“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
(edited by Warlord.9074)
S2 From a High-Level Player's View
The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.
The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.
Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???
Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.
And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.
Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?
No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.
The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).
Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.
Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.
You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.
And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.
Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.
I wonder what you’re gonna do once most soloq players quit the game and you’ll have insanely long queue times. Getting a team should not be a solution to a poorly implemented system.
The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.
The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.
Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???
Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.
And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.
Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?
No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.
The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).
Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.
Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.
You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.
And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.
Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.
I wonder what you’re gonna do once most soloq players quit the game and you’ll have insanely long queue times. Getting a team should not be a solution to a poorly implemented system.
Getting a team should not be the answer to how to get better and go further in “Rated” pvp… Come on now… Why do you people even want competition at all… Just put quarters in a machine and get something from a slot machine.
I do sympathize with the few who unfortunately got tanked rating, but I’m betting that’s less than people think. I think more so, this just showed where people really were as far as MMR goes, now that no one is being teamed with them to carry their slack, in more cases than not.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
I do agree with much of what was said.
How do Anet expect new/casual pvp players get interested in arenas if they lose like 20 matches in a row? Do they think people still be playing after 1 entire week losing?
Some players just reply: get better. How someone can stand a chance of improving/practicing in a total uneven match? It is bad for the pvp population in general.
My last matches I lose or I won by a very large difference. Where is the fun on that?You won’t learn much by facerolling other teams. Actually hard games/lost games teach more than wins, imo.
But it was what I said: nobody can improve if his team is completely destroyed or the opposite (faceroll the enemy team). One can only practice on even matches.
Um no, i personally learned more from losing games than winning.
OK, but take my last match as example. I lost by like 500 × 50. Every single time I tried to neutralize a point, the enemy team jumped on me in a 1×3 fight. Do you think someone learn from this type of fight? I don’t. The contrary is also true if we win too easily.
Yeah, you actually do. Take a guess what happens when you fight in tourneys? Idk what class you play but as thief it is common all 5 ppl just focus you non stop and teammates can’t always help you.
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
This is not true. You need to win several matches in a row to move up tiers in emerald and sapphire. If you are in the bottom half of match making in your division you aren’t going to be winning 3-4 matches in a row because you will constantly be facing teams with better players. The more you lose the more your rank goes down. So if you start a losing streak you are essentially done for the season. No matter what happens you will have to get win streaks with people that are in the bottom of your division.
This is more of the caste system for match making. It is designed to ensure people can’t work their way out of where they have been binned by MMR. If I gave the best player in the game the worst MMR they would struggle getting ranks. If I gave a bad player the best MMR, they would likely get carried across several divisions before their teams couldn’t carry them anymore.
Why is that? Because it is a lot easier for 4 relatively good people to carry 1 relatively bad player than it is for 1 relatively good person to carry 4 relatively bad players.
….But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.
I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.
I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.
To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)
The only reason I’m even playing ranked is because I want the back items. When there was ranked and Unranked, I played Unranked as I found the players there more polite and less egotistical. Where as my experience with ranked is people are quick to blame other for a loss, when there was zero communication.
I am well aware there are better players out there than me. There always will be. Even if I was the beat in the world, I wouldn’t be forever.
The OP is QFT. When I had a 15 game losing streak I did get very disheartened, especially as I had such a great start of 7 wins in a row before I made the mistake of going to bed and not playing till late the next day.i went down hill fast, and the matches I lost where really one sided. Better players on top of better team composition. After being on a lose 3 win 2 merry go round for 3 day I finally moved up to T2 emerald, only to end up on the same merry go round. Now I’m starting to think am I wasting my time. I’m more than sure I’m not.
So if I’m thinking about just jacking in the season already, how many others are, or already have. If people are not playing the league, then that’s going to slow down the “pro’s” from moving up as quickly. Thus making the problem worse, making more people unhappy with PvP and less likely to play. This then harms PvP as a game mode. Currently PvP for people unless they are top end players is a very unhappy place. I’ve had the total of 3 games I’ve really enjoyed and where really close win’s and one that I lost, by a fair bit, but it was still a good match. I even complimented the opposing teams thief as I felt he was amazing. But if as a player you don’t or stop making head way, what do you do? You stop playing and you go do something else.. After what happened to WvW I’ve not gone back, and do not intend to. PvP is now getting like this too.
