Guild Wars 2

1. Play a game of ranked PvP

2. Choose a random non thief player from your match up. Ask them for a dual in an empty arena.

3. You are not allowed to use d/p.

Can guarantee that you will lose 70%+ matches without fail against a player of similar skill.

Thief has major issues.

/rant

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

1. Play a game of ranked PvP

2. Choose a random non thief player from your match up. Ask them for a dual in an empty arena.

3. You are allowed to use d/p.

Can guarantee that you will lose 70%+ matches without fail against a player of similar skill.

Thief has major issues.

/rant

This seems to be an L2P issue.

Then may I ask why you rarely see an effective thief outside of a d/p spec in PvP?

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

Then may I ask why you rarely see an effective thief outside of a d/p spec in PvP?

Uhmm S/D is used in pvp too.. I think its a matter of MMR. I think you are facing bad thieves. There are some good thieves in game. Like real good.

This casual high MMR PvP. I could not careless about Top tier ESL since I don’t play there. Why would you too right?

S/D is nowhere near as competitive as it used to be. I know as I used to play it very successfully. It lost a huge amount of damage and evasive potential.

My point still stands. If you beat someone repeatedly on S/D, you are not in the same skill category.

[edit]

If you watch a top PvP player like sizer on S/D, he rarely engages in a direct 1v1. This is because even if he plays flawlessly, the damage output is so low it is not worth the time it would take to kill his opponent.

I like how everyone acts like Thief is working as intended, then you look on the Thief forums and there is a post about its funeral. Kek.

thief state atm is garbage, you can only play d/p sa stealth bot spam, running around the map and waiting for an ally to res.

While thief can do the +1 and decaps it will meta, no matter what build but it will be meta just for those both abilities.

Before the patch you could at least play s/d and do as well as d/p but now is either you play d/p sa or go kitten yoursefl because you will be rather useless.

ahh miss the days when you could choose between s/d, d/p and s/p.

Serious Thought.5394:

I like how everyone acts like Thief is working as intended, then you look on the Thief forums and there is a post about its funeral. Kek.

Ah, do you think that thief is in a gret spot actually? ok ok…
Our actual role is focused on fast decapping and do +1 thanks to our mobility from 5# shortbow, now try to think what it would happens if only this kills get nerfed.
Do you think that a class is balanced when his role depend from just a single skill?
Please nerf also 5#shortbow and delete thieves from gw2, you are not capable of balance them, especially KARL who just nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. (i can’t forgot that troll trait 1 sec stability when out of stealth “so if an hammer stun is incoming you just go in stealth and then get revealed, and you will be ok”)

Don’t waste your time trying to convince people that Thief has major issues. People are still living back in the Thief terror days of 2013 and haven’t realized it’s 2015. Maybe in another two years?

What is there to dual in a empty area? You can’t work together to fight no one in an empty arena.

skyd.9678:

Serious Thought.5394:

I like how everyone acts like Thief is working as intended, then you look on the Thief forums and there is a post about its funeral. Kek.

Ah, do you think that thief is in a gret spot actually? ok ok…
Our actual role is focused on fast decapping and do +1 thanks to our mobility from 5# shortbow, now try to think what it would happens if only this kills get nerfed.
Do you think that a class is balanced when his role depend from just a single skill?
Please nerf also 5#shortbow and delete thieves from gw2, you are not capable of balance them, especially KARL who just nerfed and nerfed and nerfed. (i can’t forgot that troll trait 1 sec stability when out of stealth “so if an hammer stun is incoming you just go in stealth and then get revealed, and you will be ok”)

You my friend, need to learn to read people’s post history before ranting at them. Even better, read my signature. Even better than that, here is my pvp history: I have 1,235 games on Thief with second place being my Necromancer at 400 something last I checked.

Why even bother to 1v1 with thief? In conquest thieves never “duel” cause its waste of time, since they cant maintain neutral/taken point.

Highest mobility/perma stealth favours thiefs for +1 and fast decaps. Thieves kinda overpowered in conquest and need more nerfs.

