Guild Wars 2

In order to play a thief, one has to complete level 1, purchase the correct armor/weapon, copy a backstab build and practice pressing 3 buttons as fast as possible.

I haven’t run the steal/stealth/signet/backstab build personally, so I’m not 100% sure, but you can probably macro most if not all of that attack so it can be done in one button press.

Wasabi Kitty.8247

This thread is ridiculous.

Every time, in any online game, when something is a little bit too powerful, then the people who play that class/champion/whatever it is in that game, will defend it to the end of time. Most people will swear all day that something isn’t too strong and shouldn’t be nerfed. It’s completely ludicrous.

You can see it in any online game. In LoL people will spend all day defending a champ that they play that’s OP. Hell even when Xin Zhao was released the people who played him insisted that he wasn’t OP. No, he was completely broken.

Thieves give way too much reward for how easy they are to play. And yes, I have a thief. They are too strong, get over it.

I agree. The community does not help as much as it could in describing a balanced game for devs to aim for. There are too many people trying to rationalise/justify OP classes.

It might sound mad, but I think there is an argument for using some more neutral/simplistic guide for who should be nerfed. If the devs applied a rule something to the effect of “Any class played +25% or more above the average should be nerfed.”

It ignores all the subtlties of class analysis and just works purely on the assumption that any class played that much in PvP must be OP. This has been true for EVERY MMO I have ever played. The OP classes always attract a lot of people who want an easy route to success.

The thief here will continue to be reviled by nearly everyone not defending them for the same reason the thief/rogue/assassin is in every game. It’s an alpha strike character with significant escape mechanisms.

In order for the class to be balanced, its damage after alpha strike must be low enough so that average DPS over a fight averages out to what another player puts out. Any higher than this and the alpha is too large, any lower and thieves will be inadequate. At current, total DPS+alpha does not match this, and overall I believe it’s because it’s too easy to apply it in comparison to applying that DPS with another class.

A thief class has a tendency(and it’s the case here too) to survive not on ability to take advantage of effective health, rather, it utilizes escape mechanisms to avoid the damage that others soak. Survivability is much closer to balanced than damage, but on the whole it is still more useful than a commensurate amount of toughness/healing/vitality on another class.

Some of this isn’t entirely the fault of the thief. Far, far too many classes and specs have their damage application placed extremely unevenly across their abilities(Warrior greatsword is a good example). Against this large number of classes, anything that can escape that singular ability, whatever it may be, is worth far more than it’s estimated value in additional health could ever equate to.

Frankly, A more even damage application across the board on all classes would probably hurt thieves as much as any specific nerf to their class would because they’d suddenly be eating bigger attacks, even after avoiding the 100blades and whatnot.

Problem with theif:

Even as a GLASSCANON, they have great sustain through kite and downedstate. Meaning: they are not glasscanons at all, they are super bursters with massive kite.

Theifs are the easiest class to kill with, henche the fact that so many are playing them.

They are easy to kill with, but they also have the best escape mechanics in the game. Making them easy mode. Keep their dps, take away their escape abilities once in combat.

Wombat.3510:

It shouldn’t take more skill to defend yourself from a thief than it takes to play the class itself.

Currently, all other classes need to spend hundreds of hours playing a thief until you are good enough to recognize the sound and animation they make before a stealth attack, not to mention, anticipate correctly when and where the attack will take place. You also have to hope that there are no other sounds around you or you may miss the stealth/backstab sound. Next we can’t use our stun breaker on anyone else because we have to make it ready to use if a thief attacks. We then have to be ready at all times to execute the stun breaker in .1 seconds after we hear the correct sound and hope that it actually breaks the stun. In the meantime, we will just ignore everyone else. We then have to execute an evasion in .1 seconds to get ourselves out of backstab range and swing wildly in the air in all directions hoping to hit something. If somehow the thief misses and only takes 3/4 of our health with other attacks, we have to get down on our knees and pray that he has used all his initiative, stops attacking and stealths away, never to come back until our stun breaker is back up.

