Guild Wars 2

Ron I do respect that you changed your tone that people are wholly responisble for their predicament to people are unnecesarily suffering due to the new system. It’s just insult to injury when people suggest the former.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Did u get to ruby “extremely easily” last season by playing 100% solo q and not throwing a single game and no ts and no rerolls?

Cuz that’s how I roll. And I didn’t find it “extremely easy,” and I am neither an average nor a poor player, but w/e think w/e u want.

I am sry but getting ruby requires literary grind, nothing else, since you didn’t lose tiers.

At first I though this season was better but now I’m starting to understand all the complaints.. It took me 2 days to move out of tier 2 in sapphire.. It took me several hours to get my 3 wins to advance my achievement. I thought moving up would get me better matches but that is not the case.. Lots of people give up the second you start to lose. Not to mention the afkers that don’t even try. Trash talk in matches is bad and it is always point a finger at one person and put the blame on them. I got tired of the pip grind last season somewhere in the middle of ruby. Already tired of the same grind for wins. Maybe I am stuck where I belong but really I’m not seeing much of a difference between this season and the last besides matches being stacked with necros :P

BrotherBelial.3094:

Salamander.2504:

ronpierce.2760:

I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)

+1

System is fine. If you’re on a loss streak, go unranked. No one is entitled to do well in ranked.

I do love this. But if all the “entitled” folk stop playing PvP you wont get your easy wins. Then you’ll start to lose games. Then you’ll be the ones complaining the system is not fair.
snip

No, not really. I’m already in a division (ruby) where the matchups are difficult, and I’m not complaining. No free wins here. The matchups are fair now, presumably because I’ve approached my appropriate division. System working as intended tbh.

Salamander.2504:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Salamander.2504:

ronpierce.2760:

I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)

+1

System is fine. If you’re on a loss streak, go unranked. No one is entitled to do well in ranked.

I do love this. But if all the “entitled” folk stop playing PvP you wont get your easy wins. Then you’ll start to lose games. Then you’ll be the ones complaining the system is not fair.
snip

No, not really. I’m already in a division (ruby) where the matchups are difficult, and I’m not complaining. No free wins here. The matchups are fair now, presumably because I’ve approached my appropriate division. System working as intended tbh.

And this is just it. It does take time to reach that point. And as people like you, and me, and whoever else, moves out of amber/emerald, they will get easier.

This is why I keep saying, this is not a system issue, but it IS a Season 2 issue, for a little while.

Beyond Season 2, we can only hope ANet handles early Division placement better than throwing everyone back into Amber, or do something to REALLY speed up early rank pip gain on win streaks (though for everyone’s sake, I propose just bumping division).

ronpierce.2760:

Salamander.2504:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Salamander.2504:

ronpierce.2760:

I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)

+1

System is fine. If you’re on a loss streak, go unranked. No one is entitled to do well in ranked.

I do love this. But if all the “entitled” folk stop playing PvP you wont get your easy wins. Then you’ll start to lose games. Then you’ll be the ones complaining the system is not fair.
snip

No, not really. I’m already in a division (ruby) where the matchups are difficult, and I’m not complaining. No free wins here. The matchups are fair now, presumably because I’ve approached my appropriate division. System working as intended tbh.

And this is just it. It does take time to reach that point. And as people like you, and me, and whoever else, moves out of amber/emerald, they will get easier.

This is why I keep saying, this is not a system issue, but it IS a Season 2 issue, for a little while.

Beyond Season 2, we can only hope ANet handles early Division placement better than throwing everyone back into Amber, or do something to REALLY speed up early rank pip gain on win streaks (though for everyone’s sake, I propose just bumping division).

I guess it takes some time, me and my duo-que partner went amber→ ruby in about 14 hours spread over two afternoons. In that context, weird matchups for 2 days isn’t a big deal—I’ve experienced much worse in fluke unranked loss streaks etc.

Don’t get me wrong—I’m not opposed to a way to “really speed up” early ranking spots, but the current win-streak bonus seems to do the trick, at least to an extent. Getting 2 pips a game saves an enormous amount of time. Open to ideas though, like pre-season division bumps.

Cynz.9437:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Did u get to ruby “extremely easily” last season by playing 100% solo q and not throwing a single game and no ts and no rerolls?

Cuz that’s how I roll. And I didn’t find it “extremely easy,” and I am neither an average nor a poor player, but w/e think w/e u want.

I am sry but getting ruby requires literary grind, nothing else, since you didn’t lose tiers.

