Guild Wars 2

That thought is inherently flawed… players CANT drop down to their position in ladder as soon as they hit ruby. They are stuck there even though they are NOT good enough for it.

They should just stop playing, which they dont… they get carried to some wins, slowly creeping their way into diamond, which gets even more horrid for them.

Thats the result of a grindable ladder. Has been pointed out in season1, has been pointed out in season2… maybe anet will finally admit to kittening it up and remove division lock in ruby in season3.

Yasi.9065:

That thought is inherently flawed… players CANT drop down to their position in ladder as soon as they hit ruby. They are stuck there even though they are NOT good enough for it.

They should just stop playing, which they dont… they get carried to some wins, slowly creeping their way into diamond, which gets even more horrid for them.

Thats the result of a grindable ladder. Has been pointed out in season1, has been pointed out in season2… maybe anet will finally admit to kittening it up and remove division lock in ruby in season3.

Not entirely true. But close yeah.

Some people here have asked for getting rid of division lock.

Can’t wait to see the complaints about this for S3.

The cycle continues.

Kuya.6495:

Some people here have asked for getting rid of division lock.

Can’t wait to see the complaints about this for S3.

The cycle continues.

Then weaker players can fall ensuring you can climb faster. However, there needs to be a hard MMR reset since the season and previous has trashed MMRs so a preseason is needed too.

You know what would be great? Adding 1v1 best 2/3 game mode. That way, if people get stuck in tiers/divisions, they can’t blame anyone but themselves, and there would be no more problems of being stuck with bad teammates or solo queuing and getting teamed against a friggin full pre-made.

@Evan Lesh

Legendary/Diamond divisions are NOT prestigious. The reason they are not is that they represent an elite. They do not represent skills.

As evidence of this, I present the large number of complaints about poor quality play and players in Diamond.

A true “skill based” ladder would require two things:

A random Solo Queue. Teams are clearly carrying players above there skill level. Random matchmaking would be a fair test of individual player skill over time.

Actually balanced classes. I read somewhere that ANET deliberately overpowers one class or another in order to keep the “meta” moving. That doesn’t work in pvp. It advantages that class which leads to profession stacking.

As it stands, the PvP ladder is not skill based and it never will be. It will remain a test of social networking to get good teams and playing whatever the current most powerful build off metabattle is.

This season should be seen as a wakeup call. People come to pvp to enjoy and to earn titles and trinkets. Deny those titles and trinkets and there’s no reason for people to come play. There’s certainly no enjoyment in being repeatedly stomped.

Increasing division drops will make the situation worse, not better. Forcing uneven matches will continue to drive people away.

There is a place for elite highly skilled players. That place is in tournaments. Main line PvP is not the place to attempt to force ultra competition.

The quality of matches in ruby is simply appalling…

I mean, the other team had a disconnect from start on… but we had a warrior that just went mid teamfight, died, went far alone against respawn, died… after that he constantly just went far against 2 DH standing on point… and died… those 30 points he made because he managed to do a bit of damage before he died.

This is worse than amber. What the hell is that guy doing in ruby?

Yasi.9065:

The quality of matches in ruby is simply appalling…

I mean, the other team had a disconnect from start on… but we had a warrior that just went mid teamfight, died, went far alone against respawn, died… after that he constantly just went far against 2 DH standing on point… and died… those 30 points he made because he managed to do a bit of damage before he died.

This is worse than amber. What the hell is that guy doing in ruby?

lol

This picture is the epitome of S2.
Love the circled Warrior with 30 points btw.

Well, that supports what I am saying. The current system definitely is not producing groups of similar skilled players.

If pips could be dropped, it would simply make the early divisions worse. That in turn would turn off players and hurt PvP.

Lord Hammer Hand.4815:

even if hes a pro he cant carry 4 scrubs or plebs whatever he call u guys from winning a game. everyone is expected to contribute 20% to the team. 1 person may carry 1 more bad player but he can only be effective as 2 person which is 40% the other 3 players must still be doing what they suppose to do.

Exactly.

So all the other uber-pros of the “git gud and carry the game alone” meme should shut the kitten up when other people say “you can’t carry a team of 3-4 bads”, since skill is relative and not absolute.

Ithilwen.1529:

Well, that supports what I am saying. The current system definitely is not producing groups of similar skilled players.

If pips could be dropped, it would simply make the early divisions worse. That in turn would turn off players and hurt PvP.

My picture is a direct result of players grinding their way into ruby and professional achievements.

If division locks are not removed, the league will stay grindable and bad players will continue to accumulate at the last “lock” (→ bottleneck).