The current match making is making me hate a game mode I really enjoy. I can say hand on heart I enjoyed last season way more and I didn’t get to play all that much because of real life. But I still got higher than I am now in the same space of time.
People seem to be forgetting this is a game and meant to be fun. All it is at the moment is a test of how much you like GW2 and how much.disappointment you can take before you walk.
i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|
Getting a team should not be the answer to how to get better and go further in “Rated” pvp… Come on now… Why do you people even want competition at all… Just put quarters in a machine and get something from a slot machine.
I do sympathize with the few who unfortunately got tanked rating, but I’m betting that’s less than people think. I think more so, this just showed where people really were as far as MMR goes, now that no one is being teamed with them to carry their slack, in more cases than not.
I dont think it’s less honesltly when I look around in the lobby most the players I see are either amber or emerald.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population. Also for the unlucky people who actually are bad whether it be from being unable to commit enough time or just lacking skill, there matches will never get better as they are always going to be below average and so will always have more of a chance to face teams better than them, and will always be on a losing streak and thus quit the game.
Feel free to share your thoughts.
this is the problem. people giving up in droves because unbearable loss streak streaks. only reason I am still trying is because I am desperate for the AP. Played 25+ matches today and only won 1.
I’m loling evilly when I read this. Next season needs people to start at different tiers for sure though.
it’s a good idea to make tiers mean something. We just need to avoid punishing players for being bad, without having them drag down veteran players in some 50/50 scenario
Phaatonn, London UK
Top end player means playing cancer builds with stacked overpowered elites and using cheese.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
This is not true. You need to win several matches in a row to move up tiers in emerald and sapphire. If you are in the bottom half of match making in your division you aren’t going to be winning 3-4 matches in a row because you will constantly be facing teams with better players. The more you lose the more your rank goes down. *So if you start a losing streak you are essentially done for the season. * No matter what happens you will have to get win streaks with people that are in the bottom of your division.
This is more of the caste system for match making. It is designed to ensure people can’t work their way out of where they have been binned by MMR. If I gave the best player in the game the worst MMR they would struggle getting ranks. If I gave a bad player the best MMR, they would likely get carried across several divisions before their teams couldn’t carry them anymore.
Why is that? Because it is a lot easier for 4 relatively good people to carry 1 relatively bad player than it is for 1 relatively good person to carry 4 relatively bad players.
….But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.
I lost like 7 matches in a row in sapphire. Eventually i won some. It is NOT that bad.
If you were right, i would never win any games anymore.
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
I’m loling evilly when I read this. Next season needs people to start at different tiers for sure though.
it’s a good idea to make tiers mean something. We just need to avoid punishing players for being bad, without having them drag down veteran players in some 50/50 scenario
I know right why start bad players off with average MMR. When last season forced most of the decent players into 50/50 or not much better 60/50 win lose ratios.
“Just press 2 to win all the dps was us cuz we’re a
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
warrior and we’re the best class” Eugene
Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population. Also for the unlucky people who actually are bad whether it be from being unable to commit enough time or just lacking skill, there matches will never get better as they are always going to be below average and so will always have more of a chance to face teams better than them, and will always be on a losing streak and thus quit the game.
Feel free to share your thoughts.
Well said, the above is very true and a salient point for anet to acknowledge and deal with. Good luck in the Challenger Cup.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
I’m loling evilly when I read this. Next season needs people to start at different tiers for sure though.
it’s a good idea to make tiers mean something. We just need to avoid punishing players for being bad, without having them drag down veteran players in some 50/50 scenario
I know right why start bad players off with average MMR. When last season forced most of the decent players into 50/50 or not much better 60/50 win lose ratios.
Because ESports. And they want P4F players to play too, so the maybe buy HoT.
i5 4690K @ 3.5Mhz|8GB HyperX Savage 1600mHz|MSI H81M-E34|MSI GTX 960 Gaming 2GB|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|
|Seasonic S12G 650W|Win10 Pro X64| Corsair Spec 03 Case|
I agree with the op, well put.
The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.
The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.
Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???
Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.
And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.
Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?
No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.
The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).
Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.
Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.
You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.
And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.
Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.
I wonder what you’re gonna do once most soloq players quit the game and you’ll have insanely long queue times. Getting a team should not be a solution to a poorly implemented system.
Getting a team should not be the answer to how to get better and go further in “Rated” pvp… Come on now… Why do you people even want competition at all… Just put quarters in a machine and get something from a slot machine.
