Guild Wars 2

Fixing matchmaking would be a very nice step!

PS: Skyhammer is fine as it is.

make the skyhammer less devastating dmg wise. incr the cd on it. should be comparable to trebs. if the dmg is higher, cd should be some what higher. i can dodge the treb all day, but the skyhammer will git u

removing the 3 holes around pt A and C would also help, as many people get frustrated winning a fight w/ ease, only to be pulled in by a 2nd, 3rd, 4th pull

the map is too smal. sidepoints should not be surrounded with those fall traps. the jump pads should be hopping you to your destination like shrooms @ hot maps.

The panels always bugged me on this map. I think the flash before they fall, but sometimes it is hard to tell and then bam, you fell off the map.

The positions of the nodes are nice with respect to the spawns. I would not change their locations. Maybe make them wider though.

I really hate the unreliability of the elevators. Especially if you miss the jump you have to wait a few seconds before you can take the elevator again. This gets annoying for classes that cannot port up and down quickly.

Along those lines, because of the z changes on the map, I have run into a lot of no valid path to target issues when attempting to infiltrator arrow around the board.

I think the hammer should do slightly less damage but be able to fire at a faster rate. It is stronger than the treb currently.

I find the gimmicks annoying with Skyhammer. When I play PvP, I like the actual “player vs player” combat part of PvP, it’s what PvP should be about. It shouldn’t be about running trebs, gimmicky explosions & knockbacks, death traps, npc’s, etc.. Please consider designing a capture the flag map a la Warsong Gulch, or Deathmatch. Bring the fun into GW2 PvP and let players fight it out.

Less PvE gimmicks, more player vs player combat.

You can’t have a teleport to the skyhammer. A DH can trap the doorway so it’s instant death. You have to close off skyhammer so you can’t get pulled or feared off. That’s just too abusable by certain professions. The skyhammer should do a little less damage and less area making it not so game changing.

The holes shouldn’t open when someone is pulled onto them as that is just abusable by certain professions.

The jump pads need to be changed to teleport pads or anything that just works 100% of the time. The area the skyhammer is in could do with being a bit bigger as well.

1. Remove the 3 fall traps around points A and C
2. Reduce the damage of Skyhammer or increase CD or a bit of both.
3. Increase the area around Skyhammer so its not as easy to get Feared off or pushed off.
4. Fix the jumping pads and make them like in the Mushrooms in HoT so you land on the target platform.

All the above have been mentioned earlier in the thread and i agree with all of them.

Panels only blow up when hit by skyhammer.

Remove the walkway above and pillars around middle point. They make for some very difficult camera angles.

If panels can only be blown up by skyhammer, add a few more panels to the map.

Only area you can be knocked off the map should be the skyhammer. The rest is danger panels exploding by skyhammer.

Owning skyhammer provides a point bonus on kills (+3)

How about just making new maps, or bringing back the old ones. Deathmatch, with maybe diffrent areas to spawn so that you can’t be farmed in the ONE spawn. Escorting an NPC/Goods while the enemy team tries to kill it. I don’t know but more map diversity would be better, not fixing an old map.

1# Remove canon.
2#Remove knockout from map and die (that’s not skillbased and just a dumb feature in pvp, let wvw have it)
3#same with plattforms that makes holes and people get cc’ed down and die

All these features are not made for pvp in this game, its just frustrating and annoying getting feared off and instantly die from something like that.

(Oh nos just feared helseth who has 2 second cooldown and he went off the cliff and now nos won the point for the abjured!!!!)

Great for esports right?

That’s a start.

Edit:in air immob above a plattform then dying is fun aswell.

Around the map is not so bad for falling. It’s kind of funny and you know it’s largely your own fault for getting that close to the edge. When you and the opponent fall off it’s even funnier. You’d never want it in ranked tho.

map is too small between points
skyhammer should be daze and not do dmg or do minor dmg as atm is too high
put some more objectives so it can interesting and not like any other map

Significantly enlarge the sky hammer platform. Add multiple portals to reach there. Move the mid point up there. Add various structures for LoS.

