Guild Wars 2

Do you think you are entitled to Legendary or something? Not sure what Anet’s percentile for the highest tier is in matchmaking, but in most other competitive PvP scenes the top 1% make it to the highest rank (Legendary in GW2) which means maybe 1 of all you whiners gets to legendary. And that’s how it should be. Legendary should be reserved for ESL players, twitch streamers, and players who really devote themselves to studying the game and actively trying to make themselves a better player. If you’re complaining about pugs vs premades, fighting other legendaries, or classes being OP, you’re not cut out for legendary. Personally I would still like to see even less legendaries in future seasons, which I think will happen after this season because so many of you are finally hitting the wall at ruby and diamond. Say it’s luck all you want but people who are supposed to be in Legendary are having no trouble getting there. And there are fewer and fewer people in Legendary who shouldn’t be there.

P.S. if you’re only queuing ranked for the wings, then stop complaining on the forums about everything. And if you have a 30% win-rate then you need to adjust your play-style.

I’m entitled to matches that are actually fun to play.

I don’t care if I win or lose as long as the match was even and fun – which is almost never the case.

I agree. My life has been better since I accepted the fact that I’m a ruby scrub

I’ve been stuck in T4 sapphire for 2 weeks with the most annoying 50% winrate ever. But you know what? I can look back at the matches i lost and see were things went wrong.

That still doesn’t wash the dirt of losing off your MMR though. For your improvement to see practical results everyone in your MMR bracket (now lower somewhat due to losses) also must improve their skill, which is very unlikely while your opposition gets stronger. The way the ranked algorithm works is low MMR gets put against higher MMR, so if you have lower MMR your chances of getting stronger opposition (five people vs. you and four others, your MMR is the same as theirs but your actual skill may be way higher) the less likely you’ll be able to carry.

Agemnon.4608:

I’ve been stuck in T4 sapphire for 2 weeks with the most annoying 50% winrate ever. But you know what? I can look back at the matches i lost and see were things went wrong.

That still doesn’t wash the dirt of losing off your MMR though. For your improvement to see practical results everyone in your MMR bracket (now lower somewhat due to losses) also must improve their skill, which is very unlikely while your opposition gets stronger. The way the ranked algorithm works is low MMR gets put against higher MMR, so if you have lower MMR your chances of getting stronger opposition (five people vs. you and four others, your MMR is the same as theirs but your actual skill may be way higher) the less likely you’ll be able to carry.

Are you saying my MMR suffers more for losses than it improves for wins? I would think a 50% winrate would keep my MMR in the same place. I’m not buying it.

Also, the matchmaking grabs 10 players with similar MMR and puts the top 5 on one team and the bottom 5 on the other. If your MMR is dropping, you will eventually end up in the top 5 of a lower rated group of 10. So you don’t necessarily have to “carry” to “climb” out of MMR “hell.” But since we are talking about “carrying,” shouldn’t you just be playing to win every match? If you got scrubs, play to win. If you got average team, play to win. If you are a PVP superstar, play to win.

It would be nice if this forum was full of build theory and play strategy, but it’s mostly full of complaining, complaining, complaining. FYI complaining is what losers do

Nighthawk.4687:

And that’s how it should be. Legendary should be reserved for ESL players, twitch streamers, and players who really devote themselves to studying the game and actively trying to make themselves a better player.

:’D
it makes me wonder how many people are still living in this dream. Well at least ANet is succeding at theyr goal it seems.

I got legend in all 3 seasons and i think matchmaking is very badly designed. My personal problem is that whole team stacking algo which guarantees one team to win no matter what. It leads to very boring matches, especially when you are already sitting in 1 hour queues for it. Players in legend do not enjoy current MM either, fyi.

So, what is your point, OP?

Do I think I am entitled to legendary? Hell no, I know I’m nowhere near that good at PvP.

But I do think that I am entitled to fair matches. In unranked the matchmaking system is working “perfectly” in that I have exactly a 50% winrate. But that’s not indicative of good matchmaking, because 80% of the games I play are incredibly lopsided 500 – 200 or worse. Far too many games are 500 – 50, and the matchmaking system has put me on both sides of that. My experience with ranked was even worse. It was matching me with players who were far better than me on the other team, and my team never stood a chance.

Whatever algorithm the matchmaking uses is inherently flawed. In my experience with PvP so far the system matches the players on each team close to each other in terms of MMR, but it doesn’t match the teams up very well with other teams. Why does it continuously stack games so that its 500 – 200 or worse? That is poor matchmaking and that is what upsets people. Its not that they think they are entitled to reach legendary, its that they expect to be put in fair matches, regardless of whether they are on the winning or losing team.

Only started really getting into this season a few days ago, already, personally I find this season better than 1 and 2. I completely understand part of this is luck but on the same note, I do feel I improved a lot in last season whilst grinding my way to Ruby. I too was seemingly ‘stuck’ at the end of Sapphire last season, with a 50/50 win/loss and I was getting nowhere, but I kept on and was boosted with a whopping 12 wins straight. My best win streak this season has been 6 I think.

