite spec.

What can compete with a full cooldown recharge? What new mechanic will they bring next time that can be as good (read: overpowered) as Continuum split?

Cyanon.1928:

Guys dont be dramatic. 10 seconds moa was evidently too much. With 6 second Moa you have a chance to get out of the moa with at least 10-15% hp if you are good dodging and moving while moaed.

Except it’s possible to come out of moa with nearly no health losses if you know how to use it. Two dodges, Flee and some kiting will go a long way.. also moa auto-attack can hit hard (I killed people with it).

The main problem is, if you don’t have CS, why use Moa at all? A 6 second duration transform on a 180 second cooldown, with no guaranteed kills? Some chainstuns have bigger effect than moa.

All those statistics are pretty meaningless.

Rampage and the other transformation skills have a drawback. You get powerful skills, increased effective health etc, but you lose access to your heal and utilities. Moa doesn’t.

Moa is far and away the single strongest disable in the game. Stuns, dazes, slows or straight up damage can be cleansed or healed. Moa can’t. If it hits you, you’re stuck with no block, no condi cleanse, absolutely no defenses or worthwhile damage for the entire duration, which means you’re either useless or dead meat. That you can move or run away is a non-issue, as you’re vulnerable to any kind of cc or lockdown.

I’d be ok with the old duration if the moa skills could actually provide some worthwhile defenses that people could play around other than less than a second of evade. But if those don’t get changed, decreasing the duration is the only other thing that gets even close to a “solution”. Hell, even after the nerf I’d say it’s still too effective.

Sirendor.1394:

What title says.

Mesmer is quickly becoming a second elementalist (the king of useless elites). You, the ArenaNet balancing team, nerfed Moa… while the problem is not at all moa.

Let me give you the statistics:

• 1 sec cast time
• 180 sec cooldown
• previously 10 now 6 second duration
• can be interrupted, dodged or blocked
• changes opponent in moa: replaces weapon bar, heal-utilities-elite are inaccesible for the duration of the transform.
• It doesn’t stun, it doesn’t heal, it doesn’t even damage the enemy of it’s own accord.
• Transformed players can still attack, dodge, run away.

Similar skills, which are not a debuff transform on the enemy, but a buff transform on yourself are: rampage on warrior, plague form on necromancer, tornado on elementalist.

Rampage is probably the best-known of these and has the same 180 second cooldown but a duration of 15 seconds. Plague comes next with 180 second cooldown and 20 second duration.

---

TLDR: nerf continuum split, not moa

“It doesn’t stun, it doesn’t heal, it doesn’t even damage the enemy of it’s own accord.”

So, what your saying is that it doesn’t really do anything?..if that is the case, what’s the harm in reducing its duration?

You have to remember skull crack stunned a target for 4 seconds." heal-utilities-elite are inaccesible for the duration" However can be broken by a stun break. This was enough to see skull crack slowed down and over animated.

You keep making cross comparison between skills, when historically anything that has disabled an opponent for more than 3 seconds has been nerfed in some form or another.

10s of moa, core or chronomancer, doesn’t matter. After the power creep it became the head-shot skill in GW2 when used with coordinated teams. It was too much and I’m glad to see it nerfed.

1. All core classes are weaker than the elites.

2. 6 seconds of Moa is plenty of time.

Sirendor.1394:

Similar skills, which are not a debuff transform on the enemy, but a buff transform on yourself are: rampage on warrior, plague form on necromancer, tornado on elementalist.

Rampage is probably the best-known of these and has the same 180 second cooldown but a duration of 15 seconds. Plague comes next with 180 second cooldown and 20 second duration.

Probably because Rampage, Lich, Plague and Tornado are skills that you use willingly and can leave on demand, while Moa is not because it does a completely different job. They aren’t similar at all. They are completely dissimilar.

And you can dodge, block, blind, and interrupt Rampage, Lich, Plague, and Tornado…oh wait.