This cant be fun, neither for bad players… nor for those belonging there… nor for those that are on their way through.

So, and here’s a screenshot that proofs that score is not everything. That ranger with half the points of me, was actually doing quite good… defending one point – as he should – and making any kind of comeback absolutely impossible, no matter mesmer portal.

@Yasi

The league needs to be grindable. If it is not, too many players will simply give up and leave. See the level of anger now? Imagine what it would be like if players were held in Amber for weeks while the “better” players moved through.

Then they’d be held for weeks more while the legendaries played through on alts, because it’s easier than waiting for matches. Then, they’d most likely give up and go away.

As I said in a previous post, there is a place for ultimate competition. That place is in tournaments. It is not in Main PvP. HOTM PvP is or should be for fun.

Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Those players that will leave, are those players that are pretty toxic for pvp anyway.

Season1 opened a can of worms by making legendary grindable. Now players that are below average at best, think they should always make it to legendary. Without having to improve for it. Without learning basics.

This de-values gw2 pvp even further.

If they give up and go away because they cant make it out of emerald in the first few weeks… then those players are not really trying. With a few improvements to your own game you can get “good enough” for sapphire. If you learn a bit about reading teamcomps, rotating properly and positioning, you will make it into ruby.

Make league grindable and
a) gw2 pvp will be laughingstock, which in turn will simply destroy any kind of pvp community
b) players wont see the need to improve, because they can grind it out anyway…

Both is extremely bad for every kind of pvp gamemode.

PvP is NOT PvE. Making it grindable though, that turns pvp into pve. With no enticement for improvement, you will loose more and more good players, dedicated pvp players, to other games. Players that WANT the competition and dont say “its just a game, doesnt matter if I loose, I can grind my way up anyway”.

And Im really sorry to say this so bluntly, but lets face it. Players without the right attitude wont stay in pvp anyway without some kind of reward being dangled in front of them.

And new players with the right attitude, they will stay when they see that they CAN improve and climb. Atm, those players only see that they are stuck without fair match-ups, without a chance to get better.

/edit:
Btw, that last phrase “pvp should be for fun” is exactly the kind of attitude good pvp players dont have.
But, pvp CAN be fun again for those that are now stuck in ruby/diamond, IF they get demoted to where they have a chance to start a winstreak again. To where they get good match-ups again.
Sure its a blow to the ego at first… but maybe thats EXACTLY what they need.

There is nothing more horrible than the “everybody is a winner” attitude for a competitive environment. You should see that.

I think the long streaks are a bit annoying. I understand grouping lower MMR people within a pip range against the higher MMR people within the same pip range separates the field faster, but it creates some very imbalanced matches which are rather boring, win or loose.

Why not evenly sort MMR within a pip range instead? This would stop the silly streaks and make the games more interesting. I also think gaining 400 points in a match should not result in a pip loss. Maybe have it break the win streak but not loose pips. This will also help separate the field. Players that are out of their league will struggle to get 400 pts.

Yasi.9065:

Btw, that last phrase “pvp should be for fun” is exactly the kind of attitude good pvp players dont have.

Now I have seen it all. Roflmao.

Ithilwen.1529:

@Yasi

The league needs to be grindable. If it is not, too many players will simply give up and leave. See the level of anger now? Imagine what it would be like if players were held in Amber for weeks while the “better” players moved through.

Then they’d be held for weeks more while the legendaries played through on alts, because it’s easier than waiting for matches. Then, they’d most likely give up and go away.

As I said in a previous post, there is a place for ultimate competition. That place is in tournaments. It is not in Main PvP. HOTM PvP is or should be for fun.

Definitely shouldn’t be grindable. Instead people who reach a level where they end up with fair and even matches. The problem is that doesn’t happen for anyone no matter the level. Even after you’ve reached your own peak, the match quality is still horrible

Raek.8504:

Yasi.9065:

Btw, that last phrase “pvp should be for fun” is exactly the kind of attitude good pvp players dont have.

Now I have seen it all. Roflmao.

You’ve seen a pro player after loosing say “ahh… its just a game… its just for fun anyway… lets just not change anything and do the same thing next time… it will work then”

I havent. Please post.

Evan Lesh.3295:

Getting ‘stuck’ in ruby is a very important topic regarding how best league should operate. We changed matchmaking to make the ladder more prestigious and so far it has done that. Divisions are aligning with skill level much better than season 1. The product of this change is that the bulk of players who hover around the middle of the mmr curve should stay in sapphire and ruby. Win rate will level out at 50% because there are plentiful players of similar mmr in the same division.