I do sympathize with the few who unfortunately got tanked rating, but I’m betting that’s less than people think. I think more so, this just showed where people really were as far as MMR goes, now that no one is being teamed with them to carry their slack, in more cases than not.
No, getting a team shouldn’t be an answer to a system where solo players get punished, simple as that.
so – why no resetting mmr complety by start of Season for everyone? at least lets us know how we are rated.
played 2 k games ranked…5 classes class champion ( i know thats ist nothing, really nothing about skill) but just a lil xp ( rotation and things like that)
but seeing ppl 4 man svanir or going to cap Close with 3 man makes me rage, even if ya told them b4 not do creatures or asking for splitt up.
luckily i win 2/10… when winning ist like you solo 3 opponets at once.
if i am much worse then i thought im pretty ok with that BUT
i simply dont get why ppl never played pvp can have 20+ winstreak then, ppl without using any build, ppl joined 2 weeks ago.
and why i didnt have one guy in about 20 games today with a simple titel like legendary champion…the highest ranked title i had in my team was ranksacker… ( yeah still know titles arent worth anything, but generally still an indicator of xp)
there could be the rumour that there are “luck accounts” in pvp now too!
besides all i still like ya game hardly, never had any complain since release.
if something went wrong tell us, just say…
so ppl cant stop waste time till then.
cheers
The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.
The point your missing is that for many people Ranked is the only way for people to get a Legendary backpiece. So if Ranked isnt for everyone why “AGAIN” did Anet put it behind the League matches.
Nope the point that is missing is that fair games do not purposely match higher skills players against low skilled one. (Which is our current system). True, ranked is supposed to be competitive but where is the challenge when you constantly match good players against bad ones?? Wouldn’t a mix of good and bad players be more competitve than having good players on one side and bad on the other???
Competition is to weed out the bad and push forward the best, not Face the best against the best and the worst against the worst ending up with a High-Division comprised partly of the top portion of good players and partly of the top portion of bad players. That’s what ends up happening when you try to “even” team MMR. Bad people get carried up and good players end up getting held down. That’s not competition, that’s how Unranked works, and SHOULD work, as that is the “fair” platform. Ranked is not and shout not be the “fair” platform, as far as getting to legendary.
And anyone who puts the time and effort into it should be able to at least hit sapphire, regardless of skill level.
Wait, if competition is to weed out the bad and push the best forward. Then why is the system setting best against bad? So,the best have to be teamed with other best to get segregated from the bad?? Is that what you are saying?
No, the reason this happens NOW is because they’re trying to push higher MMR out of lower Divisions quicker. It sucks now, but given more time as players hit Ruby/Diamond, the lower tiers will actually look more like that, worse players versus worse players, and the best will be all facing eachother in Diamond.
The problem is that everyone starts at the bottom, so it causes a lot of unfair competition, but the only real way to eliminate that is to give higher tier players early-season Boosters (which has been discussed already somewhat).
Right now, yes, it’s bad. But as more and more players fight out of the low tiers, the low tiers become comprised of a lower quality player pool overall and fewer higher tier players.
Now, the other thing is; there is always bottom barrel. Those people will have to realize Ranked just maybe isn’t for them… But yes, ANYONE can get Sapphire with enough time. That time has yet to be spent. I didn’t say anyone could hit sapphire in a day, I said anyone who spends the time should be able to hit Sapphire by the end of the season if they try hard enough. That’s the simple nature of not being able to lose pips early on, and tiers later.
You do realize that not all high MMR players are getting push outer lower tier apace right? The fallacy of your paragraph is that you don’t realize that even at High elo best player will be group together against not so best player. Instead of your skills,the system is segregating people into divisions. Idk how you are enjoying such a system.
And anyone who put the time will get in ruby. Anyways, all I am saying is that there is a better way to do it. Losing 15 or winning 15 games in row is just WRONG dude. It’s doesn’t matter how skilled someone is, you can’t have one sided winning it all and the other losing it all. If it was based on luck alone, I would have no problem but in this case the system is unfairly favoring one side over the other.
Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.
“Get a team that’s even somewhat good” Oh, please. That’s not a solution, in fact thats just a terribly flippant way of handling this. That’s almost as inane as saying “learn to play”.