I’d like a change to the mechanic. It should be similar to a polymorph from WoW. You don’t have control over your movements. Your toon kinda wanders about in a circle for a few seconds. Thank goodness for everyone’s sanity that it isn’t a 20 second duration like WoW was in vanilla.

blakkrskyrr.7413:

I’d like a change to the mechanic. It should be similar to a polymorph from WoW. You don’t have control over your movements. Your toon kinda wanders about in a circle for a few seconds. Thank goodness for everyone’s sanity that it isn’t a 20 second duration like WoW was in vanilla.

Effect breaks on hit? Brilliant.

Chaith.8256:

blakkrskyrr.7413:

I’d like a change to the mechanic. It should be similar to a polymorph from WoW. You don’t have control over your movements. Your toon kinda wanders about in a circle for a few seconds. Thank goodness for everyone’s sanity that it isn’t a 20 second duration like WoW was in vanilla.

Effect breaks on hit? Brilliant.

I don’t think GW2’s combat is capable of a condition like that haha. It’s hard enough to place your skills without them hitting multiple targets. Just by the natures of the combats in WoW and gw2, the one is more single targeted unless purposeful AoE and the other is mostly AoE through hit boxes.

I think having continum split not effect elites would have made a lot more sense or maybe a 1s daze added to moa when not split

Chase.2798:

I think having continum split not effect elites would have made a lot more sense or maybe a 1s daze added to moa when not split

Adding the ability to jump while in moa would’ve made at least the good players survive most of the moa due to obstructions and kiting. But that would involve more than 10 seconds of dev time.

Moa still ovewrite rampage. Adding jump would be really great and they also could add an icon on mesmer while he cast it.

A double jump would be awesome or a leaping skill that make the moa flap it’s little wings. :P

The problem with moa is that the duration really WAS too long. It was a must have, and as such a nerf was needed. Now you’ll of course disagree with that if you play mesmer, but you are far from the king of useless elites. Moa is still useful, just not an “I win button” in ranked, or atleast requires more coordination, wich is good.

10 seconds of being useless is a LONG time in any pvp scenario. Especially with some amount of coordination.

Also, while you are right that the cooldown on the skill is 180 seconds base, you are also wrong, since no one ever uses moa outside of continuum split unless they really, really, really have to. And even then still think twice about doing it. That sets the CD on a comfortable 90 seconds instead of the 180 listed.

Now lets talk about gravity well since you mentioned “king of useless elites” gravity well is still very viable, it has reasonable counterplay and good CC, just fades in comparison to a 10 second period of being cannon fodder. Maybe now it will see more play.

EDIT: Obviously not counting alacrity wich will lower that CD even further.
EDIT 2: Also, all the elites you mentioned can be broken by a timed moa. Lets not forget!

Mesmers are still OP in PvP.

A team with a teleport mesmer will always win against a team without a teleport mesmer with them. They just stay together and teleport to the point with less ppl of the other team and done.

Todd.6573:

The problem with moa is that the duration really WAS too long. It was a must have, and as such a nerf was needed. Now you’ll of course disagree with that if you play mesmer, but you are far from the king of useless elites. Moa is still useful, just not an “I win button” in ranked, or atleast requires more coordination, wich is good.

10 seconds of being useless is a LONG time in any pvp scenario. Especially with some amount of coordination.

Also, while you are right that the cooldown on the skill is 180 seconds base, you are also wrong, since no one ever uses moa outside of continuum split unless they really, really, really have to. And even then still think twice about doing it. That sets the CD on a comfortable 90 seconds instead of the 180 listed.

Now lets talk about gravity well since you mentioned “king of useless elites” gravity well is still very viable, it has reasonable counterplay and good CC, just fades in comparison to a 10 second period of being cannon fodder. Maybe now it will see more play.

EDIT: Obviously not counting alacrity wich will lower that CD even further.
EDIT 2: Also, all the elites you mentioned can be broken by a timed moa. Lets not forget!

