Not sure all the hate for builds and finals? Yes the last match was a stomp, likely Adjourned was tilted. They haven’t lost matches in quite a long time and pro teams aren’t so much about builds to kill as it is about player movement and reactions on the map. You don’t need zerker burst builds in competitive play you need to play the points correctly and get downs off the point at the moment. Builds will always change with class balance, do we so easily forget when hambow was in its prime? Huge burst, cc, unkillable warriors… spirit rangers that never died. Outside of competitive gaming, almost any build works in soloQ and I’m pretty sure not everyone here is running with a 5 man premade.
For the record the matches between Adj vs Orng before the finals were stunning as was their first match. This game has better pvp than most mmorpgs atm, try to enjoy the game and understand builds will come and go, they won’t change as fast as you would like because development and class balance takes longer than you understand.
I like to call these types of responses “artificial sweetener”. You just typed a completely biased 3 paragraphs and told us things we already know.
Sure- i can make toolkit+elixer rifle work in SoloQ with the elixir elite (no turrets). This is all about consistency. Heck, i still role rifle/hammer warrior in SoloQ even though its prolly the worst tradeoff for power and mobility known to man. The problem is that some of the traits related to certain weapons or lack therof is not only bad, its blatant. Some of these mechanics lead me to beleive that the developers follow the same philosophy of a TCG and have 40% of everything completely abysmal and make a few things super good.
Thus you have all of this complexity to make it seem like a vast system when in reality you could simply cross out about half the possibilities or more, take whats left, and then find that only 5% of that actually works well.
In reality this game has 3 modes of play….PvE, WvW, and sPvP. All those skills and traits aren’t designed with just spvp in mind. You may argue there is no flexibility in term of choices in pvp and that can be true. Is it any different than any other pvp game? Class balancing patch gets implemented, a meta is created, and for that period of time that meta is played out.
To say there has been no change is wrong in my opinion. Bunker guards are non-existent now and the shift to medi hammer guard has appeared. Slowly things change, just think of these times as seasons in pvp. We will have to wait till next expansion for a significant change, but no matter what you will never satisfy the majority who are loud on the forums. Just remember a game with tons of classes, skills, and traits will never be balanced to your hearts’ content.
This entire game is pretty much a joke from the bad matchmaking, poor rewards and leaderboard, and the awful meta which of course would lead to boring tournaments where everyone plays the exact same thing.
Just off the top of my head there was supcutie playing mesmer, tage playing meditation guard and fraelina playing thief.
Excpetions always disprove a rule right?
Sustain builds were the most common, I’ll give you that, but you can’t say that everyone was playing one when the winner team comp had 2 berserker amulet users
I don’t understand the complaints! The meta has been the same since launch and it will never change because this is how the game mode is designed! Half your team builds to stand on point! The other half builds to explode other players! Teams have literally been doing this since launch! The team comps that exist now are no different! The DD Eles and shout Warriors stand on point while the other players roam and (de)cap points! It’s much more interesting now than 2-3 hambows and a spirit Ranger on every team and it’s much more action packed! If you disagree, it’s ok because in the end this game is boring as poop and we should all be slaying zambies anyway! Get good sons!
I don’t understand the complaints! The meta has been the same since launch and it will never change because this is how the game mode is designed! Half your team builds to stand on point! The other half builds to explode other players! Teams have literally been doing this since launch! The team comps that exist now are no different! The DD Eles and shout Warriors stand on point while the other players roam and (de)cap points! It’s much more interesting now than 2-3 hambows and a spirit Ranger on every team and it’s much more action packed! If you disagree, it’s ok because in the end this game is boring as poop and we should all be slaying zambies anyway! Get good sons!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Engi defending engi-dominated meta, now that’s a surprise.
@Nick
Btw warriors always have been in a “supporter” – and “assist” – role, he never has been good in bursting, not even in 2012 with frenzy and 100b, people just didn’t know it back then.
Uhhh no. Back when leg specialist had no icd, sword still had hamstring, and quickness was stronger + their servers didnt suck so bulls charge landed properly, during those times warrior was one of the top burst classes.