Zuko, thank you for making this post because it speaks such truth. I have the same thoughts but not being a pro and being on more losing streaks than winning streaks means nobody will listen to me if I say it. I made it through Amber the first day and have now been stuck in t5 Emerald for 2 days and this is now my 3rd. Everytime I get 3 pips I start losing them.
Now, I’m at the point where the game makes me feel bad about myself. At the end of every loss when I look at my win rate drop by a percentage point each day I feel depressed. I’m sure saying that will get me a lot of hate and trashtalk but honestly other people’s lack of empathy and understanding doesn’t bother me. What should be bothering to people and Anet is that something made to make you feel good while you’re doing it has turned into something that makes people feel bad. I shouldn’t feel depressed about a game I love but happy. Everyone should. I even mentioned that in map chat one night and people agreed that they felt like kitten because of leagues. Honestly at this point I’m thinking of just uninstalling like some of my irl friends have done already.
Maybe if all the players that are on the losing end just boycotted Leagues and let the pros and people that have been fortunate enough to be on the winning side thus far have at it until those leave and the pros are just left with hour long queues then maybe Anet will have to look at what is going on.
Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.
The system isn’t designed to be competitive though.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
I’m just concerned about player population declining due to excessive loss streaks. I still believe that in a competitive game mode there should be some rewards for being better.
This really sums it up.
People who PVP want competition. Lopsided games aren’t a challenge. A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.
It isn’t really fair that the high MMR players have to compete with High MMR players ALL the way through every division from Amber up to Legendary.
It also isn’t fair that average MMR players should be getting into this spiral of never-ending losses because of the current season’s mis-matchmaking system.
No-one wants to be teamed with people less skilled than themselves and have their MMR dragged down undeservedly.
MMR has been so skewed for so many players now… some having it inflated and some deflated by incredible win/loss streaks that really an MMR reset is needed. Not to mention the issues that allotting average MMR to completely new players has caused.
I don’t see how Anet can rectify this without resetting MMR.
A system that attempts to set up evenly matched 50/50 games is good. If they’d have kept season 1 matchmaking and allowed players to stay in their divisions at the beginning of season 2 – things would be a LOT better than they are now. The levelling rewards could be given for wins – say every 15 wins players get one set of levelling rewards that they have missed by starting in a higher division. I also think in a system like this you should be able to lose pips and tiers and go down divisions across the whole league. There would also need to be MMR decay, so players can’t just sit in a division relatively inactive forever.
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
FOR THE GREEEEEEEEEEEEN
Losing 15 times in a row would be “wrong” if the system was built to be fair (Unranked). Losing 15 times in a row means nothing in a system designed to be competitive. Get a team that’s even somewhat good, and you should not have that issue.
The system isn’t designed to be competitive though.
It’s designed to be competitive, it’s not designed for 100% fair competition between each match, but that’s not how a division based competition can be designed. MMR match making like Unranked uses is an unfair way to group people because that supports people either being carried or weighed down by their own team mates. People should be paired it equally skilled players on their team. In no way should it be mandatory that skill levels between the teams competing be the same. Better teams work out of a division to higher divisions. Lower tier players end up in lower tiers longer. That’s just how it works.
The larger issue, as I said before, which should probably Elbe addressed in S3, is what do you do with previous Hogh Division players? Do you repeat the problem by putting them in Amber, or do you allow previous-rank-based boosters so that higher tier players start out above Ambers and Emeralds, expediting the higher tier players to face other higher tier players and leaving note of the lower tier players to play among at themselves and duke it out.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
“A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.”
Except it didn’t. Instead it forced you into losing matches if you won too many games. It was absolute waste time as you had to sit for 10 min queue and then another 10 in lost match. And on opposite, if you were below 50% win rate you would get stupidly faceroll matches which weren’t fun either. Actual 50/50 matches were rare.
As i said before, i think current system is better it just needs better placement across divisions.
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
For the last time, phony heroes of sPvP, this system is bullkitten as it is applied across all the divisions without any restriction of entry to league.
“If there is anyone here whom I have not offended, I am sorry.”
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
“A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.”
Except it didn’t. Instead it forced you into losing matches if you won too many games. It was absolute waste time as you had to sit for 10 min queue and then another 10 in lost match. And on opposite, if you were below 50% win rate you would get stupidly faceroll matches which weren’t fun either. Actual 50/50 matches were rare.
As i said before, i think current system is better it just needs better placement across divisions.
