Guild Wars 2

Who would you rather have on your team?

Toxic good player. I just turn off chat and I can’t tell the difference

Toxic good player simply because you can just ignore them and you’ll have a better game than with the nice bad player.

I’d much rather the toxic good player. There’s nothing you can do about a bottom feeder, but you can ignore the toxic player and still have him do his job.

If by ‘nice’ you mean listens to advice and is willing to learn then by definition the ‘bad. nice player’ is unlikely to remain bad for too long’ whereas the ’toxic, good player is going to be an idiot for the rest of his life and is someone I can live without playing with.

Also there is a pretty good chance that the ‘Toxic, good player’ will AFK if there is some small thing he dislikes, so he’ll be less useful then the ‘bad’ player in any event.

Well it depends on how you define it but to be a good player being able to properly communicate is rather necessary. Therefore can a toxic player be “good”? Aren’t almost all toxic players bad?

Never seen a toxic good player.

Same. Never seen a good player who’s toxic, only bad ones.

At work you sometimes have a guy who is amazing at his job but is an kitten. Normally though as long as you leave him alone, he’ll leave you alone, and everyone gets to go home. Kinda the same here sorta….. If he does his role in the match, and I do mine we don’t have issues. Nothing to say to each other. We win the match, then go our own seperate ways. If he’s spouting nonsense, meh that’s his deal not mine. I probably tell him to kitten or get his head out of his kitten we’re winning anyway or something. But either way as long as he does good won’t be issues.

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

I mean, if you’re talking about comparing a mouthbreathing raging pro league tier player that has way too short of a fuse and way too loose with the profanities or the nice skill clicking soccer mom of 3 kids that just plays GW2 to wind down from a busy day, I’ll take the mouthbreather all day as a teammate.

Darknicrofia.2604:

I mean, if you’re talking about comparing a mouthbreathing raging pro league tier player that has way too short of a fuse and way too loose with the profanities or the nice skill clicking soccer mom of 3 kids that just plays GW2 to wind down from a busy day, I’ll take the mouthbreather all day as a teammate.

tyvm

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

Well, you’re not working with this guy, neither do you have to interact with him if you so choose. Not to mention it’s usually a one time thing.

Ruru.1302:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

Well, you’re not working with this guy, neither do you have to interact with him if you so choose. Not to mention it’s usually a one time thing.

How we went from talking about a sparsely populated “esport” to managerial preferences is astounding.

Ruru.1302:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

Well, you’re not working with this guy, neither do you have to interact with him if you so choose. Not to mention it’s usually a one time thing.

Why are you replying with this to me? My response was to the prior post about a “kitten” employee who is “amazing at his job.”

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

Truth. A toxic player might be “good” individually, but the toxicity they bring to the table can impact how the rest of the team plays. All s/he has to do is aggravate one teammate and the match might go from being a steep climb to unwinnable. You might ignore said person, but you can bet some of your teammates aren’t. Toxic people degrade the entire pvp atmosphere, not just one match.

Also, if the “bad” player is in my MMR range, I’m probably just as bad. If s/he is substantially underperforming, it’s entirely likely s/he is simply having a bad match for any number of understandable reasons; we all do. Maybe s/he just had a particularly toxic person in their last match and is irritated (see how that comes around?). A match or two later, they might come back and hit one outta the park. And if they are simply worse than you, their MMR will adjust; the system will fix itself and the pvp environment remains largely unaffected.

Toxic people on the other hand, tend to carry their behavior from one game to the next regardless of where the system puts them. Also, they just offend my sensibilities. +1 for the “bad but nice” player, whatever that may mean.

I’d take a highly skilled salt-lord over a bad carebear. Never won a match with the power of friendship.

A bad player is something you can carry. Just keep them in a place where they dont get stomped in a bad moment and you’ll be fine.
A toxic player however may bring the entire team down as soon as you face any adversity.
Thats where im going to make my point: professionality means not that you are good at what you are doing. It rather implies that you dont loose focus and perform normally under stress. It means you are so experienced or so good, that you do excactly what you have to even if everything else goes wrong.
That is quite the opposite of what a toxic player is.
So a toxic player can be a decent fighter, but they can never be a ‘good’ player by definition, since they are unable to overcome adversity in a professional way.

