Guild Wars 2

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I spend 10 hrs a day trying to grind out of the emerald tier the pro leagues all sank me to that first day.

no you dont.

I started pvp on day one and Im now in mid sapphire. I blew through amber as a solo queuer.
I got several winning streaks of 5+ games won. After each winning streak I lost 2-3 games in a row and then started next winning streak.
Only once I got the feeling of not being able to progress at all, when I lost and won games alternating for several games and I always lost really close (400+ to 500). You know, those games you wouldnt loose a pip in last season. That was extremely frustrating there. But even that situation was solved by simply logging out and logging in the next day.

So yes, you can progress as a soloqueuer. Quite well actually.

Just follow the cardinal rule, stated often here on these forums:
Log out, take a break or do some pve as soon as you loose one game! Keep on playing until you loose!

And here’s one more tip for soloqueuers.
Get three professions ready for pvp so you can easily switch between them. Make them so they are able to take different roles. For example, a power-rev, a scrapper and an aurahealer. PRACTICE with those three in hotjoin/unranked until you know exactly which skill to use when and what is your hardcounter so you can avoid it.
THIS is absolutely necessary when you play soloqueue, and it will make the difference between winning and loosing when you are able to switch to aurahealer because your team is lacking support etc. As a bonus… this way you get your 3 profession wins achievements easily.

Also… dont make the mistake of ever doing daily in ranked. Get your daily profession win in hotjoin/rankfarm. Do NOT try to force it in ranked. There’s enough idiots that are doing that already, dont be one of those.

Yasi.9065:

Also… dont make the mistake of ever doing daily in ranked. Get your daily profession win in hotjoin/rankfarm. Do NOT try to force it in ranked. There’s enough idiots that are doing that already, dont be one of those.

While I agree with this, I am thankful when they are not on my team so I get a win.

Yasi.9065:

And here’s one more tip for soloqueuers.
Get three professions ready for pvp so you can easily switch between them. Make them so they are able to take different roles. For example, a power-rev, a scrapper and an aurahealer. PRACTICE with those three in hotjoin/unranked until you know exactly which skill to use when and what is your hardcounter so you can avoid it.
THIS is absolutely necessary when you play soloqueue, and it will make the difference between winning and loosing when you are able to switch to aurahealer because your team is lacking support etc. As a bonus… this way you get your 3 profession wins achievements easily.

This is a very good point actually.
And I generally agree with this post, especially since I’m in the exact same situation (in the middle of sapphire, alternating victories and defeats – first two tiers were very easy for me by the way, only in sapphire I could feel the new level of my opposition).

And you know wha ? It’s kitten great, so many awesome matches I had since moved to division 3.

Astralporing.1957:

Kuya.6495:

So you see, i really don’t trust this complaining that people keep getting matched with bad players, because there’s a good chance they are pretty bad themselves if not worse.

Well, if the system is working right, as you say, and you are teamed with people like that, then obviously you are as bad as they are, or worse. Right?

Perhaps then that warrior was right and, no matter how unskilled/inexperienced, he was still the best player in your team. Right?

Or perhaps, maybe, there is something wrong with the matchmaking system…

Sure. I was bad enough to be placed on the same team as that warrior. I don’t have a problem with being consequential.

Now, whether he was the best player on the team, that’s another matter entirely. Somehow, i doubt that, but who knows, maybe you like rushing lord solo at 250 too? Might explain a lot around here, honestly.

MadRabbit.3179:

Zuko.7132:

Hi all. I’m Zuko. I play tempest for Best Team North Africa, which is currently invited to participate in the Challenger Cup to qualify for Pro-League.

So the goal of this new matchmaking is to make the league system more skill-based. So if you have high mmr (the game thinks ur good) you will progress faster and easier. If you have low mmr (game thinks ur bad) you might have incredible difficulty getting out of amber. How it works is you get matched with players on ur team of similar mmr. The opposing team has team mates of a similar mmr on it. However, your teams average mmr and the enemy teams mmr can be vastly different. If you are one of the players in the top 1% then you have a 99% chance to face an enemy team with lower skill than you. Likewise if you are in the bottom 50% you have a 50% chance to fight people much better than you.

The idea is that the good players will progress to higher divisions quicker and leave only the bad to average players in the lower divisions. Then the average players will advance leaving only the bad players. So as the season goes on your matches should start becoming more balanced, and divisions will actually represent skill instead of time spent playing like last season.

Here’s the issue with that. While I love the fact that I am progressing quickly as a reward for being one of the more highly skilled players, this type of matchmaking can be quite discouraging to a majority of the playerbase. If the game doesn’t already rate you as good, you will be more likely to lose and the game will think more and more that you suck. Anet’s answer to this is as time progresses matches will become better. I fear however that this new matchmaking will cause many of the new, average, and bad players to just give up before matchmaking becomes balance again. Call it quits and go home. And let’s face it, that’s bad for the game. I would ask anet if having the few really good players progress faster is worth angering and harming the gaming experience of the vast majority of the player population. Also for the unlucky people who actually are bad whether it be from being unable to commit enough time or just lacking skill, there matches will never get better as they are always going to be below average and so will always have more of a chance to face teams better than them, and will always be on a losing streak and thus quit the game.

Feel free to share your thoughts.

Same system in Hearthstone. Just do what people do there and wait a week or two on a fresh ladder if you want your grind to be easier. Implement a system that boosts starting rank based on ending rank in previous season. You still need a full reset like this to establish the rankings needed to implement that.

Outside of that, what do you advocate as an alternative system? Not a lot of better options.

