Guild Wars 2

Zuko.7132:

Hi all. I’m Zuko. I play tempest for Best Team North Africa, which is currently invited to participate in the Challenger Cup to qualify for Pro-League.

So the goal of this new matchmaking is to make the league system more skill-based. So if you have high mmr (the game thinks ur good) you will progress faster and easier. If you have low mmr (game thinks ur bad) you might have incredible difficulty getting out of amber. How it works is you get matched with players on ur team of similar mmr. The opposing team has team mates of a similar mmr on it. However, your teams average mmr and the enemy teams mmr can be vastly different. If you are one of the players in the top 1% then you have a 99% chance to face an enemy team with lower skill than you. Likewise if you are in the bottom 50% you have a 50% chance to fight people much better than you.

The idea is that the good players will progress to higher divisions quicker and leave only the bad to average players in the lower divisions. Then the average players will advance leaving only the bad players. So as the season goes on your matches should start becoming more balanced, and divisions will actually represent skill instead of time spent playing like last season.

Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

As a professional, thank you for speaking out. We need more pros to advocate for the pvp majority since these pvp devs seem to cater to you guys. This system is WORSE than season 1. I never thought that was possible, but somehow these genius pvp teams managed to do it.

Wouldn’t it be more fun if the two teams being matched were at least in the 40-60% win chance rather than the 20%-80% or 0-100% win chance we have now?

There should be some form of limit on the max MMR team vs low MMR team.
I can’t imagine many of the higher ranking MMR players have had much fun rofl stomping the noobs.

Last night I went from amber to 2 tiers from sapphire on a 11 win streak. It’s pretty clear that if you are high MMR, you wont face people that are close matches if they have progressed beyond Amber.

The issue is, high MMR players whom start the season late, such as the more casual ones will cause very lopsided matches. I won 11 games in a row, a signficant majority was complete blowouts. The enemy was so far off in terms of skill, it was as bad as hotjoins.

So what happens is, new PvP players and the lower end PVP bracket will get complete lopsided matches that it wont be fun for them anymore.

Essentially, in order to get fair matches when you’re not a high end PvP player you will have to wait a few weeks for the top players to progress.

All of this would be fixed if they allowed top players keep their progress each season; such as keeping ruby and diamond (reset pip progress) and reset leaderboard; then everyone is happy. No more lopsided matches, and casual PvP players like myself won’t ruin the experience of these players.

For a PvP game to be sucessful, you need to make it fun for the low end PVP tiers too! If people feel they wont be rewarded or unfair matches unless they are the best player in the world, less players will play and overall it harms PvP.

Zuko.7132:

Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population. Also for the unlucky people who actually are bad whether it be from being unable to commit enough time or just lacking skill, there matches will never get better as they are always going to be below average and so will always have more of a chance to face teams better than them, and will always be on a losing streak and thus quit the game.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

this is the problem. people giving up in droves because unbearable loss streak streaks. only reason I am still trying is because I am desperate for the AP. Played 25+ matches today and only won 1.

1) Start Elite players in a higher division. I have absolutely no problem if ESL level players start out in diamond or legendary.
2) Start people that are new to PVP in the bottom division. That way their “average” rating won’t match them with people that are experienced but have around a 50% win rate.
3) Spread the starting point for the other players by either where they finished last season or their MMR.
4) Have a mechanism where people can lose divisions. This will prevent griefing and eliminate people that were “carried” to higher tiers.

Zuko.7132:

Hi all. I’m Zuko. I play tempest for Best Team North Africa, which is currently invited to participate in the Challenger Cup to qualify for Pro-League.

So the goal of this new matchmaking is to make the league system more skill-based. So if you have high mmr (the game thinks ur good) you will progress faster and easier. If you have low mmr (game thinks ur bad) you might have incredible difficulty getting out of amber. How it works is you get matched with players on ur team of similar mmr. The opposing team has team mates of a similar mmr on it. However, your teams average mmr and the enemy teams mmr can be vastly different. If you are one of the players in the top 1% then you have a 99% chance to face an enemy team with lower skill than you. Likewise if you are in the bottom 50% you have a 50% chance to fight people much better than you.

The idea is that the good players will progress to higher divisions quicker and leave only the bad to average players in the lower divisions. Then the average players will advance leaving only the bad players. So as the season goes on your matches should start becoming more balanced, and divisions will actually represent skill instead of time spent playing like last season.

Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population. Also for the unlucky people who actually are bad whether it be from being unable to commit enough time or just lacking skill, there matches will never get better as they are always going to be below average and so will always have more of a chance to face teams better than them, and will always be on a losing streak and thus quit the game.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Finally!!! A pro player who gets it. Anet intention are right, good player should rabk up faster than bad. However,having people win/lose 15 games in row is just WRONG.