Toxic good player… because you don’t win games with Non toxic bad players?

This is kind of a silly question :p
#BockHim #Don’tHaveToBeFriends #it’sSoloQ #Surei’llTakeHim

It’s a false question. There is no such thing as a toxic good player. Toxic players are like toxic coworkers. They are all bad. The negative impact of their toxic behavior will most certainly outweigh any benefit they might bring to the table. Especially, in an environment where teamwork is essential.

In the workplace you can sit a toxic coworker in the corner, basement, or glovebox department, to mitigate the damage they do. In guild wars PvP, you know the matchmaker is messing with you when you get teamed with them. Beware toxicity, it is part of mankind’s lower nature, and seems to be highly esteemed nowadays, for some demented reason.

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

That’s your problem right there. The discussion isn’t about competent toxic people vs competent friendly people. It’s competent toxic vs incompetent friendly.

Pyriall.1683:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

That’s your problem right there. The discussion isn’t about competent toxic people vs competent friendly people. It’s competent toxic vs incompetent friendly.

What makes you think competent toxic is a reality? Maybe toxic is an attribute of incompetence.

Knowledge is the correct understanding of how things work in reality, while wisdom is the ability to apply that knowledge. Toxic people are misunderstood as being competent when they have a great deal of knowledge and no wisdom. What good is your knowledge when you have little capacity to apply it. Thus, knowledge without wisdom is incompetence!

Archon.6480:

Pyriall.1683:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

That’s your problem right there. The discussion isn’t about competent toxic people vs competent friendly people. It’s competent toxic vs incompetent friendly.

What makes you think competent toxic is a reality? Maybe toxic is an attribute of incompetence.

Knowledge is the correct understanding of how things work in reality, while wisdom is the ability to apply that knowledge. Toxic people are misunderstood as being competent when they have a great deal of knowledge and no wisdom. What good is your knowledge when you are incapable to apply it. Thus, knowledge without wisdom is incompetence!

Please stop and get off your esoteric soap box. The premise of the thread was “toxic, good player…” There’s a general understanding that you have read the OP before posting, so please read the original post next time.

Pyriall.1683:

Archon.6480:

Pyriall.1683:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

That’s your problem right there. The discussion isn’t about competent toxic people vs competent friendly people. It’s competent toxic vs incompetent friendly.

What makes you think competent toxic is a reality? Maybe toxic is an attribute of incompetence.

Knowledge is the correct understanding of how things work in reality, while wisdom is the ability to apply that knowledge. Toxic people are misunderstood as being competent when they have a great deal of knowledge and no wisdom. What good is your knowledge when you are incapable to apply it. Thus, knowledge without wisdom is incompetence!

Please stop and get off your esoteric soap box. The premise of the thread was “toxic, good player…” There’s a general understanding that you have read the OP before posting, so please read the original post next time.

I did read the OP, complete with misplaced commas. I am responding with the answer that the question is logically false. Why is that hard to understand? The premise is wrong.

“Which would you rather have, a brilliant fool or a kind fool?”

There is no such thing as a brilliant fool. Get it?

Archon.6480:

Pyriall.1683:

Archon.6480:

Pyriall.1683:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

That’s your problem right there. The discussion isn’t about competent toxic people vs competent friendly people. It’s competent toxic vs incompetent friendly.

What makes you think competent toxic is a reality? Maybe toxic is an attribute of incompetence.

Knowledge is the correct understanding of how things work in reality, while wisdom is the ability to apply that knowledge. Toxic people are misunderstood as being competent when they have a great deal of knowledge and no wisdom. What good is your knowledge when you are incapable to apply it. Thus, knowledge without wisdom is incompetence!

Please stop and get off your esoteric soap box. The premise of the thread was “toxic, good player…” There’s a general understanding that you have read the OP before posting, so please read the original post next time.

