Guild Wars 2

Archaon.6245:

Mif.3471:

daydream.2938:

To quote the devs. “thiefs give new players alot of trouble, but kinda fade out the higher level of play you get to”

New player tries sPVP
New player gets one shot by Thief
New player new plays sPVP again
Dev’s wonder why sPVP isn’t more popular

Pretty much everyone here got oneshotted by a thief when he got in spvp for the first time, it’s normal and one day you just learn how they work and they’re going not to be a problem anymore….you know if you are new to something called pvp in every game you’re supposed to die, even really badly vs more skilled/experienced players….and you have 2 choices:

1 – You can cry like a kid and stop playing forever because someone killed you, maybe going on forums whining.

2 – You can try to figure out how he managed to kill you and where you did wrong, something like…“Well he got me in 2 secs, but he can’t kill that other more experienced player running my same spec, what is he doing to avoid his burst? Why i can’t do the same? Let’s try to figure out how he plays my same class, if he can laugh at thieves so it’s possible to do so…and i must learn how”

If you take a look at qq thief posts you’ll se that high rank players don’t have problems with thieves at all, expec the ones playing high level paids so it’s just your choice if you want to learn counters or just sit here crying for mom…nothing more, nothing less.

Not everyone complaining about a thief is new. I’m the OP and I’m almost lvl 30. Hardly a new player or one who gives up. If you read my original post, you’ll see I had specifically said that I know how to fight thieves. I’ve killed tons of them and enjoyed it.

But this particular combo has to be nerfed for any of the reasons already mentioned.

The top team in Na atm is probably PZ. They dont run a thief, i heard some of there members say they felt thiefs didnt bring enough to groups typically.

But, thiefs do give newer players alot of trouble.

Kasama.8941:

The game shouldn’t just be balance for a higher skill level minority, it should be fair for everyone, regardless of game mode. This whole idea that Thieves are fine, as long as you’re playing on a higher skill level, is just ignorant. Most players will never have the skill level of someone who plays in paid, but that doesn’t mean their experience with the game is less important.

Games that at the low tier seem balanced are almost always either unbalanced at the high tier (Smash Bros is a prime example, having gone so far as to ban Metaknight from tournament play) or lacks depth at which bores those that reach the skill cap, or worse, puts fresh newbies on the same level as veterans.
I can’t think of any game with depth, that has achieved balance at all levels of play.

And yet “balance at all levels of play” has basically nothing to do with the topic.

Dev comments about the class in general have nothing to do with the topic.

Funny how people try to take the discussion off-topic to avoid the main issue.

Be grateful you don’t play a warrior profession.. you’re limited and at a lot disadvantages ;p

I think what alot of people are missing, which is the core point of this thread, is that the burst of those abilities (and auguably, all burst) is too high to make pvp enjoyable for casual-mid level players.

Hardcore players will not complain as much because by nature they learn to adapt to whatever game it is they have chosen to master. Also because they likely play on 5v5 teams that include a burst element so they are in effect using this “overpowered” aspect to their advantage.

But ask yourself this. If Guild Wars 2 is to continue to succeed as a tier 1 MMORPG, do you think it’s PVP will fare well if a new player goes into a hotjoin with his default pvp build and dies in less than 1 second to a theif? Or to a warrior with frenzy/100b?

Arena net has stated in interviews that they want to take steps to further educate players in pvp how to counter common strategies, but as long as the ability to insta-gib players exisits, it will always be an issue. It is my personal opinion that no mmorpg should have burst as high as this in a pvp system built from the ground up with the intent to be fair and balanced. In the mmos I have played, wow, gw1, sto, Aion, I’ve never died in less than 2 seconds from an opponent at the same level/gearing as me.

This isn’t Call of Duty, you should at least have a fighting chance even if an opponent gets a jump on you. Regardless of how “glass” your build is.

daydream.2938:

The top team in Na atm is probably PZ. They dont run a thief, i heard some of there members say they felt thiefs didnt bring enough to groups typically.

But, thiefs do give newer players alot of trouble.

That’s why i almost totally left thief and i play mesmer/guardian only when going paids..with mes you bring lots of dps, just little under thief…but you dps on aoe and god, you have soooo much more team support and survivability, 1 mesmer is more useful in tourneys than 2 thieves of the same skill level…imo

urinfamousr.7631:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZJJVutOIQs

thief so easy even a 5 yr old could master it lol enjoy he even has live commentary

HAHAHAHAHAHA..You made my day^^!

let us stop to continue to talk kitten …. 7000 in one hit …. in a team fight is a heresy …. end of discussion .. useless to defend a class that NEED NERF.

