So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: DarkSyze.8627

DarkSyze.8627

Time-Out Everybody!

Enjoy the show while nothing will happen

by AKGL Arkangeles

" Solutions To A Problem Can Only Be Found, When You Want To Get Rid Of It "
Ankur

(edited by DarkSyze.8627)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

Time-Out Everybody!

Enjoy the show while nothing will happen

by AKGL Arkangeles

i thought it was hilarious watching multiple people chasing 1 thief and being all happy about it.._

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: striker.3704

striker.3704

Elementalist doesn’t need to be nerfed. Celestial amulet needs to be removed.

This may actually be the best option: remove celestial amulet.

Ele is basically designed as a class that can do pretty much everything. However, the celestial amulet boosted it to the level that ele can do everything too well.

It would be better to have everyone in sPvP to fit into a role that does limited amount of things. Then you focus on rotation and team coordination to achieve the maximum synergy. Builds like cele DD ele really trivializes rotation and coordination. Being able to do everything well makes the whole game mode feel shallow.

I actually completely agree with this. Celestial amulet dictates a lot of what is strong because of the sheer amount of stats it gives alone. With it gone, people’s builds will be more counter-able because they will have clear weaknesses instead of covering all options.

There is always a clear weakness and nothing ever cover all options it just depends on how common the counter is. Are boon hate and chill common?

Even if you run the maximum boon hate possible, d/d ele can re-apply therm faster and cleanse any chill application you can do with ease (at least for now, it might be different when reaper is at it’s full potential).

I’m specifically talking about things like “ok this warrior is probably running zerker, burst damage will take him down” or “ok that necro is running carrion, meaning his toughness is low, I should focus on hitting him with direct damage skills”. Celestial doesn’t really have a clear weakness to exploit.

This compounds with the fact that D/D eles “weakpoints” (mass boon application and mixed damage) can’t really be punished. They re-apply boons so easily it doesn’t matter, and their damage isn’t suffering in any area. Even if you completely out play them, they have a myriad of escape skills to disengage and heal up.

none of these are bad individually, but together it’s painful.

also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

Evade IS damage mitigation, what are you talking about?

D/S/R necromancer F/A/T elementalist
S/I/F engineer Z/R/D guard

(edited by striker.3704)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: ronpierce.2760

ronpierce.2760

Mesmer isn’t in a bad state.

PU needs nerfed, staff needs looked at, and Blind on Shatter/Boonrip on shatter is still a bit too strong. Blind being because Mesmers really didn’t need it in the first place (feel free to argue, but Blind isn’t what mesmer is supposed to be about, yet after June 23 they’re one of the strongest blinders all of the sudden). And Boonrip trait is strong enough to be a GM trait easily. Confounding suggestions… Probably could use a 10 second ICD, or swapped with Furious Interruption so it was a choice between it and boonripping and leave both in master, but the tears would be immense if they did that. x.X

High Warlord Sikari (80 Reaper) / Lord Siekron (80 DH)
Warlord Sikari (80 Scrapper)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Swish.2463

Swish.2463

Its not first page so this will get ignored but anyone who takes time to dig into the Mesmer will find out a few things very quickly.

PU – Its broken, not OP. Traits associated with this are literally not functioning correctly and thus we have the long stealth and boon generation happening. when the bugs are worked out PU will be much more back in line than it currently is.

No nerf needed, just bug fixes.

Damage – Mesmer got a slight boost to its damage but the trait rework is what has allowed the class to boom. Are we OP? No, we’re just no longer forced to take two trait lines to function in PvP. Mesmer are now allowed to mix things up and be more defensive or offensive or utility based, offering the class more control over fights than it really previously had.

Side note, Mesmer damage is already well below most other classes when it comes to sustain and its bursts are arguably still smaller and harder to pull off than other classes. Remember that the Mesmer itself has lower base damage thanks to Phantasms hitting so hard (some of them anyway) and also remember that phantasms are pretty easy to knock down.

They carry less health than most engi turrets and less than Ele summons.

Whats really changed is that you cannot ignore the Mesmer anymore like you used to. Its a threat and its versatile.

Its in a very good place now where it can compete with other classes.

PS.
Mesmer mains from launch are also used to being very scrappy fighters and have developed reflexes and automatic responses that allow them to excel with the new options. You may also just be getting out played if its not a Stealth hog PU

~Elyssion~
“Gw2, It’s still on the Table!” – Anet

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: meow one twenty.4376

meow one twenty.4376

also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

Evade IS damage mitigation, what are you talking about?

