Guild Wars 2

The reason that this map is not liked is because it inherently favors those classes that have higher amounts of CC to make opponents fall to insta-death. The map also encourages the snowball effect (the winning team keeps winning). You could be winning a fight over a point but one misplaced step or lack of stability boon and bam, you lose.

My suggestion is to completely redesign the whole map.

1. Take all 3 objectives and place them up and above (but not so far above that they cause death if pushed off). Each pad should be a hexagon shape with jump pads on 3 of the sides.

2. In between each jump pad, use the glass panels and multi-level elements (however, don’t place them so close to the hexagon pads that you can fall onto them directly from the hexagon pad).

3. Take the cannon and put at another area above the 3 jump pads and accessible from a central portal arena area between the 3 pads. Allow the cannon to hit every part of the map (non-starter areas). Change the power of the cannon (rate of fire) based on how many points you have control of (ie. rate of fire 7s if you control all three points, 5s if you control 2 points , 3s if you control 1 point, 1s if you control no points)

things i’d like to see in skyhammer.

1. Introduce a 4th small Conquest node on the Hammer itself and remove half the glass panels on the hammer platform , to encourage people to fight/use the hammer while defending rather than camping on the hammer.

2. redesgin the Arches on skyhammer far to the side these are Glitchy to jump onto and are just Not used unless you are ranged , redesgin this into a Skywalk platform simlair to that Sitting above Node B or Redesgin into a Rasied platform and move node B to that platform so players can activitly do defence vs the portal to the hammer access , this means Ranged and CC can be used rather than LOS’ed while trying to contest node B in its current location , pretty much means there is no preventing players from Easy access to the hammer platform , it should be somthing that you fight over in the open map rather than on the platform.

if you go by that desgin , the team that controls the mid ground also have a stronger chance to use the hammer while Contesting node B.

3. continued from node B and point 2 , to avoid all 3 nodes being on one side of the map Move 1 Node underground (currently the jump pad underneth Node B’s current location or Move Node A and C to a more side/Centeral postion , this gives each Spawn a close/easly defended node and enforces Control of the hammer/ fighting over a Node B (mentioned in point 2) by fighting over a redesgined node B also prevents Hammer abuse as zerging onto the hammer platform gives the opposing team easy quick decap for a far node and easy contesting / defence of a repostioned node B on the higher ground. but on the flip side you ether give up the hammer and fight or risk more 3vs5’s as one person decaps a more Side/centeral A and C.

4. introduce a second way into the skyhammer platform by jumping pad , lower the skyhammer out of the sky so it can be reached by portal or Jumping pad.

Artaz.3819:

Allow the cannon to hit every part of the map (non-starter areas). Change the power of the cannon (rate of fire) based on how many points you have control of (ie. rate of fire 7s if you control all three points, 5s if you control 2 points , 3s if you control 1 point, 1s if you control no points)

I like this especially, the refire rates are debatable, but this might add some tactics to the equasion. It adds a comback possibility and quite some combat dynamics when you implement this well.

Whatever you do, don’t remove the panels around A and C. However, it needs to be more obvious that they are about to break. Having the panels turn red before they break for instance would be great. Having them break only by cannon fire is also great as it encourages more teamwork.

Jump pads definitely need work. If you hae any sort of lag you could be spending forever trying to jump up one. Having them work like the Tequatl jump pads or bouncing mushrooms would be a great fix (aka they succesfully bounce you to a set destination every time).

As for skyhammer, I personally feel the damage and recharge is just fine. It has a long wind up and obvious tell, I never have any issues dodging it unless the enemy is coordinating cc. But I feel that is the way it should be anyways. As for the entrance, it qould be nice to have some short invuln when passing through the gate so we can’t be instantly ganked the second we come through. Increasing the size of the platform and adding los objects is good and all, just don’t feel like it is necessary. Not opposed to it though.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Nah, I just came from the generation who actually grew up playing platforming games.

and you also play one of the best classes suited to the map.

Everyone has CC but not everyone has KB or pulls. It’s pretty clear how biased a DH would be. Creative? Facepalm.

Mightybird.6034:

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Nah, I just came from the generation who actually grew up playing platforming games.

and you also play one of the best classes suited to the map.

Everyone has CC but not everyone has KB or pulls. It’s pretty clear how biased a DH would be. Creative? Facepalm.

When you think about it, there’s maps in ranked that favour certain professions too. Mesmer on treb on Kyhlo is OP with a port. So DH are OP on skyhammer? roll 3 scrappers and beat the living **** out of them. Such is life…

I’ve never been a fan of Skyhammer. I don’t like the gimmick of the hammer, and I don’t like falling off the edge/glass breaking and falling to my death.