It had nothing to do with people having to l2play, it was simply strong. You could have all the strongest adrenaline based traits in a single spec, HB could hit very high and very fast, and the warrior had the tools to set this burst up by outplaying their opponent. It was very viable.
Just off the top of my head there was supcutie playing mesmer, tage playing meditation guard and fraelina playing thief.
You’re lying to everyone if you say those builds are not sustain. Those builds are designed to deal more dps than the celestial but are also designed to survive. You can’t give me one of these classes and tell me that they don’t have some sort of defensive trait.
No, a real haymaker/damage build is one that has almost no (or none) anti condition, healing, or dodge traits/skills. Similar to the rifle/hammer warrior, all-in dps powerhouse.
Sadly, as others have said in the past, thief has completely monopolized this area with the ability to be mobile, survive, AND dish out as much dps as the next best thing. Why is it that a class that can go invisible AND dodge can simply spam dodge to gain virtual invincibility while dealing more burst than a traited profession with little/no stealth, low mobility, and/or slower attacks. The math just doesn’t make sense, and neither do the mechanics.
Engi defending engi-dominated meta, now that’s a surprise.
As someone who doesn’t play the game anymore, I really couldn’t care less if Engineers were nerfed to the ground! But you are deluding yourself if you think this meta is worse than the others! 2-3 hambows + spirit Ranger on every single team! Yeah that sure was fun! Right now we see every single class being represented! Even classes that are considered extremely underpowered can be very powerful and useful if played well! Look at Eura on power Ranger! That is the very definition of good meta!
You’re lying to everyone if you say those builds are not sustain. Those builds are designed to deal more dps than the celestial but are also designed to survive. You can’t give me one of these classes and tell me that they don’t have some sort of defensive trait.
No, a real haymaker/damage build is one that has almost no (or none) anti condition, healing, or dodge traits/skills. Similar to the rifle/hammer warrior, all-in dps powerhouse.
Sadly, as others have said in the past, thief has completely monopolized this area with the ability to be mobile, survive, AND dish out as much dps as the next best thing. Why is it that a class that can go invisible AND dodge can simply spam dodge to gain virtual invincibility while dealing more burst than a traited profession with little/no stealth, low mobility, and/or slower attacks. The math just doesn’t make sense, and neither do the mechanics.
Lol while fun to play, conquest is not a game mode where full glass cannon builds succeed! This is true for any objective based team game! Not only that but with the lack of healers and the rally system, even going down can severely cost your whole team! Your QQ is not justified!
As someone who doesn’t play the game anymore, I really couldn’t care less if Engineers were nerfed to the ground! But you are deluding yourself if you think this meta is worse than the others! 2-3 hambows + spirit Ranger on every single team!
Bring back PvP is all I can say, GW1 PvP, where you actually had to you know… player verse player, where creativity, team composition, communication, and skill mattered. Get rid of the PvE and gimmicks and builds designed to turn pvp into pve.
And separate team and solo pvp for kittens sake! How can so much progress be made in pve design, and so much progress be LOST in pvp design.
Bring back PvP is all I can say, GW1 PvP, where you actually had to you know… player verse player, where creativity, team composition, communication, and skill mattered.
This is very misleading. Which part of GW1 PvP are you referring to? JQ? FA? GvG? Or do those not count as GW1 PvP? Because each of those modes had important NPC aspects… you know.
Are you serious about “creativity, team composition, communication and skill” not mattering in GW2 PvP? Please play a few games with a random bunch of people with a bad composition, bad builds, no communication against a team that is built up with certain roles, with the right builds for those roles in mind, and flawless communication. I’m curious what the result would be.
The biggest things this game needs are more frequent balance updates and a decent PvP infrastructure (leaderboards etc.). The only thing that’s really wrong with the current meta is that it hasn’t changed in a very long time. A fluctuating meta is what keeps games interesting.
