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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

On the January 26 update, the following changes were made to the game.

“Finish Them” Finishers: The stomping effect will no longer be time-scaled through effects like quickness and slow.
Reviving: Reviving characters will no longer be affected by time-scaled effects like quickness and slow.

I believe that these changes were done for 2 reasons.

1. Direct response to the famous chronobunker stacking that occurred in S1.
2. a visual bug would occurred between the char and the stomping animation, a
“desync”.

Let’s discuss #2 first.

Stomping takes about 3 seconds. I have several older youtube videos of using time warp to stomp 2 players within TW’s 10 second period and there never is any desyncing.

The desync’g bug occurs when the quickness duration is less than the 3 seconds stomp cast. Or when “slow” gets applied in the middle of the stomping cast.

For example, Chronomancer have a GM trait that grants them quickness when they shatter based on how many illusions. So it was very common for Chrono’s to “start the stomp” and then shatter getting 1-2 seconds of quickness. This would result in the “desync”. Also, Well of Action applies quickness and could be cast a teammate mid stomp/rez which would then “desync”.

On the other side, was Revenants down state abilities. Essence Sap applies 1 second slow. So the stomper would receive 1 sec slows in the middle of cast.

What is interesting is that Time Warp has enabled quickness stomping/rez’g since the beginning and there never was any issue of desync’g. Only when “slow” was added as a new condition as part of June 2016 patch and the addtion of HOT new traits and skills did the “desync’g” make an appearance.

Now, let’s discuss reason #1.

We all know season 1 was very embarrassing to say the least. In October, HOT was released bringing new Elite’s and a new profession. Lots of additional skills, traits and abilities were added. 6 weeks later, season 1 started and NO BALANCE PATCH. It was a recipe for disaster.

Yes, Chronobunker was very strong bunker. There were other stronger bunkers (and still are) in the game. The reason Chronobunker was chosen over all other bunkers was the quickness rez/stomp. The combination of a strong bunker AND quick rez/stomping is just too good a fit for conquest game mode.

Please remember, Chronobunker was not the ONLY class that was getting stacked. Revenant also shared the limelight. Chronobunker was strong, but it couldn’t kill anything. So Chronobunker was there to hold a point and keep the Revenant up.

Since then Chrono and Rev’s have seen the majority of nerfs. Chrono took some huge hits and Mesmer along with it. Chrono is not even close to the bunker it once was.

ESL has also implement rules to limit class stacking in its tournament.

Thus, the changes to quickness/slow affecting stomp/rez’g should be reverted.

Really it comes down to this. How can ANet single out a specific boon/condition when it comes down to the downstate? How is that justified?

Ranger can use a pet to speed his rez or finish a down player while he’s on the other side of the map. Not too mention, Search and Rescue, can teleport a down player (no LOS) and speed up rez.

Stealth allows players to go invisible to down/stomp a player. Other professions have easy access to “Stabilty” to rez/stomp a player. While others have mulitple CC, chill, fear, etc. Other profession have high damaging traps, wells, and AOE’s to finish a player or prevent a stomp.

Why single out a specific condition/boon/ability, but not all the others? Either balance around ALL abilities, or remove the downed state from sPvP.

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
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Posted by: Dahkeus.8243

Dahkeus.8243

Hell no.

HELL

NO

That was the single best change of the patch.

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Posted by: kuben.9826

kuben.9826

Personally idc as long as revenants downed AA is changed to apply chill (chill would even fit the class better than slow but who cares)
If this does not happen then it’s big “No, no, no!” for me.

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

Funny though as I remember being stomped quicker than the cast time of a stomp recently. Maybe my screen just showed me down later than it did for everyone else…

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Posted by: Jaxom.7310

Jaxom.7310

nope, no revert

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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

it should’ve never existed on the first place and people who want this to be brought back are either completely clueless about the game design or rev/mesmer mains or usually both

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

I knew I could count on Lexander support.

And if you knew anything about game design, you would know better.

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

I knew I could count on Lexander support.

And if you knew anything about game design, you would know better.

its not so often when my opinion happens to be the same or similar to the opinion of the majority but whenever that happens then it simply means you have no chance to prove me wrong

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

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Posted by: MadVisions.4529

MadVisions.4529

quick!!! someone blow the goof bugle!!!