A better system? Destroy premades. if you allow solo entry, make group entry IMPOSSIBLE. Next, throw people together and balance the MMR of both sides. this means 5 average could be paired against 2 greats and 3 useless players easily, and yes the 2 greats would lose MMR for the loss. No division, no seperation, everyone is always in the exact same pool of players, simply reward the end resulting high MMRs.

Yes, this makes it partially luck of the draw. but if people are as elite as they seem tot hink they are they can make bad players passably or carry teams as needed. otherwise they can just admit they aren’t that great as an individual and only are great when paired with others that they can fit with.

The truly great wishes to PROVE they are great by fighting all comers, with any allies, the good and the bad.

Yes, this means the bads will sometimes be carried, the ‘greats’ will blame everyone but themselves for loses. However the average MMR of any match will be very close and streaks will be entirely based upon your willingness to work with people you know nothing about rather than names you are used to seeing in the upper tiers.

Runiir.6425:

Next, throw people together and balance the MMR of both sides. this means 5 average could be paired against 2 greats and 3 useless players easily, and yes the 2 greats would lose MMR for the loss. No division, no seperation, everyone is always in the exact same pool of players, simply reward the end resulting high MMRs.

how about you just go play unranked in the offseason to see how kittenty this kind of matchmaking actually is

insanemaniac.2456:

Runiir.6425:

Next, throw people together and balance the MMR of both sides. this means 5 average could be paired against 2 greats and 3 useless players easily, and yes the 2 greats would lose MMR for the loss. No division, no seperation, everyone is always in the exact same pool of players, simply reward the end resulting high MMRs.

how about you just go play unranked in the offseason to see how kittenty this kind of matchmaking actually is

Yes, I do pvp in off season all the time because I enjoy playing pvp.
It’s not perfect, but it works, what we have right now doesn’t.

Warlord.9074:

People keep saying anet delivered what people asked for, but people never asked for the system to work like this. People asked for competitive matches and not to be paired with bad players on their team.

I actually dont have a problem with being paired with bad teammates. If the system thinks im bad and i have to be with bad players thats ok with me. What i do have a problem tho is that im 90% of the time facing better/more skilled teams and get steamrolled. So i really think system should put bad (or good) players in both teams against eachother and not the good vs bad that is just most stupid thing anet can do.

Torafugu.1087:

insanemaniac.2456:

Runiir.6425:

Next, throw people together and balance the MMR of both sides. this means 5 average could be paired against 2 greats and 3 useless players easily, and yes the 2 greats would lose MMR for the loss. No division, no seperation, everyone is always in the exact same pool of players, simply reward the end resulting high MMRs.

how about you just go play unranked in the offseason to see how kittenty this kind of matchmaking actually is

Yes, I do pvp in off season all the time because I enjoy playing pvp.
It’s not perfect, but it works, what we have right now doesn’t.

personally, i dont recall a single game worth calling good during offseason. but hey, thats just an anecdote.

Runiir.6425:

A better system? Destroy premades. if you allow solo entry, make group entry IMPOSSIBLE. Next, throw people together and balance the MMR of both sides. this means 5 average could be paired against 2 greats and 3 useless players easily, and yes the 2 greats would lose MMR for the loss. No division, no seperation, everyone is always in the exact same pool of players, simply reward the end resulting high MMRs.

I would say that is subjectively a better system for people playing solo, but not people who want to play league with their friends. I mean, I play video games almost exclusively solo outside of a few games, but I like to think I am the exception not the rule.

As far as destroying the MMR pairings and randomizing the team composition, I just see that creating a more toxic environment than what already exists. The benefit to the system is that it groups up the casuals with the casuals and the tryhards with the tryhards better than a randomized system would.

Like, you create a competitive environment where people are being branded with numbers right next to their names that are psychologically establishing a degree of social status in the PvP community and then throw random players together, you are just setting up a situation for the losers using the weaker players as scapegoats to vent their anger at losing at more so then what already exists.

The issue of all these toxic posts seems to be more that it’s the start of a fresh league and all the players are in one big pool and by chance, players are getting pitted against teams with higher average MMRs then theirs, losing and getting pushed down further in the caliber of players they are paired with.

That kind of stuff will normalize as the season progresses and divisions dilute and seems to me to be better solved by just boasting players to higher divisions based on their previous season’s final standing. It will help to speed the process of diluting the lower division.

But this kind of issue…it’s just part of ladders and competitive play…even in pro tournaments. I watch Starcraft II ESL a lot where the tournament pairings are randomized. It’s common to see a player you are rooting for who has the potential to make it to the quarter or semi finals get randomly paired with a player with the potential to win the whole thing and get destroyed without ever leaving the lower brackets.

His success in the tournament wasn’t representative of his potential skill, but that’s life.

If you don’t like the liability of playing with other random people, go play a 1 vs 1 game like hearthstone. When you get owned by tryhards with competitive net decks at rank 20 at the start of a fresh ladder, you can just blame it all on RNG card draw.

This is from higher level diamond and rubys complaining about hour long ques in another thread.

claytonmorby.3751

No I completely agree that it sucks and needs a solution, sorry for being a kitten just my natural state.

I took a break for a day and because it was the same exact 10-12 people for like 12 straight matches in ruby. I think what this season clearly shows is that the divisions themselves need to be reworked. The population can’t support the number of divisions and tiers to have good matchmaking. Also if people like us are on a 12+ game win streak, then kitten maybe we should skip emerald and sapphire. But oh wait that can’t happen cause anet made a hybrid reward track/league instead of a true competitive ladder :p

I guess its not a true ladder after all.