When I play Ranger and get the advantage on thief (see them and attacks 1st) I normally almost always win the exchange. The amount of immobilize and interrupts and pure power is more then enough to blow up a thief. Feels like it doesn’t matter what the meta is some people (with a grudge) are going to complain. And to say EVERY BUILD has to be good and viable is just crazy talk.
This is an RPG, there should be numerous viable playstyles and builds(bunker, bruiser, glass cannon, ranged, condition, support, etc), the problem is when one single class or two has complete monopoly over a playstyle. Example: Thief makes pretty much all glass cannons essentially unviable and a liability.
Or, bruisers completely overshadow support, pure condition specs(arguably) and bunkers.
The problem is that there will NEVER be a way to get what you want and have all players balanced 1v1. its impossible. IF you remove thief Glass cannon, then you remove the thiefs identity as an assassin, and he becomes so much less. Then theif zerker just gets replaced by all the other zerkers that were unviable before etc etc, and the process repeats itself.
This is an RPG, there should be numerous viable playstyles and builds(bunker, bruiser, glass cannon, ranged, condition, support, etc), the problem is when one single class or two has complete monopoly over a playstyle. Example: Thief makes pretty much all glass cannons essentially unviable and a liability.
Or, bruisers completely overshadow support, pure condition specs(arguably) and bunkers.
The problem is that there will NEVER be a way to get what you want and have all players balanced 1v1. its impossible. IF you remove thief Glass cannon, then you remove the thiefs identity as an assassin, and he becomes so much less. Then theif zerker just gets replaced by all the other zerkers that were unviable before etc etc, and the process repeats itself.
This game isn’t and won’t ever be balanced around 1v1. That is never the intent of the devs, why do you seem to think it is?
This is an RPG, there should be numerous viable playstyles and builds(bunker, bruiser, glass cannon, ranged, condition, support, etc), the problem is when one single class or two has complete monopoly over a playstyle. Example: Thief makes pretty much all glass cannons essentially unviable and a liability.
Or, bruisers completely overshadow support, pure condition specs(arguably) and bunkers.
The problem is that there will NEVER be a way to get what you want and have all players balanced 1v1. its impossible. IF you remove thief Glass cannon, then you remove the thiefs identity as an assassin, and he becomes so much less. Then theif zerker just gets replaced by all the other zerkers that were unviable before etc etc, and the process repeats itself.
This game isn’t and won’t ever be balanced around 1v1. That is never the intent of the devs, why do you seem to think it is?
If you actually read anything anyone was saying, i believe the complete opposite, and was telling that to the guy i replied. 1v1 will never be balanced, if it was, classes wouldn’t matter and it would be stale and boring.
Besides the comeback (which would be exciting in any game) the game was just as dull to watch as it is to play in sPvP. Everyone playing 100% safe builds with no haymakers and a ton of conditions.
PVP in this game is boring, period. That’s why I have no want to watch it or play it.
RNG is a bell curve. Better hope you’re on the right side.
This is an RPG, there should be numerous viable playstyles and builds(bunker, bruiser, glass cannon, ranged, condition, support, etc), the problem is when one single class or two has complete monopoly over a playstyle. Example: Thief makes pretty much all glass cannons essentially unviable and a liability.
Or, bruisers completely overshadow support, pure condition specs(arguably) and bunkers.
The problem is that there will NEVER be a way to get what you want and have all players balanced 1v1. its impossible. IF you remove thief Glass cannon, then you remove the thiefs identity as an assassin, and he becomes so much less. Then theif zerker just gets replaced by all the other zerkers that were unviable before etc etc, and the process repeats itself.
This game isn’t and won’t ever be balanced around 1v1. That is never the intent of the devs, why do you seem to think it is?
If you actually read anything anyone was saying, i believe the complete opposite, and was telling that to the guy i replied. 1v1 will never be balanced, if it was, classes wouldn’t matter and it would be stale and boring.
I would see as another way, I would know that I lost because I got outskilled. 1v1 balance is exclusiv to FPS games because they don’t follow archetypes which themselves carry unbalance, that type of balance would get rid of optimal class,group and class discrimination,and leave the devs with extra time for content .
