Guild Wars 2

So exactly, how is this even remotely considered balance? It’s not luck getting 27k damage, separate encounters, but back to back mind you. Stealth…stealth…dead. So fun!

/end rant

How about you wear some thoughness?

I heard it does wonders.

Toughness, a stunbreaker and a decent reflex.

inb4
“mesmer complaining, oh the irony”

Asomal.6453:

inb4
“mesmer complaining, oh the irony”

or a glass cannon 100b

Heojaua.6048:

How about you wear some thoughness?

I heard it does wonders.

+1

Glass cannons have no right to complain about taking too much damage. However, thieves wreck high toughness specs as well.

Not that fast tho.

agreed that glass cannons should expect to die “fast” but not instantly.

Also I dont think people understand what toughness even does, or how armor works.

Every + toughness adds to total armor (not actually sure the exact amount I know its not a 1:1 ratio though) armor adds 1% dmg reduction every 100…

So 2k armor gives a 20% dmg reduction (basic glass cannon build) while 3k armor gives about 30% dmg reduction (average beefy dps build) [generally bunkers have around 3500 armor]

So what you’re telling hims is that 10% more dmg reduction would completely fix 27k dmg…cus im pretty sure it would only turn it into 24.3k which for most classes even build tanky that equals dead…

But no please keep replying with “omg newb u is so bad glass cannon build toughness” We got a balanced game over here guys move along >.> no editing required during the first year of release

MistyMountains.3751:

Also I dont think people understand what toughness even does, or how armor works.

Every + toughness adds to total armor (not actually sure the exact amount I know its not a 1:1 ratio though) armor adds 1% dmg reduction every 100…

So 2k armor gives a 20% dmg reduction (basic glass cannon build) while 3k armor gives about 30% dmg reduction (average beefy dps build) [generally bunkers have around 3500 armor]

So what you’re telling hims is that 10% more dmg reduction would completely fix 27k dmg…cus im pretty sure it would only turn it into 24.3k which for most classes even build tanky that equals dead…

But no please keep replying with “omg newb u is so bad glass cannon build toughness” We got a balanced game over here guys move along >.> no editing required during the first year of release

I honestly have no idea how toughness works. If that’s the formula, then you’re right.

13k BS in spvp..!!?? were you even wearing armor?

Ill go ahead and post the 3 most generic thief responses when we get threads like this

1- “We are assassins, you are not supposed to see us coming!”

2- “We are so fragile, so we need to kill fast to compensate for our lack of surviability!” (lol)

3- “Its your fault, you should have stacked all your armor and gems with vitality and toughness”

aaron.7850:

Ill go ahead and post the 3 most generic thief responses when we get threads like this

1- “We are assassins, you are not supposed to see us coming!”

2- “We are so fragile, so we need to kill fast to compensate for our lack of surviability!” (lol)

3- “Its your fault, you should have stacked all your armor and gems with vitality and toughness”

Let me put even more weight for each answer:

1-" Lol you can use AoE to fight us"….then a second later :" OMFG Aoe are too strong nerf them"

2-" We’re the only one who can build for burst because that’s all we can do"…then you you go look on wiki….:" Yeah but the top teams don’t use them and I want to one-shot people"

3-“If you want to survive thief burst, go with more toughness”…..then you survive their spike :" OMFG that’s too much survivability, nerf them omfg "

Basically whatever you say or do..they’re right and you’re wrong

A lot of things need to be reconsidered in this game.

MistyMountains.3751:

Also I dont think people understand what toughness even does, or how armor works.

Every + toughness adds to total armor (not actually sure the exact amount I know its not a 1:1 ratio though) armor adds 1% dmg reduction every 100…

So 2k armor gives a 20% dmg reduction (basic glass cannon build) while 3k armor gives about 30% dmg reduction (average beefy dps build) [generally bunkers have around 3500 armor]

So what you’re telling hims is that 10% more dmg reduction would completely fix 27k dmg…cus im pretty sure it would only turn it into 24.3k which for most classes even build tanky that equals dead…

But no please keep replying with “omg newb u is so bad glass cannon build toughness” We got a balanced game over here guys move along >.> no editing required during the first year of release

That’s not even close to how armor works. The damage formula is:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Going from 2k armor to 3k armor reduces damage by an additional 33%. That means going from 2k to 3k armor reduces that 27k damage to 18k damage, not the 24.3k that your wholly uninformed post tries to claim.