That is technically incorrect.

Evasion prevents oneself from taking damage.
Mitigation lowers the damage taken when hit; more fundamentally, mitigation increases the effective health of the user.

Alright meow, where were we?

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Shaogin.2679

Shaogin.2679

you must be new lol it usually takes half year for Anet to make meaningful changes~

considering they actually buffed eles after 8 months they had been ALREADY broken lmao (Ele is op since they put celestial amulet into the game)

#esportsbalance

I agree that elementalists and mesmers need nerfs…but eles before patch were falling out of meta losing their spot to shout bow warriors…just saying

Oh, poor Eles. How bad it must be to come close to not being in every meta in the game. Lol.

Doc Von Doom – Asuran Necromancer
Gate of Madness
Contribute to the Wiki MetaBattle Builds

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Vapour.7348

Vapour.7348

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

???

ANYWAY, I stopped playing for a month and when I got on Mesmer recently, it seemed to produce less dps than it did after big patch. So mesmers are fine. Not sure if I can say the same about eles.

Mini Unagi – Iuther – Iiq – Trend – lancaster

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Archaon.9524

Archaon.9524

you must be new lol it usually takes half year for Anet to make meaningful changes~

considering they actually buffed eles after 8 months they had been ALREADY broken lmao (Ele is op since they put celestial amulet into the game)

#esportsbalance

I agree that elementalists and mesmers need nerfs…but eles before patch were falling out of meta losing their spot to shout bow warriors…just saying

Oh, poor Eles. How bad it must be to come close to not being in every meta in the game. Lol.

Considering that when shout war was good ele was still meta anyway….

Ark 2nd Account

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: sinject.4607

sinject.4607

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

???

ANYWAY, I stopped playing for a month and when I got on Mesmer recently, it seemed to produce less dps than it did after big patch. So mesmers are fine. Not sure if I can say the same about eles.

it’s absolute delusional thinking to say that mesmer is fine. damage is still way too high (mainly mindwrack), blinding dissipation is still far too strong (especially when compared to any other aoe blind trait), PU is still completely ridiculous regardless if it’s PvP or WvW, and confounding suggestions is still problematic because the actual design issue was never addressed, just slightly undermined by a loosely related nerf.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Vapour.7348

Vapour.7348

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

???

ANYWAY, I stopped playing for a month and when I got on Mesmer recently, it seemed to produce less dps than it did after big patch. So mesmers are fine. Not sure if I can say the same about eles.

it’s absolute delusional thinking to say that mesmer is fine. damage is still way too high (mainly mindwrack), blinding dissipation is still far too strong (especially when compared to any other aoe blind trait), PU is still completely ridiculous regardless if it’s PvP or WvW, and confounding suggestions is still problematic because the actual design issue was never addressed, just slightly undermined by a loosely related nerf.

Mesmers already got nerfed along with the sigils they use often. Stop whining and complaining like a lazy, self-entitled welfare recipient and L2P.

Mini Unagi – Iuther – Iiq – Trend – lancaster

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: sinject.4607

sinject.4607

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

???

ANYWAY, I stopped playing for a month and when I got on Mesmer recently, it seemed to produce less dps than it did after big patch. So mesmers are fine. Not sure if I can say the same about eles.

it’s absolute delusional thinking to say that mesmer is fine. damage is still way too high (mainly mindwrack), blinding dissipation is still far too strong (especially when compared to any other aoe blind trait), PU is still completely ridiculous regardless if it’s PvP or WvW, and confounding suggestions is still problematic because the actual design issue was never addressed, just slightly undermined by a loosely related nerf.

Mesmers already got nerfed along with the sigils they use often. Stop whining and complaining like a lazy, self-entitled welfare recipient and L2P.

great rebuttal to literally any of my points lmao.

the sigils they used getting nerf was an unfair nerf to every other power profession because of the stupid synergy greatsword has with air/fire from mirror blade, phantasmal berkserker, and it’s autoattack; all thanks to the multi-hit nature of these attacks.

a simple blanket nerf that unfairly affected thief, guardian, warrior, engineer, s/f ele, ranger, and power necro is in no world an answer to the multiple problems that mesmer posed in it’s current state. the issue was entirely on the part of mesmer as a profession, not gear.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Vapour.7348

Vapour.7348

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

???