I did read the OP, complete with misplaced commas. I am responding with the answer that the question is logically false. Why is that hard to understand? The premise is wrong.

“Which would you rather have, a brilliant fool or a kind fool?”

There is no such thing as a brilliant fool. Get it?

No, you’re changing the premise of the discussion. It’s not a logically false statement. Toxic people are not misunderstood as being competent. We are point blank stating that you have someone with a firm understanding on how to play, but their behavior is toxic. Terrell Owens was a competent wide receiver, but a toxic teammate.

Also,

Idiot Savant

Archon.6480:

There is no such thing as a toxic good player. .

well thats bs, i think one of the most known toxic players on EU is leeto and even though i think he is an kitten i would prefer him on my team over 90% of other necros because he is good at his class

there are alot of ppl i have on my block list just because they are kittens, but i know they are good players so i dont mind when im in the same team with them

Not even close I don’t even look at chat half the time and if someone is being annoying I can block them. Give me the good player every time. Thats’ the main problem with this game too many people in ranked who’s first goal is not winning.

Archon.6480:

Pyriall.1683:

Archon.6480:

Pyriall.1683:

DaShi.1368:

Actually, studies are finding that competent toxic employees are of less value than less competent friendly employees. The mantra of not caring about their attitude as long as they can do the job is a signal of a naive manager.

That’s your problem right there. The discussion isn’t about competent toxic people vs competent friendly people. It’s competent toxic vs incompetent friendly.

What makes you think competent toxic is a reality? Maybe toxic is an attribute of incompetence.

Knowledge is the correct understanding of how things work in reality, while wisdom is the ability to apply that knowledge. Toxic people are misunderstood as being competent when they have a great deal of knowledge and no wisdom. What good is your knowledge when you are incapable to apply it. Thus, knowledge without wisdom is incompetence!

Please stop and get off your esoteric soap box. The premise of the thread was “toxic, good player…” There’s a general understanding that you have read the OP before posting, so please read the original post next time.

I did read the OP, complete with misplaced commas. I am responding with the answer that the question is logically false. Why is that hard to understand? The premise is wrong.

“Which would you rather have, a brilliant fool or a kind fool?”

There is no such thing as a brilliant fool. Get it?

so you think every pro league player is at the pinnacle of professionalism and is a shining beacon of human behavior?

or is it that you think the ones who aren’t bring no more value to a solo que game of conquest in GW2 than the skill clicking soccer mom that repeated runs into dragonhunter traps?

Sekai.2987:

Archon.6480:

There is no such thing as a toxic good player. .

well thats bs, i think one of the most known toxic players on EU is leeto and even though i think he is an kitten i would prefer him on my team over 90% of other necros because he is good at his class

there are alot of ppl i have on my block list just because they are kittens, but i know they are good players so i dont mind when im in the same team with them

Then you would prefer a toxic bad player with more skill than a kind bad player with less skill. There is nothing wrong with that.

Archon.6480:

Sekai.2987:

Archon.6480:

There is no such thing as a toxic good player. .

well thats bs, i think one of the most known toxic players on EU is leeto and even though i think he is an kitten i would prefer him on my team over 90% of other necros because he is good at his class

there are alot of ppl i have on my block list just because they are kittens, but i know they are good players so i dont mind when im in the same team with them

Then you would prefer a toxic bad player with more skill than a kind bad player with less skill. There is nothing wrong with that.

you really cant accept that you are wrong can you ? no matter what people say you twist their words in your white knight way

leeto is an kitten but he is a good player, if you call him bad ,then what kind of kittened up definition of good do you have ? and for gods sake dont you say that only carebares can be good players

just accept the fact that toxic players can be good players and that people would rather have a good toxic player then a friendly bad player in their team and there is nothing wrong with that

Sekai.2987:

just accept the fact that toxic players can be good players and that people would rather have a good toxic player then a friendly bad player in their team and there is nothing wrong with that

You mean that some people would.

