Guild Wars 2

Volrath.1473:

With my warrior i can nuke down ppl in 2 seconds and i hear very little compleint about it and on my Engi, rarely a thief can kill me by itself you must be doing something wrong.

As for eles, the glass canon ones are wet paper, not just for thieves, warriors, rangers and mesmers for example can easily destroy them.

I guess you need to spec and gear a little smarter, cuz your obviously doing it wrong.

Full toughness exotics:armor, weapons and Trinkets on my engy with 24k health from the trait line. I get killed in under 1 second. If the thief fails the initial approach, they run away and return when the abilities are on cool down. Similar thing with my ele: full toughness cleric exotics and it still happens. The traits are full arcana and water.

Can any other class in the game get in, kill in under 1second and if it fails it can get away and return to do so? No..

I keep seeing the same useless argument from thieves: L2P said in different ways. Reminds me of someone drowning trying to hold on to anything.

Tell you what..how about once the thieves are balanced you try and do the same thing or try it with a different class. You can’t..guess you need to spec and gear a little smarter when that happens, cuz your obviously going to be doing it wrong. See what I did there?

XII.9401:

Volrath.1473:

With my warrior i can nuke down ppl in 2 seconds and i hear very little compleint about it and on my Engi, rarely a thief can kill me by itself you must be doing something wrong.

As for eles, the glass canon ones are wet paper, not just for thieves, warriors, rangers and mesmers for example can easily destroy them.

I guess you need to spec and gear a little smarter, cuz your obviously doing it wrong.

Full toughness exotics:armor, weapons and Trinkets on my engy with 24k health from the trait line. I get killed in under 1 second. If the thief fails the initial approach, they run away and return when the abilities are on cool down. Similar thing with my ele: full toughness cleric exotics and it still happens. The traits are full arcana and water.

Can any other class in the game get in, kill in under 1second and if it fails it can get away and return to do so? No..

I keep seeing the same useless argument from thieves: L2P said in different ways. Reminds me of someone drowning trying to hold on to anything.

Tell you what..how about once the thieves are balanced you try and do the same thing or try it with a different class. You can’t..guess you need to spec and gear a little smarter when that happens, cuz your obviously going to be doing it wrong. See what I did there?

Try to bring atleast some decent arguments to the table, since when thief can get in and kill in one second ? Did you hear about 100b warriors popping elite and quickness ? Did you hear about shatter mesmers doing 12k in a shatter ? This thread is a “fun” read try to learn your class and maybe counter them ? Its people like you who dont know anything about a certain class just gets stomped once , twice, 10 times by a class when your using the wrong stats , wrong gear , wrong traits and come to the forums to bash a class. Try bringing some arguments , theorycraft but not empty words please.

Its weird that GW2 thieves are going through the same exact kitten WoW Vanilla rogues went through. I have no idea how the geniuses at Anet did not study what went on with WoW.

The rogues in Vanilla WoW were similarly OP with 1 or 2 builds while the rest of the builds were not exactly viable. Sure there was a difference mechanics wise that they used stunlock to keep the target perma stunned instead of unloading 3 abilities in 1 or 2 seconds. But the end result was the target could not do much while being assaulted.

The true mark of OPness was that in WoW you were a good rogue if you killed a target without using any of your cool downs aka utilities. But the rogues there still thought everything was hunky dory. So its no surprise thieves here think they are fine too. Does anyone really expect people to agree that their class is too OP and needs a nerfbat?

If thiefs were not OP, this post would never be created.
Also, if someone can enter a match without at least 50% thiefs, i’ll give you a free candy.

Get real! Nerf thiefs damage!

I want to play against other classes too!

“Thiefs… How to ruin the fun of a good pvp.”

Sure after they nerf mesmers , warriors , bunker build guardians.

This is thief hate is devolving into straight up prejudice.
Soon it won’t matter what they do to thieves, they could nerf them to unusability and people would still rail on them.

