Guild Wars 2

Engineer with base toughness and 24000 hp( knight amulet) vs average thief,I want to add that i dont have any debuffs or any kind of frienzy and all damage comes from stealth .. Anet needs to do something about thiefs and its amount( 50 % of every team)

“all damage comes from stealth .. "

He’s using the stealth spec for more damage an +% from behind or side, along with a few other things like dagger training. Also, he is most likely purely a glass cannon with like 14k hp.

It’s the way the formats are built and I don’t know how many times I need to repeat this. They are not balancing conquest like they would a gvg, it wouldn’t be as “fun” that way. It really wouldn’t be though.

frenzy debuff from quickness elixir. Medium glass canon ranger here never took more than 9k damage, go troll somewhere else.

Well even with gvg type balance, if you played gw1, you would know assassins were always (when with the right builds) fast spikers. They always have been able to kill very fast. However, one block or interrupt could really screw up their chain. It really made the sins have to play around stuff. There just seems to be much more depth to gw1 combat that it’s insane.

Qtin.6940:

frenzy debuff from quickness elixir. Medium glass canon ranger here never took more than 9k damage, go troll somewhere else.

LOl, why i have to complain about underpowered class, like a thief, maybee they need a buff?

Its the danger of running base toughness. The build he is running is all about getting that backstab crit while using the 150% damage signet. You are using grenades so next time you see him stealth throw down blind grenades. If that backstab misses, its a easy win from there on.

Bestia.9426:

Qtin.6940:

frenzy debuff from quickness elixir. Medium glass canon ranger here never took more than 9k damage, go troll somewhere else.

LOl, why i have to complain about underpowered class, like a thief, maybee they need a buff?

The drawing in you picture looks funny… ya know… rooster

The thieves build revolves around 1 skill called assassins signet. Once thief shadow-steps to you and goes invisible hit a condition removal if immobilized or better yet block or blind once he’ll miss that signet you get a free kill. As a thief when I see the assassin signet on another thief I just dodge roll towards him and half the time he shadow steps and misses. If I get immobilized I blind(this is enough to stop 90% of the damage that kills you) and shadow-step away.

No matter the build, there should never be possibility of ~one shotting anything in a true pvp game imho, aside from the self +dmg taken debuff mentioned here. Whenever you put +critdmg modifier in a pvp game, it will go horribly wrong at some point.

Once again gw1 had it perfectly, all crits were +50% of weapons max dmg, no random +200% crits that could one/two shot stuff if you got lucky/unlucky, ofc assassins had a huge spike anyways, but it came from ability combos, not from random crits…

@Qtin That is odd. I am a beast master and I almost get one shotted everytime from a theif that is constantly in and out of stealth meaning, da da dadada I can’t attack it! This is a massive issue in WvW as well. Unless you have a 100% tank build good luck.

Nyypsy.1830:

No matter the build, there should never be possibility of ~one shotting anything in a true pvp game imho, aside from the self +dmg taken debuff mentioned here. Whenever you put +critdmg modifier in a pvp game, it will go horribly wrong at some point.

Once again gw1 had it perfectly, all crits were +50% of weapons max dmg, no random +200% crits that could one/two shot stuff if you got lucky/unlucky, ofc assassins had a huge spike anyways, but it came from ability combos, not from random crits…

He wasn’t one shot. He was in a like 2v1 (at least) and died, then came to the forums complaining that he got hit for <12k by one attack.

Just about all the classes can deal a ton of damage in a short period of time. The only issue really lies with the ability to stack +% damage on Thief. Assassin’s Signet, Scholar Rune, traits, etc. You can deal a ton of damage with that one attack if you build like that. However, it doesn’t make a thief OP. It seems to me like it’s working as intended. The thief is the squishiest class in the game (tied for lowest HP with Guardian, but uses Medium armor, which is barely a step above Light). He relies on stealth to survive, and if you CC him and then focus him, he’s instantly dead. You take away a thief’s damage, and you might as well just remove the thief.

Areannet stated to learn how to counter something before claiming it’s OP. Everyone just seems to claim thief is OP without even thinking of a possible counter. The assassin class will obviously kill those who build squishy. And sorry to tell you, but running around with base toughness will get you hit relatively hard.