In order to play a thief, one has to complete level 1, purchase the correct armor/weapon, copy a backstab build and practice pressing 3 buttons as fast as possible.

Yeah, the balance seems fine!

This is way to exaggerated. You can use damage mitigation to overcome it as well. I rarely die to a back stab thief on my ele. That’s on an elementalist. And it doesn’t take hundreds of hours to learn the sound of 3 skills. It is relatively easy to counter a relatively easy build to play.
Thieves are meant to have an advantage if they catch you off guard or not paying attention. This Isnt a new thing by any means.

I’m simply stating a fact. As I was saying, I have played every class in the game. And I see thieves as the top class in pvp. Why do thieves have a higher chance to beat others? This is the question. In a fair fight each party should have the same chance to win. Not all thief players are top players, yet they are winning the most fights.

“strong right now” could be interpreted as op in another person’s view. So in your view they may not be defined as op. However according to the majority of the other players they are op. That is why we see so many people writing posts about how op they are on the forums. How the majority define something makes it a norm. In this case, op as that is how almost everyone else call it.

Thieves team fight may not be the best, but certainly not the worst. Aoe, single target burst are still there. What changed is that they are hated so people target them first Why and who’s to blame for that? I have seen a lot of posts of thief players giving away their weaknesses. Yes, but here is a question. Why should other classes be extra cautious when facing a thief? For example, turning up their speakers just for this one class’s skills.

One combo burst kill is just too easy with this class. After that I can just pop a stealth and walk away. Guess who has the most stealth skills in game?

I don’t really care if Anet does what to this game. But so far their pvps are unbalance. I have many characters so I don’t need to pick a side. Just my objective view.[/quote]

I would consider a good bunker to be a better class than a thief in PvP. Sure thieves are great at killing someone fast, but in a game with a downed state and plenty of ways to revive your teammates this becomes less meaningful. (This isnt a 1v1 oriented game) I feel much more useful on my ele than a thief. I can heal, remove conditions, stop stomps, revive players from a distance, mass cc. In a team game I consider this much stronger than a limited class like the thief.
When I say strong, I simply mean because people just can’t quite counter then yet. But they’ll learn.
Lastly, all professions have things you hours watch out for. As I said in another post Thieves are designed to have an advantage on people unaware of their surroundings, this type of class is commonplace in a mmo.

tOss.9024:

I’m simply stating a fact.

I searched your entire post… twice… and still never found a fact.

Perhaps you can bold, underline and italicize this “fact” you speak of. All I read was opinions. Grossly exaggerated opinions but opinions nonetheless.

@Albane

What about other builds that are not based on burst damage (venom, bleeding, blinding builds)?

djmckie.4876:

I’m not complaining or anything…

And I’m not a white male middle class suburban American posting on an internet forum.

Varyag.3751:

djmckie.4876:

there must be a reason so many people are rolling thief.

Because they’re the faceroll class, essentially.

Total faceroll. I made one and was easily destroying people by spamming 3 skills that I didn’t even bother to read what the other 2 fully did. It makes me hate to play my….less than ok ranger.

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

Varyag.3751:

djmckie.4876:

there must be a reason so many people are rolling thief.

Because they’re the faceroll class, essentially.

Total faceroll. I made one and was easily destroying people by spamming 3 skills that I didn’t even bother to read what the other 2 fully did. It makes me hate to play my….less than ok ranger.

THIS^^^^ When I quickly get dispatched on my (any other class) I login my thief and do a few rounds. It makes me feel better.

I too, have a confession to make… I made a Thief today and played some tPvP… and omfg, the ownage and the feeling and the dancing… It was euphoria.

It’s really quite simple.

Thieves can:

Do massive damage, at literally no risk, since missing an attack that uses Initiative incurs literally no penalty, unlike any other class who has to rely on cool downs.
Has stealth, which anet’s awful engine can’t even handle correctly, as well as has no legitimate counter (No, swinging your weapon or spamming aoe randomly is not a legitimate counter).
It’s also the fastest class in the game, with its 25% movement speed signet, and skills like Infiltrators Arrow, which completely ignores conditions that impede movement.