Should average players be able to climb out of the middle divisions by grinding? This removes prestige and can make matchmaking worse within a division, but always allows a sense of progression.

Should average players stay in the middle divisions because that’s where they belong at their skill level? This retains prestige and only improving skill will allow climbing, but rewards and progression stop at some point through the season.

Is there an incentive that could be added to league games for players who have reached their appropriate division and can no longer climb?

my english is not very good, but did you just say kitten you to the very small player base thats left?

style.6173:

Definitely shouldn’t be grindable. Instead people who reach a level where they end up with fair and even matches. The problem is that doesn’t happen for anyone no matter the level. Even after you’ve reached your own peak, the match quality is still horrible

League rank shouldn’t be grindable but the rewards should be except perhaps for titles. There’s a growing amount of feedback about separating the rewards from the pip system.

Archon.6480:

Why not evenly sort MMR within a pip range instead? This would stop the silly streaks and make the games more interesting. I also think gaining 400 points in a match should not result in a pip loss. Maybe have it break the win streak but not loose pips. This will also help separate the field. Players that are out of their league will struggle to get 400 pts.

Something like this is probably what should happen but there are probably implications for queue ties for higher ranked players. Although those issues exist under the current system anyway.

Yasi.9065:

Raek.8504:

Yasi.9065:

Btw, that last phrase “pvp should be for fun” is exactly the kind of attitude good pvp players dont have.

Now I have seen it all. Roflmao.

You’ve seen a pro player after loosing say “ahh… its just a game… its just for fun anyway… lets just not change anything and do the same thing next time… it will work then”

I havent. Please post.

So everyone who is not pro, actually bad at this game? If pvp is not fun for someone he ll just move on lol.

My experience in Ruby hasn’t been all that bad. So far I’m 4/6 tiers through. Much better progression than what I had in Sapphire.

Yasi.9065:

Im sorry, but I have to disagree. Those players that will leave, are those players that are pretty toxic for pvp anyway.

Not really. Good players are toxic too, e.g helseth.

When people say they think the leagues should be grindable, do they mean they want the Legendary Backpack to be an item they can grind for, and not have to reach high ranks in PvP to obtain it?

If so, then it would seem the backpack is causing so much of the frustration of players that aren’t really into PvP, but doing it for the backpack. I can see that Anet are trying to draw in more people to PvP, but it seems to be doing more harm than good right now.

I’ve been playing PvP for a year, casually, I’m not great, but I’ve learn’t a lot in the last year and I’ve improved a lot since I started. I didn’t take part in season 1 at all, because I didn’t expect the be good enough to get to the higher ranks, so I stuck to Unranked.

I’ve been playing some Ranked this season, to see how I’d do. I’ve been very shocked at the match quality, quite a bit. I remember before the Legendary Backpack was offered as a reward for the seasons, Ranked is where you’d go when you wanted to play the game seriously, against experienced players. However it seems to be the opposite now. In Ranked, I’ve been faced against Thieves that just stand in front of me, auto attacking, Warriors charging into 3v1s, players just pressing all their skills one after the other etc.

I’ve actually been finding better matchups in Unranked, where the games are close and really good. I don’t think I’m good enough to get the backpack, as I only play PvP casually, but I play it because I enjoy PvP, which is why I’ve been playing Unranked more the Ranked. I wouldn’t come straight into PvP, from never playing it and expect to get the Legendary Backpack. This whole thing is causing grief for not just the PvEers that are wanting the reward, but the PvPers that are wanting to have good, close games with other highly skilled players.

I mean, there are reward tracks, which are grindable, so you’re always getting rewarded for taking part in PvP, but I dunno. This Legendary Backpack seems to be causing more harm than good.

Zynt.5769:

When people say they think the leagues should be grindable, do they mean they want the Legendary Backpack to be an item they can grind for, and not have to reach high ranks in PvP to obtain it?

If so, then it would seem the backpack is causing so much of the frustration of players that aren’t really into PvP, but doing it for the backpack. I can see that Anet are trying to draw in more people to PvP, but it seems to be doing more harm than good right now.

Yes a lot of it is about the backpack and yes it is doing far more damage to spvp than good, far far more. I and others in my guild have commented that the ranked season makes us feel so bad that we will get the backpack and then quit the mode entirely. And I’m not a newbie who started spvp with S1. I’ve got to dragon rank.

The achievements for the backpack should either have been just an accumulation of tasks that one can get just by playing ranked not dependent on the rank you get to or it should have been just for players who make legendary division. If the latter then I would know its out of reach and just play ranked for the sake of it and not have to grind pip after godkitten pip.