I was legend s3. I’m currently sapphire 5 after going 30 wins, zero losses. (Soloqueued every game)

This system works at separating divisoins SUPER FAST, but it creates massive loss streaks for the lower players but also is garunteed to create imbalanced games because there are too many divisions for the player base. The game cant match fair games if it can only pool from the players that are in sapphire 5.

I tanked my mmr to bottom level right now, to a point where I get BETTER matches in unranked. The number of total ranked games I played wasn’t as high of that of most of you. This means the s2 debacle actually had an impact, so now I can forget about playing any ranked match.

I get kids that call me names, people that feed all the time, and people that don’t talk. Lol guild wors. Atl unranked has more maps.

cosmicegg.8502:

This is from higher level diamond and rubys complaining about hour long ques in another thread.

claytonmorby.3751

No I completely agree that it sucks and needs a solution, sorry for being a kitten just my natural state.

I took a break for a day and because it was the same exact 10-12 people for like 12 straight matches in ruby. I think what this season clearly shows is that the divisions themselves need to be reworked. The population can’t support the number of divisions and tiers to have good matchmaking. Also if people like us are on a 12+ game win streak, then kitten maybe we should skip emerald and sapphire. But oh wait that can’t happen cause anet made a hybrid reward track/league instead of a true competitive ladder :p

I guess its not a true ladder after all.

People have been saying this would happen for days. People are getting burned out with losing match after match. My matches are working out about 50/50. But as soon as I lose 3 games I stop playing PvP for the day. No point in wrecking my MMR. If most players are doing this it would thin the numbers. Some might be doing this but I know of people who have just stopped playing ranked PvP as the have been stuck in the same place for days.

I know for there to be winners there has to be losers. But the current system seems to take this to extremes. I read a post yesterday that a player was claiming the couldn’t move out of T1 amber. I’m T4 emerald and I’m being matched up with sapphire players all the time. I don’t expect to be handed anything, but when I’m getting stomped or being the stomper, games are not challenging. They seem to be one-sided slaughters.

I’ve had a few close matches in the last week probably about 7 in total.

Lots of you guys are treating this season a lot like the grind ladder we had last time around. When I see people complaining about losing 20 matches in a row in a single night all I can wonder is why they didn’t take a break. It’s just a game but if you are getting all frustrated because of these huge losing streaks your play is going to suffer, its probably better to just sit back and do some unranked or hot join for a bit to collect yourself.

Give some time for the players with higher MMR to move up and then you can carry a group of 4 bads against 5 bads, at least you should be able to if you are truly a much better player than the people you are complaining about being matched up with 20 times a night.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

Lots of you guys are treating this season a lot like the grind ladder we had last time around. When I see people complaining about losing 20 matches in a row in a single night all I can wonder is why they didn’t take a break. It’s just a game but if you are getting all frustrated because of these huge losing streaks your play is going to suffer, its probably better to just sit back and do some unranked or hot join for a bit to collect yourself.

Give some time for the players with higher MMR to move up and then you can carry a group of 4 bads against 5 bads, at least you should be able to if you are truly a much better player than the people you are complaining about being matched up with 20 times a night.

But the problem most of us re having is that the “good” can’t move anywhere because they are fighting the same people over and over and getting nowhere. The population is spreading out and thinning out at the same time. Leading the game to match lover division players with higher, as I’ve had quite a few times, T4 emerald Vs sapphire. So they can be “pushed” up. I’m seeing the same sapphire players, so that means I’m not getting anywhere, and they are not getting anywhere.

Queue times have increased alot too. 2 days ago it was about 30.seconds to have a match start, now it’s between 5-10 minutes, and that’s for soloQ. Some times of day are better than others, but there are definitely less people playing ranked now. And this is after a week. How is it going to look by April?

BrotherBelial.3094:

…

Queue times have increased alot too. 2 days ago it was about 30.seconds to have a match start, now it’s between 5-10 minutes, and that’s for soloQ. Some times of day are better than others, but there are definitely less people playing ranked now. And this is after a week. How is it going to look by April?

1 week into this season HotM is currently sparsely populated at best, compared to season start. I myself have just stopped playing pvp because it just isn’t fun, and I know of numerous guildies across various guilds that have done the same.
Me, i’m not coming back this season, as the current necro stacking meta combined with an extremely broken matchmaking system has no forseeable potential for fun matches at all.

This current system will and is damaging the pvp as a whole, good players will fight bad teams and go up constantly whilst those average, unlucky and below will stop doing pvp and will not come back again which increases wait time for matches and makes every league after longer because no easy win.

And they can not do wvw as well because right now it is pretty dead and te HoT content is sub par quality. They are having less and less reason to stay whilst A-net tries to profit from tournaments like lol and dota.

Unlike these companies there is very little balancing as you can switch your class at any point with no dishonour and can stack good builds like the necro one so you are fighting 3 necro almost every game.

They should be working on the problems they have instead of bringing out new things like pvp leagues when they can not fix rigged games like the many of the same classes and how a meta that is op is not sorted out until after, allowing people to steamroll through.

I am only going up 1 Division a season as a minimal for the achievements and to slowly work towards the backpiece, wy should I bust my hump needlessly when A-net is stacking the odds in favour of the team I am constantly against.

I can do pretty well in pvp game modes but due to some bad teams at the beginning I am now doomed to crappy teams and as a player of gw 1 and playing from the beta for this I am getting tired of having to defend A-nets string of poor choices from pvp to pve and wvw.