Archon.6480:

There is no such thing as a toxic good player. T

False statement. Bad person != Bad player.

Archon.6480:

Beware toxicity, it is part of mankind’s lower nature, and seems to be highly esteemed nowadays, for some demented reason.

It’s not toxicity that’s becoming more esteemed, but rather competence takes precedence over toxicity.

good players can be toxic, nothing surprising.

in game, u will rather have a winning team. is not like u gonna live with the toxic player forever

Archon.6480:

It’s a false question. There is no such thing as a toxic good player. Toxic players are like toxic coworkers. They are all bad. The negative impact of their toxic behavior will most certainly outweigh any benefit they might bring to the table. Especially, in an environment where teamwork is essential.

In the workplace you can sit a toxic coworker in the corner, basement, or glovebox department, to mitigate the damage they do. In guild wars PvP, you know the matchmaker is messing with you when you get teamed with them. Beware toxicity, it is part of mankind’s lower nature, and seems to be highly esteemed nowadays, for some demented reason.

I’ll phrase it like this then.

If you could take a kittenbag that would give your team a 65% chance to win, or a kind soul that would give your team a 50% chance to win, who would you take?

I’d take the kitten every single time.

The toxic good player has a reasonable chance of going afk when they don’t like the way the match is going. Bad player>afk.

Zodryn.4216:

The toxic good player has a reasonable chance of going afk when they don’t like the way the match is going. Bad player>afk.

I often get matched up with players that are so bad at rotating, that my personal contribution to the game is nullified. In these occasions go afk, and explain my team what is going wrong.

I will do whatever I can do to win, unless winning is made impossible due to having a terrible team.

These are some examples on when I afk:
- We start with 3 thieves, I switch class, the other thieves refuse to switch and tell me to ‘try’.
- Upon wiping the enemy team at mid, our necro goes far, while our close is decapped.
- Upon wiping the enemy team at mid, the enemy player is not stomped and manages to teleport onto the node to decap it.
- While fighting 1v2, my team keeps wiping on close and even manages to get a counter 3-cap.

You can call me toxic, but it doesn’t change the outcome of a match, and players are not able to accept that.

Menzies The Heretic.3415:

You can call me toxic, but it doesn’t change the outcome of a match, and players are not able to accept that.

Yes it does. Sry but ive seen countless ‘losses’ been turned around. By my team and by the enemies team aswell.
Matches where we were loosing teamfights, where my team rotated badly, where people 2v0’ed close for whatever reason…
Ive seen games starting with a 3cap in their favour and we won. Ive seen a game that went : 300/100 for us, 1 dc: 350/450, dc coming back:500/450
Ive had a game that was won by nothing but holding close, decapping and lordrush.

There are numerous ways to turn a game around completely, but they all have one thing in common: The entire team keeps trying hard until the end.
If one player gives up, even if that players continues playing, you loose.
I know its a stereotypical thing to say but: you can not win unless you believe in winning.

And no: a toxic player can never ever be a good player.
It does not matter how strong they are, they only perform well if fighting in a perfect enviroment. As long as you are winning, they contribute, as soon as you start to loose, they dont. And contribution is much more vital if you are in a bad spot already.

Think about it this way:, lest say you have a top athlete, lets say the goalie of a sports team. Hes perfect, he can hold everything but the most perfect shots.
Now, due to a fatal mistake of the rest of the team the opposing team gets that perfect opportunity and makes a point.
For the rest of the game your goalie is either so depressed or so frustrated he cant hold another ball and hardly tries. Better yet, he keeps blaming his team because they were foolish enough to give the enemy that one shot.

If you’d just had a worse player but with a better attitude they might miss the perfect ball and anotherone later, but you can still compensate for that by making more points on your own.

Finally thats actually what you can observe ingame. Even if a toxic player does not go afk, they stop contributing. They get aggressive, rush into the fight and die, they dont ress their team because they ‘dont deserve it’.
Or for example if you have a good toxic and a bad thief, and the thief keeps messing up and never decaps far, the toxic will suddenly act irrational and start to try to do the thiefs job, leaving the thief without any option to better themselves and the team in a heavy disadvantage for fights.