ANYWAY, I stopped playing for a month and when I got on Mesmer recently, it seemed to produce less dps than it did after big patch. So mesmers are fine. Not sure if I can say the same about eles.

it’s absolute delusional thinking to say that mesmer is fine. damage is still way too high (mainly mindwrack), blinding dissipation is still far too strong (especially when compared to any other aoe blind trait), PU is still completely ridiculous regardless if it’s PvP or WvW, and confounding suggestions is still problematic because the actual design issue was never addressed, just slightly undermined by a loosely related nerf.

Mesmers already got nerfed along with the sigils they use often. Stop whining and complaining like a lazy, self-entitled welfare recipient and L2P.

great rebuttal to literally any of my points lmao.

the sigils they used getting nerf was an unfair nerf to every other power profession because of the stupid synergy greatsword has with air/fire from mirror blade, phantasmal berkserker, and it’s autoattack; all thanks to the multi-hit nature of these attacks.

a simple blanket nerf that unfairly affected thief, guardian, warrior, engineer, s/f ele, ranger, and power necro is in no world an answer to the multiple problems that mesmer posed in it’s current state. the issue was entirely on the part of mesmer as a profession, not gear.

I was trying to be partially funny so I apologize if my comment offended you. The reason I’m not too worried about PU is because they kinda suck at capping and having multiple PU mesmers on your team isn’t that great. 1v1 with a PU is an easy decap on point if they held it. PUs are annoying as the heck and I hate how sometimes ppl chase them instead of focusing on objectives.

Mini Unagi – Iuther – Iiq – Trend – lancaster

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: sinject.4607

sinject.4607

The d/d ele simply isn’t as OP as you think it is. 90% of it’s damage can be mitigated just by moving around. The rest you have blocks, dodges, blinds, and cleanse for. Killing a d/d ele can be tough, but getting killed by one…I can’t remember the last time.

um those tactics may have worked before patch when it was actually possible to interrupt ele in fire w/o being perma blinded, when CDs on fire weren’t so low and burning didn#t stack and didn’t have such absurd base numbers…..

blind is close to worthless vs ele besides very few cases as most of theit dmg is aoe or channeled

oh i am sry i can count very few builds that actually have blocks and none of them are effective vs current dd ele

no cleanse in game can keep up with ele condi uptime (besides other ele ofc)

yeah it just takes at least 2 players or another ele to kill 1 ele…. balance archived guize!

My last match our ele beat 2 thieves at home and was boasting how good he was coz his HP was full. I wanted to say it was Anet’s ele programmer that was good. But seriously, I think we have a problem when one class can effortlessly beat 2 thieves and still have full HP.

i was talking about similar skill level but yeah you got the idea

I think she’s a pro girl thief

???

ANYWAY, I stopped playing for a month and when I got on Mesmer recently, it seemed to produce less dps than it did after big patch. So mesmers are fine. Not sure if I can say the same about eles.

it’s absolute delusional thinking to say that mesmer is fine. damage is still way too high (mainly mindwrack), blinding dissipation is still far too strong (especially when compared to any other aoe blind trait), PU is still completely ridiculous regardless if it’s PvP or WvW, and confounding suggestions is still problematic because the actual design issue was never addressed, just slightly undermined by a loosely related nerf.

Mesmers already got nerfed along with the sigils they use often. Stop whining and complaining like a lazy, self-entitled welfare recipient and L2P.

great rebuttal to literally any of my points lmao.

the sigils they used getting nerf was an unfair nerf to every other power profession because of the stupid synergy greatsword has with air/fire from mirror blade, phantasmal berkserker, and it’s autoattack; all thanks to the multi-hit nature of these attacks.

a simple blanket nerf that unfairly affected thief, guardian, warrior, engineer, s/f ele, ranger, and power necro is in no world an answer to the multiple problems that mesmer posed in it’s current state. the issue was entirely on the part of mesmer as a profession, not gear.

I was trying to be partially funny so I apologize if my comment offended you. The reason I’m not too worried about PU is because they kinda suck at capping and having multiple PU mesmers on your team isn’t that great. 1v1 with a PU is an easy decap on point if they held it. PUs are annoying as the heck and I hate how sometimes ppl chase them instead of focusing on objectives.

it didnt offend, it just didnt offer anything of worth; which at the end of the day, hurts the game.