You people need to run some tpvp from time to time if you complain about thieves being op or being played by everyone. end of line

offence.4726:

You people need to run some tpvp from time to time if you complain about thieves being op or being played by everyone. end of line

I ran Tpvp, with two friends. We were all thieves and made it too the final round. Really? It was all of our first time playing a thief and we did that well. There is no excuse for that. All you do is hit Steal, backstab and spam heartseeker til their dead.

MarcusKilgannon.5048:

offence.4726:

You people need to run some tpvp from time to time if you complain about thieves being op or being played by everyone. end of line

I ran Tpvp, with two friends. We were all thieves and made it too the final round. Really? It was all of our first time playing a thief and we did that well. There is no excuse for that other than you just hit Steal, backstab and spam heartseeker til their dead.

Unfortunately heartseeker was nerfed with also a few other “spammy” thief skills and you only made it to last map because you we`re playing against a random pug. Try running your setup vs a real team next time.

How do you know they were random pugs? Round 2 was a 4 man guild group vs us and we still beat them. Don’t make assumptions.

@Marcus because usually these troll comps get stomped on the 1st and second map. Any 5 man team with a presetup and tactics will counter you. 4 man guild is not a 5 man team though. Im sick of ppl trolling about thieves especially from the “hotjoin” PoV which dont count if it did anet would limit the classes who can join by now. So you can try your 5 man team in paid tournaments and let me know how it works for you in a private message.

Rick that was the quoted post. You obviously are either not reading anything, or not comprehending to well or you would notice ttwo sides of an agrument and the [/quote] At the bottom there. I have a feeling youre lying, and are taking the fox news approach to arguments.

I believe this to be the thief. Why?

-Widest Skill Cap in game (Low to High skill required to play class well in PvP)
-Best Survivability in game (Stealth).
-Best Mobility in game
-Highest Burst DPS in game
-AoE second to none (Shortbow)
- Initiative

This reminds me of the Terran’s in Starcraft. Nerf them every patch and they will always find a build that vastly easier to play or flat out lasts their competition. Their mechanic’s have been put so well together(initiative & stealth) that you have to punish them for being good at what they do to balance them. Do I know how to balance them? Nope. Can I make suggestion? Yes. Should other classes get buff? Some.

What do you think is the most versatile profession? And Why?

I made a thief too for fun, and while I absolutely refused to run the faceroll backstab spec, I was still topping the boards every game with a p/d spec. Thief is ridiculously easy to kill other players with. Being a glass cannon is a non factor, the uptime on stealth is kittenin huge.

tOss.9024:

You can use damage mitigation to overcome it as well. I rarely die to a back stab thief on my ele. That’s on an elementalist. And it doesn’t take hundreds of hours to learn the sound of 3 skills. It is relatively easy to counter a relatively easy build to play.
Thieves are meant to have an advantage if they catch you off guard or not paying attention. This Isnt a new thing by any means.

Few classes have access to that kind of damage mitigation. Even then, you will still lose 1/2 or more of your hitpoints in less than a second, only to have all your stun breakers on timer and an opponent in stealth, able to attack from anywhere.

Perhaps “hundreds of hours” was a slight exaggeration but the fact remains that it takes 1 hour to learn to kill someone with a thief in 2 seconds and it takes a lot longer than that to learn to survive that same damage.

I don’t mind thieves having a stealth advantage and a single high damage ability from stealth, however, I do mind them being able to kill someone in 2 seconds regardless of what the defender is doing at the time. Anyone who doesn’t know the classes inside and out is simply going to die immediately.

Give all classes an ability that will punish new players or players not paying attention with instant death and we will have a balanced class system (and a really kitteny pvp system). Giving that ability to 1 class only is not balanced and makes for even worse pvp than if everyone had the same opportunity on their chosen class!

Don’t fix yourselves, fix the class that beats you.