I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)

mmr is separate for unranked and ranked
unranked still does balance teams evenly

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary.
I know I will never get a normal legendary because I can’t stand pve.

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Faux Play.6104:

1) Start Elite players in a higher division. I have absolutely no problem if ESL level players start out in diamond or legendary.
2) Start people that are new to PVP in the bottom division. That way their “average” rating won’t match them with people that are experienced but have around a 50% win rate.
3) Spread the starting point for the other players by either where they finished last season or their MMR.

If you like to have elite players start in a higher division, up vote this:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-PvP-Preseason-before-Season

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary

Probably because in PvP you need legendary backpiece as you glide down from the ledges in temple? Also, stat switching in PvP matter on backpiece. Hence, it’s obtainable only in PvP.

What did you eat between your first post and this one? Or did you sell your brains on ebay in between?

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

I see ur point but in my opinion ranked isnt really a true high level competition. If you want actual competition there are tournament such as Academy Gaming and ESL. Ranked is just slightly more difficult unranked. Also throughout the history of ranked before leagues there was no real difference between it and unranked.

Cynz.9437:

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

LIES, this system is WORSE than season 1. Look at the results. Queues are getting longer, league Day 1: instant-30 sec now………..Day 5: 3-4 min

Why is that? PEOPLE ARE QUITTING NEWBIES AND VETERANS ALIKE
You ELITISTS that got CARRIED to your wins by teaming up/class stacking need to wake up and smell the coffee

THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary.
I know I will never get a normal legendary because I can’t stand pvp.

Ridiculous. Anyone can get a legendary weapon.

Kinda odd you made this thread.

JTGuevara.9018:

Cynz.9437:

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

LIES, this system is WORSE than season 1. Look at the results. Queues are getting longer, league Day 1: instant-30 sec now………..Day 5: 3-4 min

Why is that? PEOPLE ARE QUITTING NEWBIES AND VETERANS ALIKE
You ELITISTS that got CARRIED to your wins by teaming up/class stacking need to wake up and smell the coffee

THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED

Dude, I routinely got 20m+ queue with the last season. 3m queue is extremely good for me. The system could be improved (see my sig), but it’s definitely better than Season 1.

velmeister.4187:

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary

Probably because in PvP you need legendary backpiece as you glide down from the ledges in temple? Also, stat switching in PvP matter on backpiece. Hence, it’s obtainable only in PvP.

What did you eat between your first post and this one? Or did you sell your brains on ebay in between?

The actual stat difference is minuscule don’t pretend you need those stats for pve. It’s mainly a cosmetic thing which believe it or not matters in any game mode. I want fair matches where people can actually win that doesnt mean I think the backpack should be handed out to everyone.

Sunshine.5014:

JTGuevara.9018:

Cynz.9437:

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

LIES, this system is WORSE than season 1. Look at the results. Queues are getting longer, league Day 1: instant-30 sec now………..Day 5: 3-4 min

Why is that? PEOPLE ARE QUITTING NEWBIES AND VETERANS ALIKE
You ELITISTS that got CARRIED to your wins by teaming up/class stacking need to wake up and smell the coffee

THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED

Dude, I routinely got 20m+ queue with the last season. 3m queue is extremely good for me. The system could be improved (see my sig), but it’s definitely better than Season 1.

Define “improved”. No putting lipstick on a pig doesn’t count!

I’m just concerned about player population declining due to excessive loss streaks. I still believe that in a competitive game mode there should be some rewards for being better.

Cynz.9437:

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

Implementing what you are asking won’t change a thing since,even then, High Mmr player will still face low mmr player. The problem is not the placement or whatever. It’s the way the system is setup up. It doesn’t take a genius to know that 10 > 5. And as long as this goes up; the 5 might not win a single match all season long. What Anet should have done is mix 10 with 5 and match them against another team with a 10 and 5.

Zuko.7132:

I’m just concerned about player population declining due to excessive loss streaks. I still believe that in a competitive game mode there should be some rewards for being better.

To follow up on it.5 currently there is nothing competitive about the game since the odds favor one camp at the beginning of every game.

Zuko.7132:

I’m just concerned about player population declining due to excessive loss streaks. I still believe that in a competitive game mode there should be some rewards for being better.

Turn up your concern then, queues are getting longer and longer.

jessiestiles.9437:

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary.
I know I will never get a normal legendary because I can’t stand pvp.

Ridiculous. Anyone can get a legendary weapon.

Kinda odd you made this thread.

not anyone can only those who dedicate an insane amount of time to map completion and gathering resources and gold. I can’t do that, my personality wont let me. Anyone with enough practice can get good or at least average at pvp if you really wanna argue it that way. Both ways require work that not everyone willing to do.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Zuko.7132:

jessiestiles.9437:

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary.
I know I will never get a normal legendary because I can’t stand pvp.

Ridiculous. Anyone can get a legendary weapon.