PU is a problem. in WvW it is an undisputed issue thanks to the pure deathmatch style of gameplay found there, in sPvP the only detracting feature of PU is the objective-oriented gameplay. while this does tone it’s effectiveness down somewhat, it still does not affect it’s actual performance since it still offers a very strong team utility with mass invisibility and the ability to wait for perfect opportunities to burst people in teamfights without detection/broadcast. you can also argue that it still does not truly make mesmer worse at point defense since the 1v1/2v2 utility makes it almost always capable of winning these fights simply at the cost of a decap or at worst a momentary full cap- because this is, at the end of the day, always preferable to the higher chance of death non-PU carries which obviously results in a much heavier penalty. i can delve further into arguing against it by turning to how it radically strengthens condition mesmer by considerably limiting offensive responses to it thanks to the hit-and-run nature of condi mes, but at this point it shouldnt be necessary.

PU, amongst various other mesmer mechanics, needs to be toned down.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Exciton.8942

Exciton.8942

PU is definitely an annoying sustain feature that mesmer has now.

However, beyond-next-level sustain is not just mesmer’s problem. Almost all meta builds have ridiculously high sustain. Zerker engi has invul into block into invul, and then stealth + vampirism runes. Warrior has double endure pain + great mobility. Thief has always been easy to survive, now boosted by SA, it’s even easier.

I would be all for PU getting shaved but at the same time, it should be applies across the board to reduce the overall high sustain.

(edited by Exciton.8942)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

So Sinject, you want blind on shatter nerfed, daze to stun nerfed, damage nerfed even though it already was on mirror blade and PU nerfed.

Sure I’m game but nerf every single good extra a thief got too while we’re at it. Nerf that -damage while in stealth, nerf their damage by 20% because most aren’t taking exicutioner to do their burst which they should for burst. Oh and let’s nerf shadow rejuvenation, too much sustain too especially with it being combined. Oh and panic strike totally needs a nerf, far too low a cool down for passive immob.

Only fair.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: sinject.4607

sinject.4607

So Sinject, you want blind on shatter nerfed, daze to stun nerfed, damage nerfed even though it already was on mirror blade and PU nerfed.

Sure I’m game but nerf every single good extra a thief got too while we’re at it. Nerf that -damage while in stealth, nerf their damage by 20% because most aren’t taking exicutioner to do their burst which they should for burst. Oh and let’s nerf shadow rejuvenation, too much sustain too especially with it being combined. Oh and panic strike totally needs a nerf, far too low a cool down for passive immob.

Only fair.

you’ve made no points as to why they’re fair beyond acting childish and demanding that they are because i suggested valid nerfs for problematic mechanics and thus have contributed nothing to the thread but your bitterness.

here are my actual arguments, minus knee-jerk retorts found in your reply:

  • blinding dissipation completely outclasses every single other AoE blind trait in the game, even the second best (elementalists’ blinding ashes) has an ICD and is a grandmaster trait. another comparable AoE blind trait would be thief’s cloaked in shadow, which again, is a grandmaster trait. there is absolutely zero reason for this trait be where it’s at on a profession that also has access to invulnerability (distortion) as this makes the blind unfairly strong as it cannot be cleared aside from attacking clones. the supposed balancing to it is that it’s tied to mesmer’s shatter skills, and their respective cooldowns provide the cooldown for the trait, however there is close to zero reason for mesmers not to chain their shatter skills in succession simply to spam blind on any melee attackers, especially when mindwrack alone only has a 12 second cooldown.
  • confounding suggestions was never nerfed. the main utility (mantra of distraction) was fixed. this fix did not actually act as an effective nerf as it did not address the actual issue of the mechanic: having an instant, ranged, chainable stun.
  • again, a slight nerf to current mindwrack damage is warranted considering how much it already hits for, the multiple-hit nature increasing it’s chances for critical damage, and the low CD it has.

not gonna even argue about PU. if you don’t see a problem there you’re biased beyond what is worth my time.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: ozzy.8059

ozzy.8059

You are forgetting the passive procs from the trait lines. Also, aside from the shatter spike the Mesmer has sustained damage and more utility.

I was taking traits into consideration. How can you not? The point is a thief doesn’t have to worry about his single attack being divided into 4 smaller attacks, or put up 3 illusions in the first place. Nor can you proc air and fire sigils on shatters. As for sustain, an evade thief has on demand dodges, which no other class can boast.