R E F L H E X.8413:

Well even with gvg type balance, if you played gw1, you would know assassins were always (when with the right builds) fast spikers. They always have been able to kill very fast. However, one block or interrupt could really screw up their chain. It really made the sins have to play around stuff. There just seems to be much more depth to gw1 combat that it’s insane.

I kinda miss the concept of Assassins from GW1 and compared to Thiefs in GW2. As assassin in GW1 you were supposed to rotate skills in combos on your skillbar where one skill followed other. In GW2 Thiefs are just 2-3 buttoms spamming and to be honest i would do it to.. if the game will allow it and other skills are crap compared to the ONE.
Also Assassins in GW1 had no stealth which i think there is too many stealth in GW2. They were using only strong teleports / shadowsteps which was an awesome mechanic allowing to the assassin a moment of supprise attack (which is basically the point) and not hurting the game by stealth at all..

how about the whiney scrubs enter tournies, l2p and stop flooding the forums with their whines and cries about builds that are totally unviable in the pvp-modus that is meant to be played: 5v5.
do you honestly think anet will balance around scrubs getting noobstomped in 8v8?

Krathalos.3461:

He wasn’t one shot. He was in a like 2v1 (at least) and died, then came to the forums complaining that he got hit for <12k by one attack.

Well one of the screenshots show only dmg source with 14k backstab 5.7k steal, thats going to oneshot any ele build that I’ve been playing so far :P

I’m not arguing about taking away dmg from thief, I actually wholeheartedly agree with you that thief should be sneaky evasive melee burst dmg class, I just don’t think the burst should come from one ability (or have the possibility of), but rather a skill combo of some sort, like hit 3abilities in a row and if the first two hit successfully the third will do huge dmg etc, something fun like that, not just press 1-2butas and pray for crits…

Stealth would be fine with me, if it would actually work properly, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a thief come out of stealth when the swirl effect that indicates end of stealth comes, he can easily hit 1-2seconds freely before the stealth actually drops, that has to be the most annoying thing in the whole game tbh…

Ofc you can make some mass stealth build, but focusing too much on it will kitten your dps so its ok I think, maybe the aoe stealth field should only apply stealth once because the duration of that thing is just huge and it comes back even if you attack something…

Nyypsy.1830:

Krathalos.3461:

He wasn’t one shot. He was in a like 2v1 (at least) and died, then came to the forums complaining that he got hit for <12k by one attack.

Well one of the screenshots show only dmg source with 14k backstab 5.7k steal, thats going to oneshot any ele build that I’ve been playing so far :P

I’m not arguing about taking away dmg from thief, I actually wholeheartedly agree with you that thief should be sneaky evasive melee burst dmg class, I just don’t think the burst should come from one ability (or have the possibility of), but rather a skill combo of some sort, like hit 3abilities in a row and if the first two hit successfully the third will do huge dmg etc, something fun like that, not just press 1-2butas and pray for crits…

Stealth would be fine with me, if it would actually work properly, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a thief come out of stealth when the swirl effect that indicates end of stealth comes, he can easily hit 1-2seconds freely before the stealth actually drops, that has to be the most annoying thing in the whole game tbh…

Ofc you can make some mass stealth build, but focusing too much on it will kitten your dps so its ok I think, maybe the aoe stealth field should only apply stealth once because the duration of that thing is just huge and it comes back even if you attack something…

If you’re looking for a game where builds aren’t focused on single attacks or skills, then you’re playing the wrong game.

GS Warrior, for example, is completely built toward Hundred Blades. Every single attack other than Hundred Blades is utility. Two distance closers, vulnerability on basic combo, and a slow moving ranged cripple. Add in some CC from utilities, and Warriors can effectively one shot pretty easily with Hundred Blades. Sword/Pistol Thief is another example of this. Every attack they have other than Pistol Whip is utility, with Pistol Whip being their source of damage.

I’m sure there’s others that I can’t think of right now as well.

@Nyypsy, thieves honestly dude, dont have that option (3 hit combo), each weapon set of a thief has one main damage move, and the rest are utility.