Terrorsquad.2349:

Yasi.9065:

To be perfectly honest… ruby is atm worse than amber/smaragd regarding quality of players.

And thats purely because players got either carried their by a winstreak, luck and above average starting mmr… or they grinded their way into it.

Thats why matches in ruby are just terrible… this already extends way into diamond too.

So the system is grindable enough.

To improve this, division locks have to be removed, there’s no way around it… only amber and smaragd should be grindable. Sapphire should get smaller tiers without tierlock… and ruby should remove division lock.

This way people can still make their way into ruby (achievement grindable), but they wont stay there if they arent good enough for it.

-> no bottleneck anymore

This should improve overall the distribution of players along the ladder and with that the quality of matches.

/edit
Also… there shouldnt be any comeback pips… you should never be rewarded for loosing… I get the “incentive” thought behind it… but it actually doesnt really help but make ladder more of a grind.
So, instead… Id re-introduce the mechanic of season1, where you didnt loose a pip if it was a close loss to a higher mmr team. This rewards fighting until the end. Which should be enough incentive to get better.

I completely agree but they should remove the division drop in Sapphire aswel.
Otherwise there’s only 1 div drop stopping them from proceeding into ruby, destroy some matches for other ruby div players there and return. Rinse and repeat..

Amber= no div/tier loss but pip loss
Emerald= no div loss but tier and pip loss
Sapphire= div/tier/pip loss
Etc…

If that happens, the wings become for the few, not everyone. ANet said Anyone can get it. This season my win rate has gone from 50/50 to around 30%. It’s taken me close to 2 weeks to get out of T5 sapphire. to say I’m burnt out would be an understatement. as far as ranked go for me, it is not 3 daily games, that’s it. for me the season is over. I’ve lost all will to try and get higher.

Hilarious post Evan. Saying the matchmaking is going better is like saying we got the salmonella out of the meat but we didn’t realize it was already rotten. Way to set the bar low and jump over it…just over it.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Terrorsquad.2349:

Yasi.9065:

To be perfectly honest… ruby is atm worse than amber/smaragd regarding quality of players.

And thats purely because players got either carried their by a winstreak, luck and above average starting mmr… or they grinded their way into it.

Thats why matches in ruby are just terrible… this already extends way into diamond too.

So the system is grindable enough.

To improve this, division locks have to be removed, there’s no way around it… only amber and smaragd should be grindable. Sapphire should get smaller tiers without tierlock… and ruby should remove division lock.

This way people can still make their way into ruby (achievement grindable), but they wont stay there if they arent good enough for it.

-> no bottleneck anymore

This should improve overall the distribution of players along the ladder and with that the quality of matches.

/edit
Also… there shouldnt be any comeback pips… you should never be rewarded for loosing… I get the “incentive” thought behind it… but it actually doesnt really help but make ladder more of a grind.
So, instead… Id re-introduce the mechanic of season1, where you didnt loose a pip if it was a close loss to a higher mmr team. This rewards fighting until the end. Which should be enough incentive to get better.

I completely agree but they should remove the division drop in Sapphire aswel.
Otherwise there’s only 1 div drop stopping them from proceeding into ruby, destroy some matches for other ruby div players there and return. Rinse and repeat..

I feel your pain too am burnt out in sapphire as well
my season is over – even though I am working my hardest to improve and feel I have improved since the start I cant now get out of MMRHell – not good enough to carry and stuck in low MMR – season over for me too – should end it now or put is some MMR resets in the season to help those players who do improve

Amber= no div/tier loss but pip loss
Emerald= no div loss but tier and pip loss
Sapphire= div/tier/pip loss
Etc…

If that happens, the wings become for the few, not everyone. ANet said Anyone can get it. This season my win rate has gone from 50/50 to around 30%. It’s taken me close to 2 weeks to get out of T5 sapphire. to say I’m burnt out would be an understatement. as far as ranked go for me, it is not 3 daily games, that’s it. for me the season is over. I’ve lost all will to try and get higher.

I know the feeling – am burnt out in sapphire – working very hard to improve myself from the start of season and lot has helped from watching videos playing unranked and listening to people on the forum – I have improved but my mmr is now stuck in hell and I have no way of progressing even if I could. I wont give up because that’s not me but season 2 is over for me – maybe some kind of mmr resets at weekly intervals might be an option to help those progress who do show improvement or make the seasons shorter

matchmaking is fine, now change it so that you can lose divisions from sapphire-legendary and tiers from amber-legendary, basically that amber is the only division you can’t drop back into. maybe add placement matches too for better season starts.

another option would be to reset mmr at the start of a season.