- nah thief just has to worry to not get interrupted while gaining stealth, not get killed while trying to get behind the target and actually land backstab before stealth runs out… oh and let’s completely ignore the fact that shatter is aoe and bs is single target dmg

- you CAN proc air/fire with shatter, please don’t lie for the sake of argument

- thief with evades doesn’t have backstab…. unless they run sd/dp which is rather worthless to his team due to lack of sb support.. not to mention they would have to run acro trait line thus either dropping SA or DA which are pretty mucn mandatory atm
also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

no it just puts your enemy’s useful/defensive skills on behind a cd wall while you can still use all your junk on them with no cd.. just a global 15 second recharge for everything and an auto attack that deals heaps of damage. thats what evades get you

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Vapour.7348

Vapour.7348

I really enjoyed pvp so much more before that June patch. Almost all of the builds I ran got rekt or reshaped to a form Im not too fond of. More than ever, builds carry players. I feel the devs have neglected a few classes and the update wasn’t well thought of. I felt that we became beta testers instead of providing meaningful balance to the game.

Mini Unagi – Iuther – Iiq – Trend – lancaster

(edited by Vapour.7348)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: apharma.3741

apharma.3741

So Sinject, you want blind on shatter nerfed, daze to stun nerfed, damage nerfed even though it already was on mirror blade and PU nerfed.

Sure I’m game but nerf every single good extra a thief got too while we’re at it. Nerf that -damage while in stealth, nerf their damage by 20% because most aren’t taking exicutioner to do their burst which they should for burst. Oh and let’s nerf shadow rejuvenation, too much sustain too especially with it being combined. Oh and panic strike totally needs a nerf, far too low a cool down for passive immob.

Only fair.

you’ve made no points as to why they’re fair beyond acting childish and demanding that they are because i suggested valid nerfs for problematic mechanics and thus have contributed nothing to the thread but your bitterness.

here are my actual arguments, minus knee-jerk retorts found in your reply:

  • blinding dissipation completely outclasses every single other AoE blind trait in the game, even the second best (elementalists’ blinding ashes) has an ICD and is a grandmaster trait. another comparable AoE blind trait would be thief’s cloaked in shadow, which again, is a grandmaster trait. there is absolutely zero reason for this trait be where it’s at on a profession that also has access to invulnerability (distortion) as this makes the blind unfairly strong as it cannot be cleared aside from attacking clones. the supposed balancing to it is that it’s tied to mesmer’s shatter skills, and their respective cooldowns provide the cooldown for the trait, however there is close to zero reason for mesmers not to chain their shatter skills in succession simply to spam blind on any melee attackers, especially when mindwrack alone only has a 12 second cooldown.
  • confounding suggestions was never nerfed. the main utility (mantra of distraction) was fixed. this fix did not actually act as an effective nerf as it did not address the actual issue of the mechanic: having an instant, ranged, chainable stun.
  • again, a slight nerf to current mindwrack damage is warranted considering how much it already hits for, the multiple-hit nature increasing it’s chances for critical damage, and the low CD it has.

not gonna even argue about PU. if you don’t see a problem there you’re biased beyond what is worth my time.

Blinding dissipation does have a CD(12, 25, 38, 50), it’s the cool down on your shatters. Incidently using a shatter to blind someone is stupid and your claim to stagger shatters for this just shows how little you know about playing a mesmer. Furthermore your own classes offhand pistol completely outclasses it in terms of blind application.

As for thieves GM vs Mesmer master, generally GM/Master status doesn’t matter only traits it competes with. Incidentally the actual cool down on cloaked in shadows is 4s not accounting for initiative and at most 9s assuming waiting for regen on initiative.

Instant ranged chainable stun is not CS. It only converts the first daze to a stun, you would then need a follow up stun which correct me if I’m wrong mesmers do not have in their meta power build or in fact any build outside of interrupt with OH pistol.

Having said that if you bothered to peak in the Mesmer forums most have said it should just be a 10s ICD perhaps making it local to the enemy. So blame Anet.

As for PU. I already said earlier. Mesmer lost all clone death traits. Go back and read my statement as I won’t repost it a third time for someone so ignorant.

My point, which you missed in all your rage, is that thief got plenty of nice buffs to survivability when they arguably didn’t need it in SA line. You essentially want to remove all Mesmer survivability added in the spec patch which would then push Mesmer completely out PvP again and revert them back to the shutdown by thieves status. So if you wish it done to Mesmer, I wish it done to thieves too.