To be fair you can’t lose division either, so even Legendary is a grind.

so that how it works….
but wait…if i can 1v2 and kill both of them and yet lose the game because it is simply too hard to carry 4 person while fighting a team that have common sense, what does that means? im eternally screwed?

It means if you wait a couple of weeks, the theory is anyway, all the other players will be worse than you and you’ll have a much greater chance to win and do the bare minimum to get your backpack and then forget this whole nightmare ever happened.

that doesnt make sense
becoz in the end, once i climb higher, i will meet up with the ppl i 1v2 and won
and with these ppl, fight even stronger ppl?
means i will continue to be eternally screwed?

#puglife

Not totally screwed. You either need to be able to get good enough to solo team fights or make 5 man teams.

SkyShroud.2865:

so that how it works….
but wait…if i can 1v2 and kill both of them and yet lose the game because it is simply too hard to carry 4 person while fighting a team that have common sense, what does that means? im eternally screwed?

TBH I don’t know. It’s an untested system. Ideally, by completely ignoring all the potential negatives as others have, the system should be intuitive enough, as you collate your wins, to raise your mmr above those you kitten whooped and you’ll have the grossly unfair advantage over other teams to regain your appropriate level. But in reality that seems as doubtful as it is likely or may require an inordinate time frame for this to occur. Who knows?

I can add to that. While I was playing solo or duo with very good player I had winstreaks for 10 games, but when I started to play with not as good players (cause I want to enjoy this game with friends) matchmaking went mad. Lost few games in a row and now when i play solo/duo i can get players like marauder DH with a STAFF, who can do empower while 20% of hp vs marauder rev, or warrior with rifle who puts whole skills in reflect. My friend gets ppl who rushes lord without points, leaving everything unsecured, or ppl who go mindlessly 1vs2 and die. All that in RUBY (idk, they got carried and left wintrain?). Meanwhile we as trio got to fight full esl team.

Now without my friend and tytanic map awerness, I can’t win the game (Or if I’m really lucky I get simmilar players like me, who stuck in elohell matchmaking).

Regarding the “make a team” solution. Anet has also barred that in some ways. Keeping in Mind that I’m only tier 3 emerald, I couldn’t party up with a tier 4 amber. The message the game gave is that we were too far apart.

The elitists in this forum are still not grasping that many players will never get past this whole “oh give it half the season to settle out” thing. They ran into luck early on, and now ceaselessly brag about it, whereas many decent players are seeing the exact opposite of the system. It’s kinda like the American economic system. The middle class is getting pushed down, while the upper class is soaring. The end result being that the middle class is disappearing.

Rudy.6184:

I can add to that. While I was playing solo or duo with very good player I had winstreaks for 10 games, but when I started to play with not as good players (cause I want to enjoy this game with friends) matchmaking went mad. Lost few games in a row and now when i play solo/duo i can get players like marauder DH with a STAFF, who can do empower while 20% of hp vs marauder rev, or warrior with rifle who puts whole skills in reflect. My friend gets ppl who rushes lord without points, leaving everything unsecured, or ppl who go mindlessly 1vs2 and die. All that in RUBY (idk, they got carried and left wintrain?). Meanwhile we as trio got to fight full esl team.

Now without my friend and tytanic map awerness, I can’t win the game (Or if I’m really lucky I get simmilar players like me, who stuck in elohell matchmaking).

This is exactly what I met today, I know that some players are new, but getting carried is a terrible thing, because they are both losing and making others lose, the fact that someone didn’t know what capping points meant in my team was painful…

ronpierce.2760:

Salamander.2504:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Salamander.2504:

ronpierce.2760:

I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)

+1

System is fine. If you’re on a loss streak, go unranked. No one is entitled to do well in ranked.

I do love this. But if all the “entitled” folk stop playing PvP you wont get your easy wins. Then you’ll start to lose games. Then you’ll be the ones complaining the system is not fair.
snip

No, not really. I’m already in a division (ruby) where the matchups are difficult, and I’m not complaining. No free wins here. The matchups are fair now, presumably because I’ve approached my appropriate division. System working as intended tbh.

And this is just it. It does take time to reach that point. And as people like you, and me, and whoever else, moves out of amber/emerald, they will get easier.

This is why I keep saying, this is not a system issue, but it IS a Season 2 issue, for a little while.

Beyond Season 2, we can only hope ANet handles early Division placement better than throwing everyone back into Amber, or do something to REALLY speed up early rank pip gain on win streaks (though for everyone’s sake, I propose just bumping division).

But it is a system issue, as this is the system season 2 is using……….

ronpierce.2760:

Salamander.2504:

BrotherBelial.3094:

Salamander.2504:

ronpierce.2760:

I have a few questions.
1. Does unranked still use the old MMR method, where teams are attempted to be balanced?
2. Does unranked MMR gains and losses share with Ranked?