Dual.8953:

This is thief hate is devolving into straight up prejudice.
Soon it won’t matter what they do to thieves, they could nerf them to unusability and people would still rail on them.

This is what happens when you add a stealth/burst class to a MMO. It ALWAYS happens and is a TERRIBLE design decision. ArenaNet should have never given the thief class stealth, instead the class should have been based around short range teleports and evasion. Stealth is and always will be unbalance-able. It gives a huge boost to survivability, allows first strike capability, and catches the enemy unaware.

@Distaste unfortunately this is not a “stealth” class it has 2 possible stealth skills if opted for traited for maximum of 3 seconds of stealth. I think a “stealth” class has a little more then 3 second stealth-invisibility option. It is a roamer class with high mobillity but not what most of these rabid casuals call it.
@Dual yes indeed no matter how you explain it or just simple put it in black and white even if its truth or not.

offence.4726:

Try making better points or roll a thief and try to apply your friends tactic and see how it turns out in da big zerg.

first of all, that doesnt require skill, and he admits it. he’s been playing his thief for just under a week. secondly, i have no interest in rolling a thief. theyre not a problem for me, i dispatch even good ones on my guardian and ranger. the problem is the overall game balance. too much effect for little to no effort. so why roll anything else? and thats exactly what we’re seeing, outside of tpvp and pve.

the thief is currently the greatest balance issue. i agree that sword/pistol/staff/shatter mesmers need to be nerfed second. and i agree that bunker guardians are ridiculous. but warriors are just fine. their use in high level tpvp is limited, and theyre just fine in all other areas.

Distaste.4801:

Dual.8953:

This is thief hate is devolving into straight up prejudice.
Soon it won’t matter what they do to thieves, they could nerf them to unusability and people would still rail on them.

This is what happens when you add a stealth/burst class to a MMO. It ALWAYS happens and is a TERRIBLE design decision. ArenaNet should have never given the thief class stealth, instead the class should have been based around short range teleports and evasion. Stealth is and always will be unbalance-able. It gives a huge boost to survivability, allows first strike capability, and catches the enemy unaware.

thing is, there isnt supposed to be a “burst profession”, according to ANet’s manifesto. every prof is supposed to be able to do everything equally.

the resolution is oh so simple: nerf backstab damage by 20-30% and increase HS initiative. keep everything else the same, and the thief would be perfect.

nerva.7940:

the resolution is oh so simple: nerf backstab damage by 20-30% and increase HS initiative. keep everything else the same, and the thief would be perfect.

then raise thief hp tp 18.5k with berserk berserk and armor accordingly…then rework every skill of d/* because then thief wont use dagger main anymore.

@nerva no` kitten ? After the heartseeker nerf , the pistol whip nerf , the “stealth” shadow refuge nerf your solution is to nerf backstab and increase initiative ? Thief is fine as IS and Im gonna stop reading this thread because it derailed, has no constructive feedback just clueless moanings. Anet is smarter then to not read this , carry on.

offence.4726:

has no constructive feedback just clueless moanings. Anet is smarter then to not read this , carry on.

And the print screen pics all these ppl posted , is in their imagination ? :P

Dual.8953:

This is thief hate is devolving into straight up prejudice.
Soon it won’t matter what they do to thieves, they could nerf them to unusability and people would still rail on them.

name me another game where a class was hated and still hated after it was brought off of it being top tier?
you act like this game is an isolated incident and there have never been games or forums before.

daoc… when savages a class who had a 4% chance to kill you OUTRIGHT came in people hated them. anyone who played a savage was just hated. they changed the mechanic and then they had to nerf a few more things . nobody hated them after the nerfs and things just returned to normal.

WoW do people still hateshadow priest? cuz i remember in betta i could play a priest and kill anyone. they nerfed it and the hate subsided.