Thief is still the most mobile class in PvP and the most viable and forgiving roamer in WvW. A thief doesn’t generally die to anything but their own bloodthirst/over commitment. Great example: Count how many times Magic Toker died in WTS.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

you must be new lol it usually takes half year for Anet to make meaningful changes~

considering they actually buffed eles after 8 months they had been ALREADY broken lmao (Ele is op since they put celestial amulet into the game)

#esportsbalance

I agree that elementalists and mesmers need nerfs…but eles before patch were falling out of meta losing their spot to shout bow warriors…just saying

Oh, poor Eles. How bad it must be to come close to not being in every meta in the game. Lol.

Considering that when shout war was good ele was still meta anyway….

In my opinion all classes should have a right to be meta, defending that if my class isn´t meta then others deserve the same fate is just having kitten-hurt sorry…get over it

And I’m one of the eles that have and will continue to ask to nerfs to ele, the state of the class isn´t good for eles, it dulls our skill and no good ele wants that.

Casual pvp’er – Can only play 2-3 hours a day

https://www.gw2pvp.de/profile/ab4bd8fa4c3f250ac9533c479b0b862b/

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

You are forgetting the passive procs from the trait lines. Also, aside from the shatter spike the Mesmer has sustained damage and more utility.

I was taking traits into consideration. How can you not? The point is a thief doesn’t have to worry about his single attack being divided into 4 smaller attacks, or put up 3 illusions in the first place. Nor can you proc air and fire sigils on shatters. As for sustain, an evade thief has on demand dodges, which no other class can boast.

- nah thief just has to worry to not get interrupted while gaining stealth, not get killed while trying to get behind the target and actually land backstab before stealth runs out… oh and let’s completely ignore the fact that shatter is aoe and bs is single target dmg

- you CAN proc air/fire with shatter, please don’t lie for the sake of argument

- thief with evades doesn’t have backstab…. unless they run sd/dp which is rather worthless to his team due to lack of sb support.. not to mention they would have to run acro trait line thus either dropping SA or DA which are pretty mucn mandatory atm
also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

no it just puts your enemy’s useful/defensive skills on behind a cd wall while you can still use all your junk on them with no cd.. just a global 15 second recharge for everything and an auto attack that deals heaps of damage. thats what evades get you

define junk? yes ini is global but use of skills is exclusive through that
if i use ini for CC i don’t have ini for dmg or defensive
if i use ini for mobility, once again i am denying myself dmg and survival…. etc.
are you implying that other zerkers do 0 dmg with their AA lol?

evades do NOT give dmg mitigation nor heals – channeled spells/aoe, condis, timed attacks still hit you once evade frame is over and you are in aftercase

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Archaon.9524

Archaon.9524

you must be new lol it usually takes half year for Anet to make meaningful changes~

considering they actually buffed eles after 8 months they had been ALREADY broken lmao (Ele is op since they put celestial amulet into the game)

#esportsbalance

I agree that elementalists and mesmers need nerfs…but eles before patch were falling out of meta losing their spot to shout bow warriors…just saying

Oh, poor Eles. How bad it must be to come close to not being in every meta in the game. Lol.

Considering that when shout war was good ele was still meta anyway….

In my opinion all classes should have a right to be meta, defending that if my class isn´t meta then others deserve the same fate is just having kitten-hurt sorry…get over it

And I’m one of the eles that have and will continue to ask to nerfs to ele, the state of the class isn´t good for eles, it dulls our skill and no good ele wants that.

problem is that 95% eles out there are not even close to decent level and will never give up defending cele d/d cause without it being so broken they won’t be able to do something….i know that good eles all agree that ele is broken, the ones who don’t it’s just because they need to be op in order to balance their lack of skills….and forum is plenty of those ppl

Reminds me when hambow was broken more than one year ago and only a few wars (Including me, i even got my first account banned from forums cause i kept asking to tone down MY MAIN CLASS) were asking for balance even if it was our main class…most wars just kept defending it beyond all logic just because they were not able to play on a balanced spec…and it’s the exact same story now with ele, if you talk with ANY top ele he’s gonna tell you that celestial ele needs to be toned down

Ark 2nd Account

(edited by Archaon.9524)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Talyn Sneider.1825

Talyn Sneider.1825

you must be new lol it usually takes half year for Anet to make meaningful changes~

considering they actually buffed eles after 8 months they had been ALREADY broken lmao (Ele is op since they put celestial amulet into the game)

#esportsbalance

I agree that elementalists and mesmers need nerfs…but eles before patch were falling out of meta losing their spot to shout bow warriors…just saying

Oh, poor Eles. How bad it must be to come close to not being in every meta in the game. Lol.