All in all: As long as you are the stronger team, the toxic player will serve you better. But as soon as you gain the slightest disadvantage or face any adversity the bad player will become more and more the rational choice.

DaShi.1368:

Never seen a toxic good player.

Why? There are a lot of toxic ESL players that are both good and toxic. Toxicity does not always equal bad skill, however it might equal being angry with your teammates for losing, which is perfectly fine.

Am I a good player? Way above average.
Am I toxic? Yes.
Will I ever afk? No, I always play until the end.
Why am I toxic? Because the meta is kitten, this game mode has become kitten, the balance is kitten, the MM is kitten, the passive play is kitten, because the required level of skill has been decreased (in a game where micromanagement is not prevalent), because I want to win, not lose, because I want to have good and fun matches and not complete blowout matches.
Because I love this game, however the love has become bittersweet.

Am I toxic in other competitive games? No, it’s only in Guild Wars 2.
Will I ever stop being toxic? Unlikely, the times of bliss are over, at least for me, because it was during that time I had the most fun playing this game and I don’t expect Anet to ever make adequate changes, though there will always be hope!

Ranked=Toxic good player * turn off chat and hope for the win
Unranked=Nice player * maybe they’re new and want to learn spvp * maybe they’re terrible but will try to rez you even if they die for it.

Kind of a loaded question as is.
Being toxic, being a good player or not, usually means that person is going to either be on tilt out of this world and thus probably playing like kitten regardless, or putting their teammates on tilt and making them play like kitten.

Ideally the best situation here is having someone who is a toxic good player but isn’t letting it affect their game play on a team that is competent and confident enough in themselves to not let whatever is going on get to them.

But this rarely ever happens.

So in the situation where my team is a bunch of softies (as most of the community is, lets be honest here), I’d rather have a nice kitten tier player who is actually trying, as long as they can listen and follow directions nine times out of ten you can usually pull through a win if they 100% listen regardless of how bad at their class they are and your teammates are listening, aware, and are rotating as needed.

Having one bad player is a lot easier to work around if the rest of you are actually decent then having an entire team that is tilted and playing like kitten.

R O C.6574:

Toxic good player. I just turn off chat and I can’t tell the difference

How can a toxic player be good if he uses his time to flame teammates instead of actually playing the game?

Shylock.4653:

R O C.6574:

Toxic good player. I just turn off chat and I can’t tell the difference

How can a toxic player be good if he uses his time to flame teammates instead of actually playing the game?

Because it’s not hard to play and type while moving between points. More people can walk and chew gum at the same time than those who cannot.

I’d rather have a bad, nice player. Even if they are poor in performance at first, they are a joy to work with and can always be improved.

From my experience, it is easier to turn a bad/nice player into a good/nice player than it is to turn a good/toxic player into a good/nice player.

And ultimately, we want good/nice players in the community.

Razor.9872:

I’d rather have a bad, nice player. Even if they are poor in performance at first, they are a joy to work with and can always be improved.

From my experience, it is easier to turn a bad/nice player into a good/nice player than it is to turn a good/toxic player into a good/nice player.

And ultimately, we want good/nice players in the community.

No it’s not. The only thing it takes to turn a toxic good player into a nice good player is do what you’re supposed to do and win. You won’t hear anything from them.

Ok I’ve read through this thread and I will say you need to define toxic.

A toxic player from the start who just flames and acts like an kitten generally isn’t good. A good player who communicates pregame and throughout game, but then turns to “toxicity” due to extremely bad teammates is acceptable.

Good players are good players no matter what comes out of their mouth. I will take good players over incompetent players ANY GAME OF THE WEEK. Here’s a scenario of a thief I’ve had the pleasure/displeasure of playing with:

I’ve had this same thief on my team multiple times. Each game he/she says hello and then communicates a plan on opening and rest of game. Every game I can say with certainty that this player is doing what they are supposed to do and is a very good player.