Rift – anyone still hate the beastmaster warrior? back when they were broken and could givethemselves 80% more dps than the next closest class they were hated. people would laugh at them now.

all you gotta do is nerf the class everyone plays and buff the class nobody plays.

if thief wasnt good then you wouldnt see so many
if dagger dagger wasnt so powerful you wouldnt see 90% of thieves using it. its not like i see tons of sword pistol thieves, no they are all cookie cuter hs spamming, mug spec burn you down type thieves.

oh that is except for the new short bow caltrop thieves which are just as op

ya, nerf this class PLEASE

Daecollo.9578:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuL3-DlQPxg

Thief vs Warrior, Thief Backstabs, Hammer laughs and instantly kills him.

This fight starts at 1:28. The thief is down at 1:44. The thief is stomped at 1:50.

That’s almost 20 seconds of fighting. 20 seconds is not “instantly.”

tank build wont be able to down thief fast, so if thief get killed by tank its his own fault.

Also good thief can win vs tank… problem is thief is so ez to play that 98% of thieves players never develloped proper gameplay and then come here to cry about not being able to insta kill a tank.

They just fail very hard. Also if players spec tank its because they dont want to get insta kill by thief. I hope Anet wont listen to those failtards, cause if they do it means that we will see only thieves and mesmers in pvp, therefore mean the game gonna be dead cause who want to play a game with only 2 viable pvp class.

Starting to see thieves with similar names trolling ppl in SPVP with backstabs builds…

Just saying.

I’m not sure why people defend on-demand instagib potential. Especially as easy as it is to pull off. People say l2p because thieves will just drop but good thieves (who have l2p) will not get dropped easily. They have a huge advantage when it comes to burst and initiative (picking fights). At the very least steal should have a gcd attached.

Instagib is bad.

But it’s also worth keeping in mind that thief/assassin archetypes are often decried as overpowered in MMO’s, because of stealth and their burst. There are definitely a number of players out there who would rather complain on the forums over learning how to fight/build against them.

elithrar.7143:

Instagib is bad.

But it’s also worth keeping in mind that thief/assassin archetypes are often decried as overpowered in MMO’s, because of stealth and their burst. There are definitely a number of players out there who would rather complain on the forums over learning how to fight/build against them.

+1 for this reply , problem is thiefs are not even a stealth class sure they have 2 stealth escapabilities but which are on 3 seconds if traited not counting shadow refuge with pretty much is a imovable stealth option aoe. Some fellow above said how can we defend insta gib thief ? Same goes for insta gib war , or insta gib shatter mesmer they need to be looked in same as thief was and nerfed like thief was. Try this reroll a thief in competitive tpvp and see how insta-gib op you can be before posting nonsense on the official forums if you complain about hotjoin then might aswell complain for every fotm class of the week build dont do it.

elithrar: We all want to conquer them, and have backstab remove stealth and most of us will have the oppotunity to do so.

IMO the fact that it’s easily avoidable (which is true only in certain situations) is mostly irrelevant. Yeah you can dodge the steal, yeah you can stun break the venom, yeah you can pop insta shields or blinds while stunned, whatever. It doesn’t matter.

The real problem is the general existence of near-instantaneous TTK. The potential just shouldn’t exist.

I mean it kinda reminds me of AoC. Yeah you could dance around with a bear shaman for a while but the moment he actually landed crush armor on you – gg, literally insta-death. That sort of thing ruined the game, among others.

@Noctred this is nearly not the case , when you have mechanics like dodge ( specifically to avoid these mechanics ) and alot of stunbreakers aswell as you can trait any class basically on a selfheal , bunker glasscannon and basically you can counter any spec by switching in between these.

offence.4726:

@Noctred this is nearly not the case , when you have mechanics like dodge ( specifically to avoid these mechanics ) and alot of stunbreakers aswell as you can trait any class basically on a selfheal , bunker and so on.

Did you even read my post?

I mentioned dodges, I mentioned stun-breakers, I mentioned mitigating insta-casts while stunned.

My point is that it doesn’t matter. The fact that it’s avoidable just does not matter. A thief coming in late to a team fight will almost guarantee an instagib on somebody so long as he knows how to play and has proper positioning – and no, he won’t die immediately afterwards. I’m not really even basing this on hot-joins either. Go watch a decent thief play paids – Jumper’s stream would probably do @ http://twitch.tv/loljumper.

