Guild Wars 2

It’s only “bad” when combined with a low player population and the inability to lose divisions.

To a degree you are right. If the pip system was different it wouldn’t be so bad. In season 1 if you won 5 or 6 out of 10 games you could go up a tier. This season only have 1 or 2 pips to show for it. Even if they fixed it would still be discouraging for people who are on the bottom rung.

And making the game unplayable for 21 hours a day is plain stupidity. With S2 there’s no way the Anet can make offpeak games more balanced without making queue times longer. So the playerpool decreases and to compensate they increase the pip range compounding the problem of snowball matches. Less people play so queue times go up. It’s a vicious cycle. It will never work.

no is not bad, is horrible

a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and against a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions

making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem

megilandil.7506:

no is not bad, is horrible

a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and again a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions

making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem

Matchmaking is based of pip range first of all. In the end winners will move on beyond your pip range. ’So less and less good players ppl with super high winrates will be left at your pip range.

And what do u think is fair? Mixing teams up? So a few get carried hard while others have to carry hard …..yet they will be treated equally reward wise (eventho that carrying guy might be 2-3 times as good).

Locuz.2651:

megilandil.7506:

no is not bad, is horrible

a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and again a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions

making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem

Matchmaking is based of pip range first of all. In the end winners will move on beyond your pip range. ’So less and less good players ppl with super high winrates will be left at your pip range.

And what do u think is fair? Mixing teams up? So a few get carried hard while others have to carry hard …..yet they will be treated equally reward wise (eventho that carrying guy might be 2-3 times as good).

a league is a league and the sistem i said is league sistem, the mmr clausule aded is a trick to rig the sistem to favour “high skilled” players but this kittens the essence of league sistems, it can be introduced week one or two to wash out the pros from low divs or make these pros starts in a upper div depending of div reached in pasts leagues but making these trick during all league only makes kitten

and in pure random league only some too lucky ones “bad players” get carried

This MM is at least really unique,tell me another game were ‘’mmr hell’’ is a think or you need to add your enemy team to your friend list so you dont get them again in next game

megilandil.7506:

no is not bad, is horrible

a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and against a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions

making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem

1) It should cross divisions like it currently does. It would not be fair for those on the lower end of the division to be paired against those on the higher end. A closer match would be between those at the lower end for the next division and those on the higher division of the previous.

2) What you want is completely even teams is difficult unless there’s a large enough population in the queue at any given time. Unless you’re willing to sit in queue for an extended period of time, you’re going to get matches that have a wider range of skill level and team comps.

Locuz.2651:

megilandil.7506:

no is not bad, is horrible

a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and again a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions

making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem

Matchmaking is based of pip range first of all. In the end winners will move on beyond your pip range. ’So less and less good players ppl with super high winrates will be left at your pip range.

And what do u think is fair? Mixing teams up? So a few get carried hard while others have to carry hard …..yet they will be treated equally reward wise (eventho that carrying guy might be 2-3 times as good).

Theory is so much different from practice. I give not one whit about ‘pip range’. It does NOTHING without addressing the matching system.

Ayrilana.1396:

megilandil.7506:

no is not bad, is horrible

a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and against a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions

making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem

1) It should cross divisions like it currently does. It would not be fair for those on the lower end of the division to be paired against those on the higher end. A closer match would be between those at the lower end for the next division and those on the higher division of the previous.

2) What you want is completely even teams is difficult unless there’s a large enough population in the queue at any given time. Unless you’re willing to sit in queue for an extended period of time, you’re going to get matches that have a wider range of skill level and team comps.

1) then the term “divisions” is inapropiate: a player only has to play with players of the same div(exception made probably of the last pips to show they cant be in sup division, a class of “promotion play” and if they are a posible loss of div this only can ocurr after losing matches agains players of the lower div) as it ocurrs on many sports that made leagues div divided
2) even teams can ocurr at mid season wen players are alocated fine in divisions and stop when you get your top

the main problem to div sistem are :
1) premades that disrupt the play last season they adjust premade to the low rank or to a ponderate rank of the players and this was exploited by “pros” taking alt acounts whith low rank to lower the rank of team and get ez wins, now it gets the higer rank and that disrups that you can get someone of your rank playing whith his no handed friend kitening your entire game
2)reward sistem ( same reward in all divs) make top player not to stay in their divs and take alts to troll in lower divs

Agemnon.4608:

It’s only “bad” when combined with a low player population and the inability to lose divisions.