I would like to show how a pvp-match for me normally looks like:
1) I queue and after ~3 min. the queue pops up (at night it takes longer)
2) I wait 1 min. until the game starts
3) After 3 min. of the match, I realize that it will be an easy win/horrible loss
4) After 8 min. (roughly) my prediction after 3 min. becomes true
5) the game is over and I can queue again!

I counted Celine’s matches (previous post). In 4 (out of 10) the losing team had more than 350 points. In my own history, it is just 1 (out of 10). I dont mind if I cannot reach legendary. I dont mind losing a game. I mind if I queue 3 min. + 1 min. waiting only to get beaten up/have nobody to fight against. Why should I play PvP then? The real problem for me in terms of matchmaking are such blow-out matches.

Season3 seems to have introduced this phenomenon where non-high tier players are chosen at random (means unknown to me,) and they experience huge win streaks, crushing victories, and generally no opposition while they roll an entire division in a sitting.

In my personal experience, highly skilled veteran players seem to generally always be stacked and face very little opposition, but now, I’m noticing even players that have known past struggles in the Leagues get on massive streaks of facing enemies that provide little resistance.

Every player who had struggled in the past and suddenly is on a huge tear, “I love S3!” For the rest of average and what I can only imagine as bottom half of the playerbase, “Whelp, this game has taken a huge crap on me.”

Nobody likes this matchmaker except the people who are suddenly winning a 75% of their matches and feel like they’re being rewarded for getting good’.

The above-average to the highly-skilled veterans are falling asleep in queues, and in many matches – crushing their opponents was more fun when they had to sweat for it.

For every player on a huge win streak, there are an equal amount of lose streaks.

Seriously, bring back evenly matched team MMR aka S1. There were improvements that could have been made to it, which I could detail, but the changes made since S1 are horrendous for the casual and veteran experience.

Chaith.8256:

Season3 seems to have introduced this phenomenon where players are chosen at random (means unknown to me,) and they experience huge win streaks, crushing victories, and generally no opposition while they roll an entire division in a sitting.

In my personal experience, highly skilled veteran players seem to generally be stacked and face very little opposition, but now, I’m noticing even players that have known past struggles in the Leagues get on massive streaks of facing enemies that provide little resistance.

Every player who had struggled in the past and suddenly is on a huge tear, “I love S3!” For the rest of average and what I can only imagine as bottom half of the playerbase, “Whelp, this game has taken a huge crap on me.”

Nobody likes this matchmaker except the people who are suddenly winning a 75% of their matches and feel like they’re being rewarded for getting good’.

The above-average to the highly-skilled veterans are falling asleep in queues, and in many matches – crushing their opponents was more fun when they had to sweat for it.

For every player on a huge win streak, there are an equal amount of lose streaks.

Seriously, bring back evenly matched team MMR aka S1. There were improvements that could have been made to it, which I could detail, but the changes made since S1 are horrendous for the casual and veteran experience.

I get the issues with this season, and I’m not coming at this from the winstreak perspective (I’m at 58% w/l solo queue, 5 pips till leg as of writing). But, remember the complaints in S1? That skilled players have to compete against each other to gain a pip, whereas lower MMR players only have to beat mediocre players to gain a pip. In this way, mediocre players could climb through the leagues to legend only ever facing other mediocre/bad players. Apparently, their MMR never rose drastically because their wins were never against high MMR opponents, or so the argument went.

There’s got to be some middle ground to eliminate the issue described above as well as the S3 issues you’re talking about. For starters they would have to reduce the MMR range within a given team (i.e., 10 9 5 3 2 vs. 7 7 7 7 7 shouldn’t happen like in unranked), and this combined with the S3 pre-season seeding might help but I really don’t have a clue what else could be done.

matchmaking is fine and its simply bad players cant accept they are not deserving to climb, but due to extremely forgiving pip gain mechanics (win streak bonus, come back bonus, no pip loss if leaver on team) they occasionally end up getting diamond by the end of season after some 1000 games so that next season they can complain that they are good but cant climb due to bad matchmaking, heh

Salamander.2504:

I get the issues with this season, and I’m not coming at this from the winstreak perspective (I’m at 58% w/l solo queue, 5 pips till leg as of writing). But, remember the complaints in S1? That skilled players have to compete against each other to gain a pip, whereas lower MMR players only have to beat mediocre players to gain a pip. In this way, mediocre players could climb through the leagues to legend only ever facing other mediocre/bad players. Apparently, their MMR never rose drastically because their wins were never against high MMR opponents, or so the argument went.

There’s got to be some middle ground to eliminate the issue described above as well as the S3 issues you’re talking about. For starters they would have to reduce the MMR range within a given team (i.e., 10 9 5 3 2 vs. 7 7 7 7 7 shouldn’t happen like in unranked), and this combined with the S3 pre-season seeding might help but I really don’t have a clue what else could be done.

Many more things than just the matchmaker were changed from S1. S1 did not require a similar pip range when it matched. Think about the gravity of this change..

The league system should continue to make matches from pip range segments as it does now, I’m not speaking about reverting that, I’m speaking about reverting the matchmaker so available players are as equally distributed amongst both teams instead of stacking one side.