TTK that low is just unhealthy for games.

The only problem with this class is the same problem as for Mesmers.

Stealth.

I ranted on guru for ages about how stealth usually breaks all PvP and i stand with it.

You can give all the damage back to Thieves, you can let them have all the dodging and evading abilities, but as soon as you add stealth to the mix the class will be almost impossible to balance.

Same for Mesmers.

I pity the players that love thieves really, the class is fun but it will always be either overpowered or underpowered due to stealth.

Stealth really is a tough thing to balance. Its definitely one of those things that should come with a tradeoff.

Something needs to be done about thieves already. Anet stop keeping us in the dark >.<

Prince.3682:

Stealth really is a tough thing to balance. Its definitely one of those things that should come with a tradeoff.

Like being able to be damaged while stealthed and the fact stealth is not permanent. Thieves can hide in stealth for a few seconds at a time unless they use shadow refuge (of which you can still damage a thief in there) Here’s a hint, if you see the circle on the ground, run away from it!

Noctred.6732:

offence.4726:

@Noctred this is nearly not the case , when you have mechanics like dodge ( specifically to avoid these mechanics ) and alot of stunbreakers aswell as you can trait any class basically on a selfheal , bunker and so on.

Did you even read my post?

I mentioned dodges, I mentioned stun-breakers, I mentioned mitigating insta-casts while stunned.

My point is that it doesn’t matter. The fact that it’s avoidable just does not matter. A thief coming in late to a team fight will almost guarantee an instagib on somebody so long as he knows how to play and has proper positioning – and no, he won’t die immediately afterwards. I’m not really even basing this on hot-joins either. Go watch a decent thief play paids – Jumper’s stream would probably do @ http://twitch.tv/loljumper.

TTK that low is just unhealthy for games.

I dont need to I main a thief in tpvp , got him to rank 35 back when people were in their mid 20`s , this is what I do tpvp all day long ( did actually ) things got boring , same 3 maps , same game modes, lackluster paid tpvp rewards – whatever. Playing a thief competitively is the hardest thing to pull , and no you are not guaranteed anything in general if you make 1-2 mistakes you get stomped. This whole discussion started due to the unbalance from hotjoins and people playing x5 of the same fotm cheese build of the week. And yes I am defending the thief class to death because to pull a decent thief off is harder then any “skilled” warrior or mesmer out there. And people who constantly cry about thiefs stealth and such have no clue about the current class and mechanics and its almost always an L2P issue.

offence.4726:

And yes I am defending the thief class to death because to pull a decent thief off is harder then any “skilled” warrior or mesmer out there.

I actually agree with this – I think that glass backstab thief is definitely one of the hardest classes/builds to play against serious competition. However, that’s also kinda irrelevant.

My basic point is very simple – excessively low TTK from a single source shouldn’t be in games like this (excessively low meaning near instant). It doesn’t matter what class it comes from, how difficult that class is to play, or how avoidable the damage is.

Just few minuts before i saw one tief who prevented zerg of 30+ people from capture supply camp in www for about 30 minuts. He was inisible all time, hitting random people around and disappearing again. Due to server issues or something nobody has ever time to target him. So we are just aoe whole supply camp with no success, while he was jumping around with pistols and two hitting low levels to dawned state. After about 20 minuts our commander decided just to leave this camp and we moved to another place leaving that tief alone…

Heartseeker not having a cooldown must be one the worst decisions i have ever seen in my 15+ years gaming history.

My thief is built not to burst but to stealth, remove boons, and grant boons, as well as providing interrupts.

I can solo most ppl i have come across except for 1 specific trap hunter, as well as another specific mesmer.

offence.4726:

elithrar.7143:

Instagib is bad.