The reason I ask this is, if the above are both true, first off, people need to get out of the mindset that “Ranked” is for everyone. Everyone is welcome to apply, but not everyone will be effective in a highly competitive arena. That’s FINE. There is no reason to hand-hold people in Ranked, that’s what Unranked even exists for. People who want 100% fair matches, remember unranked exists. It may suck to hear, but Ranked simply isn’t a reward track and isn’t intended to be. It is a competition, and as such, it wouldn’t be a competition if everyone won or if it was divided up into baby, medium and high tier (which is effectively what averaging MMR does), because it becomes unfair for the higher tier players who have to fight only higher tier players while lower tier players rise in ranks by fighting other bad players.

I don’t want to come off as rude, but I think people are really watering down what the point of having an “Unranked” and a “Ranked” even is. By no means should anyone feel like they are entitled to do well in Ranked, nor should all apply. If you wish to try to get a few ranks out of it for some rewards, by all means, but I don’t think anyone should EXPECT anything from competition.

To my second question, if they ARE indeed shared, maybe build up your MMR by practicing and getting better in Unranked and try making a static team before shooting for Ranked play. (And if not, perhaps they should be.)

+1

System is fine. If you’re on a loss streak, go unranked. No one is entitled to do well in ranked.

I do love this. But if all the “entitled” folk stop playing PvP you wont get your easy wins. Then you’ll start to lose games. Then you’ll be the ones complaining the system is not fair.
snip

No, not really. I’m already in a division (ruby) where the matchups are difficult, and I’m not complaining. No free wins here. The matchups are fair now, presumably because I’ve approached my appropriate division. System working as intended tbh.

And this is just it. It does take time to reach that point. And as people like you, and me, and whoever else, moves out of amber/emerald, they will get easier.

This is why I keep saying, this is not a system issue, but it IS a Season 2 issue, for a little while.

Beyond Season 2, we can only hope ANet handles early Division placement better than throwing everyone back into Amber, or do something to REALLY speed up early rank pip gain on win streaks (though for everyone’s sake, I propose just bumping division).

It’s been explained to you that many times but whatever… my last try:

OK so the High MMR players need to move out of the lower tiers. Fine. What isn’t fine is that the system is deliberately pitching lower MMR teams into matches that they have 0% chance of winning.
Then it further lowers the MMR of the losing team so that they get even worse team mates and the cycle continues.
It doesn’t matter that you think it’s fair. It doesn’t matter that now people are getting even matches in Ruby. The higher MMR players got there solely by rofl-stomping on lower MMR players and that is a poorly designed system.

Fair, rewarding, challenging and fun leagues can exist without alienating a large section of the player base.

Also the idea that it will become better for the lower MMR players assumes that the higher MMR players ALL start at the beginning of the system and get out of the way, which isn’t going to be the case.

Also why should average MMR players have their MMR artificially lowered by a system that set them up in impossible match-ups.

Noone is arguing that higher MMR players shouldn’t be in higher ranks but basically kittening on a large section of the player base to achieve this is totally unnecessary.

This is a screw up.

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

Amineo.8951:

Rudy.6184:

I can add to that. While I was playing solo or duo with very good player I had winstreaks for 10 games, but when I started to play with not as good players (cause I want to enjoy this game with friends) matchmaking went mad. Lost few games in a row and now when i play solo/duo i can get players like marauder DH with a STAFF, who can do empower while 20% of hp vs marauder rev, or warrior with rifle who puts whole skills in reflect. My friend gets ppl who rushes lord without points, leaving everything unsecured, or ppl who go mindlessly 1vs2 and die. All that in RUBY (idk, they got carried and left wintrain?). Meanwhile we as trio got to fight full esl team.

Now without my friend and tytanic map awerness, I can’t win the game (Or if I’m really lucky I get simmilar players like me, who stuck in elohell matchmaking).

This is exactly what I met today, I know that some players are new, but getting carried is a terrible thing, because they are both losing and making others lose, the fact that someone didn’t know what capping points meant in my team was painful…

Your joking about that last bit right?

jessiestiles.9437:

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

But while I empathize to a degree, I can’t empathize with someone who refuses to understand that there are other modes that suit their needs already, refuse to get better, refuse to find friends to play with them, refuse to do anything to help themselves, and only wish to complain until Ranked turned back into a reward track- Glorified Unranked, as it was. That’s what annoys me the most. I’ve come up with many answers, including future solutions, while I’m met with people bashing their heads on their screens with “No, no, no, no because, no.”

