Guild Wars 2

Any chance of this being removed?

Don’t think so. I have been asking if not change it then at least add icon for the 6th bonus for years now.

Unless they remove ALL passive abilities on the dozen or so runes (e.g. Rune of the Grove), AND all the passive auto fear/auto taunt/auto stability/auto anything talents on every profession, no.

Cherry picking is not the way to go — either it’s all removed or it all gets to stay.

Removing all is fine with me.

As long as there are way more concerning issues regarding pvp balance, removing something that has little value is the worst possible way to continue balancing the game.

Maybe have a drink of water or take a nap before coming onto these forums to propose changes that are solely fueled by your raging losses in-game. There really isn’t any other reason for you to do this.

I didn’t lose. I’m just sick of people I play with constantly complaining about mace stun – I mean 6 piece rune of nightmares.

Kharr.5746:

Unless they remove ALL passive abilities on the dozen or so runes (e.g. Rune of the Grove), AND all the passive auto fear/auto taunt/auto stability/auto anything talents on every profession, no.

Cherry picking is not the way to go — either it’s all removed or it all gets to stay.

ye well if my House burns down, better make sure everyone lights theyr candles near the curtain.

MadVisions.4529:

Kharr.5746:

Unless they remove ALL passive abilities on the dozen or so runes (e.g. Rune of the Grove), AND all the passive auto fear/auto taunt/auto stability/auto anything talents on every profession, no.

Cherry picking is not the way to go — either it’s all removed or it all gets to stay.

ye well if my House burns down, better make sure everyone lights theyr candles near the curtain.

forgotten to mention, i hope you have a fat curtain!

So with the change to deathly chill…

You attack the necro>your feared., chilled and bleeding…

You can use up a cleanse and hope the bleeding gets removed
Or
use up your stun breaker to get control back. But still bleeding.
Or
Don’t waste a cool down. Eat the bleeding and lose a couple k of health., and have no control of your character.

And the necro did NOTHING.

but you know its a ‘L2P issue’.

Make it something interactive atleast, not just proc when hit.

Fear on heal ? Fear on elite ?

I do’nt know, but something better. curreently its just frustrating.

Nocta.5274:

Make it something interactive atleast, not just proc when hit.

Fear on heal ? Fear on elite ?

I do’nt know, but something better. curreently its just frustrating.

that’s runes of tequatl, and they’d be useless for necro because they have no good elites that play with it

SlimChance.6593:

So with the change to deathly chill…

You attack the necro>your feared., chilled and bleeding…

You can use up a cleanse and hope the bleeding gets removed
Or
use up your stun breaker to get control back. But still bleeding.
Or
Don’t waste a cool down. Eat the bleeding and lose a couple k of health., and have no control of your character.

And the necro did NOTHING.

but you know its a ‘L2P issue’.

Who’s losing to this?

Sarrs.4831:

Nocta.5274:

Make it something interactive atleast, not just proc when hit.

Fear on heal ? Fear on elite ?

I do’nt know, but something better. curreently its just frustrating.

that’s runes of tequatl, and they’d be useless for necro because they have no good elites that play with it

I mean, I guess you have a point but does it matter ? I still think changing the nightmare rune proc to something more involved would be for the best.

I don’t usually mind those on proc things, but having a hard CC on that kind of thing is just a bit too obnoxious.

Just pressed lightning overload on khylo and got rune of nightmare proc feared off the top by a MESMER.

That isn’t ok. Please remove this proc. The player did not do anything and did an amazing play.

It just needs a range limit attached to it. Same for that ridiculous Revenant trait.

How about this, add a power based set with autofear, and everyone, I mean everyone runs autofear.

Maybe then, people would realize how annoying it is.

Ven Zehn.6573:

How about this, add a power based set with autofear, and everyone, I mean everyone runs autofear.

Maybe then, people would realize how annoying it is.

! !! ! ! ! !!!!
YES
reintroduce old vamp runes with mist form but replace #2 instaproc with fear! Vampires are dreadful after all

Anything that punishes people purely for successfully landing a hit should be removed.