Chaith.8256:

Salamander.2504:

I get the issues with this season, and I’m not coming at this from the winstreak perspective (I’m at 58% w/l solo queue, 5 pips till leg as of writing). But, remember the complaints in S1? That skilled players have to compete against each other to gain a pip, whereas lower MMR players only have to beat mediocre players to gain a pip. In this way, mediocre players could climb through the leagues to legend only ever facing other mediocre/bad players. Apparently, their MMR never rose drastically because their wins were never against high MMR opponents, or so the argument went.

There’s got to be some middle ground to eliminate the issue described above as well as the S3 issues you’re talking about. For starters they would have to reduce the MMR range within a given team (i.e., 10 9 5 3 2 vs. 7 7 7 7 7 shouldn’t happen like in unranked), and this combined with the S3 pre-season seeding might help but I really don’t have a clue what else could be done.

Many more things than just the matchmaker were changed from S1. S1 did not require a similar pip range when it matched. Think about the gravity of this change..

The league system should continue to make matches from pip range segments as it does now, I’m not speaking about reverting that, I’m speaking about reverting the matchmaker so available players are as equally distributed amongst both teams instead of stacking one side.

Oh yeah, I totally forgot about that change about the pip range. Yeah, I’m all for going back to that matchmaking then.

Did you see this topic? https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Best-Suggestion-Ever-For-Ranked-Spvp/first#post6195009

There was a post with an interesting idea to make divisions MMR percentile-based, which could also help mitigate folks’ disgruntlement with “pip-grinding”:

Agemnon.4608:

I think it should go by MMR but keep divisions roughly similar to Elo percentile:

Amber: lowest 32%
Emerald: 33%-64%
Sapphire: 64%-84%
Ruby:85%-98.5%
Diamond- 98.6%-top 501-1,000 players
Legendary: Top 500

Chaith.8256:

I’m speaking about reverting the matchmaker so available players are as equally distributed amongst both teams instead of stacking one side.

The MOST important change that needs to be implemented for S4.

Salamander.2504:

Agemnon.4608:

I think it should go by MMR but keep divisions roughly similar to Elo percentile:

Amber: lowest 32%
Emerald: 33%-64%
Sapphire: 64%-84%
Ruby:85%-98.5%
Diamond- 98.6%-top 501-1,000 players
Legendary: Top 500

We’ve landed on a system where you earn pips per win so that players can farm up to Ruby by design. The achievements and legendary crafting are based around everyone being able to farm Ruby, so the system is in sync with the achievements & such.

Honestly, everything would have to be revamped from the ground up – UI, achievements, legendary backpiece requirements.

Probably will never happen.

What they can easily do is try something we’ve never tried – S1 philosophy of even team MMRs, with the S2 league changes so that you must fight enemies in your pip range.

The changes to the league were great. The change to matchmaking was over-compensation and it royally crapped on everything. It’s always something..

If the design is inherently flawed, nothing you tweak about matchmaking will fix the core problem.

Anet needs to unlink rewards from progression up the ladder, and instead reward players for just participating. That way they can then get rid of the safety barriers so matchmaking can self regulate.

Remove the cross X divisions in season achievements, and change it to more things like “Win X matches on Y map”. Or some other achievement that doesn’t require progression.

Change the way PvP tickets are rewarded so they come from completing achievements or they’re earned by winning each game. So IDK, every 2 games won rewards 1 ticket? Completing the achievement rewards more tickets? Something like that.

Bam. Problem solved. PvErs will still need to play ranked to get the backpiece, but they aren’t forced to progress upwards. They still need to win, but most of the rage from “I’m stick in this division!” should be eliminated because they have no need to move beyond the division they’re supposed to be in.

As long as they win consistently, they will get the rewards.

And then people who actually care about leagues being competitive can still get their badges and titles.

Right now, matchmaking will NEVER be perfect because rewards are locked behind progression. That means every PvE player is out there trying to circumvent matchmaking in order to progress in the leagues. They did this by amber shopping, grinding ridiculous amount of games, anything that lets them move upwards beyond where they’re supposed to be. And safety locks makes it worse so matchmaking can never accurately gauge.

Remove the incentive for them to progress and just simply reward for playing the game /winning. Ideally that means players will settle into one range at a 50/50 win rate and will only move upwards if they improve. And accordingly will drop down if they do poorly.

As someone that has gotten higher in this season than I have in the previous two, I actually find myself wondering after a lot of games how much have I improved (if at all).

I came to this realization the other night when I got thinking of how much I lost during my “rise” through sapphire because of the safety nets of not dropping tiers and how a 7 game win streak was what finally catapulted me into ruby.

Now that I can lose tiers I’m hovering at upper ruby 1/lower ruby 2. Do I actually deserve to be here, or should I actually be lower than where I’m playing? Again, it’s hard to tell because I see a lot of other ruby player doing things that I would expect amber (even emerald) players would do.

I think despite me being at the highest rank I’ve ever been in three season that the safety nets are a bad thing and should probably be looked at.

Thoughts?

Starbreaker.6507:

I think despite me being at the highest rank I’ve ever been in three season that the safety nets are a bad thing and should probably be looked at.

Thoughts?

People have been asking for division/Tier safety nets to be removed for some time.