Win loss win loss win loss for a week. Then i started a win streak of 20+ and get out of ruby hell. But i can tell that, differently from what the dev said, it wasnt my skill “improving” that decided that was the time i got out of the ruby hell. I played exactly how i played the matches before. Maybe good players managed to get out of ruby this week, so it made my games easier to climb. But still, wasnt me improving XD. Also i cant stop thinking that was the matchmaking deciding me to go up, especialy when a week ago i always got 3-4 necros against, then they diminuished to 1-2 this week, allowing my revenant to be able to play and outrotate them. Also, necros i got in these last 20 games didnt watch my scepter autoattack spam video, so it was easier to deal with them. I cant say they were less skilled (cuz i dont feel there is ANY skill in necro gameplay to start of), but maybe good players are finaly climbing up and this will allow players to climb up to diamond more easily?

Shala.8352:

Win loss win loss win loss for a week. Then i started a win streak of 20+ and get out of ruby hell. But i can tell that, differently from what the dev said, it wasnt my skill “improving” that decided that was the time i got out of the ruby hell. I played exactly how i played the matches before. Maybe good players managed to get out of ruby this week, so it made my games easier to climb. But still, wasnt me improving XD. Also i cant stop thinking that was the matchmaking deciding me to go up, especialy when a week ago i always got 3-4 necros against, then they diminuished to 1-2 this week, allowing my revenant to be able to play and outrotate them. Also, necros i got in these last 20 games didnt watch my scepter autoattack spam video, so it was easier to deal with them. I cant say they were less skilled (cuz i dont feel there is ANY skill in necro gameplay to start of), but maybe good players are finaly climbing up and this will allow players to climb up to diamond more easily?

I doubt it

pvp makes me hate pvp.

So many horrible aspects about it, the balance, the matchmaking can’t think of anything that is decent about it.

godsie.2864:

Shala.8352:

Win loss win loss win loss for a week. Then i started a win streak of 20+ and get out of ruby hell. But i can tell that, differently from what the dev said, it wasnt my skill “improving” that decided that was the time i got out of the ruby hell. I played exactly how i played the matches before. Maybe good players managed to get out of ruby this week, so it made my games easier to climb. But still, wasnt me improving XD. Also i cant stop thinking that was the matchmaking deciding me to go up, especialy when a week ago i always got 3-4 necros against, then they diminuished to 1-2 this week, allowing my revenant to be able to play and outrotate them. Also, necros i got in these last 20 games didnt watch my scepter autoattack spam video, so it was easier to deal with them. I cant say they were less skilled (cuz i dont feel there is ANY skill in necro gameplay to start of), but maybe good players are finaly climbing up and this will allow players to climb up to diamond more easily?

I doubt it

mmm… also i can add i had a 5 days break cuz of necro rage before getting the 20+ win streak. So i was even less “trained” the games i won. Is the matchmaking trying to compensate my “rage” by giving me wins good team comp, in the hope i wont definetely leave the game and stop using that gem shop?? XD XD

Shala.8352:

godsie.2864:

Shala.8352:

Win loss win loss win loss for a week. Then i started a win streak of 20+ and get out of ruby hell. But i can tell that, differently from what the dev said, it wasnt my skill “improving” that decided that was the time i got out of the ruby hell. I played exactly how i played the matches before. Maybe good players managed to get out of ruby this week, so it made my games easier to climb. But still, wasnt me improving XD. Also i cant stop thinking that was the matchmaking deciding me to go up, especialy when a week ago i always got 3-4 necros against, then they diminuished to 1-2 this week, allowing my revenant to be able to play and outrotate them. Also, necros i got in these last 20 games didnt watch my scepter autoattack spam video, so it was easier to deal with them. I cant say they were less skilled (cuz i dont feel there is ANY skill in necro gameplay to start of), but maybe good players are finaly climbing up and this will allow players to climb up to diamond more easily?

I doubt it

mmm… also i can add i had a 5 days break cuz of necro rage before getting the 20+ win streak. So i was even less “trained” the games i won. Is the matchmaking trying to compensate my “rage” by giving me wins good team comp, in the hope i wont definetely leave the game and stop using that gem shop?? XD XD

A part of matchmaking is based on how frequently we play. Your 5 day’s off allowed your MMR to reset a bit.