Kinda odd you made this thread.

not anyone can only those who dedicate an insane amount of time to map completion and gathering resources and gold. I can’t do that, my personality wont let me. Anyone with enough practice can get good or at least average at pvp if you really wanna argue it that way. Both ways require work that not everyone willing to do.

If you do not PvE then why do you need a legendary and that too a backpiece? You completely lost me there. I mean how does it benefit you in anyway in PvP?

Did you make this thread to discuss your personality traits under the sham of commiserating with vast majority of playerbase who are sick of playing ranked – afraid even? Dude you lost total credibility to me. Hope your team loses and you don’t qualify.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Cynz.9437:

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

Implementing what you are asking won’t change a thing since,even then, High Mmr player will still face low mmr player. The problem is not the placement or whatever. It’s the way the system is setup up. It doesn’t take a genius to know that 10 > 5. And as long as this goes up; the 5 might not win a single match all season long. What Anet should have done is mix 10 with 5 and match them against another team with a 10 and 5.

Zuko.7132:

I’m just concerned about player population declining due to excessive loss streaks. I still believe that in a competitive game mode there should be some rewards for being better.

To follow up on it.5 currently there is nothing competitive about the game since the odds favor one camp at the beginning of every game.

Actually they won’t since matchmaking takes divisions into account. As sapphire you will never face amber/emerald (unless those emerald is in t5 or premade with someone).

Sunshine.5014:

JTGuevara.9018:

Cynz.9437:

I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisions

Bad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD

I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.

LIES, this system is WORSE than season 1. Look at the results. Queues are getting longer, league Day 1: instant-30 sec now………..Day 5: 3-4 min

Why is that? PEOPLE ARE QUITTING NEWBIES AND VETERANS ALIKE
You ELITISTS that got CARRIED to your wins by teaming up/class stacking need to wake up and smell the coffee

THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED

Dude, I routinely got 20m+ queue with the last season. 3m queue is extremely good for me. The system could be improved (see my sig), but it’s definitely better than Season 1.

Same here, last season queues would go up to 10-15 min, sometimes longer depending on day time. Right now i am having 2-3 min queues – it is amazing.
I also have to say thanks to Anet for actually improving solo vs premades issue. I face premades very rarely now.

I agree with you ron, but the system as it stands isn’t letting all people who put time and effort in to make sapphire. I don’t think everyone should hit legend, but i also don’t think people should be on 20 game loss streaks.

velmeister.4187:

Zuko.7132:

jessiestiles.9437:

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary.
I know I will never get a normal legendary because I can’t stand pvp.

Ridiculous. Anyone can get a legendary weapon.

Kinda odd you made this thread.

not anyone can only those who dedicate an insane amount of time to map completion and gathering resources and gold. I can’t do that, my personality wont let me. Anyone with enough practice can get good or at least average at pvp if you really wanna argue it that way. Both ways require work that not everyone willing to do.

If you do not PvE then why do you need a legendary and that too a backpiece? You completely lost me there. I mean how does it benefit you in anyway in PvP?

Did you make this thread to discuss your personality traits under the sham of commiserating with vast majority of playerbase who are sick of playing ranked – afraid even? Dude you lost total credibility to me. Hope your team loses and you don’t qualify.

Obviously I want the legendary because of the skin which you would have known if you read my earlier post instead of jumping straight to attacking me. I like shiny stuff. It’s that simple.

im under the impression that when you get put against a team grossly outside of your mmr range, the “most likely” outcome of such a match changes everyones mmr very little.

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?

Zuko.7132:

I agree with you ron, but the system as it stands isn’t letting all people who put time and effort in to make sapphire. I don’t think everyone should hit legend, but i also don’t think people should be on 20 game loss streaks.

I agree with him as well but that’s not you do it. Ironically enough, some of us are getting match with casual pvp players but folk thinks that ok. The system is structured to give good player and advantage over bad ones, not because of their skills, but by grouping them together. So where is the competition?

Definitely agree with OP, I think the current system is good, just implemented poorly because players did not start in higher divisions. From my own personal experience, I don’t necessarily find winning 10-15 games in a row fun when the opposing team had 0 chance to win (this is also the reason why when queues were atrocious in legendary last league you could’ve played unranked but those matches are boring because you were stomping out people like now).

I initially laughed in my first 3 games when I was in a SUPER stacked team facing nobodies and smashed through it, it only took me 3 games to see how this system is terrible for new players and average people in general, the damage is done, people likely won’t touch pvp anymore because of this and I am baffled the devs didn’t see it coming.

This system is bad because, I had decent MMR before the season and got to Sapphire quickly. Then got really un lucky a couple of games with bad team mates that I couldn’t carry. Now every game to every other game is a loss. And there is no way I can climb because I keep getting the worst team mates who are totally clueless and bad on my teams now.

I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?