I get it, people are frustrated, but people aren’t listening to me. It is the FIRST WEEK, of a mistake of throwing everyone in the same Division. That’s the big flaw of the system. The match making is not the issue because it DOES pan out with higher Divisions, as I stated. It’s the entitlement that people have that annoys me.

So what you don’t get your ranked pretty backpack in just 1 season? So try to work your way to Sapphire over a few seasons and get it, and spend more time in Unranked where it’s more fun to you? “NO,” that’s just a ridiculous suggestion… Why?

I think the season should have started with a set of reference videos illustrating and explaining the required skill for “Amber”, “Emerald”, … game play and then let the players choose their starting position in the range of “Amber” to “Ruby”.

Then a “qualification phase” with a matchmaking similar to what we have now (probably even more harsh) would clean up the false applications and also fill Diamond and Legendary. The idea is that you are getting punished the most when you have applied for the wrong division.

In any case MMR needs to factor in individual performance in some meaningful way. If this isn’t possible then the whole MMR idea is flawed.

Then the actual season can start with hopefully as many close matches as possible and with a matchmaking algorithm that supports this.

TL;DR.:
– Introduce a qualification phase
– Let players choose their starting position for qualification
– Don’t use the same matchmaking algorithm for qualification and for league play

Edit: Oops, this has a lot in common with
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-PvP-Preseason-before-Season/first#post6012699

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

But while I empathize to a degree, I can’t empathize with someone who refuses to understand that there are other modes that suit their needs already, refuse to get better, refuse to find friends to play with them, refuse to do anything to help themselves, and only wish to complain until Ranked turned back into a reward track- Glorified Unranked, as it was. That’s what annoys me the most. I’ve come up with many answers, including future solutions, while I’m met with people bashing their heads on their screens with “No, no, no, no because, no.”

I get it, people are frustrated, but people aren’t listening to me. It is the FIRST WEEK, of a mistake of throwing everyone in the same Division. That’s the big flaw of the system. The match making is not the issue because it DOES pan out with higher Divisions, as I stated. It’s the entitlement that people have that annoys me.

So what you don’t get your ranked pretty backpack in just 1 season? So try to work your way to Sapphire over a few seasons and get it, and spend more time in Unranked where it’s more fun to you? “NO,” that’s just a ridiculous suggestion… Why?

Its always people that benefit from the flaws in a system that see no problem.

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

Not at all. I can see things from another person’s perspective. That isn’t the issue with me at least. I don’t personally feel that competing with people of varying skill on my team affects my ability to enjoy a game or that carrying someone is something I loathe to do. And in no way is that the norm. It does happen but last season games with players of similar skill were just as common as players with varying skill. But you want to only ever play people of the exact same skill level in this competition. I can understand how that might be desirable for someone even if a little narrowminded. However it’s still not addressing the issues posed in the OP which is what I’m actually talking about and a lot of people are asking. I asked you directly about it and recieved no response ie. baring a “division boost” how does this new system address the fact people won’t be bothered to play? This would affect you and everyone else on this thread.

You and I discussed the l2p issue and have gone beyond that as the sole issue people are having a problem with. Which you seemed to grasp. Yet you’re returning to it like a dog with a bone.

As to the last two paragraphs we don’t know that the system will function as intended and it hasn’t as yet for a lot of people. So my answer is I would be willing to give it a try. Yes I could use my condi build and form a team that works with the system to advance quicker but that is the least desirable option I think I’d first prefer to wait a couple of weeks as you suggested. Being able to comprehend and assimilate information is valuable tool.

ronpierce.2760:

Link.1049:

Last season for comparison I was happy making it to Ruby. Given that there are 6 divisions you’d think that average players could reasonably expect to fall somewhere in the middle there, so either Sapphire or Ruby. What I’m seeing is that many people are getting artificially pushed down at the entry gates.

Yeah, by the end. People are too fast, and assume because they are not already sapphire/ruby that its flawed. Seasons do not last a week. That’s why there is so much commenting on “let it flesh out, let people climb tiers” because until people get those arbitrary pips, they’re going to be facing people in lower tiers. There isn’t much else that can be done about it. As people get put into their rightful divisions, as if fleshes out, the lower tiers will be less packed with all levels of players. People simply do not move out of the lower tiers fast enough, when they deserve to be higher.

Hence, again, why I said in Season 3 they should have some type of system for early Division bumps based on where people end in Season 2, that way that curve is evened out much much faster.

A glorious post. Trickle Down Necronomics

Cynz.9437:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Did u get to ruby “extremely easily” last season by playing 100% solo q and not throwing a single game and no ts and no rerolls?