The idea of a platform under the glass to just cost you time instead of instadeath would certainly help and maybe a significant decrease in hammer damage may go a long way.

My Two Cents :

- No more “falling to your death” mechanics, aka breakable floors, put a transparent glass wall around the map, etc.

- Remove the jump pads.

- Rework the “Skyhammer”:

• Make it available only at certain times, (aka 11:30, 8:30, 5:30, pretty much like “Med” on ToSS).
• Place some sort of bonusses inside the underground passages of the map.
• Give it 6 uses and enable it for 1-2mins only each time.
• Increase the rotation speed of the Hammer
• Give it two types of ammo, 1, the current AOE dmg strike, and the 2nd, a healing shot with Condi cleanse.

Reasoning:
- Personally, I think the map brings a lot of fun as it is, but also brings a lot of frustration, specifically with the jump-pads, trying to reach a certain place with those jumps is just a nightmare, even worse when you’re trying to run away or kite someone, its dreadful. The theme and the hidden passages are great imho, but we need a reason to go to these passages without just wasting our time. Maybe a random ferocity in some spot, something like that.
- I think the Skyhammer itself, the cannon I mean, its fun, but how about if we give it a healing factor too? and make it available only during certain times, that way people wouldn’t zerg it from min 00, they will (or should) try to cap first, fight on points until the “hammer” is available.

jessiestiles.9437:

@ ROC I said at the start the start of the thread the ability to get knocked off the edge of the map is funny. You know it’s your own fault for getting too close to the edge. And I asked for no railings, and no change to instant death on the map edge. The abuse is specifically refering to the holes where mesmer can easily pull you into them, or skyhammer platform where you can get feared off by warriors. Their fear is unblockable, disables all your skills and lasts for 3 seconds. On that small platform you can be in the center and get feared off and there’s no way to avoid it.

Add gliders. Problem solved

IMO: people shouldnt be able to cc you off a point. Off point fights should still have that option available to encourage skirmishes.

Skyhammer access should be away from all other points, preferably between A and C, to encourage fights off point, similarly to the function of mid buff on temple

You should have to capture skyhammer before you can portal out to it

I prefer the idea of causing you to lose time when you fall through a hologram/field thing, as opposed to removing the mechanic

Replace gantry around mid with 4 smaller platforms, whose hitboxes allow a player to pull someone down(think DH f1 skill)

Add courtyard back in as a separate queue option

Hugh, all you guys have to do is make more maps like Foefire, Nilfhelm and Temple. They were very well designed, and its always interesting having a small “pve” objective for clutch plays.

Skyhammer revolves around a PVE objective, which makes it silly. I’d rather you removed the map and not waste resources on it. create more maps like the 3 i mentioned.

This is by far my favorite sPVP map. Just remove the cannon otherwise the map is great. Maybe put a cap point where the cannon controls are.

Forest is my favorite map. The secondary mechanic doesn’t dominate the gameplay, but it does feel worth the amount of reward they give. While it can help a team that is behind catch up, it only decides a match when the match is close already.

That said, I prefer the secondary mechanic in Skyhammer to be different from any other map. I don’t want to use the same strategy in Skyhammer that I would use in other maps. The importance is that it is fun and fair. Currently, I don’t find the skyhammer fun or fair. I just find it to be an annoyance. I don’t want to get it, but I don’t wan the other team to have it either. Basically, I don’t want it there.

A big problem with Skyhammer is that there is no good time to take it. Or bad time. For example, the beasts in forest don’t give enough points to make them worthwhile in the beginning. Kyhlo trebs are useful for contesting mid, but lose value on close or far and require a cost to use, especially if destroyed. Temple nodes are timed. And Legacy’s Lords are really only good for clinch wins; any other time, killing them can cost you the match.

My suggestion would be to make the skyhammer have a cost to use and not always be a good decision. Perhaps make it require a fuel source (like the fans in Old Tom’s room in the uncategorized fractal). There may be two nodes (a red and a blue) on opposite sides that spawn fuel and you need to get the one closer to the enemies side to use. Fuel will charge the hammer for 30 seconds and the hammer can only be used by the team that charges it (maybe can’t even enter the hammer room without the fuel). The fuel respawns every 2 minutes. If the fuel is dropped or the player holding it is downed, the fuel is destroyed. Buff/nerf hammer effect/damage as needed to compensate for difficulty to activate it.