Problem is i doubt ANET will change that till after S4 otherwise people will complain that they can’t get the division crossing achievements (unless ANET removes that requirement)

Vicky.4563:

If the design is inherently flawed, nothing you tweak about matchmaking will fix the core problem.

Anet needs to unlink rewards from progression up the ladder, and instead reward players for just participating. That way they can then get rid of the safety barriers so matchmaking can self regulate.

Remove the cross X divisions in season achievements, and change it to more things like “Win X matches on Y map”. Or some other achievement that doesn’t require progression.

Change the way PvP tickets are rewarded so they come from completing achievements or they’re earned by winning each game. So IDK, every 2 games won rewards 1 ticket? Completing the achievement rewards more tickets? Something like that.

Bam. Problem solved. PvErs will still need to play ranked to get the backpiece, but they aren’t forced to progress upwards. They still need to win, but most of the rage from “I’m stick in this division!” should be eliminated because they have no need to move beyond the division they’re supposed to be in.

As long as they win consistently, they will get the rewards.

And then people who actually care about leagues being competitive can still get their badges and titles.

Right now, matchmaking will NEVER be perfect because rewards are locked behind progression. That means every PvE player is out there trying to circumvent matchmaking in order to progress in the leagues. They did this by amber shopping, grinding ridiculous amount of games, anything that lets them move upwards beyond where they’re supposed to be. And safety locks makes it worse so matchmaking can never accurately gauge.

Remove the incentive for them to progress and just simply reward for playing the game /winning. Ideally that means players will settle into one range at a 50/50 win rate and will only move upwards if they improve. And accordingly will drop down if they do poorly.

We have a winner!!!!

To bad we still have another season this year to suffer before they can change it for next years pvp leagues. Hopefully they learned this lesson… but I doubt it.

Spartacus.3192:

Starbreaker.6507:

I think despite me being at the highest rank I’ve ever been in three season that the safety nets are a bad thing and should probably be looked at.

Thoughts?

People have been asking for division/Tier safety nets to be removed for some time.

Problem is i doubt ANET will change that till after S4 otherwise people will complain that they can’t get the division crossing achievements (unless ANET removes that requirement)

I agree that it’s highly unlikely they’ll get rid of it anytime soon.

Speaking as someone who probably benefited from it, this is by far the least fun season I’ve played despite my “gains” .

gloflop.3510:

I would like to show how a pvp-match for me normally looks like:
1) I queue and after ~3 min. the queue pops up (at night it takes longer)
2) I wait 1 min. until the game starts
3) After 3 min. of the match, I realize that it will be an easy win/horrible loss
4) After 8 min. (roughly) my prediction after 3 min. becomes true
5) the game is over and I can queue again!

I counted Celine’s matches (previous post). In 4 (out of 10) the losing team had more than 350 points. In my own history, it is just 1 (out of 10). I dont mind if I cannot reach legendary. I dont mind losing a game. I mind if I queue 3 min. + 1 min. waiting only to get beaten up/have nobody to fight against. Why should I play PvP then? The real problem for me in terms of matchmaking are such blow-out matches.

I agree with you. I’m having the same experience myself.

Vicky.4563:

If the design is inherently flawed, nothing you tweak about matchmaking will fix the core problem.

Anet needs to unlink rewards from progression up the ladder, and instead reward players for just participating. That way they can then get rid of the safety barriers so matchmaking can self regulate.

Remove the cross X divisions in season achievements, and change it to more things like “Win X matches on Y map”. Or some other achievement that doesn’t require progression.

Change the way PvP tickets are rewarded so they come from completing achievements or they’re earned by winning each game. So IDK, every 2 games won rewards 1 ticket? Completing the achievement rewards more tickets? Something like that.

Bam. Problem solved. PvErs will still need to play ranked to get the backpiece, but they aren’t forced to progress upwards. They still need to win, but most of the rage from “I’m stick in this division!” should be eliminated because they have no need to move beyond the division they’re supposed to be in.

As long as they win consistently, they will get the rewards.

And then people who actually care about leagues being competitive can still get their badges and titles.

Right now, matchmaking will NEVER be perfect because rewards are locked behind progression. That means every PvE player is out there trying to circumvent matchmaking in order to progress in the leagues. They did this by amber shopping, grinding ridiculous amount of games, anything that lets them move upwards beyond where they’re supposed to be. And safety locks makes it worse so matchmaking can never accurately gauge.

Remove the incentive for them to progress and just simply reward for playing the game /winning. Ideally that means players will settle into one range at a 50/50 win rate and will only move upwards if they improve. And accordingly will drop down if they do poorly.

+1 great idea.

Starbreaker.6507:

Spartacus.3192:

Starbreaker.6507:

I think despite me being at the highest rank I’ve ever been in three season that the safety nets are a bad thing and should probably be looked at.

Thoughts?

People have been asking for division/Tier safety nets to be removed for some time.

Problem is i doubt ANET will change that till after S4 otherwise people will complain that they can’t get the division crossing achievements (unless ANET removes that requirement)

I agree that it’s highly unlikely they’ll get rid of it anytime soon.

Speaking as someone who probably benefited from it, this is by far the least fun season I’ve played despite my “gains” .