1. Play a game of ranked PvP
2. Choose a random player from your match up. Ask them for a duel in an empty arena.
3. You must play the meta Bunker Guard spec.
Can guarantee that you will not win any of your matchups (except a really badly played zerker).
Omg buff bunker guardian pls.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

1. Play a game of ranked PvP
2. Choose a random player from your match up. Ask them for a duel in an empty arena.
3. You must play the meta Bunker Guard spec.
Can guarantee that you will not win any of your matchups (except a really badly played zerker).
Omg buff bunker guardian pls.

You’re comparing one build to an ENTIRE class. Good job.

Random Weird Guy.3528:

1. Play a game of ranked PvP
2. Choose a random player from your match up. Ask them for a duel in an empty arena.
3. You must play the meta Bunker Guard spec.
Can guarantee that you will not win any of your matchups (except a really badly played zerker).
Omg buff bunker guardian pls.

My favourite part about this was when Tage (bunker guard) fought Kervv ele (super OP DD cele) on far point in ESL about a week ago. After a few minutes with neither of them able to do anything to the other they stopped fighting and sat on a neutral point till someone came and upset the peace.

Amante.8109:

Don’t waste your time trying to convince people that Thief has major issues. People are still living back in the Thief terror days of 2013 and haven’t realized it’s 2015. Maybe in another two years?

You cannot argue with thieves who don’t realise how many builds they have forced out – both in the past AND present.

You can’t argue with thieves who don’t realise, that other classes apart from thieves suffer from lack of diversity.

You can’t argue with thieves, who posts +30 posts per day, hijacking every single thread and turn it into a thief-whine. While being in meta all this time, I might add.

You can’t argue with thieves … anymore. My patience has evaporated over the last couple of weeks.

Done.

Yeah thief has major issues, you can’t win any esl tournaments without them because of how essential they are.

Poxxia.1547:

Amante.8109:

Don’t waste your time trying to convince people that Thief has major issues. People are still living back in the Thief terror days of 2013 and haven’t realized it’s 2015. Maybe in another two years?

You cannot argue with thieves who don’t realise how many builds they have forced out – both in the past AND present.

You can’t argue with thieves who don’t realise, that other classes apart from thieves suffer from lack of diversity.

You can’t argue with thieves, who posts +30 posts per day, hijacking every single thread and turn it into a thief-whine. While being in meta all this time, I might add.

You can’t argue with thieves … anymore. My patience has evaporated over the last couple of weeks.

Done.

Bring on revealed is I think the only thing needing to be said.

mysterion.1276:

They just need to buff every thief set a lot in teamfighting potential….
now that they will indirectly nerf dp too there will be no viable set anymore…

@belial.9350 L2P the only reason why thief is played in esl is because vampiric rune lets them ress extremely well(Revenant will be as mobile as thief so no point to mention sbow #5)

Revenant doesn’t have any real mobility if they don’t have a target to go after.
Thief having issues as a teamfighter doesn’t mean the class itself isn’t extremely useful.

There’s probably more people on the forums these days being overly extremist over the " state of thieves" than there is people thinking thief is still OP.

If the definition of a useful class is a stealth rez / decap bot, then it is time to play another class.

Rezzing is not a role. Any class can do this this. Some arguably better (banners, invuln). If the rez channel is broken by the vamp rune change, thief will be complete garbage at this.

+1 is not a role. Any class can do that.

Decap is not a role, any class can do that. Yes thief can sometimes do it marginally faster if they take short bow.

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

If the definition of a useful class is a stealth rez / decap bot, then it is time to play another class.

Rezzing is not a role. Any class can do this this. Some arguably better (banners, invuln). If the rez channel is broken by the vamp rune change, thief will be complete garbage at this.

+1 is not a role. Any class can do that.

Decap is not a role, any class can do that. Yes thief can sometimes do it marginally faster if they take short bow.

Thief +1’s and decaps better than anyone else, it isn’t a coincidence that nearly every decent team has had a thief for 3 years.

