Guild Wars 2

Sauce (Check the comments)

This seemed to be a fairly hotbed topic last week, but PC Gamer just confirmed that the queue for it or the automated way to play it would be 5v5, with room to expand or contract the size in CAs. I think this could be fairly interesting for the competitive scene, but what do you all think?

It’s just another sPvP map

Epic fail of resources

Nice, More than 5v5+NPC would be totally unspectable.

Interesting article btw

Since the last official info we got was, that they are testing currently everything between 5vs5 to 10vs10 I really doubt that this information is accurate. Probably up for discussion till the stronghold-scene takes off with the first successful tournaments.

(But I still hope it will be 5vs5).

Seriously doubt it will be competitive! The article stated that this mode was designed for people who aren’t good at the game lol! That is the opposite of competitive!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ellesee.8297:

Seriously doubt it will be competitive! The article stated that this mode was designed for people who aren’t good at the game lol! That is the opposite of competitive!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

Actually for a game to be competitive you need a bunch of really bad players that play it & watch tournaments

They actually stated in the beginning they were only testing 5v5. Not 5v5 to 10v10….. Not sure where the article is but that is what they said. They said there is a possibility to up it to 5+v5+ if the community during the beta has a strong request that it be more than 5v5. Basically if all the beta testers say 5v5 is too small it should be 7v7, then they will look into possible changing it to 7v7.

Good article though, TY Blu

Here’s what I gather so far:

-5v5
-kill lord 2 win
-2 lanes
-push one lane, defend the other
?? = earn supply
-buy NPCs with supply
-hire skritt bombers to kill gates, doesn’t harm players, skritt die in 1 hit and gate has guards so must escort but also can hire archers to kill guards and a little bit the gate
-regular old treb on each side that can be insta-repaired with supply – this is how your bad PvE friends can still contribute to matches
-“hero” spawns at some point and it’s a 10 sec channel so basically will have a tranquility-esque battle for it. commune hero he does much dmg to push lane and if he gets in enemy base can use big ol’ AoE attack.

Guys, game is balanced around 5v5 anyway.

Look skills: Max targets 5

Thanks for your time but I already kinda knew it was going to be this small..

I prayed for the real annihilation GvG like other games ;<

It is already impossible to watch 5v5 teamfights, even more plus the NPCs would be entirely unwatchable.

As long as we can have our own custom arenas for this (and can ramp it up to 10 if we want) then I am fine with this decision.

Any mode larger than 5v5 would drive away PvP players from playing it I’d say. 5v5 is a good call (for multiple reasons) and it shouldn’t be debated. The only people who want a cap increase are WvW players, but I think it’s pretty obvious that PvP patches should target the PvP audience. They get a new borderland, we get a new map/gamemode, mind your own business guys.

Sounds like fun on paper.

Totally not GvG or a suitable replacement for those hoping for, or wanting a Suspenseful and tension filled Death match of Push and Pull with Multiple “Win” Conditions…
At least not on Paper.

Another fail I presume, will top PvP player come back for this ? not a chance.

Moorecore.6349:

It’s just another sPvP map

Epic fail of resources

It’s another gamemode, which is part of sPvP.

What did you expect?

8v8 will just destroy GW2 pvp, don’t even think about it.
This game has no healer, so you can’t treat it like GW1, which a proper heal can ease the spike or call target of 8 other players. (Technically it’s just 6, because in GW1, healers don’t normally do damage.)

In GW2, every single classes can do heavy damage/condition, so 5 people call target is already heavy enough load. If there’s really 8 v 8, it basically forces out all the none team oriented class. (Infinite Rally banners from warriors, numerous cleanse from Guardian, Engi, Ele, etc)

The only reason 8V8 works in old hotjoin is because they’re terrible players. (5 people stand on empty node, 7 people roam together, etc)

The question is, “Can top PvP players and casual PvP players both enjoy the same game mode?”.

sPvP is too high level for casual PvP’ers.

WvW is too casual for high level PvP’ers.

This might be just right.

Moorecore.6349:

It’s just another sPvP map

Epic fail of resources

lol where are the capture points then? you know, the fundamental backbone mechanic of current PvP?

sminkiottone.6972:

Another fail I presume, will top PvP player come back for this ? not a chance.

No, but will 11+ new skills per class, reworked traits, and a brand new profession? Most likely. Whether they stay around for long is a question of how well ANet follows up on balancing, but for a while the game should be pretty active, it is a ton of changes and is sure to mess with the meta.