Glad today’s patch further improved Thieves and somewhat nerfed Elementalists. It was really something in dire need.

yeah and arena net wont do anything about it because whining well still exist in either ways.
nerfing thiefs well make thiefs QQ
keeping thiefs OP well also have QQ

either resilience being added into game or just get one shorted

There are two ways to deal with this. See it coming and actively mitigate it in some fashion, or be picked up by an ally. Once the Thief has done this, he’s pretty much spent and is nearly incapable of combat for quite some time. Honestly, it’s rather easy to see coming and survive, but even if you do get caught by it the downed state is a rather effective counter-measure against burst builds in general.

Vaerah.4907:

Glad today’s patch further improved Thieves and somewhat nerfed Elementalists. It was really something in dire need.

HS needs a cooldown, or damage reduction. Spec’d right you can spam it 5 times before initiative runs out and kill anything. And yes I tested it.

It takes little skill to kill as a thief, but plenty to know how to counter it. Definitely not balanced in my opinion.

Pistol Whip does an incredible amount of damage. When hastened, they blow up players within 2 seconds, which is simply not enough time to react in a match. Given how frequently thieves can get their haste (every 30?ish seconds), it’s imbalaced in hot-join pvp.

This needs to be appropriately adjusted.

It takes just as little skill to counter a thief. Blind or a slow+dodge roll away would counter the signet backstab burst. The key to stopping a BS thief is to dodge the initial burst and then kite him at <400 range with a constant cripple. No real way to close that gap, unless he wants to HS spam nothing, or risk using Shadowstep only to get knockdowned/stunned after using the ability.

Considering he’s an engineer Smoke Bomb from the Bomb kite is a pulsing AoE blind. Toss that down and you won’t take any damage. Toss down a cripple, and you’re kitting the thief easily with swift+vigor.

Pressure always makes you play hectic. This is most likely a case of shock at the burst + old man panic under the pressure.

Shukran.4851:

blind opponent and he will waste initiative.
dodge or breakstun and hw will waste initiative.

do you know how many hp has a cannon glass thief? 14k
do you know how much armor has a cannon glass thief? 1.9-2k
do you know how strong is a thief with no initiative? it is useless.
do you know after haste thief lose all endurance and stop regeneting it?

do you need some more help to learn to fight against thief? ask
can you stop whine? ….

Assume a nominal amount of lag, say 200ms. Assume further the thief is stealthed, so you don’t realize it’s a thief until he’s already attacking, give that another 0.5s. Now you have about 1 second to react before you’re dead.

It doesn’t matter if the thief loses all endurance if the fight is over.

DoubleUnder.9052:

Vaerah.4907:

Glad today’s patch further improved Thieves and somewhat nerfed Elementalists. It was really something in dire need.

HS needs a cooldown, or damage reduction. Spec’d right you can spam it 5 times before initiative runs out and kill anything. And yes I tested it.

It takes little skill to kill as a thief, but plenty to know how to counter it. Definitely not balanced in my opinion.

Heartseeker has already been nerfed into the ground. It didn’t kill good players before, it doesn’t kill good players now.

If I walk up to any Guardian/Necro/Mesmer/Any other class that has been playing this game for more than a day, I will melt trying to spam Heartseeker.

It is only, and I mean ONLY, viable as a finisher. Thief has more powerful specs for burst dps, whine about those.

As Warrior with 28k hp, I was once taken down by a thief in around two seconds, no joke. All they have to do is spam a few skills and kills will flow to them, and when their skill combos got interrupted, they just use one of their many stealth skills and they can safely plan their next move again. This is BS. As long as Thief remains in their current state, PvP will never become enjoyable especially for more squishy professions.

Deadly Toy.2630:

As Warrior with 28k hp, I was once taken down by a thief in around two seconds, no joke. All they have to do is spam a few skills and kills will flow to them, and when their skill combos got interrupted, they just use one of their many stealth skills and they can safely plan their next move again. This is BS. As long as Thief remains in their current state, PvP will never become enjoyable especially for more squishy professions.

What about godmode Mesmers? Guardians that can hold a point against 2-3+ players at a time for several seconds until their team mates come to assist?

Ever consider that your class should be brought up to par instead of ruining other classes? I can barely compete with a good Elementalist/Mesmer/Engineer, as a Thief. If they nerf Thieves then I guarantee you the FOTM is going to go somewhere else. Oh wait, it already has. It’s called Mesmer!

The only reasonable approach is to try to get the classes on an even playing field a little bit at a time.