Things like Ranger GS’s counter-attack are fine, and things like this should exist. However, things like Rune of the Nightmare should not. Mesmer’s Mirror of Anguish, while relatively unused now, should not exist. Revenant’s Eye for an Eye should not exist. Engineer’s Self-Regulating Defenses, while important thanks to Engi’s low condi removal and overall power creep in the game, should not exist.

It is actually idiotic that they do.

1 seconds duration
60 seconds recharge

is fine and balanced.

easily negated by EITHER stability or resistance

why remove ?

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

1 seconds duration
60 seconds recharge

is fine and balanced.

easily negated by EITHER stability or resistance

why remove ?

Exactly this mentality is why passives gonna be untouched for e v e r.

Any ability that lacks counter-play, no matter how trivial, needs to be changed or removed. Rune of Nightmare has no indicator, no cast-time to interrupt, and no way to remove the effect without minions, which few classes can viably use. I don’t care what passive effect is the first to be removed from the game, I just want one effect removed to set the precedent so that progress can be made.

All successful competitive games work hard to remove aspects that cannot be countered.

Eastcorn.5901:

Anything that punishes people purely for successfully landing a hit should be removed.

Things like Ranger GS’s counter-attack are fine, and things like this should exist. However, things like Rune of the Nightmare should not. Mesmer’s Mirror of Anguish, while relatively unused now, should not exist. Revenant’s Eye for an Eye should not exist. Engineer’s Self-Regulating Defenses, while important thanks to Engi’s low condi removal and overall power creep in the game, should not exist.

It is actually idiotic that they do.

Don’t forget about Hunter’s Determination! You just did the Dragonhunter a favour by giving it stability, aegis and more aegis to pick up whilst also damaging and crippling you. All this because you dared to attempt an interrupt on a Dragonhunter. You terrible person – you deserve to be punished! How about Gale Song – you CCd the Tempest and gave it and its allies free Superspeed and also broke stun for all of them! You’re a real team player for doing that! Then there’s Hard to Catch – thanks for the free dodges and swiftness! I best you wish you’d never bothered (with life in general). Oh and Last Stand! What a great person you are to give out some free stability, swiftness and vigour – you must be a lovely person in real life.

At least with Mirror of Anguish, Reaper’s protection and Protection injection the target is still CC’d (though they are still ridiculous traits that I’d happily see vanish) and Shared Anguish still CCs the pet at least. But other variants also break stun for the person using them and have ridiculous secondary effects that are entirely beneficial for the person CC’d.

Yep. It’s not hard to see why these traits are bad for the game. Now, I’m wondering what the thought process was that allowed them to be implemented into the game.

Eastcorn.5901:

Engineer’s Self-Regulating Defenses, while important thanks to Engi’s low condi removal and overall power creep in the game, should not exist.

It’s there (along with things like the smoke bomb trait) because the design of engy only having one weapon means there is huge pressure on the utilty slots and one of the things that leads to is a difficulty in fitting in stunbreaks, so no it and a fair few other passives in this game could not simply go unless you redesign some of the classes. (granted nightmare rune could definitely go, but many passives could not)

Eastcorn.5901:

It is actually idiotic that they do.

What is actually idiotic is the way some people go overboard on ‘passives’ (cos the “actives” are so highly skilled in this game, LOL) and demonstrate they have no idea about game design, both in the sense of things like the example I give above, but also in the sense they are playng a casual MMO that has to design for a whole variety of players of varying abilities, and that they are not designing for the SC2 or CS playerbases.

…every class has pressure on their utilities to carry stun-breaks. No weapon set in the game has a stun-break. Engie isn’t even under as much pressure from CC with hammer in the field, which has evades, blocks and reflects, alongside Final Salvo Gyros.

And also, we have leagues to separate low-skilled casual players and players who actually want to get good. If you don’t want to play harder, then play with the lower ranked players. There’s no shame in that.

Eastcorn.5901:

…every class has pressure on their utilities to carry stun-breaks. No weapon set in the game has a stun-break. .

Wow, I actually have to explain this… engy has more pressure on their utilites than anyone else, because they only have one weapon, so that means a certain of amount of damage, utility, movement skills, etc, that other classes have over two weapons has to be made up for in the utility slots / toolbelt skills.

