Guild Wars 2

StickerHappy.8052:

2.) Reduce Scrapper sustain.

NO! Scrapper is already too squishy in wvw since latest balance patch. Stop touching other gamemodes.

Then nerf Scrapper cc or damage on hammer if you won’t touch sustain

guildabd.6529:

StickerHappy.8052:

2.) Reduce Scrapper sustain.

NO! Scrapper is already too squishy in wvw since latest balance patch. Stop touching other gamemodes.

Scrapper would be squishy because in this game heavy armor means squishy and light armor means tank.

guildabd.6529:

StickerHappy.8052:

2.) Reduce Scrapper sustain.

NO! Scrapper is already too squishy in wvw since latest balance patch. Stop touching other gamemodes.

No offense but WvW has terrible players, maybe that engie is not utilizing his class very well?

StickerHappy.8052:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

1.) Either lessen projectile hate or Give projectile based classes (ranger and DH) unblockable options for them (not just 1 attack)

2.) Reduce Scrapper sustain.

If you nerf projectile hate…then you need to give away ways to close gap to those professions who can’t, as balance dictates reflect is prevalent on professions that lack close gap on short CD….without reflect, people would just pew pew from safety without you being able to do anything

You want reflect on ele nerfed? I want 15s CD RTl and 25s CD Lightning flash(base CD before trait), instant magnetic grasp and unblockable status on top, lower CD on gale, earthquake…how that sound?

Dude I would take you seriously if you werent so biased.

So take in example DH, an entire elite spec based on LB is completely useless because there is too much reflects that you can spam them

Aftershock
Overload Earth
Magnetic Aura
Swirling Winds

4 Reflects on 1 build. On top of Protection spam and massive sustain. And you are telling me this is okay?

Again do not tell me we can melee, we all know that ele boon farts prot, regen, massive sustain.

Rangers are supposed to be masters of the bow, do you even see LB or SB rangers? NO

Scrapper is the same issue.

Hammer Reflects
Toolbelt Reflects
on top of that massive sustain

So do not tell me to melee a scrapper.

PS: there are only 2 classes in the game that can use SB.

2 classes that can use LB that can actually burst.

What are you so afraid of?

Am I biased?

First fact is I actually play a lv 80 dragon hunter, scrapper and tempest, fully ascended and from PvP to wvw roaming/zerg fights and I have experience on all of them fighting all other specs

Second fact, I use logic and numbers to formulate rightful opinions, I recognize the strengths and weaknesses of a spec..not just the strengths or weaknesses where is convenient

Third fact , Longbow offers a 1200-1500 range attack and you’re asking fully mele specs to lose any resemblance of defense against ranged pressure and these mele specs have no ways to close gap effectively

Think for a moment what would happen to people in wvw playing a scrapper..they’d be pew pew to death from 1500 range ..with nothing they can do about

Realize that a d/f ele lacks ranged combat option, gap closers on a relatively speaking low CD, the focus lacks mobility, escapes and disengage. You just stand there soaking dmg with no way of running aways and pls spare me the usual “you have fgs or LF”..because I’ll reply :" you can wait out for the reflects to expire before retaking your pew pew practice" how that works out for you?

Understand that are other game mode outside conquest, open field modes that already greatly favour ranged combat

Learn that 2 of the total meta builds use a longbow so get your facts straight.

Visualize the difference in sustain between ele and guardian, the first has 1200 healing power and no dmg, the second has traits with huge base healing skills:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monk's_Focus
-0 healing power and can have 2x smite conditions used back to back healing for over 4k healing every 16s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wings_of_Resolve
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purification

Look at the massive healing guardians get without any investment, but hey why don’t we have a scrim, you as ele but no cleric/sage/mender and me on dragon hunter? Show me this sustain of ele…when you have 0 healing power like “meta” DH, it’s a given that a profession with 0 base sustain gains good sustain if it uses a freaking cleric amulet, otherwise the profession would not even be in the game

Envisage the entirety of the game before talking about balance, play all professions and see for yourself what it’s like to play

@Stickerhappy

It’s rather laughable that DH players think that longbow is mandatory in every situation or that reflect is what blocking the spec from performing ( apparently)

The only thing that lower DH efficiency is power burst of which both tempest meta and scrapper are not capable of..in PvP

But again I extend my challenge to you, feel free to test your ele with 0 healing power against my dh..let’s see how far you go and let’s see how truthful are your accusastions

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

1.) Either lessen projectile hate or Give projectile based classes (ranger and DH) unblockable options for them (not just 1 attack)

2.) Reduce Scrapper sustain.

If you nerf projectile hate…then you need to give away ways to close gap to those professions who can’t, as balance dictates reflect is prevalent on professions that lack close gap on short CD….without reflect, people would just pew pew from safety without you being able to do anything

You want reflect on ele nerfed? I want 15s CD RTl and 25s CD Lightning flash(base CD before trait), instant magnetic grasp and unblockable status on top, lower CD on gale, earthquake…how that sound?

Dude I would take you seriously if you werent so biased.

So take in example DH, an entire elite spec based on LB is completely useless because there is too much reflects that you can spam them

Aftershock
Overload Earth
Magnetic Aura
Swirling Winds

4 Reflects on 1 build. On top of Protection spam and massive sustain. And you are telling me this is okay?

Again do not tell me we can melee, we all know that ele boon farts prot, regen, massive sustain.

Rangers are supposed to be masters of the bow, do you even see LB or SB rangers? NO

Scrapper is the same issue.

Hammer Reflects
Toolbelt Reflects
on top of that massive sustain

So do not tell me to melee a scrapper.

PS: there are only 2 classes in the game that can use SB.

2 classes that can use LB that can actually burst.

What are you so afraid of?

Am I biased?