100% wrong. The matchmaking is terrible. Win or lose, there are too many games that result in a blowout.

Also, the divisions issue only exists because of the profession achievements required for the wings. People tend to work on those when “safe”. A better solution is to remove those achievements.

style.6173:

Agemnon.4608:

It’s only “bad” when combined with a low player population and the inability to lose divisions.

100% wrong. The matchmaking is terrible. Win or lose, there are too many games that result in a blowout.

Also, the divisions issue only exists because of the profession achievements required for the wings. People tend to work on those when “safe”. A better solution is to remove those achievements.

Which is caused by the relaxed criteria for matchmaking so there would be shorter queue times. This was done because there just isn’t a large enough player polo lagoon at any given time and even given skill level to give an even match consistently.

We’re also not taking into account that people are not as good as they think they are. They have terrible team comps. Got carried to where they are.

None of this was a problem with balanced matchmaking.

Losing divisions wouldn’t really help, since the issue that’s messing everything up, is the mixture of rewards track and league progression.
It’s a horrible idea. Especially with the MMR that gives wins to those that keep winning. I’m personally sick and tired of joining a game and knowing full well before everyone has clicked ready, that I’m gonna be losing a pip this round. Doesn’t have anything to do with team comp, I can just feel that I’m in the B team. The game thinks i’m bad, so i keep getting the same horrible teammates.

If they wanted to mix a league progression and reward track.. then this was the worst way. How could they not see this would lead to a lot of grieving and frustration.. Did they really believe that people would gladly get farmed a over and over, without ever getting a fair shot?
No. No one volunteers to be farmed!
Everyone wants a fair shot, at every turn. This matchmaking is based on removing that shot before the game even begins.
Horrible design decision.

They need to separate these two things. if they wanted a reward track, that’s fine. But in the end they need a separate track for actual player skill that would divide those with higher skill quicker into higher divs, and those with lower to lower.
Now everyone is at the same level until ruby, where things change slightly, but if you’ve struggled to get to ruby, you’ll get farmed forever within that tier. You won’t ever get out, simply because the game remembers how much you’ve lost and that you’re clearly a bad player. doesn’t matter if you start getting better, because your teammates clearly haven’t..
Losing divisions at that point wouldn’t help. Since the MMR hell is already in effect. You’ll just get bumped further and further and slotted with every single bad player until you’re at the start of amber again, and can’t even get past the first tier. because every teammate you’re getting at that point will be a bucktooth sisterkittener from the country, who continually bashes his head against the keyboarding, thinking it’ll help.

They need a new way of determining player skill. You can’t solely judge it by winning or losing matches. If they figure that out, and remove the stupid reward track/progression mix, then the next season might be playable.

Here’s a thought.
You could possibly keep the track as 3-4 wins = tier reward. 10-15 = division reward.
But lose the pips and using the division reward as a climb/lowering mechanic.
then add a player skill tracker that would determine division lowering or raising depending on how you play, the player skill of those you beat, get beaten by etc.
Possibly add a commendation system after matches as well. Can only vote on those outside if your party. Getting a lot of commendations/MVP votes could also add to player skill, since you’d be recognized through game play that you played a vital role.

This could leave “elite skilled uber amazing pvp” players in their legendary division beating each other up much quicker, and getting larger rewards for their tier and division rewards. and the PvE crowd that’s just in it for the rewards, would keep their skill level low, only climbing from time to time, only to be lowered because of actually meeting tougher opponents. Having to win more low tier/division rewards to get the same stuff, IE Wings, as the top divisions.

There has to be better ways then the current clusterkitten that we have… please.. go back to the drawing board.

Dyze.1580:

Losing divisions wouldn’t really help, since the issue that’s messing everything up, is the mixture of rewards track and league progression. It’s a horrible idea.

Leagues is not a reward track. It’s not supposed to work like what you’re suggesting.

Dyze.1580:

Especially with the MMR that gives wins to those that keep winning.

As opposed to people who win getting losses? I thought people who win are supposed to get wins…

Dyze.1580:

I’m personally sick and tired of joining a game and knowing full well before everyone has clicked ready, that I’m gonna be losing a pip this round. Doesn’t have anything to do with team comp, I can just feel that I’m in the B team. The game thinks i’m bad, so i keep getting the same horrible teammates.