You then can’t simply slap a stunbreak on everything because using a stun break comes with an opportunity cost of putting another effect on a cooldown, for example like elixir U, if you get caught and you need your stunbreak then you’ve just put a skill that is your burst on cooldown.

Which is why engy has had passive traits that either break stun, provide a smoke field, reduce damage when stunned, etc, since the start of the game.

Eastcorn.5901:

And also, we have leagues to separate low-skilled casual players and players who actually want to get good. If you don’t want to play harder, then play with the lower ranked players. There’s no shame in that.

LOL the leagues are a joke, and they are also entirely irrelevant to what I wrote…

P.S – GW2 is a relatively low skilled game, for the most part skilled players, don’t play it.

We have kits though, that’s why we only have one weapon. My current build comes with Elixir gun (one stun break), blast gyro (one stun break plus stability with final salvo), and Bulwark gyro (more stability) or Elixir S (a stun break). If you can’t work in enough stun breaks right now, then you must not know your class that well.

Hammer alone gives as much utility as two weapon sets for most other classes.

I mean, if you made this argument pre-HoT, I would agree with you. But using it now is laughable.

Leagues are somewhat relevant. If you’re so bad you need to rely on passives, then stick with the bad players. The rest of us who don’t need crutches can move up. If leagues were permanent, then it would be far more relevant, but that’s another kittenty Anet design, just like passives.

Eastcorn.5901:

We have kits though, that’s why we only have one weapon. My current build comes with Elixir gun (one stun break), blast gyro (one stun break plus stability with final salvo), and Bulwark gyro (more stability) or Elixir S (a stun break). If you can’t work in enough stun breaks right now, then you must not know your class that well.

Hammer alone gives as much utility as two weapon sets for most other classes.

I mean, if you made this argument pre-HoT, I would agree with you. But using it now is laughable.

Plenty of builds only have one stunbreak (most engy builds over the history of this game had one or no stunbreaks), the idea that you should have to include 2 of 5 utilities that have a stunbreak (2 of which never get used because they are uselekittenarely) when on engy you are having to consider condi cleans, mobility, damage, etc far more than any other class in regard to utility slots is laughable, which is why they have the passives.

Eastcorn.5901:

Hammer alone gives as much utility as two weapon sets for most other classes.

Erm no it doesn’t, it does a lot for one weapon, but nowhere near what two weapon sets do, it also suffers from what I mentioned earlier ‘opportunity costs’.

Eastcorn.5901:

…then you must not know your class that well.

From someone that has shown they have no understanding of game mechanics / design that is amusing.

Eastcorn.5901:

If you’re so bad ..

Stop projecting.

P.S – That you think passives are the “crutch” holding back this game from being skilled, in a game where most stuff is autotargetted and what isn’t requires no real aim, where there is virtually no resource management (and what little there is barely requires any thought), and as a game is not particularly mechanically demanding, is hilarious.

So you can’t optimize a build, then. Must be why you need passives to play. So sad.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

1 seconds duration
60 seconds recharge

is fine and balanced.

easily negated by EITHER stability or resistance

why remove ?

If you have to waste skills on someones PASSIVE proc they had to have 0 user interaction to make work, then something is wrong with the game. Especially when it’s CC that can make you run off a node or into a bad spot or even off cliffs.

Remove all passives from the game. Doesn’t matter if everyone uses them or not, passives are bad for a game and they need to be removed completely. No exceptions.

Ario.8964:

Remove all passives from the game. Doesn’t matter if everyone uses them or not, passives are bad for a game and they need to be removed completely. No exceptions.

What? Even the “below x HP” ones too? If any passives need toned down it’s Engineer I hear none other especially when Deathly Chill got the nerf bat.

Low hp procs are passives, they go as well. Thief functions without it and revs are playing without those procs too. They are unnecessary and will be removed as well. It’s not just one class or rune that’d have passives removed, it’d be every class, every rune set, every sigil.

Kharr.5746:

Unless they remove ALL passive abilities on the dozen or so runes (e.g. Rune of the Grove), AND all the passive auto fear/auto taunt/auto stability/auto anything talents on every profession, no.

Cherry picking is not the way to go — either it’s all removed or it all gets to stay.

