Raw DPS too high - June 23rd patch feedback

Raw DPS too high - June 23rd patch feedback

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

Forward note – I like everything that has been done in this patch aside from the raw DPS being too high. Even the specializations “which some people are claiming has killed game diversity” needed to happen. Most of the traits in the game were not used anyway so it was a good thing to narrow down meta selections and combine much less used traits with commonly used traits. Now we get to use them all and this is a fun thing indeed.

However! The raw DPS has been turned up so high that is breaking the game concerning conquest. Here is why:

  • There is absolutely no reason on any class to ever use anything outside of berserker.
  • Condis are now negligent. You don’t have time to stack condis when raw DPS burst builds kill you almost instantaneously.
  • Toughness, Vitality and any other statistical methods of defense, including anything anywhere relevant to a “bunker spec” is useless and no longer anywhere near the vicinity of viability. Even celestial is dead. Rabid is dead. Any amulet that has toughness is dead. Any amulet that doesn’t have power/prec/ferocity is dead. The DPS is so high that none of this matters.
  • The only viable methods of defense are now: dodging/evading/invulns. This goes hand in hand with why berserker is now the only viable amulet.

Guild Wars 2 conquest now has the feel of a first person shooter where head shot insta-killing is a reality and thus the meta has shifted from distinct MMORPG styled jobs such as: “primary engagers, point holder support, +1ing peelers” in to: Attack first with that headshot before they headshot you. This is no good! After playing all day yesterday, I began to notice that the dominate tactic in conquest is leaning towards berserker teams who zerg together from point to point and keep your team staggered as they hold some double and triple cap easily, through sheer combat prowess alone. Here is why this is bad for conquest:

  • Rotation strategies take the backseat, combat prowess alone declares the better team
  • Team composition takes the backseat as now everyone just wears berserker
  • Character spec takes the backseat as now all that is important lies within raw DPS
  • High DPS means frequent kills, which means just as much time in respawn as time spent on point getting to fight. It’s redundant and annoying after awhile.
  • 4 years in, we have all come to accept and enjoy conquest as: a match designed around balancing classes used, build archetypes used, jobs distributed & placed, fine positioning & rotations, communication factor and a certain level of charisma. But none of that matters in the face of a silent headshot meta.

It’s also important to note that just about everyone I know in-game was so excited for this patch that they planned on sitting down and playing all day upon the release. I anticipated a day of heavy guild activity while re-pioneering new spvp builds. Contrary to what I believed would happen, here was the common response that I received from about 50% of the players in my guild and contact list: “I’ve had enough of this, I’ll be back in HoT to see what’s going on. If it’s still bad I’m quitting”
As an enthusiast of Guild Wars 2, I don’t want to see this happen.

I think we all would embrace a slight DPS creep but what is going on right now is way way too much. One thing is certain: The raw DPS needs to be turned down.

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

You figured all this out in 18 hours, did you?

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

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Posted by: Mia Crazymike.1780

Mia Crazymike.1780

Condition builds in sPvp is currently bad?

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Posted by: Badcat.7320

Badcat.7320

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.

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Posted by: TheFamster.7806

TheFamster.7806

I thought people liked having zerker meta in conquest match. Let’s just wait and see how things will turn up. When there’s a lot of zerkers in pvp match, people will eventually find ways to counter them

Tour

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Posted by: Night.2759

Night.2759

I would have to agree with Evil at this point as well – it’s too early to tell. I tried playing a power necro last night and used a Knight’s amulet, I could feel my DPS doing well and the toughness from the Knight’s amulet gave me a needed boost in survivability so I wouldn’t rule out toughness just yet. After that I tried playing a condi thief build, again it went well but I do acknowledge the “ramp up” part of the conditions but that was the case pre-patch as well. Next on my ranger I tried a power build with a Marauder’s amulet, other team was condi heavy – I definitely felt the condi pressure and it made surviving hard if at all.