@OP

Thieves are THE best glass cannon burst, as they should be because they are terrible at everything else. A full glass cannon thief, vs a full glass cannon mesmer (you, cloth), he is going to kill you extremely quickly. I’d say 4-5 hits on average. With some luck (crits and buffs), occasionally you will see it in 2 hits. The counter to glass cannon is not be glass cannon. You are sacrificing survivability for dps. That is your choice. So are they. If you have any clones up and they hit him when he comes out of stealth, he’s probably at half health already. You can down him from downed state at that point. Also, having tried a glass cannon thief, I can tell you it’s very hard to get a stomp because enemies will kill you before you can get it off (the downed guy or their teammates).

Additionally, there is no hard counter for stealth. Deal with it. In my opinion there shouldn’t be. Soft counter is aoe attacks and spamming 1. It doesn’t last long and they aren’t invulnerable while stealthed.

In summary… it shouldn’t be common, but it should be possible. Working as intended.

Archaon.6245:

daydream.2938:

The top team in Na atm is probably PZ. They dont run a thief, i heard some of there members say they felt thiefs didnt bring enough to groups typically.

But, thiefs do give newer players alot of trouble.

That’s why i almost totally left thief and i play mesmer/guardian only when going paids..with mes you bring lots of dps, just little under thief…but you dps on aoe and god, you have soooo much more team support and survivability, 1 mesmer is more useful in tourneys than 2 thieves of the same skill level…imo

Mesmer and thief are two totally different classes.

Thief damage is way higher than a mesmer, especially after shattered strenght ( rightful) nerf.

The thief is squishier, sure, but excels in doing what he’s meant for: damage, both single target and AoE; that’s why you need better communication with your team, better positioning and more awereness to play a thief over a mesmer.

On the other side, a mesmer can offer the best group utility available with time warp, portal and illusion of life, while having also good damage.

Surely stacking thieves in a team is nonsense due to the class being so much pigeon holed into burst ( kitten that 15th november) while stacking mesmers can still give goods to your team, but saying that the thief is TOTALLY worse than a mesmer is simply not true.

But i won’t disagree that mesmers are overall better than thieves.

I have hopes for february patch: maybe the following toning down on burts-bunkering-AoE , followed with some buffs here and there, will open the path to more thief builds, and people will stop crying about thieves, that are FORCED to go glass cannon in order to be viable.

YojimboJones.6243:

I think what alot of people are missing, which is the core point of this thread, is that the burst of those abilities (and auguably, all burst) is too high to make pvp enjoyable for casual-mid level players.

Hardcore players will not complain as much because by nature they learn to adapt to whatever game it is they have chosen to master. Also because they likely play on 5v5 teams that include a burst element so they are in effect using this “overpowered” aspect to their advantage.

But ask yourself this. If Guild Wars 2 is to continue to succeed as a tier 1 MMORPG, do you think it’s PVP will fare well if a new player goes into a hotjoin with his default pvp build and dies in less than 1 second to a theif? Or to a warrior with frenzy/100b?

Arena net has stated in interviews that they want to take steps to further educate players in pvp how to counter common strategies, but as long as the ability to insta-gib players exisits, it will always be an issue. It is my personal opinion that no mmorpg should have burst as high as this in a pvp system built from the ground up with the intent to be fair and balanced. In the mmos I have played, wow, gw1, sto, Aion, I’ve never died in less than 2 seconds from an opponent at the same level/gearing as me.

This isn’t Call of Duty, you should at least have a fighting chance even if an opponent gets a jump on you. Regardless of how “glass” your build is.

As things stand currently, insta-gib can’t be cut and dry removed, least in thief’s case. Thief has a lot of good tricks at his disposal, unfortunately, all but one of them are useless in a point control game.
Unfortunately the one useful trick is the much hated burst. And even with burst, as OP’d as it is, it only barely keeps thieves viable.
So if they nerf the burst, it’s imperative that they buff something else in return. And not just anything, something useful to point control.
(This it the reason why many thief players defend burst, it’s not that they want to be OP’d, it’s that they don’t want to be useless)

YojimboJones.6243:

This isn’t Call of Duty, you should at least have a fighting chance even if an opponent gets a jump on you. Regardless of how “glass” your build is.

This isn’t WoW either and we don’t need hour long arena matches. And no you shouldn’t last long if you get jumped by another glass cannon and you are a glass build as well. You’re trying to take both the cannon and glass part of out glass cannon.

What’s left? A homogenized system that can only attain mediocrity at best. People should be free to make their build as tanky or glass as they want and be rewarded/punished appropriately. Glass cannons just need to realize they are going to die very quickly, and maybe absurdly quickly to other glass cannons, and not complain about it.

I personally don’t think glass cannon is a viable PvP build. This design is more for PvE, but people like big numbers, so whatever. Occasionally a glass cannon will catch me off guard and blow me up… but if their burst fails… Let’s just say they die more than I do.

Hello,

There is already a dedicated thread about the thief here : The thief and its gameplay – Your feedback.

Therefore this one is now closed.

Thank you.