Remove cannon room. Remove point B. So we will have map with only two contest points. Now where we had point B, put that omnious Skyhymmar (it will give nice impression to have its so close) and two control pads, one one the left and one on the right. Having one control pad gives +3 to kills. Having both gives 2x +3. Having both allows you to use Skyhammer. Remove all jumping pads, that will make falling more punishing and escaping more easily. On borders of the map put asuran field that prevent from falling. Falling platforms on A and C combo into huge semi-circle ones.
To all pillar-bridges give ways to jump onto top of them in normal jump way.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Ryuu.5608:

My Two Cents :
- Rework the “Skyhammer”:

• Make it available only at certain times, (aka 11:30, 8:30, 5:30, pretty much like “Med” on ToSS).
• Place some sort of bonusses inside the underground passages of the map.
• Give it 6 uses and enable it for 1-2mins only each time.
• Increase the rotation speed of the Hammer
• Give it two types of ammo, 1, the current AOE dmg strike, and the 2nd, a healing shot with Condi cleanse.

Reasoning:
- I think the Skyhammer itself, the cannon I mean, its fun, but how about if we give it a healing factor too? and make it available only during certain times, that way people wouldn’t zerg it from min 00, they will (or should) try to cap first, fight on points until the “hammer” is available.

This is an awesome point and something I really wanted to ask you (the PvP community) so thank you for bringing this up.

• Which secondary mechanic do you like more: A secondary mechanic that is always up and has constant impact on the map or a secondary mechanic that comes up periodically that maybe has more impact on the map?

• Do you think secondary mechanics should ALL be swing mechanics or can there be some maps secondary mechanics that are more focused on snowballing the match?

• If you could rework the Skyhammer secondary mechanic what would you keep and what would you change?

1. One that comes up periodically.

2. Like somebody said: what players like is PvPing. We just need a place to smash our faces with some flavor added to it. If the secondary mechanic is too decisive, then players will play the mechanic rather than PvPing. That’s what I think, at least.

3. Make the Skyhammer a thrice per match event. The doors to the hammer get unlocked, fist player to channel it gets it. The skyhammer shoots to all three points, maybe randomly. Might need to make it undodgeable again. Also may need a few other entrances like people have asked.

That’s an interesting thought. Make it more like tranq buff, except it just shoots all three points in a couple pulses or something at once.

Make it only intermittenly available. Like every 3 mins.

If that change were made, since it’d be so much less needed to constantly fight over it (prob only worth sending 1 guy to try for it) you wouldn’t have to change anything except how the skyhammer works and remove the glass panels and jump pads. Wouldn’t have to redesign the level I mean (making platform bigger, etc.)

Even the jump pads aren’t THAT bad. Just remove the glass, change the skyhammer to a channeled aoe damage attack only available every 2-3 mins and its now MUCH better.

Personally, the ‘Swing’ mechanics are only useful if a map is completely designed around it. This is the reason that foefire works. If you invest in lord, you have to invest fully, there isnt backpedaling because of the long distance. Temple is similar with bottom buff, it is a massive investment to make.

I’d like to see the one massive skyhammer AOE replaced with a shotgun blas of random AOEs, like we see with many of the boss fights with little 180 radius explosions. This make holding a point possible if you are under fire, but you can still theoretically contest it, as opposed to needing to blow dodge cooldowns

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Ryuu.5608:

My Two Cents :
- Rework the “Skyhammer”:

• Make it available only at certain times, (aka 11:30, 8:30, 5:30, pretty much like “Med” on ToSS).
• Place some sort of bonusses inside the underground passages of the map.
• Give it 6 uses and enable it for 1-2mins only each time.
• Increase the rotation speed of the Hammer
• Give it two types of ammo, 1, the current AOE dmg strike, and the 2nd, a healing shot with Condi cleanse.

Reasoning:
- I think the Skyhammer itself, the cannon I mean, its fun, but how about if we give it a healing factor too? and make it available only during certain times, that way people wouldn’t zerg it from min 00, they will (or should) try to cap first, fight on points until the “hammer” is available.

This is an awesome point and something I really wanted to ask you (the PvP community) so thank you for bringing this up.

• Which secondary mechanic do you like more: A secondary mechanic that is always up and has constant impact on the map or a secondary mechanic that comes up periodically that maybe has more impact on the map?

• Do you think secondary mechanics should ALL be swing mechanics or can there be some maps secondary mechanics that are more focused on snowballing the match?

• If you could rework the Skyhammer secondary mechanic what would you keep and what would you change?