DeWolfe.2174:

Shala.8352:

godsie.2864:

Shala.8352:

Win loss win loss win loss for a week. Then i started a win streak of 20+ and get out of ruby hell. But i can tell that, differently from what the dev said, it wasnt my skill “improving” that decided that was the time i got out of the ruby hell. I played exactly how i played the matches before. Maybe good players managed to get out of ruby this week, so it made my games easier to climb. But still, wasnt me improving XD. Also i cant stop thinking that was the matchmaking deciding me to go up, especialy when a week ago i always got 3-4 necros against, then they diminuished to 1-2 this week, allowing my revenant to be able to play and outrotate them. Also, necros i got in these last 20 games didnt watch my scepter autoattack spam video, so it was easier to deal with them. I cant say they were less skilled (cuz i dont feel there is ANY skill in necro gameplay to start of), but maybe good players are finaly climbing up and this will allow players to climb up to diamond more easily?

I doubt it

mmm… also i can add i had a 5 days break cuz of necro rage before getting the 20+ win streak. So i was even less “trained” the games i won. Is the matchmaking trying to compensate my “rage” by giving me wins good team comp, in the hope i wont definetely leave the game and stop using that gem shop?? XD XD

A part of matchmaking is based on how frequently we play. Your 5 day’s off allowed your MMR to reset a bit.

okay… isnt this dumb?

KhaidaG.5098:

Galandil.9641:

It’s just not true due to how MMR+MM work.

Of course it’s true. If we look at it from the opposing point of view then what? Some accounts are eternally doomed to never be able to climb just because they have lost some games in the past?

Yes. That’s exactly what it is.

KhaidaG.5098:

Individual skill has no meaning anymore because this account is forever going to get matched with bad teammates vs unbeatable opponents?

Partially yes. If you go low enough on mmr, you will start getting matched with players that will be greater enemies to you than your opponents. And no matter how good you are, you can’t win a game alone.

KhaidaG.5098:

If you’re good enough, given enough time you carry your way out of whatever division you’re in.

To be able to carry you will have to get teammates that will not sabotage you at every possibility. Or hope your enemies will be as bad (which is unlikely, the system seems to dislike having balanced matches).

KhaidaG.5098:

Of course it’s still possible to reach Diamond/Legend if you’re bad, I talked about some of the issues in my original post.

Yes. And what you don’t seem to be understand is that the matchmaking system is balanced in this regard. The same mechanic that lets one person coast to division well over their skill level, will hold another player back.

KhaidaG.5098:

Algorithms don’t take your personal skill progress into account. Eventually, once you get better and get some wins, your MMR will start rising.

If system keeps putting you in matches at way below 50% estimated win chance, that “eventually” may well be “never”.

KhaidaG.5098:

Add to it the fact that (as I’ve mentioned numerous time) the people you’ve been losing against move on to higher divisions and get replaced by new ones that are most likely going to be easier for you to beat.

Sure, but if you get placed in the bottom 10%, you will run out of time before enough of those above you advance to increase your win chances significantly. Because the real problem will be your teammates. That will be constantly losing. Alongside you.

TPMN.1483:

And here in lies the problem – personal MMR (profession based) does not = team based MMR.

4 thiefs + 1 War (Above average MMR on individual classes/account)
VS
1 Necro, Ele, Engineer, Thief, War (Average MMR)

The Above average MMR team lost – 500v100.
The problem is the above average MMR team couldnt reroll alts – it didnt go well as a team comp. The above average MMR team loses MMR.

uh, why didn’t they reroll? You get the worst team comp ever and no one changes profession? They deserved to lose.

Hello,
I feel like I want to contribute to this topic too as I feel something is not working properly. Many say to me is MMR fault but i really don’t know, i just want to report my expirience and say why i think pvp isn’t funny anymore.
In the previous season i use to have a win rate around 70-75%. But christmas festivities were there and in Italy we have tradition to spend a lot of time with families during those festivities and i hadn’t much time to play so i stop 1 tier to diamond. I didn’t feel like losing 1 match was "bad " at all in the first season and i felt like playing with guildies was always ok. So i never said no to guildies or whoever wanted to join me in pvp. This season isn’t like that anymore.
I started this season thinking that was the same so i had some lost matches with a guild group at the very beginning and than tried to match solo. When I match solo I had ppl running around whithout saying a word in the team chat without knowing what to do at all. I mean that can happen i don’t say that shouldn’t happen at all. But you can’t expect a group with 2 ppl that play like that to win a match if the opposite team is mde by player that know exactly what to do. This is fine if it happens 1 or 2 times, but become unpleasent if that happens costantly. That made pvp not fun anymore for me. That said, I’m now in ruby as well and do u wanna know how did i manage to get easly there? I joined my boyfriend who hates pvp and never wanna play it(because he uses to lose every 1vs1) who is amber and i started to win 500-20 all the matches. That wasn’t funny either but let me realize how much it isn’t true that only good players easly go in diamond. I think a lot of good player are stuck because of what ppl call mmr. I did join guildie aswell who had a 29 win streak from amber to sapphire and won easly with him as well. The main problem for me now is that i cannot say yes so easy as i did in the preavios season to all that guildie ask me to join pvp. That’s something wrong for me.