TL;DR – Let’s give people some time to adjust builds and figure out the new skill sets.

Nightanvil – Guardian / Nightrend Shademist – Thief
Nightspecter – Necromancer / Night**** all others

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Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.

Sigh.

What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?

It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.

Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.

Sigh.

What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?

It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.

Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.

Thats your opinion, nothing more.

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Posted by: Mightybird.6034

Mightybird.6034

Did you ever think DPS might be too high because everyone is trying out the new marauder and zerker amulet?

Almost everyone is glass builds….

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Posted by: Night.2759

Night.2759

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.

Sigh.

What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?

It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.

Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.

Thats your opinion, nothing more.

and that’s your opinion on his opinion (sorry couldn’t help myself lol)

Nightanvil – Guardian / Nightrend Shademist – Thief
Nightspecter – Necromancer / Night**** all others

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Posted by: evilapprentice.6379

evilapprentice.6379

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.

Sigh.

What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?

It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.

Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.

Thats your opinion, nothing more.

“The meta needs time to settle” is not an opinion, it’s been true of every patch thus far.

It’s statistically impossible for every potentially viable build to have been tested against every other potentially viable build by players all across the range of skill levels in a mere 18 hours. That is a fact, not an opinion.

If you’re a thief and haven’t
pre-ordered HOT at this point,
save yourself the money and don’t bother.

(edited by evilapprentice.6379)

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Posted by: dylanirwin.6249

dylanirwin.6249

I do have to admit the dps is way too high now and its to the point where 1 shotting people is possible in pvp and that really shouldn’t be possible, the meta went from being good with sustain and wise dodging. Now its whoever can burst down the other team fast not caring about dodging because the only thing that would keep you alive is invulns. And Condis their damage is so low its like Anet is promoting everyone to run Berzerkers.

Don’t be a hater

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.

Sigh.

What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?

It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.

Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.

Thats your opinion, nothing more.

“The meta needs time to settle” is not an opinion, it’s been true of every patch thus far.

It’s an opinion.
Since you can’t prove (only time could) its not already more or less settled due to imbalance (too high ‘power’ based damage).

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Posted by: Login.5102

Login.5102

Im destroying many zerk comps with Sentinel and Soldiers amulet.

Let the meta settle. There are some VERY tanking and efficient builds post patch.

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Posted by: Leodon.1564

Leodon.1564

I agree that its too early to tell if DPS is too high. People are used to running glass builds and will either need to adapt to stay glassy or will need to sacrifice some of their glassiness for more sustain. As the meta shifts, you’ll be able to gauge better if its going in the right direction or the wrong direction.

You need time to figure out not just your own builds but the builds that other classes are using. Once you gain more experience figuring out what you need to watch out for from other classes, incoming DPS will naturally decrease from what you’re experiencing now.

I used to run a berserker glass build pre-patch and noticed that I was having trouble staying alive after the patch with DPS so high. This is not necessarily a bad thing as I’m trying out different builds now that I would not have considered in the past (e.g., more defensive amulets and traits). Also, I’m enjoying the playstyle for what it is as its a change of pace from the past and we may not see it again once balancing occurs.

If you set the bar high, then there’s that much more you can strive for and part of the fun of playing is seeing how far you can push yourself.

Faye Oren – Mesmer
Lee Oren – Ranger
Eve Oren – Revenant

(edited by Leodon.1564)

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Posted by: ades.1386

ades.1386

I agree that its too early to tell if DPS is too high. People are used to running glass builds and will either need to adapt to stay glassy or will need to sacrifice some of their glassiness for more sustain. As the meta shifts, you’ll be able to gauge better if its going in the right direction or the wrong direction.

You need time to figure out not just your own builds but the builds that other classes are using. Once you gain more experience figuring out what you need to watch out for from other classes, incoming DPS will naturally decrease from what you’re experiencing now.