As for toughness, armor is equal to defense (from equipment) plus toughness. Adding 1 point of toughness increases armor by 1.

Syeria.4812:

MistyMountains.3751:

Also I dont think people understand what toughness even does, or how armor works.

Every + toughness adds to total armor (not actually sure the exact amount I know its not a 1:1 ratio though) armor adds 1% dmg reduction every 100…

So 2k armor gives a 20% dmg reduction (basic glass cannon build) while 3k armor gives about 30% dmg reduction (average beefy dps build) [generally bunkers have around 3500 armor]

So what you’re telling hims is that 10% more dmg reduction would completely fix 27k dmg…cus im pretty sure it would only turn it into 24.3k which for most classes even build tanky that equals dead…

But no please keep replying with “omg newb u is so bad glass cannon build toughness” We got a balanced game over here guys move along >.> no editing required during the first year of release

That’s not even close to how armor works. The damage formula is:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Going from 2k armor to 3k armor reduces damage by an additional 33%. That means going from 2k to 3k armor reduces that 27k damage to 18k damage, not the 24.3k that your wholly uninformed post tries to claim.

As for toughness, armor is equal to defense (from equipment) plus toughness. Adding 1 point of toughness increases armor by 1.

Thats great to hear. So if i run full power/vit/tough gear and get 20k-23k health, i will still have 2k-5k left when he presses 2

this saved my day so much (sorry for sarcasm but it’s just to funny to think that thieves think this is just a l2p-/gear-issue)

lol but u realize that even 24.3k is much higher than hp-pool of some classes? and even then it doesnt matter. so if u get not instagibbet and survive with 30% the thief finishes with heartseeker → dead

even fast reflexes and dodge or teleport dont help if u arent out of range of heartseeker or sword teleport 2 if he has sword/pistole as second weapon set.

Syeria.4812:

MistyMountains.3751:

Also I dont think people understand what toughness even does, or how armor works.

Every + toughness adds to total armor (not actually sure the exact amount I know its not a 1:1 ratio though) armor adds 1% dmg reduction every 100…

So 2k armor gives a 20% dmg reduction (basic glass cannon build) while 3k armor gives about 30% dmg reduction (average beefy dps build) [generally bunkers have around 3500 armor]

So what you’re telling hims is that 10% more dmg reduction would completely fix 27k dmg…cus im pretty sure it would only turn it into 24.3k which for most classes even build tanky that equals dead…

But no please keep replying with “omg newb u is so bad glass cannon build toughness” We got a balanced game over here guys move along >.> no editing required during the first year of release

That’s not even close to how armor works. The damage formula is:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Going from 2k armor to 3k armor reduces damage by an additional 33%. That means going from 2k to 3k armor reduces that 27k damage to 18k damage, not the 24.3k that your wholly uninformed post tries to claim.

As for toughness, armor is equal to defense (from equipment) plus toughness. Adding 1 point of toughness increases armor by 1.

So you wrote out that long explanation to explain he is wrong… Yet anyone other than a warrior and maybe 1 or 2 other classes in full vitality gear are the only ones with a health pool big enough to survive it. o.O

Wreckdum.8367:

Syeria.4812:

MistyMountains.3751:

Also I dont think people understand what toughness even does, or how armor works.