Considering that when shout war was good ele was still meta anyway….

In my opinion all classes should have a right to be meta, defending that if my class isn´t meta then others deserve the same fate is just having kitten-hurt sorry…get over it

And I’m one of the eles that have and will continue to ask to nerfs to ele, the state of the class isn´t good for eles, it dulls our skill and no good ele wants that.

problem is that 95% eles out there are not even close to decent level and will never give up defending cele d/d cause without it being so broken they won’t be able to do something….i know that good eles all agree that ele is broken, the ones who don’t it’s just because they need to be op in order to balance their lack of skills….and forum is plenty of those ppl

Reminds me when hambow was broken more than one year ago and only a few wars (Including me, i even got my first account banned from forums cause i kept asking to tone down MY MAIN CLASS) were asking for balance even if it was our main class…most wars just kept defending it beyond all logic just because they were not able to play on a balanced spec…and it’s the exact same story now with ele, if you talk with ANY top ele he’s gonna tell you that celestial ele needs to be toned down

I agree with you, I must admit not long ago I was one of those elementalists that had trouble fighting warriors and thiefs, but as soon as i discovered that the winning factor is to keep them as blind as possible those fights got so unbalanced they lost their fun…

I kinda miss when I had to look out for warriors and thief’s spike damage, don’t get me wrong they still hurt, but due to excessive blindness it’s so rarely i have no trouble porting to a safe spot and healing back to full health.

It gets so ridiculous that sometimes at 20% health I prefer to go to fire attunement because i know I’ll blind my enemy so much I’ll be safer in my more damaging attunement…

Would love for burning stacks to lower on dagger dagger skills, cool down on blinding ashes to increase, and this would just be the starting point. From there we should reevaluate and decide if further nerfs would be needed.

Casual pvp’er – Can only play 2-3 hours a day

https://www.gw2pvp.de/profile/ab4bd8fa4c3f250ac9533c479b0b862b/

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: striker.3704

striker.3704

also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

Evade IS damage mitigation, what are you talking about?

That is technically incorrect.

Evasion prevents oneself from taking damage.
Mitigation lowers the damage taken when hit; more fundamentally, mitigation increases the effective health of the user.

Not taking damage at all is ALWAYS more potent than lowering the damage you take (This is the fundamental reason necros aren’t really meta atm, they have no way of stopping massive spike that other classes can go invulnerable to avoid.) You could say it’s the single most potent form of damage mitigation right after being completely invulnerable.

D/S/R necromancer F/A/T elementalist
S/I/F engineer Z/R/D guard

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: meow one twenty.4376

meow one twenty.4376

also evade is not sustain, you can avoid some dmg yes, but evade doesn’t give any dmg mitigation nor heals

Evade IS damage mitigation, what are you talking about?

That is technically incorrect.

Evasion prevents oneself from taking damage.
Mitigation lowers the damage taken when hit; more fundamentally, mitigation increases the effective health of the user.

Not taking damage at all is ALWAYS more potent than lowering the damage you take (This is the fundamental reason necros aren’t really meta atm, they have no way of stopping massive spike that other classes can go invulnerable to avoid.) You could say it’s the single most potent form of damage mitigation right after being completely invulnerable.

Necromancers are off topic for our discussion.

Damage mitigation is a principle where damage taken is reduced.
Evades/Blocks/Invulns prevent damage from being inflicted and thus damage cannot be mitigated since it is never used.

They are technically different since Evades/Blocks/Invulns prevent the damage formula from even being applied. They are practically similar because they all function to keep the user alive during a fight in a defensive manner.

Alright meow, where were we?

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Pride.1734

Pride.1734

Mesmers:
Blinding Dissipation 5 secs icd
Nerf Master Fencer. The requirement for 100% fury uptime is laughable when compared to other fury traits on other classes. And its a Minor!! Either make the requirement way harder like 25% hp or nerf the duration by half or more.