Coelho Nat.4697:

I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?

You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?

No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.

The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).

Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.

Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.

Cynz.9437:

Coelho Nat.4697:

I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?

You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.

But it was what I said: nobody can improve if his team is completely destroyed or the opposite (faceroll the enemy team). One can only practice on even matches.

Zuko.7132:

jessiestiles.9437:

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary.
I know I will never get a normal legendary because I can’t stand pvp.

Ridiculous. Anyone can get a legendary weapon.

Kinda odd you made this thread.

not anyone can only those who dedicate an insane amount of time to map completion and gathering resources and gold. I can’t do that, my personality wont let me. Anyone with enough practice can get good or at least average at pvp if you really wanna argue it that way. Both ways require work that not everyone willing to do.

If you care to read the other threads. People enjoy and are skilled at pvp and are suffering heavy loses. After last season the average players were just as annoyed with the grinding system as the pros. But many of are willing to stick at the stupid system for the backpiece. The argument that the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone gets thrown in our faces. It’s utterly ridiculous as stated above.

Coelho Nat.4697:

Cynz.9437:

Coelho Nat.4697:

I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?

You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.

But it was what I said: nobody can improve if his team is completely destroyed or the opposite (faceroll the enemy team). One can only practice on even matches.

Um no, i personally learned more from losing games than winning.

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?

No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.

The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).

Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.

Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.

Stop DELUDING yourself.

THE SYSTEM HAS FAILED.

Too bad the season only last 2 months. So if it takes 2 weeks for the system to work thats 25% of the season wasted with bad games which make a lot of people give up on pvp.

Zuko.7132:

velmeister.4187:

Zuko.7132:

jessiestiles.9437:

Zuko.7132:

probably because the legendary backpiece isn’t for everyone hence the word legendary.
I know I will never get a normal legendary because I can’t stand pvp.

Ridiculous. Anyone can get a legendary weapon.

Kinda odd you made this thread.

not anyone can only those who dedicate an insane amount of time to map completion and gathering resources and gold. I can’t do that, my personality wont let me. Anyone with enough practice can get good or at least average at pvp if you really wanna argue it that way. Both ways require work that not everyone willing to do.

If you do not PvE then why do you need a legendary and that too a backpiece? You completely lost me there. I mean how does it benefit you in anyway in PvP?

Did you make this thread to discuss your personality traits under the sham of commiserating with vast majority of playerbase who are sick of playing ranked – afraid even? Dude you lost total credibility to me. Hope your team loses and you don’t qualify.

Obviously I want the legendary because of the skin which you would have known if you read my earlier post instead of jumping straight to attacking me. I like shiny stuff. It’s that simple.

What does that skin benefit you in PvP? Does it improve your game marginally? No. Does it boost your kitten? Maybe. For a PvE player it gives that person ability to min-max, a direct benefit to PvEr and the team.

Why don’t you simply state that you are looking for that skin and feeling bad that you are seeing how people leaving the ranked system in droves jacking up the queue time making it impossible for people like you to get the skin easily enough.

I do not take pleasure in attacking you. I am attacking your logic as it makes no sense to me. In a PvP match, I want to maximize my real estate by uncluttering my screen by either minimizing the UI, choosing smaller fonts, reducing party screen.

It baffles me why would a pro-PvPer want a ginormous backpiece that partially blocks the view, and has a weird “turkey in fight” animation in combat with particle effects?

Cynz.9437:

Coelho Nat.4697:

Cynz.9437:

Coelho Nat.4697:

I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?

You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.

But it was what I said: nobody can improve if his team is completely destroyed or the opposite (faceroll the enemy team). One can only practice on even matches.

Um no, i personally learned more from losing games than winning.

OK, but take my last match as example. I lost by like 500 × 50. Every single time I tried to neutralize a point, the enemy team jumped on me in a 1×3 fight. Do you think someone learn from this type of fight? I don’t. The contrary is also true if we win too easily.

um… fractals?

Stop join this game when you lose in a row.
Jesus will give new life.

People keep saying anet delivered what people asked for, but people never asked for the system to work like this. People asked for competitive matches and not to be paired with bad players on their team.

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?

No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.

The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).

Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.

Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.

You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.

And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.

Warlord.9074:

People keep saying anet delivered what people asked for, but people never asked for the system to work like this. People asked for competitive matches and not to be paired with bad players on their team.

That happens as divisions flesh out. They could make Season 3 players start with their Season 2 division -2, that’d be one way to handle the situation. But then you have to wonder how to handle rewards and people kitten over people getting a free bump.

The real answer is; Anet can’t win.

Only way they could make this fair is force 5v5 premades, but people don’t want that either.

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

ronpierce.2760:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Firebird Gomer.9563:

ronpierce.2760:

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.

Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???

Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.

And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.

Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?

No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.

The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).

Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.

Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.

You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.

And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.

Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.