There are many mmo games about I enjoy and am considering to switch to because they seem to have taken a nose dive in quality and effort.

BrotherBelial.3094:

cosmicegg.8502:

This is from higher level diamond and rubys complaining about hour long ques in another thread.

claytonmorby.3751

No I completely agree that it sucks and needs a solution, sorry for being a kitten just my natural state.

I took a break for a day and because it was the same exact 10-12 people for like 12 straight matches in ruby. I think what this season clearly shows is that the divisions themselves need to be reworked. The population can’t support the number of divisions and tiers to have good matchmaking. Also if people like us are on a 12+ game win streak, then kitten maybe we should skip emerald and sapphire. But oh wait that can’t happen cause anet made a hybrid reward track/league instead of a true competitive ladder :p

I guess its not a true ladder after all.

People have been saying this would happen for days. People are getting burned out with losing match after match. My matches are working out about 50/50. But as soon as I lose 3 games I stop playing PvP for the day. No point in wrecking my MMR. If most players are doing this it would thin the numbers. Some might be doing this but I know of people who have just stopped playing ranked PvP as the have been stuck in the same place for days.

I know for there to be winners there has to be losers. But the current system seems to take this to extremes. I read a post yesterday that a player was claiming the couldn’t move out of T1 amber. I’m T4 emerald and I’m being matched up with sapphire players all the time. I don’t expect to be handed anything, but when I’m getting stomped or being the stomper, games are not challenging. They seem to be one-sided slaughters.

I’ve had a few close matches in the last week probably about 7 in total.

just fyi, it is actually normal to face players from higher divisions when you are in t4-5

Fivedawgs.4267:

Zoose.1640:

Since the season is so short they should just implement placement matches and have it go from there. Last season for me was actually good towards the end because it did weed out a lot of players and I was already Legend x6, so most of my matches were quality matches.

I was talking on stream today about how discouraging it would be for a new player and also as to how easy it is to obtain Legendary even for fairly above average players, so why not just speed your process up by having placement matches instead of having good players grind and force lesser players to lose constantly vs that.

This^^^ .. but some people are so sticker up on their side that they fail to see the bigger picture. Thanks for your input ZOOSE.

Now we have 3 pro player on this thread alone giving their take on the system.

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

Cynz.9437:

BrotherBelial.3094:

cosmicegg.8502:

This is from higher level diamond and rubys complaining about hour long ques in another thread.

claytonmorby.3751

No I completely agree that it sucks and needs a solution, sorry for being a kitten just my natural state.

I took a break for a day and because it was the same exact 10-12 people for like 12 straight matches in ruby. I think what this season clearly shows is that the divisions themselves need to be reworked. The population can’t support the number of divisions and tiers to have good matchmaking. Also if people like us are on a 12+ game win streak, then kitten maybe we should skip emerald and sapphire. But oh wait that can’t happen cause anet made a hybrid reward track/league instead of a true competitive ladder :p

I guess its not a true ladder after all.

People have been saying this would happen for days. People are getting burned out with losing match after match. My matches are working out about 50/50. But as soon as I lose 3 games I stop playing PvP for the day. No point in wrecking my MMR. If most players are doing this it would thin the numbers. Some might be doing this but I know of people who have just stopped playing ranked PvP as the have been stuck in the same place for days.

I know for there to be winners there has to be losers. But the current system seems to take this to extremes. I read a post yesterday that a player was claiming the couldn’t move out of T1 amber. I’m T4 emerald and I’m being matched up with sapphire players all the time. I don’t expect to be handed anything, but when I’m getting stomped or being the stomper, games are not challenging. They seem to be one-sided slaughters.

I’ve had a few close matches in the last week probably about 7 in total.

just fyi, it is actually normal to face players from higher divisions when you are in t4-5

What when you’ve just broken in to T4? I’ve only seen them in the last 2 days. So I can only go on my own experiences.

Phaeton.9582

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

They are still meaningless. play enough and long enough and you’ll keep going to you hit a division that once you can lose T’s you won’t progress anymore if you are not good enough.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Cynz.9437:

BrotherBelial.3094:

cosmicegg.8502:

This is from higher level diamond and rubys complaining about hour long ques in another thread.

claytonmorby.3751

No I completely agree that it sucks and needs a solution, sorry for being a kitten just my natural state.

I took a break for a day and because it was the same exact 10-12 people for like 12 straight matches in ruby. I think what this season clearly shows is that the divisions themselves need to be reworked. The population can’t support the number of divisions and tiers to have good matchmaking. Also if people like us are on a 12+ game win streak, then kitten maybe we should skip emerald and sapphire. But oh wait that can’t happen cause anet made a hybrid reward track/league instead of a true competitive ladder :p

I guess its not a true ladder after all.

People have been saying this would happen for days. People are getting burned out with losing match after match. My matches are working out about 50/50. But as soon as I lose 3 games I stop playing PvP for the day. No point in wrecking my MMR. If most players are doing this it would thin the numbers. Some might be doing this but I know of people who have just stopped playing ranked PvP as the have been stuck in the same place for days.

I know for there to be winners there has to be losers. But the current system seems to take this to extremes. I read a post yesterday that a player was claiming the couldn’t move out of T1 amber. I’m T4 emerald and I’m being matched up with sapphire players all the time. I don’t expect to be handed anything, but when I’m getting stomped or being the stomper, games are not challenging. They seem to be one-sided slaughters.