I much prefer 5v5 over anything higher for competitive play. It becomes way more difficult to organize more and more players on a team. It’s also easier for casuals to find 5 people and queue.

It’s also good that you can customize those options in custom arena for however many you actually want.

I think some of you are overstating the relevance of the NPCs. Make it 8v8 in CAs and whilst it would be chaotic, I think it would make for a fun watch. More than we may realize right now.

I think if they want to attract the max amount of players to Stronghold, they really need two different versions.

5v5 is too small for casual PvP’ers. But anything over 5v5 is too many for competitive PvP’ers.

Custom arenas are ok but it just splits the community too much. Two versions would be better.

A competitive bracket with 5v5. A non-competitive or casual bracket with 8-12v8-12.

Johje Holan.4607:

I think if they want to attract the max amount of players to Stronghold, they really need two different versions.

5v5 is too small for casual PvP’ers. But anything over 5v5 is too many for competitive PvP’ers.

Custom arenas are ok but it just splits the community too much. Two versions would be better.

A competitive bracket with 5v5. A non-competitive or casual bracket with 8-12v8-12.

The article highlighted that there will be some casual/PvE-friendly role(s) in this gamemode, there is no further reason to minimalize the need for individual skill by increasing the team sizes imo.

Yea this is going to be another courtyard map.
They should hire the people who developed gvg in gw1.

All the negative comments I’m reading are ridiculous… we seriously don’t know anything until beta is here.

On paper it actually sounds fun and non zergy like courtyard.
You’ll probably have a two Runners who’s job is to kill foes and tackle other enemy players, while your other team gather supplies. May need to switch out rotations if players get downed ahead, respawns may need to gather supplies until another rotation is needed.

If it’s anything like that, and it’s not too much of a zerg fest, I’m all in.

What I’d like to see is Level ups, getting pieces of equipment after X amounts of Gold. Equipment could be soldiers, zerks, clerics, etc. That would be an interesting Moba idea :p

It’s a good decision.

Saiyan.1704:

All the negative comments I’m reading are ridiculous… we seriously don’t know anything until beta is here.

On paper it actually sounds fun and non zergy like courtyard.
You’ll probably have a two Runners who’s job is to kill foes and tackle other enemy players, while your other team gather supplies. May need to switch out rotations if players get downed ahead, respawns may need to gather supplies until another rotation is needed.

If it’s anything like that, and it’s not too much of a zerg fest, I’m all in.

What I’d like to see is Level ups, getting pieces of equipment after X amounts of Gold. Equipment could be soldiers, zerks, clerics, etc. That would be an interesting Moba idea :p

i dont think individual power creep is a good idea… would make the matches too long imo. gathering supply and/or hiring heros will be the extent of the power creep I hope. that’s the main thing about DOTA I don’t like is that matches can easily last an hour.

Gonna love this can’t wait to try it out… seems like a lot of tactics mixed in with fighting. When you mix in this map, the Revenant, and the specializations… fights are gonna be pretty wacky >:)
For those saying it’s “not competitive” …. if you can bring more of your guild (people who may not be the strongest players in the game) to play their part = more people interested = larger community participating = more teams = more overall competition.
We’ll see how it’s gonna turn out

RIP stronghold. WvW guilds will keep playing wvw. Pve players will keep farming. Spvp will just become more fragmented and probably attract no players. Focus in esport is just killing the pvp in this game.

Solstice.1097:

Saiyan.1704:

All the negative comments I’m reading are ridiculous… we seriously don’t know anything until beta is here.

On paper it actually sounds fun and non zergy like courtyard.
You’ll probably have a two Runners who’s job is to kill foes and tackle other enemy players, while your other team gather supplies. May need to switch out rotations if players get downed ahead, respawns may need to gather supplies until another rotation is needed.

If it’s anything like that, and it’s not too much of a zerg fest, I’m all in.

What I’d like to see is Level ups, getting pieces of equipment after X amounts of Gold. Equipment could be soldiers, zerks, clerics, etc. That would be an interesting Moba idea :p

i dont think individual power creep is a good idea… would make the matches too long imo. gathering supply and/or hiring heros will be the extent of the power creep I hope. that’s the main thing about DOTA I don’t like is that matches can easily last an hour.

Yet millions of people play moba type games.
Whether it takes 15m or 45m, time is going to be irrelevant if people love the gamemode.

The start will be a zerg fest. 1 pile of supplies, both teams start with nothing & you can’t do anything without supplies. 5v5 on sups. You wipe & you will be so far behind it won’t be funny. Sure thieves might be able to snag some and run off during the fight, but my guess is massive AOE fest on sups at start. Might mellow out after that though for some small skirmishes.