Boring? Not at all you could easily change the graphic and action of the skill to give it a theme like a blue light burns so would a burning arrow,a specific venom,a bomb..and so on. No mmo can be balanced 1v1 as long as they carry archetypes.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
So nothing really changed from Condi meta or hell back when D/D was the kitten at release? Limited amulet sets dominating followed by a handful of sets and questionable class viability (or at least representation)?
What you’re going to ask them to nerf Celestial (which used to be booty cheeks), so it’ll be another set of amulets, ala when it was Soldiers, when it was Zerkers or when it was Rabid/Carion gear? Meh.
My belief walking away from the game that was the lack of real base damage on power damage was at odds with Condition damage, having a Base + Scaling based on the condition, healing skills having a Base + scaling and health having a base + Scaling.
That and a buttload of false options.
Seems this thread is no where near on topic might be time for it to take a dirt nap.
-Completely Offtopic note: How is booty allow through the filter but a word for excrement that rhymes with curd is not?
Because either you like pirates or you like butts, unless in the case you like both, but given putting them together is censored…its to allow booty pirates?
Seems this thread is no where near on topic might be time for it to take a dirt nap.
-Completely Offtopic note: How is booty allow through the filter but a word for excrement that rhymes with curd is not?
Why is there even a swear filter for the forum of a video game where primary objectives include poaching wildlife to near extinction and mercilessly and brutally killing other players for sport and monetary gains!
Sure you can drink this Elonian moonshine if you’re underage and brutally destroy this WvW newb and then throw 8 ballistas on his corpse BUT GOSHDARN IT IF YOU SO MUCH AS THINK ABOUT SWEARING YOU’RE BANNED!
Seems this thread is no where near on topic might be time for it to take a dirt nap.
-Completely Offtopic note: How is booty allow through the filter but a word for excrement that rhymes with curd is not?
Why is there even a swear filter for the forum of a video game where primary objectives include poaching wildlife to near extinction and mercilessly and brutally killing other players for sport and monetary gains!
Sure you can drink this Elonian moonshine if you’re underage and brutally destroy this WvW newb and then throw 8 ballistas on his corpse BUT GOSHDARN IT IF YOU SO MUCH AS THINK ABOUT SWEARING YOU’RE BANNED!
Wahoo! Bye frands!
Here in America there are only two evil things: naked people and swear words.
Would you rather watch glass vs glass or condi vs condi matchups?
oRNG proved that sustainable builds can get bursted down, quite easily, if done right. It didn’t look like Celestial vs Celestial at all.
As far as the mechanics you don’t like, it’s been in the game for 2+ years. That’s likely not going to change.
I’ll be the first to say that I was wrong about these certain classes that I thought were OP. Clearly from the tournament, they can be outplayed given the right comp.
oRNG just proved that you can kill a glass necro over and over again.
I wonder would it made any difference if NOS gone with toughness and lot of protection instead of going HP and glass cannon.
NOS was down in all team fights, he has was the only one with no escapes and no sustain, then all fights were 4 vs 5.
oRNG just proved that you can kill a glass necro over and over again.
I wonder would it made any difference if NOS gone with toughness and lot of protection instead of going HP and glass cannon.
NOS was down in all team fights, he has was the only one with no escapes and no sustain, then all fights were 4 vs 5.
I like how it works.
If Nos would kill someone, then it would be 5v5.
When Nos get rekt, then it’s 4v5.
Because Glass Cannon.
BestFan2015.
In guild wars current state, no one 1vs1 skills kills somebody in team fight. In team fight you focus fire someone and if this person does not have enough cc break, defense, sustain or will not be supported enough from the team will die.
So you can turn the words as much as you like, NOS (or its build) was the weak link and oRNG abused it.
Or do you propose they focus all the time NOS while they hate him?
They could not kill 2 D/D Ele’s in a team fight and they didn’t not try, you can’t kill that easily kill a S/D Thief also, so they didn’t try, you can’t kill a Cele Engi that easily also so again they didn’t try, but you can kill a glass cannon necro and they did over and over again.