I used to run a berserker glass build pre-patch and noticed that I was having trouble staying alive after the patch with DPS so high. This is not necessarily a bad thing as I’m trying out different builds now that I would not have considered in the past (e.g., more defensive amulets and traits). Also, I’m enjoying the playstyle for what it is as its a change of pace from the past and we may not see it again once balancing occurs.

If you set the bar high, then there’s that much more you can strive for and part of the fun of playing is seeing how far you can push yourself.

Totally agree ive been running around mixing/matching builds..

1. I can run full glass and be an OP broken powerhouse of death / but die extremely quickly with no condi clears

2. I can be a condi spammer venoms/boon stripping buffing (boring for me I actually like to melee my targets)

3. I can find a mix and live with it like we do every single patch

everyone got buffed in some way shape or form figure out what works for your playstyle!

Crystal Desert

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Almost everyone is running glass builds.
I’m not.
I’m winning all my matches.

The only reason why you are killing people with zerker, is because they are running zerker as well. XD

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Posted by: Chaos Archangel.5071

Chaos Archangel.5071

You didn’t?
Apparently everyone else on the forum did
You should start paying attention my friend
Perhaps try playing a conquest match or two

The forums are in the exact same state they are after every patch (only a little more widespread because everyone is kittening about everyone else) – if that’s your metric then every single patch has been a massive failure.

If you think you’ve got the changes perfectly pegged after 18 hours, you’re being silly.

Just to note, that’s not to say you aren’t potentially correct, but you’re already 100% convinced that you’re correct, and that’s just not possible.

Boyer seems to be right you know. People in mists saying same stuff.

Sigh.

What bearing do a bunch of opinions with the same amount of experience (roughly 18 hours) have on my argument that people don’t have enough experience yet to properly judge the new content?

It doesn’t matter HOW many people believe in creationist theory, they’re wrong when they say the earth is 5000 years old. The number of people parroting that opinion doesn’t help “prove it”.

Again, I’d like to clarify I’m not saying he’s definitely wrong. I’m not saying that Raw DPS is in a good place right now – How could I? I don’t have any more experience than anyone else with the patch. All I’m saying is let’s keep the definitive statements of whats wrong and what needs to be fixed off the boards for at least a few days until a meta starts to develop.

+1 Hit the nail on the head.

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Posted by: Toxsa.2701

Toxsa.2701

I agree that its too early to tell if DPS is too high. People are used to running glass builds and will either need to adapt to stay glassy or will need to sacrifice some of their glassiness for more sustain. As the meta shifts, you’ll be able to gauge better if its going in the right direction or the wrong direction.

You need time to figure out not just your own builds but the builds that other classes are using. Once you gain more experience figuring out what you need to watch out for from other classes, incoming DPS will naturally decrease from what you’re experiencing now.

I used to run a berserker glass build pre-patch and noticed that I was having trouble staying alive after the patch with DPS so high. This is not necessarily a bad thing as I’m trying out different builds now that I would not have considered in the past (e.g., more defensive amulets and traits). Also, I’m enjoying the playstyle for what it is as its a change of pace from the past and we may not see it again once balancing occurs.

If you set the bar high, then there’s that much more you can strive for and part of the fun of playing is seeing how far you can push yourself.

Must be fun that when capping a node, a perma invisible mesmer come out of stealth right beside you and burst you down with shatter f1 f2 f3 f4 spam directly from 17k hp → down. Watch for what? Can I see invisible things?

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

Almost everyone is running glass builds.
I’m not.
I’m winning all my matches.

The only reason why you are killing people with zerker, is because they are running zerker as well. XD

I’ve played non-zerker, non-marauder builds and I’ve lost all (!) my matches today since I was no threat to anyone, while everyone was threat for me and I still had feeling being made of paper while focused by more than one zerker.

Another thing, launching Transfusion for ~6,5k (healing, not damage) and such silly things wasn’t any help for my team mates, since they were bursted like 100% → 0%. We could notice that supporting ~zerkers is pointless, they don’t live long enough.