Agree and disagree here.

There has to be a balance – why should someone’s hard work, patience, etc. be ruined by bad luck, bad team composition, and other “beyond a player’s control” factors? Suffice to say, in the current state of this game’s PvP, if I patiently grind out Emerald to Sapphire to Ruby….and then end up on some wild losing streak, why must I pay the price and/or risk the chance of all my hard work being systematically erased by a team que-ing system that so many of us have already labeled broken, in-need-of-repair, or scrapped and the team making system over-hauled and completely redesigned?

If I make it to Sapphire, then I earned it. I keep it.

If you make it to Ruby, then you’ve earned it. You keep it.

I do not subscribe to the idea that a player should lose their division, or tier status within that division. Pipes yes. But once you earn those pipes and move into the next tier status of that division, your progress is safe.

Remember, Guild Wars 2 is supposed to be fun, exciting, and most importantly – rewarding for playing it. The issue here is that we have extreme PvPers vs. Casual PvPers vs. PvE-ers (who are just there because they’ve been “forced” into for item “xyz”).

To address this, create un-ranked and ranked RANDOM and TEAM match options available to the player, so they can play at their level of desire or necessity. If I’m a solo, lone wolf player ( and I am), then ranked RANDOM is for me. If you are a guild, real friends, game-made-friends role w/ a team that’s organized and has a strategy in mind, then TEAM match-ups are for you. Hard-core gets their nitch (team vs. team), casual gets their own (random pug vs random pug!), and PvE-ers get their spot w/ Un-ranked match play and/or RANDOM match up play.

Syric.1936:

If I make it to Sapphire, then I earned it. I keep it.

If you make it to Ruby, then you’ve earned it. You keep it.

No, you don’t. You defend it. If you can’t defend it successfully, you don’t deserve to keep it.

It’s supposed to be a ranked league season, not a reward track. Champions have to defend their titles all the time. They can’t just rest on their laurels for the rest of their lives. It’s a constant race and drive to stay on top of your game and improve yourself.

Go play unranked or hot join if you can’t handle it.

Under that new system, you wouldn’t need to move upwards in league anyways to get your wings, so ranks wouldn’t matter for you anyways.

The primary purpose of a match making system is to ensure that games are competitive (also know as fun) for everyone. There is no doubt that the match making system is flawed. It is hard to pin point where, but there is a serious issue when the majority of the games end-up in a blow-out win/lose.

Is it good matchmaking? 4 premades vs 3 randoms and 2 premades? Yeah totally fine!

Guild team vs randoms? Why not?… Perfect matchmaking dude! We have rights to complai, cos such MM is kitten!

Vicky.4563:

Syric.1936:

If I make it to Sapphire, then I earned it. I keep it.

If you make it to Ruby, then you’ve earned it. You keep it.

No, you don’t. You defend it. If you can’t defend it successfully, you don’t deserve to keep it.

It’s supposed to be a ranked league season, not a reward track. Champions have to defend their titles all the time. They can’t just rest on their laurels for the rest of their lives. It’s a constant race and drive to stay on top of your game and improve yourself.

Go play unranked or hot join if you can’t handle it.

Under that new system, you wouldn’t need to move upwards in league anyways to get your wings, so ranks wouldn’t matter for you anyways.

Vicky, why so much hostility in your post? Let’s not take what I’m saying out of context – if you earn it, you deserve it. I never stated it was a “reward track.” You did, and we both know the difference.

Again, this game is supposed to be fun to play – not hardcore play 12hrs+ a day or go uninstall it you noob kitten. Whether I win or lose, I want the “best” opportunity for a “fair” match. Not PUG meets PREMADE. But, I digress.

I disagree with you. Defend it? I defend it hours upon hours, and days upon days, at a time. Why? Cause the system, as is, is broken, and time and time again I’m stuck w/ new players, low rated players, and/or PVE-ers who could give 2-cents less in the end. There are several other factors, but the point remains that I shouldn’t have to give back ALL my effort, time, and sweat due to some run of bad luck or other players not playing at the same skill level as me.

As for what happens when you remove all those factors? I’m fine w/ losing pipes. It keeps things in check. GW2 PvP Dev team already saw to increasing the necessary tiers required to cross into the next Division – making it harder and harder for a casual and/or PvE-er to obtain the coveted “Legendary” status.

Ultimately, what I’m hearing is it sounds like some of the 1% sitting on top of the Ranking just don’t want their efforts diminished by the “casual” player doing the unthinkable – joining in their stature. Is this another social class in the making within a game?

Ultimately, no one cares but you and your own ego. Furthermore, if anyone should defend themselves and all their glory, then let it be those that have hit Legendary. Let them face the chance of losing their coveted title if a new gladiator comes along to knock them off their “throne.”

Chaith.8256:

Season3 seems to have introduced this phenomenon where non-high tier players are chosen at random (means unknown to me,) and they experience huge win streaks, crushing victories, and generally no opposition while they roll an entire division in a sitting.

In my personal experience, highly skilled veteran players seem to generally always be stacked and face very little opposition, but now, I’m noticing even players that have known past struggles in the Leagues get on massive streaks of facing enemies that provide little resistance.