Every + toughness adds to total armor (not actually sure the exact amount I know its not a 1:1 ratio though) armor adds 1% dmg reduction every 100…

So 2k armor gives a 20% dmg reduction (basic glass cannon build) while 3k armor gives about 30% dmg reduction (average beefy dps build) [generally bunkers have around 3500 armor]

So what you’re telling hims is that 10% more dmg reduction would completely fix 27k dmg…cus im pretty sure it would only turn it into 24.3k which for most classes even build tanky that equals dead…

But no please keep replying with “omg newb u is so bad glass cannon build toughness” We got a balanced game over here guys move along >.> no editing required during the first year of release

That’s not even close to how armor works. The damage formula is:

Damage done = (weapon damage) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target’s Armor)

Going from 2k armor to 3k armor reduces damage by an additional 33%. That means going from 2k to 3k armor reduces that 27k damage to 18k damage, not the 24.3k that your wholly uninformed post tries to claim.

As for toughness, armor is equal to defense (from equipment) plus toughness. Adding 1 point of toughness increases armor by 1.

So you wrote out that long explanation to explain he is wrong… Yet anyone other than a warrior and maybe 1 or 2 other classes in full vitality gear are the only ones with a health pool big enough to survive it. o.O

Reading ability is in extremely scarce supply around here. I didn’t make a single comment about whether the damage is good, bad, or anything.

Some clueless little kitten came in and cried about people not understanding how armor or toughness works, but then demonstrated for everyone to see that he didn’t have the slightest clue as to how it worked and was only spreading further false information about the topic.

BS makes no sense… i’m not the one ******* about this kind of stuff but yesterday i got BS’d for 8.2k on a 1830toughness, that is way too high for a one hitter on a high toughness

hooma.9642:

lol but u realize that even 24.3k is much higher than hp-pool of some classes? and even then it doesnt matter. so if u get not instagibbet and survive with 30% the thief finishes with heartseeker -> dead

even fast reflexes and dodge or teleport dont help if u arent out of range of heartseeker or sword teleport 2 if he has sword/pistole as second weapon set.

I still don’t understand how an ability like heartseeker ever made it into the game. It does close to the same damage as eviscerate (and has even greater range), yet it can be spammed and requires no setup.

There will be Thief adjustments. I know Anet is slow and steady with any changes but it will come.

Daoc in it’s first couple of months was just as bad. Assassisn could one shot someone in a group of 8, and not unstealth because it was a one shot. That was fixed just like this crap will eventually be fixed.

The only players that cannot handle a thief with 916 toughness are players that have not yet learned to utilize their skills and abilities who may also lack situational awareness. I’m going to pull a page from Sataar’s book and tell you to learn to play.

Dismay.4729:

The only players that cannot handle a thief with 916 toughness are players that have not yet learned to utilize their skills and abilities who may also lack situational awareness. I’m going to pull a page from Sataar’s book and tell you to learn to play.

How do you dodge a teleport? How do you target a stealthed player? Teach me.

Chi Malady.2015:

Dismay.4729:

The only players that cannot handle a thief with 916 toughness are players that have not yet learned to utilize their skills and abilities who may also lack situational awareness. I’m going to pull a page from Sataar’s book and tell you to learn to play.

How do you dodge a teleport? How do you target a stealthed player? Teach me.

Simple You use AOE dmg..oh wait!

Blakvalhalla.6170:

So exactly, how is this even remotely considered balance? It’s not luck getting 27k damage, separate encounters, but back to back mind you. Stealth…stealth…dead. So fun!

/end rant

OMIGOD your so right, Theif OP

cant believe this crapp exists in game… anet you even trying??:(

Pope.1469:

Blakvalhalla.6170:

So exactly, how is this even remotely considered balance? It’s not luck getting 27k damage, separate encounters, but back to back mind you. Stealth…stealth…dead. So fun!

/end rant

OMIGOD your so right, Theif OP

cant believe this crapp exists in game… anet you even trying??:(

another for proof

Blakvalhalla.6170:

So exactly, how is this even remotely considered balance? It’s not luck getting 27k damage, separate encounters, but back to back mind you. Stealth…stealth…dead. So fun!

/end rant

I would just like to nit pick and point out, the thief did not do 27k with one combo. He did 24k and 20k.