There’s a reason I said “core mesmer” in title. I totally agree that on chronomancer using continuum split Moa is still very strong, and I wasn’t trying to defend 20 second moa on chronomancer. However there’s no reason at all to pick Moa on a core mesmer now. Mass Invisibility is the better pick because of it’s 80 second cooldown and 10 second stealth when traited. I am totally willing to see complete rework of Signet of Humility so it doesn’t involve Moa transform, since so many have a hate toward it… I have never experienced it as game-breaking when I play warrior, thief or guardian (warrior is my main), but maybe that’s just me.

Bottomline: seems like I have to accept that the way ArenaNet is going they are making all core specs unviable and elite specs mandatory, which leaves me with the choice to buy HoT so I can compete, or quit this game.

I switched between Moa and Well depending on what I wanted, Moa still works imo, you just have to time it better, and make sure your team is able to take advantage of it.

1 moa is enough to shut a bunker down enough to get downed imo, assuming you’re not just Moa’ing people willy nilly, and wondering why no one focused the Moa down.

on the other hand, I’ve been Moa’ed many times, and I’d kill the caster while in Moa form…. it’s not an end all uber elite. So why Moa is getting nerfed, I really don’t know.

instead nerfing the moa cd anet should buff the moa skills

make a skills which cleanse, make a skill mich does aoe dmg, and make the AA hit much more harder. than ppl will think twice if to use the moa or not.
it will give the moa person the chance to react and act accourdingly

I had always thought from the beginning that the duration of moa was too long. That was just my opinion.

I think a 6 second duration is far more reasonable.

That’s just my opinion. I mained a Mesmer when I started this game and took it farther than any of my other chars. But I never depend on moa skill in pvp. So, I understand for those that do depend on it, they can be pretty angry about it.

CS with moa takes skill. I rarely saw it in pvp. But, I’m not in the diamond or legendary league, so those players I’m sure can pull it off seamlessly. I’m still fumbling with CS and time warp mostly at boss events and whatnot. But that’s not to take away from the more skilled mesmers that can snap out CS moa or CS time warp fluidly every time.

You forgot to mention that it also cancels any other transformation target has like, shroud, tornado and rampage.

I think it still kills of necro minions too, not sure.

Hopefully when I return to the game no class will have any elite skills worth using, just like the elementalist.

Nejul.8415:

Why do engineer have a aoe moa attack and mesmer don’t?

Don’t you even start that band wagon.

Sirendor.1394:

Todd.6573:

The problem with moa is that the duration really WAS too long. It was a must have, and as such a nerf was needed. Now you’ll of course disagree with that if you play mesmer, but you are far from the king of useless elites. Moa is still useful, just not an “I win button” in ranked, or atleast requires more coordination, wich is good.

10 seconds of being useless is a LONG time in any pvp scenario. Especially with some amount of coordination.

Also, while you are right that the cooldown on the skill is 180 seconds base, you are also wrong, since no one ever uses moa outside of continuum split unless they really, really, really have to. And even then still think twice about doing it. That sets the CD on a comfortable 90 seconds instead of the 180 listed.

Now lets talk about gravity well since you mentioned “king of useless elites” gravity well is still very viable, it has reasonable counterplay and good CC, just fades in comparison to a 10 second period of being cannon fodder. Maybe now it will see more play.

EDIT: Obviously not counting alacrity wich will lower that CD even further.
EDIT 2: Also, all the elites you mentioned can be broken by a timed moa. Lets not forget!

There’s a reason I said “core mesmer” in title. I totally agree that on chronomancer using continuum split Moa is still very strong, and I wasn’t trying to defend 20 second moa on chronomancer. However there’s no reason at all to pick Moa on a core mesmer now. Mass Invisibility is the better pick because of it’s 80 second cooldown and 10 second stealth when traited. I am totally willing to see complete rework of Signet of Humility so it doesn’t involve Moa transform, since so many have a hate toward it… I have never experienced it as game-breaking when I play warrior, thief or guardian (warrior is my main), but maybe that’s just me.