1) I definitely prefer a secondary mechanic that comes up periodically and can potentially have more impact. I think this breaks up the flow more and puts in more depth to strategy than just waiting for 350 points to rush lord or to try and just control a 4th area for a different advantage (i.e. treb or skyhammer). I mean, good players will know the depth of when to rotate based on who is where and how each fight is going. However, when an objective pops (beasts spawn, tranq pops, etc.), it throws a wrench in all those plans and adds a new layer of complexity.

That being said, the lords on Foefire are probably my favorite of ‘always up’ secondary mechanics.

2) Not sure, but I think swing mechanics make for more epic and memorable games.

3) This is a tough one. I think that whatever it is, it needs to be a bit unique. Right now, Skyham is just too much like a shared treb in Khylo that can’t be destroyed. Here’s an idea though: At set times, there’s a button that gets charged up, located where the hammer is (or would have been, rather). Pushing this button should still require a bit of a channel, but when pushed, it triggers a poisonous gas cloud on the side nodes that hurts enemies and a damage-boosting electric shock to friendly players on the mid node (maybe even make them grow in size for flavor). This would make it rough for glassy roamers to cap side nodes while also giving bunkers on mid a chance to win fights on mid.

I think this could give a decent swing mechanic that could potentially be powered through if a team decides that they want to focus more on point capture than the secondary objective (similar to how a team can ignore the enemy treb on Khylo if they want) while also potentially giving a team the push they need to swing a game in their favor.

Variation of the button idea:

• When button is pressed, it triggers spinning golems to sweep across a point. Enemies can stability/dodge through them or AoE them down to counter. This may make for a more interesting match to watch.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

This is an awesome point and something I really wanted to ask you (the PvP community) so thank you for bringing this up.

• Which secondary mechanic do you like more: A secondary mechanic that is always up and has constant impact on the map or a secondary mechanic that comes up periodically that maybe has more impact on the map?

probably the latter. Though it depends on the mechanic if its a constant impact.

• Do you think secondary mechanics should ALL be swing mechanics or can there be some maps secondary mechanics that are more focused on snowballing the match?

Secondary mechanics should probably be swing mechanic (if its what I think it is, something for losing team to come back with).
While the snowballing one could speed up matches (especially if you’re the winning team), blowouts aren’t really that fun, for either side.

• If you could rework the Skyhammer secondary mechanic what would you keep and what would you change?

I would keep it the same. Same with the floor panel things. I think it give the map a more strategic aspect (especially if you can get them to fall through it).

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Hey all,

We’ve been discussing potential improvements to existing PvP maps, and we wanted to get your thoughts on some ways that Skyhammer could be updated to be a less of a frustrating gameplay experience.

So, what would you change? What would you keep the same?

Not on skyhammer but this needs attention:

Forest of Niflhel has multiple places where you can get stuck in walls due to displacement skills, meaning you have to relog top be able to participate again. This should seriously be looked at ASAP.

I’m trying to understand folks here. There’s bin threads on how to fix & improve maps since beta. We bin playing the same old conquest since the last 3 1/2 years. Every one is tired of them.

But, Peeps are still actually making suggestions like if Skyhammer is that really important. Like if it’s a must to play. !!! That really gets me fuming. I even posted a rant on it. As usual, it got lost with in the thread. I do appreciate the work & good intentions from the devs. But we bin begging for new spvp maps for a long time. (None Conquest)

So why are we talking about fixing old maps like skyhammer & making suggestions to improve it instead of focusing on making new ones? I really wish a Dev would answer this.

Does anybody feels the same way?

The only fix Skyhammer needs is to ability to save and load build templates.

Put some FENCE that will push you back on the map when you got fear/push in it.

Like a WWF ring?

I’m no expert but i feel the problem with Skyhammer is the very mario-kart feel it has doesn’t mesh well.

There needs to be a real trade-off for going for the hammer, as right now it’s pretty much all reward little risk. Controlling the hammer with certain classes is pretty simplistic too and rewards bunkers (read more defensive specs) more than anything as they turn what should be a 5v4 into a 5v3 since someone will inevitably gravitate toward removing them from the hammer.

Changing the hammer to a fixed spawn time to either force teamfights or splitting of objectives might help alleviate this, as would an ammo system or heat system of some kind.

Additionally a potential redesign of where the portal is located as well as where you can flee too from the hammer would go a long way in improving tactical decision making. If for instance 3 portals were on the map, 1 near each capture point you could make the decision to bail from skyhammer to rotate quickly and assist A or C as opposed to going through an obvious choke at B.