You want thief to be strong at 1v1, then ask to have the insane mobility nerfed, because when thief was strong at 1v1 it was one of the most broken things this game has ever seen. (when s/d was super strong for example)

If thief is strong 1v1 then when that is combined with that mobility it becomes broken, you can’t out-rotate a thief, nor can you escape, a thief can train other classes all over the map, that is simply broken, and at various times in this game it has severely impacted classes like mesmer, ele, etc when they lacked the ability or builds to deal with the thief build at that time.

Mobility is the problem, compare it to necro & condi engy, for three years necro has had a very strong advantage in a matchup with condi engy, yet this didn’t stop people playing condi engy, because the necro can’t train the engy all over the map.

It’s funny that as some players claim thief is at its worst state, the class can still take almost a guaranteed spot in competitive teams. While other classes they complain about, sometimes can’t even get a spot.

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

…You are not allowed to use d/p…

Aaaaand there’s your problem. Yes, we know that thieves are sorely lacking options right now. So are elementalists and necromancers. ANet has said that they’re trying to fix that, so be patient.

Elxdark.9702:

thief state atm is garbage, you can only play d/p sa stealth bot spam, running around the map and waiting for an ally to res.

While thief can do the +1 and decaps it will meta, no matter what build but it will be meta just for those both abilities.

Before the patch you could at least play s/d and do as well as d/p but now is either you play d/p sa or go kitten yoursefl because you will be rather useless.

ahh miss the days when you could choose between s/d, d/p and s/p.

And that’s exactly what they’re doing with daredevil. Except for s/p, because that’s too simple mechanically to be good in PvP (i.e. if they made it powerful enough, complete novices would be too strong with it, because of pistol whip). Basically, daredevil brings back pre-nerf acrobatics, which makes s/d viable again, and they are buffing p/p somewhat (although, like with s/p, it’s too simple mechanically for PvP).

So that is the reason why thiefs run from GS guardian…

zinkz.7045:

Thief +1’s and decaps better than anyone else, it isn’t a coincidence that nearly every decent team has had a thief for 3 years.

You want thief to be strong at 1v1, then ask to have the insane mobility nerfed, because when thief was strong at 1v1 it was one of the most broken things this game has ever seen. (when s/d was super strong for example)

If thief is strong 1v1 then when that is combined with that mobility it becomes broken, you can’t out-rotate a thief, nor can you escape, a thief can train other classes all other the map, that is simply broken, and at various times in this game it has severely impacted classes like mesmer, ele, etc when they lacked the ability or builds to deal with the thief build at that time.

Mobility is the problem, compare it to necro & condi engy, for three years necro has had a very strong advantage in a matchup with condi engy, yet this didn’t stop people playing condi engy, because the necro can’t train the engy all over the map.

This is interesting because these were my thoughts on thief as a thief player as well. However, simply nerfing shortbow wouldn’t work, because without it, thieves would be quite slow, which just doesn’t really fit with the theme of the rogue archetype.

Exciton.8942:

It’s funny that as some players claim thief is at its worst state, the class can still take almost a guaranteed spot in competitive teams. While other classes they complain about, sometimes can’t even get a spot.

So…while I agree with this sentiment, I think the point that everyone is missing is that the current thief is just not fun for many of us to play.

Unholy Pillager.3791:

Gallant Pigeon.5807:

…You are not allowed to use d/p…

Aaaaand there’s your problem. Yes, we know that thieves are sorely lacking options right now. So are elementalists and necromancers. ANet has said that they’re trying to fix that, so be patient.

Elxdark.9702:

thief state atm is garbage, you can only play d/p sa stealth bot spam, running around the map and waiting for an ally to res.

While thief can do the +1 and decaps it will meta, no matter what build but it will be meta just for those both abilities.

Before the patch you could at least play s/d and do as well as d/p but now is either you play d/p sa or go kitten yoursefl because you will be rather useless.

ahh miss the days when you could choose between s/d, d/p and s/p.