---

Bottomline: seems like I have to accept that the way ArenaNet is going they are making all core specs unviable and elite specs mandatory, which leaves me with the choice to buy HoT so I can compete, or quit this game.

Im so sick of people wearing these nostalgia goggles.
There were meta builds, useless traitlines, kittenty utilities long before HoT.
Now that mesmers are more viable than ever, it makes no sense to balance it around the “core” game when the core game isnt the actual content being invested in…

Old school hard core pvper here…

Moa was and still is problematic. Take any hard cc skill and give it a 6 or 10 second timer that’s unbreakable and you have problems.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to use such a broken skill… Get opponent low in health, hit with Moa and win…

With all the visual combat chaos and attention needing to focus on many elements, more often than not players are getting hit with Moa.

Just like how stealth functions mid combat, it’s skills like these that are factored into the profession equation. Thieves almost universally need to have a crap ton of stealth to survive and find success in pvp modes, but once you take that away the profession falls apart. So much like stealth for thief and stealth and moa for Mesmer, each profession here has its gimmick that is needs to build around to have any chance to win. This in turn limits build diversity because it’s like pulling teeth to be successful outside of these limited builds…

Having said the above, the overarching main problems with GW2 has nothing to do with individual skills. It has to do with these…

1. The devs design(ed) and test(ed) everything profession and combat related for PVE first. I’m sure a couple of things had pvp in mind, but hardly anything meaningful.

2. The devs REFUSE, yes REFUSE to make any real efforts to make balance separations between pve and pvp because (paraphrased quote) “we discussed it, but it would add a lot of overhead to balance patches”… This is great that a company taking in millions per month won’t devote the proper time and resources to the pvp side of the game… Even Mike O’Brein recently asked for balance suggestions that implied separations wouldn’t be made…

3. 1 and 2 ARE fully developer issues, not profession or player issues.

The devs are fully aware at this point of problems with professions, combat, certain individual skills in pvp modes, lots of other stuff…, but until profession development becomes a priority we will always have issues.

I’m not advocating any other game, but the classes and combat in CU are being built with pvp in mind because it’s not a pve game… And even if there were plans for pve stuff, I guarantee strong efforts would be made to make balancing efforts between pvp and pve modes unlike here..

What we need to do is stop blaming players and individual skills, we need to budge the devs to start caring about the pvp side of the game.

We all know that the devs could make GW2 into one of the best fantasy combat mmo so if you really want change then you all should get out there and make your voices heard that the devs need to start balancing this game between modes. We have to show the devs it’s time to make pvp modes a priority. I’m not saying go and rant negatively, but get out there and make your constuctive videos, talk to popular gw2 streamers out there, start constuctive blogs… We can get the devs to act once we get these issue out from under the rug that arenanet has swept them under.

There are other game companies that come out and say “this is not good enough for our players” and proceed to blow up and rebuild core elements to their game. Arenanet needs to do the same here with professions and combat stuff… It’s time for professions 2.0 peeps…

Swagger.1459:

Old school hard core pvper here…

Moa was and still is problematic. Take any hard cc skill and give it a 6 or 10 second timer that’s unbreakable and you have problems.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to use such a broken skill… Get opponent low in health, hit with Moa and win…

With all the visual combat chaos and attention needing to focus on many elements, more often than not players are getting hit with Moa.

Just like how stealth functions mid combat, it’s skills like these that are factored into the profession equation. Thieves almost universally need to have a crap ton of stealth to survive and find success in pvp modes, but once you take that away the profession falls apart. So much like stealth for thief and stealth and moa for Mesmer, each profession here has its gimmick that is needs to build around to have any chance to win. This in turn limits build diversity because it’s like pulling teeth to be successful outside of these limited builds…

Having said the above, the overarching main problems with GW2 that has nothing to do with individual skills. It has to do with these…

1. The devs design(ed) and test(ed) everything profession and combat related for PVE first. I’m sure a couple of things had pvp in mind, but hardly anything meaningful.