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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

Just because the masses don’t like a mechanic does not make it “balanced”

Quickness is a boon that is part of the game and always has been. The quickness/slow nerf was a knee jerk reaction to a incredibly unbalance HOT release and embarrassing ESL performance.

Isolating that one boon, when there is just as many other mechanics that unfairly affect rez/stomping is crappy game balancing.

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
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Posted by: Krysard.1364

Krysard.1364

lol no

M I L K B O I S

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Posted by: Oslaf Beinir.5842

Oslaf Beinir.5842

Yes please! I would like to see bunker mesmer and revenants trivialize stomping and reviving once again! oh and I want to have my Jesus Druid rezz even faster!

Attachments:

Get In The Van Yo[PR] -Play on Far Shiverpeaks/Gunner’s Hold/Vabbi

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140

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Posted by: Doggie.3184

Doggie.3184

No

| Fort Aspenwood (NA): Sylvari Daredevil Thief Main: All Classes 80. |
Please Remove/Fix Thief Trait: “Last Refuge.”
“Hard to Catch” is a Horrible and Useless Trait. Fixed 6/23/15. Praise Dwayna.

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Posted by: Alekt.5803

Alekt.5803

No thank you. No.

Alerie Despins

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

To the OP: It wouldn’t be a problem to revert if they nerf quickness access significantly (down to pre-HoT levels). For most of the game’s duration, quickness even came with a significant drawback (no endurance regen, you take double damage, no healing). Back then, skills that gave quickness, even the guardian elite shout, had a reasonably cooldown and it allowed for good counterplay. Chronobunker just had on-demand quickness with every shatter, and constant shatters thanks to alacrity.

Mechanics like slow on revenant auto-downed (making stomps on revs take 2x as long), quickness res, and the rev damage inversion trait completely messed up the balance of stomps. The only mechanic that still exists and is stupid is the druid shout, only because there isn’t a solid form of counterplay: just an instant cast and instant teleport (compare this to the ele glyph that resses people and has a 3.25 s cast and 165s cast time). This should at least require the pet to run to the person so that it can be snared/interrupted.

Funny though as I remember being stomped quicker than the cast time of a stomp recently. Maybe my screen just showed me down later than it did for everyone else…

Was there a thief on the other team?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finishing_Blow

(edited by BlackBeard.2873)

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Posted by: Ayrilana.1396

Ayrilana.1396

To the OP: It wouldn’t be a problem to revert if they nerf quickness access significantly (down to pre-HoT levels). For most of the game’s duration, quickness even came with a significant drawback (no endurance regen, you take double damage, no healing). Back then, skills that gave quickness, even the guardian elite shout, had a reasonably cooldown and it allowed for good counterplay. Chronobunker just had on-demand quickness with every shatter, and constant shatters thanks to alacrity.

Mechanics like slow on revenant auto-downed (making stomps on revs take 2x as long), quickness res, and the rev damage inversion trait completely messed up the balance of stomps. The only mechanic that still exists and is stupid is the druid shout, only because there isn’t a solid form of counterplay: just an instant cast and instant teleport (compare this to the ele glyph that resses people and has a 3.25 s cast and 165s cast time). This should at least require the pet to run to the person so that it can be snared/interrupted.

Funny though as I remember being stomped quicker than the cast time of a stomp recently. Maybe my screen just showed me down later than it did for everyone else…

Was there a thief on the other team?

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Finishing_Blow

Maybe, we were all clustered around one of the mists. It was pretty quick so that may have been it.

(edited by Ayrilana.1396)

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Posted by: Kuya.6495

Kuya.6495

OP is literally insane

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Posted by: SlimChance.6593

SlimChance.6593

Quickness stomps/rez’g has been part of the game since beta.

Even during season 1, there was NEVER any specific complaints about quickness stomp/rez’g. The only complaints were about the desync’g that was happening. and not about the actual application of it.

Until ANet “out of the blue” made the change was there never any mention of it.

This change was a reaction to the embarrassing ESL finals. It has more to do with “viewership” then it does with “balance”.

If it was really related to game balance, why does chill still affect stomp/rez’g. Why does Search N’ Rescue still exist? Why are those mechanics (and others) allowed to effect stomp/rez’g but not quickness/slow?

Eccho, Echo Oread – Mesmers (Yak’s Bend)
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Posted by: Lexander.4579

Lexander.4579

Quickness stomps/rez’g has been part of the game since beta.

and its never been a good idea

better late than never though

Alex Shadowdagger – Thief – Blacktide

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

No. That change was fine. The next one is invulnerable.