Well most are stun for stun where nightmare runrs are just stun every 60s. Any trait that works similarly Id be cool with axing

zinkz.7045:

It’s there (along with things like the smoke bomb trait) because the design of engy only having one weapon means there is huge pressure on the utilty slots and one of the things that leads to is a difficulty in fitting in stunbreaks, so no it and a fair few other passives in this game could not simply go unless you redesign some of the classes. (granted nightmare rune could definitely go, but many passives could not)

I would argue that the smoke bomb trait and even protection injection are not as problematic, even though they are passive, since a lot of the engi gameplay is passive anyway, and that it is sort of compensating the weakness to CC chains engi has had since the beginning of the game. If anything, these traits are more balanced than the ridiculous amount of stability scrappers dish out these days. The combination of Protection Injection and Stability is way too much, and Perfectly Balanced probably needs a rework.

These traits have obvious counters: for the smoke bomb trait, you need to think about a way to clear the blind just after a CC (like a weapon swap sigil or something, the way you would get rid of a guardian’s Aegis) before landing your big hits. For Protection Injection, you can either boonstrip or try to CC as little as possible. What is really unacceptable is Self-Regulating Defense (or the passive Endure Pain for that matter): there is absolutely no counter play if you don’t play a very specific type of build: condi burst with a lot of cover conditions. Traits like this one need to be rework first.

Lol, not everyone wants to be a pro. I like passives. I like the randomness of some traits. They should not be removed. What should be done is that there should be a seperate system for just pvp. And even in pvp there should be a difference between ranked and unranked (systematically). Then pros can play without those skills and traits, and others can play relaxed, without destroying other people’s streaks.

Wvw-pvp-pve are three entirely seperate game modes that should not be sharing all the system together. That is why we have power creep, cc fest, condi bombs, evadecannons…

Sorel.4870:

I would argue that the smoke bomb trait and even protection injection are not as problematic, even though they are passive, since a lot of the engi gameplay is passive anyway…

A lot of the gameplay in a game where the game aims for you, where one button press does a million things, which is mechanically undemanding, etc is very passive in nature full-stop.

Sorel.4870:

What is really unacceptable is Self-Regulating Defense (or the passive Endure Pain for that matter): there is absolutely no counter play if you don’t play a very specific type of build: condi burst with a lot of cover conditions. Traits like this one need to be rework first.

Your argument on your perceived lack of counterplay outside condi builds applies to it whether it is the trait or the actual skill and applies to every invurn in the game, it also applies to block if you have no unblockable skill, and on the basis of things lacking meaningful counterplay, then you’d remove stealth, instant teleports (which to add insult to injury can go through LOS and over the z-axis), unblockable skills, etc.

But like I said earlier, the other thing people don’t get, other than pressing a button != skillful play in itself, is that when they design a game that is marketed as a casual MMO they have to provide a variety of builds that cater to people of different skill levels and to all different game modes (try working out how elixir S trait relates to large scale WvW), it seems some people don’t understand that very basic reality, and are under the delusion that the game is purely designed for a small section of players try-harding in PvP or delusional enough to think that a 4 year old game with 2k viewers on its tourney is an “e-sport”, ,and really for those banging on about “skill” why are you even playing GW2 at this point, if you genuinely wanted a game that required skill you would be playing something else.

I disagree.

This game has way too many stuns. One person can stunlock an enemy forever. If stuns gets nerfed across the board, then I would be okay with removing defensive procs.

zinkz.7045:

But like I said earlier, the other thing people don’t get, other than pressing a button != skillful play in itself, is that when they design a game that is marketed as a casual MMO they have to provide a variety of builds that cater to people of different skill levels and to all different game modes (try working out how elixir S trait relates to large scale WvW), it seems some people don’t understand that very basic reality, and are under the delusion that the game is purely designed for a small section of players try-harding in PvP or delusional enough to think that a 4 year old game with 2k viewers on its tourney is an “e-sport”, ,and really for those banging on about “skill” why are you even playing GW2 at this point, if you genuinely wanted a game that required skill you would be playing something else.