First fact is I actually play a lv 80 dragon hunter, scrapper and tempest, fully ascended and from PvP to wvw roaming/zerg fights and I have experience on all of them fighting all other specs

Second fact, I use logic and numbers to formulate rightful opinions, I recognize the strengths and weaknesses of a spec..not just the strengths or weaknesses where is convenient

Third fact , Longbow offers a 1200-1500 range attack and you’re asking fully mele specs to lose any resemblance of defense against ranged pressure and these mele specs have no ways to close gap effectively

Think for a moment what would happen to people in wvw playing a scrapper..they’d be pew pew to death from 1500 range ..with nothing they can do about

Realize that a d/f ele lacks ranged combat option, gap closers on a relatively speaking low CD, the focus lacks mobility, escapes and disengage. You just stand there soaking dmg with no way of running aways and pls spare me the usual “you have fgs or LF”..because I’ll reply :" you can wait out for the reflects to expire before retaking your pew pew practice" how that works out for you?

Understand that are other game mode outside conquest, open field modes that already greatly favour ranged combat

Learn that 2 of the total meta builds use a longbow so get your facts straight.

Visualize the difference in sustain between ele and guardian, the first has 1200 healing power and no dmg, the second has traits with huge base healing skills:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Monk's_Focus
-0 healing power and can have 2x smite conditions used back to back healing for over 4k healing every 16s

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Wings_of_Resolve
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Purification

Look at the massive healing guardians get without any investment, but hey why don’t we have a scrim, you as ele but no cleric/sage/mender and me on dragon hunter? Show me this sustain of ele…when you have 0 healing power like “meta” DH, it’s a given that a profession with 0 base sustain gains good sustain if it uses a freaking cleric amulet, otherwise the profession would not even be in the game

Envisage the entirety of the game before talking about balance, play all professions and see for yourself what it’s like to play

Uhm, we are talking bout the meta here. ROLES.

Why would you need an ele to have a gap closer on the meta?

No cleric? Dude all the complains here for ele sustain IS CLERIC please do not use arguments outside cleric, who the hell uses maruader or berserk ele in top play?\

Also, where is DH now basing it from your claims? 0 DH in top tier.

Another thing why would you even bring up WvW? This is the PvP forum? LOL.

Another point, the heals that ele gets also is gotten by teammates (auras), So are you arguing the trap heal is better than WtPa? Seriously no comparison.

Invuln on a short sec cd vs DH elite? I have no idea what you are talking about.

TLDR:

Please Provide proof the LB rangers or DH, or hell even SB rangers are viable with all the reflects involved

-Nerf scrapper – no sustain, but dmg. (AA, 4th sheild)
-Rework engi sheild(huge cd reduce, rework trait)
-put in inventions on demand condi removal trait (if you blast water field, or lighting field doesnt matter-remove 2 condis) in same line with bunker down.
-rocket charge: 2xleap, 2x finisher, 25%evade reduction but 2 sec cd reduction. Lower a bit dmg.

I see a lot of people suggesting toning down Warrior sustain but personally I think it’s fine. What’s not fine IMO is high sustain paired with high damage/pressure. I would :

Reduce headbutt damage by 50%. Too much damage for such a high amount of control on such a low CD.

Remove some of the condis on Skull Grinder. Condi bombing is a little too effective with that much sustain.

Increase the CD of Zerker Stance and HS Active to 80s/30s and boost the active heal of HS slightly to compensate. Stacking 25s worth of Resistance is bad enough but boon duration pushes it even further.

Reduce damage of Arc Divider and compensate it with a circular ward like Guardian hammer, but much shorter duration. Right now it’s just Arcing Slice with ridiculous range.

@StickerHappy.8052, Anet by wrecking pvp with visual show off gimmicks, wreks the whole game, WvW is dependent from pvp balance, i think players endi quoting something about WvW just because of that.

What is strong in pvp is even stronger in WvW, usually this is the path of some gimmicks.

The problem with the classes is that Anet added to much to some classes, and that leaves some builds and others with poor to choose from.

And classes need to sacrifice more one thing for another, that would make more viable builds instead a must play X build on Y class, some classes ended with a litle to much..

Dunno what logic process you’re following but..when you talk about sustain/dmg of a profession, you talk about sustain/dmg of that profession across the board

You’re talking about sustain and no support capabilities?! You’re interested in nerfing ele sustain across the board..not its ability to support others, trying to mix the two it’s rather poor taste

As we’re talking about personal sustain and no support, then Purification is vastly superior to Wash the pain away as far as the number goes, ofc all this still at 0 healing power

Nerfing the sustain/dmg of a profession based on one amulet, will affect the whole profession using any amulet..simple logic

Why do you still talk about meta? A d/f is meta because of its ability to sustain against ranged and mele pressure, if that cease to be true…it won’t be meta anymore, with the weapon set now useless, ele would need buffs on other weapon sets aka…gap closer on d/d ^^

If you want a weapon set with no gap closer, escape or disengage to lose also its ability to protect the user against ranged combat..well you may as well delete it

Why I consider WvW? Well….since when anet split balance between pvp and pve?

Finally…as I’ve said it’s rather laughable that most DH players think reflects from a single ele across whole map is what keeping them out of ESL..it goes to show how much most people truly understand about the game

I’ve offered to show you why this is the case, proposed for you to use a non cleric/mender/sage ele and face my DH…a challenge promptly refused by you ( as expected) , I assumed you knew how to play ele..in that case there should have been no problems with my request

From the moment that you’re complaining about the sustain of a full bunker, I’ve thought I’d show you how nerfs to sustain based on a single amulet can affects the whole profession and how pitiful is the ele base sustain respect to a dh

An invulnerability on short CD..that shut down a DH?…really amusing statement

Really the discussion is over, if you DH main users really think that a tempest or scrapper is what undermining you….there is no hope for you

Supreme.3164:

Dunno what logic process you’re following but..when you talk about sustain/dmg of a profession, you talk about sustain/dmg of that profession across the board

You’re talking about sustain and no support capabilities?! You’re interested in nerfing ele sustain across the board..not its ability to support others, trying to mix the two it’s rather poor taste

As we’re talking about personal sustain and no support, then Purification is vastly superior to Wash the pain away as far as the number goes, ofc all this still at 0 healing power

Nerfing the sustain/dmg of a profession based on one amulet, will affect the whole profession using any amulet..simple logic

Why do you still talk about meta? A d/f is meta because of its ability to sustain against ranged and mele pressure, if that cease to be true…it won’t be meta anymore, with the weapon set now useless, ele would need buffs on other weapon sets aka…gap closer on d/d ^^

If you want a weapon set with no gap closer, escape or disengage to lose also its ability to protect the user against ranged combat..well you may as well delete it

Why I consider WvW? Well….since when anet split balance between pvp and pve?