Now I will say when our team has players who all know how to play they are basically quiet. Now when there are some serious bone headed decisions being made (aka leaving home open to a decap by a necro) this player will TELL you in no uncertain circumstances to knock it off (These messages aren’t for the faint of heart tbh). Now after every win regardless of how bad you did you get a whisper afterwards of GG and good things.

Now I had a the displeasure of being on this fella’s team when the team was full of BAD players. I mean started off the same he/she said hello, chatted a pregame plan, and then continued to talk during the match. When our team lost a team fight at mid w/in 30 seconds and ended up feeding mid 1 by 1 it started. Literally we were told to stop sucking…..after the blow out loss (I knew I made tons of mistakes and the other 3 players were especially bad) we got a personalized whisper from that player telling us to uninstall the game. LOL

Now I would still have that player on my team every game over ANY 3 of the other players in the last game. I’ve had that player yell at me for doing bone headed mistakes and literally CARRY the game to a win.

So yes give me toxic over incompetent ANY day of the week, because usually this toxic ppl speak of is competitiveness of good players.

Forgot to add I had another mesmer on my team who was nothing but toxikittenerally started off with bad mouthing the entire team etc etc etc. Needless to say he wasn’t good in the least, and we lost.

I’ve also had a player start off toxic as well, but turned out to be a great player. That player while a PIA was able to rotate and do his/her job. I’ll take them over incompetence as well.

Someone in a match recently said “who cares about winning in unranked, just have fun”. Do I even have to tell you the result?

Him and 2 other mediocre players on our team kept dying against enemy players on our close point (I think I even saw 1 reaper killing 2 of them at some point).

Meanwhile me and a guy who was half decent killed off any players who came our way. Apart from that, I was the only one on our team to decap. Lost 250/500.

Yeah, I will gladly switch nice, bad players with toxic, good players.

Pyriall.1683:

Razor.9872:

I’d rather have a bad, nice player. Even if they are poor in performance at first, they are a joy to work with and can always be improved.

From my experience, it is easier to turn a bad/nice player into a good/nice player than it is to turn a good/toxic player into a good/nice player.

And ultimately, we want good/nice players in the community.

No it’s not. The only thing it takes to turn a toxic good player into a nice good player is do what you’re supposed to do and win. You won’t hear anything from them.

Winning does not turn them into a nice player, it just makes them move on. In essence, they remain toxic, but satisfied. If losing is all it takes to “flip the switch,” then that is a very volatile player (risky to run with). Games are not about winning all the time; games are built to incorporate failure as a motivator/obstacle. In my opinion, players who can remain optimistic in the face of adversity/challenge are closer to being “optimal.” Sure, it takes time get them to reach that state, but such is the nature of delayed gratification.

Azukas.1426:

Ok I’ve read through this thread and I will say you need to define toxic.

A toxic player from the start who just flames and acts like an kitten generally isn’t good. A good player who communicates pregame and throughout game, but then turns to “toxicity” due to extremely bad teammates is acceptable.

Good players are good players no matter what comes out of their mouth. I will take good players over incompetent players ANY GAME OF THE WEEK. Here’s a scenario of a thief I’ve had the pleasure/displeasure of playing with:

I’ve had this same thief on my team multiple times. Each game he/she says hello and then communicates a plan on opening and rest of game. Every game I can say with certainty that this player is doing what they are supposed to do and is a very good player.

Now I will say when our team has players who all know how to play they are basically quiet. Now when there are some serious bone headed decisions being made (aka leaving home open to a decap by a necro) this player will TELL you in no uncertain circumstances to knock it off (These messages aren’t for the faint of heart tbh). Now after every win regardless of how bad you did you get a whisper afterwards of GG and good things.