While my feelings were completly different yday when I was playing DPS oriented builds…

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Posted by: Benjamin.8237

Benjamin.8237

Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.

P R I N C E | Best Renger EU
You can find me in PvP | I normally answer PMs

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.

This and it’s clear there are A LOT of bad players.

Last meta, an engineer could ride his Gear Shield on recharge, even if he wasn’t in any danger.
Now, you get punished for stupid stunts like that.

Yet, you STILL have engineers trying to ride Gear Shield on recharge. People are just so conditioned to make mistakes in the last meta, now the good players can now GREATLY punish those bad mistakes.

I see a lot of QQ about balance, then again, I see a Guardian run into a mid point and tried to 1v3. He died instantly, didn’t get the chance to run. Before you could do something stupid like that and get away. Now, you die for dumb mistakes.

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.

This and it’s clear there are A LOT of bad players.

Last meta, an engineer could ride his Gear Shield on recharge, even if he wasn’t in any danger.
Now, you get punished for stupid stunts like that.

Yet, you STILL have engineers trying to ride Gear Shield on recharge. People are just so conditioned to make mistakes in the last meta, now the good players can now GREATLY punish those bad mistakes.

I see a lot of QQ about balance, then again, I see a Guardian run into a mid point and tried to 1v3. He died instantly, didn’t get the chance to run. Before you could do something stupid like that and get away. Now, you die for dumb mistakes.

You call it stupid, but I guess you haven’t played much before with Bunker Guard. In previous meta you could just run into 3 average people and keep them engaged for period of time long enough so your team could cap rest of the map easily then disengage or get rainforced… not really stupid.

But yeah… now it’s a bit stupid when everyone deals so much damage…

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Posted by: Rabidd.9458

Rabidd.9458

Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.

This and it’s clear there are A LOT of bad players.

Last meta, an engineer could ride his Gear Shield on recharge, even if he wasn’t in any danger.
Now, you get punished for stupid stunts like that.

Yet, you STILL have engineers trying to ride Gear Shield on recharge. People are just so conditioned to make mistakes in the last meta, now the good players can now GREATLY punish those bad mistakes.

I see a lot of QQ about balance, then again, I see a Guardian run into a mid point and tried to 1v3. He died instantly, didn’t get the chance to run. Before you could do something stupid like that and get away. Now, you die for dumb mistakes.

You call it stupid, but I guess you haven’t played much before with Bunker Guard. In previous meta you could just run into 3 average people and keep them engaged for period of time long enough so your team could cap rest of the map easily then disengage or get rainforced… not really stupid.

But yeah… now it’s a bit stupid when everyone deals so much damage…

I thought bunker guard wasn’t even used much in the previous meta?

I love the new changes so far, very refreshing.

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Posted by: Nova Stiker.8396

Nova Stiker.8396

Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.

This and it’s clear there are A LOT of bad players.

Last meta, an engineer could ride his Gear Shield on recharge, even if he wasn’t in any danger.
Now, you get punished for stupid stunts like that.

Yet, you STILL have engineers trying to ride Gear Shield on recharge. People are just so conditioned to make mistakes in the last meta, now the good players can now GREATLY punish those bad mistakes.

I see a lot of QQ about balance, then again, I see a Guardian run into a mid point and tried to 1v3. He died instantly, didn’t get the chance to run. Before you could do something stupid like that and get away. Now, you die for dumb mistakes.

You call it stupid, but I guess you haven’t played much before with Bunker Guard. In previous meta you could just run into 3 average people and keep them engaged for period of time long enough so your team could cap rest of the map easily then disengage or get rainforced… not really stupid.

It was really stupid. As of right now I’ve need bunker guards handle a 2v1, but blow up once a third player arrives. Plus a thief can focus down a bunker guardian, although it’ll take a while. There is absolutely no reason to allow a single guardian hold down 3 people.