Finally…as I’ve said it’s rather laughable that most DH players think reflects from a single ele across whole map is what keeping them out of ESL..it goes to show how much most people truly understand about the game

I’ve offered to show you why this is the case, proposed for you to use a non cleric/mender/sage ele and face my DH…a challenge promptly refused by you ( as expected) , I assumed you knew how to play ele..in that case there should have been no problems with my request

From the moment that you’re complaining about the sustain of a full bunker, I’ve thought I’d show you how nerfs to sustain based on a single amulet can affects the whole profession and how pitiful is the ele base sustain respect to a dh

An invulnerability on short CD..that shut down a DH?…really amusing statement

Really the discussion is over, if you DH main users really think that a tempest or scrapper is what undermining you….there is no hope for you

1.) Either lessen projectile hate or Give projectile based classes (ranger and DH) unblockable options for them (not just 1 attack)

This was my post. Care to review it again? Never did I mention to nerf eles sustain. Just a teeny bit on the reflects.

Lessen OR.

I only mentioned the sustain part because you seem to get your panties down in a bunch whenever ele is mentioned.

Now is my proposal a balanced one or not?

Supreme.3164:

If you nerf projectile hate…then you need to give away ways to close gap to those professions who can’t, as balance dictates reflect is prevalent on professions that lack close gap on short CD….without reflect, people would just pew pew from safety without you being able to do anything

This was your reply. So meaning you can’t LOS, blind, block, dodge Long Range attacks?
Lets admit it, reflects are okay, but some classes get an abundance of it.

Don’t bring this down to a personal level by passing me as a childish [insert class] blind fanboy.

Balance in a MMO is not all about “I lose to her but I win against you” aka rock-paper-scissor and also I’m not interested in boosting my ego by winning a 1vs1 in an online game

I play for fun and for me fun means having a fair fight!

A d/f ele is like a slow moving fortress, take the fortress aspect away and you’re left with a slow moving weapon set, so there goes my fair fight..where is the fun?

If you want to reduce the abilities of the fortress to defend itself..then you need to give some sort of disengage option, nobody wants to play the part of the target practice..it may be fun for you..certainly not for the receiving end.

I proposed to nerf reflects and buff gap closer..you’ve called me biased, who is the real biased person here?

Accordingly to you, people should play a d/f ele while not being able to escape, disengage or effectively stop ranged pressure..lol what?

Balance means to take away from here and give back there…not just take away, that’s just destroying not balance

Supreme.3164:

Don’t bring this down to a personal level by passing me as a childish [insert class] blind fanboy.

Balance in a MMO is not all about “I lose to her but I win against you” aka rock-paper-scissor and also I’m not interested in boosting my ego by winning a 1vs1 in an online game

I play for fun and for me fun means having a fair fight!

A d/f ele is like a slow moving fortress, take the fortress aspect away and you’re left with a slow moving weapon set, so there goes my fair fight..where is the fun?

If you want to reduce the abilities of the fortress to defend itself..then you need to give some sort of disengage option, nobody wants to play the part of the target practice..it may be fun for you..certainly not for the receiving end.

I proposed to nerf reflects and buff gap closer..you’ve called me biased, who is the real biased person here?

Accordingly to you, people should play a d/f ele while not being able to escape, disengage or effectively stop ranged pressure..lol what?

Balance means to take away from here and give back there…not just take away, that’s just destroying not balance

So basically what you are saying is that you want moving fortress to have disengage options as well right?

Also D/F has swiftness access, Lightning flash, etc. So its not completely slow, compared to let’s say Guardians.

Look dude, Noone is asking TO REMOVE REFLECTS/PROJECTILE HATE, just toning em down. As it stands now, how much reflect/Projectile Hate uptime does the ele meta have?

So with your idea, You want reflects and gap closers at the same time right?

Sacrifices are to be made just look at guardian with mace build? cant escape, low surviability class, low support to zero …. no damage… healing power is a huge mistake in that class, etc.

Do you think it is fun? eles migh have to much… from a guardian prespective.

StickerHappy.8052:

Supreme.3164:

Don’t bring this down to a personal level by passing me as a childish [insert class] blind fanboy.

Balance in a MMO is not all about “I lose to her but I win against you” aka rock-paper-scissor and also I’m not interested in boosting my ego by winning a 1vs1 in an online game

I play for fun and for me fun means having a fair fight!

A d/f ele is like a slow moving fortress, take the fortress aspect away and you’re left with a slow moving weapon set, so there goes my fair fight..where is the fun?

If you want to reduce the abilities of the fortress to defend itself..then you need to give some sort of disengage option, nobody wants to play the part of the target practice..it may be fun for you..certainly not for the receiving end.

I proposed to nerf reflects and buff gap closer..you’ve called me biased, who is the real biased person here?

Accordingly to you, people should play a d/f ele while not being able to escape, disengage or effectively stop ranged pressure..lol what?

Balance means to take away from here and give back there…not just take away, that’s just destroying not balance

So basically what you are saying is that you want moving fortress to have disengage options as well right?

Also D/F has swiftness access, Lightning flash, etc. So its not completely slow, compared to let’s say Guardians.

Look dude, Noone is asking TO REMOVE REFLECTS, just toning em down. As it stands now, how much reflect uptime does the ele meta have?

Look dude on a cleric ele you have 0 dmg so I don’t give a crap about your reflect, I sit on the point and cleave you to death at mele range, what are you gonna do? Your team is without you..leave me the point, ohhh you have a team fight, me being a smart player who knows ele and other classes will just bait all your defenses ( 5s) then call target on you and you die (10s) unless you’re godly on ele…which obviously you’re not

Lighting flash? Look Dude gs leap+wings of resolve and I cover more ground than you, JI and flashing blade..I’ll catch you where the hell will you run?..You can’t…ever!

If you re-read my post I say that removing reflect would remove the fortress status..it’s that simple….