I’ve had a few close matches in the last week probably about 7 in total.

just fyi, it is actually normal to face players from higher divisions when you are in t4-5

What when you’ve just broken in to T4? I’ve only seen them in the last 2 days. So I can only go on my own experiences.

Phaeton.9582

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

They are still meaningless. play enough and long enough and you’ll keep going to you hit a division that once you can lose T’s you won’t progress anymore if you are not good enough.

Nah, it is normal. I had it happen even last season.

Cynz.9437

Nah, it is normal. I had it happen even last season.

Ok, thanks for the knowledge.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Phaeton.9582

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

They are still meaningless. play enough and long enough and you’ll keep going to you hit a division that once you can lose T’s you won’t progress anymore if you are not good enough.

Your description makes them sound meaningful, but I agree so far it’s been a walkover. Still it’s much more rewarding to stronger players in terms of progression speed. Certainly didn’t encounter a close 5v5 match in the first 3 tiers.

I wrote a big long beautiful description since I heard I was quoted from another thread here, but my phone kittened up so it’s gone. >:I

TDLR
I think matchmaking has done a good job seperatinge high tier players.

There aren’t enough pop for divisions.

Placement matches should be a thing

The big issue is rewards, it’s why placement matches haven’t been done I assume.
Anet has tied super mega legendary to this system, which was unnecessary. I would’ve been fine with the icon and title. Exclusive rewards aren’t bad, but for a such a small portion of the pop without something comparable for your average player really sucks.

claytonmorby.3751:

I wrote a big long beautiful description since I heard I was quoted from another thread here, but my phone kittened up so it’s gone. >:I

TDLR
I think matchmaking has done a good job seperatinge high tier players.

There aren’t enough pop for divisions.

Placement matches should be a thing

The big issue is rewards, it’s why placement matches haven’t been done I assume.
Anet has tied super mega legendary to this system, which was unnecessary. I would’ve been fine with the icon and title. Exclusive rewards aren’t bad, but for a such a small portion of the pop without something comparable for your average player really sucks.

I agree the mistake for Anet was to not have qualifiers. People fall into the average category for a number of reasons and not all of them are skill related. Time constraints of the player has as much an impact as skill on your rating. When Anet inflated the mmr of lower skilled and newer players and pooled them into the mean with experienced players they diluted the skill level in that pool. Add to that, Anet made that group face better players from a naturally developed skill pool, then this present environment could be the only outcome. This stopped being a true ladder match.

cosmicegg.8502:

claytonmorby.3751:

I wrote a big long beautiful description since I heard I was quoted from another thread here, but my phone kittened up so it’s gone. >:I

TDLR
I think matchmaking has done a good job seperatinge high tier players.

There aren’t enough pop for divisions.

Placement matches should be a thing

The big issue is rewards, it’s why placement matches haven’t been done I assume.
Anet has tied super mega legendary to this system, which was unnecessary. I would’ve been fine with the icon and title. Exclusive rewards aren’t bad, but for a such a small portion of the pop without something comparable for your average player really sucks.

I agree the mistake for Anet was to not have qualifiers. People fall into the average category for a number of reasons and not all of them are skill related. Time constraints of the player has as much an impact as skill on your rating. When Anet inflated the mmr of lower skilled and newer players and pooled them into the mean with experienced players they diluted the skill level in that pool. Add to that, Anet made that group face better players from a naturally developed skill pool, then this present environment could be the only outcome. This stopped being a true ladder match.

I agree and to add to that, the ladder, by all means, does not separate high skilled player from lower ones. Instead, it segregate based on MMR, Why? In addition to numerous people claiming that they had better result on their necro, which I am assuming they suck at, then their main, Not all high MMR players have higher skills even though most Do.

The way the system is setup, your MMR is affected by the class you use ( how OP it is), your skills, and are you duo ing or in a premade. Out of all those factors, your class has the greatest influence on your MMR. Ergo, a high skilled warrior players MIGHT ended having a low MMR than an average Rev or low skilled necro. And pictures have been posted on this subforum section alone.

Fivedawgs.4267:

cosmicegg.8502:

claytonmorby.3751:

I wrote a big long beautiful description since I heard I was quoted from another thread here, but my phone kittened up so it’s gone. >:I

TDLR
I think matchmaking has done a good job seperatinge high tier players.

There aren’t enough pop for divisions.

Placement matches should be a thing

The big issue is rewards, it’s why placement matches haven’t been done I assume.
Anet has tied super mega legendary to this system, which was unnecessary. I would’ve been fine with the icon and title. Exclusive rewards aren’t bad, but for a such a small portion of the pop without something comparable for your average player really sucks.

I agree the mistake for Anet was to not have qualifiers. People fall into the average category for a number of reasons and not all of them are skill related. Time constraints of the player has as much an impact as skill on your rating. When Anet inflated the mmr of lower skilled and newer players and pooled them into the mean with experienced players they diluted the skill level in that pool. Add to that, Anet made that group face better players from a naturally developed skill pool, then this present environment could be the only outcome. This stopped being a true ladder match.

I agree and to add to that, by all means, does not separate high skilled player from lower ones. Instead, it segregate based on MMR, Why? In addition to numerous people claiming that they had better result on their necro, which I am assuming they suck at, then their main, Not all high MMR players have higher skills even though most Do.

The way the system is setup, your MMR is affected by the class you use ( how OP it is), your skills, and are you duo ing or in a premade. Out of all those factors, your class has the greatest influence on your MMR. Ergo, a high skilled warrior players MIGHT ended having a low MMR than an average Rev or low skilled necro. And pictures have been posted on this subforum section alone.