I really think this will promote a lot of macro strategy and movements, which are great to cast about. There will be interesting calls about how teams split and prioritize the objectives.

It also should split fights into skirmishes that are 2v2 and 3v3. I think actual 4v4 and 5v5s will be rare.

I think somewhere around 5 will be the right size, but 6v6 might not be terrible either.

Bhawb.7408:

sminkiottone.6972:

Another fail I presume, will top PvP player come back for this ? not a chance.

No, but will 11+ new skills per class, reworked traits, and a brand new profession? Most likely. Whether they stay around for long is a question of how well ANet follows up on balancing, but for a while the game should be pretty active, it is a ton of changes and is sure to mess with the meta.

sPvP is designed for casual players, nothing more, this expansion will only bring back some of them but no good player will look at it, it’s just not the game and it never has been. I still enjoy it for a few matches when I have some free time but if I want a real PvP I go somewhere else like most people do

Swish.2463:

Sounds like fun on paper.

Totally not GvG or a suitable replacement for those hoping for, or wanting a Suspenseful and tension filled Death match of Push and Pull with Multiple “Win” Conditions…
At least not on Paper.

Its basically just a moba, so those wanting GvG are going to be disappointed.

GhOst.4019:

The start will be a zerg fest. 1 pile of supplies, both teams start with nothing & you can’t do anything without supplies. 5v5 on sups. You wipe & you will be so far behind it won’t be funny. Sure thieves might be able to snag some and run off during the fight, but my guess is massive AOE fest on sups at start. Might mellow out after that though for some small skirmishes.

According to the site, a zerg fest isn’t exactly accurate.http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/
You’ll have an Offense lane, sending troops and a Defense lane, killing enemy troops.

As well as NPC guards, each team has a trebuchet that can fling boulders across the map. Teams can use the trebuchet to control key points across the map – locking down the supply camp, or harassing an offensive push.

Are you 100% sure about there only being 1 supply depot? Idk if it’s going to be a territory that’s always contested, idk how that’s going to work along with other elements.

This is what intrigues me
Through testing, the team has already seen such roles naturally emerge. High DPS builds can attempt to clear the offensive lane of enemy players and NPCs, evasive builds lend themselves to ferrying supply, and support builds can use buffs to speed up and protect doorbreakers. Even manning the trebuchet has its own considerations, as the player can be harassed by a roaming opponent looking to destabilise the team’s ability to control the map.

-High Dps, zerks or cele self sustaining builds
-Team support for troops, I suspect aoe swiftness and protection is sought for.
-Ranger, ele and thief are best at running supplies.
-Some one manning Treb.
Not sure if teams would actually send 2 people to take out Treb early game, so they’ll waste supplies rebuilding it.

EDITED
You’re right it does say Central Depot on the article.

morrolan.9608:

Swish.2463:

Sounds like fun on paper.

Totally not GvG or a suitable replacement for those hoping for, or wanting a Suspenseful and tension filled Death match of Push and Pull with Multiple “Win” Conditions…
At least not on Paper.

Its basically just a moba, so those wanting GvG are going to be disappointed.

GvG was defined by Guild lord and Flag. We got the Lord and the flag may very well be replaced by the creep mechanics.
We’ll have to wait and see how it plays.

But you’ll never ever get GvG like in gw1. Even if they add it, with a complete copy paste, it wouldn’t be the same. The game is not build with 8v8 in mind nor with the front/mid/backline nor with collision nor with a slower gameplay, etc.

We can only pray for a suitable successor. Stronghold may very well be that.

so

so

hyped

for

this

I laughed when I read the following lines.

" Rather than fight players, NPCs are designed to help a team push forward through the map"

And

“We definitely see this being the future of PvP for Guild Wars 2.”

Countless

Trigr.6481:

I laughed when I read the following lines.

" Rather than fight players, NPCs are designed to help a team push forward through the map"

And

“We definitely see this being the future of PvP for Guild Wars 2.”

Countless

it makes sense to me. it’s saying the NPCs aren’t attacking people, as in only players attack players, as in PvP not PvE. maybe we are reading it differently idk

Why do people complain when player vs. player games involve more than just player vs. player combat. MOBAs and starcraft are player vs. player but include other elements than just charging in a brawling.

Trying to bring more macro strategy into GW2’s combat to make it more viewable and castable is a good thing, and doesn’t take away from the actual beauty of the combat system.

