Guild Wars 2

One month should be plenty, anything more than that becomes a grind and divisions get devalued to oblivion. I see more and more “legendaries” that were stuck in the mid tiers for more than a month now. The length is a complete joke compared to the number of games you need to prove your skill level.

Understand the complaint but we already have a bunch of time between seasons with nothing do but awful unranked matches with the seasons as long as they are currently. If they were to shorten them they need to come up with something better for between seasons. Also, some people don’t play as much as other people do.

Lol this one is funny, it was bound to hppen with this matchmaking. I mean leet0 made it to legebdary in 22 hours. So what were you expecting?? “Easy come, easy go”. Your post is proof that this season has failed.

The season have to be longer not shorter.

It’s quite the opposite. The longer the season, the longer the time you have to be placed where you really belong to because you can play enough games for the system gather more data and place you in the right place. Many people can’t play all day every single day, so the longer the season, more time for the person to be able to play enough matches do place where the truly belongs. And people actually can improve as they play, so if they didn’t start playing PvP being a player worth of a diamond, for example, with more matches he can actually improve his skill and also improve his placement.

The problem only comes in the GW2 system, where there’s a bunch of safety nets for pips. But in any MMR system, the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

lmperdigao.2567:

It’s quite the opposite. The longer the season, the longer the time you have to be placed where you really belong to because you can play enough games for the system gather more data and place you in the right place. Many people can’t play all day every single day, so the longer the season, more time for the person to be able to play enough matches do place where the truly belongs. And people actually can improve as they play, so if they didn’t start playing PvP being a player worth of a diamond, for example, with more matches he can actually improve his skill and also improve his placement.

The problem only comes in the GW2 system, where there’s a bunch of safety nets for pips. But in any MMR system, the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

This pretty much.

lmperdigao.2567:

the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

That would be true if there were more divisions, 6 divisions with safety nets is WAY to easy to grind through. You might belong to ruby and grind two months playing 10 games a day. Someone’s bound to get a lucky streak and reach the next safety net.

To the people not wanting to return to unranked the solution is simple. Make more divisions or more frequent seasons. (or remove the safety nets but then casuals will complain forever)

Burn.5401:

lmperdigao.2567:

the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

That would be true if there were more divisions, 6 divisions with safety nets is WAY to easy to grind through. You might belong to ruby and grind two months playing 10 games a day. Someone’s bound to get a lucky streak and reach the next safety net.

To the people not wanting to return to unranked the solution is simple. Make more divisions or more frequent seasons. (or remove the safety nets but then casuals will complain forever)

Ummm, no that would be true if placed MMR vs MMR not MMR vs Random MMR.

The way you want it, reduce leagues to 1-2 weeks. That way only the best would be in legendary. Well, not the best but people with best MMR around.

Burn.5401:

lmperdigao.2567:

the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

That would be true if there were more divisions, 6 divisions with safety nets is WAY to easy to grind through. You might belong to ruby and grind two months playing 10 games a day. Someone’s bound to get a lucky streak and reach the next safety net.

To the people not wanting to return to unranked the solution is simple. Make more divisions or more frequent seasons. (or remove the safety nets but then casuals will complain forever)

In a competitve system, you can’t go from A to be B by playing ten games daily unless you disn’t belong in A or B. It takes years for new players/experienced players to get out of bronze/silver or gold respectively because of the competitive nature of their league (I. E. 50 vs 50). And also, there are prestige for that reason ×1 ×2 ×3 ×4 for those of you who are bored or want to progress further than legendary ×0/1.

No, the division should be longer. Returning to unrank has never been an issue for me, like someone stated above, some folks have jobs, family, etc… they need more time to get where “they belong” as you guys call it. This season hasn’t been thrilling to most player I know BECAUSE IT’S UNCOMPETITIVE, I. E ask java the next time you ll see him in game. Noone durst to advance your idea last season for a reason. Because games were close, people were enjoying/competing in their games, the current system is so random that you could be competiting ( 5 vs 5) or getting stomped ( 1 vs 10) or get lucky ( 10 vs 1). Based on your post, I infer you are experiencing a combination of the former and/or mostly the latter.

Fyi: you can always make a f2p account or wait for season 3. My point, the season have to be LONGER.

At the beginning of a season, only the guild league ladder should be reset as to work as an ESL qualifier.

Keep all MMRs and division placement intact but change the following:

• Remove the pip gain entirely. System is no good for the game.
• Remove division segregation concerning how match making works. Only MMR should deal with match making.
• Change division tags “amber, ruby, legend” so that it directly indicates actual MMR. It goes up when MMR goes up and goes down when MMR goes down.
• Overhaul reward system to accommodate this.