Cuz that’s how I roll. And I didn’t find it “extremely easy,” and I am neither an average nor a poor player, but w/e think w/e u want.

I am sry but getting ruby requires literary grind, nothing else, since you didn’t lose tiers.

Yah, nice evasive response. Didn’t think u play like I do. That’s y u r where u r and I am where I am.

IF anet wants us on a team, PLS DELETE HOTJOIN BUTTON if ur JUST GOING TO PUNISH US FOR USING IT.

SkyShroud.2865:

so that how it works….
but wait…if i can 1v2 and kill both of them and yet lose the game because it is simply too hard to carry 4 person while fighting a team that have common sense, what does that means? im eternally screwed?

Eater of Peeps, you know you can type a response under the quote right? You don’t have to quote, post reply, and then post a separate reply to the quote. Just write it underneath.

As a meta dh, I routinely kill 3 or 4 by myself. So what? If none of ur team is capping, or they die instantly or w./e, guess what, u can still lose. Same when I play reaper or rev.

That’s why I say, MY MMR is not based on MY PERSONAL SKILL. It is based on my TEAM’s COMBINED SKILLS.

ronpierce.2760:

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

Can I please just remind myself and others that the purpose of this thread was not to convince someone who chooses to argue everything that there is a problem, but to support the OP and recount our experiences.

If people want to turn up and call us self entitled, low skilled or whatever, cool…
I’m pretty sure Anet cannot be particularly pleased with the way this has gone, and recounting your experiences here will help more than having a whole thread dedicated to tit for tat with with one guy who’s been having a blast pwning noob teams and feeling like the man with golden balls.

PVP is in a mess, MMR needs a hard reset.

I’m more than happy to compete against people who are better than me and lose, but not in an environment which is purposefully stacked. Not for one game, definitely not for 20.

ronpierce.2760:

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

Nobody is asking for anything easy, we however should not be handicapped by a flawed system of team making in soloq We expect a level playing field in any tournament. For those that are on the easy mode side of this flawed system, you can view your selves all you want as great esl players with awesome skills and talent beyond all, And continue to view all the rest as talentless wannabe whiners that need to learn to play. All my friends have now gone on to other games, in the first prepip leader board we weren’t the best but we all fell around top 100 to 150 with better then 55 to 65 percent win rates. Most left during season 1 and a few stayed for season 2 and now they don’t log in anymore either. But good luck on easy mode.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

ronpierce.2760:

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

Can I please just remind myself and others that the purpose of this thread was not to convince someone who chooses to argue everything that there is a problem, but to support the OP and recount our experiences.

If people want to turn up and call us self entitled, low skilled or whatever, cool…
I’m pretty sure Anet cannot be particularly pleased with the way this has gone, and recounting your experiences here will help more than having a whole thread dedicated to tit for tat with with one guy who’s been having a blast pwning noob teams and feeling like the man with golden balls.

PVP is in a mess, MMR needs a hard reset.

I’m more than happy to compete against people who are better than me and lose, but not in an environment which is purposefully stacked. Not for one game, definitely not for 20.

You realize that a hard MMR reset would make matchmaking even more chaotic, right? QQ would go through the roof.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

As a meta dh, I routinely kill 3 or 4 by myself. So what? If none of ur team is capping, or they die instantly or w./e, guess what, u can still lose. Same when I play reaper or rev.

That’s why I say, MY MMR is not based on MY PERSONAL SKILL. It is based on my TEAM’s COMBINED SKILLS.

QTF. No matter how well you do, it’s a team game, if your team has enough bad in it you will lose.

I know we are all human, and mistakes happen, or we just get overwhelmed. But when people say people just need to “get good” or “L2P” or even “comeback in a few weeks” they are not helpful suggestions. I’m slowly climbing through emerald, but the whole thing is being made slower by the win 2 lose 3 merry go round I’m on for 10-15 matches before I get the 3 in a row so I can move up 1T.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

As a meta dh, I routinely kill 3 or 4 by myself. So what? If none of ur team is capping, or they die instantly or w./e, guess what, u can still lose. Same when I play reaper or rev.

That’s why I say, MY MMR is not based on MY PERSONAL SKILL. It is based on my TEAM’s COMBINED SKILLS.

QTF. No matter how well you do, it’s a team game, if your team has enough bad in it you will lose.

I know we are all human, and mistakes happen, or we just get overwhelmed. But when people say people just need to “get good” or “L2P” or even “comeback in a few weeks” they are not helpful suggestions. I’m slowly climbing through emerald, but the whole thing is being made slower by the win 2 lose 3 merry go round I’m on for 10-15 matches before I get the 3 in a row so I can move up 1T.