An unranked lobby of this should be available in 8/10/12 man formats.

We still get skills balanced around 3 control points. For all modes of the game. It’s terrible.

witcher.3197:

Johje Holan.4607:

I think if they want to attract the max amount of players to Stronghold, they really need two different versions.

5v5 is too small for casual PvP’ers. But anything over 5v5 is too many for competitive PvP’ers.

Custom arenas are ok but it just splits the community too much. Two versions would be better.

A competitive bracket with 5v5. A non-competitive or casual bracket with 8-12v8-12.

The article highlighted that there will be some casual/PvE-friendly role(s) in this gamemode, there is no further reason to minimalize the need for individual skill by increasing the team sizes imo.

So play the competitive 5v5 bracket. I’m telling you casual players like larger teams. 5 is too small.

Johje Holan.4607:

witcher.3197:

Johje Holan.4607:

I think if they want to attract the max amount of players to Stronghold, they really need two different versions.

5v5 is too small for casual PvP’ers. But anything over 5v5 is too many for competitive PvP’ers.

Custom arenas are ok but it just splits the community too much. Two versions would be better.

A competitive bracket with 5v5. A non-competitive or casual bracket with 8-12v8-12.

The article highlighted that there will be some casual/PvE-friendly role(s) in this gamemode, there is no further reason to minimalize the need for individual skill by increasing the team sizes imo.

So play the competitive 5v5 bracket. I’m telling you casual players like larger teams. 5 is too small.

Casuals like bigger numbers because they want to slack off and still have a chance of competing, because the larger the group size, the less impact on each individual’s skills, so 1 of 8 people being bad is not as bad as 1 of 5 people being bad.

ANET is not going to start class balancing around anything greater than 5v5.

^

That and ESL announcers are going to kitten bricks. They would only tell you half of what’s going on in the game… Not to mention that watching more than 10 people on a map isn’t exactly entertaining

Stronghold – 5v5?

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey all,

On this Friday’s Ready Up (12pm pst @ www.twitch.tv/guildwars2) I’ll be joined by PvP Game Designer Hugh Norfolk for a deep dive on the new game mode coming with Heart of Thorns – Stronghold. This will be our first in-depth in-game walkthrough.

There’s a lot of information available on the new map via our recent PCGamer interview, and we’ll have some additional information coming out before Friday.

We’ll probably be pretty strapped for time on the show because we have an entire map to show off, but if we have time at the end I’d like for us to answer some of your questions. Feel free reply below with any burning questions you might have and we’ll see if we can fit them in.

Thanks,

Josh

Nice!

I hope it’s not another disappointment, like the last 3 streams.

Note: I wonder why Anet always hosts pve streamers after their shows, and never PvP players

Will we be able to apply for a beta like we did with EotM?

Will conquest and Stronghold be balanced separately? For example if one class is OP at Stronghold but weak in conquest… like how SH is so vertical and no capture points could mean that ranged and stealth classes have a significant advantage that they don’t currently have.

Will our SH and Conquest builds be separate, or will I have to re-do my build whenever I switch between the two?

Is the treb mechanic different than the ones Kyhlo and if so how?

What sort of progression will there be besides the leaderboard? Will there be rank 1-80 with titles, finishers, and achievements similar to conquest? Will it be completely separate from your conquest rank/stats, will both sPvP modes share the same rank etc?

Will we still queue from HotM and will the queue system work the same way?

I heard that players cannot damage the door is that true?
Any time limit on length of match?
Can you give an example of the type of roles you found during your testing?
Can you find a way to better communicate the purpose of the map because a lot of Zergers were expecting another zerging map.

Josh Davis.6015:

Josh Davis.6015:

Hey all,

On this Friday’s Ready Up (12pm pst @ www.twitch.tv/guildwars2) I’ll be joined by PvP Game Designer Hugh Norfolk for a deep dive on the new game mode coming with Heart of Thorns – Stronghold. This will be our first in-depth in-game walkthrough.

There’s a lot of information available on the new map via our recent PCGamer interview, and we’ll have some additional information coming out before Friday.

We’ll probably be pretty strapped for time on the show because we have an entire map to show off, but if we have time at the end I’d like for us to answer some of your questions. Feel free reply below with any burning questions you might have and we’ll see if we can fit them in.

Thanks,

Josh

Nice!

I hope it’s not another disappointment, like the last 3 streams.

Note: I wonder why Anet always hosts pve streamers after their shows, and never PvP players

POI has always been a rehash of things we already know. I still don’t understand people can’t understand such a simple concept.