Look duuuude, you certainly can’t play ele and you don’t seem to be that great of a guardian either therefore I end the discussion..cya

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

Supreme.3164:

Don’t bring this down to a personal level by passing me as a childish [insert class] blind fanboy.

Balance in a MMO is not all about “I lose to her but I win against you” aka rock-paper-scissor and also I’m not interested in boosting my ego by winning a 1vs1 in an online game

I play for fun and for me fun means having a fair fight!

A d/f ele is like a slow moving fortress, take the fortress aspect away and you’re left with a slow moving weapon set, so there goes my fair fight..where is the fun?

If you want to reduce the abilities of the fortress to defend itself..then you need to give some sort of disengage option, nobody wants to play the part of the target practice..it may be fun for you..certainly not for the receiving end.

I proposed to nerf reflects and buff gap closer..you’ve called me biased, who is the real biased person here?

Accordingly to you, people should play a d/f ele while not being able to escape, disengage or effectively stop ranged pressure..lol what?

Balance means to take away from here and give back there…not just take away, that’s just destroying not balance

So basically what you are saying is that you want moving fortress to have disengage options as well right?

Also D/F has swiftness access, Lightning flash, etc. So its not completely slow, compared to let’s say Guardians.

Look dude, Noone is asking TO REMOVE REFLECTS, just toning em down. As it stands now, how much reflect uptime does the ele meta have?

Look dude on a cleric ele you have 0 dmg so I don’t give a crap about your reflect, I sit on the point and cleave you to death at mele range, what are you gonna do? Your team is without you..leave me the point, ohhh you have a team fight, me being a smart player who knows ele and other classes will just bait all your defenses ( 5s) then call target on you and you die (10s) unless you’re godly on ele…which obviously you’re not

Lighting flash? Look Dude gs leap+wings of resolve and I cover more ground than you, JI and flashing blade..I’ll catch you where the hell will you run?..You can’t…ever!

If you re-read my post I say that removing reflect would remove the fortress status..it’s that simple….

Look duuuude, you certainly can’t play ele and you don’t seem to be that great of a guardian either therefore I end the discussion..cya

I bolded this part right here. I am gonna ask you again, who is saying that reflects/hate should be removed? NO ONE

Really the overdefensive mechanisms should really stop. This making you an obvious defender of a class.

In the nerf wishlist thread one does not need to suggest buffs in order to balance out said propposed nerfs, especially not in order to appease the sensibilities of other “victimized” players!

If anything Stickers was way to modest. Shaves? Pshhh, hard, earth rending nerfs!

Aeolus.3615:

Sacrifices are to be made just look at guardian with mace build? cant escape, low surviability class, low support to zero …. no damage… healing power is a huge mistake in that class, etc.

Do you think it is fun? eles migh have to much… from a guardian prespective.

Most guardians don’t know how to play the profession outside the usage of true shot and test of faith

The only time when guardians were not whining about ele was during the time only fresh air was available and it was ok for them as they have monk focus trait with meditations which is basically cleric amulet level of heal burst..given at 0 healing power

Sacrifices are to be made kitten right, eles sacrifice everything for that sustain by equipping an amulet + rune, a build which offers 0 dmg. What do guardians sacrifice to get their sustain in a dps spec?…
Your use of “low survivability class” definition is really ambiguous. DH is a dps spec, so you take in consideration other dps specs..no compare a dps to a bunker

For a dps spec, DH is anything but low survivability..but again it depends on the player

StickerHappy.8052:

Supreme.3164:

StickerHappy.8052:

1.) Either lessen projectile hate or Give projectile based classes (ranger and DH) unblockable options for them (not just 1 attack)

2.) Reduce Scrapper sustain.

If you nerf projectile hate…then you need to give away ways to close gap to those professions who can’t, as balance dictates reflect is prevalent on professions that lack close gap on short CD….without reflect, people would just pew pew from safety without you being able to do anything

You want reflect on ele nerfed? I want 15s CD RTl and 25s CD Lightning flash(base CD before trait), instant magnetic grasp and unblockable status on top, lower CD on gale, earthquake…how that sound?

Dude I would take you seriously if you werent so biased.

So take in example DH, an entire elite spec based on LB is completely useless because there is too much reflects that you can spam them

Aftershock
Overload Earth
Magnetic Aura
Swirling Winds

4 Reflects on 1 build. On top of Protection spam and massive sustain. And you are telling me this is okay?

Again do not tell me we can melee, we all know that ele boon farts prot, regen, massive sustain.

Rangers are supposed to be masters of the bow, do you even see LB or SB rangers? NO

Scrapper is the same issue.

Hammer Reflects
Toolbelt Reflects
on top of that massive sustain

So do not tell me to melee a scrapper.

PS: there are only 2 classes in the game that can use SB.

2 classes that can use LB that can actually burst.

What are you so afraid of?

Totally agree: the amount of reflect is out of control.

Oslaf Beinir.5842:

[…]
Scrapper’s Medic Gyro needs 0.5 second cast time since it is a heal skill still.Healing Turret’s cast time was increased so it could be interrupted in time so same treatment maybe?
[…]

Congratulations, you just deleted another healing skill from the engineer profession. The fact it is instacast is the only reason this healing skill gets taken instead of healing turret. Healing turret heals more and cleanses 2 conditions. Medic Gyro can’t compete with that, if you give it an activation time you will never see this skill taken ever again. Engineer needs more viable healing skill options, so please don’t touch this.

Please delete this thread

General:

Resistance works as normal, except condition’s timers don’t decrease until resistance disappears. (You’re still on fire bro.)
While invulnerable, from any skill, you cannot stomp.

• Warrior: Longer cooldowns on berserker stance and head butt.
• Necro: Reduction on how quickly life force generates.
• Ranger: I honestly don’t have any complaints. I think they’re in a mostly good spot.
• Revenant: Sword skill 3 has some kind of counter besides block or evasion.
• Elementalist: Reduction in personal healing/condi cleanse/stunbreaks, increase in output healing (to allies). Reduction in ability to reflect projectiles.
• Engineer: Hammer skill 3 has a much faster cast time, shorter evade time, does less damage. Hammer skill 4 does more damage, blocks for a shorter period of time.
• Thief: I think they’re in a mostly good place.
• Mesmer: Reduce the length of time shield mesmers can block for.
• Guardian: Increase casting time and cooldown of traps.