I’m not sure but I thought for this tournament mmr is account based I don’t know if its like that in unranked though. I also know they keep track of both.

Yes, the MMR is account based, my point being you have a better chance at winning ( hence increasing your MMR) by using a GOD tier class, which you are unskilled at, then using another class (Not- GOD tier) which are very skilled at. So the argument that the new ladder segregate on skill alone becomes a bit shaky.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Yes, the MMR is account based, my point being you have a better chance at winning ( hence increasing your MMR) by using a GOD tier class, which you are unskilled at, then using another class (Not- GOD tier) which are very skilled at. So the argument that the new ladder segregate on skill alone becomes a bit shaky.

Well class balance is a whole different issue but I see your point.

insanemaniac.2456:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

I spend 10 hrs a day trying to grind out of the emerald tier the pro leagues all sank me to that first day.

no you dont.

Oh yes I do

how would u know? do u live with me?

I spend ten hours a day or more on this game in pvp, which anet can verify easily

I am stuck in the same pip/tier for over a week

so w/e man, don’t try to discredit me or call me a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t need to be a liar. This does not require courage at all to speak on the forums, and I have no interest whatsoever in discrediting the game – I love the game!

BrotherBelial.3094:

Cynz.9437:

BrotherBelial.3094:

cosmicegg.8502:

This is from higher level diamond and rubys complaining about hour long ques in another thread.

claytonmorby.3751

No I completely agree that it sucks and needs a solution, sorry for being a kitten just my natural state.

I took a break for a day and because it was the same exact 10-12 people for like 12 straight matches in ruby. I think what this season clearly shows is that the divisions themselves need to be reworked. The population can’t support the number of divisions and tiers to have good matchmaking. Also if people like us are on a 12+ game win streak, then kitten maybe we should skip emerald and sapphire. But oh wait that can’t happen cause anet made a hybrid reward track/league instead of a true competitive ladder :p

I guess its not a true ladder after all.

People have been saying this would happen for days. People are getting burned out with losing match after match. My matches are working out about 50/50. But as soon as I lose 3 games I stop playing PvP for the day. No point in wrecking my MMR. If most players are doing this it would thin the numbers. Some might be doing this but I know of people who have just stopped playing ranked PvP as the have been stuck in the same place for days.

I know for there to be winners there has to be losers. But the current system seems to take this to extremes. I read a post yesterday that a player was claiming the couldn’t move out of T1 amber. I’m T4 emerald and I’m being matched up with sapphire players all the time. I don’t expect to be handed anything, but when I’m getting stomped or being the stomper, games are not challenging. They seem to be one-sided slaughters.

I’ve had a few close matches in the last week probably about 7 in total.

just fyi, it is actually normal to face players from higher divisions when you are in t4-5

What when you’ve just broken in to T4? I’ve only seen them in the last 2 days. So I can only go on my own experiences.

Phaeton.9582

Just about everyone has made this point now..

The problem was last season couldn’t be used for placements, as the divisions were meaningless. I hope they implement this going forward

They are still meaningless. play enough and long enough and you’ll keep going to you hit a division that once you can lose T’s you won’t progress anymore if you are not good enough.

total bs. I played 10 hrs a day in solo q and was stuck for 8 days on the same bottom tier of emerald, where I was sunk the first day (when I also played 10 hrs a day)

then a friend finally offered to help. In 20 mins of play I gained a whole tier. How is it possible that I couldn’t break out in over a week, what it only took 20 mins to do when I teamed up w/ another? If I suck, then just having 2 shouldn’t have mattered, as I have been paired on many teams w/ duo pair ups (other ppl). No, I think the difference is, my friend and I are both good players, and we were able to carry the team. One person alone cannot do it.

So w/e. Grinding doesn’t help or get u anywhere.

cosmicegg.8502:

claytonmorby.3751:

I wrote a big long beautiful description since I heard I was quoted from another thread here, but my phone kittened up so it’s gone. >:I

TDLR
I think matchmaking has done a good job seperatinge high tier players.

There aren’t enough pop for divisions.

Placement matches should be a thing

The big issue is rewards, it’s why placement matches haven’t been done I assume.
Anet has tied super mega legendary to this system, which was unnecessary. I would’ve been fine with the icon and title. Exclusive rewards aren’t bad, but for a such a small portion of the pop without something comparable for your average player really sucks.

I agree the mistake for Anet was to not have qualifiers. People fall into the average category for a number of reasons and not all of them are skill related. Time constraints of the player has as much an impact as skill on your rating. When Anet inflated the mmr of lower skilled and newer players and pooled them into the mean with experienced players they diluted the skill level in that pool. Add to that, Anet made that group face better players from a naturally developed skill pool, then this present environment could be the only outcome. This stopped being a true ladder match.

You fail to understand that the league is to grow new ELS talent. Having qualifier’s defeats this. ANet want as big of an uptake in the league as possible.that’s why we have a legendary back item as the carrot. If it was a title or a badge next to your name, most would not care. To have a PvP mode as an ESport is needs to be popular, and have a big player base. With out it, you see the same teams playing each other. They get fed up we get fed up. No one wins.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

total bs. I played 10 hrs a day in solo q and was stuck for 8 days on the same bottom tier of emerald, where I was sunk the first day (when I also played 10 hrs a day)

then a friend finally offered to help. In 20 mins of play I gained a whole tier. How is it possible that I couldn’t break out in over a week, what it only took 20 mins to do when I teamed up w/ another? If I suck, then just having 2 shouldn’t have mattered, as I have been paired on many teams w/ duo pair ups (other ppl). No, I think the difference is, my friend and I are both good players, and we were able to carry the team. One person alone cannot do it.