I really think that you mis-understand how a 50/50 targetted matchmaker works.
It isn’t counting how many games you win and then trying to make you lose some if you win too many. What it does is ALWAYS try to give you an opponent that it calculates you have a 50% chance of beating. If you’ve won several games in a row then your MMR will increase and it will therefor calculate that you have a 50% chance of beating a team that also has a higher MMR so you face a harder team. At no point is it trying to make you lose.
If it cannot match you against a team that it calculates a 50% chance for then it tries to get as close as possible – this is what lengthens queue times. Eventually it will take the best it can find – HOWEVER if that team you are matched against has higher MMR than you then you will be rewarded a greater increase in MMR for winning and lose a lesser amount of MMR for being defeated by them. The converse is true for being matched against a team of lower MMR.
It doesn’t force you into losing matches, and it doesn’t force you into winning matches. It adjusts your MMR and then attempts to set up an evenly matched 50/50 game out of the available roster.
It’s fair my friend… I think you’re drunk on the ease of your season 2 success and don’t want to let it go.
50/50 matchmaking is OK, it is other elements of Anet’s PVP league setup and rewards that are screwing things up. Like for example, where players start in the league at the beginning of the season and the MMR that is allocated to new players and a lack of adequate gating to prevent people playing ranked who likely aren’t up to the base standard required etc.
(edited by Dirtyrascal.1023)
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Hope you’re happy with your population of 100 people playing your elite mode then.
Jade Quarry [SoX]
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
Miranda Zero – Ele / Twitch Zero – Mes / Chargrin Soulboom – Engi
Aliera Zero – Guardian / Reaver Zero – Necro
@Dirtyrascal.1023
My statement comes from almost 3 years of playing this game. Even before leagues the system was there. It is such an illusion if you actually think that matchmaking puts you in 50/50 matches because they were anything but 50/50. I mean i understand that you face better teams when you win more but shouldn’t your teammates also be better? Then how do you explain that i was getting guards stomping mesmer clones, zerging animal, getting point capped literary behind their back etc. while enemy could 1v3 my team with ease?
Certainly i couldn’t prove it before leagues but thanks to lovely 3 pips per win i can now. I won some matches i wasn’t supposed to win from begin with and we got 3 pips for it. And i had such matches few times in a row after having win streak. I think i can even dig out some screenshots of having 10 wins and followed by 10 loses in a row.
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Dude are you even reading anything. No-one is complaining about losing fair games. The problem is decent players being rostered with players who don’t know what they’re doing and then deliberately ‘matched’ by the system to play against a team that the system has rostered only higher MMR players onto so that the inevitable outcome boosts the higher MMR players onward. That’s great ‘n’ all… but it is also boosting the lower MMR players downwards. That’s not so cool.
Hopefully this helps you out from under your rock.
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Not having read through all those posts; why is MMR not solely based on personal performance, not taking losses/wins into account or at a smaller degree? I guess it would be really difficult (if even possible) to get such a system working properly, but it would be so much better.
Not having read through all those posts; why is MMR not solely based on personal performance, not taking losses/wins into account or at a smaller degree? I guess it would be really difficult (if even possible) to get such a system working properly, but it would be so much better.
Because Wins/Loses generally have more to do with your skill than the match point system.
High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Noone said that they should reach easy legendary. But long loosing streaks in the “tutorial divisions” should not happen unless you deliberately try to throw games.
1st person worldwide to reach 35,000 achievement points.
@Dirtyrascal.1023
My statement comes from almost 3 years of playing this game. Even before leagues the system was there. It is such an illusion if you actually think that matchmaking puts you in 50/50 matches because they were anything but 50/50. I mean i understand that you face better teams when you win more but shouldn’t your teammates also be better? Then how do you explain that i was getting guards stomping mesmer clones, zerging animal, getting point capped literary behind their back etc. while enemy could 1v3 my team with ease?Certainly i couldn’t prove it before leagues but thanks to lovely 3 pips per win i can now. I won some matches i wasn’t supposed to win from begin with and we got 3 pips for it. And i had such matches few times in a row after having win streak. I think i can even dig out some screenshots of having 10 wins and followed by 10 loses in a row.
The problems you describe aren’t inherent in a system that tries to create a 50/50 match-up for every game. Simply by definition you must be able to see that is true.