2. The devs REFUSE, yes REFUSE to make any real efforts to make balance separations between pve and pvp because (paraphrased quote) “we discussed it, but it would add a lot of overhead to balance patches”… This is great that a company taking in millions per month won’t devote the proper time and resources to the pvp side of the game…

3. 1 and 2 ARE fully developer issues, not profession or player issues.

The devs are fully aware at this point the problems of professions, combat, certain individual skills in pvp modes, lots of other stuff…, but until profession development becomes a priority we will always have issues.

I’m not advocating any other game, but the classes and combat in CU are being built with pvp in mind because it’s not a pve game… And even if there were plans for pve stuff, I guarantee strong efforts would be made to make balancing efforts between pvp and pve modes unlike here..

What we need to do is stop blaming players and individual skills, we need to budge the devs to start caring about the pvp side of the game.

We all know that the devs could make GW2 into one of the best fantasy combat mmo so if you really want change then you all should get out there and make your voices heard that the devs need to start balancing this game between modes. We have to show the devs it’s time to make pvp modes a priority. I’m not saying go and rant negatively, but get out there and make your constuctive videos, talk to popular gw2 streamers out there, start constuctive blogs… We can get the devs to act once we get these issue out from under the rug that arenanet has swept them under.

Yeah sure we all know how meta it is for mesmers to use moa in pve lol…..I agree that Anet should split the balance for all three modes but look at the traits: you have got three traitlines for three major game modes..I don’t think it is a coincidence and I really don’t think they tested skills to be effective only in pve first. Look at core elite skills for mesmer: moa for pvp fights, mass invisibility for open world fights such as wvw and timewarp for pve stuff because in mian pve encounters mesmers buff the capacities of allies to make foes die quicker

flog.3485:

Swagger.1459:

Old school hard core pvper here…

Moa was and still is problematic. Take any hard cc skill and give it a 6 or 10 second timer that’s unbreakable and you have problems.

It doesn’t take a genius to figure out how to use such a broken skill… Get opponent low in health, hit with Moa and win…

With all the visual combat chaos and attention needing to focus on many elements, more often than not players are getting hit with Moa.

Just like how stealth functions mid combat, it’s skills like these that are factored into the profession equation. Thieves almost universally need to have a crap ton of stealth to survive and find success in pvp modes, but once you take that away the profession falls apart. So much like stealth for thief and stealth and moa for Mesmer, each profession here has its gimmick that is needs to build around to have any chance to win. This in turn limits build diversity because it’s like pulling teeth to be successful outside of these limited builds…

Having said the above, the overarching main problems with GW2 that has nothing to do with individual skills. It has to do with these…

1. The devs design(ed) and test(ed) everything profession and combat related for PVE first. I’m sure a couple of things had pvp in mind, but hardly anything meaningful.

2. The devs REFUSE, yes REFUSE to make any real efforts to make balance separations between pve and pvp because (paraphrased quote) “we discussed it, but it would add a lot of overhead to balance patches”… This is great that a company taking in millions per month won’t devote the proper time and resources to the pvp side of the game…

3. 1 and 2 ARE fully developer issues, not profession or player issues.

The devs are fully aware at this point the problems of professions, combat, certain individual skills in pvp modes, lots of other stuff…, but until profession development becomes a priority we will always have issues.

I’m not advocating any other game, but the classes and combat in CU are being built with pvp in mind because it’s not a pve game… And even if there were plans for pve stuff, I guarantee strong efforts would be made to make balancing efforts between pvp and pve modes unlike here..

What we need to do is stop blaming players and individual skills, we need to budge the devs to start caring about the pvp side of the game.

We all know that the devs could make GW2 into one of the best fantasy combat mmo so if you really want change then you all should get out there and make your voices heard that the devs need to start balancing this game between modes. We have to show the devs it’s time to make pvp modes a priority. I’m not saying go and rant negatively, but get out there and make your constuctive videos, talk to popular gw2 streamers out there, start constuctive blogs… We can get the devs to act once we get these issue out from under the rug that arenanet has swept them under.