So w/e. Grinding doesn’t help or get u anywhere.

That is the whole point of S2, glad it took you 10 hours of play for the first week to finally figure it out when people have known this since the first couple days. S1 was the grind ladder and S2 they are trying to change it up so that you don’t need to play 15-20 matches a day to reach legendary.

If you truly were able to climb out of the the hole you were in in 20 minutes by duoing with a friend do that everyday instead of banging your head into a wall for 10 hours a day losing matches. If you play that much every day there certainly has to be portions where you have friends online that you can PvP with.

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Oh yes I do

how would u know? do u live with me?

I spend ten hours a day or more on this game in pvp, which anet can verify easily

I am stuck in the same pip/tier for over a week

so w/e man, don’t try to discredit me or call me a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t need to be a liar. This does not require courage at all to speak on the forums, and I have no interest whatsoever in discrediting the game – I love the game!

youve played ~300 games without moving up a single tier?

the odds of that are bad. even if you have a projected 30% win rate due to low mmr compared to the other players in your division bracket, achieving a win streak of 3 somewhere in those 300 games is practically a certainty. in fact, you would expect to do so about 2 or 3 times. raising your estimated win rate to something more reasonable only decreases the amount of time you would expect to spend trapped in a tier, and as other better players leave your matching range your projected win rate will increase. so either you havent played 10 hours a day for 8 days, or you are so far out of your league that you cannot carry and cannot be carried. since you got to sapphire easily on an alt account, its probably not the latter.

but go ahead, keep asking for pros to carry you. keep crying about being stuck in a place where just playing more inevitably gets you out.

oh and seriously, stop the double posting with your quote and reply stuff.

insanemaniac.2456:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Oh yes I do

how would u know? do u live with me?

I spend ten hours a day or more on this game in pvp, which anet can verify easily

I am stuck in the same pip/tier for over a week

so w/e man, don’t try to discredit me or call me a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t need to be a liar. This does not require courage at all to speak on the forums, and I have no interest whatsoever in discrediting the game – I love the game!

youve played ~300 games without moving up a single tier?

the odds of that are bad. even if you have a projected 30% win rate due to low mmr compared to the other players in your division bracket, achieving a win streak of 3 somewhere in those 300 games is practically a certainty. in fact, you would expect to do so about 2 or 3 times. raising your estimated win rate to something more reasonable only decreases the amount of time you would expect to spend trapped in a tier, and as other better players leave your matching range your projected win rate will increase. so either you havent played 10 hours a day for 8 days, or you are so far out of your league that you cannot carry and cannot be carried. since you got to sapphire easily on an alt account, its probably not the latter.

but go ahead, keep asking for pros to carry you. keep crying about being stuck in a place where just playing more inevitably gets you out.

oh and seriously, stop the double posting with your quote and reply stuff.

That’s right you pros need to be carried not us average players. We should sit back so that you guys get clear of the dust storm on your way to higher tiers no obstacles could be placed in your way you might actually find out you cant carry 4 guys either.

cosmicegg.8502:

insanemaniac.2456:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Oh yes I do

how would u know? do u live with me?

I spend ten hours a day or more on this game in pvp, which anet can verify easily

I am stuck in the same pip/tier for over a week

so w/e man, don’t try to discredit me or call me a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t need to be a liar. This does not require courage at all to speak on the forums, and I have no interest whatsoever in discrediting the game – I love the game!

youve played ~300 games without moving up a single tier?

the odds of that are bad. even if you have a projected 30% win rate due to low mmr compared to the other players in your division bracket, achieving a win streak of 3 somewhere in those 300 games is practically a certainty. in fact, you would expect to do so about 2 or 3 times. raising your estimated win rate to something more reasonable only decreases the amount of time you would expect to spend trapped in a tier, and as other better players leave your matching range your projected win rate will increase. so either you havent played 10 hours a day for 8 days, or you are so far out of your league that you cannot carry and cannot be carried. since you got to sapphire easily on an alt account, its probably not the latter.

but go ahead, keep asking for pros to carry you. keep crying about being stuck in a place where just playing more inevitably gets you out.

oh and seriously, stop the double posting with your quote and reply stuff.

That’s right you pros need to be carried not us average players. We should sit back so that you guys get clear of the dust storm on your way to higher tiers no obstacles could be placed in your way you might actually find out you cant carry 4 guys either.

idk what youre saying but i am not claiming to be a pro.

cosmicegg.8502:

insanemaniac.2456:

Eater of Peeps.9062:

Oh yes I do

how would u know? do u live with me?

I spend ten hours a day or more on this game in pvp, which anet can verify easily

I am stuck in the same pip/tier for over a week

so w/e man, don’t try to discredit me or call me a liar. I am not a liar. I don’t need to be a liar. This does not require courage at all to speak on the forums, and I have no interest whatsoever in discrediting the game – I love the game!

youve played ~300 games without moving up a single tier?

the odds of that are bad. even if you have a projected 30% win rate due to low mmr compared to the other players in your division bracket, achieving a win streak of 3 somewhere in those 300 games is practically a certainty. in fact, you would expect to do so about 2 or 3 times. raising your estimated win rate to something more reasonable only decreases the amount of time you would expect to spend trapped in a tier, and as other better players leave your matching range your projected win rate will increase. so either you havent played 10 hours a day for 8 days, or you are so far out of your league that you cannot carry and cannot be carried. since you got to sapphire easily on an alt account, its probably not the latter.

but go ahead, keep asking for pros to carry you. keep crying about being stuck in a place where just playing more inevitably gets you out.

oh and seriously, stop the double posting with your quote and reply stuff.