1.Getting rid of camera obstructions at mid (applies to Kylo too I actually want to see what’s going on around me and not have my camera obstructed by a wall or pillar)

2.Distance from points seems otherwise fine as other maps feel too big especially stronghold. Since speed doesn’t scale with map size I’d use Skyhammer as a standard here.

3.Reduce fall points and opportunities but don’t remove them completely.

4.Remove bouncy platforms.

I think that the platforms/holes are fine, no need to change them.

I do however, think the bouncy pads do need some rework (maybe make us go higher?), because at least half the time, I always just wind up falling back down into the same level as the pad (ie wind up being with only the top halfway of my toon about the next level/ledge).

1- expand the map amd distance between nodes

2- remove all panels and drops off the edge of the map, maybe walls to avoid being knocked off

3- rework the skyhammer, add a pathway up rather than a portal, remove cc on skyhammer

The obstructions at mid provide a shelter and you can stand up above mid and shoot down. Once this condi ranger trapper wouldn’t let me get near mid and used the pillars for protection. So I hopped up behind him and he didn’t know where I was shooting him from. The jump pads require a little practice on the players behave on how to use them properly.

I like Skyhammer as is. You’ve already made it so you can dodge the skyhammer and there’s a really long windup for it which gives you time to prepare to dodge or move out of the AoE.

Almost all classes now have access to some sort of push or pull to knock people off so I don’t see a problem there.

You already added more “railings” so there is less chance of getting knocked off everywhere.

I don’t see the problem with this map and why people hate it. I think it’s fun and having the hammer there is no different than beasts/trebs/lords/etc.

The only thing I might change is adding a second way to get to the hammer. While I love trapping/marking up the door it does feel cheap.

Reduce damage of skyhammer.

Add multiple ways to get to skyhammer. (to avoid traps)

Open up the skyhammer space a bit (about 200 yards extra space across)

Remove the 3 falling platforms at A & C

Increase the time it takes for sky hammer to turn, making it slower to respond all over the map.

I think those are the main things keeping this map from being an enjoyable experience on average. I have had fun on the map, but usually when people ignore the skyhammer lol.

Delete Skyhammer, bring back Capricorn, ty.

Delete skyhammer, bring back raid on the capricorn, just fill the water up with sand
….
profit.

Safety nets and guard rails.

Since it’s already kind of an odd map, why not enable gliding? Suddenly getting knocked off the hammer isn’t as horrible, and you could glide from mid to A or C.

Additionally, Skyhammer damage could be reduced, and you could add a platform under the holes at A and C so you’re still punished for falling through (lost time), but you can ran back up to the point from there.

Hardly will you do something good, if not leave all the same in PvP.
Take immunity, everyone should be susceptible to damge and against damage ….
Let us return to the good old ability only player !!!

Zodryn.4216:

Since it’s already kind of an odd map, why not enable gliding? Suddenly getting knocked off the hammer isn’t as horrible, and you could glide from mid to A or C.

Additionally, Skyhammer damage could be reduced, and you could add a platform under the holes at A and C so you’re still punished for falling through (lost time), but you can ran back up to the point from there.

While I think adding gliding would be fantastic, it would make it so that those folks without HoT would be at a severe disadvantage on this map. Any mechanics on PvP maps needs to be doable by anyone from F2P to expansion owners.

Interpret Interrupt.3824:

The panels always bugged me on this map. I think the flash before they fall, but sometimes it is hard to tell and then bam, you fell off the map.

The positions of the nodes are nice with respect to the spawns. I would not change their locations. Maybe make them wider though.

I really hate the unreliability of the elevators. Especially if you miss the jump you have to wait a few seconds before you can take the elevator again. This gets annoying for classes that cannot port up and down quickly.

Along those lines, because of the z changes on the map, I have run into a lot of no valid path to target issues when attempting to infiltrator arrow around the board.

I think the hammer should do slightly less damage but be able to fire at a faster rate. It is stronger than the treb currently.