Pardon me, but I thought that one of the things that people like about games and sports is the idea of improving, of going from total beginner to mastering advanced techniques. Passive invulns procs (I have no problem with Elixir S in itself, I play it in about half of my engineer builds since 2013, I only have a problem with the passive trait) don’t even require you to push a button to survive sometimes very skillful plays: a good reflect, a nicely timed interrupt, a coordinated burst, etc. I don’t find it fun, and I doubt that a lot engis playing that trait really find it fun, or flavorful. It’s just effective for no effort, that’s what I’m playing it and that’s why it’s played competitively, but in the end we don’t want to try-hard, we don’t want to win: we want to have fun.

alain.1659:

Lol, not everyone wants to be a pro. I like passives. I like the randomness of some traits. They should not be removed.

I totally agree! I like the autobomb dispenser for example. I even like things like Incendiary Powder or even Chill of Death. But passive invulns like Defy Pain or Self-Regulated Defense are not random: they proc when you reach a certain health limit, and basically save you without any effort.

SlimChance.6593:

So with the change to deathly chill…

You attack the necro>your feared., chilled and bleeding…

You can use up a cleanse and hope the bleeding gets removed
Or
use up your stun breaker to get control back. But still bleeding.
Or
Don’t waste a cool down. Eat the bleeding and lose a couple k of health., and have no control of your character.

And the necro did NOTHING.

but you know its a ‘L2P issue’.

Lol you’re trying to cleanse a 1 sec fear or a single stack of bleed? This is exactly why people lose in this “condi meta”. People freak out at the littlest of conditions on heir bar and waste everything they have.

First off, Deathly Chill’s damage is horrible right now. A single bleed is not killing you, nor is that 1 second of fear that might let them get off one mark in that time.

This is the goofiest hyperbolic complaint I’ve ever seen…. “I hit a necro and basically blew up! I had to chose with my single condi removal to either die to eternal bleeding or be Stun locked until I uninstalled the game!”

Eastcorn.5901:

Anything that punishes people purely for successfully landing a hit should be removed.

Things like Ranger GS’s counter-attack are fine, and things like this should exist. However, things like Rune of the Nightmare should not. Mesmer’s Mirror of Anguish, while relatively unused now, should not exist. Revenant’s Eye for an Eye should not exist. Engineer’s Self-Regulating Defenses, while important thanks to Engi’s low condi removal and overall power creep in the game, should not exist.

It is actually idiotic that they do.

First of all I would like a better trait than the stupid drink elixr S of loos my cap and not manage the final take down hit-ness. But its not in the same category as explicitly punishing the attacker for a successful hit. In fact in some cases it can be quite useful to the attacker. Just an aside. I’ve decapped engis cause of this, and as I play a condi engi, watched them die because of it.

By all accounts lets remove everything passiev like this proc. But to single this out is ludicrous its 1 second out of 60. You have to be extremely unlucky for this to be decisive.

ronpierce.2760:

SlimChance.6593:

So with the change to deathly chill…

You attack the necro>your feared., chilled and bleeding…

You can use up a cleanse and hope the bleeding gets removed
Or
use up your stun breaker to get control back. But still bleeding.
Or
Don’t waste a cool down. Eat the bleeding and lose a couple k of health., and have no control of your character.

And the necro did NOTHING.

but you know its a ‘L2P issue’.

Lol you’re trying to cleanse a 1 sec fear or a single stack of bleed? This is exactly why people lose in this “condi meta”. People freak out at the littlest of conditions on heir bar and waste everything they have.

First off, Deathly Chill’s damage is horrible right now. A single bleed is not killing you, nor is that 1 second of fear that might let them get off one mark in that time.

This is the goofiest hyperbolic complaint I’ve ever seen…. “I hit a necro and basically blew up! I had to chose with my single condi removal to either die to eternal bleeding or be Stun locked until I uninstalled the game!”

Lmfao, +1 xD

Also, as a side note unrelated to the above – I personally like passive procs and don’t get the rage about them. Sure, Endure Pain sucks. Sure, Elixir S is annoying. Sure, Nightmare runes can be annoying but everyone has them in one way or another. I’m sorry, but when something like a thief or revenant can teleport to you and insta-burst you from Jupiter without you even knowing they have you targeted and they can ignore LOS, a passive rune proc defending you is hardly OP.