But it’s also worth keeping in mind that thief/assassin archetypes are often decried as overpowered in MMO’s, because of stealth and their burst. There are definitely a number of players out there who would rather complain on the forums over learning how to fight/build against them.

+1 for this reply , problem is thiefs are not even a stealth class sure they have 2 stealth escapabilities but which are on 3 seconds if traited not counting shadow refuge with pretty much is a imovable stealth option aoe. Some fellow above said how can we defend insta gib thief ? Same goes for insta gib war , or insta gib shatter mesmer they need to be looked in same as thief was and nerfed like thief was. Try this reroll a thief in competitive tpvp and see how insta-gib op you can be before posting nonsense on the official forums if you complain about hotjoin then might aswell complain for every fotm class of the week build dont do it.

I admire your defense, offence, but your posts are just as closed minded as the ppl you claim are using baseless post about thieves being a bit overpowered.

I’m not trying to have a back and forth, but thief is a stealthy profession and it does not get defined by the number of stealth activation it has, but rather just by the way the profession is designed.

Unless you have a good example of what defines a “stealth” class.

But there does need to be work done on the thief’s abilities. Yeah while i can fight pretty well against one, it’s not exactly balanced when the thief can take off unnoticed in the middle of a fight when it realizes that things are looking bleak.

If i were to take off with my character, then the thief has an incredible gap closer that will not allow me to flee so quickly.

Yes thieves do a lot of damage and that’s ok with me, I dont care if I am left with 10% of my HP after just one hit, but please, please, let us target them. in other MMOs thieves/shadowreavers (whatever you want to call them) do a lot of damage also, but they lose their stealth after attacking.
oh!!
and another thing.
Fix the frozen loading screen on sPvP, after being killed. >.<

AmphibianX.7042:

Yes thieves do a lot of damage and that’s ok with me, I dont care if I am left with 10% of my HP after just one hit, but please, please, let us target them. in other MMOs thieves/shadowreavers (whatever you want to call them) do a lot of damage also, but they lose their stealth after attacking.
oh!!
and another thing.
Fix the frozen loading screen on sPvP, after being killed. >.<

nice idea, but if were implemented, then you’ll have a lot of thief players demanding a refund from Arenanet.

I couldn’t imagine the outcry it would have.

You need to read Sirlin “Play to win” , there arent cheap, easy, unfun skills/moves. The game is made diffrent from real life and the goal is to win. If you are restricting yourself from certain playstyles of your class cuz you dont like it, cuz its cheap, cuz its unfun, you are setting up limits for yourself at the game. Please understand goal of game is to win. Seems like you end up whining about other classes(thief in this case) since you arent willing to use winning tactic of your class, you want to use tactic you set limit yourself to. Playing to win can be much more fun then playing to have fun, in many cases.

Stin.9781:

You need to read Sirlin “Play to win” , there arent cheap, easy, unfun skills/moves. The game is made diffrent from real life and the goal is to win. If you are restricting yourself from certain playstyles of your class cuz you dont like it, cuz its cheap, cuz its unfun, you are setting up limits for yourself at the game. Please understand goal of game is to win. Seems like you end up whining about other classes(thief in this case) since you arent willing to use winning tactic of your class, you want to use tactic you set limit yourself to. Playing to win can be much more fun then playing to have fun, in many cases.

And you don’t see any problem with this do you?

Imagine applying that logic to other things.

“Oh this business plan makes us the most profit…sure its destroying the environment, ruining our brand image, depressing our employees and has no long term viability and will probably bankrupt us when it does belly up but …”

Oh wait, that is how it is.

People like you are ruining this world.

Just tried to 4v1 a thief on a cap point. He kept doing massive damage go invisible, come out of invisibility do more damage and stop us from capping, go invisible again/ He downed 2 of us before we killed him and delayed us from capping the point until his team mates got there. How is this fair? When he was spinning in the air no one could hit him.