Honestly, lower thief burst, but raise average DPS by double what it is, thieves do horrible DPS over time compared to other classes, they just have High Burst. ((we are the worst class in PVE atm, due to being unable to help our allies and having worse damage over time then a necromancer, in a 30 minute fight our damage is POOP compared to every other class due to initiative and how it works.))

Pistol and Most Sword Skills are broken and worthless.
Nobody uses Traps because they are worthless.
Nobody uses Venom because they are worthless.
Half of Thieves abilitys are worthless, and only the backstab ones really shine because really, Dagger Dagger Shortbow is the ONLY viable build you can really make as a thief.

Also… Learn to play please, thieves do not have any utility besides damage and running away, take away those and you might as well delete the class, they don’t have AOE Healing like other classes, they don’t have high DPS like Warrior, they don’t have High Defenses like Guardian, they have the ability to burst you down and damage you really fast. (punishing new and poor players who have no idea how to trait and rune against burst damage, which IMHO, you should because everyone does it.)

Fix yourselves before you attempt to fix another persons class, and also play against real players, not random pugs you meet in spvp testing a new build.

And please… Every class can survive that burst if they gear themselves correctly, even an elementalist.

Get Runes of Earth, Get Toughness or Vitality, Trait for Stun breakers, THIEVES do it to protect ourselves against each other, why can’t you? ((also, if you go full glass cannon, expect a thief to punish you for it by killing you, that is what we are there for.))

((And please, don’t whine about “HAVING TO GEAR towards Thieves burst!” I gear towards the burst of all classes, not just thieves, if I didn’t have the gear I do, I would die to every burster of every class I see, like Warrior/Mesmer.))

So Daecollo if an Engineer with 22k hp condition glass cannon needs 10 sec to kill a thief , while the thief needs 2 sec to kill the engineer , everything is balanced in ur eyes ?

Plz dont tell me that the thief will be kited , cause dancing blade + shortbow as the other weapon choise , doesnt work :P
We dont whine about less skilled Thiefs , but the few that shown us the true horor with the Backstab spec :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

So Daecollo if an Engineer with 22k hp condition glass cannon needs 10 sec to kill a thief , while the thief needs 2 sec to kill the engineer , everything is balanced in ur eyes ?

Plz dont tell me that the thief will be kited , cause dancing blade + shortbow as the other weapon choise , doesnt work :P
We dont whine about less skilled Thiefs , but the few that shown us the true horor with the Backstab spec :P

Engineer is honestly one of the hardest class in the game for a thief to kill.

2500 toughness, flamethrower (constant fire, ignoring stealth.), 33% protection forever with the right runes/builds, heals that cure conditions, 2 healing abilities?

I can only hit them for 5k whilst I hit everyone else for 10k.

Turrets that SNARE/ROOT us so we can’t move while we are constantly being burned with low HP…

I never lost to a thief once as an engineer in SPVP, I simply geared for survivability and condition damage and used a flamer, spamming flames around until I hit the target, then used my turrets to track where the thief is (did you know the turrets moved to the thief, even in stealth?)

Wait.. Glass Cannon..Engineer?… Your playing the wrong class.

Yes i have too the 33% protection when i get cc-ed
Still i died in 1.25 sec :P

Edit: Not all Thiefs are skilled :P
Only few could show me the <<pain>> :P

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Yes i have too the 33% protection when i get cc-ed
Still i died in 1.25 sec :P

Yeah… you said “glass cannon engineer”, which means you need better stats, engineers are the worst class to spec for glass cannon, Protection and Toughness work together like bread and butter, the toughness stacked onto protection magnifies the damage you absorb.

Try Rabid, Spec for Stims and Vitality and Ignore conditions when your health is below 25%, 20% stim reduction, then go for toughness.

Then go for condition damage for stats, get runes of the earth and then the rune “balthazar” thats an extra 15% flame duration, your ‘1’ skill does 1000 damage alone (fire damage.).

Then you get pistol/pistol, poison/flame/bleed, then switch to flamer and keep burning.