MethaneGas.8357:

ronpierce.2760:

SlimChance.6593:

So with the change to deathly chill…

You attack the necro>your feared., chilled and bleeding…

You can use up a cleanse and hope the bleeding gets removed
Or
use up your stun breaker to get control back. But still bleeding.
Or
Don’t waste a cool down. Eat the bleeding and lose a couple k of health., and have no control of your character.

And the necro did NOTHING.

but you know its a ‘L2P issue’.

Lol you’re trying to cleanse a 1 sec fear or a single stack of bleed? This is exactly why people lose in this “condi meta”. People freak out at the littlest of conditions on heir bar and waste everything they have.

First off, Deathly Chill’s damage is horrible right now. A single bleed is not killing you, nor is that 1 second of fear that might let them get off one mark in that time.

This is the goofiest hyperbolic complaint I’ve ever seen…. “I hit a necro and basically blew up! I had to chose with my single condi removal to either die to eternal bleeding or be Stun locked until I uninstalled the game!”

Lmfao, +1 xD

Also, as a side note unrelated to the above – I personally like passive procs and don’t get the rage about them. Sure, Endure Pain sucks. Sure, Elixir S is annoying. Sure, Nightmare runes can be annoying but everyone has them in one way or another. I’m sorry, but when something like a thief or revenant can teleport to you and insta-burst you from Jupiter without you even knowing they have you targeted and they can ignore LOS, a passive rune proc defending you is hardly OP.

You are not aware of the recent nerfs, but unless the revenant did nothing for 6-7 seconds while in combat, after that teleport he wont be able to “burst” anything after his teleport from jupiter except autoattacks. Also that jupiter is nothing more than 1200 range skill, the same range of your unblockable 15s cd corrupt boon, or your unblockable marks popping on the feets of the opponent from jupiter without even knowing you are targeting him.
You should be happy that revenant has no ranged attacks except this teleport. But your right that teleport on a full melee is totaly unfair, you should be able to kite him all the day instead.

Shala.8352:

You are not aware of the recent nerfs, but unless the revenant did nothing for 6-7 seconds while in combat, after that teleport he wont be able to “burst” anything after his teleport from jupiter except autoattacks. Also that jupiter is nothing more than 1200 range skill, the same range of your unblockable 15s cd corrupt boon, or your unblockable marks popping on the feets of the opponent from jupiter without even knowing you are targeting him.
You should be happy that revenant has no ranged attacks except this teleport. But your right that teleport on a full melee is totaly unfair, you should be able to kite him all the day instead.

Well.. you teleport with phase traversal, then legend swap for the first burst, and that gives you 50 energy which is enough for surge of the mists and anything that follows.

1200 teleport is insane, but mostly because it ignores LOS so you don’t even need to see your target – they could be on a roof somewhere and you press 1 button and appear next to them and there’s no way to react to that when you aren’t even aware they’ll do that. Not QQing, just clarifying.

Necro marks are hardly OP. You have to waste a whole traitline to even make them worthwhile. Without Soul Marks their usefulness drops by a mile.

Revenant has hammer… which is 1200 range and hits like a truck. If you ever go into WvW… ranged, teleporting revenants are running wild while hitting you from Saturn for 10000k. Hammer is usable in sPvP as well but people aren’t using it because of the reflects, I assume (similar reason so DH not being used as much). Otherwise – yes – you’d see 1200 ranged revenants.

MethaneGas.8357:

but people aren’t using it because of the reflects, I assume (similar reason so DH not being used as much). Otherwise – yes – you’d see 1200 ranged revenants.

I’d clarify things here. Hammer is unused couse it loses to thief and staff version of reve under focus.
Projectal hate is not that big of a deal considering only your autohit is a projectile and #2got 4sec CD with that amont of damage.

It’s just really not fun to get CCed into bad positions by someone not even pressing buttons or realizing they’re doing it.

1: Land a hit on a condition warrior
2: Gets interrupted by the rune effect
3: Instant fear, weakness, 2 stacks of bleed and 4 stacks of confusion

Yeeeah…

Rainweaver.7302:

1: Land a hit on a condition warrior
2: Gets interrupted by the rune effect
3: Instant fear, weakness, 2 stacks of bleed and 4 stacks of confusion

Yeeeah…

^^this lol