Lorelei.3918:

Stin.9781:

You need to read Sirlin “Play to win” , there arent cheap, easy, unfun skills/moves. The game is made diffrent from real life and the goal is to win. If you are restricting yourself from certain playstyles of your class cuz you dont like it, cuz its cheap, cuz its unfun, you are setting up limits for yourself at the game. Please understand goal of game is to win. Seems like you end up whining about other classes(thief in this case) since you arent willing to use winning tactic of your class, you want to use tactic you set limit yourself to. Playing to win can be much more fun then playing to have fun, in many cases.

And you don’t see any problem with this do you?

Imagine applying that logic to other things.

“Oh this business plan makes us the most profit…sure its destroying the environment, ruining our brand image, depressing our employees and has no long term viability and will probably bankrupt us when it does belly up but …”

Oh wait, that is how it is.

People like you are ruining this world.

What i meant is:
Whiner: Anet said all classes can do all roles so why cant i play glass cannon
Truth: All classes can do all roles however there are always better ones, at certain role, if you limit yourself to lets say elementalist glass cannon cuz you like it, it doesnt mean its gonna have a stand off. However playing elementalist bunker makes you pretty much invincible to thiefs if you are good. You dont like the playstyle ? You just set yourself a limit why you cant win over thief. Every class has builds that kill thief, or makes him run away 1on1, if thief is hit and run type. Since Tpvp is point capture you just won the game, bunkering/surviving better then thief. Sure he didnt die but yet its a loss.

Peter.8047:

Just tried to 4v1 a thief on a cap point. He kept doing massive damage go invisible, come out of invisibility do more damage and stop us from capping, go invisible again/ He downed 2 of us before we killed him and delayed us from capping the point until his team mates got there. How is this fair? When he was spinning in the air no one could hit him.

Things like that make me understand what kind of people come to qq about thieves in the forum. Did you try rooting him in any way? Or did you just stand in the caltrop aoe and stack bleeds on yourself?

And now a short story on this topic “qq about thieves”:

Today I have logged on my thief to go for spvp, went to server 3×3 and one guardian kept talking how thieves are OP, because they can kill him in 2 skills. So I have tried to explain to him that its not 2 skills, it is actually basilisk venom+steal+cloak and dagger+going behind him+backstab+heartseeker to finish him. Then he complained to me that he cannot see a thief incoming because he steals in stealth – I have explained that if he uses steal in stealth he cannot backstab instantly since you get an immunity to stealth, so no stealth = no backstab. Then he said that backstab dmg is too big it should be maximum 4k.

After that argument of thieves being OP coz they do EXTREAM dmg I got flanked by the same guardian and killed from his whirling attack (8k dmg) hammer stun and 1 or 2 simple attacks. So now I was curious why he thinks that having a teleport+multiple blocks+a summoned stun hammer+blindness+root and hitting 8k dmg by 1 skill on a target is OK, but when a thief does the same amount of dmg without these mentioned skills it is OP. His answer was that it was my fault since I have a build purely for burst and not for survival. He was right – I was pure class cannon without any kind of dmg reduction. So in his mind (and many others as I have read): each class should be able to burst thief in few hits while having more survivability, but a thief with less defenses should not be able to do that…

I hope ANet will not listen to this constant crying and not just blatantly nerf thief to the ground,

Edited by moderator: removed the offensive language

And 1 more thing to post above too.

Thief cannot bunker at all, thanks to stealth mechanic. We cannot bunker at points at ALL. So make thief in par with other classes in damage, yet now they are same in damage, yet cannot bunker, my class can, my class is superior in this case.

As long as you cannot cap in stealth in Tpvp you cannot make thiefs damage and burst on par with any other class, no matter how its built.

Stin how many hits , aegis can block ?
How many hits , Thiefs evasive attacks can block ?
Can evasive attacks block mutliply attacks , from multiply ppl ?
Can Thiefs wear the same <<bunker amulets>> like the rest of the bunkers ?

Thiefs evasive attacks or Guardians blocks/aegis ocure more time ?