Ignore Power, Focus on Condition Damage/Toughness, Precision is ok.

Enginners have 15k hp baseline :P

If a thief does 1k per sec = he need 15 hits ti kill me
If i stack toughness > i will take 1/3 of the damage
So then the thief will need 20 hits to kill

If i have Vitality gear (22k hp)
The thief does 1 k per hit > he will need 22 hits to kill me

As u can see Vitality and Toughtness gear offers the same protection :P

Edit: I have the balthazar + the trait for the flame :P
I do the 8 sec flame conditon wihile i am stunned to the Thief :P
But he burst me in 2 sec :P

15k HP, means at 3750 HP, Conditions no longer affect you (nolonger affected by poisons -33% Healing.) , your heals do more, your tougher so your defenses mean more, your stacking protection AND regeneration which means you seem harder to kill, the thief will see your health go down thinking your an easy target, then you use F1/6 and heal back up to full and continue burning him, use your turret to immobilize him and then watch him burn.

Having a huge HP Pool over having toughness+protection isn’t a very good choice.

1/3 the damage, plus 33% damage reduction MAGNIFIES the amount of hits you will take, also you do have healing abilities, you can even trait to under 25% health you stun break and get to run away in the toughness tree.

Also.. regeneration on top of that is just … kitten… I would roll an engineer in a heartbeat if they ever made the rabid set craftable.

Agaian i was killed in 1.25 sec
Some thiefs have show me the true horor :P

Looks like you were also fighting a warrior, maybe he shouted you so you take 10% more damage, and then buffed the thieves critical chance by 20%.

It also looks like you were hit by a hammer, with a proper trait you can make attacks do an additional 25% more damage to you when your immobilized by a hammer.

So, just maybe you were debuffed by 35%? Maybe you were not, but because it was not 1v1, I can’t tell.

Gotta say, killthehealersffs has the same image I have been seeing all day. 10k backstab, 5k steal and 6k cloack and dagger. Did you know: When theifs see the cloak and dagger animation they hit steal, making them teleport, deal steal dmg and cloack n dagger dmg in one hit, making backstab real easy.

What fun is it when one class goes around dumping on most of the other classes? They burst, go invis and jump around with their shortbows at portal speeds. They can even go in pairs and jump inside the base on legacy of the forefire to backstab the lord without ever raising the alarms of the gates going down.

I remember when hotfixing imbalance was an actuall thing. According to Anet I believe they are going to let things “sort them selves out for a while”. Hopefully you will have more than theifs, ele, guardian and engineers to balance the game for once you get around to actually making changes.

If any team where to exploit the current “balance”, they could make gems by simply midigating the skill need a balanced team would need to pull the same.

I was fighting the warrior and force him to leave ( i had to stay in the circle that why i was hit by 3 of Hundread Blades) :P
He wasnt nearby at that time

I saw a glimps of the Thief on the left side and try to cast Toolkit > Shield wall (didnt have energy to dodge) :P
(traited , casting a kit generate an extra attack ( , that why u see the 75 damage bleed)
But it was too late :P

TehPenGu.6127:

Gotta say, killthehealersffs has the same image I have been seeing all day. 10k backstab, 5k steal and 6k cloack and dagger..

I am promoting this guys :P
Dont u know ? :P
Trying to make him a star !

Ppl want some facts and i try to show the with this pic( taken after the assasin nerf ):P

Here’s a thought, make everyone else stronger. Better stuns, stealth breakers, whatever. Constantly nerfing every class that is hard to beat just goes down the same beaten path of every other MMO.

Sliding the scale down for some players causes more to quit, scaling others up keeps more entertained with new damage, abilities, etc.

Thief vs Warrior, Thief Backstabs, Hammer laughs and instantly kills him.

Scorpio Shirica.1286:

Here’s a thought, make everyone else stronger.

So you let every class kill each other in 2 seconds or make every class a tank that can only be killed by a thief.