Bam fixed.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Xstein.2187

Xstein.2187

If you don’t take the elle off point, you still loose. I can survive just by sitting at the starting point as well. Not going to die, not going to win. The point is not avoiding getting killed by the ele straight out. Its that they are very good at controlling points. Its easy to say don’t cross over this ring of fire. Of course you won’t die if you don’t. However, some classes won’t cap the point either or win the game by sitting around watching you surrounded by fire. Not attacking ele, I didn’t read the whole thread, just pointing out as well that this argument doesn’t make sense. Its possible that this comment was taken out of context as well. If thats the case, than disregard this paragraph. I also realize that some classes can fight elle at a distance. However, that is rather difficult or imposible for others.

I was mainly going on to talk about the idea of nerfing master Fencer. This trait helps out pve mesmer in dungeons a lot and right now, even with the trait, they are still one of the lowest sustained damage classes. Just telling people to think about multiple aspects of the game before asking for nerfs. Thats all, good day, please continue.

Lägertha Lothbrök: PvE Mesmer
Schrödingers Clone: PvP Mesmer

(edited by Xstein.2187)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Pride.1734

Pride.1734

I was mainly going on to talk about the idea of nerfing master Fencer. This trait helps out pve mesmer in dungeons a lot and right now, even with the trait, they are still one of the lowest sustained damage classes. Just telling people to think about multiple aspects of the game before asking for nerfs. Thats all, good day, please continue.

Since when was fury in dungeons ever an issue? You get that thrown at you left and right.
Mesmers cerrtainly have dps issues there but its the phantasms not the fury.

(edited by Pride.1734)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Xstein.2187

Xstein.2187

Extra furry can help with reflects. Additionally damage is traditionally said to be split up 60%/40% or somewhere close to this statistic based on the circumstance between phantasms and individual damage. Master Fencer helps boost individual damage and helps with reflects. Especially if you are in a bad pug.

Lägertha Lothbrök: PvE Mesmer
Schrödingers Clone: PvP Mesmer

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Pride.1734

Pride.1734

So bad pugs is your argument for leaving this trait as op as it is? im done.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Xstein.2187

Xstein.2187

lol do you really feel like Master Fencer is the reason you lost to a mesmer in pvp? I’m saying there are ways balance classes without crossing into pve. For example, they should not have nerfed harmonious mantras from 4% to 3%. They could have just messed around with confounding suggestions.

Lägertha Lothbrök: PvE Mesmer
Schrödingers Clone: PvP Mesmer

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Pride.1734

Pride.1734

Affect PvE =/= affect bad pugs. Your point is flawed from the roots.

For the record i play mainly mesmer necro and engi and noticed the damage spike from this minor trait myself while using it. Trying to turn this laughable argumentation of yours arround by attacking my gameplay without knowing how or what i play is beyond pathetic.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: DaShi.1368

DaShi.1368

He has a good point though. Master Fencer may not be the issue you are having and nerfing because you “believe” that you are losing to it will affect a lot more than sPvP.

If you really believe it is OP, provide some substantial evidence.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: MrKahwk.9524

MrKahwk.9524

I mean, its been nearly a month since the patch, this is getting realy old realy fast

PLEASE I want this nerf to happen soon. The only evidence for their opness I need is the sheer number of players using both classes in pvp right now. End of discussion, nerf. them.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Pride.1734

Pride.1734

He has a good point though. Master Fencer may not be the issue you are having and nerfing because you “believe” that you are losing to it will affect a lot more than sPvP.

If you really believe it is OP, provide some substantial evidence.

much troll much cant read what i already posted much wow

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: meow one twenty.4376

meow one twenty.4376

Yeah…pretty much don’t need to even consider your opinion anymore.

I’d like to hear your opinions about it.

Lol!!!

I’m done in this thread, at least I can leave it with a laugh!

Alright meow, where were we?

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Velimere.7685

Velimere.7685

Yeah…pretty much don’t need to even consider your opinion anymore.

I’d like to hear your opinions about it.

/thread

Anyone who says Zerk is the average Joe build is an average Joe.

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: philheat.3956

philheat.3956

I was thinking if we are in a worst situation than the old double cheesy hambow meta, dunno, at least we don’t have spirit ranger pets.

But i see always the same problem , cheesy build too good in everything (speaking about eles ofc).

(edited by philheat.3956)

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: faker.7253

faker.7253

Attachments:

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Cynz.9437

Cynz.9437

omg they are actually doing it xD

All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>

So when is the ele and mes nerf comming?

in PvP

Posted by: Sagat.3285

Sagat.3285

“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
The Dhuumfire thread