Not to mention shoutbow alone killed so many possible condition builds and could kill players 1v1 without taking a dink in their health.

_

That being said, bunker guardian is legit now. However, bunker guards need to learn ditch point once they get outnumbered. There is no shame in leaving a point and regrouping with your team as it’s no longer ideal trying to defend a point with 3+ players smashing your face in.

As I said, last meta players were conditioned to not be punished for making mistakes. Trying to 1v3 is always (and should be) a big mistake.

(edited by Nova Stiker.8396)

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Posted by: Morwath.9817

Morwath.9817

Can I disagree? Elixir Cele Engineer won’t die 1v1 to any class with it’s healing, and it maintains the same strong damage. I don’t think zerker is the only option, just not all the builds have been explored yet.

This and it’s clear there are A LOT of bad players.

Last meta, an engineer could ride his Gear Shield on recharge, even if he wasn’t in any danger.
Now, you get punished for stupid stunts like that.

Yet, you STILL have engineers trying to ride Gear Shield on recharge. People are just so conditioned to make mistakes in the last meta, now the good players can now GREATLY punish those bad mistakes.

I see a lot of QQ about balance, then again, I see a Guardian run into a mid point and tried to 1v3. He died instantly, didn’t get the chance to run. Before you could do something stupid like that and get away. Now, you die for dumb mistakes.

You call it stupid, but I guess you haven’t played much before with Bunker Guard. In previous meta you could just run into 3 average people and keep them engaged for period of time long enough so your team could cap rest of the map easily then disengage or get rainforced… not really stupid.

But yeah… now it’s a bit stupid when everyone deals so much damage…

I thought bunker guard wasn’t even used much in the previous meta?

I love the new changes so far, very refreshing.

Bunker Guard wasn’t used in tournaments much, thats true.
However some people still played it in Rankeds, e.g. I had win ratio with mine ~60%.

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Posted by: Scambug.3502

Scambug.3502

Burst DPS was already too high before the patch. Now it’s just stupid.
No way to counter it besides dodging, toughness builds suck, healing builds suck…everyone’s running around spamming their one AOE instakill skill. It’s a joke.

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Posted by: Necrotize.2974

Necrotize.2974

Few people have solidified builds yet. Pure glass berserker builds however, are fairly straight-forward and easy to build without changing much post-patch. Because of this, a huge majority of the people I run across are full glass dps builds that are still unfamiliar with the changes of most other classes, making them easy prey to fast opening burst.

Tanky builds are possible though. Made a quad kit engi designed around might stacking and point holding with Cele amulet and bomb traits. Not only could I easily hold out against 1 person, but I was able to hold the point in a 1v2 and 2v3 situation fairly easily while providing 25 stacks of might by myself. Damage was still kinda meh without IP, but it just shows that tanky builds are possible, just no one is running them yet.

When everyone is experimenting with builds, its far easier to burst them down as fast as possible rather than build more complex, survivable builds. People deal more damage now, but people also seem to build for a lot less defense now. I’m maining mesmer, and I can’t tell you how many people I see running 1 or even 0 defensive traits.

TLDR: Give it time. Patch has been live for a day, Anet can’t exactly rebalance every classes’ damage and defense after a single day of play.

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Posted by: Balsa.3951

Balsa.3951

played as necro i rarly even can cast my heal skill before im dead and im not berserker.

fun is gone

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Posted by: dominik.9721

dominik.9721

don’t know why people complain about raw dmg.
atm everyone throws massive condis randomly ,even on power builds.

so fun this patch

Grimkram [sS]

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

It was really stupid. As of right now I’ve need bunker guards handle a 2v1, but blow up once a third player arrives. Plus a thief can focus down a bunker guardian, although it’ll take a while. There is absolutely no reason to allow a single guardian hold down 3 people.

