Guild Wars 2

Greetings everyone!
Been a while since I’ve posted anything on here, but I’d really like to discuss this matter and shed some light on it.
ArenaNet has announced a new sPvP mode, which is great and really appreciated. It seems like a mix of GvG, Fort Aspenwood and a little sip of MOBA, which could potentially be a great combination!

So what is the problem?

Trebuchets. I cannot be the only one who thinks this is a big mistake. Manning siege is very uninteresting and requires very little skill, which is not great for a competitive gamemode. Nobody wants to be the one guy forced to use siege, and limited to using only 3 abilites – two of them being rotational. Furthermore, they are extremely frustrating to use because they take ages to rotate. Holding down #1 or #3 for 5 seconds while your allies battle for the win is so demeaning.

There is a possbility that the trebuchets are not manned by players but NPCs. This could be achieved by hiring them with supply or gaining their assistance by completing other objectives on the map. This would be a much better solution, and the trebuchets would function more similarly to towers in Dota 2. Just imagine having to actually man the towers in MOBA’s. I shiver from the thought.

I’d like to hear other opinions on the matter, and if you agree, let’s hope the word reaches Anet before they ship HoT.

#Saynotosiege

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Stronghold-and-RTS/first#post4731701

Siege units could’ve been managed by the Lord, so rest of the players can focus just on getting the supplies and fighting PvP.

You bring up a really great point. From the precedent that’s been set with the Battle of Khylo, I can’t say that I really saw a problem initially with manning a Trebuchet at clutch times.

If it requires someone on the team to be full time siege, that may be a role this game is not ready for. If it’s more opportunistic in nature, that sits fine with me.

It really will depend on the frequency of use. and dependency on siege weaponry.

not commenting untill i see the whole map lay out and actual usage of treb and if its effective or not.

personally i would love to treb if it actually has a great out come and depend on your instinct.

Here’s wondering why HA (Heroes’ Ascent), a simple Team Death Match with few extra mechanics did far more better in GW1 than GW2 is doing (PvP).
Why do they have to go after all these gimmicky game modes, mix moba, conquest, buffs, and all the other things.

Nick.6972:

Here’s wondering why HA (Heroes’ Ascent), a simple Team Death Match with few extra mechanics did far more better in GW1 than GW2 is doing (PvP).
Why do they have to go after all these gimmicky game modes, mix moba, conquest, buffs, and all the other things.

Because we don’t have Monks and proper supporters/interrupters.

I don’t find trebs that bad in Khylo.

Never occured to me beforem but youre right.

Playing treb for whole game is super boring.

If it can and actualy gets destroyed like in kyhlo, then its ok.

Well, I hope most elements of the gamemode are up for discussion.

But to be able to tell, which elements are fun to play with and which are not, we have to first be able to play the map properly. We also have to give the map design a chance, and see if we just need to adapt before crying for changes.

I think trebuchet it’s an interesting secondary mechanic, it requires more skill to aim than skyhammer , you can dodge the treb and the cover area is not huge. And yes, you can destroy it.

Honestly i think it’s fine.

i dont think its very balanced that condi classes can’t take out trebs.

Solstice.1097:

i dont think its very balanced that condi classes can’t take out trebs.

If this was other forums I would spam gifs after reading this.

Solstice.1097:

i dont think its very balanced that condi classes can’t take out trebs.

This is a general problem, i think at least burning should work on walls/turrets etc.

I can understand bleeding & c. don’t have much sense but some condis could work.

MarkPhilips.5169:

Solstice.1097:

i dont think its very balanced that condi classes can’t take out trebs.

This is a general problem, i think at least burning should work on walls/turrets etc.

I can understand bleeding & c. don’t have much sense but some condis could work.

right like i wouldnt expect confusion to hurt a trebuchet lol….

but treb is the only mechanic where certain builds have an advantage. yes it’s rarely a gamebreaker and it wouldn’t make the top 50 in things to address in PvP, but it’s still what it is.

Stronghold is to bring more WvW players into PvP! WvW players don’t mind spending hours on a siege weapon!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ellesee.8297:

WvW players don’t mind spending hours on a siege weapon!

Only if it’s arrowcart.

ellesee.8297:

Stronghold is to bring more WvW players into PvP! WvW players don’t mind spending hours on a siege weapon!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

considering gw2’s competitive pvp community consists of 25-30 people, any influx of players is most welcome. even if theyre just manning the trebs.

You are right! But more people =/= more competitiveness! There have been many surges of PvE-ers to PvP with reward tracks and backpieces and new dailies! How did that turn out! Rank farm! Daily farm! Bad matchmaking! Anet needs to stop trying to bring players of one game mode into another! It just will never work! Anet needs to find ways to get new players to play their game! New players who are competitive! There needs to be a competitive PvP game mode before anything and Stronghold isn’kitten The amount of times I see a Legendary Champion just so bad at the game…! I feel a rant coming on so I will just end this post here!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

PVErs or people like me who were roamers in WvW just don’t all of sudden become equals to people who pvp’d from the start. Competition builds over time.

Champion titles are meaningless anyhow.

So…this is like WvW but scaled down for 5v5.