Glass Panels are the bane of this map, i would probably remove them. However, if you wish to keep them they need a serious tweak where in maybe only the hammer can break them.

Additionally bouncing pads, need the glider treatment where-in activation is client side not server side. This will help reducing some wonky bugs where you go up but not to max height.

The middle could probably use a bit less LoS as the sheer amount of LoS obstacles on this map is already high enough if you include the capture points.

TL;DR less banana peels and blue turtle shells. Make PvP the focus, not the comeback mechanics.

Actually i think that’s most interesting map. Disappearing panels must stay untouched, thet’s the spirit of Skyhammer! Convincing other players to step on it and then immobilizng them is one of evilest things i can imagine

how about change skyhammer mechanics to aim only at locations A, B, C and fire only, when players try to capture/defend them? Maybe add ability to neutralizing enemy points? Personally i like this map in its actual form, so i wouldn’t recommand to change it dramaticly. Also keep in mind, that players choose this map very often.

The best solution would be to make Skyhammer map optional, like Champion’s Dusk. Or, maybe, you should generally give all players ability to ignore one map they don’t like. The only thing I miss in this game is just one conquest map without additional objectives

Actually ya, you can keep the glass panels IF skyhammer goes on a 3-4 min timer AND it is the only thing that breaks them.

Not the best but, if it means simpler makes it more likely to get it done, then simpler it is.

The simplest fix, just keeping skyhammer from opening for the first 4-5 minutes or so. And don’t make glass break.

Any of those variations.

I actually like the idea of making the hammer somewhat of a weaker Tranquility. Like if it blasted all 3 spots and neutralized the enemy-controlled nodes and knocked everyone off of it, and was unavoidable (as far as the knockback/damage goes) but happen more frequently. I think that could be really fun. Leave the damage and knockback though, so it assists people pushing new nodes.

That, or alternatively, a 4th point. Part of me is dying for a map with 4 points just because i think it could be curious. Especially if the special 4th point was the larger of the areas and gave points quicker than the other nodes, so one more worth fighting for, but more opportunities to fight around (controlling outside nodes instead). I think SWtor successfully had a map like that, but it only had 1 center main node and 2 supporting nodes. Could be a really cool way to shake up strategies.

I have a love hate relationship with Skyham.

My suggestions would be:

-Improve the jump pads to get you to the finish location better/quicker.

-Make the A and C cap points larger and move the glass panels slightly further out from them.

-Remove the weird bridging on all nodes that messes up camera positioning. Possibly add in low glass walls for point B that shatter when the Skyhammer hits them. (Low walls=No weird camera on mid point)

-Skyhammer target diameter is too big. It should be no bigger than the size of the white circled cap points themselves. Along with the other suggestions that it should not knock down enemy players. A short interrupt is sufficient.

-Remove the teleport door to skyhammer platform. Add in 2-3 jump pads that throw you to the platform, landing in different locations.

-Move Skyhammer platform closer to the main map itself. Make the platform larger, remove 2 glass panes but make the remaining 2 slightly larger.

I want this to still be a conquest map. A PvP map, not a “camp the seige” and win. The Skyhammer should be used tactfully, not as a be-all-and-all of this map.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Do you think secondary mechanics should ALL be swing mechanics or can there be some maps secondary mechanics that are more focused on snowballing the match?

I don’t think any secondary mechanic should snowball a match in an extreme way, to still allow for a comeback. Lets not forget this is supposed to be Player verses Player

With how many times people ask for the ability to duel, 2v2/3v3 arena and real team death match, it should ring bells about secondary mechanics in conquest maps. On another note, please rework the lords in Legacy. They are abysmal.

my phone keeps autocorrecting Skyhammer to Skywalker. Just thought I’d let you all know…

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Which secondary mechanic do you like more: A secondary mechanic that is always up and has constant impact on the map or a secondary mechanic that comes up periodically that maybe has more impact on the map?

• Do you think secondary mechanics should ALL be swing mechanics or can there be some maps secondary mechanics that are more focused on snowballing the match?

• If you could rework the Skyhammer secondary mechanic what would you keep and what would you change?

I like the temple of the silent storm. Why? You start the match by fighting for the mid point (or any other 2-point combination). This takes 1-2 trys and then the buffs appear. The team which holds 2 points has to split up and try to get the buffs.

Now let us imagine for a moment, there has been tranquility around all the time. We would have 4 fighting areas (3 points + tranquility). The teams would form a strategy to win tranquillity and to hold it. The game would become really boring, isnt it? Hence, make it appear less often.