Not to mention shoutbow alone killed so many possible condition builds and could kill players 1v1 without taking a dink in their health.

_

That being said, bunker guardian is legit now. However, bunker guards need to learn ditch point once they get outnumbered. There is no shame in leaving a point and regrouping with your team as it’s no longer ideal trying to defend a point with 3+ players smashing your face in.

As I said, last meta players were conditioned to not be punished for making mistakes. Trying to 1v3 is always (and should be) a big mistake.

I agree. Why do you think it’s a bad thing if a bunker can only keep 2 people busy? It’s still one guy less for your teammates.
And if they need 3 guys to take you down…it’s 2vs4 for the rest of your team.
I don’t see a problem here. (And maybe there can even be a teammate helping you…just saying)

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

There is a big difference in play dynamic between: Casual MMRs, Intermediate MMRs, High MMRs and Competitive Team MMRs. This is the main reason why players disagree on their points of view of “if something is imbalanced or not”. Certain things work great in low MMRs but don’t work amongst more skilled high MMRs. Turret Engineers before the nerf are a great example. Casual & Intermediate level MMRs believed turrets to be insurmountable OP madness. In fact, we never heard the end of it in the forums. The truth amongst High MMRs and Competitive MMRs is that turrets were never viable to begin with and that’s why no team ever won a money tournament, that ran Turret Engineers.

~ Just saying, consider the above

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: Warlord of Chaos.7845

Warlord of Chaos.7845

When my Mesmer can burst a guardian with 3.6k armor and 18k from 100-0 in one second, you know there is someone wrong with damage lol. If my Mesmer can burst that down, good luck with anything squishier.

-Rylock [vE]
Retired.

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Posted by: Warlord.9074

Warlord.9074

Some things could be toned down some. I don’t like the idea of bunkers and I don’t like the low risk high reward game play at all. Its great for new players of low skilled individuals though.

ANET made a mistake of buffing classes that didn’t need buffed. That were not in a terrible state of the game to begin with.

“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

The most confusing part about all of this is that I’m actually…. enjoying the DPS increase. Yet the better gamer side of me that sees balance or imbalance cries to out to report how wrong all of this is.

As of last night, we have thoroughly tested through most of the classes in actual matches as well as 1v1 moch situational practices in custom arenas. Here is what seems to hold true at this point:

  • Warrior – GS peeling builds seem to more prevalent than anything else, now that Hammer is dead. It’s arguable whether to go DPS or Durable for this job. Other specs I’ve seen players test just aren’t keeping up at this point. The GS is important now for speed in mobility to even be able to catch anyone after these updates.
  • Guardian – Go Serk Medi/Burst or go home. High DPS boon removing Shatter Mesmers, Thief Mugs and Power Well Necromancers that strip boons completely push Guardian Bunkers out of viable meta.
  • Ranger – Go Serk LB/GS or go home. Condi Survival/Trap Variants are no longer viable because you do not have time to stack conditions vs. raw physical DPS serkers in this current meta. You now need the range on that LB to outrange things like Mug, Judges Intervention, ect.. ect.. The Quick Draw trait in conjunction with GS #4 block and double invulns on utilities is now far more defensive than toughness will ever be on a condi survival build due to this DPS. As I said in an earlier post “dodges/evades/blocks/invulns are your only real defense now”.
  • Engineer – Two viable specs exist: Serk/Rifle running the old Cele/Rifle utilities, with Marks/Firearms/Tools. Then I’ve seen “but not personally played” some very viable spec with these new traits that can actually bunker/decap a point for a reasonable amount of time, with decent sustain but it has terrible damage. So far that bunker spec is the only effective bunker spec that is currently being ran and it is only working because of all these new defensive traits on Engi that are dropping heal packs left & right.
  • Thief – Go Serk D/P or go home. It’s been like this on Thief for a long time anyway.
  • Elementalist – I’m not really seeing much viability at all in the department of Eles at this point. If anything, S/F Serk seems to be the most viable. Running anything else is just not getting the job done. Even Celestial specs no longer have enough sustain and do not have the DPS required to bully on point.
  • Mesmer – Go Serk Shatter or go home. You may be squishy.. but you kitten well have the right to kill every spec in the game with 1 well timed burst now.
  • Necromancer – Aaaaah, the new MvP. Again, go serk or go home. Power/Wells are now the new OP archetype that everyone is going to be complaining about by the end of the week, mark my words.