Pretty much. Also, someone proposed that with HoT launch Skyhammer could have some updrafts under the panels, so you are punished if you stand there but you dont directly die, just lose some time while going up. Problem would be attacking flying enemies, which would be kinda weird :/

The biggest problem with Skyhammer is that it is extremely in favor of knockbacks and cc and not all classes have equal access to both. The second biggest problem is that it requires totally different builds than any other PvP map, without a way to save builds that’s tedious. On top of that some classes can trap the entrance of the Skyhammer platform.

So this has to be changed

1. Remove/Limit knockout from map and die
2. Remove/Limit breakable glass
3. Add multiple ways to get to skyhammer or disable traps on the platform
4. Implement Build saver

Remove the mechanic that makes players get control skyhammer rather make it that whoever controls mid have automatic control of sky hammer and skyhammer hits a random cap zone/point every 15 seconds

haha

khani.4786:

Zodryn.4216:

Since it’s already kind of an odd map, why not enable gliding? Suddenly getting knocked off the hammer isn’t as horrible, and you could glide from mid to A or C.

Additionally, Skyhammer damage could be reduced, and you could add a platform under the holes at A and C so you’re still punished for falling through (lost time), but you can ran back up to the point from there.

While I think adding gliding would be fantastic, it would make it so that those folks without HoT would be at a severe disadvantage on this map. Any mechanics on PvP maps needs to be doable by anyone from F2P to expansion owners.

Didn’t think about that…maybe it could be a teaser for F2P players. The only place they can glide in game without HoT. Otherwise yeah, it would be a problem.

I would rather if the skyhammer was more like a node that you captured. So once you got the hammer, maybe for the next minute it would nuke the capture points automatically like every 20 seconds. Sort of how tranq works in Temple.

Mostly it’s lame having to sit on the hammer and use it (it’s just not that fun), or when you are trying to capture a point and someone is just spamming it over and over. That’s why I think if it could only pulse every 20 seconds automatically (or something like that) it would be a lot more fun. Dodging the hammer isn’t that big of a deal, but it’s basically impossible when it’s being spammed.

khani.4786:

Almost all classes now have access to some sort of push or pull to knock people off so I don’t see a problem there.

You already added more “railings” so there is less chance of getting knocked off everywhere.

I don’t see the problem with this map and why people hate it. I think it’s fun and having the hammer there is no different than beasts/trebs/lords/etc.

The only thing I might change is adding a second way to get to the hammer. While I love trapping/marking up the door it does feel cheap.

The map is widely hated because of abuse. Every profession can pull or knock back and it has occured to everyone they can win just by pulling people into holes. They aren’t stupid. However for some people that wouldn’t be a satisfactory win because it’s using a cheap tactic like you described traps. Instead of having an enjoyable fight i’ll just instantly kill you. I’d say more people wouldn’t play like that than there are people who would. It’s sad because I like the challenge of fighting in a small area and trying to avoid running or dodging into the holes. There’s no choice but to get rid of them.

I haven’t played unranked in a while so I haven’t seen the railings they put up. From past experience during ranked there’s too many premades wanting to stomp in unranked. I’ll have to have a look.

I enjoy it:

The whole map for me is a whole situational awareness map. Know where you are, know what can happen to you depending on where you stand and what abilities you use.

Skyhammer: now that we can block/evade it, less of an issue. The team that controls it and is using it, has 1 less player to rotate, so use that to your advantage. If instead, your whole team sits at mid getting blasted, that’s on your team….

Falls: I’ve used knock backs n pulls to great effect here, and I’ve been on the receiving end a lot as well. Teaches you to pay attention to who you’re playing against, and understanding how best to position yourself in a fight.

We have more than enough maps where all you need to do is roll your face really hard to win, I’d rather not lose the unique aspects of some of these maps, it’s already boring enough doing Nifhel and Foefire constantly……

EDIT: Please don’t make the skyhammer automated either, a skilled skyhammer user vs an inexperienced user changes the game quite a bit, and both teams have to take that into account, as to whether or not they should bother taking out the skyhammer user.