And that’s exactly what they’re doing with daredevil. Except for s/p, because that’s too simple mechanically to be good in PvP (i.e. if they made it powerful enough, complete novices would be too strong with it, because of pistol whip). Basically, daredevil brings back pre-nerf acrobatics, which makes s/d viable again, and they are buffing p/p somewhat (although, like with s/p, it’s too simple mechanically for PvP).

I thought the same, then I tested DD by far the worst spec—- unfinished, recycle animations, clunky staff, the idea behind is good but the implementation is not.

I really hope Karl fix DareDevil so we can actually play something else than dp sa.

Poxxia.1547:

You cannot argue with thieves who don’t realise how many builds they have forced out – both in the past AND present.

There’s no arguing that needs to be done. Thieves are like the veterinarians of Guild Wars 2. They are there to put those fragile builds “to sleep” as painlessly as possible. Because if a build cannot survive a Thief in the current game, it is going to get brutally slaughtered when it goes against the other professions.

Thieves are like the first boss in Ninja Gaiden.
If you can’t survive against him, you’ve got no business playing the game any further. It only gets worse from there. And he’s your friend, he’s only trying to help.

Kageseigi.2150:

Poxxia.1547:

You cannot argue with thieves who don’t realise how many builds they have forced out – both in the past AND present.

There’s no arguing that needs to be done. Thieves are like the veterinarians of Guild Wars 2. They are there to put those fragile builds “to sleep” as painlessly as possible. Because if a build cannot survive a Thief in the current game, it is going to get brutally slaughtered when it goes against the other professions.

Thieves are like the first boss in Ninja Gaiden.
If you can’t survive against him, you’ve got no business playing the game any further. It only gets worse from there. And he’s your friend, he’s only trying to help.

Be that as it may, forcing builds out of the game through sheer hard counter is hardly healthy. Remember, we want to promote build diversity. I think having one class, even if it’s my class, be the gatekeeper for PvP is just not good for the game mode as a whole.

Poxxia.1547:

You can’t argue with thieves who don’t realise, that other classes apart from thieves suffer from lack of diversity.

I would argue that this is more pronounced with Thief than any other profession in the game right now. The key words there are “right now”. As much as a lot of Thieves like to complain, there was a respectable amount of diversity in builds up until the big trait patch in June. Unfortunately, that patch obliterated numerous archetypes of Thief that had existed up until then, leaving little in its place but D/P and a subpar version of S/D.

Here’s to hoping HoT brings some of that diversity back. I’m a little skeptical right now, though… the only builds potentially on the rise so far are S/D and Condi P/D.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Be that as it may, forcing builds out of the game through sheer hard counter is hardly healthy. Remember, we want to promote build diversity. I think having one class, even if it’s my class, be the gatekeeper for PvP is just not good for the game mode as a whole.

Oh, I’m not saying that Thieves force builds out of the game. I’m just saying that Thieves are simply the first to get their shot at the fragile builds. If there were no Thieves, those builds would simply die as soon as they made contact with other professions.

Yes, a Thief can hound a player all game, but all that changes is the nonviable build is slaughtered off-point instead of on-point.

And really, in most likelihood, any build that can be taken out so simply by a Thief probably has a good chance at taking the Thief out by swinging wildly and randomly in the air. It doesn’t take much at all, just some luck.

The way that thieves usually lose a match is when they focus on 1v1. In fact, this is how any class can cost their team a match. But I’ve noticed that thieves do this a lot. I see a thief decap a point, so I go there and take it back. The thief attacks me, fails, and runs. Does the thief run to support his team somewhere else? No, he heals and comes back for more punishment. They believe that they should win every 1v1, and if they don’t they sacrifice reasonable gameplay, cost their team the match, and come to the forums to whine about how op other classes are.