You don’t get it, fan.
There is nothing to abuse.
In every online game, you always focus the most dangerous opponent.
And it’s always a squishy spike holder.
It’s not about “you can’t kill that easily”.
Powermancer has the biggest spikes in team fights.
DS Life Blast crits for 3k+.
Lich form Deathly Claws crit for ~7k+.
Wells hit hard as well and remove precious boons.
So, since #1 it’s the most dangerous and #2 it’s the squishiest, is enough to focus and gain free 5 points per rekt.
You don’t get it, fan.
There is nothing to abuse.
In every online game, you always focus the most dangerous opponent.
And it’s always a squishy spike holder.
It’s not about “you can’t kill that easily”.
Powermancer has the biggest spikes in team fights.
DS Life Blast crits for 3k+.
Lich form Deathly Claws crit for ~7k+.
Wells hit hard as well and remove precious boons.
So, since #1 it’s the most dangerous and #2 it’s the squishiest, is enough to focus and gain free 5 points per rekt.
There is only one fan boy here and it is you, somehow you are in love with oRNG, you forum warrior.
Tage is one of my all time favorite players in Guild Wars 2, he is an awesome player and complete gentlemen, which I can’t say for everybody here.
I think everyone, except ANET, has realized that cele has been OP for a long time. Instead ANET took the easy way out, and tried to change might stacking.
They really need a balance team.
Cele is not op what is OP is conditions hence why condition bunkers have been rampant and Resistance might balane that out so who knows
theres also player skill as i run a Power bunker build and still beat necros mesmers and win some 3 v 1s by predicting what the cheesebuild runners will do thats how overused the meta has been that i can tell when an enemy wants to do something
I think everyone, except ANET, has realized that cele has been OP for a long time. Instead ANET took the easy way out, and tried to change might stacking.
They really need a balance team.
Cele is not op what is OP is conditions hence why condition bunkers have been rampant and Resistance might balane that out so who knows
theres also player skill as i run a Power bunker build and still beat necros mesmers and win some 3 v 1s by predicting what the cheesebuild runners will do thats how overused the meta has been that i can tell when an enemy wants to do something
Wut?? I am more interested in the revenant boon hate ability which is the #1 counter to cele, necro was supposed to keep then in control but nah revenant will get it because they read necro forums…look at their condition potential…so far.
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140 The Dhuumfire thread
Some celestial ele player actually made a video proposing the exact nerfs to might they implemented. The most bias video ever… they actually did it. The guy wanted to do ANYTHING .. Nerf ANYTHING except a direct nerf to builds that use celestials. The worst possible change was nerfing might… and they did it.
Balance team “Hmmmm. Seems like ele’s and engis are really OP with this celestial amulet… lets hear what other cele users have to say”
At this juncture only 1 possible thought failure could have occured:
- They thought that engi’s and elementalist’s where the only classes that used might in the game.
In a scenario where reason was involved, some guy would step in and say “Hey, wait a second. If we nerf just might it won’t really change much and we’ll also be nerfing classes and builds that don’t use celestial amulet…”
Maybe that guy did show up and was hung for heresy.
serous answer for mesmer:
you are pretty much need to go glass cannon to do any significant of damage.
no real burst like other class, not counting shatter but that still require three illusion which are easily destroy.
lolwut? gs 2 + gs3 + f1 on top of someone is basically on par with a thief backstab. Idk why people still think mesmer burst comes from sword2 and 3 clone shattering.
gs2 – gs3 – f1 – swap – other weapon set burst (sword 2, staff 5, ect…) + a few interrupts usually results in death against most classes. The problem with mesmer is that it’s burst is much harder to get off, it’s like playing thief but having to land 5 different skills instead of 3. And it sucks at fighting on point because it doesn’t have reliable damage mitigation, eg; thief dagger/pistol 3 or 5 for blinds. It’s a great class for pub stomping against noobs that don’t know how to target you, but against anyone with a brain it’s sort of outclassed vs thief. Theif can also cover a map better since portal is bound to 1 point.