The problems you describe arise for other reasons, predominantly suitable player availability. The problem you describe is a population issue. The system cannot give you what it doesn’t have. The INTENTIONS of the season 1 system, i.e. 50/50 match-ups is solid. Anet’s implementation of it’s League and reward system, not so much.
Not having read through all those posts; why is MMR not solely based on personal performance, not taking losses/wins into account or at a smaller degree? I guess it would be really difficult (if even possible) to get such a system working properly, but it would be so much better.
Because Wins/Loses generally have more to do with your skill than the match point system.
Eh, I never said it’s supposed to take the match point system into account, everyone knows that one’s bullkitten.
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Noone said that they should reach easy legendary. But long loosing streaks in the “tutorial divisions” should not happen unless you deliberately try to throw games.
If you only knew how many players are there camping bronze league (amber) in LoL all season xD (because there you can actually lose tiers).
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
“A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.”
Except it didn’t. Instead it forced you into losing matches if you won too many games. It was absolute waste time as you had to sit for 10 min queue and then another 10 in lost match. And on opposite, if you were below 50% win rate you would get stupidly faceroll matches which weren’t fun either. Actual 50/50 matches were rare.
As i said before, i think current system is better it just needs better placement across divisions.
Funny, cause you d think a good player would be able to maintain his winstreak. Oh silly me, so the challenging system was more lenient than the SNAP system?
You think matching HIGH MMR PLAYER (7000 MMR) against Low MMR players (3000 MMR) is ok and competitive?? Really??
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Noone said that they should reach easy legendary. But long loosing streaks in the “tutorial divisions” should not happen unless you deliberately try to throw games.
If you only knew how many players are there camping bronze league (amber) in LoL all season xD (because there you can actually lose tiers).
But at least they don’t lose or win 20 games in row, or get through the whole season (from bronze to challenger) in a week.
(edited by Fivedawgs.4267)
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Actually can we also just debunk this oft said rubbish:
"The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”."
If you Solo Queue you are going to be relying on your team. If you are playing in a system that has calculated you have a 50/50 chance of winning with your current team that is REGARDLESS of the MMR distribution across your team. Noone is carrying anyone, Noone is holding anyone back. You are being matched and rewarded around a 50% chance of winning target.
People really need to stop bandying around this whole Carrying Myth from season 1.
You weren’t carrying a team against difficult odds in a system that was manipulating odds of 50/50.
“A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.”
Except it didn’t. Instead it forced you into losing matches if you won too many games. It was absolute waste time as you had to sit for 10 min queue and then another 10 in lost match. And on opposite, if you were below 50% win rate you would get stupidly faceroll matches which weren’t fun either. Actual 50/50 matches were rare.
As i said before, i think current system is better it just needs better placement across divisions.
Funny, cause you d think a good player would be able to maintain his winstreak. Oh silly me, so the challenging system was more lenient than the SNAP system?
You think matching HIGH MMR PLAYER (7000 MMR) against Low MMR players (3000 MMR) is ok and competitive?? Really??
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Noone said that they should reach easy legendary. But long loosing streaks in the “tutorial divisions” should not happen unless you deliberately try to throw games.
If you only knew how many players are there camping bronze league (amber) in LoL all season xD (because there you can actually lose tiers).
But at least they don’t lose or win 20 games in row, or get through the whole season (from bronze to challenger) in a week.
Um, yes they do. Also, you won’t get to diamond/legend with 20 games. Besides leagues in LoL have more tiers within each leagues and tiers are 100 pts based and not just 5 pips.
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
Not having read through all those posts; why is MMR not solely based on personal performance, not taking losses/wins into account or at a smaller degree? I guess it would be really difficult (if even possible) to get such a system working properly, but it would be so much better.
I don’t know either. Aparently they base your skill level on your division level from last season as a solution to people complaining that higher skill level should advance quicker and that in season 1 division level was not at all indicative of skill. That is kind of odd. What one size fits all factor could you base skill on?
@Dirtyrascal.1023:
- old system wasn’t looking for 50/50 matches most of the time
- old system promoted farming, there was literary no difference wether you are good or bad player, you just had to farm matches; it was literary old farmboards with sprinkles
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
“A system that tries to manipulate a 50/50 win/loss ratio creates a challenging, competitive environment and fun games.”
Except it didn’t. Instead it forced you into losing matches if you won too many games. It was absolute waste time as you had to sit for 10 min queue and then another 10 in lost match. And on opposite, if you were below 50% win rate you would get stupidly faceroll matches which weren’t fun either. Actual 50/50 matches were rare.