Atleast let the thread die , instead of listing to foolishness

Edit: I have fought only 1 Thief , 3 weeks ago , that he used this tactic
He stacks 16 bleeds withe the d/d 3rd attack
I didnt die , but neither he did for 45-55 sec , before his friend show up and killed me

Like the ppl proclaimed long time ago that Elementalist-Engineers where UP and useless , but some ppl change that

Bleeding thiefs can bunker easy… broken healing signet, caltrop is on low cd and do way too much bleed stack on way too big ground and i didn’t mentioned the endless dodge with clatrops and blossom evasions…

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Stin how many hits , aegis can block ?
How many hits , Thiefs evasive attacks can block ?
Can evasive attacks block mutliply attacks , from multiply ppl ?
Can Thiefs wear the same <<bunker amulets>> like the rest of the bunkers ?

Thiefs evasive attacks or Guardians blocks/aegis ocure more time ?

Atleast let the thread die , instead of listing to foolishness

Edit: I have fought only 1 Thief , 3 weeks ago , that he used this tactic
He stacks 16 bleeds withe the d/d 3rd attack
I didnt die , but neither he did for 45-55 sec , before his friend show up and killed me

Like the ppl proclaimed long time ago that Elementalist-Engineers where UP and useless , but some ppl change that

First of all d/d bleed build, isnt that good of a bunker, i play a lot of classes myself(thief/guardian/ranger/mesmer) and only profesion i could not kill thief with was my guardian( not like expect to kill anyone smart at all with bunker spec).

D/D unicorn thief has 2x dagger sets no ranged weapeon at all, sit on ledge and shoot at him,if he goes of point you won, if he stealths you won as he is losing point now. That build is insanely good at stealing point, not at keeping one, which is what i imagine bunker doing. It can nulify point easy, but gets his own point nulified just as easy. That is not what a bunker should let to be done.

Trevos.6473:

Bleeding thiefs can bunker easy… broken healing signet, caltrop is on low cd and do way too much bleed stack on way too big ground and i didn’t mentioned the endless dodge with clatrops and blossom evasions…

Those kind of thiefs have 2x d/d sets which leaves them with 0 ranged capability now that dancing dagger is nerfed. Maybe try to range him, withouth him shooting back ?

Engineers with their knockbacks and Guardians can outdps the ranged attackers ? :P
Or they both outlast the oponents till reforcements come ? :P

Edit: i admit the Thief that i have fought , he didnt have a ranged weapon :P
But i belive with the shortbow , he can maintin a little dp , and evade attack (the 3rd that leap back while evading)

Killthehealersffs.8940:

Engineers with their knockbacks and Guardians can outdps the ranged attackers ? :P
Or they both outlast the oponents till reforcements come ? :P

Edit: i admit the Thief that i have fought , he didnt have a ranged weapon :P
But i belive with the shortbow , he can maintin a little dp , and evade attack (the 3rd that leap back while evading)

Yes but its far worse then your mentioned counterparts. with full conditin build u have 1900-2200 attack power in shamans amulet, Gl trying to maintain any ranged damage.
Thief uses regain 50% endurance and 3 innitiative on weapeon swap, if he swaps d/d to sb he can have damage however it loses basicaly all condition damage(sb has poison and few bleeds but not even close).

It can bunker but its worse then:
1.Guardian
2.Engineer
3.Ele.
4.Mesmer.

Not worth going a bunker, while you are so outperformed by others.

Stin.9781:

It can bunker but its worse then:
1.Guardian
2.Engineer
3.Ele.
4.Mesmer.

I hope that is a random order you just placed there, otherwise it just shows that you are not in touch with the reality. Elementalist (only) on 3rd position as a bunker? lol

Floryn.6307:

Stin.9781:

It can bunker but its worse then:
1.Guardian
2.Engineer
3.Ele.
4.Mesmer.

I hope that is a random order you just placed there, otherwise it just shows that you are not in touch with the reality. Elementalist (only) on 3rd position as a bunker? lol

Its order of which annoy me the most its class viewpoint relative only, not my tottal idea of best bunkers.