Fivedawgs.4267, I fail to understand your reasoning. My complaint is that the league is too short taking the way it works now into account. The way it works is that you are being rewarded for lucky streaks and NOT being punished for loss streaks. Simple math will show you that you need below 50% win ratio to progress and combined with the number of pips you need to reach the final division that does not equal many games to even the least active players. That results in people from ALL kinds of skill ranges progressing where they don’t belong which means more and more awful games. And no prestige doesn’t work either, because the system doesn’t even take it into account when matching players. (eg. a prestige 1 person can get matches with/versus a prestige 100 person)

Raek.8504, that’s somewhat the idea. What’s the point of legendary if anyone and his mother can reach it and the skill range of that division is enormous? It becomes devalued and better players are forced to play with worse players – vice versa. I want to be able to see a player’s badge and say “hmm this guy is X division, he must be pretty good”. That’s not the case sadly.

Not after this mess of a season we had, either give people placement, or reset the MMR. There has to be an MMR reset, or placement. And the placement should be based on emerald tier, if you win all of your placement games = last tier of emerald, if you lose one or two = fourth tier of emerald and …

Needless to say, the MMR algorithm needs to be changed.

Burn.5401:

Fivedawgs.4267, I fail to understand your reasoning. My complaint is that the league is too short (I belive you meant long) aking the way it works now into account. The way it works is that you are being rewarded for lucky streaks and NOT being punished for loss streaks. Simple math will show you that you need below 50% win ratio to progress and combined with the number of pips you need to reach the final division that does not equal many games to even the least active players. That results in people from ALL kinds of skill ranges progressing where they don’t belong which means more and more awful games. And no prestige doesn’t work either, because the system doesn’t even take it into account when matching players. (eg. a prestige 1 person can get matches with/versus a prestige 100 person)

Raek.8504, that’s somewhat the idea. What’s the point of legendary if anyone and his mother can reach it and the skill range of that division is enormous? It becomes devalued and better players are forced to play with worse players – vice versa. I want to able to see a player’s badge and say “hmm this guy is X division, he must be pretty good”. That’s not the case sadly.

Trust me I understand your argument, hence why my first post was more or less about the MMR algorithm. And yes, I have said it before, with the CURRENT MMR we will end up with more legendary because having a high MMR = 90% garantee progression. And I said it before, legendary ×4 would look like the new legendary, legendary x3 like diamond , legendary X2 like ruby. I said what you said above, a week into the season. So, it was bound to happen.

So, I know the problems, however shortening the season wont help because those issues are caused by the current MMR algorithm not the length of the season. Even if the season was 3 month long and that duo Q was disabled, some streamers wouldn’t reach legendary in that time period, with a competitve ladder.

Burn.5401:

Raek.8504, that’s somewhat the idea. What’s the point of legendary if anyone and his mother can reach it and the skill range of that division is enormous? It becomes devalued and better players are forced to play with worse players – vice versa. I want to be able to see a player’s badge and say “hmm this guy is X division, he must be pretty good”. That’s not the case sadly.

Yes, that was true around 2-3 weeks into the league, when Div=Skill. Now it’s not. This system will never create quality matches, the only thing i really want from Match Making system, well it will, but only on the very top for very short time period.

And yeah there is no solutions which will satisfy ever the top end of the system. Queue times, quality matches, etc.

The only way they can make it last and be more accurate on skill level/devision placement is placing MMR vs MMR. But, i m afraid that will never happen because of queue times and PvP population being small. So your solution is more or less acceptable if Anet decide the system to remain in the state it is right now. But i guess 1 month is still to much in that sense.

I agree with this, i also think its way too long the season . Players get to legendary in 2-3 weeks.
Then what? Need to wait another 6 weeks for the rest of the players to reach it also ?
Season should be 1 month and thats it.
Insted of 4 season we could get like 6-7 seasons maybe ?

Prince Vingador.8067:

I agree with this, i also think its way too long the season . Players get to legendary in 2-3 weeks.
Then what? Need to wait another 6 weeks for the rest of the players to reach it also ?
Season should be 1 month and thats it.
Insted of 4 season we could get like 6-7 seasons maybe ?

first they need to ban you.

So i see i cant post , otherwise all treads will end up about me
How about u stick to the topic?

Burn.5401:

One month should be plenty, anything more than that becomes a grind and divisions get devalued to oblivion. I see more and more “legendaries” that were stuck in the mid tiers for more than a month now. The length is a complete joke compared to the number of games you need to prove your skill level.

You really don’t get the point of seasons. They are not to prove anything. It’s easy to get to legendary using one of the broken specs.

The reason that seasons are in place is to get people to play more. That’s the only measure of success.