DaShi.1368:

The way that thieves usually lose a match is when they focus on 1v1. In fact, this is how any class can cost their team a match. But I’ve noticed that thieves do this a lot. I see a thief decap a point, so I go there and take it back. The thief attacks me, fails, and runs. Does the thief run to support his team somewhere else? No, he heals and comes back for more punishment. They believe that they should win every 1v1, and if they don’t they sacrifice reasonable gameplay, cost their team the match, and come to the forums to whine about how op other classes are.

I play Thief and I agree with your sentiment.
I feel like a lot of the Thief players complaining here just don’t understand that we can’t be this all powerful class that can be everywhere and also win against anyone.

I feel the problem right now with Thief is that we’re locked into this role, not the role itself. I really enjoy being a D/P SA Thief, it has so much impact onto a match, it’s no wonder Toker got MVP at the WTS for his thief play.
The feeling of being everywhere at once, making the one that tip the balance. It’s very rewarding.

I think people would be less inclined to be doomsayer of thief if we had a more teamfight oriented build for the people that want the more " Assassin" side of the rogue archetype.
The issue is that since you can’t prevent us from taking shortbow, it’s hard to balance such a build without making it problematic.

I just don’t see the Thief issues ending any time soon unless they rebalance shortbow.

Nocta.5274:

DaShi.1368:

The way that thieves usually lose a match is when they focus on 1v1. In fact, this is how any class can cost their team a match. But I’ve noticed that thieves do this a lot. I see a thief decap a point, so I go there and take it back. The thief attacks me, fails, and runs. Does the thief run to support his team somewhere else? No, he heals and comes back for more punishment. They believe that they should win every 1v1, and if they don’t they sacrifice reasonable gameplay, cost their team the match, and come to the forums to whine about how op other classes are.

I play Thief and I agree with your sentiment.
I feel like a lot of the Thief players complaining here just don’t understand that we can’t be this all powerful class that can be everywhere and also win against anyone.

I feel the problem right now with Thief is that we’re locked into this role, not the role itself. I really enjoy being a D/P SA Thief, it has so much impact onto a match, it’s no wonder Toker got MVP at the WTS for his thief play.
The feeling of being everywhere at once, making the one that tip the balance. It’s very rewarding.

I think people would be less inclined to be doomsayer of thief if we had a more teamfight oriented build for the people that want the more " Assassin" side of the rogue archetype.
The issue is that since you can’t prevent us from taking shortbow, it’s hard to balance such a build without making it problematic.

I just don’t see the Thief issues ending any time soon unless they rebalance shortbow.

I dont think SB#5 is the problem, even S/D can take shortbow but now S/D is useless because of they lack of stealth. even D/P can eat any S/D at this moment.

DareDevil will bring the pre-patch S/D back, but it wont catch up with SA D/P. last BWE I use DareDevil with S/D, it cant beat neither SA D/P nor other meta build.Why I choose this trait ? It cant change anything, just a new toy .

I think change SA line will solve some question, like Shadow’s Rejuvenation and Hidden Thief, this traits are ruining thief’s gameplay and force thief to choose D/P and Stealth.

I think Thief should be less stealth and passive healing, but take something to counter the reveal.

S/D just need one thing, the active larcenous Strike. I think you dont need to hit someone with flanking strike to use LS will bring back S/D,even it cost 4+2 ini. It wont be overpower.

S/D always lost to D/P, even in the best days of S/D.
Toker believed in daredevil S/D, and so do I. I believe SA and stealth in general will have more issues in HoT because of Herald and maybe Scrapper.

Arlowslol.1974:

I dont think SB#5 is the problem, even S/D can take shortbow…

So this is actually the problem that Nocta was talking about. Our combat styles (s/d d/p soon-to-be staff) don’t affect our ability to take shortbow. So if we have a weaponset that is able to fight people 1v1 AND our shortbow, then no point with fewer than 2 people on it will be safe from us.

In essence, taking a duel-oriented weapon set (if it existed) doesn’t detract from our ability to be across the map.

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Arlowslol.1974:

I dont think SB#5 is the problem, even S/D can take shortbow…

So this is actually the problem that Nocta was talking about. Our combat styles (s/d d/p soon-to-be staff) don’t affect our ability to take shortbow. So if we have a weaponset that is able to fight people 1v1 AND our shortbow, then no point with fewer than 2 people on it will be safe from us.