A guildie of mine is playing some other game now cuz he got bored killing everything in GW2. Guess what, he was playing a quickness thief. It’s not a pure thief problem, quickness warrior can be pretty sick too, but I definitely do think it’s a problem that quickness enables these ridiculous dmg spikes. No matter what you spec against it, you’re never fast enough to avoid all the dmg, and if they get you down to half HP before you can do so much as target them you’re still screwed.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Shukran.4851:

blind opponent and he will waste initiative.
dodge or breakstun and hw will waste initiative.

do you know how many hp has a cannon glass thief? 14k
do you know how much armor has a cannon glass thief? 1.9-2k
do you know how strong is a thief with no initiative? it is useless.
do you know after haste thief lose all endurance and stop regeneting it?

do you need some more help to learn to fight against thief? ask
can you stop whine? ….

Assume a nominal amount of lag, say 200ms. Assume further the thief is stealthed, so you don’t realize it’s a thief until he’s already attacking, give that another 0.5s. Now you have about 1 second to react before you’re dead.

It doesn’t matter if the thief loses all endurance if the fight is over.

You can attribute that to a character culling issue with the game engine. I get anywhere from 100-200ms pings on other MMOs (Dark Age of Camelot), and this issue is not present. Dark Age of Camelot also has indefinite stealth, until you are engaged in combat, however the character appearing on your screen after leaving stealth is nearly instant.

You can’t nerf classes based on inherent issues with the game engine.

I agree that Pistol Whip is a bit much due to its inherent spammable stun component, and I would definitely have the devs look into some alternatives for that. Especially in combination with Quickness.

I am of the belief that Quickness is a stupid gameplay mechanic altogether, so I went with a Condition build to roll just about any build that relies on Quickness. Pistol Whip is the only spec that gives me trouble, due to the fact that dodging/stun breaks are useless against it.

If you get out of range, they have a spammable immobilize. If you’re in melee range, they have a spammable stun. There aren’t many counters to it unless you’re a bunker build, which is not an option for all classes.

However, let me reiterate: YOU CAN NOT NERF CLASSES BASED ON INHERENT GAME ENGINE ISSUES.

Liav.7598:

Every 48 seconds when traited.

Also the only version of utility Quickness that can have its negative effects mitigated entirely, without sacrificing too much.

Immunity on movement impairing forms of CC and we’re golden. There’s no need for a class to be able to perma-stun you.

Stun breaks are useless against it when it’s a spammable ability.

Yes, I play a Thief.

Edit: To the guy above me: See my post. See your post. See why you’re wrong.

Stun breaks work extremely well against it and the fact that they can’t dodge leaves them wide open for anything. Also if thieves are following a player around and trying to spam pistol whip on them, they are doing it wrong.

Good players prepare for a thief using sword/pistol to use pistol whip; or a rifle engi to use net shot or overcharge shot (which leads into big burst), or a shortbow ranger to use quickness+crossfire spam; or a greatsword warrior to use bulls charge+frenzy+HB

as thief i react fast enough to take only 6-8k damage max by another thief whipping. if i see he is under quickness, i wait for his PW to end then i go to him and i kill him because he can’t do much.
half HP vs a thief dead, i prefer half HP.

Liav.7598:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Shukran.4851:

blind opponent and he will waste initiative.
dodge or breakstun and hw will waste initiative.

do you know how many hp has a cannon glass thief? 14k
do you know how much armor has a cannon glass thief? 1.9-2k
do you know how strong is a thief with no initiative? it is useless.
do you know after haste thief lose all endurance and stop regeneting it?

do you need some more help to learn to fight against thief? ask
can you stop whine? ….

Assume a nominal amount of lag, say 200ms. Assume further the thief is stealthed, so you don’t realize it’s a thief until he’s already attacking, give that another 0.5s. Now you have about 1 second to react before you’re dead.

It doesn’t matter if the thief loses all endurance if the fight is over.

You can attribute that to a character culling issue with the game engine. I get anywhere from 100-200ms pings on other MMOs (Dark Age of Camelot), and this issue is not present. Dark Age of Camelot also has indefinite stealth, until you are engaged in combat, however the character appearing on your screen after leaving stealth is nearly instant.

You can’t nerf classes based on inherent issues with the game engine.

I agree that Pistol Whip is a bit much due to its inherent spammable stun component, and I would definitely have the devs look into some alternatives for that. Especially in combination with Quickness.