As i said before, i think current system is better it just needs better placement across divisions.
Funny, cause you d think a good player would be able to maintain his winstreak. Oh silly me, so the challenging system was more lenient than the SNAP system?
You think matching HIGH MMR PLAYER (7000 MMR) against Low MMR players (3000 MMR) is ok and competitive?? Really??
will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home.
we don’t need such players.
true pvp players will rise out of the ashes of defeat and emerge victorious.
failure is the mother of success after all.
Not sure if you’re being sarcastic but every game mode needs new blood or it just dies a slow death. Taking WvW as an example, not having new pugs/guilds/players drains the playerbase as hardcore/vets move on, the same will happen in PvP.
There aren’t even enough players/teams for those ESL weekly matches, the last thing PvP needs is a ‘we dont need those players’ mentality.
you need “real” new blood and not cry babies.
That’s the problem here. “Ranked” is just another farming spot, now. People don’t want it to be ranked, they want to be able to farm pips at a nice steady rate until they’re Legends just like everyone else. And ANet did it to themselves by saying the Legendary back pack is for everyone, now everyone thinks it should be easy to rise through the Ranked gameplay.
At this point, Unranked has pretty much no use, because everything thinks they’re “ranked worthy”, or at least, should be, and no one understand that in order for anything “ranked” to work there has to be winners and there has to be losers, and some of them lose hard. Not everyone is or needs to be cut out for Ranked, but because it is essentially just a glorified reward track to a lot of people, they feel that they’re entitled to gain a Division or two in a few days, regardless of the fact that the Season lasts until April, which should be VERY easy to hit Sapphire/Ruby by then. Not everyone will be Legend… that’s okay. It’s not meant to be knocked out in a week, and in some cases, at all if you’re not a good player. And that’s okay.
Ranked just means that your gameplay gets evaluated and ranked. It does not mean that average players cannot take part. Everyone is “ranked worthy”.
Yes, to some extent. But that doesn’t mean very low or even below-average deserve the highest divisions. Nor does it mean they should be even Ruby in a week. Seasons last well over a month.
The old way was far worse, in which poor players got carried and better players got held back all in the sake of a “fair game”. Fair games are for unranked. In ranked, players deserve to be able to rely on their team mates as well as they can be relied on themselves. That’s fair as far as competition goes.
Noone said that they should reach easy legendary. But long loosing streaks in the “tutorial divisions” should not happen unless you deliberately try to throw games.
If you only knew how many players are there camping bronze league (amber) in LoL all season xD (because there you can actually lose tiers).
But at least they don’t lose or win 20 games in row, or get through the whole season (from bronze to challenger) in a week.
Um, yes they do. Also, you won’t get to diamond/legend with 20 games. Besides leagues in LoL have more tiers within each leagues and tiers are 100 pts based and not just 5 pips.
No they don’t, lol. And our 5 pip is tantamount to league 100 pts cause you get on average 15- 20 pts per win. The only thing we don’t have are the placement games to move to a higher tier/ division. And about their winning or losing streak, you should def inquire about their MMR system, you seems to not know how it works.
@Dirtyrascal.1023:
- old system wasn’t looking for 50/50 matches most of the time
- old system promoted farming, there was literary no difference wether you are good or bad player, you just had to farm matches; it was literary old farmboards with sprinkles
Oh hey, there’s a solution. MMR based divisions, poof all problems gone.
My friends said stop to play PVP & don’t see ESL is the best way.
We are not mistreatment, refuse it.
Let GW2 ESL beacomes a joke again.
I would by no means consider myself a pro, but i have been playing pvp since this game launched.
I am a solo queuer, so my opinion comes strongly from that perspective.
I’ve noticed a trend this season with MMR. People who get on a hot streak by luckily getting matched with good teams at the begging fly through the ranks, those that got matched with crappy team mates in the beginning got stuck in a losing streak that is very hard to get out of.
As soon as your MMR goes down you will continue to get matched with crappy teamates and face teams that are better than you. Its extremely hard to break the cycle and quite frankly is completely unfair.