Now I had a the displeasure of being on this fella’s team when the team was full of BAD players. I mean started off the same he/she said hello, chatted a pregame plan, and then continued to talk during the match. When our team lost a team fight at mid w/in 30 seconds and ended up feeding mid 1 by 1 it started. Literally we were told to stop sucking…..after the blow out loss (I knew I made tons of mistakes and the other 3 players were especially bad) we got a personalized whisper from that player telling us to uninstall the game. LOL

Now I would still have that player on my team every game over ANY 3 of the other players in the last game. I’ve had that player yell at me for doing bone headed mistakes and literally CARRY the game to a win.

So yes give me toxic over incompetent ANY day of the week, because usually this toxic ppl speak of is competitiveness of good players.

<edit>

Forgot to add I had another mesmer on my team who was nothing but toxikittenerally started off with bad mouthing the entire team etc etc etc. Needless to say he wasn’t good in the least, and we lost.

I’ve also had a player start off toxic as well, but turned out to be a great player. That player while a PIA was able to rotate and do his/her job. I’ll take them over incompetence as well.

I agree that the technicalities of “toxic” and “bad/good” should be clearly defined before we move forward discussing this.

For me, toxic means quick to anger, communicating in a negative/demeaning/unconstructive fashion, and incapable of self-adjustment.

As for bad/good, I am unsure whether being “bad” means just being unknowledgeful and/or slow to react, or if it means being incapable of improvement or taking advice.

Razor.9872:

Pyriall.1683:

Razor.9872:

I’d rather have a bad, nice player. Even if they are poor in performance at first, they are a joy to work with and can always be improved.

From my experience, it is easier to turn a bad/nice player into a good/nice player than it is to turn a good/toxic player into a good/nice player.

And ultimately, we want good/nice players in the community.

No it’s not. The only thing it takes to turn a toxic good player into a nice good player is do what you’re supposed to do and win. You won’t hear anything from them.

Winning does not turn them into a nice player, it just makes them move on. In essence, they remain toxic, but satisfied. If losing is all it takes to “flip the switch,” then that is a very volatile player (risky to run with). Games are not about winning all the time; games are built to incorporate failure as a motivator/obstacle. In my opinion, players who can remain optimistic in the face of adversity/challenge are closer to being “optimal.” Sure, it takes time get them to reach that state, but such is the nature of delayed gratification.

Losing because you get paired with players who can’t properly rotate or not die in 3 seconds 1v1 isn’t a motivator/obstacle. It’s a kittening road block you can’t avoid.

Azukas.1426:

Razor.9872:

Pyriall.1683:

Razor.9872:

I’d rather have a bad, nice player. Even if they are poor in performance at first, they are a joy to work with and can always be improved.

From my experience, it is easier to turn a bad/nice player into a good/nice player than it is to turn a good/toxic player into a good/nice player.

And ultimately, we want good/nice players in the community.

No it’s not. The only thing it takes to turn a toxic good player into a nice good player is do what you’re supposed to do and win. You won’t hear anything from them.

Winning does not turn them into a nice player, it just makes them move on. In essence, they remain toxic, but satisfied. If losing is all it takes to “flip the switch,” then that is a very volatile player (risky to run with). Games are not about winning all the time; games are built to incorporate failure as a motivator/obstacle. In my opinion, players who can remain optimistic in the face of adversity/challenge are closer to being “optimal.” Sure, it takes time get them to reach that state, but such is the nature of delayed gratification.

Losing because you get paired with players who can’t properly rotate or not die in 3 seconds 1v1 isn’t a motivator/obstacle. It’s a kittening road block you can’t avoid.

You miss-interpreted me. I did not say being paired with “bad” players was a motivator for you. Rather, I was trying to express the position of the need-to-improve player as having their current ability to be improvable. From their perspective, having the potential to be better is their motivator/obstacle.

Sure, you are bound to be matched with “bad” players. Statistically it is improbable one would not. But it is how you deal with it that defines this community. In another player’s eyes, if they saw you as “noobish” or playing “poorly,” would you rather have them degrade you, rage-quit, and/or act negatively? Or, would you rather they suggest what you could do to improve and explain why doing so is an improvement. This is a matter of relativity and understanding. It is about being the player you would like the game’s community to be as well.