The only ‘stomp helpers’ that have counters available often enough are stability, stealth, CC and blocks. Anything else, such as evades, quickness, and invulnerability should either not affect finisher skills or prevent finishing.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

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Posted by: PowerBottom.5796

PowerBottom.5796

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

No. That change was fine. The next one is invulnerable.

The only ‘stomp helpers’ that have counters available often enough are stability, stealth, CC and blocks. Anything else, such as evades, quickness, and invulnerability should either not affect finisher skills or prevent finishing.

The counter to invuln stomps is stealth. It just doesn’t work when your team-mate is dumb enough to spam 1 while stealthed because 200 extra damage is totally worth getting stomped!

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Posted by: Krysard.1364

Krysard.1364

This should at least require the pet to run to the person so that it can be snared/interrupted.

It actually does

Even during season 1, there was NEVER any specific complaints about quickness stomp/rez’g.

Where you sleeping during the whole s1?

M I L K B O I S

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Posted by: style.6173

style.6173

@OP,

No way. Really bad idea. In fact, I want to see the speed res of search and rescue nerfed next. It shouldn’t be possible to res in under a second.

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Posted by: MithranArkanere.8957

MithranArkanere.8957

No. That change was fine. The next one is invulnerable.

The only ‘stomp helpers’ that have counters available often enough are stability, stealth, CC and blocks. Anything else, such as evades, quickness, and invulnerability should either not affect finisher skills or prevent finishing.

The counter to invuln stomps is stealth. It just doesn’t work when your team-mate is dumb enough to spam 1 while stealthed because 200 extra damage is totally worth getting stomped!

The key part of what I say is ‘available often enough’.

Stealth is not reliable enough because is not available often enough to be a good counter. Basically only engineer, mesmer and thief can have them ready enough. While all the other counters are mention are much more available across many professions.

Now, if Smoke fields were renamed to ‘Dust field’ so it’s more generic and made sense with a wider variety of themes (most smoke has particles of dust, but not the other way around, so Dust is more generic), we could have more skills creating the blind/stealth field like Dust Storm, Sandstorm, Ground Shaker or Drop the Hammer. Not just things that make smoke, but also things that raise dust or put lots of particles in the air. Then we’d be able to blast some more stealth, and have enough around to be enough of a counter.

SUGGEST-A-TRON says:
PAY—ONCE—UNLOCKS—ARE—ALWAYS—BETTER.
No exceptions!

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Posted by: BlackBeard.2873

BlackBeard.2873

This should at least require the pet to run to the person so that it can be snared/interrupted.

It actually does

It actually doesn’t. The pet just has to be within 900 range of the target, then it instantly teleports ontop of that person and they both teleport to the ranger. There is no run animation going towards the downed player.

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Posted by: Exedore.6320

Exedore.6320

I’d like to see it return. Quickness and Slow on stomp/res was fine until elite specs + Revenant. Quickness was usually on long cooldowns or had trade-offs.

With elite specs and Revenant, there’s too much access to quickness and slow with no real trade-off. Unless quickness and slow go back to pre-HoT levels, rez/stomp needs to remain unaffected by them.

Kirrena Rosenkreutz

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

If it was really related to game balance, why does chill still affect stomp/rez’g.

It doesn’t…

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Agemnon.4608

Agemnon.4608

I say no to this BUT that stomping speed needs a 20% buff. We have skills like search and rescue that aid in rezzing.

It wouldn’t be a problem to revert if they nerf quickness access significantly (down to pre-HoT levels).

Only if they nerf chill and cripple access along with it.

The only mechanic that still exists and is stupid is the druid shout, only because there isn’t a solid form of counterplay

On revenant if you’re in Shiro you can phase traversal and cleave. If you’re in Glint and Shiro is on cooldown then the fire move and facet of chaos use can cleave or blow them away respectively. Due to stability however Shiro teleporting and cleaving is more reliable overall.

Speaking of downed the damage you take when downed should carry over somewhat after you’re rezzed or rallied with downed penalties, with a bare minimum of 20% HP after rez and if you take no damage while being rezzed you get the standard 50% HP after rez. Being rezzed or rallied would give necros 0% lifeforce so they’d have to build it up all over again if they’re rezzed.