Player names determine the outcome of a match? You ruled out team comp which is really the only thing that is actually meaningful before a match in determining that. Team comp does very much play a significant role in whether a team wins or loses. That and the ability of the team to work together by having decent rotations.

Dyze.1580:

If they wanted to mix a league progression and reward track.. then this was the worst way.

Good thing they weren’t then.

Dyze.1580:

How could they not see this would lead to a lot of grieving and frustration.. Did they really believe that people would gladly get farmed a over and over, without ever getting a fair shot?
No. No one volunteers to be farmed!
Everyone wants a fair shot, at every turn. This matchmaking is based on removing that shot before the game even begins.
Horrible design decision.

They get farmed over and over if they’re beyond where they should be. It’s also exacerbated at times when there are not enough people in the queue so they get paired with people of mixed skills in order to have reduced queue times.

Everyone does have a fair shot at winning assuming they can work together as a team, have a decent team comp, and know how to play. You’re not going to get a win simply by showing up.

Dyze.1580:

They need to separate these two things. if they wanted a reward track, that’s fine. But in the end they need a separate track for actual player skill that would divide those with higher skill quicker into higher divs, and those with lower to lower.

They already have the bolded. No need for reward tracks as we already have those since before leagues.

Dyze.1580:

Now everyone is at the same level until ruby, where things change slightly, but if you’ve struggled to get to ruby, you’ll get farmed forever within that tier. You won’t ever get out, simply because the game remembers how much you’ve lost and that you’re clearly a bad player. doesn’t matter if you start getting better, because your teammates clearly haven’t..

People have done the math. You will get out of whatever rut you’re in.

Ayrilana.1396:

Everyone does have a fair shot at winning assuming they can work together as a team, have a decent team comp, and know how to play. You’re not going to get a win simply by showing up.

you clairly havent read how works the machmaking this season

megilandil.7506:

Ayrilana.1396:

Everyone does have a fair shot at winning assuming they can work together as a team, have a decent team comp, and know how to play. You’re not going to get a win simply by showing up.

you clairly havent read how works the machmaking this season

Or you haven’t.

Ayrilana.1396:

Everyone does have a fair shot at winning assuming they can work together as a team, have a decent team comp, and know how to play.

So, you’re saying that everyone has a fair shot at winning, assuming they are a premade, or fulfill some requirements they have no control over when soloqueuing. Sure, in that case you not only have a fair shot at winning. You are expected to win (because you are most likely in the designated winners team).

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not going to get a win simply by showing up.

In this season i have been in many matches where i could have akitten the whole game and still win.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Everyone does have a fair shot at winning assuming they can work together as a team, have a decent team comp, and know how to play.

So, you’re saying that everyone has a fair shot at winning, assuming they are a premade, or fulfill some requirements they have no control over when soloqueuing. Sure, in that case you not only have a fair shot at winning. You are expected to win (because you are most likely in the designated winners team).

Ayrilana.1396:

You’re not going to get a win simply by showing up.

In this season i have been in many matches where i could have akitten the whole game and still win.

Some people did the math and found it to be true. And please look at what I specfically stated in what you quoted.

And you got lucky and were carried. You cannot expect this to happen every time and then complain when it doesn’t. For most matches you will have to put in a little more effort than that.

jessiestiles.9437:

None of this was a problem with balanced matchmaking.

What are you talking about? The way they did it season 1? Yeah no one complained about that at all they just totally revamped it for season 2 on a whim. Plenty of people complained about MMR averaging teams and if they go back to it plenty will be very displeased.

A lot of baseless claims being made in this thread. I guess we’ll see what changes they have coming soon. I think a lot of you will be disappointed because I do not believe they will be going back to MMR averaging teams. If they do that they will be moving further away from the idea that league placement equals skill. I would imagine some changes to smooth out MMR hell for the people that are actually experiencing it, probably bringing back no pip loss for close games, and starting people out in higher leagues if they finished in diamond or legendary. Those are the types of things I see happening. But changing the idea that you will be grouped with people your skill level and face people near you in the league that is 100% sound in theory, even if in practice it needs refining, and because of that I don’t believe that aspect will be changed.