In essence, taking a duel-oriented weapon set (if it existed) doesn’t detract from our ability to be across the map.

Actually the problem is that we keep staying in meta thanks to our shortbow (5#) and not thanks to our duel-oriented weapon set. If for some reason anet should decide to nerf shortbow 5 to 300 range thief would instantly kicked from every game mode.
It’s like mesmer 1 years ago when it was a portal bot, you bringed mesmer only for portal, now thief is the same with 5 of shortbow.

skyd.9678:

Actually the problem is that we keep staying in meta thanks to our shortbow (5#) and not thanks to our duel-oriented weapon set. If for some reason anet should decide to nerf shortbow 5 to 300 range thief would instantly kicked from every game mode.
It’s like mesmer 1 years ago when it was a portal bot, you bringed mesmer only for portal, now thief is the same with 5 of shortbow.

I don’t see why these issues are mutually exclusive. I agree that our shortbow is what’s keeping us competitive in PvP, but wouldn’t you like to be something other than a +1/decap bot?

Most Thieves would gladly lose Shortbow #5 in exchange for the tools most other professions have. Tell it to ANet though, they seem pretty happy maintaining the “thief sucks at 1v1s; only can decap and +1s” status quo.

skyd.9678:

blarghhrrkblah.3412:

Arlowslol.1974:

I dont think SB#5 is the problem, even S/D can take shortbow…

So this is actually the problem that Nocta was talking about. Our combat styles (s/d d/p soon-to-be staff) don’t affect our ability to take shortbow. So if we have a weaponset that is able to fight people 1v1 AND our shortbow, then no point with fewer than 2 people on it will be safe from us.

In essence, taking a duel-oriented weapon set (if it existed) doesn’t detract from our ability to be across the map.

Actually the problem is that we keep staying in meta thanks to our shortbow (5#) and not thanks to our duel-oriented weapon set. If for some reason anet should decide to nerf shortbow 5 to 300 range thief would instantly kicked from every game mode.
It’s like mesmer 1 years ago when it was a portal bot, you bringed mesmer only for portal, now thief is the same with 5 of shortbow.

Because they nerfed our duel oreinted weaponsets instead of nerfing our ability to be anywhere we want on the map.
And while shortbow 5 is a big part of why you want a thief, the class also bring some insane tools for conquest unique to it :

Daze through stability every 20sec
Stealth rez with +20% rez speed
Shadow Refuge

Basically, out utility is way too good for us to be good duelists.

Poxxia.1547:

…

You can’t argue with thieves who don’t realise, that other classes apart from thieves suffer from lack of diversity.

…

http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

Pop each profession open and count.

Zero Day.2594:

Poxxia.1547:

…

You can’t argue with thieves who don’t realise, that other classes apart from thieves suffer from lack of diversity.

…

http://metabattle.com/wiki/MetaBattle_Wiki

Pop each profession open and count.

Thieves have two builds in the top category, which is as good as most professions. Honestly, many ranger players would kill to have a build in the ‘meta’ category.

So…in a recent thread about PU nerf being too much, I said that the average damage that backstab did to a light armor golem (with the meta build) was about 6500 on average for a crit. I was just messing around in HotM and decided to just backstab stuff for old times sake. I was unpleasantly surprised to find that I was actually only dealing about 4500 to 5000 damage to the light armor golem with my backstab. Somehow I didn’t notice this when I was testing for non-critical hits.