Why is win 2 lose 3, followed by a winstreak a problem? It sounds like your win-rate is in the realm of 50%.

On the face of it, I agree that matchmaking needs to be adjusted or looked at as the loss streaks being reported by some players seem unreasonable and unfair. They are obviously being placed in matches way beyond their/their team’s skill level and it is not a fun experience for the majority of players. This needs to be addressed for future seasons.

Having said this, as an experiment earlier I logged on to an account I have never PvP’d with and tried to play amber matches on a S/F Fresh Air non-HoT elementalist. I think we can all agree that isn’t a carry build by any stretch of the imagination, but I still was able to almost get out of amber with a 10 match win streak from the beginning. I only lost 1 game and I won several 1v2s. This isn’t a testament to my skill as much as it telling me that there are very inexperienced players with bad builds presently in amber and if there are still people struggling in amber and emerald the first place I’d look would be your own builds and the rotations you’re making as it seems fairly easy even on an account with base MMR and running a reasonably poor build by today’s standards. I mean, one of my team’s opening splits on Forest was 2 home, 2 to beast and myself to mid, so I just kept them interested at mid without dying and waited for the beast dudes to join the party. Sometimes you have to actively compensate and play around what your teammates are doing, and in order to do that you need good map/general awareness.

Salamander.2504:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

ronpierce.2760:

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

Can I please just remind myself and others that the purpose of this thread was not to convince someone who chooses to argue everything that there is a problem, but to support the OP and recount our experiences.

If people want to turn up and call us self entitled, low skilled or whatever, cool…
I’m pretty sure Anet cannot be particularly pleased with the way this has gone, and recounting your experiences here will help more than having a whole thread dedicated to tit for tat with with one guy who’s been having a blast pwning noob teams and feeling like the man with golden balls.

PVP is in a mess, MMR needs a hard reset.

I’m more than happy to compete against people who are better than me and lose, but not in an environment which is purposefully stacked. Not for one game, definitely not for 20.

You realize that a hard MMR reset would make matchmaking even more chaotic, right? QQ would go through the roof.

Yeah, it’s not going to happen, but if you really wanted to start from a fair position it would be necessary, because the MMR you have should be earned in the environment you compete. Also the system has inflated/deflated people’s undeservedly through inappropriate matchups.

But yeah, it would be chaos and it is unlikely to happen.

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Salamander.2504:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

ronpierce.2760:

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

Can I please just remind myself and others that the purpose of this thread was not to convince someone who chooses to argue everything that there is a problem, but to support the OP and recount our experiences.

If people want to turn up and call us self entitled, low skilled or whatever, cool…
I’m pretty sure Anet cannot be particularly pleased with the way this has gone, and recounting your experiences here will help more than having a whole thread dedicated to tit for tat with with one guy who’s been having a blast pwning noob teams and feeling like the man with golden balls.

PVP is in a mess, MMR needs a hard reset.

I’m more than happy to compete against people who are better than me and lose, but not in an environment which is purposefully stacked. Not for one game, definitely not for 20.

You realize that a hard MMR reset would make matchmaking even more chaotic, right? QQ would go through the roof.

Yeah, it’s not going to happen, but if you really wanted to start from a fair position it would be necessary, because the MMR you have should be earned in the environment you compete. Also the system has inflated/deflated people’s undeservedly through inappropriate matchups.

But yeah, it would be chaos and it is unlikely to happen.

If you haven’t already seen Sunshine’s proposal on a PvP Pre-season, I think it’s implementation would address your major concerns.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-PvP-Preseason-before-Season/first#post6012699

Salamander.2504:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

Salamander.2504:

Dirtyrascal.1023:

ronpierce.2760:

Its always people who can’t get what they want as easily as they want that have problems with anything, what’s your point?

The basis of the system is one I agree with very much. It’s not perfect, and has many of ways to be improved of, especially as we head into the next season, but lets not get all ‘woe is me’ on me here. The fact is, the people who complain the most are always the people who want more out of something, so comments like that does nothing.

People wonder why I come off as arrogant and annoyed…

Can I please just remind myself and others that the purpose of this thread was not to convince someone who chooses to argue everything that there is a problem, but to support the OP and recount our experiences.

If people want to turn up and call us self entitled, low skilled or whatever, cool…
I’m pretty sure Anet cannot be particularly pleased with the way this has gone, and recounting your experiences here will help more than having a whole thread dedicated to tit for tat with with one guy who’s been having a blast pwning noob teams and feeling like the man with golden balls.