I lost 20 games in a row. Then I got a lucky win. Won the next 4 matches, then in the fifth match someone on my team went afk so we lost. Then lost another 10 matches.

Not sure if MMR or bad luck.

It’s not horrible but it isn’t great either. When you lose in diamond 540 to 0 in legecy of the foefire there is an issue with the MMR. It’ s not a l2p issue.

Ayrilana.1396:

Some people did the math and found it to be true.

True that the system is broken and unfair? Yeah, saw that thread, saw dev acknowledgment of the conclusion in it too.

Ayrilana.1396:

And you got lucky and were carried.

Sure. That shouldn’t happen (or at least not very often). And yet currently blowouts are significantly more likely to happen than balanced matches.

Ayrilana.1396:

For most matches you will have to put in a little more effort than that.

If only.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Some people did the math and found it to be true.

True that the system is broken and unfair? Yeah, saw that thread, saw dev acknowledgment of the conclusion in it too.

Ayrilana.1396:

And you got lucky and were carried.

Sure. That shouldn’t happen (or at least not very often). And yet currently blowouts are significantly more likely to happen than balanced matches.

Ayrilana.1396:

For most matches you will have to put in a little more effort than that.

If only.

I don’t remember them coming to the conclusion that it was broken and unfair.

Evidence that blowouts are more likely to happen?

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t remember them coming to the conclusion that it was broken and unfair.

This is the thread
Dev acknowledgment is few posts down.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t remember them coming to the conclusion that it was broken and unfair.

This is the thread
Dev acknowledgment is few posts down.

They didn’t say that the MMR system was broken or unfair.

brannigan.9831:

jessiestiles.9437:

None of this was a problem with balanced matchmaking.

What are you talking about? The way they did it season 1? Yeah no one complained about that at all they just totally revamped it for season 2 on a whim. Plenty of people complained about MMR averaging teams and if they go back to it plenty will be very displeased.

Read the post before my post.

Ayrilana.1396:

For most matches you will have to put in a little more effort than that.

This comment is just wrong. At times its nearly every second game you have someone afk, or someone running far the whole match and dying every time, or a complete steamroll or something else game changing. Then the other half of the time its the other team having these issues.

You’d have to experience it to understand.

jessiestiles.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

For most matches you will have to put in a little more effort than that.

This comment is just wrong. At times its nearly every second game you have someone afk, or someone running far the whole match and dying every time, or a complete steamroll or something else game changing. Then the other half of the time its the other team having these issues.

You’d have to experience it to understand.

Read my posts and don’t take one single statement from a post out of context please.

Yes you are right I did. But still how is someone supposed to play under those conditions?

jessiestiles.9437:

Yes you are right I did. But still how is someone supposed to play under those conditions?

You can’t but that’s not the fault of the system. It can’t put you with players that do not give up. It can’t put you with players who choose who actually want to play as a team in a given match. It has no control over the behaviors and actions of players in that particular instance.

Well it is in a way. Last season people giving up wasn’t nearly as common. Because it created balanced games people didn’t feel like the game was already decided at the start of a match.

jessiestiles.9437:

Well it is in a way. Last season people giving up wasn’t nearly as common. Because it created balanced games people didn’t feel like the game was already decided at the start of a match.

I’ve seen people give up upon losing the first team fight. I’ve seen people claim the match is lost after the first team fight and we end up winning. Whether a match is balanced or not doesn’t matter if there are people expecting easy wins.

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t remember them coming to the conclusion that it was broken and unfair.

This is the thread
Dev acknowledgment is few posts down.

They didn’t say that the MMR system was broken or unfair.

Then i’d advise you to read the conclusions more carefully.

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

Astralporing.1957:

Ayrilana.1396:

I don’t remember them coming to the conclusion that it was broken and unfair.

This is the thread
Dev acknowledgment is few posts down.

They didn’t say that the MMR system was broken or unfair.

Then i’d advise you to read the conclusions more carefully.

I suggest you read their post again. Stating that there are problems doesn’t mean that the system itself is broken. Stating that they’ll try to improve player experience doesn’t mean that the system is broken.

I suggest reading my response to Dyze again. One of the issues that I pointed out is the lack of player population at a given time for a given skill level. In order to have reduced queue times, the range of allowable players is extended. One of the thing that the OP in the thread stated that eliminated the so-called MMR Hell is a larger population. I think it was the first thing that they brought up before talking about teams.