Anyway, just wanted to throw this out there. The setup used to get these numbers is the D/p thief on metabattle.

edit: apparently numbers are kitten

“None of all classes in this game are under/overpowered. You just have to Learn2Play noob”

- PvP Elitist
(this is what we tend to hear from those guys)

I play as a mediguard for barely a month and as an unskilled lad I can say that thieves are really weak. It just takes to get out of stun and thieves have it uphill, even if they go stealth you can still more or less aim where they are due to thief icon being still displayed on minimap after going in stealth. Even if you blindly attack or use random AoE their low hp pool and poor survival capabilities make them greatly squishy. It takes one smite condition with a condition to make thieves go like “aww crap” now If someone has loads of AoE then the fun for thieves ends there.
But it’s a 1v1 issue, they are doing much better in other ways like fast decap from point to point, taking out cruicial targets like support builds or those who are running away or are occupied with fighting someone else. During certain matches I experienced in both opponent’s and my team that thieves if played well can end a team fight in merely bunch of seconds just by downing all enemies with their insane burst.
If you just help them to keep hostiles out of them, they can safely do massive damage.

As everyone has said, thieves would be stupidly OP if they could be everywhere at once while being able to most of their matchups…

Belial.9350:

As everyone has said, thieves would be stupidly OP if they could be everywhere at once while being able to most of their matchups…

Good thing that’s what literally no one is asking for. Look around the Thief forums and you will see many people openly admitting that they’d gladly lose Shortbow #5 if it meant gaining the ability to take hits without exploding like every other profession in the game.

Poxxia.1547:

You cannot argue with thieves who don’t realise how many builds they have forced out – both in the past AND present.

I see this is a frequent argument, please tell me builds that would be viable NOW and they are not because of thief? That means they would be beating at least half of the other meta specs. I am really interested in your (or anyone’s) answer.

Ihales.3820:

Poxxia.1547:

You cannot argue with thieves who don’t realise how many builds they have forced out – both in the past AND present.

I see this is a frequent argument, please tell me builds that would be viable NOW and they are not because of thief? That means they would be beating at least half of the other meta specs. I am really interested in your (or anyone’s) answer.

I am not sure if you are asking out of curiosity or it is a rhetorical question? If it is the latter I am not in any way obliged to answer. I can’t in any way say for sure, that it would be viable – that would be a logical fallacy, and if you attempt to “prove me wrong” by this strawman, then it is just a cheap trick.
We can argue about the past, about what was pushed out, and we can talk about what builds are vulnerable to thieves – but to talk about absolutes is just pure bait – which I have a feeling you are totally aware of.

On the other hand: Where is your proof, that they didn’t? Are you going to counter my argument by demanding a proof? Proofs make little sense in this context.

So yeah: If you want to have a discussion, then I am by all means open to it. Otherwise I just see it as a poorly concealed bait.

PS: The last part of your argument holds no water in my world. Nor does it make any sense – if you follow that line of argument, there is only 1 meta-build. There is something apart from 1vs1 in conquest.

You sure did type a lot just to avoid answering his question lol.

I’ll answer it for you: None

No builds are being kept out because of thief in today’s game

DUDES thief is op and fine, just when you get more than 1 in team ask him to rerol to ANY OTHER class cuz you have like 80% chance to lose if you get 2 or more thieves in team. Ye i think Thief is well balanced and definitly OP, he can run stealth and run and run, SO MANY OPTIONS guys!Thieves cant Teamfight Cant rly 1v1 enemies on thier skillvl, but gosh they can RUN to the point DECAP it and go die as +1 in teamfight (from massive aoe and cleave that IF NOT VAMP RUNES can kill him in 2 sec)

Still thieves can Shadowrefuge better and stronger teammate to fight for him and carry his kitten but guess what? Soon new revealt bots will come to play with Herald and other fun spells.

TL:NR : Thief OP end of debate.

Ihales.3820:

I see this is a frequent argument, please tell me builds that would be viable NOW and they are not because of thief? That means they would be beating at least half of the other meta specs. I am really interested in your (or anyone’s) answer.

It’s not ‘thief’ that keeps them out, but D/P thief; it, in conjunction with power mesmers, keep any other sort of high damage but glassy DPS build out of the game – specifically, scepter eles, glass rangers, and sword thieves. Such builds are good tank busters, but simply get eaten by stealth → burst → restealth → burst ad nauseam with very little recourse.