Every player who had struggled in the past and suddenly is on a huge tear, “I love S3!” For the rest of average and what I can only imagine as bottom half of the playerbase, “Whelp, this game has taken a huge crap on me.”

Nobody likes this matchmaker except the people who are suddenly winning a 75% of their matches and feel like they’re being rewarded for getting good’.

The above-average to the highly-skilled veterans are falling asleep in queues, and in many matches – crushing their opponents was more fun when they had to sweat for it.

For every player on a huge win streak, there are an equal amount of lose streaks.

Seriously, bring back evenly matched team MMR aka S1. There were improvements that could have been made to it, which I could detail, but the changes made since S1 are horrendous for the casual and veteran experience.

Great post, too bad we’re stuck with this matchmaking for an entire season.

Nighthawk.4687:

If you’re complaining about pugs vs premades, fighting other legendaries, or classes being OP,

You read it here folks, if you discover things wrong in life, don’t say anything.

Just like all those pesky wars and mass murderers in the world. Please, just stop drawing attention and trying to resolve these issues you ridiculous scrub. XD

~Nighthawk.

Syric.1936:

Vicky, why so much hostility in your post? Let’s not take what I’m saying out of context – if you earn it, you deserve it. I never stated it was a “reward track.” You did, and we both know the difference.

A system that doesn’t penalize losses after a certain point is essentially a reward track.

Syric.1936:

Again, this game is supposed to be fun to play – not hardcore play 12hrs+ a day or go uninstall it you noob kitten. Whether I win or lose, I want the “best” opportunity for a “fair” match. Not PUG meets PREMADE. But, I digress.

You don’t need a hardcore play 12hrs a day whatever. The best opportunity for fair matches is when people can drop divisions instead of being artificially propped up by a system that doesn’t allow for losses in tiers.

Pugs vs premades are not an issue. Anet metrics themselves state that very few matches are loss to full pugs against full premades. You only remember those matches more because you’re trying to seek an excuse to why you loss. It’s all in your head.

Syric.1936:

I disagree with you. Defend it? I defend it hours upon hours, and days upon days, at a time. Why? Cause the system, as is, is broken, and time and time again I’m stuck w/ new players, low rated players, and/or PVE-ers who could give 2-cents less in the end. There are several other factors, but the point remains that I shouldn’t have to give back ALL my effort, time, and sweat due to some run of bad luck or other players not playing at the same skill level as me.

That’s great! We agree! The system is broken! Because no tier regression!

Those PvErs who wouldn’t give 2 cents, those low rated players, those AFK players would drop down to a lower division over time. If only we could allow tier regression. Meanwhile players who play to win would rise ahead.

Syric.1936:

As for what happens when you remove all those factors? I’m fine w/ losing pipes. It keeps things in check. GW2 PvP Dev team already saw to increasing the necessary tiers required to cross into the next Division – making it harder and harder for a casual and/or PvE-er to obtain the coveted “Legendary” status.

What? It’s pathetically easy for anyone to get the legendary status. Make it harder.

Syric.1936:

Ultimately, what I’m hearing is it sounds like some of the 1% sitting on top of the Ranking just don’t want their efforts diminished by the “casual” player doing the unthinkable – joining in their stature. Is this another social class in the making within a game?

Well, considering it IS a league and ladder, you do know what leagues and ladders mean right? You’re supposed to be divided.

Syric.1936:

Ultimately, no one cares but you and your own ego. Furthermore, if anyone should defend themselves and all their glory, then let it be those that have hit Legendary. Let them face the chance of losing their coveted title if a new gladiator comes along to knock them off their “throne.”

You sound like you have something against players who want to play a competitive game mode the way it was intended. Each player should be rated and judged within each division. Not just legendary. Currently, there is almost no difference between each division. Amber, Emerald and Sapphire are pretty much one extended division. Ruby through Legendary and pretty much the same too.

Remove the division handicaps. Let players disperse naturally in a curve instead of propping them up. Then we’ll see how matchmaking pans out from there.

Until you remove all these artificial barriers, you will never be able to create a functional matchmaking system.

Vicky.4563:

If the design is inherently flawed, nothing you tweak about matchmaking will fix the core problem.

Anet needs to unlink rewards from progression up the ladder, and instead reward players for just participating. That way they can then get rid of the safety barriers so matchmaking can self regulate.

Remove the cross X divisions in season achievements, and change it to more things like “Win X matches on Y map”. Or some other achievement that doesn’t require progression.

Change the way PvP tickets are rewarded so they come from completing achievements or they’re earned by winning each game. So IDK, every 2 games won rewards 1 ticket? Completing the achievement rewards more tickets? Something like that.

Bam. Problem solved. PvErs will still need to play ranked to get the backpiece, but they aren’t forced to progress upwards. They still need to win, but most of the rage from “I’m stick in this division!” should be eliminated because they have no need to move beyond the division they’re supposed to be in.

As long as they win consistently, they will get the rewards.

And then people who actually care about leagues being competitive can still get their badges and titles.