I am of the belief that Quickness is a stupid gameplay mechanic altogether, so I went with a Condition build to roll just about any build that relies on Quickness. Pistol Whip is the only spec that gives me trouble, due to the fact that dodging/stun breaks are useless against it.

If you get out of range, they have a spammable immobilize. If you’re in melee range, they have a spammable stun. There aren’t many counters to it unless you’re a bunker build, which is not an option for all classes.

However, let me reiterate: YOU CAN NOT NERF CLASSES BASED ON INHERENT GAME ENGINE ISSUES.

Umm… yes you can. And you do. You see if there is an inherent issue with the game engine (I don’t believe this to be the case), and you cannot remedy it, you balance the game around it.

Shukran.4851:

as thief i react fast enough to take only 6-8k damage max by another thief whipping. if i see he is under quickness, i wait for his PW to end then i go to him and i kill him because he can’t do much.
half HP vs a thief dead, i prefer half HP.

This game was not intended to blow people up in 2 seconds – that’s Rift PvP, not GW2 PvP.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Shukran.4851:

as thief i react fast enough to take only 6-8k damage max by another thief whipping. if i see he is under quickness, i wait for his PW to end then i go to him and i kill him because he can’t do much.
half HP vs a thief dead, i prefer half HP.

This game was not intended to blow people up in 2 seconds – that’s Rift PvP, not GW2 PvP.

dev said they want fights to be fast, so around 20-40 secs. that’s the gw2 pvp they intended.

2s =/= 20-40s, just say’n. 20-40 seconds is plenty of time to adjust for mistakes or react to what your opponent is doing in combat. 2s…not so much.

LOL at you thieves trying to justify this. We all know something needs to change but lets be careful and do it the right things I don’t want thieves to be broken in a bad way anymore than I want them to be broken OP.

as i would like mesmers to be toned down, but i won’t go around the forum whining for nerf.
sometime it happens i die to some quickness thief or war, i am not perfect. but i try to improve at least my reactions…

Quickness needs a change. Anyone who states otherwise is just looking out for their own spec. That said, I don’t have any problems at all with Warriors or Pistol Whip Thieves. Break whatever CC they initially use, dodge away, kite for 4 seconds while doing whatever ranged damage you can, proceed to pubstomp once the buff is gone.

He did 21k in 3 abilities. I play a Thief and even I know this is over the top. I don’t know why they bothered adding a hard-hitting backstab. That’s the number one complaint besides stun-locking for any Rogue archetype on any game.

One class being imbalanced doesn’t mean that another class being imbalanced is OK. I do agree that some classes just needs buffs in certain areas, but that doesn’t change the fact that 21k in around 2-seconds, with 3 skills, with only one being a CD (steal) is over the top. If everyone is brought up to that, then it just becomes a gigantic burst fest where the only skill that matters is having the shortest CDs.

In any case, 8v8 balance is always going to be screwed. Don’t bother trying to fix it.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Pistol Whip does an incredible amount of damage. When hastened, they blow up players within 2 seconds, which is simply not enough time to react in a match. Given how frequently thieves can get their haste (every 30?ish seconds), it’s imbalaced in hot-join pvp.

This needs to be appropriately adjusted.

What class do you play?

On a slightly related note, I was able to blow up any glass cannon with my thief build that used no quickness at all. All it was was a Cloak & Dagger, Steal (traited with dmg), and backstab.

I learned with shadowstepping that you can do it in the middle of an animation/channel and the animation/channel will continue to work, so if you start using CloakNdagger and then steal right afterwards, you’ll hit with stealth and then with CnD and go straight into stealth for a backstab.

Was fun, but was a useless build while steal was on CD. I guess in the meantime you could switch to SnP for pistol whipping, but that leaves you without a shortbow to deal with mesmers/minions/turrets/etc

Honestly, my fav Thief build is SnD, there’s so much more utility than the one trick pony that haste + PW is or haste + HS.

the thief spell haste (or quickness in general) does need looking at

pistol whip without quickness tho imo is fine, most id suggest is remove the stun and remove the self root

Wolfe.3097:

the thief spell haste (or quickness in general) does need looking at

pistol whip without quickness tho imo is fine, most id suggest is remove the stun and remove the self root

I agree here. Pistol whip without quickness is not a problem; and if the stun was removed (or changed into an interrupt) and the self-root removed it would actually require some modicum of skill to use in sticking to the target.