If they keep the thief and mesmer classes at their current state, it’s really not a big deal because I really like the game and:

1. I don’t have to pay anything to play
2. I can choose to play those classes within a matter of minutes

I just think that people should be allowed to play a class of their choice and still be able to complete with equally skilled opponents without having to master the thief class and game mechanics first. Anything else is simply going to drive people away.

You are all pretty silly ya know that?

I just spent a PAINFULLY bad couple of games in SPVP there, I’m on my 0/0/20/30/20 thief (annoying but not the big bad build of whinge) and every single match I come across the same bunkerguardian and guess what. I cannot kill them, heck I can barely stand toe to to with them. They hardcounter me horribly (ok so lets assume that’s intended in a ways) and their teammates are usually close by, now my team wasn’t much better help mind you but it’s catch 22 when it takes nearly a full team to kill the “kitten” and even then takes too long to commit the time.

So given this could be a regular thing, what am I supposed to do as a thief player?
go to the guardian forum section and whinge? complain that I lack damage output when I’ve nothing invested into power traits or precision? Or simply build for a backstab hide n seek build and hope that I can somehow outplay them and burst through their defenses.

but nooooooo, thieves combo downing people are a problem in a CAPTURE THE POINT style game right? because your build is the ONLY thing in the world they hard counter and if they down you in a group fight it’s an insta-loss fight right????

right?? -_-

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t LIKE backstab, I don’t LIKE glascannon pain in the kitten builds, so by all means nerf the backstab combo build or 100b warriors, I couldn’t give less of a toss as a player, but at least make the rest of our builds and kits make more SENSE.

5% bonus damage on shortbow attacks!!! YAY!!!! or no… “kitten bad”

here’s a tip for A-nets teams, percentile increases, are only as good as the base damages and how many you can stack for burst. shortbow has bugger all burst aside from spamming 2 up close and personal simply due to abysmal missile speed and buggy detonations. So you may as well delete that trait right there as it’s a no brainer

and what’s with the nerfing of our steal abilities? oh so mug is op right? ok lets go with that… then why are the sometimes MISSED stolen skills constantly watered down? first we have to trait trickery for decent initiative bases and then we’re discouraged from traiting 30 pts in it because it’s not worth it?

“using a heal skill gives you 4 initiative” oh yay my full ranged thief is weeping with joy as I spam yet more buggy fail explosive shots

TL;DR: thieves are NOT the only problem in spvp, spvp by itself is NOT ready for paid release or whatever they’re planning and if you want backstab thieves to take a back-seat then by all means hit bunkers AND buff our other potential builds to be more effective and take a good look at how our traits are HORRIBLE synergy wise.

So hellkaiser; you can kill everything except bunkers? I got some news for you: No one can 1on1 a bunker. That is sorta their purpose.

At least you can melt the faces of everyone not playing bunker.

Your argument just makes you sound spoiled. You wanna be able to 1on1 every single class and build with your one godtier build? GW1 has some lessons to teach you if you care to learn them.

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuL3-DlQPxg

Thief vs Warrior, Thief Backstabs, Hammer laughs and instantly kills him.

Rly? U found one thief that isn’t killing everyone, probably new or just a casual to the game and this is your argument?
Watch this film again, closely this time. Especially 1:37 – thief isnt moving, not becaus of stun or immobilize. My guess is: he is turning camera to make a kinki move: shadow step behind warrior, and then what? He stay still, i bet he is turning his camera back with A&D buttons to see whats warrior doing.

And about your previous comment about yt vid again – you remeber this:
http://youtu.be/TQFw4tzyajo
BREEZE…. This breeze is appering in 0:11 – from the left side of the screen, his name is Uwaaah (or something like this) and guess what – he is a thief
You can clearly see how blue thief mealts down and in how many moves (my guess: steal, hearseaker & autoattack, anybody have other idea?), caus it can be clearly seen on his health bar.
If u want to make an argument – make it count, dont throw trash in to the forum

Daecollo.9578:

Fix yourselves before you attempt to fix another persons class

It’s not just another persons class or your class or my class, thief is everyone’s class as are all the other classes. It takes 10 minutes max to get a new character out of starter area and start pvp:ing. This thread (and many others) are about pvp balance, and therefore about having fun in pvp. Not about nerfing a class that is “unique” to just some players.