PVP is in a mess, MMR needs a hard reset.

I’m more than happy to compete against people who are better than me and lose, but not in an environment which is purposefully stacked. Not for one game, definitely not for 20.

You realize that a hard MMR reset would make matchmaking even more chaotic, right? QQ would go through the roof.

Yeah, it’s not going to happen, but if you really wanted to start from a fair position it would be necessary, because the MMR you have should be earned in the environment you compete. Also the system has inflated/deflated people’s undeservedly through inappropriate matchups.

But yeah, it would be chaos and it is unlikely to happen.

If you haven’t already seen Sunshine’s proposal on a PvP Pre-season, I think it’s implementation would address your major concerns.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Suggestion-PvP-Preseason-before-Season/first#post6012699

That would be a difinite improvement on this for sure.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

As a meta dh, I routinely kill 3 or 4 by myself. So what? If none of ur team is capping, or they die instantly or w./e, guess what, u can still lose. Same when I play reaper or rev.

That’s why I say, MY MMR is not based on MY PERSONAL SKILL. It is based on my TEAM’s COMBINED SKILLS.

well, im using mes. i wont be surprised if is reaper or rev
but if i am forced to use those class to climb up, it also means the classes have big balancing issue

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

But while I empathize to a degree, I can’t empathize with someone who refuses to understand that there are other modes that suit their needs already, refuse to get better, refuse to find friends to play with them, refuse to do anything to help themselves, and only wish to complain until Ranked turned back into a reward track- Glorified Unranked, as it was. That’s what annoys me the most. I’ve come up with many answers, including future solutions, while I’m met with people bashing their heads on their screens with “No, no, no, no because, no.”

I get it, people are frustrated, but people aren’t listening to me. It is the FIRST WEEK, of a mistake of throwing everyone in the same Division. That’s the big flaw of the system. The match making is not the issue because it DOES pan out with higher Divisions, as I stated. It’s the entitlement that people have that annoys me.

So what you don’t get your ranked pretty backpack in just 1 season? So try to work your way to Sapphire over a few seasons and get it, and spend more time in Unranked where it’s more fun to you? “NO,” that’s just a ridiculous suggestion… Why?

Lol, you are wasting your time on Ron; he won’t know how faulty the system is until he get hurt. Anywyas 2ho think that match 10 against 5 is ok is down right kittened. Plain and simple.

I like how you are able to highlight important points through capitalisation.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lol, you are wasting your time on Ron; he won’t know how faulty the system is until he get hurt. Anywyas 2ho think that match 10 against 5 is ok is down right kittened. Plain and simple.

I’ve recognized some issues. I’ve offered solutions for now and later. I’ve only pointed out flaws in peoples’ arguments on how it “should” be according to some. People don’t like me right now because I’m not babying them, but there are answers even now. People just don’t want to hear them. Those parts of any of my comments are ignored and people want to get kitten over the fact that I say a MAJORITY of the people caught in this tailspin were bad to begin with.

Seeing as how 50% of the players will be below average, I’m willing to bet I’m right. People frequently think they’re better than they are. Now, I know that wouldn’t be everyone, but I’ve tried offering solutions, alternatives, and future plans, most of which gets ignored because people are to frustrated at the “here and now”, and don’t want to play with anyone else. I can’t help that.

But no, I’m not particularly nice to people who think 10 paragraphs of caps lock is necessary.

ronpierce.2760:

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

It is objectively wrong that players should be forced to suffer through long losing streaks when anet could have adopted alternate systems that avoid this. Heck they had 1 last season, there was no need to change it other than to make it easier for top tier players to get to legendary and kitten the rest of us. I’m an average player but I know how to play the mode so why should I be forced to suffer through poor teams doing stuff like all the team going straight to the beast, problem is my mmr clearly doesn’t reflect my gameplay.

And being a higher ranked player surely you should want better matches rather than just being given a free ride to the top. There’s really not much to engage empathy for with players who get that free ride, so its not a 2 way street.

As for going to unranked and working towards the legendary in future years this has only just been stated 2 days ago, prior to that the implication was that we only had this year to get it. And we don’t even know how they will change the path to get it in future years will our progress to get it be taken into account. And some of us are having holidays in the middle of the season so we have to work get to the right division to ensure we are still in a position to earn the achievements over the rest of the year.

IMO they will have to change the achievement structure next year to provide a better match to a more appropriate ranked pvp structure, in that case if we haven’t finished the achievements in terms of say crossing divisional thresholds and they get rid of those achievements what happens? Too many questions so its reasonable to want to get the achievements while they are known.

ronpierce.2760:

Torafugu.1087:

We are not begging for fairness. We are asking for something that remotely resembles functionality.