Yeah sure we all know how meta it is for mesmers to use moa in pve lol…..I agree that Anet should split the balance for all three modes but look at the traits: you have got three traitlines for three major game modes..I don’t think it is a coincidence and I really don’t think they tested skills to be effective only in pve first. Look at core elite skills for mesmer: moa for pvp fights, mass invisibility for open world fights such as wvw and timewarp for pve stuff because in mian pve encounters mesmers buff the capacities of allies to make foes die quicker

Funny you mention PvE, I think I once moa’d the megadestroyer before stupid break bars….it wrecked everyone. Using moa on champs and even some elites was suicide sometimes, still funny =D

Yeah, moa is an all around junk skill really.

It honestly doesn’t have to be 3. Balancing for pve and pvp (spvp and wvw) is all that needs to be done.

Unfortunately, though, this is what’s happening…

MO quote…

“Karl is working specifically on WvW-focused skill balance. He’s looking for the wins for WvW that don’t screw the rest of the game.”

We will never have a good pvp experience as long as the above continues.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Chase.2798:

I think having continum split not effect elites would have made a lot more sense or maybe a 1s daze added to moa when not split

Adding the ability to jump while in moa would’ve made at least the good players survive most of the moa due to obstructions and kiting. But that would involve more than 10 seconds of dev time.

How is jumping going to solve anything?

As a long time mesmer main (since launch) and owner of 4 mesmers over 2 accounts, I have to say that no core mesmer gives a shoot about the Moa ‘Nerf’. Frankly all this attention on core mesmer comes over as insincere. Since the dawn of days mesmers have utilised either power shatter or pu in pvp, along with mass invis. Time warp nor Moa were viable options to take because of their cooldown. That has not changed with this ‘nerf’, and speaking from a pve or wvw, Moa is too insignificant to mean something in those game modes.

This nerf was for the preservation of the chronomancer and has not negatively affected core mesmer in any regards, because let’s face it, nobody uses Moa, outside of chronomancer.

Case closed.

Todd.6573:

Im so sick of people wearing these nostalgia goggles.
There were meta builds, useless traitlines, kittenty utilities long before HoT.
Now that mesmers are more viable than ever, it makes no sense to balance it around the “core” game when the core game isnt the actual content being invested in…

Or maybe people like you could agree that balance and build diversity post-HoT have decreased a lot when you compare it to pre-HoT? Call it nostalgia if you like, I call it matter of fact. Either way, I’m done with GW2 PvP. It’s not balanced now and it sure as hell wont be balanced later… there are F2P games with better balance and diversity.

FYI, this isn’t just about moa nerf, it’s about the progressive and continuous nerfing of core because elite specs are overpowered. As long as they do that instead of fixing the broken stuff, to hell with balance.

Entropy.6784:

This nerf was for the preservation of the chronomancer and has not negatively affected core mesmer in any regards, because let’s face it, nobody uses Moa, outside of chronomancer.

That is a two-cutting blade you hold there.. if nobody uses Moa, outside of the elite spec, maybe that is exactly because Moa wasn’t and isn’t overpowered on core mesmer because the huge cooldown offsets it’s strength. It makes even LESS sense to run moa now on core mesmer.

So why instead of nerfing Moa didn’t ArenaNet nerf chronomancer, which was the real reason Moa became “overpowered”?

Sirendor.1394:

Todd.6573:

Im so sick of people wearing these nostalgia goggles.
There were meta builds, useless traitlines, kittenty utilities long before HoT.
Now that mesmers are more viable than ever, it makes no sense to balance it around the “core” game when the core game isnt the actual content being invested in…

Or maybe people like you could agree that balance and build diversity post-HoT have decreased a lot when you compare it to pre-HoT? Call it nostalgia if you like, I call it matter of fact. Either way, I’m done with GW2 PvP. It’s not balanced now and it sure as hell wont be balanced later… there are F2P games with better balance and diversity.