Lack of player population at certain times isn’t the fault of the system. Could it account for that better so that those during the off-times could have more even matches? Sure but it may likely come at the cost of longer queue times. It could come down to which is worse: wasting time in pointless matches or wasting time sitting in HotM waiting for a match.

Ayrilana.1396:

jessiestiles.9437:

Well it is in a way. Last season people giving up wasn’t nearly as common. Because it created balanced games people didn’t feel like the game was already decided at the start of a match.

I’ve seen people give up upon losing the first team fight. I’ve seen people claim the match is lost after the first team fight and we end up winning. Whether a match is balanced or not doesn’t matter if there are people expecting easy wins.

Ah yeh.. same here. However I’ve never seen someone deliberately afk on a game that could be won 4v5. It’s more like they were feeling unconfident after midfight and kept playing and we won.

But I am suprised by your answer because it’s not really relevant to what we’re talking about.

jessiestiles.9437:

Ayrilana.1396:

jessiestiles.9437:

Well it is in a way. Last season people giving up wasn’t nearly as common. Because it created balanced games people didn’t feel like the game was already decided at the start of a match.

I’ve seen people give up upon losing the first team fight. I’ve seen people claim the match is lost after the first team fight and we end up winning. Whether a match is balanced or not doesn’t matter if there are people expecting easy wins.

Ah yeh.. same here. However I’ve never seen someone deliberately afk on a game that could be won 4v5. It’s more like they were feeling unconfident after midfight and kept playing and we won.

But I am suprised by your answer because it’s not really relevant to what we’re talking about.

You brought up that topic, not me.

I see that’s fine. You ignore the issues you don’t have an answer for.

And of course the system is broken. If you can’t play outside of 3 hours a day on the internet that is worldwide and open 24 hours I don’t know how more broken it could be. The devs acknowledge this.

jessiestiles.9437:

I see that’s fine. You ignore the issues you don’t have an answer for.

And of course the system is broken. If you can’t play outside of 3 hours a day on the internet that is worldwide and open 24 hours I don’t know how more broken it could be. The devs acknowledge this.

I’m not ignoring issues. You stated that my post was off topic when it was a response to something you had brought up.

Please link where the devs said that the system was broken. Again, please make sure to understand what broken really means and if it’s actually an issue with the system itself and not an outside factor. All they stated was that they saw some problems (doesn’t mean the system is broken) and will try to better balance player experience with their Anet’s expectations on where they want things to go. This isn’t an anknowledgement that the MMR system is broken.

As far as the last part of your post, think of it the following way. You have skill levels ranging from 1 to 10. At a given time, there only happens to be 100 players in queue but only 5 that are at your skill level. Should the system wait until there’s more people at your skill level before forming a match (longer queue) or should it expand the range and pull players from skill levels just lower or above you (shorter queue time)? People want balanced matches but they assume that at any given time, for any given skill level, that they will get those. The system cannot magically produce players at a skill level who do not exist.

Someone created a statistical analysis of the current system and showed that if you queue outside of primetime you are put into mmr hell. Excedingly unbalanced matches. The devs thanked the original poster and acknowledged this was a problem they plan to fix for next season.

That is not an outside factor. The system cannot function as intended 21 hours a day. That’s broken.

Still the important bit is the part you glossed over. How can you keep a system that creates imbalanced games in a low playerpool with a wide variation in mmr and also create balanced matches at the same time? Did you really think about this?

jessiestiles.9437:

Someone created a statistical analysis of the current system and showed that if you queue outside of primetime you are put into mmr hell. Excedingly unbalanced matches. The devs thanked the original poster and acknowledged this was a problem they plan to fix for next season.

That is not an outside factor. The system cannot function as intended 21 hours a day. That’s broken.

Still the important bit is the part you glossed over. How can you keep a system that creates imbalanced games in a low playerpool with a wide variation in mmr and also create balanced matches at the same time? Did you really think about this?

The dev never directly responded to that part of the post. They only said that they have identified problems and will try to resolve them. This in no way implies that it was a result of the OP. For all we know, Anet could have been fully aware before the thread was even created.