That’s right you pros need to be carried not us average players. We should sit back so that you guys get clear of the dust storm on your way to higher tiers no obstacles could be placed in your way you might actually find out you cant carry 4 guys either.

I’m sorry, I’m not a pro, not at all. If you play for 10 hours a day, and you are still stuck.in the same spot, you are doing something wrong. I really don’t see how you can spend all that time and not advance. I’m average at best and the longest I’ve spent in a T is a day, and I play about 4 hours a day Monday -Friday. I don’t really play on the weekends as it’s family time. But I’m still advancing.

It’s a good system, because it’s making people hate current version of “competitive pvp”, making them quit it. Make it bleed, make it shrink, make queues last for 1h+, make pvp population size less than 1 tequatl raid.
When this system will finally die, anet might learn something.

Most “pros” and slightly above average MMR people had to deal with trying to carry people all last season when they were teamed up with people well below their skill level to dwarf their team’s combined MMR to match that of their opponents and guess what, most if not all of them progressed up the ladder just fine.

Most of the pros don’t really need to worry about the match making system used as they will just smash through anyone and everyone with their premades anyways, at least this season they have win streak bonuses to push through a little faster.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

Most “pros” and slightly above average MMR people had to deal with trying to carry people all last season when they were teamed up with people well below their skill level to dwarf their team’s combined MMR to match that of their opponents and guess what, most if not all of them progressed up the ladder just fine.

Most of the pros don’t really need to worry about the match making system used as they will just smash through anyone and everyone with their premades anyways, at least this season they have win streak bonuses to push through a little faster.

Players are still being carried by the team just now its in both directions for some its down and for some its up. But guess what neither one of those directions has anything to do with the players skill.

cosmicegg.8502:

Basket of Boxes.1976:

Most “pros” and slightly above average MMR people had to deal with trying to carry people all last season when they were teamed up with people well below their skill level to dwarf their team’s combined MMR to match that of their opponents and guess what, most if not all of them progressed up the ladder just fine.

Most of the pros don’t really need to worry about the match making system used as they will just smash through anyone and everyone with their premades anyways, at least this season they have win streak bonuses to push through a little faster.

Players are still being carried by the team just now its in both directions for some its down and for some its up. But guess what neither one of those directions has anything to do with the players skill.

I wonder how the team composed of higher MMR players manages to win the match if none of them are more skilled than anyone on the opposing team. Or are you suggesting that one team has 2 good players and 3 bad and the other team has 1 good and 4 bad and the majority of PvPers are terrible?

MMR may not be a perfect reflection of skill but its a better representation than any other system we have had.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

MMR may not be a perfect reflection of skill but its a better representation than any other system we have had.

Right, so I’m similarly skilled to a 5 signet warrior who does not know how to cap? Knowing that the system groups similarly mmr’d players.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

cosmicegg.8502:

Basket of Boxes.1976:

Most “pros” and slightly above average MMR people had to deal with trying to carry people all last season when they were teamed up with people well below their skill level to dwarf their team’s combined MMR to match that of their opponents and guess what, most if not all of them progressed up the ladder just fine.

Most of the pros don’t really need to worry about the match making system used as they will just smash through anyone and everyone with their premades anyways, at least this season they have win streak bonuses to push through a little faster.

Players are still being carried by the team just now its in both directions for some its down and for some its up. But guess what neither one of those directions has anything to do with the players skill.

I wonder how the team composed of higher MMR players manages to win the match if none of them are more skilled than anyone on the opposing team. Or are you suggesting that one team has 2 good players and 3 bad and the other team has 1 good and 4 bad and the majority of PvPers are terrible?

MMR may not be a perfect reflection of skill but its a better representation than any other system we have had.

No, what I’m saying is when they raised the mmr of rank 20 pvp players to average they screwed up mmr pool for the average players. And those lvl 20 players to a great extent have little understanding of a pvp match and can now pull average players down from the true place on the ladder they belong where matchs are fun and competitive. With the new lowered mmr the average player now gets into matchs where they get teamed up with the same low skill level of new players that caused average player to get down there in the first place and that’s in both in ranked and in unranked matchs from then on.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

Give some time for the players with higher MMR to move up and then you can carry a group of 4 bads against 5 bads, at least you should be able to if you are truly a much better player than the people you are complaining about being matched up with 20 times a night.

Been a week now this idea now starts to fall a bit flat.

Basket of Boxes.1976:

That is the whole point of S2, glad it took you 10 hours of play for the first week to finally figure it out when people have known this since the first couple days. S1 was the grind ladder and S2 they are trying to change it up so that you don’t need to play 15-20 matches a day to reach legendary.

I don’t see how the changes to the matchmaking specifically make it not grindy. I agree for your own sanity that after 1-3 losses that you should take a break however its possible that under this system you could keep coming back and have 3 losses day after day and get nowhere and still have your mmr spiral downward. The issue with the system is that opponents aren’t matched based on mmr at all whilst your teammates are.

So I will give you a quick backstory: I smurfed the majority of season 1, then eventally stop playing before season one ended. this basically mean’s my MMR is Below average. (or should be anyway)

This is putting me in the unique position to see both sides of this debate, and let me tell you it is absolutely hilarious down here. I’ll keep this half short and just say that next season you should probably consider removing Profession stacking.