And if you want to play as a glass cannon, start utilizing the dodge roll mechanic and some stun breaker abilities.

I see a lot of complaints about theif and mesmer, but what people don’t seem to understand is that these borderline Downs players need those crutch classes. If you wreck their easy/skill-less professions/builds and nerf them into the ground, they will have nothing to do but the following:

A) attempt to convince Mom to call A-net, after a long tantrum, and revert any nerfs to their training wheel professions

B) learn to actually play a class that requires some degree of skill to play, which will lead to even more crying on the forums because the other classes “ain’t as cool brah”, or “this actually requires a brain and a degree of strategy to play well…I don’t like it..no Sir, not one bit!”

C) Anet listens to the cries of the special snowflakes and begins to dumb down the rest of the classes to the thief/mesmer level and then the game is really wrecked.

So no…don’t touch thief/Mesmer…leave them exactly as they are. I like to know who the bads are, just by seeing the profession they brought and it gives them a place in the game that they otherwise would have stopped playing long ago, due to skill requirements.

Pope.1469:

Pope.1469:

Blakvalhalla.6170:

So exactly, how is this even remotely considered balance? It’s not luck getting 27k damage, separate encounters, but back to back mind you. Stealth…stealth…dead. So fun!

/end rant

OMIGOD your so right, Theif OP

cant believe this crapp exists in game… anet you even trying??:(

another for proof

That thief was so strong that his damage was able to take your armor off. This have to stop now!

All jokes aside toughness only negates very little damage from glass cannons professions. If you’re not 2 shotted depending on health then you’ll be 4.5 shotted.

Can’t use one brush to describe people who play Thiefs. Yes, the class will attract the “wtf I Pwn” playerbase. Those will go away when the class is adjusted. Some of the players that play Thiefs are pretty amazing. They take a strong class and turn it into a killing machine. They will stick around and still do great even after any adjustments.

The fotm crowd will be off to the next class they deem to be overpowered.

If you take away the burst of a thief… he will disappear from the game (especially from tournaments). And if you have some exp. you won’t die against thiefs. There are too many 2-2-2 thiefs around who are free targets.

Now stop complaining about every strenght of a class and learn to deal with it.
“Regards – a NOT-THIEF-player”

I see nothing wrong with disappearance of things detrimental to the game/tournaments.
(Obviously not hinting at thief alone there.)

When you compare all the complaints on this forum you should see everything disappearing: Guard-bunker, ele, mesmer etc.
Mabye we should all run warriors? The game must be super interesting at this point.

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

When you compare all the complaints on this forum you should see everything disappearing: Guard-bunker, ele, mesmer etc.
Mabye we should all run warriors? The game must be super interesting at this point.

ya “Warrior only” for pvp just add some more utilitys and everything would be fine

Seriously I am stunned by those numbers – never been hit that hard in full glass and never been able to dish it out on my thief either with 25 stacks of bloodlust and vuln on the target. I’ve hit and been hit for the C&D number, but nowehere near the whole combo damage.

Eh, main problem with Thief damage atm (I’ll leave the kitten stealth out of the picture) is the Mug trait. Overpowered as kitten, lol. 7.5k damage for a tier 1 trait? That damage in the current state of traits gamewide is a grandgrandgrandgrandmaster trait. Reduce damage by at least 50%.

thieves, attune eles, shatter mesmers.
two words
SMITER’S BOON
thanks.

Forzani.2584:

There will be Thief adjustments. I know Anet is slow and steady with any changes but it will come.

Daoc in it’s first couple of months was just as bad. Assassisn could one shot someone in a group of 8, and not unstealth because it was a one shot. That was fixed just like this crap will eventually be fixed.

What makes you think there will be any adjustments?

ANet

Q: Do you find any profession to be out of balance like Ele bunker, roamer, thief one shot combo, mesmer portal?

A: Ele bunker is really strong, on our watchlist
Mesmer portal is giving us problems –giving that tool onto other classes maybe?