Though, adding a second way to get into the skyhammer could be nice

Instant death is a bad thing. Also, the terrain and jumps are awful. Because of these issues, there’s no pacing or sense of momentum. It really doesn’t feel like team pvp at all. The map is unsalvagable.

Maybe this change is a lil bit radical, but it could be interesting. Right now Skyhammer favours CC builds, and the core mechanic is a copy pasta of Khylo, so as a proposed change I would remove both.

First, panels and bouncie thinggies are removed, and you rework the map a little bit with bridges/ramps so you can get to everywhere without the “jumpers”. Also you can take the chance to look at all the path errors around the map. Second, as a skyhammer rework, now you make skyhammer more accesible and usable by both teams simulatenously, and you make it so it teleports you to the targeted area instead of firing there. Imo that would be a really interesting and innovative mechanic for the map

By far the biggest problem is the breakable panels that make the map a CC contest, I’m personally happy to have them around if they don’t kill the player but instead require the player to jump back up (like the hole by point.

Make a thief, try to use sb 5, steal or shadowstep anywhere on map. 90% of the time it fails due to NO VALID PATH bug. The map is real garbage, whoever made it didn’t keep in mind classes that rely on teleport spells.

Holes with glass need to go.

Platform with cannon needs to be way bigger and person using teleport to cannon platform should be invulnerable for a sec so they don’t load into being feared off the edge.

Bottom line: map made for griefing/trolling will never be enjoyable for majority of players. Delete it.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Awesome thread so far everyone!

Just to clarify, this is just a discussion and we are not specifically committing to any or all of the suggestions, but it does help us to understand how you (the pvp community) sees the map and determine what can be improved.

To be blatantly honest… delete Sky hammer… problem solved.

If there was a “fun” pvp arena where no points could be gotten and its just for fun, then it could be there but for unranked (especially when ranked is closed) it is a frustrating map.

Remove/adjust the breakable panels at A and C point or Add second layer under the hole so players dont die, but still lose time for falling into them

remove i think is better.

Glass Panels only break from cannon fire

not a terrible suggestion, but i’d rather them just be removed. that way u still have those larger ones that can be used as they currently are

Enlarge the Skyhammer Platform, Add line of sight props

good idea

Add multiple portals to get to and from the skyhammer platform

more accessible is good. didn’t understand your 2 options tho.

Adjust the jump pads

not terrible idea, but they aren’t terrible as is either.

Take away the ability to die from falling damage

i think its ok in spec places. just the ones around A and C are too easy for some classes to take adv of

Adjust middle point high ground

i think its ok as is.

Secondary Mechanic Adjustment
* Reduce Damage
* Increase Cooldown
* Reduce the turn speed

all of those would be a good idea.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

Awesome thread so far everyone! I really appreciate everyone taking the time to write up their feedback and keep it constructive. Let’s do a quick recap:

• Remove/adjust the breakable panels at A and C point or Add second layer under the hole so players dont die, but still lose time for falling into them
  * Which do you like better?

Second one is acceptable I guess, but its similar to lets say old engie decap, which promotes frustrating gameplay by constantly CCing someone out of the point, or give you a huge advantage at capping the point by CCing them

• Glass Panels only break from cannon fire
  * What do we think about this suggestion?

I kinda like this one, even making panels bigger but reducing the damage from Skyhammer.

• Enlarge the Skyhammer Platform, Add line of sight props
• Add multiple portals to get to and from the skyhammer platform
  * Does this have to be in both places: in center of map and skyhammer platform or just the skyhammer platform?

Skyhammer platform, so it doesnt promotes trap stacking, and imo other places around the map, not only mid

• Adjust the jump pads
• Take away the ability to die from falling damage
  * Do we want to completely remove the ability to die from falling damage or make it only in very specific places?

Specific places and from the jump pads

• Adjust middle point high ground
  * Do we want to completely remove this because of gameplay/camera problems or adjust it as it creates good gameplay but messes with camera

Adjusting it would be enough imo

• Secondary Mechanic Adjustment
  * Reduce Damage
  * Increase Cooldown
  * Reduce the turn speed

As posted right before you, I would totally rework SH mechanic as right now its kinda like a treb 2.0. My suggestion was to teleport the user to the targeted area, which can be a fun and interesting mechanic.