FYI, this isn’t just about moa nerf, it’s about the progressive and continuous nerfing of core because elite specs are overpowered. As long as they do that instead of fixing the broken stuff, to hell with balance.

Entropy.6784:

This nerf was for the preservation of the chronomancer and has not negatively affected core mesmer in any regards, because let’s face it, nobody uses Moa, outside of chronomancer.

That is a two-cutting blade you hold there.. if nobody uses Moa, outside of the elite spec, maybe that is exactly because Moa wasn’t and isn’t overpowered on core mesmer because the huge cooldown offsets it’s strength. It makes even LESS sense to run moa now on core mesmer.

So why instead of nerfing Moa didn’t ArenaNet nerf chronomancer, which was the real reason Moa became “overpowered”?

Thanks for the laugh :P You mentioned a decrease in build diversity post-HoT, which honestly doesn’t make sense since HoT gave us a 6th trait line and new weps in combination with utilities. Build diversity was effeciently nerfed with the traitsytem rework pre-HoT so you might want to adress the dev’s on this one You can’t cry HoT killed diversity when it was the majority of the players who chose to abandon the core specs in favor of the elites, so they could follow the ‘meta’. Yes the elites outshine the core specs, I think everyone agrees on that. This is a matter that will be adressed in time.

Secondly, Moa wasn’t overpowered on core mesmer because it was useless outside of pvp where it was chosen seldom. All chrono did was shorten the cooldowns by a chunk, something which should have been done to mesmer elites and utilities a long time ago. Moa isn’t op, it’s a stupid skill but brilliant in its own rights, it can be blocked, interrupted, dodged and blinded. What more do you want?

Entropy.6784:

As a long time mesmer main (since launch) and owner of 4 mesmers over 2 accounts, I have to say that no core mesmer gives a shoot about the Moa ‘Nerf’. Frankly all this attention on core mesmer comes over as insincere. Since the dawn of days mesmers have utilised either power shatter or pu in pvp, along with mass invis. Time warp nor Moa were viable options to take because of their cooldown. That has not changed with this ‘nerf’, and speaking from a pve or wvw, Moa is too insignificant to mean something in those game modes.

This nerf was for the preservation of the chronomancer and has not negatively affected core mesmer in any regards, because let’s face it, nobody uses Moa, outside of chronomancer.

Case closed.

Case opened.
LOL hahahhha.
Case closed by me.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Chase.2798:

I think having continum split not effect elites would have made a lot more sense or maybe a 1s daze added to moa when not split

Adding the ability to jump while in moa would’ve made at least the good players survive most of the moa due to obstructions and kiting. But that would involve more than 10 seconds of dev time.

This is one of those things that’s absolutely infuriating. Why, in the current state of gaming, can you not jump when transformed into a moa?

Should be 40 sec cooldown imo.

Ravenmoon.5318:

I guess it was easier for both ANet and the baddies to turn down duration rather than adding a jump to the moa and have the moa player kite properly.

Oh well. That’s one of the reasons we are in the esports gutter

Yeah ok, or maybe you are the baddie, if you need a full 10s to burst a defenseless target.

6 seconds of locking a person completely out of their class is plenty.

dank.3680:

Ravenmoon.5318:

I guess it was easier for both ANet and the baddies to turn down duration rather than adding a jump to the moa and have the moa player kite properly.

Oh well. That’s one of the reasons we are in the esports gutter

Yeah ok, or maybe you are the baddie, if you need a full 10s to burst a defenseless target.

6 seconds of locking a person completely out of their class is plenty.

You had plenty of chances to dodge the moa before it ever hit you. You have plenty of chances to dodge and even attack while in moa.

But nah … let’s cry to ANet. Crying always solves it)

P.S: I don’t play mesmer so I wouldn’t need the full duration. As a thief/rev I instakill moa when I see it. Still, the nerf was stupid.