I honestly think some minor tweaking can get the meta more under control. Reduce some of the tankiness of some builds, and increase the casting times/cooldown times for others.

I know this will never happen. Nerf the power creep, AoE cleave and condi damage and spam. Then nerf healing and sustain to balance it out.

IMO they should have kept conditions as supporting damage and made pierce defense effects (higher damage to high armor enemies) to counter high armor. That way, running glass would still be viable.

Pre-HoT you still somehow needed to hit your skills if you wanted to kill someone, not it’s just 80% AoE spam.

Supreme.3164:

Aeolus.3615:

Sacrifices are to be made just look at guardian with mace build? cant escape, low surviability class, low support to zero …. no damage… healing power is a huge mistake in that class, etc.

Do you think it is fun? eles migh have to much… from a guardian prespective.

Most guardians don’t know how to play the profession outside the usage of true shot and test of faith

The only time when guardians were not whining about ele was during the time only fresh air was available and it was ok for them as they have monk focus trait with meditations which is basically cleric amulet level of heal burst..given at 0 healing power

Sacrifices are to be made kitten right, eles sacrifice everything for that sustain by equipping an amulet + rune, a build which offers 0 dmg. What do guardians sacrifice to get their sustain in a dps spec?…
Your use of “low survivability class” definition is really ambiguous. DH is a dps spec, so you take in consideration other dps specs..no compare a dps to a bunker

For a dps spec, DH is anything but low survivability..but again it depends on the player

I said mace guardian wich would be the defensive version of guardian, thus guardian overall, is in kitten bad place if u talk about Dh trap poopers, stil trash imo, beside a easilly interrupt f3, need to be squishy, predictable, yes that is another story and many dont know how to play it, most drop traps and targets kill themselves…
Still they need to really on meditations for surviability, 0 stats that heals 2k… wichis dumb and was a way to cover how broken this game is when reaches balance.

Comparing guardian with cleric and ele with cleric guardian is a joke, class dont use well the stats compared with ele, so the sacrifice is way to much for nothing.

I would bet eles/tempest have more damage, surviability, support than a defensive guardian, but If guardian is DPS class only, well they need to remove most of the stuff that will never work then… mace, shield, group skills, are useless… other classes do it better.

Darkside.7182:

Ranger HoT pets needs hard nerf. They have insane dps and skills.

They’ve already been nerfed. Repeatedly. They don’t even have good stats to begin with (and let’s just ignore that half the new HoT pets are a dumpster fire on every level), people just can’t handle pets that can actually do their job apparently.

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Darkside.7182:

Ranger HoT pets needs hard nerf. They have insane dps and skills.

They’ve already been nerfed. Repeatedly. They don’t even have good stats to begin with (and let’s just ignore that half the new HoT pets are a dumpster fire on every level), people just can’t handle pets that can actually do their job apparently.

People will place their guilt on some things.

Pets have been nerfed repeatedly, how bout lets buff them? Fire and Electric Wyverns are terrible.

Core Pets are terrible too.

Make all pet skills activate-able instead of on some random AI. Then nerf them by about 10%.

General:
weakness no more 50% chance on critical to be glancing blow. This condition is only punishing heavily ferocity based build, wich are already punished by default by beeing top squishy and not punishing condi dmg at all, and in fact is the reason why spamming is more efficient than timing burst.

Remove Nightmare rune and rune of the krait.

REVENANT
Phase traversal energy cost back before the nerf. Remove the unblockable effect.
Reason: assassin legend should be the only way for revenant to avoid to be outkited, unfortunately now every of the utility of this stance are too high energy consuming, wich result in revenant able only to AA after using them. No class is punished so much after using 2 utility, instead they are still able to burst heavily and use many utility and skills in chains to burst.
UA fixed that it doesnt proc confusion on every hit as it is a multiple time skill activation. UA no more interrupted by stealth (no skill in the game get interrupted by stealth after channeled before the stealth occur), but no more following teleports skills.
Staff 4 cast time decreased to 1/2 seconds. UA ignoring pets, minions, gyro and clones.
Equilibrium dmg output decreased by 50%! stop rewarding autoprocs!!!
Dward stance completely redone, i don’t even know where to start, is so bad…

NECROMANCER
Where to start… is a completely messy class… maybe should just ask to tone down conditions in general but…
Scepter AA no more corrupt boon.
Corrupt boon utility down to 600 range, 20s CD.
Marks no more unblockable.
Skill 5 reaper shroud diminuished aoe, learn to land your skill properly necro!! instead of just spamm easy target aoe!!
Make every animation of necromancer more evident! they look all the same!!!

Scrapper
The healing turret cast time is too low and one of the hardest healing skill to be interrupt wich is the main reason of the scrapper survivability. Increase cast time to 1 sec like every heal skill.
Scrapper has too many reflects.

DRUID
“We heal as one” CD to 25 seconds. Too many boons gived by just a heal skill.
Ancient seeds too low CD considering the amount of daze druid can spam… either reduce daze spam or higher CD to 30 sec
Primal Echoes random daze with no tell need to be removed. Too many random CC autoprocs on the game coming from the nothing. Reduce staff skills is more than enough for an adept trait. Or at least make that daze proc on specific staff skill chain rather than on swap ty.
Gliph of equality is a stupid daze punishing only melee classes. Make it one single target, but on 600 Range.
Ancestral grace no more evading: its already a leap that heals, blast finish and 1200 range, what else you also want it to break stun and remove conditions??? We nerfed Phase traversal and still allowing this?

BERSERKER
I see problems on berserker only coming from the condition dmg in the game overall beeing overtuned, cuz direct dmg warriors are not a problem at all.
However, they did the wrong update do adrenal healt, wich should have done to cleansing ire: adrenal healt should proc on HIT, cleansing ire should proc on USE.
Headbutt CD increased to 25sec. Let’s punish more the warrior spamming this elite by causing the self stun apply always, and not only on hit.