It doesn’t sound like they see anything wrong with this damage being done in under half a second. Even when thief was on their watchlist, they only made minor adjustments.

They seem to think the problem was fixed with the CnD and Assassin’s signet nerfs. Don’t expect a change in the near future.

Thieves got nerfed lately, leave them as it is now .

Check this to see the OLD Thieves :

^That was happening and the general consensuses was…if I recall correctly, “L2P less QQ more pew pew.” Or something else constructive and helpful. How do you release something so broken, after spending so much ‘time and effort’ on pvp? I’d be okay with insta gibs if every profession had something just as easy and mindless as CnD/Backstab or oldschool heartseeker spam…you know without cooldowns and invisibility.

Thief isn’t half as vulnerable as they let it appear. They have stealth for gods sake. That alone is enough to survive most battles. They don’t need toughness, so instead nerf them.

Exaclty Sirendor… and the fact that so many of their skills make em invulnerable while they execute them doesnt help it either…
Compare a 100b burst warrior to a glass cannon thief…
the warrior clearly falls behind in things burst dmg and frequency to be able to use that burst… yet he falls even more behind in things survivability and is far more easy to predict than almost any class.
Yes he has his 3.4k more base HP and a lil higer base armor… sadly none of those seem to really factor in when it comes to an actual fight and not on-paper-value.

and getting a skill from 0 to 7k+ dmg by investing 10 trait points… well… nuff said.
And you better ignore the fact that this skill is also a long range instant teleport gap closer which steals a superior skill version of the attacked class [ at least in warriors case].

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

The game must be super interesting at this point.

The game is already dull, in part due to things like the burst demonstrated in this thread, which is why so many people either go GC or bunker.

nice screens of warrrior under frenzy who have been backstab

thanks for the lulz

and one question: pope

WHy did you have no stuff on your toon in the second screen where you show your equipment page?

nice trolling post

thief burst is OP , no class should be able to kill someone in 2-3 seconds.
if they catch you offguard there is no stopping this combo
even when you 1v1 its still hard to avoid if he times it right , and its impossible to avoid if you use Hide in Shadows and run up to an enemy who is totaly unaware that youre there, right before stealth ends hit steal+cnd you’l get stealthed and the person being hit has no clue, then stay in stealth for a full auto-attack chain because of stealthbug(is this culling?) when they get out of stealth ur health is so low, doubledodgeroll to get away but HS HS HS HS HS HS HS HS HS HS will catch up to you, if thats not OP. maybe this is: deciding when to enter or leave the fight with hardly any restriction or penalty, you can stealmugcndbs into a 30ppl zerg and shortbow outa there like np.
1 of the best burst ingame, 1 of the best downed ingame, best mobility ingame. unfair in any pvp situation

thiefs can do this stuff quite often but every 45 seconds is the biggest one since they have bas. venom and whatever poisons they want to use.

Dismay.4729:

The only players that cannot handle a thief with 916 toughness are players that have not yet learned to utilize their skills and abilities who may also lack situational awareness. I’m going to pull a page from Sataar’s book and tell you to learn to play.

hmm….so the fact that i have 2500+ 3v3 arena xp at wow in cyclone bg eu,
if you know what i’m talking about,and i’m getting globaled by thieves in gw means that i have L2P issues…

to those people saying : wear toughness wear virality, run counter ability x or y.

THIS IS NOT HOW THIS GAME WORKS

a mesmer cant wear toughness, every other class would do better with toughness build, mesmer cant take outlasting fights. jsut because the class is build around this.

as a ranger you get killed like this too because you either have no toughness or you have no vitality, there simply is no vitality toughnes condi dmg amulet

it´s just thief being broken because they gave them too much dmg and not enough other stuff

Well as ranger you have enough dodgeroles, protection and stability over time. You have your no-dmg-signet and cripple. The fact that you can compose the amulet with jewel is enough to get the variety.

Burst thieves punish people with poor reflexes, utilities and builds much more than any other profession. No doubt they are noob slayers even if they are noobs themselves.. That’s all these screenshots prove.