I’ve been enjoying this high speed fast paced combat but I sort of miss reasons to use amulets other than Berserker.

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: Novuake.2691

Novuake.2691

The biggest issues I have with the current state of PvP :

1. Protection is A MUST, but is completely negated by the rampant condis around.

2. Even going sentinels and as much active defense as you can barely helps you to tank anything unless you are a bunker guard or similar.

3. Invulns are just rediculously strong and the classes without them suffer.

4. Dodging means nothing due to the rampant condis as well as insane AOE dmg being constantly pulsed with no targeting, AKA skilled play required.

5. Passive damage is just worse now, fire/air is just doing too much, this is not that prevalent in teamfights as you die more from other things, but in 1v1 the dmg is very high compared to how much defense you can have.

I am sure that these changes will actually be alleviated in something OTHER THAN CONQUEST and a lot by simply toning down condi, but we only have conquest.

Its all come down to kill or be killed. Whomever kills faster almost instantly win the match, rotations have no effect, strategic play means nothing.

Retriever Iiat – Asura Engineer
Private retriever of runaway NPCs
Mistband[MIST] – PVP Training guild EU

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

People are running zerk because this patch has made them more fun to play. I’ ve already prepared extremely viable celestial builds (on several classes), not to mention clerics guard is still reletively unexplored in this meta.

Also ‘git gud’

Thanks for your time.


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

It’s all fine adapt.

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread

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Posted by: Novuake.2691

Novuake.2691

The naysayers didn’t bother reading any of the reasoning as per usual, but ok.

EDIT : for clarity, I meant the 2 above me.

Retriever Iiat – Asura Engineer
Private retriever of runaway NPCs
Mistband[MIST] – PVP Training guild EU

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Posted by: creepmatic.9435

creepmatic.9435

I guess it’s a shock to most people that they lost the free stats from the trait’s. Damage might be high but no one is forcing you to go glass, build more defensively, change amulet, play with builds. People will stop going all glass when a new build will get discovered that counters certain speccs.

Let it rest for a bit. And as for Anet, wee NEED more frequent updates like this. I know it’s important to take it easy and change a few things at a time, but you guys took too freaking long. See how many people are happy that they have new stuff to play around. It should be standard as classes to receive fixes and or interesting changes more frequently.

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

Bunker is fun.
They try to burst you twice and then they go away while you are laughing at them.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: Phaeton.9582

Phaeton.9582

I guess it’s a shock to most people that they lost the free stats from the trait’s. Damage might be high but no one is forcing you to go glass, build more defensively, change amulet, play with builds. People will stop going all glass when a new build will get discovered that counters certain speccs.

Let it rest for a bit. And as for Anet, wee NEED more frequent updates like this. I know it’s important to take it easy and change a few things at a time, but you guys took too freaking long. See how many people are happy that they have new stuff to play around. It should be standard as classes to receive fixes and or interesting changes more frequently.

This guy gets it – congrats!


Phaatonn, London UK

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Posted by: Entenkommando.5208

Entenkommando.5208

Yeah that’s the best thing to do.
As soon as all you see is non varied meta…nerf the meta.
That keeps up the fun.

R.I.P Kodasch Allianz [KoA]

All we wanted was a GvG.