The secondary mechanics should not influence the game too much. They should force the teams to change their strategy but it should not decide about a win/loss. A good example are the forest creatures. Holding a point provides more points than killing the creature and the opponent holds the point.

Please dont forget: It is PvP and not “PvCreature, PvLord,…”. That as such can be interesting as well (as I discussed already).

I prefer a secondary mechanic that is not always present.

I personally like temple. The buffs there can change a game, but are not directly a win like usually a lordkill. It temporarily creates a 4th/5th point that brakes up the usual gameplay.

Remove those railings or barriers whatever you people call them, they serve carebears stuff , bad positioning should always be punishable.

Sorel.4870:

First of all, the map needs to stay. We don’t want another Capricorn.

1) A fix to the jump pads: it’s a fun idea, but right now they are unreliable. Make them like jumping and gliding: executed by the client and not the server. Also, you could change them so that they try to propel you on top of the platform when you stand still, while still being able to correct your jump mid-air somehow (to allow fake-jumping and other kiting technique).

wooooooow yes please. that would be a godsend.

ronpierce.2760:

I actually like the idea of making the hammer somewhat of a weaker Tranquility. Like if it blasted all 3 spots and neutralized the enemy-controlled nodes and knocked everyone off of it, and was unavoidable (as far as the knockback/damage goes) but happen more frequently. I think that could be really fun. Leave the damage and knockback though, so it assists people pushing new nodes.

That, or alternatively, a 4th point. Part of me is dying for a map with 4 points just because i think it could be curious. Especially if the special 4th point was the larger of the areas and gave points quicker than the other nodes, so one more worth fighting for, but more opportunities to fight around (controlling outside nodes instead). I think SWtor successfully had a map like that, but it only had 1 center main node and 2 supporting nodes. Could be a really cool way to shake up strategies.

I like the simultaneous Tranq idea. We know Tranq works, could have Skyhammer be just that, a buff icon that when channeled, it hits the node 3 times simultaneously in 5s intervals?

I don’t like your last idea about a 4th node because that promotes 1v1’s on each node with a +1 on one. Promoting 1v1 is a terrible idea because certain classes simply can’t 1v1 across the board. For example, condi mes & Thief may lose to guardian every time but Guard will lose to Engi/Rev/Druid every time, etc. If we’re talking about new gamemodes, lets revamp Courtyard TDM instead and convert it to Rounds only.

I think the skyhammer is fine. It just does a bit too much damage over too big area so you have to go to kill whoever is on it. If a dragonhunter has trapped the door you die getting in or a warrior fears you off the platform. If we can get in to kill whoever is on the skyhammer it’s playable.

also add more walls to the skyhammer area. there are people who camp the skyham (dh’s mainly) and do that all day. if they dont instagib trap bomb you as soon as you port then they will knock/pull you off. its the most frustrating experience i can imagine.

R O C.6574:

jessiestiles.9437:

@ ROC I said at the start the start of the thread the ability to get knocked off the edge of the map is funny. You know it’s your own fault for getting too close to the edge. And I asked for no railings, and no change to instant death on the map edge. The abuse is specifically refering to the holes where mesmer can easily pull you into them, or skyhammer platform where you can get feared off by warriors. Their fear is unblockable, disables all your skills and lasts for 3 seconds. On that small platform you can be in the center and get feared off and there’s no way to avoid it.

Add gliders. Problem solved

They can’t because people who don’t have HoT won’t have them.

jessiestiles.9437:

R O C.6574:

jessiestiles.9437:

@ ROC I said at the start the start of the thread the ability to get knocked off the edge of the map is funny. You know it’s your own fault for getting too close to the edge. And I asked for no railings, and no change to instant death on the map edge. The abuse is specifically refering to the holes where mesmer can easily pull you into them, or skyhammer platform where you can get feared off by warriors. Their fear is unblockable, disables all your skills and lasts for 3 seconds. On that small platform you can be in the center and get feared off and there’s no way to avoid it.

Add gliders. Problem solved

They can’t because people who don’t have HoT won’t have them.

That would be an excellent pay 2 win.

jessiestiles.9437:

R O C.6574:

jessiestiles.9437:

@ ROC I said at the start the start of the thread the ability to get knocked off the edge of the map is funny. You know it’s your own fault for getting too close to the edge. And I asked for no railings, and no change to instant death on the map edge. The abuse is specifically refering to the holes where mesmer can easily pull you into them, or skyhammer platform where you can get feared off by warriors. Their fear is unblockable, disables all your skills and lasts for 3 seconds. On that small platform you can be in the center and get feared off and there’s no way to avoid it.