Main vs Alt

Primary difference: caliber of teammates grouped with due to MMR of the account

I only just started the ranked climb on my alt this passed Saturday morning. Made sure I had it tracked with www.gw2pvp.de

Red = loss (includes forfeits)
Green = win (includes byes)
Ranked games are highlighted in yellow

Inb4 ques are filled with ambers…. Can’t wait. But yeah, most of the times MMR doesn’t reflect the skill itself, as i m on leg on 2 accs and working towards 3rd now which is atm diamond t6 so Anet screwed up rather hard.

What I don’t get is if all these players are stuck in Ruby hell or whatever they call it and have only lost due to bad teammates why aren’t they being matched on the same teams? Eventually all you “good” Ruby players who are stuck will get out due to being on the same team as the other “good” Ruby players.

Hell even two good players on the same team should be able to carry against average opponents (aka the majority of players in Ruby).

I understand match making can be frustrating, but at a certain point the common denominator in every game is you. If you’re constantly losing probably the best place to start evaluation is with yourself.

What they call by stuck it doesn’t necessary means they can’t win games at all, sure they ll end up by having good team mates, but after that they have to again get them and again and again, up until the point they are out, but with hilarious part, of that so called “hell” it’s rather often when u defeat someone who was even worse then your team, they somehow turns out to be higher MMR team in that match up and you end up on their side. So basically you won and got someone even worse xD

Raek.8504:

snip

So that’s one example of what could happen. Yet people complain about 20+ game loss streaks or long periods of losses at least. That simply won’t happen to good players I’m sorry.

I’m not saying there are no good players who got unlucky. But I’m willing to bet the majority of people who are having issues in ruby are there for a reason. You don’t see any players on esl teams or even random ag teams complaining about being stuck and that’s telling.

It amazes me how many people in this thread have never once played another competitive game. DOTA2, LoL, CSGO, etc. All of these games use MMR and put you in a team where the only consideration is the W/L at the end, yet good players seem to always do well in all these games. DO YOU THINK ITS ALL LUCK?

If you blame every loss on teammates and the system for why you can’t advance then you need to grow up. Full stop.
After a bunch of games played there is only ONE constant, YOU!. It isnt that hard to understand really. All of the people saying that you cannot carry a team by yourself are missing the big picture, over a long string of games, if you are actually better than teammates/opponents on average then you will slowly advance upward. If you are not, then you won’t.
The MMR+MM system literally cannot put you on “bad teams” against “good teams” every game. Remember there is another team in the game and they can try and say the same exact thing about your team, making both points totally moot.

“The ship of failure floats on a sea of excuses.”

displacedTitan.6897:

It amazes me how many people in this thread have never once played another competitive game. DOTA2, LoL, CSGO, etc. All of these games use MMR and put you in a team where the only consideration is the W/L at the end, yet good players seem to always do well in all these games. DO YOU THINK ITS ALL LUCK?

If you blame every loss on teammates and the system for why you can’t advance then you need to grow up. Full stop.
After a bunch of games played there is only ONE constant, YOU!. It isnt that hard to understand really. All of the people saying that you cannot carry a team by yourself are missing the big picture, over a long string of games, if you are actually better than teammates/opponents on average then you will slowly advance upward. If you are not, then you won’t.
The MMR+MM system literally cannot put you on “bad teams” against “good teams” every game. Remember there is another team in the game and they can try and say the same exact thing about your team, making both points totally moot.

“The ship of failure floats on a sea of excuses.”

Rofl, so you still don’t get it ? In GW system you can’t fall, u can fall in all other games LOL DOTA CS, you can’t fall with in divisions in GW2, and system matches players not like in dota/lol/cs:go. In DOTA LOL CS go is purely MMR based ladder, so every 1000 MMR team with 1000 MMR players will be facing the same team, the matches of 1000 MMR vs 1700 MMR team should not happen and don’t happen at all in those games.