THIEF
Shadow embrace condi removal interval up to 5 seconds. Less passive plz, we want counterplays, not automatic counters!
Impacting Disruption would be fine on any other class but not on a class wich have so many interrupts on the kitten nal. Remove the unblockable effect.
Revert the AA buff, a good thief doesnt need to spam AA. Stop rewarding noob gameplays.
Vault no more evades, increase the radius to 300.
Debilitating Arc: ye we nerfed Risposting shadow, why this skill can be so spammable yet? Increase the initiative cost by 50%.

Supreme.3164:

@Stickerhappy

It’s rather laughable that DH players think that longbow is mandatory in every situation or that reflect is what blocking the spec from performing ( apparently)

The only thing that lower DH efficiency is power burst of which both tempest meta and scrapper are not capable of..in PvP

But again I extend my challenge to you, feel free to test your ele with 0 healing power against my dh..let’s see how far you go and let’s see how truthful are your accusastions

Quite literally one third of the weapon skills guardians have access to are projectiles. Of the weapons used in pvp for offensive builds, 40% are projectiles. Of the two most common weaponsets paired(longbow and sword/focus), 60% are projectiles. Yes, reflect is definitely hurting our performance. The solution though is to change some of guard’s skills to no longer have projectile properties but that’s a topic for another thread.

@Ithilwen: Eles can still maintain that defensive feel if they had more projectile destroys and less reflects. As is they have way too much access to group reflects which should be toned down (rework powerful auras). An ele having bountiful personal reflects is fine for the very reasons you mentioned, but one player being able to completely neutralize (and REFLECT) all projectiles for their entire party for nearly 20+ seconds is a bit over the top.

Shala.8352:

General:
[…]
Scrapper
The healing turret cast time is too low and one of the hardest healing skill to be interrupt wich is the main reason of the scrapper survivability. Increase cast time to 1 sec like every heal skill.
[…]

The cast time got nerfed already. And “1 sec like every heal skill” is a really bad argument.

Healing skills with lower than 1 sec cast time: Litany of Wrath, Purification, Enchanted Daggers, Empowering Misery, Project Tranquility, Facet of Light, Defiant Stance, Blood Reckoning, A.E.D., Medic Gyro, Healing Spring, Withdraw, Channeled Vigor, Arcane Brillance, Well of Eternity, “Your Soul Is Mine!”

16 Healing skills have a cast time lower than 1 sec. For me that are quite alot.

I think this is a troll thread…. seems like it’s meant to get people upset…and it’s working

Ellie.5913:

I think this is a troll thread…. seems like it’s meant to get people upset…and it’s working

You’re so dour. What’s wrong with a thread dedicated to raising qualms with balance?

People are already upset. This thread has nothing to do with it ;D

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ellie.5913:

I think this is a troll thread…. seems like it’s meant to get people upset…and it’s working

You’re so dour. What’s wrong with a thread dedicated to raising qualms with balance?

People are already upset. This thread has nothing to do with it ;D

People are upset because their favorite builds keep getting nerfed to the point that they can’t use them anymore, so of course they are gonna get more upset whenever people suggest they continue getting nerfed, you’re just throwing fuel onto the already blazing inferno. If anything we need buffs not more nerfs. I’d suggest buffing all the core skills & traits that haven’t been used by anyone in ages… and leaving it buffed not continuing with this merry -go-round of oh lets nerf then buff then nerf then buff then nerf even more. And put back all the amulets and runes that got removed over the years so we can have more viable builds.

Viable build?? lol wrong game, just play the class/build that is easier to being carried.

Nerf condis – confusion passive ticks are stupid in pvp, remove it.

Zerker – applies too many condis in too short a period. Skull Grinder applies blind, cripple and cripple. All primal CDs increased to 10s, successfully hitting a target with a primal halves the CD.

Mesmer – Chronophantasma ICD 30s, also F5 doesn’t reset elites.

Druid – Nerf HoT pets, buff other pets.

Ele – reduce aura duration or the aura heal amount. I’d love to make dps ele viable but I can’t really see any way to do so.

Thief – nerf vault damage by 15% and remove evade. Impacting disruption unblockable removed.

Scrapper – I don’t even know where to start nerfing this pos. making them choose between damage or sustain would be good, none of this “look at me, and a tank and a dps” bullkitten. The CD on Hammer 4 doubling as well, because gokitten the freaking reflect spam is stupid.

Dragonhunter – Needs a complete rework along with base guardian. At the moment it’s either over the top and curbstomps newbs or trash vs experienced players. Terrible design.

Necromancer – Boon corrupt on auto…removed.

Revenant – Evade frames removed from staff 5. Shield 5 CD increased by 5 seconds.

Nightmare 6/6 – deleted.

Ellie.5913:

I think this is a troll thread…. seems like it’s meant to get people upset…and it’s working

Thx for the consideration but..don’t worry we all know what this thread is for, we’ve been dealing with trolls for years now

Shala.8352:

General:
weakness no more 50% chance on critical to be glancing blow. This condition is only punishing heavily ferocity based build, wich are already punished by default by beeing top squishy and not punishing condi dmg at all, and in fact is the reason why spamming is more efficient than timing burst.

Remove Nightmare rune and rune of the krait.

REVENANT
Phase traversal energy cost back before the nerf. Remove the unblockable effect.
Reason: assassin legend should be the only way for revenant to avoid to be outkited, unfortunately now every of the utility of this stance are too high energy consuming, wich result in revenant able only to AA after using them. No class is punished so much after using 2 utility, instead they are still able to burst heavily and use many utility and skills in chains to burst.
UA fixed that it doesnt proc confusion on every hit as it is a multiple time skill activation. UA no more interrupted by stealth (no skill in the game get interrupted by stealth after channeled before the stealth occur), but no more following teleports skills.
Staff 4 cast time decreased to 1/2 seconds. UA ignoring pets, minions, gyro and clones.
Equilibrium dmg output decreased by 50%! stop rewarding autoprocs!!!
Dward stance completely redone, i don’t even know where to start, is so bad…

NECROMANCER
Where to start… is a completely messy class… maybe should just ask to tone down conditions in general but…
Scepter AA no more corrupt boon.
Corrupt boon utility down to 600 range, 20s CD.
Marks no more unblockable.
Skill 5 reaper shroud diminuished aoe, learn to land your skill properly necro!! instead of just spamm easy target aoe!!
Make every animation of necromancer more evident! they look all the same!!!