Right now, matchmaking will NEVER be perfect because rewards are locked behind progression. That means every PvE player is out there trying to circumvent matchmaking in order to progress in the leagues. They did this by amber shopping, grinding ridiculous amount of games, anything that lets them move upwards beyond where they’re supposed to be. And safety locks makes it worse so matchmaking can never accurately gauge.

Remove the incentive for them to progress and just simply reward for playing the game /winning. Ideally that means players will settle into one range at a 50/50 win rate and will only move upwards if they improve. And accordingly will drop down if they do poorly.

Sounds like great ideas to me, all divisions will then be win a match get a pip, lose a match lose a pip. Can lose tiers and divisions all the way back to 0 pips in Amber. So many problems solved and no need to reset divisions between leagues anymore (some kind of decay for prolonged inactivity would be a good idea).

Actually, if they do as you propose then there no reason not to separate the division system from the league altogether and make it a permanent feature.

Heh you guys amuse me with your SHILLING of the league system! Just because us players hate the system DOES NOT mean we’re “entitled” or “uncompetitive”! If anything YOU are the entitled ones for shilling for it thanks to the luck-based matchmaking and pip system for skyrocketing players to legendary.

For the record, I think the leagues should be destroyed. No matter how you tweak it, remove division barriers/change matchmaking, I’ve realized that YOU CAN’T FIX IT. The way it was designed and made just doesn’t work. Pip progression just doesn’t work.

Pifil.5193:

Sounds like great ideas to me, all divisions will then be win a match get a pip, lose a match lose a pip. Can lose tiers and divisions all the way back to 0 pips in Amber. So many problems solved and no need to reset divisions between leagues anymore (some kind of decay for prolonged inactivity would be a good idea).

Actually, if they do as you propose then there no reason not to separate the division system from the league altogether and make it a permanent feature.

They can also steal from LoL and make it so you have some small barrier before dropping division. If you lose 3 matches in a row on your last pip, then you drop down a division. That’s a pretty generous safety net.

And implement a decay system for Legendary and Diamond. Ruby probably isn’t considered competitive enough so that you need a decay for that.

While they’re at it, they can also bring back the public leaderboards instead of that lame legendary leaderboard that you can’t even browse and view games/win rates on.

Other than that I’m trying to think of ways you could abuse it. I suppose if I were a scumbag PvE player who only wants the shinies, they might try to do match manipulation like Red Resign day.

Stomping through on a premade wouldn’t be worth it, because ideally as they win and move up, they’ll eventually hit a skill wall where they’ll stalemate out again at 50/50. And if the primary goal is to get the shiny, then they’ll want to play and win as many games as possible, you might as well solo queue for faster queue times.

And MMR tanking wouldn’t be a thing since there’s no safety net.

The biggest downside would be that it’d be a horrid grind. But aren’t all legendaries grinds anyways?

Vicky.4563:

Syric.1936:

Vicky, why so much hostility in your post? Let’s not take what I’m saying out of context – if you earn it, you deserve it. I never stated it was a “reward track.” You did, and we both know the difference.

A system that doesn’t penalize losses after a certain point is essentially a reward track.

Syric.1936:

Again, this game is supposed to be fun to play – not hardcore play 12hrs+ a day or go uninstall it you noob kitten. Whether I win or lose, I want the “best” opportunity for a “fair” match. Not PUG meets PREMADE. But, I digress.

You don’t need a hardcore play 12hrs a day whatever. The best opportunity for fair matches is when people can drop divisions instead of being artificially propped up by a system that doesn’t allow for losses in tiers.

Pugs vs premades are not an issue. Anet metrics themselves state that very few matches are loss to full pugs against full premades. You only remember those matches more because you’re trying to seek an excuse to why you loss. It’s all in your head.

Syric.1936:

I disagree with you. Defend it? I defend it hours upon hours, and days upon days, at a time. Why? Cause the system, as is, is broken, and time and time again I’m stuck w/ new players, low rated players, and/or PVE-ers who could give 2-cents less in the end. There are several other factors, but the point remains that I shouldn’t have to give back ALL my effort, time, and sweat due to some run of bad luck or other players not playing at the same skill level as me.

That’s great! We agree! The system is broken! Because no tier regression!

Those PvErs who wouldn’t give 2 cents, those low rated players, those AFK players would drop down to a lower division over time. If only we could allow tier regression. Meanwhile players who play to win would rise ahead.

Syric.1936:

As for what happens when you remove all those factors? I’m fine w/ losing pipes. It keeps things in check. GW2 PvP Dev team already saw to increasing the necessary tiers required to cross into the next Division – making it harder and harder for a casual and/or PvE-er to obtain the coveted “Legendary” status.

What? It’s pathetically easy for anyone to get the legendary status. Make it harder.

Syric.1936:

Ultimately, what I’m hearing is it sounds like some of the 1% sitting on top of the Ranking just don’t want their efforts diminished by the “casual” player doing the unthinkable – joining in their stature. Is this another social class in the making within a game?

Well, considering it IS a league and ladder, you do know what leagues and ladders mean right? You’re supposed to be divided.

Syric.1936:

Ultimately, no one cares but you and your own ego. Furthermore, if anyone should defend themselves and all their glory, then let it be those that have hit Legendary. Let them face the chance of losing their coveted title if a new gladiator comes along to knock them off their “throne.”