Add gliders. Problem solved

They can’t because people who don’t have HoT won’t have them.

I mean, that’s not REALLY an excuse. Could just have them exclusively on for sky hammer for all players.

skyhammer is good as is, changing the map just because people dont want to learn how to play around knockbacks is unacceptable

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Which secondary mechanic do you like more: A secondary mechanic that is always up and has constant impact on the map or a secondary mechanic that comes up periodically that maybe has more impact on the map?

Periodically, for sure. If the thing is always there, you either split up the fights cause it’s as important as a capture point (Current skyhammer) or it only get’s taken when nothing much else is going on/it would win the game (Beasts and lord).

With timed ones however, the game is still mostly focused on the actual points, but there are short bursts where everything changes, meaning you suddenly have to decide whether to abandon a fight you’re in to secure it, if there’s an enemy player that might be able to get it that you need to contest it, or maybe just that you need to get ready to limit the impact (Decapping the points before or after buffs on Temple).

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Do you think secondary mechanics should ALL be swing mechanics or can there be some maps secondary mechanics that are more focused on snowballing the match?

I would prefer Swing mechanics that can’t be used to just instantly win a match, since it makes it more exciting to play (and watch) if there’s something that can turn the match around, as opposed to just having one team get further ahead. (Temple buffs vs. Lord is a good example. Buffs NEED to be kept in mind, even as a team that’s ahead, because they can give the team that’s behind such a good leg up, while lord is purely a win more mechanic.)

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• If you could rework the Skyhammer secondary mechanic what would you keep and what would you change?

The post you replied to had some good ideas, but i think i would restrict it even more: Have it up for X amount of shots at Y times. To make these shots worth it, remove the “gain control” part of the cannon, instead having the actual shooting require a short (1-2s) channel that can be interrupted by damage as normal. This way you mightill get a few shots of even if it’s contested, but it’ll be dangerous, they’ll be imprecise, and the opponent can also do it.

Get rid of being able to go to the skyhammer. Like other people have mentioned, DH traps have ruined it, you walk in, instant death. Or you just get punted off the side, since its so narrow, by some knockback. The laser should do about half the dmg it currently does, and target places randomly, damaging both teams. And make the trap panels on the ground either last longer, or make the holes smaller or something. And if you do fall, a sand wurm should swallow you, not you just flop into the sand and die

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Remove/adjust the breakable panels at A and C point or Add second layer under the hole so players dont die, but still lose time for falling into them
  • Which do you like better?

I’m kind of torn on this. On one hand, keeping the panels gives Skyhammer far more mechanics than most other PvP maps, but on the other hand I like the idea of punishing bad play. I’d say adding a second layer below is the best solution. It keeps the uniqueness of Skyhammer while preventing you from being absolutely GG’d.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Glass Panels only break from cannon fire
  • What do we think about this suggestion?

No. Keep the panels how they are, just make the break more obvious. Perhaps a “tick” like marker, that when it empties, it breaks. Make it easier to play around and with.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Enlarge the Skyhammer Platform, Add line of sight props

Definitely enlarge the platform. Right now it’s too small.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Add multiple portals to get to and from the skyhammer platform
  • Does this have to be in both places: in center of map and skyhammer platform or just the skyhammer platform?

Yes, both. I think the problem is people are getting sniped by traps and such. Give players more options here.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Adjust the jump pads

Definitely adjust jump pads. Right now they’re highly reliant on latency and perform quite clunkily. If this can be adjusted, please do it. Not everyone has <100 ping.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Take away the ability to die from falling damage
  • Do we want to completely remove the ability to die from falling damage or make it only in very specific places?

No. This is silly. Keep fall damage, just remove insta-gib mechanics. If you remove fall damage, make it very, very specific places.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Adjust middle point high ground
  • Do we want to completely remove this because of gameplay/camera problems or adjust it as it creates good gameplay but messes with camera

No comments here. I haven’t really had many problems with this.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Secondary Mechanic Adjustment
  • Reduce Damage
  • Increase Cooldown
  • Reduce the turn speed

Yes to all of this.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Remove Skyhammer from Unranked
  • Do we think the map simply can’t be altered to stay in Unranked?

No, keep Skyhammer unranked. Hell add it to ranked. Every single map should be put in a state where it is entirely viable to play in ranked. Skyhammer is close and Spirit Watch just needs the Orb Mechanic toned down (make it similar to Temple where it only appears at intervals, say every minute or two minutes, but increase the point gain).