Scrapper
The healing turret cast time is too low and one of the hardest healing skill to be interrupt wich is the main reason of the scrapper survivability. Increase cast time to 1 sec like every heal skill.
Scrapper has too many reflects.

DRUID
“We heal as one” CD to 25 seconds. Too many boons gived by just a heal skill.
Ancient seeds too low CD considering the amount of daze druid can spam… either reduce daze spam or higher CD to 30 sec
Primal Echoes random daze with no tell need to be removed. Too many random CC autoprocs on the game coming from the nothing. Reduce staff skills is more than enough for an adept trait. Or at least make that daze proc on specific staff skill chain rather than on swap ty.
Gliph of equality is a stupid daze punishing only melee classes. Make it one single target, but on 600 Range.
Ancestral grace no more evading: its already a leap that heals, blast finish and 1200 range, what else you also want it to break stun and remove conditions??? We nerfed Phase traversal and still allowing this?

BERSERKER
I see problems on berserker only coming from the condition dmg in the game overall beeing overtuned, cuz direct dmg warriors are not a problem at all.
However, they did the wrong update do adrenal healt, wich should have done to cleansing ire: adrenal healt should proc on HIT, cleansing ire should proc on USE.
Headbutt CD increased to 25sec. Let’s punish more the warrior spamming this elite by causing the self stun apply always, and not only on hit.

THIEF
Shadow embrace condi removal interval up to 5 seconds. Less passive plz, we want counterplays, not automatic counters!
Impacting Disruption would be fine on any other class but not on a class wich have so many interrupts on the kitten nal. Remove the unblockable effect.
Revert the AA buff, a good thief doesnt need to spam AA. Stop rewarding noob gameplays.
Vault no more evades, increase the radius to 300.
Debilitating Arc: ye we nerfed Risposting shadow, why this skill can be so spammable yet? Increase the initiative cost by 50%.

Saying shadows embrace is a problem is funny it’s one condie every 3 seconds, unless a thief wastes everything to stay in stealth they won’t be in stealth all that long since every stealth application is only 3 secs for each activation of stealth, it’s a nerf to one of the most under utilized trait lines Thief have, and it’s not too much of a passive since thieves have to use 6-8 initiative to even get into stealth effectively or by 5 ini and wasting a dodge, or some ridiculous cd utilities, one of which will cause self revealed if the thief leaves the field.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Silberfederling.9302:

Remember, you have 6 ish hours until the mods realize they should at the attatchment. Black out the Name in that time.

Oh fine, here you go then XD

I’d like to retract any former statements about Rev. Rev isnt OP. In fact it’s probably UP.

Instead I’d like to nerf forum salt. It’s causing so many tears they’re overflowing into PM’s.

“rev dont need any nerf in anyway whatsoever” LOL this guy
Revenants have:

Just about same single target dmg as thief, with similar mobility;
Easy access to boons at any time, self and AoE;
Plenty cc’s;
Plenty dmg mitigation skills (blocks/blinds/evades);
2 healing skills;
Cleave potential;
Can easily disengage from fights;

NAHHHHH, LETS BUFF THEM SOME MORE

Thank god Anet doesn’t listen to you people.

Ellie.5913:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ellie.5913:

I think this is a troll thread…. seems like it’s meant to get people upset…and it’s working

You’re so dour. What’s wrong with a thread dedicated to raising qualms with balance?

People are already upset. This thread has nothing to do with it ;D

People are upset because their favorite builds keep getting nerfed to the point that they can’t use them anymore, so of course they are gonna get more upset whenever people suggest they continue getting nerfed, you’re just throwing fuel onto the already blazing inferno. If anything we need buffs not more nerfs. I’d suggest buffing all the core skills & traits that haven’t been used by anyone in ages… and leaving it buffed not continuing with this merry -go-round of oh lets nerf then buff then nerf then buff then nerf even more. And put back all the amulets and runes that got removed over the years so we can have more viable builds.

More viable builds? So you really think anyone would run anything else than durability runes revs, bunker sentinels mesmer, and healing ele if those amulets and runes came back? Thats just silly.

Ellie.5913:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ellie.5913:

I think this is a troll thread…. seems like it’s meant to get people upset…and it’s working

You’re so dour. What’s wrong with a thread dedicated to raising qualms with balance?

People are already upset. This thread has nothing to do with it ;D

People are upset because their favorite builds keep getting nerfed to the point that they can’t use them anymore, so of course they are gonna get more upset whenever people suggest they continue getting nerfed, you’re just throwing fuel onto the already blazing inferno. If anything we need buffs not more nerfs. I’d suggest buffing all the core skills & traits that haven’t been used by anyone in ages… and leaving it buffed not continuing with this merry -go-round of oh lets nerf then buff then nerf then buff then nerf even more. And put back all the amulets and runes that got removed over the years so we can have more viable builds.

That and people get upset when there are players better than them playing builds in a synergistic way. For example, I main engineer, and as such I have played both condi and scrapper.

The nerfs people suggest for both condi’s and scrapper would make engineer completely useless in pvp except for tanks, which is the state of affairs elementalist seems to find itself in. Small changes have large consequences for gameplay, but people are too eager to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Ideally, more counterplay is better than nerfing everything.

Gigiobalt.7625:

Ellie.5913:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Ellie.5913:

I think this is a troll thread…. seems like it’s meant to get people upset…and it’s working

You’re so dour. What’s wrong with a thread dedicated to raising qualms with balance?

People are already upset. This thread has nothing to do with it ;D

People are upset because their favorite builds keep getting nerfed to the point that they can’t use them anymore, so of course they are gonna get more upset whenever people suggest they continue getting nerfed, you’re just throwing fuel onto the already blazing inferno. If anything we need buffs not more nerfs. I’d suggest buffing all the core skills & traits that haven’t been used by anyone in ages… and leaving it buffed not continuing with this merry -go-round of oh lets nerf then buff then nerf then buff then nerf even more. And put back all the amulets and runes that got removed over the years so we can have more viable builds.