You sound like you have something against players who want to play a competitive game mode the way it was intended. Each player should be rated and judged within each division. Not just legendary. Currently, there is almost no difference between each division. Amber, Emerald and Sapphire are pretty much one extended division. Ruby through Legendary and pretty much the same too.

Remove the division handicaps. Let players disperse naturally in a curve instead of propping them up. Then we’ll see how matchmaking pans out from there.

Until you remove all these artificial barriers, you will never be able to create a functional matchmaking system.

I thought of the division loss idea before, then I reconsidered. While the idea itself is good, I think division loss would work better in a LEADERBOARD system since wins/losses are calculated and NOT PIPS.

YOU CANNOT FIX THIS SYSTEM.

Vicky.4563:

A system that doesn’t penalize losses after a certain point is essentially a reward track.

I didn’t say that – again, my words taken out of context. I stated that the loss of pipes, which in turn keeps you locked down within a division, is a loss – why are you ignoring this fact? Example: last two seasons, I made Ruby no problem, and I was happy with that. This season, I started late. Win, loss, win, loss, win win win, loss, and the roller coaster ride just keeps going and going and….So, don’t preach there is no penalty for losing – I’m feeling it daily as I grind up toward my goals, investing hours on my day off, etc. I’m “making the sacrifice” to join the “upper echelon,” and yet somehow you want to increase the difficulty that already exists for us? I do not agree with your logic.

Vicky.4563:

You don’t need a hardcore play 12hrs a day whatever. The best opportunity for fair matches is when people can drop divisions instead of being artificially propped up by a system that doesn’t allow for losses in tiers.

Pugs vs premades are not an issue. Anet metrics themselves state that very few matches are loss to full pugs against full premades. You only remember those matches more because you’re trying to seek an excuse to why you loss. It’s all in your head.

I have more experience recalling my matches than you – were you in every single match I’ve ever played – no. Are we friends that hash out our matches on a daily/weekly basis – no. You’re speaking out of turn here. Our experiences are not the same, and it’s disappointing you’d take the low road here. An “excuse.” “All in my head?” My opinions are based off my experiences, and after 20+ years playing PvP I know the difference between pre-made vs. pug. I’m going to stop here on this point.

Vicky.4563:

That’s great! We agree! The system is broken! Because no tier regression!

Those PvErs who wouldn’t give 2 cents, those low rated players, those AFK players would drop down to a lower division over time. If only we could allow tier regression. Meanwhile players who play to win would rise ahead.

Agree? I beg to differ, but let’s start our own post if we’re going to hash things out on the finer points of the whys and why nots vs deviate further from the OP.

Vicky.4563:

What? It’s pathetically easy for anyone to get the legendary status. Make it harder.

That is a under-statement that’s either forged in ignorance, pride, or ego. Either one is an insulting comment that undermines the hard work, effort, and time players have put into achieving that lofty status. You do not get to belittle their work w/ your own inability to see the challenge there is right now reaching for that top tier status within the league.

Vicky.4563:

Well, considering it IS a league and ladder, you do know what leagues and ladders mean right? You’re supposed to be divided.

Yep.

Vicky.4563:

You sound like you have something against players who want to play a competitive game mode the way it was intended. Each player should be rated and judged within each division. Not just legendary. Currently, there is almost no difference between each division. Amber, Emerald and Sapphire are pretty much one extended division. Ruby through Legendary and pretty much the same too.

Remove the division handicaps. Let players disperse naturally in a curve instead of propping them up. Then we’ll see how matchmaking pans out from there.

Until you remove all these artificial barriers, you will never be able to create a functional matchmaking system.

On the contrary, I’m all for competitive play. Where I have issues with the current system for GW2 PvP is in its lack to diversify the PUGs from the PRE-TEAMs. It’s really that straight-forward in my book. GW1 had that right – you had seperation to those two distinctions, and incorporating that into GW2 would alleviate a lot of the current PvP disfunction and imbalances we’re left with – minus any current class OP meta’s, but that’s never going to change as they tweek tweek and tweek.

At the start of the week, I was 2 games from legendary. Now I’m back in Diamond T4. I am having so much fun.

Ha.

Syric.1936:

On the contrary, I’m all for competitive play. Where I have issues with the current system for GW2 PvP is in its lack to diversify the PUGs from the PRE-TEAMs. It’s really that straight-forward in my book. GW1 had that right – you had seperation to those two distinctions, and incorporating that into GW2 would alleviate a lot of the current PvP disfunction and imbalances we’re left with – minus any current class OP meta’s, but that’s never going to change as they tweek tweek and tweek.

If you want to change something, you must first understand why it exists in the first place?

We had team and solo queue before. Why did Anet combine the two? Ponder on that.

And assuming we do fully separate the queues, and division locks still exist, there would be 0 difference between those leagues and now. Why? Because a solo player could play all the way up to Legendary/Diamond/Ruby/etc, and the proceed to lose the next 10000000000 matches and still be in their respective leagues.

If that’s not broken, what is?

And really. Legendary is a joke. There is zero prestige in getting it. I’m not sure why you find it so difficult to understand that.