Current backstab builds are too much too quick. Front loaded instant burst that thieves can do is stupid.

Things would certainly be much better if they fixed rendering issues and made it so mug can’t be cast be used with c/d. Make it reset a gcd or something at the very least. Revealed duration being extended would help as well.

Like a poster above said fix yourselves before attempting to fix another persons class he was right on the money , after so many thief nerfs people still have the nerve to cry for more nerfs ? Why is no one talking about the mesmer who is broken 1v1 since the game realeased. I understand more then half of the community has a casual player base so most of the people dont really understand how to counter some mechanics even if you show them a full step by step tutorial but this is getting boring honestly. People crying about 5 man team thieves being op or heartseeker spam destroys everything when it got nerfed to hell. People who cry for these nerfs really need to play a thief competitively and stop posting on the forums alltogether because they have no clue about the thief.

Thieves are manageable in organized tpvp, but they’re the plague of casual PvP in wvw and spvp. A lot of people are really turned off by this.

nerva.7940:

Thieves are manageable in organized tpvp, but they’re the plague of casual PvP in wvw and spvp. A lot of people are really turned off by this.

I really dont understand how thieves can be a problem in wvw when your running with other 15-20-30 dudes behind u ? Or what is the purpose of ppl yelling on map chat “Hey where is the zerg so I can join you guys” ? And the only issue with hotjoin is that they will probably limit the classes that can join and fix this issue once and for all ( oh wait no nerf thieves!? ). Hotjoin is not a serious pvp mode and will never be as long as they do not limit the ammount of classes that can join you will only see 10 mesmers , 10 thieves or like one month ago trend 10 warriors.

my friend who plays a skilled thief engages zergs at will, picking off 2-3 people before disappearing. he basically never dies. again, it’s not about “with proper communication, skill and timing, thieves are no problem.” it’s a zerg! why should anyone engage large groups without any fear?

TehPenGu.6127:

So hellkaiser; you can kill everything except bunkers? I got some news for you: No one can 1on1 a bunker. That is sorta their purpose.

At least you can melt the faces of everyone not playing bunker.

Your argument just makes you sound spoiled. You wanna be able to 1on1 every single class and build with your one godtier build? GW1 has some lessons to teach you if you care to learn them.

Now that’s just assumption right there, I claim I CANNOT as in NOT A CHANCE of killing a bunker guardian as a condition thief, and you assume I can “melt the face off everything else”

I don’t, I simply perform reasonably well if I play to all my strengths and manage my cooldowns your asinine response sounds to me like extreme bias.

The fact bunkers aren’t “meant to be beaten 1v1” is not the sign of a balanced game, it’s the sign of a poxy exploitative build type which can be an entire meta-shaper.
If you can’t clear that guy off the point 1v1 then what on earth are you SUPPOSED to do, it’s not like there’s a way of ensuring you have the right skills to remove them from the area and zerging them doesn’t work, and in fact works in their favor due to how long it takes to kill them.

Believe me when I say this, backstab thieves ARE bad, I don’t like them either. But they are NOT the most exploitative type of build in SPVP, not by a LONG shot.

nerva.7940:

my friend who plays a skilled thief engages zergs at will, picking off 2-3 people before disappearing. he basically never dies. again, it’s not about “with proper communication, skill and timing, thieves are no problem.” it’s a zerg! why should anyone engage large groups without any fear?

Why not ? It`s all about the persons “skill” after all , if he manages to sneak in 2 kills in a zerg and that means what ? That those 2 kills will stop them from destroying the gate/wall/keep ? I hate to break it to you but thiefs have no permanent stealth without talking about shadowrefuge ,you can stealth for a maximum of 3 seconds if traited hide in shadows selfheal has a 30 second cooldown. Try making better points or roll a thief and try to apply your friends tactic and see how it turns out in da big zerg.