Personally I like Skyhammer, but many of the suggestions seems quite promising, in particular making the Hammer plataform bigger and with multiple entrances.
I would definitely keep Skyhammer on the Unranked rotation, otherwise it will be risking throwing it on oblivion like what happened to Courtyard.

I’m going to be honest here: I actaully don’t mind the glass panels now that they can’t be stealth broken for stealth pulls. Ports/shadowsteps not pathing around the panels correctly is an issue though. I think the hammer might be a little too effective currently, but a small (~20%-ish) hit to either damage or radius would probably fix that.

Wolf Fivousix.4319:

Personally I like Skyhammer, but many of the suggestions seems quite promising, in particular making the Hammer plataform bigger and with multiple entrances.
I would definitely keep Skyhammer on the Unranked rotation, otherwise it will be risking throwing it on oblivion like what happened to Courtyard.

At least you can play CY on private servers…
RIP Raid on the capricorn

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Remove/adjust the breakable panels at A and C point or Add second layer under the hole so players dont die, but still lose time for falling into them
  • Which do you like better?

I think the panels are a unique feature and should stay, just less annoying.

• Glass Panels only break from cannon fire
  • What do we think about this suggestion?

Maybe, but it makes fighters dependant on the Hammer for panel plays, and may not be necessary if there is a safety layer.

• Add multiple portals to get to and from the skyhammer platform
  • Does this have to be in both places: in center of map and skyhammer platform or just the skyhammer platform?

Having one way portals closer to A and C from skyhammer would be interesting (maybe it pops you out on the safety layer below the panels). You could use the skyhammer platform as a shortcut to side nodes, increasing traffic to the platform.

• Take away the ability to die from falling damage
  • Do we want to completely remove the ability to die from falling damage or make it only in very specific places?

Perhaps only from skyhammer platform, but then I support gliding or some alternative for recovering from that fall, similar to A and C panel measures.

• Adjust middle point high ground
  • Do we want to completely remove this because of gameplay/camera problems or adjust it as it creates good gameplay but messes with camera

I like it there, but not the camera/los issues.

• Remove Skyhammer from Unranked
  • Do we think the map simply can’t be altered to stay in Unranked?

You could add a check mark for it like with conquest/stronghold if necessary. Maybe eventually it could become a different game type entirely…

I don’t have much to say in terms of “fixing” skyhammer, but please consider the asuran mantra- “Embrace simplicity”.

Think of reasons why simple map designs are so popular in competitive games like league of legends (summoner’s rift), halo (blood gulch / coagulation), final destination (super smash brothers series). Maps don’t need all these “gimmicks” to artificially make combat “interesting”. Skyhammer is unsuccessful for the same reason desert borderlands is unsuccessful- it’s too complicated when really, all you needed was a simple hilly area to duke it out.

Hugh Norfolk.2798:

• Remove Skyhammer from Unranked
  • Do we think the map simply can’t be altered to stay in Unranked?

With the given suggestions Skyhammer can be a good map, so no need

Let’s do a quick recap:

• Remove/adjust the breakable panels at A and C point or Add second layer under the hole so players dont die, but still lose time for falling into them

Ok

• Which do you like better?

First of all, the map needs to stay. We don’t want another Capricorn.

That being said, I would like to see, by order of importance:

1) A fix to the jump pads: it’s a fun idea, but right now they are unreliable. Make them like jumping and gliding: executed by the client and not the server. Also, you could change them so that they try to propel you on top of the platform when you stand still, while still being able to correct your jump mid-air somehow (to allow fake-jumping and other kiting technique).

2) The platform around the cannon is too small, and has no LoS spots. Dueling up there lacks the flavor combat has in the rest of the game

3) Frankly, gliding would be a super cool addition. The map is meant for fun anyway, and getting pushed off the Skyhammer would you send you back into the brawl. Epic. The only problem I see would be the mid-air immob bug.