Burn.5401:

One month should be plenty, anything more than that becomes a grind and divisions get devalued to oblivion. I see more and more “legendaries” that were stuck in the mid tiers for more than a month now. The length is a complete joke compared to the number of games you need to prove your skill level.

Divisions are meant to be grinded, in my opnion the seasons don’t last long enough and i’ve been legendary for over a month now. All it comes down to is who cares enough \ is able to play more then others when a season comes out, it doesn’t get that much easier over time.

League of Legends has never ending seasons, might be worth looking into their division system? Although I do agree that the game is better balanced and there is no “class stacking” so even if some professions are overpowered and completely broken, it’s just a single person on only one of the teams using it.

Back to guild wars 2, if it was the same way here, everyone could deal with or outrotate a single reaper. However stacking multiple condi pleb necros and being forced to teamfight them is cancer.

lmperdigao.2567:

It’s quite the opposite. The longer the season, the longer the time you have to be placed where you really belong to because you can play enough games for the system gather more data and place you in the right place.

Erm, no, if it was an actual real league system where there were limits to how many people could reach a division with promotion/demotion, then yeah, you would be right, but it isn’t.

So what happens is this, when the best players get to say diamond first (let’s just pretend this is case for the sake of simplicity), they then move to legend, but then they’ve moved out of diamond which makes it easier for the next tier of players who weren’t quite as good to then move out of diamond to legendary, and then when they’ve gone, the next tier down after that and so on.

style.6173:

Burn.5401:

One month should be plenty, anything more than that becomes a grind and divisions get devalued to oblivion. I see more and more “legendaries” that were stuck in the mid tiers for more than a month now. The length is a complete joke compared to the number of games you need to prove your skill level.

You really don’t get the point of seasons. They are not to prove anything. It’s easy to get to legendary using one of the broken specs.

The reason that seasons are in place is to get people to play more. That’s the only measure of success.

Opinions. I’ve seen plenty of “meta broken” specced players that couldn’t get out of emerald for weeks. The point is that many people want the league TO BE a measure of success.

Ninski.5680:

Divisions are meant to be grinded, in my opnion the seasons don’t last long enough and i’ve been legendary for over a month now. All it comes down to is who cares enough \ is able to play more then others when a season comes out, it doesn’t get that much easier over time.

Completely disagree. It gets easier over time because the better players stop playing and the opposition goes down.

Burn.5401:

One month should be plenty, anything more than that becomes a grind and divisions get devalued to oblivion. I see more and more “legendaries” that were stuck in the mid tiers for more than a month now. The length is a complete joke compared to the number of games you need to prove your skill level.

100% true. approved

Lowering the season length doesn’t make the system more accurate, all it does is make it so everyone ends up progressing less.

Now you might say that we don’t have enough divisions for the season length, and at which point you’d be right. However I will also point out that if you add more divisions (and thus make top division more prestigious) you also end up killing queue times at those high divisions even more because the pool would be lower.

And for the record if you want a system that is 100% skill representative you actually want a system that works as follows:
-no MMR, teams are selected 100% randomly* from players within the division
-tier and pip loss occurs at all divisions
-all divisions have the same number of pips
-season length is infinite.
-infinite number of divisions

Now there are some shortcomings with this system
-Takes enormous numbers of matches for players to reach placement representative of their skill.
-Match quality is going to be absolute kitten for several months until the division skill levels average out. (the QQ will be insane)
-infinite divisions would screw over the absolute best players because they would eventually hit the point where they can no longer get any matches.

The second point is why no game ever uses this system, since players would rage quit long before they ever reached their skill point.

*The only thing more accurate than totally random teams is round robin where everyone plays with and against everyone else a equal number of times. However Round Robin is impossible to do in a game because people all play at different times and for different lengths.
*the reason random team selection is more fair is because only the 4 members of your team will be random, while all 5 of your opponents will be. So assuming you’re above the division’s skill level you should have a average winrate above 50% and therefore advance.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Lol this one is funny, it was bound to hppen with this matchmaking. I mean leet0 made it to legebdary in 22 hours. So what were you expecting?? “Easy come, easy go”. Your post is proof that this season has failed.

The season have to be longer not shorter.

How does one get to legendary in 22 hours? They must win absolutely every match?

I know some are more skilled in pvp than others, but there’s other factors, like teams, good teams, bad teams … etc.

So whats your point ? @Electra? I am assuming you know how the algorithm works.

lmperdigao.2567:

It’s quite the opposite. The longer the season, the longer the time you have to be placed where you really belong to because you can play enough games for the system gather more data and place you in the right place. Many people can’t play all day every single day, so the longer the season, more time for the person to be able to play enough matches do place where the truly belongs. And people actually can improve as they play, so if they didn’t start playing PvP being a player worth of a diamond, for example, with more matches he can actually improve his skill and also improve his placement.