Nick.6972:

Here’s wondering why HA (Heroes’ Ascent), a simple Team Death Match with few extra mechanics did far more better in GW1 than GW2 is doing (PvP).
Why do they have to go after all these gimmicky game modes, mix moba, conquest, buffs, and all the other things.

I think there’s a great demand in the community for pvp game modes that require nothing but pvp. Whether the community is asking for wvw style arenas for gvg, 8v8s akin to those in gw1, or 3v3 or 2v2 arenas, the basic concepts are all the same; no gimmicks, just players killing players.

Nick.6972:

Nick.6972:

-snip-

Because we don’t have Monks and proper supporters/interrupters.

But we do! With the proper team coordination, everyone supports each other. As for interrupts, we have daze, fear, knockback, pull, and stuns. Again, interrupts are easy to coordinate in a team environment.
I may get flamed for this here, but I am a player who spends the majority of my time in game spent in pvp who still enjoys wvw. My only issue with it is the scale of the encounters. I think a 5v5 or 8v8 style gamemode sounds incredible.
/shrug

SobeSoul.6910:

PVErs or people like me who were roamers in WvW just don’t all of sudden become equals to people who pvp’d from the start. Competition builds over time.

Champion titles are meaningless anyhow.

It’s been almost 3 years! Are you telling me that in almost 3 years the most hyped, most anticipated, best selling MMO can only produce ~20 people across 6 continents that can compete with one another! Silly! 3 years of terrible conquest and now possibly 3 more years of this new game mode that is more PvE than PvP with no actual competitive PvP in sight! I am so very sad!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

ellesee.8297:

SobeSoul.6910:

PVErs or people like me who were roamers in WvW just don’t all of sudden become equals to people who pvp’d from the start. Competition builds over time.

Champion titles are meaningless anyhow.

It’s been almost 3 years! Are you telling me that in almost 3 years the most hyped, most anticipated, best selling MMO can only produce ~20 people across 6 continents that can compete with one another! Silly! 3 years of terrible conquest and now possibly 3 more years of this new game mode that is more PvE than PvP with no actual competitive PvP in sight! I am so very sad!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I’m telling you your cynical attitude holds no weight in reality. Boohoohooing because you didn’t get your way is meaningless fodder.

Plus there’s quite a bit more than 20 people across the continents who can compete at highest levels.

SobeSoul.6910:

Plus there’s quite a bit more than 20 people across the continents who can compete at highest levels.

Considering the number of teams who actually play regularly in ESL tournaments, ~20 isn’t far off the mark.

ESL and tournies =/= entire competitive base of players. I’ve been able to farewell against some of the people who play in those tournies. Not so much the very top players. However, I know there are guys like cmc who aren’t/weren’t regulars in the ESL in solo queue who can.

This is an MMO. High level PvP will NEVER EVER happen here. Plenty of people have written as to why but it boils down to it being bad to spectate and buy2play. Please point to a game that is b2p and is very competitive. SC2 is the only one that comes to mind and even that is dying a slow death to the MOBA.

I welcome a new interesting game mode to play against other people. I have no idea why other people QQ all the time, if you want pure competition, DOTA/LoL/CSGO are all out there and totally free. They are not weighed down by having to develop a PvE world or anything else.

displacedTitan.6897:

This is an MMO. High level PvP will NEVER EVER happen here.

Have you ever heard about GW1?

^ He’s confusing competitiveness with viewership.

A moba type game mode cannot work in gw2 for multiple reasons. Not least because the mobility of a class like thief will just ruin any “lane farming” in an instant.

Also the time to kill in gw2 can be too low for a moba.

SobeSoul.6910:

ESL and tournies =/= entire competitive base of players. I’ve been able to farewell against some of the people who play in those tournies. Not so much the very top players. However, I know there are guys like cmc who aren’t/weren’t regulars in the ESL in solo queue who can.

To count as ‘competitive’, you need to actually compete in something right? Not a lot of players do that anymore – primarily because there’s not a lot of incentive to jump straight into a competition against those same old top teams.

Even if the trebuchet is functioning like Khylo, we gotta ask ourselves the questions:
- Is it fun to use?
- Is it fun to watch?
I can’t put a check mark in either of those boxes. I don’t think it’s fun to use, and I don’t want to watch others use it.
I know that Khylo is used as a competitive map, but to be honest I think most players would like to be without the treb.
Why follow the same path of Khylo instead of trying to improve the game?

I hope the map is good enough to justify the $40 we are probably going to pay, since the PvP players won’t get anything else.

(except of a small set of skills for every profession disguised under a cool name)

Anyway, the game mode will probably be “half cooked”, Anet-style

depending on the rest of things, the treb could be a very important mechanic.

it could be necessary to FORCE the enemy team to get out of their base and fight you. like an anti-turtle mechanic that is only really useful when one team is being kittenes and bunkering up in their base.

or it could totally suck. it’s all in the execution for foresight of Anet’s team.

Opc.4718:

SobeSoul.6910:

ESL and tournies =/= entire competitive base of players. I’ve been able to farewell against some of the people who play in those tournies. Not so much the very top players. However, I know there are guys like cmc who aren’t/weren’t regulars in the ESL in solo queue who can.