Actually, I think none of the attacks should be self-rooting; this includes warrior’s hundred-blades. Atm they’re just pure pub-stomp abilities; they have no use in higher-tier play where everyone’s packing a stun break/condition removal of some kind (and have even less use without quickness).

Zyrusticae.7245:

Wolfe.3097:

the thief spell haste (or quickness in general) does need looking at

pistol whip without quickness tho imo is fine, most id suggest is remove the stun and remove the self root

I agree here. Pistol whip without quickness is not a problem; and if the stun was removed (or changed into an interrupt) and the self-root removed it would actually require some modicum of skill to use in sticking to the target.

Actually, I think none of the attacks should be self-rooting; this includes warrior’s hundred-blades. Atm they’re just pure pub-stomp abilities; they have no use in higher-tier play where everyone’s packing a stun break/condition removal of some kind (and have even less use without quickness).

Pistol whip and HB is extremely useful in “higher tier play”. You just have to know when to use them.

on my thief build (dagger/pistil+shortbow) i run 30 critical strikes (source of high damage for most thief specs), 30 shadow arts (stealth effects), and 10 trickery (party boons on steal use)

i have about 2.7-2.8k attack total (all stats added together), pure glass cannon thieves only have maybe 400 more at most (3.2k)

i also have about 1.9k-2k armor and about 18k hp, 50% crit chance

do you think i get 14k backstabs? HELL NO, not even on glass cannon mesmers (tho i might manage 8k on them).

but why is my backstabs so much lower then these other thieves even tho i have somewhat similar attack power?

damage stacking, they take traits and skills all designed to maximize damage in that one moment, that one backstab.

assassins signet, when used, 150% more damage on next attack, that right there can turn 6k into 9k, 10k into 15k, you get the idea

then you can have the trait that when you activate any signet, you get 5 stacks of might for 5 seconds, 5…tho it only lasts 5 seconds thats a nice amount.

you can also get one more stack if you trait into thrill of the crime for steal.

assassins signet i think is a 1 min cd so 48 if traited for it.

basically when assassins signet and steal are not up, this thief is a slightly harder hitting, much worse defensively version of me, i hit hard, but within a rather reasonable area i think.

yes i think its stupid we can do it, but the problem isnt the base damage of backstab, its damage stacking

Once the nerfs come around…

…Just wait before people start complaining about Bleed thieves spamming LDB+ (OP) caltrops/on dodge and Thieves with Sword/Dagger with mesmer runes spamming daze. Fun times ahead, we will have this Thief plague for a while.

Also, condition (+duration) with confusion stacking Mesmer. Try it.

There’s a long way for this game to be considered mostly balanced or even Esport level.

If you agree with having 20k burst out of stealth in 2 seconds I guess you wont have a problem if they buff mesmer damage so I can do the same with my main.

Payneful.7934:

Pistol whip and HB is extremely useful in “higher tier play”. You just have to know when to use them.

With quickness, yes. Without quickness… hell no. With the combination of a self-root AND melee range? Good luck with that!

Khenzy.9348:

Once the nerfs come around…

…Just wait before people start complaining about Bleed thieves spamming LDB+ (OP) caltrops/on dodge and Thieves with Sword/Dagger with mesmer runes spamming daze. Fun times ahead, we will have this Thief plague for a while.

Also, condition (+duration) with confusion stacking Mesmer. Try it.

There’s a long way for this game to be considered mostly balanced or even Esport level.

yes every aspect of thief is OP, at no point is it a L2Play issue.

ive played LDB build for example, if it ever stops moving its dead outright, and ive played against LDB thieves as a stealth based backstab spec (worst possible spec vs this spec as a thief) and killed it, simply cuz i knew the aiblities and knew how best to counter them with my spec. it wasnt easy, as i said, i had the worst possible spec to fight his as a thief.

@mayama if your talking to me, then you didnt read my post, or your so blinded with thief hate you couldnt comprehend it, at no point did i say 20k burst in 2 seconds was ok or justifiable, i instead outlined how its possible and what the REAL culprits are (assassins signet and 6 stacks of fury combo, plus more probably)

take a breath, regain some of your unbias logic, and try again