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Posted by: Trevor Boyer.6524

Trevor Boyer.6524

After much 1v1 practice, here is what we are finding:

  • Warrior is kitten now, no really… it no longer has any strong points
  • Guardian has great burst but no aptitude for defending, even on bunker specs
  • Ranger is surprisingly one of the bunkiest and most self sustaining builds while running Beast/Nature/Wild and using Settler’s Amulet. It is able to abuse shout regen in ways that are only matched in sustain by a D/D Cele in 1v1.
  • Engineer is middle ground at this point. Cele works still in 1v1 engagement but it is by no means anywhere near as durable as the above Ranger build or D/D Cele Ele. if you want to sustain as an Engi now, you run bunk. If you want DPS it’s gotta so serk. There isn’t a sweet spot in between anymore..
  • Thief is the same old kitten as always. Deals a lot of DPS but dies quick when bursted.
  • Mesmer….. can shut down anything in a 1v1 now with a certain build that I won’t spread the disease of by explaining that build. For you Mesmers out there, I’m sure you already know what I’m talking about.
  • Elementalist is on par with that Ranger Settler/Beast build but they cannot kill each other in a 1v1 against each other. They just bunk forever.
  • Necromancer has developed 1v1 capability now but it’s still too susceptible to CC spikes and dies quite easily to things like Engi/Rifle or that special Mesmer build that I won’t mention.

But even with the above sustain builds mentioned, they still don’t matter when targeted by two or more berserker specs. The DPS still drops them almost immediately. Even after discovered reasonable sustain builds in this meta, they still don’t get the job done in team fights. They are amazing in 1v1! but they do nothing for you when +1ing is an issue, needing to stay on points is an issue and just plain team chemistry concerning combo field play and timed CCs.

The team fights are unreasonably Berserker heavy. Anyone who is not seeing this must be playing in low MMR brackets! Where you can still pull off bunking/sustaining vs. opponents who can’t land bursts correctly!

I use the name Barbie on all of my characters.

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Posted by: Solori.6025

Solori.6025

I think it’s the stats.
I think they over compensated on a few amulets.

Everyone has a zerk spec that does something nasty, and the traits are not helping.

I think at this point the best thing to do would be to shave some stat points and do some minor tweaking to everyones traits.


The world needs more KUNG FURY!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bS5P_LAqiVg

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Posted by: Daishi.6027

Daishi.6027

Condi and bunkers are not dead. People just don’t get carried by their passive defenses and endless healing anymore. Baiting, doges, and anticipation is A LOT more prevalent regardless of spec in this build and I don’t think that is a bad thing.

I think the balance going to shooter/brawler/endgamemoba-ish for everyone at least puts people on a relatively even playing field.

Yes the dynamic of our main game type will change. But if people are going to complain about the NPCs in stronghold, I don’t see why we thought the idea of constant stalling and rotating around fights is what we wanted for PvP…

Ultimately I see very little problem with the fact that in almost all scenarios there is more than enough room to outplay most opponents, while keeping 5v5 still balanced.

I don’t think “Combat prowess” is a bad thing for being key in PvP.

“I control time and space; you can’t break free.~”
“Maybe I was the illusion all along!”

(edited by Daishi.6027)

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Posted by: Novuake.2691

Novuake.2691

I think it’s the stats.
I think they over compensated on a few amulets.

Everyone has a zerk spec that does something nasty, and the traits are not helping.

I think at this point the best thing to do would be to shave some stat points and do some minor tweaking to everyones traits.

This sounds about right, buff the defensive traits a little and tone down condis.

Retriever Iiat – Asura Engineer
Private retriever of runaway NPCs
Mistband[MIST] – PVP Training guild EU

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Posted by: Kovacs.2518

Kovacs.2518

I do have to agree with the OP. I have given it some serious thought and have come to the conclusion that pvp is just even more about who can get their burst rotation in first. I am not complaining – if this is the way they want sPvP to be then I can adapt. Ont eh whole I like what they have done ankitten ot making any judgements until I have seen the Elite specializations in action.