Yes it is. The system cannot control what input comes in. In most systems, if bad data goes in, bad data tends to come out. The system itself is not broken. It is doing exactly what it was designed to do. As I have stated, which you have glossed over, if there’s not enough players at a given time for given skill level, you’re not going to get an ergen match unless you extend the queue time for them until there are more players that meet that criteria. It’s not the system’s fault.

As far as the second part, there may just be more players of a given skill level than another. Not all players are pooled together. Had you read my previous post, you’d have seen that I had already addressed this.

Basically what you are saying is a system that doesn’t work most of the time it isn’t the systems fault. Wouldn’t the smart thing to do is create a system that does work all the time.

And yes I read your posts but didn’t see any solution to this.

jessiestiles.9437:

Someone created a statistical analysis of the current system and showed that if you queue outside of primetime you are put into mmr hell. Excedingly unbalanced matches. The devs thanked the original poster and acknowledged this was a problem they plan to fix for next season.

That is not an outside factor. The system cannot function as intended 21 hours a day. That’s broken.

Still the important bit is the part you glossed over. How can you keep a system that creates imbalanced games in a low playerpool with a wide variation in mmr and also create balanced matches at the same time? Did you really think about this?

There were a number of big takeaways from that thread. The red post said, and I quote:

“We recognize the problems that the season 2 matchmaking is causing and are looking into solutions that will provide a good experience and satisfy our goals for the league system”

I would shy away from cherry picking one of the many points that the OP touched in that thread, and claim that a Dev acknowledged specifically this as one of the problems he was referring to.

For all we know, ArenaNet could not consider everything mentioned in that thread an issue. Some, undoubtedly.

The main issue to be taken from the OP was that mmr hell exists outside of primetime. So try again.

jessiestiles.9437:

Basically what you are saying is a system that doesn’t work most of the time it isn’t the systems fault. Wouldn’t the smart thing to do is create a system that does work all the time.

And yes I read your posts but didn’t see any solution to this.

The problem is in order to have even matches all of the time, you need to have a large enough player population at all times in queue. The OP in that thread stated that they observed “MMR Hell” disappear when all players played at the same time. Of course this is unlikely to happen. There is no system that can produce even matches when there are not enough players that fit the given criteria to do so.

And no, I’m not saying that the system isn’t working.

Of course they can. That’s the whole point of a balanced matchmaking system. Dota is hugely popular and they promise to keep queue times as short as possible and their matchmaking balances MMR. They couldn’t do this with Anet’s current system.

jessiestiles.9437:

Of course they can. That’s the whole point of a balanced matchmaking system. Dota is hugely popular and they promise to keep queue times as short as possible and their matchmaking balances MMR. They couldn’t do this with Anet’s current system.

How can they create players out of thin air?

Dota is a multiplayer PvP game from what I recall. Everyone that plays does PvP and it comes from a very very popular franchise so has a large playerbase.

They can’t. You misunderstand. You said no system can create balanced matches in a low player pool. Yet before the introduction of the pip based matchmaking system MMR hell did not exist. Anet didn’t need to expand the pip range to almost an entire division to keep queue times shorter. Queue times were shorter. All the problems you mentioned didn’t exist.

And as far as expanding the current playerbase making the game unplayable 21 hours a day is the last thing you want to do.

jessiestiles.9437:

They can’t. You misunderstand. You said no system can create balanced matches in a low player pool. Yet before the introduction of the pip based matchmaking system MMR hell did not exist. Anet didn’t need to expand the pip range to almost an entire division to keep queue times shorter. Queue times were shorter. All the problems you mentioned didn’t exist.

And as far as expanding the current playerbase making the game unplayable 21 hours a day is the last thing you want to do.

Are you sure that there weren’t any other issues that were similar to MMR hell that prevented progression?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3vz844/pvp_this_is_not_okay_abusing_mmr_system/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/3vhal3/solution_to_mmr_tanking_and_current_league/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Same-old-competitive-community
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Noob-account-Ruby-Main-stuck-in-Emerald
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Bad-designed-League-System-confirmed

Yep. Season one was definitely better…

Yes. Absolutely MMR hell did not exist. Yes you were thrown into games where ridiculous stuff went on. But you could log in anytime of day and expect short queue times and expect your games to be evenly balanced.

Amber shopping is preventable. People tanking was annoying but didn’t happen nearly as much. You aren’t going to improve the problem by making games imbalanced and giving people more of a reason to afk or feel like the match is over before it starts.