I think current system is way better than old one however they should have implemented qualification matches like in league. They go like this:
- there are 10 qualification matches that don’t affect your rating (yet) but you have to do them to get placement in leagues
- with each win you face better teams but also get better teams
- the more matches out of 10 you win the higher you get placed in divisionsBad players land in lower divisions, better players land in higher divisions and usually don’t see each other so much xD
I also think that not losing tiers is bad thing. I think if you have no pips in a tier and continue to lose matches w/o wins you should lose tier even in emerald and sapphire. Example: infamous Bob is in sapphire tier 3, has 0 pips, he loses 5 matches in a row, he gets moved to tier 2 in sapphire.
LIES, this system is WORSE than season 1. Look at the results. Queues are getting longer, league Day 1: instant-30 sec now………..Day 5: 3-4 min
Why is that? PEOPLE ARE QUITTING NEWBIES AND VETERANS ALIKE
You ELITISTS that got CARRIED to your wins by teaming up/class stacking need to wake up and smell the coffeeTHE SYSTEM HAS FAILED
I agree with this completely. After 14 yrs of gw Im pretty sure Im done. I pvp 90% of the time. I had a 53% win/loss ratio, made it to 2 pips short of diamond seas 1. Been on meta dh/rev/reap. Que’d w/ similar friends in beginning, not as team. Always 100% solo.
The prob w/ all this “reasonable” discussion fo the matchmaking system is that u all assume that the ONLY factor affecting whether a player advances up/ or drops down is their personal skill/mmr.
That is a sorry, sad joke. My first 10 game losing streak (while my friends w/ their lucky win streaks sailed rt into saph) was caused by multiple things BEYOND MY CONTROL and having nothing to do w/ my skill.
For ex – 2nd day. Started as emerald, tier one complete, 2 pips in 2nd tier. Then the kitten began. Ppl doing dailies, who could CARE LESS about their mmr/winning, etc. did NOTHING in my game. Not really afk, but not really playing. Really toxic. Then came the afkers who thought seas 2 was supposed to be like 1 and they thought they were supposed to lose a bunch to sail thru wins. Then I lost 2 to dc’ers/lag (anet fault). I actually lost a pip to a player dcing, who rejoined. Then came the 4 man premades of probable high mmr on ts. I had this in 3 or 4 games. I was paired w/ solos. I checked the chart at end of each game. Not pretty that solo randoms were forced to go against premade 4 reaper or other 2-4 meta build players. Then came the “rerolls.” We all join in. The opposition assesses our composition and “rerolls for a better offense.” No players on our team had alts to reroll. Oh well. Too bad. I could go on and on.
In any event, about 10 – 15 straight losses occurred. Then I started getting worse players. I still had some wins, but the player base was definitely not as good. I didn’t need to be carried, but frankly, no matter how good, if 2 or 3 players on your team are not seasoned pvpers, seasoned pvpers may not be able to “carry the team” against a team of all good/seasoned players, not matter how awesome they are, or how much they try. You add in bs stuff like unbalanced classes/skills/lag, etc. and u have an ugly combination of factors BEYOND A PLAYER’S control, all of which contribute to a player’s downward losing spiral.
Needless to say, once the spiral of doom starts happening, it becomes increasingly more difficult for a “good” player to “carry a team” of 4 bad players. It becomes impossible to raise mmr. I am now being demeaned by players whom I have trounced FOR YEARS in pvp, and being told I need to practice and I just suck and go qq. I am told once the really “good players” graduate, I will be ok and can start my ascent. I am 99 games down. I lol to think what my mmr is.
While I am the first to admit that if I suck, I suck. I am also the first to try and try and try again, to improve my playing. I play all day. I am quite smart. I am not disabled. How can I be 99 games down? How is that even possible, when the laws of statistics in totally random match-ups would dictate I would have a somewhat better win/loss ratio than 99/0.
Then to add in the smug explanations from the “good players” and awesome players that the mmr is working as intended is infuriating. Is this really working as intended? Am I really such garbage? Really? I may suck, but how is it that people I have one on one many a time, and beaten repeatedly for years, are way ahead of me? How can I be stuck at the same tier after 5 days of playing about 12 hrs a day (don’t tell me how much to play). How can I not be getting better?
I know why. Cuz I am now playing the dregs. I am paired w/ ppl who don’t even know what capping is, or that pvp isn’t one on one battle in the middle of map. So toxic too.
Please, save your well-intended, but smug and sanctimonious condescending explanations of the “purist model” of the mmr/match-up system for people who what, need it?