And in a lot of ways, it does. If within a low division, as people grow out of them, you still struggle super hard to get out of the lowest division, either not enough people have left it yet or you’re just not really cut out for making higher tiers yet. It’s brutal, but that’s how competitive environments work.

About the ONLY legitimate concern I have for people losing a lot is “what happens if you’re in a tail spin on MMR?” But I think people are grossly over-attributing how their loss of MMR affects their performance. I think there is a lot of personal growth requires and more than ever, it’s becoming very obvious to people that they aren’t as good as they thought due to the Unranked system trying to create “fair” match ups.

What you don’t understand here is that the ONLY thing effecting your advances is who you are paired with at the moment. It doesn’t matter how good you are, but whether you are in a win spree or loss spree due to the positive feedback.

What is very obvious is the system doesn’t work.

I read through most of this. I played for the last 3 years and I would say my MMR is average. However, after 40 losses and 10 wins, I get half my pips through loss streaks, I would say that I am very disheartened. The issue here is that since the party algorithm uses people with your similar MMR, you get matches with average players and new players. Which means that average players, who already aren’t the best, have to carry new players. I’ve seen also class matchmaking with 3 thieves on my team or 3 necros against premades and balanced teams.

It kept happening all weekend. So the answer is, group up! Well, ok, I put out to 2 of guilds I am in, anyone need someone? No response. I’m tired. I see people go beast or go lord rush or walk into aoe’s. I see lack of stomping and tons of issues. I see people who leave point when it’s 2v1 and we have the person down only to look at the map and see my party down and the person who was down rezed by a teammate.

So now my mmr goes down because I have more losses than wins so I continue to have issues. I could go to unranked but the queue times have gone up because people are playing ranked. It’s great for people to give solutions but in the end, if I could get paired with people that know how to play, I would be thankful.

How are those queue times btw?

I just read on an other forum post some one had over an hour queue, and a few people were averaging 30+ minutes

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

A lot of the people with overemphatic praise do seem to have a complete lack of empathy, ie the ability to comprehend someone elses situation without having direct experience, and cognitive function to possess foresight. Both of which the OP eloquently displayed. These are human qualities we begin to develop an awareness and understanding of as toddlers and hopefully by adulthood are greatly matured. It seems almost non-existant in some of you. I don’t know if it’s pathological or maybe the win streak affected your dopamine levels interfering with your ability to process information. It is a tad disturbing.

I’m sure if they were in the same boat having that unique perspective would impact their feelings about this topic.

That’s sort of a two-way street. For lower MMR players (who would have been lower MMR before this catastrophe, or they’d have been on the rising side, instead) it feels unfair that you have to face anyone better than you.

For people with Higher MMR, the story isn’t the same. From my perspective, it’s nice to see people actually on teams with people in their bracket, that way, I don’t feel the need to carry someone who barely knows what a node is. Prior to now, my frustrations with PvP would be having to deal with people who goof off, then start raging in chat or AFKing. So in a sense, before now, I was the one with the problem, but people being carried certainly didn’t mind getting wins that were far-beyond unearned.

The psychological mumbo-jumbo is a far-reach, and is quite silly. The only psychology here is “everyone wants something different, and if it’s not what they want, it’s wrong”. This includes people who want even matches (both low tier and high tier) and people who only feel the Divisions should matter for who you face, so long as people are teamed with people in their skill range.

No one is ‘right’ or ‘wrong’, people have unique needs and wants, and that’s not possible to deliver on them all. Certainly the low-tier players are the most frustrated, and it’s understandable.

But while I empathize to a degree, I can’t empathize with someone who refuses to understand that there are other modes that suit their needs already, refuse to get better, refuse to find friends to play with them, refuse to do anything to help themselves, and only wish to complain until Ranked turned back into a reward track- Glorified Unranked, as it was. That’s what annoys me the most. I’ve come up with many answers, including future solutions, while I’m met with people bashing their heads on their screens with “No, no, no, no because, no.”

I get it, people are frustrated, but people aren’t listening to me. It is the FIRST WEEK, of a mistake of throwing everyone in the same Division. That’s the big flaw of the system. The match making is not the issue because it DOES pan out with higher Divisions, as I stated. It’s the entitlement that people have that annoys me.

So what you don’t get your ranked pretty backpack in just 1 season? So try to work your way to Sapphire over a few seasons and get it, and spend more time in Unranked where it’s more fun to you? “NO,” that’s just a ridiculous suggestion… Why?