I don’t want content removed from PvP, I want it added. We desperately need more maps, so instead of adding completely new ones, fix the ones you have. If you’re going to add new ones, add new Stronghold maps. That game type desperately needs more TLC.

Just wanted to chime in here regarding the fall mechanics on this map.

This is probably one of the most controversial aspects of the map since instant-gibs can turn the tides so easily.

I do think that it should still be a bit harder to knock people off on the cannon area so that knock backs are more strategic, but I don’t think you should change fall damage to be non-lethal.

Falling death is really part of what the map was designed around. If you’re set on fixing this map without completely redesigning it to the point where you might as well make another map, there’s no way to remove fall death without making it feel like bowling with those bumpers that kids get to cover the gutters.

Oh, and you still need to revisit the interaction of pull skills (Scorpion Wire, Magnet, Etc.) on this map if you decide to keep in the glass panes. These skills are just weird and glitchy, which doesn’t encourage skillful play.

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

R O C.6574:

jessiestiles.9437:

@ ROC I said at the start the start of the thread the ability to get knocked off the edge of the map is funny. You know it’s your own fault for getting too close to the edge. And I asked for no railings, and no change to instant death on the map edge. The abuse is specifically refering to the holes where mesmer can easily pull you into them, or skyhammer platform where you can get feared off by warriors. Their fear is unblockable, disables all your skills and lasts for 3 seconds. On that small platform you can be in the center and get feared off and there’s no way to avoid it.

Add gliders. Problem solved

They can’t because people who don’t have HoT won’t have them.

I mean, that’s not REALLY an excuse. Could just have them exclusively on for sky hammer for all players.

The wings still need some practice to get the hang of them. If people can’t use the jump pads I doubt they would pick up gliding from the odd game of skyhammer if they happen to get knocked off. It’s just a bad idea.

jessiestiles.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

R O C.6574:

jessiestiles.9437:

@ ROC I said at the start the start of the thread the ability to get knocked off the edge of the map is funny. You know it’s your own fault for getting too close to the edge. And I asked for no railings, and no change to instant death on the map edge. The abuse is specifically refering to the holes where mesmer can easily pull you into them, or skyhammer platform where you can get feared off by warriors. Their fear is unblockable, disables all your skills and lasts for 3 seconds. On that small platform you can be in the center and get feared off and there’s no way to avoid it.

Add gliders. Problem solved

They can’t because people who don’t have HoT won’t have them.

I mean, that’s not REALLY an excuse. Could just have them exclusively on for sky hammer for all players.

The wings still need some practice to get the hang of them.

You can say a lot of things against PvP gliding, but c’mon, you literally need 10s of gliding to master it

jessiestiles.9437:

ronpierce.2760:

jessiestiles.9437:

R O C.6574:

jessiestiles.9437:

@ ROC I said at the start the start of the thread the ability to get knocked off the edge of the map is funny. You know it’s your own fault for getting too close to the edge. And I asked for no railings, and no change to instant death on the map edge. The abuse is specifically refering to the holes where mesmer can easily pull you into them, or skyhammer platform where you can get feared off by warriors. Their fear is unblockable, disables all your skills and lasts for 3 seconds. On that small platform you can be in the center and get feared off and there’s no way to avoid it.

Add gliders. Problem solved

They can’t because people who don’t have HoT won’t have them.

I mean, that’s not REALLY an excuse. Could just have them exclusively on for sky hammer for all players.

The wings still need some practice to get the hang of them. If people can’t use the jump pads I doubt they would pick up gliding from the odd game of skyhammer if they happen to get knocked off. It’s just a bad idea.

People will master gliding in about 30 seconds, far sooner than they master actually playing the game. The problem with jump pads in their current iteration isn’t just “know how”, sometimes they just don’t freaking work. Moreso with latency. But if they just shot you straight up with less control, but you could glide afterward, it would be 10x more intuitive and useful than how it is now. And more fun.

Well no. It didn’t happen in 30 seconds because you had to master updraft and then lean techniques. And you didn’t have to learn getting longbow shot off the side of a building.

jessiestiles.9437:

Well no. It didn’t happen in 30 seconds because you had to master updraft and then lean techniques. And you didn’t have to learn getting longbow shot off the side of a building.

Who said it needed updrafts and leaning? I don’t really care either way, but simple gliding alone could be interesting.

Edit: Side note, might be an interesting way to get non-payers into wanting to buy HoT, experiencing gliding.

I figured updrafts was your plan for getting back up after you fall.