The problem only comes in the GW2 system, where there’s a bunch of safety nets for pips. But in any MMR system, the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

This would be the case if ppl are able to lose divisions.

In the current system it just means the % of legendary players get higher and higher the longer it lasts.

lmperdigao.2567:

It’s quite the opposite. The longer the season, the longer the time you have to be placed where you really belong to because you can play enough games for the system gather more data and place you in the right place. Many people can’t play all day every single day, so the longer the season, more time for the person to be able to play enough matches do place where the truly belongs. And people actually can improve as they play, so if they didn’t start playing PvP being a player worth of a diamond, for example, with more matches he can actually improve his skill and also improve his placement.

The problem only comes in the GW2 system, where there’s a bunch of safety nets for pips. But in any MMR system, the longer the season (and the bigger the amount of games played), the more accurate the system gets.

Sure, this would make sense if the matchmaker was actually working, but it is a load of garbage at the moment since it practically pre-determines which team is going to win by putting all the better players in it so the games end up being total blowouts… If the matchmaker would actually divide the players up (like 1-2-2-2-2-1 based on rank) and create a balanced game then your point would be valid, at the state of the current algorithm, it is not….
This is exactlty the reson I have given up on ranked and I’d guess 90% of ppl have done the same, the matches are crap, 9 out of 10 games are total BS, unplayable.
I would love to play still even if I dont progress, because it is supposed to give me good encounters that are ön my level" but it doesnt….

Shorter seasons aren’t the solution to what you are asking for; a true MMR system is.

The division system doesn’t allow for enough regression, aka, you can’t lose Divisions. At the end of the day, it’s just another reward track, with the catch that only only progress if you win more than you lose.

What the game really needs is a true MMR ranking system for the competitive players with exclusive, non-advantageous rewarding for prestigious rating/tier achievements, with a secondary grind based reward system that provides the incentive it needs to in order to retain a casual community and any sort of semblance of player population (aka, you want people to keep playing, and new players to get into PvP, and encourage them to continue playing).

Of course, this is highly unlikely, and what ANet will end up doing is doubling down on their current system, which only gives pieces of what each segment of the player population wants; leaving everybody dissatisfied.

I do think that there’s a problem with the seasons; personally my energy runs out about halfway through. It’s entirely likely it’s just me though.

I think maybe look at Hearthstone or Path of Exile seasons to think about what sort of duration it should be. I think longer seasons could work if there were more of a transition from an active, frantic meta into a settled one, if balance changes were delivered at the beginning of a season rather than months before it, allowing that meta to be created and to rest.

Shorter Seasons dont really solve any problems to be honest. If we would have more seasons (arround 8?) that are all only 1 month, alot of people will continue to get unbalanced match ups. Good players might rise fast but mostly because they stomp the bad ones. Bad players would get stomped every season.

Its also bad for those people who cant play (multiple games) every day. I would be such an example i didnt have much time to play this season but when i played i mostly got win streaks and so i got to legend without any problems. With more shorter seasons i would most of the time be in a division where i dont deserve to be. I think longer seasons with more divisions and less safety nets would be beneficient for the game.

Totally disagree.

If you shorten the seasons, then your legendaries are just the good players that have enough free time to grind out the games before the season ends.

Long seasons allow for good players that can’t play every day to still get the rank they still deserve.

They aren’t long at all, in fact I think they are just fine. What’s not right is the crappy “balancing” and lack there of afterwards which results in further unbalancing cause the players have given up since they are fed up with garbage.

jcbroe.4329:

Shorter seasons aren’t the solution to what you are asking for; a true MMR system is.

The division system doesn’t allow for enough regression, aka, you can’t lose Divisions. At the end of the day, it’s just another reward track, with the catch that only only progress if you win more than you lose.

What the game really needs is a true MMR ranking system for the competitive players with exclusive, non-advantageous rewarding for prestigious rating/tier achievements, with a secondary grind based reward system that provides the incentive it needs to in order to retain a casual community and any sort of semblance of player population (aka, you want people to keep playing, and new players to get into PvP, and encourage them to continue playing).

Of course, this is highly unlikely, and what ANet will end up doing is doubling down on their current system, which only gives pieces of what each segment of the player population wants; leaving everybody dissatisfied.

I agree, divisions need to lose ranks, maybe not amber or emerald, but the further you go into the ranks yes. It’s been apparent this season, ruby and diamond players who absolutely are complete trash, they should be back in sapphire, that should be the average, the last 3 tiers should be about more competitive players. I’ve stopped pvping in this game (i’ve stopped playing it actually all together), but I do hope this changes. Most ladder style systems have you drop divisions if you suck enough. Same thing should happen in this game.