We had no:
1. MMR reset.
2. MMR through time artificially increased/decreased due to 50/50 % system. When random Joe could take a game from GLOBAL elite (CS:GO parallel) and increase his MMR significantly lol.
3. IN CS/DOTA/LOL GLOBAL elites doesn’t start with Silvers and everyone else when season starts.
4. In all other games pvp player pool is not as small as in GW 2.

It’s like you people don’t even understand the subject you arguing about because it’s just on paper fail system. Sure Pros are on their place yeah, they always had highest MMR possible in that crap game, as well as they are so good, so can carry them self with new acc, i can do it too, so what ? This system doesn’t work, just because MMR is no longer the representation of players skill. Lol.

And in the end, i don’t even make excuses, lol, i want quality matches only, to have fun and challenge and this system delivers none only on my alt accounts, i got my wings, i don’t give 2 fingers about legendary. All i want is, to jump into the game and have teammates who is on my level as well as opponents. You trolls can’t even get it, you always think someone whines just because he is not “gud” enough.

displacedTitan.6897:

It amazes me how many people in this thread have never once played another competitive game. DOTA2, LoL, CSGO, etc. All of these games use MMR and put you in a team where the only consideration is the W/L at the end, yet good players seem to always do well in all these games. DO YOU THINK ITS ALL LUCK?

And all these games have a largely grindable ladder (can’t loose pips/tiers etc.)? If not why do you use them to compare knowing the comparison will be flawed?

Btw, not all games are losses nor are all losses put on the back of teammates. Only you view it like that. The problem is you will get enough really bad teammates that it will negate the other matches hence you being stuck for very long period and your rating suffering more than it would have if only ppl able to reach ruby would be in ruby.

Titan it’s extremely hard to swallow your arguement when on one account I get people that feel even so much as considering far is anathema and hardly say a word, not even to call who is taking home. Yet on the other, we can regularly push 1-3-1 or even 1-2-2 successfully and rotations are being called out in chat.

Yes I’m aware I am the constant. However, I don’t have the power to turn coal into a freaking diamond despite how hard I may try. The game “thinks” I suck because I have less than a 50% win rate on my main (think I’m down to about 48% now) while on my alt its over 60%. It’s like night and day difference.

I have no issue stating that I am not a great player. I’m pretty solidly average; however, even average players can shine when given the right tools to work with. I’m not asking to be carried. I’m not asking for legendary rank. I just want some decent freaking games!

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Titan it’s extremely hard to swallow your arguement when on one account I get people that feel even so much as considering far is anathema and hardly say a word, not even to call who is taking home. Yet on the other, we can regularly push 1-3-1 or even 1-2-2 successfully and rotations are being called out in chat.

Yes I’m aware I am the constant. However, I don’t have the power to turn coal into a freaking diamond despite how hard I may try. The game “thinks” I suck because I have less than a 50% win rate on my main (think I’m down to about 48% now) while on my alt its over 60%. It’s like night and day difference.

I have no issue stating that I am not a great player. I’m pretty solidly average; however, even average players can shine when given the right tools to work with. I’m not asking to be carried. I’m not asking for legendary rank. I just want some decent freaking games!

You are the constant but that is not an argument at all in any context unless that constant is in possession of the majority of the power. Otherwise that constant will have to deal and play with what he/she is dealt and hope it will be enough.

In your case, you can see that the outcomes on both accounts are spectacularly different DESPITE you remaining constant. What does it suggest? That you alone were the most problematic element? Not really. Quite the opposite in fact.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Main vs Alt

Primary difference: caliber of teammates grouped with due to MMR of the account

I only just started the ranked climb on my alt this passed Saturday morning. Made sure I had it tracked with www.gw2pvp.de

Red = loss (includes forfeits)
Green = win (includes byes)
Ranked games are highlighted in yellow

This only gets interesting when you get to the same division and tier as your main account is atm, before that? It just shows the system works.

Yasi.9065:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Main vs Alt

Primary difference: caliber of teammates grouped with due to MMR of the account

I only just started the ranked climb on my alt this passed Saturday morning. Made sure I had it tracked with www.gw2pvp.de

Red = loss (includes forfeits)
Green = win (includes byes)
Ranked games are highlighted in yellow

This only gets interesting when you get to the same division and tier as your main account is atm, before that? It just shows the system works.

Well, considering I made more progress on my alt (mid sapphire) in just 2 days (like 10ish hours?) of play, vs 2 weeks-ish of play on my main…its much faster. I wasn’t tracking my account on the pvp tracker until recently, wish I’d known earlier. Right now, my alt is just 12 pips away from where my main sits, which broke into Ruby on the 12th.