To count as ‘competitive’, you need to actually compete in something right? Not a lot of players do that anymore – primarily because there’s not a lot of incentive to jump straight into a competition against those same old top teams.

That’s not what competitive means. To be competitive means you are a good opponent, not where and what you compete in.

one of the strategic, and earliest Guild Hall / GvG map in GW1 had trebuchets.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Warrior%27s_Isle

Similar in mechanic to Battle of Khylo, but instead of being used to attack the center of the map, it was pointed towards the bases.

ellesee.8297:

It’s been almost 3 years! Are you telling me that in almost 3 years the most hyped, most anticipated, best selling MMO can only produce ~20 people across 6 continents that can compete with one another! Silly! 3 years of terrible conquest and now possibly 3 more years of this new game mode that is more PvE than PvP with no actual competitive PvP in sight! I am so very sad!

Your understanding of what is PvP seems limited, the ‘v’ stands for versus which means competing against, not simply combat which seems to be your simplistic understanding of it.

As you’ve seemingly missed it, most of the games that have actually produced successful PvP formats like MOBAs, SC2, etc involve “PvE” as you put it.

Stronghold = FA + JQ in GW1

Nick.6972:

Here’s wondering why HA (Heroes’ Ascent), a simple Team Death Match with few extra mechanics did far more better in GW1 than GW2 is doing (PvP).
Why do they have to go after all these gimmicky game modes, mix moba, conquest, buffs, and all the other things.

Indeed, i just WANT, old way of GvG map, and i will play that for next 2 years…
Guild lord on each side, and 5 guards.. and no cap points, no treb, nothing (i know siege was in GW1 but for other meaning then doing AOE dmg on cap points), they were ment to destroy gate fast, rest was just pure Team VS Team no NPCs involved kitten, and it was AWESOME.

I just hate that players worry more about CAP points then actuall fights..

Firelysm.4967:

I just hate that players worry more about CAP points then actuall fights..

Jayden Ennok.3687:

Firelysm.4967:

I just hate that players worry more about CAP points then actuall fights..

According to http://www.pcgamer.com/guild-wars-2-heart-of-thorns-stronghold/

Now you may not even have to fight at all, just kill some NPCs and rotate to different lanes, and kill more NPCs

No more PvP in sPvP!

It’s just another sPvP map:
1 part Khylo
1 part Foe Fire
all fail

Moorecore.6349:

It’s just another sPvP map:
1 part Khylo
1 part Foe Fire
all fail

You can keep spamming that everywhere you go, it suddenly wont change the reality. So you might as well just suck it up.

Moorecore.6349:

It’s just another sPvP map:
1 part Khylo
1 part Foe Fire
all fail

Without a scoring mechanic and without cap points.
Which makes it a completely different gamemode that’ll play completely different than conquest.

displacedTitan.6897:

Please point to a game that is b2p and is very competitive.

CS:GO

displacedTitan.6897:

if you want pure competition, DOTA/LoL/CSGO are all out there and totally free

CS:GO is not free

I wish CSGO was free! I could get some wallhackz and if I got banned, I could just make a new account for freebies!

Wahoo! Bye frands!

I think if you ONLY use the Treb and do nothing else, you’re a terrible ally.

Morwath.9817:

Nick.6972:

Here’s wondering why HA (Heroes’ Ascent), a simple Team Death Match with few extra mechanics did far more better in GW1 than GW2 is doing (PvP).
Why do they have to go after all these gimmicky game modes, mix moba, conquest, buffs, and all the other things.

Because we don’t have Monks and proper supporters/interrupters.

This is the total and honest truth. The limiting factor is that there are no Monks. GW pvp (GvG/HA namely) was great, GW2 pvp is meh….

ellesee.8297:

WvW players don’t mind spending hours on a siege weapon!

And PvP players don´t mind spending hours standing on points, that´s equally boring tbh.

mordran.4750:

ellesee.8297:

WvW players don’t mind spending hours on a siege weapon!

And PvP players don´t mind spending hours standing on points, that´s equally boring tbh.

If you spend the whole match on one node and nothing else, you’re a terrible ally too.
Alos there’s a map in PVP featuring about using Treb too. The treb can totally change the tide of battle, and the treber need to be very wary about incoming assault. They have to be good at 1 v 1~2 too.

No wonder the recent PVP sucks, because there’re numerous people like you.

Aomine.5012:

mordran.4750:

ellesee.8297:

WvW players don’t mind spending hours on a siege weapon!

And PvP players don´t mind spending hours standing on points, that´s equally boring tbh.

If you spend the whole match on one node and nothing else, you’re a terrible ally too.
Alos there’s a map in PVP featuring about using Treb too. The treb can totally change the tide of battle, and the treber need to be very wary about incoming assault. They have to be good at 1 v 1~2 too.

No wonder the recent PVP sucks, because there’re numerous people like you.

Or people like you don’t understand how pvp works, you think PvP = conquest lol, that’s funny and sad at the same time. People like you make PvP as crap as it is right now on GW2.