More viable builds? So you really think anyone would run anything else than durability runes revs, bunker sentinels mesmer, and healing ele if those amulets and runes came back? Thats just silly.

Yea I really do think people would run a LOT of different builds if we got every skill, trait, weapon, rune and amulet back that was nerfed into non existence, it’s called options, something we don’t have a lot of anymore thanks to nerfs and removals. I for 1 don’t like being forced into playing something that I wouldn’t normally play JUST because it’s the only thing that’s strong enough to play.

Ubik.8315:

Scrapper – I don’t even know where to start nerfing this pos. making them choose between damage or sustain would be good, none of this “look at me, and a tank and a dps” bullkitten. The CD on Hammer 4 doubling as well, because gokitten the freaking reflect spam is stupid.

Totally agree, its amazing how stuff like this makes it to live. Good for pve I guess?

What some people have already said, and partly the reason why for the most part I had moved on from gw2. This whole community is a buncha of whiney, hand holding bunche of whiners I have ever seen. What’s worse is the developers will listen to everything the town cryers say. As again people have mentioned, none of you all will be satisfied until EVERYTHING is nerfed into the ground. People complain of the lack of build diversity yet don’t understand that it was their or their own peers constant belly aching that has made the pvp scene what it is today. Anet’s desire to please everyone. Honestly alot of things before all this nonsensical kitten could have been left alone. Yet Anet wants to please everyone, but in the pleasing lose people anyway who weren’t even complaining about alot of things to begin with. And it will continue until PVP is nerfed into the ground.

Crimson Shi.5047:

What some people have already said, and partly the reason why for the most part I had moved on from gw2. This whole community is a buncha of whiney, hand holding bunche of whiners I have ever seen. What’s worse is the developers will listen to everything the town cryers say. As again people have mentioned, none of you all will be satisfied until EVERYTHING is nerfed into the ground. People complain of the lack of build diversity yet don’t understand that it was their or their own peers constant belly aching that has made the pvp scene what it is today. Anet’s desire to please everyone. Honestly alot of things before all this nonsensical kitten could have been left alone. Yet Anet wants to please everyone, but in the pleasing lose people anyway who weren’t even complaining about alot of things to begin with. And it will continue until PVP is nerfed into the ground.

Couldn’t have said it better. What this game needs is dev’s who know how to make a game and not listen to whiners that just gets a game destroyed. It was a million times better in the beginning than it is now, never close to as fun as gw1 pvp for various reasons, but a WHOLE lot better than it is currently.

Ellie.5913:

Crimson Shi.5047:

What some people have already said, and partly the reason why for the most part I had moved on from gw2. This whole community is a buncha of whiney, hand holding bunche of whiners I have ever seen. What’s worse is the developers will listen to everything the town cryers say. As again people have mentioned, none of you all will be satisfied until EVERYTHING is nerfed into the ground. People complain of the lack of build diversity yet don’t understand that it was their or their own peers constant belly aching that has made the pvp scene what it is today. Anet’s desire to please everyone. Honestly alot of things before all this nonsensical kitten could have been left alone. Yet Anet wants to please everyone, but in the pleasing lose people anyway who weren’t even complaining about alot of things to begin with. And it will continue until PVP is nerfed into the ground.

Couldn’t have said it better. What this game needs is dev’s who know how to make a game and not listen to whiners that just gets a game destroyed. It was a million times better in the beginning than it is now, never close to as fun as gw1 pvp for various reasons, but a WHOLE lot better than it is currently.

So much this, no doubt that this game has been getting worse as time passes thanks to the people complaining and asking for nerfs to everything since always.

XxsdgxX.8109:

Ellie.5913:

Crimson Shi.5047:

What some people have already said, and partly the reason why for the most part I had moved on from gw2. This whole community is a buncha of whiney, hand holding bunche of whiners I have ever seen. What’s worse is the developers will listen to everything the town cryers say. As again people have mentioned, none of you all will be satisfied until EVERYTHING is nerfed into the ground. People complain of the lack of build diversity yet don’t understand that it was their or their own peers constant belly aching that has made the pvp scene what it is today. Anet’s desire to please everyone. Honestly alot of things before all this nonsensical kitten could have been left alone. Yet Anet wants to please everyone, but in the pleasing lose people anyway who weren’t even complaining about alot of things to begin with. And it will continue until PVP is nerfed into the ground.

Couldn’t have said it better. What this game needs is dev’s who know how to make a game and not listen to whiners that just gets a game destroyed. It was a million times better in the beginning than it is now, never close to as fun as gw1 pvp for various reasons, but a WHOLE lot better than it is currently.

So much this, no doubt that this game has been getting worse as time passes thanks to the people complaining and asking for nerfs to everything since always.

I’d say it’s the internal structure of Anet and NCsoft myself. Bad tree, bad fruit. But sure, blame the consumers :D

People hating on a build that put all of its stats, traits, and utilities into supporting without suggesting any balance compensation on other areas are just plain stupid. Sure, Tempest heals and reflects needs to be toned down but not without proper compensation on other areas.

It’s sad that most people just say nerf this, nerf that. Go play Ele and see how much sustain it has if not fully traited for it. Do we really want to see Eles in the dumps for another whole year like they did pre-celestial amulet?

Crimson Shi.5047:

What some people have already said, and partly the reason why for the most part I had moved on from gw2. This whole community is a buncha of whiney, hand holding bunche of whiners I have ever seen. What’s worse is the developers will listen to everything the town cryers say. As again people have mentioned, none of you all will be satisfied until EVERYTHING is nerfed into the ground. People complain of the lack of build diversity yet don’t understand that it was their or their own peers constant belly aching that has made the pvp scene what it is today. Anet’s desire to please everyone. Honestly alot of things before all this nonsensical kitten could have been left alone. Yet Anet wants to please everyone, but in the pleasing lose people anyway who weren’t even complaining about alot of things to begin with. And it will continue until PVP is nerfed into the ground.

Good logic there bro- they nerfed everything by making a bunch of OP traitlines/traits and reduced the skill involved in the game by introducing even more aoe spam and lots of powerful auto-proc traits, just like everyone was asking for.